Petra Hůlová: 1968 in 2018

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05/22/2018 Added

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Patricia A. Simpson, Chair of the Department of Modern Languages and Literatures, introduces award-winning author, Petra Hůlová and her talk, "1968 in 2018," for Prague Spring 50. Thursday, April 5, 2018 - 4:00 - 5:15 pm https://praguespring50.unl.edu/welcome

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[99:59:59.999]Good afternoon everybody and welcome to our last session of the afternoon, and I just wanted to remind us all of the concert this evening
[99:59:59.999]It is um Martin Kratochvil and Tony Ackerman at the Sheldon Museum in the Great Hall at 7:30 this evening
[99:59:59.999]We have come together to recuperate some of that brief optimism from 1968
[99:59:59.999]To commemorate and to celebrate the courage and creativity of a generation of political and cultural activists who lived in
[99:59:59.999]Its wake and that
[99:59:59.999]energy culminated in the Velvet Revolution as
[99:59:59.999]We do so let us not lose sight of the hard realities that change can bring
[99:59:59.999]revolutions and fallen walls can have unintended consequences
[99:59:59.999]For example in a 2004 study sponsored by the United Nations a group of social scientists
[99:59:59.999]highlighted the rise in crime drug use and especially prostitution in the Czech Republic I quote from that study a
[99:59:59.999]radical change took place in the 1990s went along with the transformation of the social situation and a liberation liberalization of laws it
[99:59:59.999]Became possible to travel abroad a free market economy was introduced and the social welfare system was
[99:59:59.999]reduced end of the quotation
[99:59:59.999]Petra Hulova our guest this afternoon has her hand on the pulse of these changes
[99:59:59.999]Born in Prague in 1979. She's the author of three plays and about eight critically acclaimed novels
[99:59:59.999]she studied language culture and anthropology and Prague and beyond and
[99:59:59.999]She was a Fulbright Scholar in the United States for a year
[99:59:59.999]people say of her that she became a writer in Mongolia when she was 23 she published her first novel and
[99:59:59.999]She was described as the rising star of a new generation of Czech writers
[99:59:59.999]She has her star has continued to rise
[99:59:59.999]Hulova takes us beyond borders and into the human experience
[99:59:59.999]Her 2002 novel all this belongs to me. Which was published in a fine English translation in 2009
[99:59:59.999]for example narrates the lives of three generations of women in a Mongolian family fraught with
[99:59:59.999]Secrets and betrayals, and she just opposes life on the steppe with urban human blights of addiction and prostitution
[99:59:59.999]Hulova’s 2006 novel which has just become available in English with the title three plastic rooms is
[99:59:59.999]narrated from the perspective of a Czech prostitute who lives and works in
[99:59:59.999]plastic for plastic in the form of her credit card and
[99:59:59.999]At the edge of our awareness of the synthetics of her existence we as readers may discover our own as well
[99:59:59.999]the nameless narrator seeks though rarely finds, and I quote from the fine translation by Alec sucker a bit of
[99:59:59.999]humanity
[99:59:59.999]The novel won the English pen award and it is available as is
[99:59:59.999]Her other novel translated to English all this belongs to me outside at the book display and Petra has kindly agreed
[99:59:59.999]To do a book signing after our conversation today
[99:59:59.999]Now the English translation of all this belongs to me appeared with Northwestern University Press in the very prestigious series
[99:59:59.999]writings from an unbound Europe
[99:59:59.999]The mission of this series is to be quote the most comprehensive series of literature and translation from the formerly
[99:59:59.999]communist countries of Eastern Europe and
[99:59:59.999]In the United States and in the West more generally we can detect
[99:59:59.999]Perhaps a nostalgia for a Cold War worldview a desire to declare repeatedly capitalism's victory over
[99:59:59.999]communism
[99:59:59.999]perhaps a nostalgia for the moral clarity of
[99:59:59.999]radical critiques against oppression
[99:59:59.999]Halawa complicates that worldview she invites us into the interstitial spaces between the global and the local
[99:59:59.999]into the cramped realms of ambivalence and moral ambiguity
[99:59:59.999]In doing so she brings an important critical voice to a conversation more generally and to this conversation in particular
[99:59:59.999]about cultural legacies and political heritage
[99:59:59.999]after the fall of the Iron Curtain
[99:59:59.999]she takes us behind the curtain and
[99:59:59.999]Often out of our comfort zones, so please join me in welcoming Petra who lava to Lincoln and to the podium
[99:59:59.999]Thank you very very much good afternoon
[99:59:59.999]Each August
[99:59:59.999]around the date of Russian invasion
[99:59:59.999]Newspaper use papers in my country
[99:59:59.999]Media in general are packed with articles on the legacy of our
[99:59:59.999]1968
[99:59:59.999]they remind Czechs of the hopes of Prague Spring and the misery after its suppression of the dream and the
[99:59:59.999]frustration of the wickedness of Soviet system and idealism of Czech people
[99:59:59.999]The story of Prague Spring is being told as a melodrama with
[99:59:59.999]Nice us being cheated by evil them up there where them is Czech or Soviet Communist leadership
[99:59:59.999]It is a lullaby that brings to our small nation comfort
[99:59:59.999]Created by a story of evil betrayal of our fight for the better world
[99:59:59.999]Note that it would be a complete nonsense
[99:59:59.999]But lullabies tend not to be intellectually very challenging
[99:59:59.999]So I'm trying something a little bit different here
[99:59:59.999]Rather than commemorate the failed attempt of liberation
[99:59:59.999]Let's set forth a journey of thoughts to find out how can we relate praque spring to nowaday?
[99:59:59.999]social and political
[99:59:59.999]reality
[99:59:59.999]beware of Russia is intellectually not a sufficient lesson of Prague Spring
[99:59:59.999]but rather
[99:59:59.999]type of
[99:59:59.999]ideological
[99:59:59.999]hijacking
[99:59:59.999]These articles on Prague Spring that flower each August Czech public space have one thing in common
[99:59:59.999]International context is not taken into consideration
[99:59:59.999]very much there and
[99:59:59.999]There has been not much of an interest the other way around to include Prague Spring into the Western story of its own
[99:59:59.999]1968
[99:59:59.999]Why so?
[99:59:59.999]because Prague Spring and 1968 in Western Europe
[99:59:59.999]mirror each other in a way that on both sides of the infamous Iron Curtain causes discomfort
[99:59:59.999]If we brutally simplify it
[99:59:59.999]Prague Spring was an attempt to enrich leftism with rites ISM while
[99:59:59.999]1968 in Western Europe
[99:59:59.999]strived for more leftism in generally right oriented capitalist societies
[99:59:59.999]Both movements failed because neither of systems was willing to change
[99:59:59.999]both movements left people with unfulfilled wishes
[99:59:59.999]On both sides there was a will of people to shift the system
[99:59:59.999]Not to smash it, but make it more. What was called in Prague Spring and mentioned already this conference
[99:59:59.999]human-like
[99:59:59.999]People on both sides of of the iron curtain showed sympathy for aspects of the forbidden and
[99:59:59.999]demonized system on the other side of the curtain
[99:59:59.999]Hence comes the resistance to include both into one story
[99:59:59.999]Because as well as Prague Spring was proof of resistance against some aspects of socialism
[99:59:59.999]1968 was proof of popular disregard of capitalism
[99:59:59.999]hardly anything
[99:59:59.999]mainstream thinkers in either part of Europe wanted to discuss
[99:59:59.999]During the 90s
[99:59:59.999]prague spring became together with the Velvet Revolution a
[99:59:59.999]couple of most
[99:59:59.999]commemorated
[99:59:59.999]Historical events related to previous regime serving as an example of its unjustice and evilness
[99:59:59.999]Each August to anyone on the day of Russian invasion Prague Spring made us
[99:59:59.999]frustrated of unjust occupation and each November brought relief and symbolic
[99:59:59.999]rejuvenation
[99:59:59.999]90s was a period of black and white and
[99:59:59.999]critical embracement of capitalism time when any social or other
[99:59:59.999]achievements of previous era were dismissed and people critical to new political orders
[99:59:59.999]marginalized
[99:59:59.999]Velvet Revolution and Prague Spring petrified into monuments and
[99:59:59.999]fear of Russian danger or
[99:59:59.999]Renaissance of communism became a forming element of new political establishment
[99:59:59.999]But not only that we haven't been living in bipolar world anymore
[99:59:59.999]But neither before had we lived in a world of good versus evil
[99:59:59.999]We are living in very extraordinary
[99:59:59.999]Times the human face of the world changes so rapidly that none of the familiar political
[99:59:59.999]speedometers are
[99:59:59.999]adequate
[99:59:59.999]This is a quote of Vaclav Havel
[99:59:59.999]From his speech in US Congress during his first visit to us as president of Czechoslovakia in
[99:59:59.999]1990
[99:59:59.999]fading of enthusiasm for post communist regime
[99:59:59.999]went in my country hand-in-hand with more problematic interpretation of
[99:59:59.999]Havels heritage
[99:59:59.999]Since once
[99:59:59.999]untouchable post-communist pro-democratic
[99:59:59.999]political leads together with the practical results of their politics lost their symbolic innocence
[99:59:59.999]people started to ask questions
[99:59:59.999]The usual critic of Havel by those who in general respect
[99:59:59.999]Who in general respect his heritage is his engagement in Iraq war?
[99:59:59.999]Yet, I see hovels main flow as more broad than single act of
[99:59:59.999]bombing of engagement and rather
[99:59:59.999]ideological
[99:59:59.999]Those who know how else essays from his dissident years know Havel was not only critical to communism
[99:59:59.999]But to capitalism as well
[99:59:59.999]Actually he put them side by side as regimes equal in their dehumanizing capacity
[99:59:59.999]but after
[99:59:59.999]1989 Havel stopped doing that
[99:59:59.999]We can debate the reasons, but the fact is clear
[99:59:59.999]And now a moment of pure fantasy
[99:59:59.999]Let's try to imagine Havel using his speech in Congress
[99:59:59.999]Not only to celebrate end of communism in Eastern Europe, but to address how under the veil of
[99:59:59.999]defending democracy
[99:59:59.999]US politics
[99:59:59.999]brutally defends its interests worldwide and task facilitates the rise of overall political sinnism
[99:59:59.999]Or closer to hovels nature and more faithful to his interests
[99:59:59.999]How detrimental is not only communism, but also deadly consumerism of?
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism that is capable of of similarly awful
[99:59:59.999]Atrocities as the system whose end Western world so much celebrated
[99:59:59.999]Why do I
[99:59:59.999]imagine this
[99:59:59.999]Because I wonder whether our current political situation
[99:59:59.999]They chose the same symptoms all over Europe and in a bit shifted way here in US and
[99:59:59.999]manifests as general frustration and dissatisfaction of people with their political environment
[99:59:59.999]couldn't have started in the 90s fuelled by ignorance and
[99:59:59.999]self-satisfaction
[99:59:59.999]We thought the victory of capitalism and democracy in 1989 marked the final stage of political progress
[99:59:59.999]Which reminds me of a common communist slogan, which has been marked at after 1989?
[99:59:59.999]with Soviet Union forever and ever after
[99:59:59.999]How could one laugh at the slogan, and it wants take a turn allottee of his own regime for granted
[99:59:59.999]We got a bit further from prague spring than you might have expected
[99:59:59.999]but we are still on the track of
[99:59:59.999]What Prague Spring means for us in?
[99:59:59.999]2018
[99:59:59.999]Related to current so-called rise of populism in Europe drugs bring well illustrates fact
[99:59:59.999]That even though both communists and democratic systems like to boast about the will of people
[99:59:59.999]That those systems represent
[99:59:59.999]Moments of mesda satisfaction proved to show otherwise in both cases
[99:59:59.999]In that sense I'm not the first one who mentioned this here
[99:59:59.999]crack spring is well comparable to contemporary tsunami of public disenchantment and
[99:59:59.999]anti-establishment
[99:59:59.999]emancipation
[99:59:59.999]People both now and in 1968 were hungry for alternatives
[99:59:59.999]disappointed and fed up with its political elites
[99:59:59.999]But whereas Prague Spring was filled with hope
[99:59:59.999]Current wave of discontent is fueled by fear instead
[99:59:59.999]and unlike in
[99:59:59.999]1968
[99:59:59.999]Intellectual elites are not on
[99:59:59.999]People's side and neither people favor them
[99:59:59.999]to simplify even more
[99:59:59.999]Prague Spring was rising people plus progressive intellectual elites against the establishment
[99:59:59.999]nowadays people against establishment with intellectuals having difficulties finding their position or
[99:59:59.999]Even at least being paid attention
[99:59:59.999]Why so
[99:59:59.999]Because people feel left behind by the intellectual elites the same way they feel left behind by the capitalist system
[99:59:59.999]Which for many in Czech Republic failed to deliver?
[99:59:59.999]significantly better life it promised 28 years ago and caused major social inequality
[99:59:59.999]For years
[99:59:59.999]the whole 90s
[99:59:59.999]We're checking to lectures muting any criticism of the post communist system arguing that anything was better
[99:59:59.999]Comparing to how it was before
[99:59:59.999]Flaws of the new system including corruption of ideas of Velvet Revolution
[99:59:59.999]Were called
[99:59:59.999]necessary labor pain of the transitional period
[99:59:59.999]That as a form of excuse is doomed never to come to an end
[99:59:59.999]We are reaping the fruits of what we've seeded
[99:59:59.999]Intellectuals lost their credit, and it will take them a long time to establish it again
[99:59:59.999]demonstrations again against xenophobia and populism won't help
[99:59:59.999]They serve only as a proof of our own. Hypocracy
[99:59:59.999]Wasn't it intellectuals who were all about emancipation of people's voices
[99:59:59.999]Wasn't it intellectuals who emphasized that everybody should participate in the debate about our society
[99:59:59.999]That marginalized voices should be heard
[99:59:59.999]so now
[99:59:59.999]Listen what they say and don't don't try to shut them up
[99:59:59.999]Or
[99:59:59.999]Do openly say that democracy as we have it served well for some time, but it
[99:59:59.999]But it's days are finished in favor of another system that we have more
[99:59:59.999]difficulty to imagine that the end of our
[99:59:59.999]capitalism
[99:59:59.999]Possibility of change is fostered by
[99:59:59.999]imagination in
[99:59:59.999]1968 we experienced imagination exceeding the limits of politics defined by power
[99:59:59.999]Power felt endangered and stroked back the dream was too big space for maneuvering too tight
[99:59:59.999]today's European Prague Spring is not only fostered by
[99:59:59.999]Imagination, but it fairly exceeds imagination of lots of us
[99:59:59.999]Taboos are being crushed
[99:59:59.999]Political limits are being pushed and redefined. What was impossible yesterday is tomorrow's practical reality?
[99:59:59.999]Prague Spring got its reputation as a failed attempt to repair the communist system and the world
[99:59:59.999]System is crucial now again
[99:59:59.999]As if the world system is only now becoming apparent after
[99:59:59.999]28 years after Velvet Revolution finely visible and painfully palpable
[99:59:59.999]For years we somehow thought we were just living in freedom
[99:59:59.999]Czechs in 1989 once traded for it didn't they
[99:59:59.999]But the greatest portion of what they got was capitalism that if you spoke about
[99:59:59.999]until it gradually wiped out social achievements and
[99:59:59.999]Foster inequality nobody was prepared on and nobody wanted
[99:59:59.999]Unlucky people
[99:59:59.999]Those whose factories were closed and the last thing they were interested in was a celebrated freedom to travel
[99:59:59.999]Were told for 28 years to shut up
[99:59:59.999]meanwhile
[99:59:59.999]witnessing tunneling of state companies by private entrepreneurs
[99:59:59.999]political affairs showing decadence of values and
[99:59:59.999]overall worshipping a free market regardless of its practical impact
[99:59:59.999]Frustration we face is a result of long processes that have been piling up in check society for last 28 years
[99:59:59.999]But have been overlooked and dismissed
[99:59:59.999]Rising inequality
[99:59:59.999]amount of in-depth people moral decadence of politics
[99:59:59.999]for those who were aware of the situation
[99:59:59.999]The current rise of populism isn't surprising
[99:59:59.999]Some journalists like to describe the situation as if people went crazy
[99:59:59.999]No, they just lost their patience
[99:59:59.999]Now back to Prague Spring through the breech of Russia
[99:59:59.999]Sometimes we act and thing or rather project that we act and think as if we didn't have any political
[99:59:59.999]Interests as if our motivation was a true good
[99:59:59.999]Our attitude to Russia is a good example of this self delusion
[99:59:59.999]We tend to praise
[99:59:59.999]Gorbachev for stuff that Putin calls the greatest catastrophe of 20th century the end of Soviet
[99:59:59.999]Union of
[99:59:59.999]course Czechs and Americans
[99:59:59.999]Celebrated it marks a victory in cold war
[99:59:59.999]Here in the US and it brought sovereignty to my country
[99:59:59.999]but for Russia it truly was a disaster an
[99:59:59.999]Established giant of world politics became overnight limping weak rag with hardly any respect
[99:59:59.999]How 90s Russia was on its knees and laughed at by Europe?
[99:59:59.999]in Russia they remember that and
[99:59:59.999]Won't forgive it
[99:59:59.999]Nobody says it openly
[99:59:59.999]but unlike weak Germany or weak European Union weak Russia is good for us and for the
[99:59:59.999]four European Union in general
[99:59:59.999]under Putin Putin Russia got back a lot of its strength and
[99:59:59.999]International respect which is based most commonly in politics on fear of course?
[99:59:59.999]Putin seems fearless and raises fear abroad being Russian I would have possibly
[99:59:59.999]Appreciated, but I am checked so I don't
[99:59:59.999]It's that I'm checked that I don't like Putin but Russians have different reasons for
[99:59:59.999]Electing him than just the mental weakness face to face brainwashing propaganda
[99:59:59.999]don't they
[99:59:59.999]People are fed up with politics we know it already no wonder
[99:59:59.999]Also media regardless on their political leaning prison politics as
[99:59:59.999]opportunistic power struggle with ideas just only as
[99:59:59.999]something on the side
[99:59:59.999]Nonetheless we still push people to legitimize it
[99:59:59.999]Why do we perceive those who don't vote who don't want to participate in this open comedy as irresponsible?
[99:59:59.999]Who wants to feel like a fool again and again?
[99:59:59.999]Democracy works well until their works a silent gentlemen agreement between people and its elite it says
[99:59:59.999]We will do the best to defend your freedom and your interests
[99:59:59.999]And you will respect us as a general authority and trust our judgment
[99:59:59.999]It works if people feel represented with their interests being defended
[99:59:59.999]The legitimacy is in crisis when it's not true anymore. That's the situation now
[99:59:59.999]Some of you might know that I'm a writer of fiction
[99:59:59.999]But I also write theater plays
[99:59:59.999]In my last one called guardians of public good part two
[99:59:59.999]There is a dialogue between a 20 year old guy and his mom in her 50s
[99:59:59.999]and I witness a Velvet Revolution she
[99:59:59.999]Asked hers she asks her son whether he knows. What is the difference between his his youth and hers
[99:59:59.999]He says
[99:59:59.999]That the difference is probably related to communism
[99:59:59.999]What she unlike him grew up at but his mom says that it's the fact that unlike when she was young
[99:59:59.999]Now nobody is envious of young people anymore
[99:59:59.999]Because they have the most of stuff that everybody is scared the most and that is the future
[99:59:59.999]In 1968 there were different worlds divided by Iron Curtain
[99:59:59.999]Now we are together in the same globalized hole of capitalism
[99:59:59.999]But instead of scolding and globalization. I have a question for you
[99:59:59.999]You emigrants, I'm sorry you make you Americans not not to Czech immigrants
[99:59:59.999]In this room aged over. Let's say 55 the question is
[99:59:59.999]What were you really thinking of people so
[99:59:59.999]uncritically embracing capitalism after the fall of the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe
[99:59:59.999]Didn't you consider them a?
[99:59:59.999]Bit naive a little bit funny
[99:59:59.999]all that overt enthusiasm
[99:59:59.999]You unlike Eastern Europeans weren't thinking of capitalism as a paradise were you?
[99:59:59.999]Or is it more like?
[99:59:59.999]That in the 90s everybody was full of enthusiasm about future regardless of nationality
[99:59:59.999]all was the start of
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism in Eastern Europe, too blurred with celebrated beginning of democracy that it's character went unnoticed
[99:59:59.999]Sometimes I think
[99:59:59.999]Why no intellectual authorities from the West who had long experience with?
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism and visited Eastern Europe in the beginnings of 90s or were informed about the situation there
[99:59:59.999]Haven't sent the public message like hey guys just be careful this transformation from communism to capitalism
[99:59:59.999]Might be damaging not only when it's not made quickly enough as we heard so often during the coupon privatization
[99:59:59.999]But you better don't have an ambition to emulate our
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism because it has given us these and these problems or at least try to avoid these problems
[99:59:59.999]Let's learn from our mistakes
[99:59:59.999]Something like that
[99:59:59.999]Were these warnings from the West were they're these warnings from the West, but we in Czechoslovakia just haven't paid attention
[99:59:59.999]Had they been not then why I
[99:59:59.999]Am aware that by this reproach I
[99:59:59.999]positioned myself where I actually hate to be
[99:59:59.999]Into a ridiculous someone who is upset that she wasn't
[99:59:59.999]Taken care of the way she liked to be
[99:59:59.999]however for more than 28 years
[99:59:59.999]We've been taught to look up to you
[99:59:59.999]Western Europeans and Americans
[99:59:59.999]It's deeply in our blood our complex of inferiority
[99:59:59.999]We've been taught that we've been living in shame for forty years of the communism
[99:59:59.999]Where Prague Spring even with its dark ending was one of one of very few bright spots?
[99:59:59.999]And the only real reason to be proud on ourselves was Velvet Revolution in 1989
[99:59:59.999]But isn't it actually the other way around
[99:59:59.999]Their experience of forty years of communism taught us a lot about us and society in general
[99:59:59.999]It surely was an experience we couldn't have obtained otherwise
[99:59:59.999]Havel even tackled exactly this also in his already mentioned speech in US Congress
[99:59:59.999]He said to US Congressmen
[99:59:59.999]Your journey has never been interrupted by
[99:59:59.999]totalitarian system
[99:59:59.999]The advantage you have over us is obvious at once
[99:59:59.999]at the same time however
[99:59:59.999]unintentionally it has given us something positive a
[99:59:59.999]special capacity
[99:59:59.999]To look from time to time somewhat further than someone who hasn't undergone this better XP aériens
[99:59:59.999]We too can offer something to you our experience and knowledge that has come from it end
[99:59:59.999]of quotation
[99:59:59.999]We have an experience of
[99:59:59.999]how people behave differently under different political circumstances
[99:59:59.999]But also how some others behave completely the same
[99:59:59.999]We know what it means the change of a system we experienced five of them only in the twentieth century
[99:59:59.999]austro-hungarian Empire first Republic
[99:59:59.999]German Protectorate during Second World War and
[99:59:59.999]in 1948 started 40 years of communism
[99:59:59.999]ended by Velvet Revolution
[99:59:59.999]So we
[99:59:59.999]Have probably possibly in built a certain sensitivity to systems in general
[99:59:59.999]And we should be able to detect them as systems first of all
[99:59:59.999]so I wonder what happened with this knowledge a
[99:59:59.999]Rhetorical question obviously we actually haven't worked with it at all
[99:59:59.999]however
[99:59:59.999]the alternative meaning of Prague Spring in
[99:59:59.999]2018
[99:59:59.999]That we are here to articulate
[99:59:59.999]directly stems from
[99:59:59.999]from experience of a system that manifested itself through revelation of its limits
[99:59:59.999]Russian invasion in 1968 couldn't show the limits of Czech communist regime more clearly and
[99:59:59.999]Russian troops stayed in my country for another 22 years
[99:59:59.999]To take care that these limits won't be ever crossed again. I
[99:59:59.999]Often ask myself
[99:59:59.999]How would I behave during the years of the Russian occupation that is called?
[99:59:59.999]normalization I
[99:59:59.999]Often ask myself whether I would stay stand firm and publicly disagree with the invasion
[99:59:59.999]whether I would speak out my opinion or
[99:59:59.999]collaborate with the regime as did most of people out of fear I
[99:59:59.999]Ask myself
[99:59:59.999]What are nowadays dilemmas where one either risks or collaborates?
[99:59:59.999]Surely, it's not a very verbal critical opinion anymore in capitalism. It's rather teeth less
[99:59:59.999]But it still has to do with collaboration and compromise
[99:59:59.999]The opposition
[99:59:59.999]after the Russian invasion
[99:59:59.999]was limited onto dissident movement of intellectuals and
[99:59:59.999]so-called underground of rather a political young people who gathered around illegal music scene
[99:59:59.999]Because of the resistance
[99:59:59.999]against Czech communist system
[99:59:59.999]Check dissident and underground scene was unlike majority of intellectuals and members of anti-establishment
[99:59:59.999]movements in the West right oriented
[99:59:59.999]After the Velvet Revolution
[99:59:59.999]prominent representatives of Czech descent got high positions in
[99:59:59.999]Administration and the Czech underground used its anti system reputation to build itself self-centered memorial
[99:59:59.999]self content celebration of its courage and moral superiority during communism
[99:59:59.999]Czech underground scene froze in its anti-communist zealousness
[99:59:59.999]And
[99:59:59.999]Looking into past
[99:59:59.999]After the victory of capitalism czech underground and dissident movement
[99:59:59.999]Thanks to its rightist orientation lost its claws but its power to inspire is nonetheless still here with us
[99:59:59.999]Check
[99:59:59.999]underground has an important stuff to offer us an
[99:59:59.999]ethical jewel
[99:59:59.999]It was particularly these people who were risking during communism loss of job their children's studies
[99:59:59.999]Years in prison or a house being burned by secret police
[99:59:59.999]Wasn't it especially the fact that Hubble's philosophy was guaranteed by his everyday life that gave him his reputation
[99:59:59.999]What are we now willing to sacrifice if we come to the conclusion that life that we are
[99:59:59.999]Expected to live is morally
[99:59:59.999]politically
[99:59:59.999]ecologically
[99:59:59.999]compromising
[99:59:59.999]Are we willing to lose at least part of our comfort how large is that part?
[99:59:59.999]Systems change, but they are still composed of the same people
[99:59:59.999]people with the same nature and
[99:59:59.999]Isn't it actually nothing more than all the people together that create these systems, so where are some aspects of systems change
[99:59:59.999]others remain the same
[99:59:59.999]Havel was right
[99:59:59.999]when he in his dissident years
[99:59:59.999]Lucidly saw through both communism and capitalism and emphasized
[99:59:59.999]They are not gender, but danger equality
[99:59:59.999]So long I had been
[99:59:59.999]fantasizing of
[99:59:59.999]had I been living that time would I have shown bravery during the Prague Spring and
[99:59:59.999]Resistance against communism all the years that followed, or would I have obeyed the rules?
[99:59:59.999]So long I had been fantasising
[99:59:59.999]Until I actually realized I live in the world of great moral compromises myself
[99:59:59.999]Dilemmas that seduce and disarm with the same power
[99:59:59.999]but more global consequences
[99:59:59.999]Than the communist ones that we live
[99:59:59.999]Similarly as the generation of my parents
[99:59:59.999]subjugated by our regime
[99:59:59.999]But it masters a global power and signs of decadence of this regime
[99:59:59.999]Unlike those of communism in my parents youth don't trigger hope for the better future, but fear
[99:59:59.999]Have us thought
[99:59:59.999]That our communist experience might be perceived. Not only as stripping us of our dignity
[99:59:59.999]But is the source of our race sensitivity towards systems in general
[99:59:59.999]This thought unfortunately never established
[99:59:59.999]It's one of Hoover's thoughts that as if he never said
[99:59:59.999]Yet, it seems so important especially now
[99:59:59.999]when recognizing a tough and merciless system under all veils of freedoms and consumed possibilities is
[99:59:59.999]harder than to uncover crippled nests of communism
[99:59:59.999]Whereas the need not to compromise is of the same urgency as during communist times
[99:59:59.999]Let's at least acknowledge that now we are there together
[99:59:59.999]Thank you
[99:59:59.999]All right, I I feel duty-bound to say a few words as
[99:59:59.999]one of those people who
[99:59:59.999]got a
[99:59:59.999]high government job after
[99:59:59.999]1989 for his real or imagined
[99:59:59.999]Courage before 1989 I wanted to thank you Petra for asking some
[99:59:59.999]very important questions and questions that are not
[99:59:59.999]comfortable to
[99:59:59.999]People of my generation and
[99:59:59.999]Because we also need to be asking ourselves. What went wrong and what is?
[99:59:59.999]responsible for
[99:59:59.999]the wave of
[99:59:59.999]discontent and and
[99:59:59.999]The satisfaction of young people in particular in
[99:59:59.999]Our society in the Czech Republic, but not only in the Czech Republic also in
[99:59:59.999]most countries around Europe and
[99:59:59.999]To a degree in this country as well
[99:59:59.999]I just want to
[99:59:59.999]Take
[99:59:59.999]Issue with some of the things that you've said because I I think you
[99:59:59.999]started
[99:59:59.999]You know quite rightly with
[99:59:59.999]What was happening on the both sides of the Iron Curtain in in 1968 and?
[99:59:59.999]and
[99:59:59.999]compared our
[99:59:59.999]Reform process with the wave of discontent in in Western Europe and in in the United States
[99:59:59.999]But as many people do
[99:59:59.999]afraid that you
[99:59:59.999]chose a fall symmetry between the
[99:59:59.999]two processes as if they were
[99:59:59.999]politically and
[99:59:59.999]morally
[99:59:59.999]equal they were not
[99:59:59.999]and
[99:59:59.999]it's
[99:59:59.999]the easiest way to prove it is to look at the
[99:59:59.999]the consequences of the two
[99:59:59.999]Processes the people who
[99:59:59.999]Protested in Paris in Berlin in
[99:59:59.999]Chicago and elsewhere went on to become
[99:59:59.999]members of parliament and leaders and ministers and the pillars of
[99:59:59.999]The society whereas the people who
[99:59:59.999]were protesting in in Prague went on to
[99:59:59.999]become window cleaners and and
[99:59:59.999]People of the
[99:59:59.999]Second Dorsett rank in the society I know of no
[99:59:59.999]hundreds of thousands of people who
[99:59:59.999]immigrated from the west to the east as a result of
[99:59:59.999]the faith revels in in Paris or
[99:59:59.999]Berlin or the United States I know of a number of people and some are sitting in this room
[99:59:59.999]Who?
[99:59:59.999]Well we get we'll get to that I have my I have my own
[99:59:59.999]Memories of Mexico City, but you know you you will be welcome to make your own point on I'm sure
[99:59:59.999]so so this
[99:59:59.999]Symmetry is false also force in what you say about
[99:59:59.999]Warszawa Havel it seems that you have not read your Havel
[99:59:59.999]Well enough or attentively enough Havel never says that never draws
[99:59:59.999]parallelism between
[99:59:59.999]Communism and
[99:59:59.999]capitalism
[99:59:59.999]In his essays what he says that they both have
[99:59:59.999]common origin in the
[99:59:59.999]In the
[99:59:59.999]Sinking of the Enlightenment and in the modern society, but he always considered
[99:59:59.999]communism to be a
[99:59:59.999]Perverse outgrowth of
[99:59:59.999]this line of European development and
[99:59:59.999]In this it was in his sinking over something much more
[99:59:59.999]ominous and much more
[99:59:59.999]tyrannical than
[99:59:59.999]than capitalism was you also draw which also often happens a
[99:59:59.999]difference between 3 1989 Havel and post
[99:59:59.999]1989 Havel and
[99:59:59.999]if you went on quoting from the
[99:59:59.999]address to the joint session of the United States Congress in February
[99:59:59.999]1990 for a little while longer you would come to the passage in which Havel
[99:59:59.999]Says that unless this world
[99:59:59.999]is
[99:59:59.999]become becomes aware of the
[99:59:59.999]Moral core of all human activity etc etcetera and will go on in its
[99:59:59.999]automated
[99:59:59.999]Consumerism and and disregard for
[99:59:59.999]Environment etc etc it will eventually be doomed. This is what however said
[99:59:59.999]in
[99:59:59.999]in
[99:59:59.999]1990 he always kept on warning in his speech system and again
[99:59:59.999]against the some of the aspects of the rough capitalism of the
[99:59:59.999]1990s in
[99:59:59.999]Czechoslovakia and the Czech Republic is
[99:59:59.999]quite famous
[99:59:59.999]1997
[99:59:59.999]speech to the
[99:59:59.999]Czech House of Deputies
[99:59:59.999]is
[99:59:59.999]Often cited as a as an example of that but nobody was willing to listen
[99:59:59.999]I mean most people at the time seemed to have been happy with
[99:59:59.999]Enjoying the fruit of
[99:59:59.999]consumerism and capitalism and hovels was actually a voice crying in the wilderness
[99:59:59.999]I don't want to go on and on about it. I could but one last thing if you if you allow me
[99:59:59.999]It is not true that for
[99:59:59.999]28 years
[99:59:59.999]Your generation was told to shut up
[99:59:59.999]It's the other way around your generation was told to speak up and didn't
[99:59:59.999]If you look, it's it's not about my generation
[99:59:59.999]Okay, it's it's not about like young people. I was rather speaking about like the
[99:59:59.999]People people normal people, but I you know you represent the night
[99:59:59.999]And you're representing a generational point of view
[99:59:59.999]And I I and I you probably know the studies as well as I do that
[99:59:59.999]Sociological studies that show that the level of involvement of
[99:59:59.999]particular young people declined and
[99:59:59.999]Kept declining over most of the last 28 years now it seems to be on the rise again, and I want to
[99:59:59.999]Congratulate you on that and I hope that you will speak up and the fact that you
[99:59:59.999]Your thinking's at least when old men like me seems to be
[99:59:59.999]immature and flawed is
[99:59:59.999]Is is is is no
[99:59:59.999]No bad thing because that
[99:59:59.999]should be
[99:59:59.999]Fitting for your generation think
[99:59:59.999]Thank you, thank you for your
[99:59:59.999]Comments well I will just say a couple of sentences
[99:59:59.999]Well let's not talk about like
[99:59:59.999]What what love Havel meant how and he's not here with us to?
[99:59:59.999]correct us anymore, and it's probably and also not the
[99:59:59.999]very point of
[99:59:59.999]my paper rather
[99:59:59.999]really
[99:59:59.999]more that you mentioned the the difference of let's say the
[99:59:59.999]reparations in the
[99:59:59.999]Capitalist system and in the communist system in
[99:59:59.999]1968 that in Czech Republic it was like incomparably harsh
[99:59:59.999]That's
[99:59:59.999]undisputably through
[99:59:59.999]But but here, I would say you again do something that I was
[99:59:59.999]Trying to criticize in the text and that is like
[99:59:59.999]Justifying
[99:59:59.999]Justifying the defense of
[99:59:59.999]Let's say justifying some
[99:59:59.999]atrocities of the system by comparing it with the
[99:59:59.999]other system that
[99:59:59.999]Does something else even worse I mean I I think that
[99:59:59.999]That was what was like this kind of argumentation was going on and on
[99:59:59.999]When like people were criticizing?
[99:59:59.999]Contemporary political
[99:59:59.999]situation or
[99:59:59.999]Tunneling in economics or whatever corruption and was social problems there was always the argumentation
[99:59:59.999]Hey look in the Communist times or in communist countries
[99:59:59.999]This is worse. So you did the same?
[99:59:59.999]with the
[99:59:59.999]1968 and and and the way it treated people so I don't like this way of argumentation and also in general
[99:59:59.999]Communism and capitalism they have different tools how to
[99:59:59.999]Let's say make people obey or how they
[99:59:59.999]How they make people collaborate you know in the in the communist types in the in the communism?
[99:59:59.999]What is the chorus of great danger?
[99:59:59.999]is
[99:59:59.999]Opinion it's like
[99:59:59.999]Yeah opinion different judgment criticism
[99:59:59.999]So it's being punished harshly, but in the capitalism. That's not really what?
[99:59:59.999]matters so the the fact that in capitalist society for your
[99:59:59.999]Criticism you don't go to prison
[99:59:59.999]It's not a justification of its. It's not a proof of its good. It's just
[99:59:59.999]It's just an example of like
[99:59:59.999]different strategy of of the of the system you know so
[99:59:59.999]So
[99:59:59.999]so it's it's it's it's very much about the
[99:59:59.999]What means the what is the counter power in the regime in the Communist times it was?
[99:59:59.999]Opinion in the capital in the capitalism, it's not opinion anymore, so don't
[99:59:59.999]Let's not argue that like free opinion is a proof of like
[99:59:59.999]anything because it's
[99:59:59.999]it's
[99:59:59.999]Yeah, it's teeth less its it means nothing so that's why I mean anyone can say whatever he wants
[99:59:59.999]Sorry
[99:59:59.999]No, I mean that in the in
[99:59:59.999]Know let me let me explain it to you. I said that when you criticize
[99:59:59.999]Something in a capitalist society
[99:59:59.999]you can because
[99:59:59.999]Your voice does not mean anything. It's you are you are another your voice is not a challenge. You know
[99:59:59.999]Unlike in communism where it's where. It's dangerous where it's powerful
[99:59:59.999]I've
[99:59:59.999]Thank you. Thank you for your
[99:59:59.999]instructive talk I
[99:59:59.999]agree with you and as an older person from
[99:59:59.999]America or Western Europe, I think you know I I on behalf of the group take some responsibility
[99:59:59.999]in in not pointing out some of the flaws of
[99:59:59.999]The capitalist the free market economy, but I think that to use a word that you use it you used very well
[99:59:59.999]those of us here were seduced by some of the benefits of
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism was very hard to object to it to step out of the capitalist world
[99:59:59.999]because
[99:59:59.999]particularly in after the Velvet Revolution
[99:59:59.999]Things were going very very well economically people had
[99:59:59.999]Amenities they they had luxuries it was very hard for people to say no don't don't follow that path
[99:59:59.999]now in in chzechland I
[99:59:59.999]understand why
[99:59:59.999]Most people who had little during the 40 years of communist occupation could also have been
[99:59:59.999]seduced by
[99:59:59.999]The the material things that they were obtaining that they were unable to obtain during the previous generation and a half
[99:59:59.999]but
[99:59:59.999]the the Czech people have had a very strong intellectual tradition and
[99:59:59.999]It was manifested in
[99:59:59.999]the Prague Spring in
[99:59:59.999]1968 it continued
[99:59:59.999]until the Velvet Revolution and beyond
[99:59:59.999]There also was the ability, which maybe people didn't have in the 1930s and 1940s
[99:59:59.999]To watch television and to see what was happening elsewhere
[99:59:59.999]to read newspapers
[99:59:59.999]Which they may not have been able to do previously to hear people who had traveled and come back to a read books
[99:59:59.999]to listen to the radio
[99:59:59.999]Why is it that the?
[99:59:59.999]Intellectual class with only some exceptions. We're not able to find
[99:59:59.999]a way
[99:59:59.999]between the extremes of the free market economy and
[99:59:59.999]the extreme inequality that capitalism produced to find
[99:59:59.999]either a middle ground or a
[99:59:59.999]ground that maybe was on the capitalists side, but would not lead to some of the
[99:59:59.999]Detriments that capitalist society brought to Western Europe and to the Western Hemisphere
[99:59:59.999]What what happened that?
[99:59:59.999]Were that was the intellectual class also seduced by the material benefits, or what happened that that?
[99:59:59.999]That the Czech
[99:59:59.999]Czechoslovakia, and then the Czech Republic was led down the same path which you wish you rightfully criticized as as bringing
[99:59:59.999]the inequality that free-market economy often does
[99:59:59.999]well, I think the the
[99:59:59.999]Answer is very simple
[99:59:59.999]And I I think I mentioned it already here that
[99:59:59.999]Any kind of
[99:59:59.999]Attempt to let's say make
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism so softer in any more like
[99:59:59.999]Remarkable way was what's considered and and and labeled as like
[99:59:59.999]Crypto communism. I was like stigmatized this way of thinking was
[99:59:59.999]Stigmatized so it was
[99:59:59.999]It was just this way that's it
[99:59:59.999]Yes, it was kind of a
[99:59:59.999]Sorry, it was sort of
[99:59:59.999]Shameful in a way to come up with this idea because it would
[99:59:59.999]label you and not in a nice way, and that's why you rather keep it for your self because
[99:59:59.999]Otherwise most of people would would not go with you and any and in any way
[99:59:59.999]mentally yeah
[99:59:59.999]Yes bruce bruce Garver
[99:59:59.999]cadet e-bill student am
[99:59:59.999]brazo kid Potti sathi miletti
[99:59:59.999]I to thank you for a
[99:59:59.999]Stimulating talk and asking questions
[99:59:59.999]Certainly from a younger person's perspective, but nonetheless questions that are deserving
[99:59:59.999]Careful and critical thought by everybody in the room. I don't wish to sound like an old fogey. Maybe I do
[99:59:59.999]Certainly chronologically, I'm in that situation
[99:59:59.999]ah, but I'd like to to
[99:59:59.999]Look at the thoughtful things
[99:59:59.999]You said in two ways
[99:59:59.999]One would be in a historical perspective looking back at what I've learned about
[99:59:59.999]Czech history and having studied it now for close to 55 years and
[99:59:59.999]the other would be to look at it in an
[99:59:59.999]American's perspective
[99:59:59.999]With the what is true of our country in every other country in three ways and
[99:59:59.999]that would be a
[99:59:59.999]comparison if we're going to compare one system to another let's say the
[99:59:59.999]pre-1990 Soviet system or the
[99:59:59.999]Pre-1945
[99:59:59.999]German Third Reich system or the pre
[99:59:59.999]1918
[99:59:59.999]austria-hungary or
[99:59:59.999]Imperial German system and those of Western Europe in the United States and
[99:59:59.999]That I would suggest you might
[99:59:59.999]look at what you've studied and
[99:59:59.999]thoughtfully interpreted in
[99:59:59.999]three different ways
[99:59:59.999]One would be the contrast of and this is what I sort of missed in your talk
[99:59:59.999]one would be the contrast between
[99:59:59.999]The ideals that
[99:59:59.999]Motivated the
[99:59:59.999]Western
[99:59:59.999]Representative governments with a capitalist economy
[99:59:59.999]Regulated to a greater or lesser or lesser degree to look at those ideals as
[99:59:59.999]means of achieving human betterment and
[99:59:59.999]Then look as you already done. You've done that look at the reality and
[99:59:59.999]I was an American who lived in this country now. I'm in my seventh decade
[99:59:59.999]I'm painfully aware of the enormous
[99:59:59.999]difference between American ideals and
[99:59:59.999]American reality, and I tried to bring out a little bit of that in my talk
[99:59:59.999]yesterday morning
[99:59:59.999]having myself been an unwitting participant in
[99:59:59.999]JFK's germ warfare experiments for example
[99:59:59.999]Now we now have in this country, and I hope they will remain intact
[99:59:59.999]legal safeguards
[99:59:59.999]against this type of
[99:59:59.999]creating unwitting
[99:59:59.999]participants in potentially dangerous
[99:59:59.999]experiments
[99:59:59.999]This isn't to say it couldn't happen
[99:59:59.999]But it's up to us to see that they don't now the third way I would
[99:59:59.999]Perhaps suggest you might look at these differences is
[99:59:59.999]to look in each case at the gap if you will or the
[99:59:59.999]discrepancy between the ideal and the practice and
[99:59:59.999]There is always going to be this difference now. I always believe from having lived in
[99:59:59.999]communist, Czechoslovakia on total about a year and three quarters on on three different occasions
[99:59:59.999]That the gap between the ideal and the reality was larger in
[99:59:59.999]the Soviet bloc considerably larger than
[99:59:59.999]the gap in reality which was big enough
[99:59:59.999]That I noticed in the United States or in other countries. I I know pretty well Italy France and
[99:59:59.999]Great Britain
[99:59:59.999]and
[99:59:59.999]Look at that gap between the ideals in reality and how and how that's been carried out
[99:59:59.999]Finally to look back at Czech history and its controversial interpretations
[99:59:59.999]I wrote a book on the origins of the first Czech political parties one example of youth feeling betrayed by
[99:59:59.999]Age and experience if you will is after the mulatto Jessica strana
[99:59:59.999]the
[99:59:59.999]Not a not a nice for me, so lean not on not on a spoke to Ole Miss Ole Miss Tirana
[99:59:59.999]how after the
[99:59:59.999]alladhina
[99:59:59.999]demonstrations of youth in 1893 in a sense made agreement with the Habsburg
[99:59:59.999]government
[99:59:59.999]And the Bohemian Moravian girls grown does it sir youth felt betrayed
[99:59:59.999]Some of these men later went on to be founders of the first republic
[99:59:59.999]Czechoslovakia the creation in 1918 which I think was with all of its faults and immeasurable step forward from austria-hungary
[99:59:59.999]votes for women
[99:59:59.999]Compulsory secondary education
[99:59:59.999]quite a number of things the extension of
[99:59:59.999]universal suffrage to local and
[99:59:59.999]regional
[99:59:59.999]Government, which didn't exist these are steps forward yet
[99:59:59.999]I see time and again a tendency to compare and there are similarities old
[99:59:59.999]austria-hungary with the Czechoslovakia Republic and of course the shock of swap Republic ended in disaster at Munich
[99:59:59.999]But we won't go into those reasons, but but throughout Czech histories
[99:59:59.999]there's been this this tradition of enthusiasm and disappointment so if you'd go back maybe and
[99:59:59.999]Reconsider your views in light of the longer view of history and keep your critical perspective
[99:59:59.999]I would suggest that might be a good thing to do I'm going to stop here. You might have a question for me. Thank you
[99:59:59.999]Thank you for your advice. I'm getting so many interesting advices
[99:59:59.999]Well you use you said a lot of things
[99:59:59.999]What what you said about
[99:59:59.999]Comparison
[99:59:59.999]Yeah, definitely I agree, it's it's very important to
[99:59:59.999]Compare even though
[99:59:59.999]Comparison in a way that I that mr. Janowski
[99:59:59.999]was
[99:59:59.999]Trying to do I mean I said why I don't find it
[99:59:59.999]appropriate
[99:59:59.999]But yeah, we should we shall compare
[99:59:59.999]Ideals versus ideals and practical reality versus practical reality, that's true
[99:59:59.999]the thing is
[99:59:59.999]That
[99:59:59.999]Well one thing is that we have
[99:59:59.999]Ideal of
[99:59:59.999]Property is you know owned
[99:59:59.999]By the society so everybody has access to to everything and that is like very nice, but then in reality
[99:59:59.999]people tend
[99:59:59.999]often not to take care of stuff that is
[99:59:59.999]Everybody sent we have this experience from communist times when there were likes
[99:59:59.999]Something that was everybody's and like people were stealing out of it and didn't really take care
[99:59:59.999]So that's then the reality and and and the problem how to implement
[99:59:59.999]nice ideal into
[99:59:59.999]reality, but then
[99:59:59.999]Another situation might occur and that is the situation
[99:59:59.999]When the nice ideal is actually
[99:59:59.999]implemented into reality, but actually when it's
[99:59:59.999]realized
[99:59:59.999]And it's all its potential actually used
[99:59:59.999]We are living in a world that is
[99:59:59.999]Unlivable and terrible. Let's say let's take an I
[99:59:59.999]don't know ideal of
[99:59:59.999]Individualism I sorry and lay
[99:59:59.999]quite an interesting movie a documentary movie about
[99:59:59.999]Contemporary Sweden that serves as an ideal
[99:59:59.999]for many countries in Europe
[99:59:59.999]because of its let's say
[99:59:59.999]Big like social
[99:59:59.999]Programs and and it's kind of soft stuff
[99:59:59.999]It's capitalism anyway
[99:59:59.999]And and but Swedes are also in ideal of individualism that is core of
[99:59:59.999]in core of like capitalist ideology
[99:59:59.999]they treasure it very much and
[99:59:59.999]So they they want it really make people as independent as possible in their society so make
[99:59:59.999]make
[99:59:59.999]Wife or woman independent on men on husband make old people
[99:59:59.999]independent on young people so that they don't have to rely on them in their old age and
[99:59:59.999]So so they they completely as if
[99:59:59.999]Undid the
[99:59:59.999]The network in the in the society, let's say that the natural or traditional
[99:59:59.999]Network of relationships in the society naming it
[99:59:59.999]Network off of power of unequal power and dependency and said like oh we want people to have
[99:59:59.999]Relations based on freedom and equality, and we don't want anybody to be dependent on anybody else
[99:59:59.999]so now basically there is a
[99:59:59.999]big special
[99:59:59.999]Building it's like oh, it's special special office that is focused on
[99:59:59.999]Management of like old people who died home alone and nobody
[99:59:59.999]Knows that they died because they don't have any ties to anybody anymore
[99:59:59.999]So suddenly there is this awkward smell in the house
[99:59:59.999]And they break in and they realize this guy died three months ago and also
[99:59:59.999]Because it's its ultimate eyes the the bills and everything it was also
[99:59:59.999]You know it introduced as as a great thing that it would be it would be
[99:59:59.999]Automatically, so everything is automatically so so
[99:59:59.999]the computer pays for everything and so nobody really the system does not recognize that you are dead and
[99:59:59.999]And and it's it's it's it's it's an implementation of the ideal of
[99:59:59.999]individualism up to its
[99:59:59.999]Potential it up to its
[99:59:59.999]possibility yeah, so so that's another way of
[99:59:59.999]of
[99:59:59.999]thinking about
[99:59:59.999]about
[99:59:59.999]reality not only that ideals in reality get
[99:59:59.999]crippled like
[99:59:59.999]as I mentioned this communist ideal of common property, but also
[99:59:59.999]when the the ideals are
[99:59:59.999]implemented like
[99:59:59.999]120 percent and that's I think is rather
[99:59:59.999]a problem of
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism that it that there are these like nice ideals
[99:59:59.999]But then when they are implemented sometimes, it's just
[99:59:59.999]It's it ends up in like horror
[99:59:59.999]alienated
[99:59:59.999]Life that like it's unlivable
[99:59:59.999]We have one time for what two things one more question and then after this Petra is going to be signing books
[99:59:59.999]I just wanted to add that
[99:59:59.999]The
[99:59:59.999]difference between ideals of
[99:59:59.999]Capitalism and communism and both are interesting is that?
[99:59:59.999]Let's say when I when I mention ideal of
[99:59:59.999]common property
[99:59:59.999]You will or there will be immediately someone who will say okay common property
[99:59:59.999]But let's see how it ended up in communist states. You know it's like nobody took care about this stuff and but when I say
[99:59:59.999]ideal of
[99:59:59.999]individualism
[99:59:59.999]Not so many people
[99:59:59.999]realize
[99:59:59.999]You know that this is this example. I mentioned when it's implemented it. Also is not really
[99:59:59.999]Very good, but people just don't think
[99:59:59.999]That way you know
[99:59:59.999]Thank you, I enjoyed your remarks and
[99:59:59.999]extension of the discussion we were having the other night
[99:59:59.999]I really appreciate it and been thinking about that. I wanted to make one historical correction from the American side to the original
[99:59:59.999]question or to you and this idea that capitalism and the and the United States in particular I'm a historian of
[99:59:59.999]The 60s here at the University, and it's just simply not true that the American regime is
[99:59:59.999]Softer I would argue particular when you look through the Ren's of lens of race
[99:59:59.999]So you are right now down the road a few miles from the long
[99:59:59.999]Longest-serving political prisoner in the United States today who was a black member of the Black Panther Party who was incarcerated in?
[99:59:59.999]1970 there were many many people that were incarcerated we have created a regime since the
[99:59:59.999]1960s of mass incarceration that has incarcerated more people than any Western nation in the world
[99:59:59.999]Disproportionately African Americans and other people of color and the poor these are simple historical
[99:59:59.999]Realities on that and I don't think that we should overlook them
[99:59:59.999]Particularly sitting in a room where where there are not many people of color sitting here and talking with us
[99:59:59.999]So I want to make that point
[99:59:59.999]very
[99:59:59.999]Clearly on that
[99:59:59.999]but I'm really interested in kind of reorienting to you as an artist and given what you've said and in our particular moment now of
[99:59:59.999]the the
[99:59:59.999]seeming triumph of global capitalism and consumerism
[99:59:59.999]And the difficult you know having a myriad of voice
[99:59:59.999]voices making than any voice kind of hard to get through I wonder if you could talk just more about your
[99:59:59.999]How you see your role and the role of artists?
[99:59:59.999]in in
[99:59:59.999]addressing the
[99:59:59.999]political and existential
[99:59:59.999]quandary we find ourselves in today and
[99:59:59.999]How you see your voice?
[99:59:59.999]Mattering in a landscape where there are so many voices and when it's easy for culture to be
[99:59:59.999]commodified and sold back to us and thus
[99:59:59.999]diluted or its power
[99:59:59.999]Undermined and things too, but I just wanted to kind of reorient back towards
[99:59:59.999]Maybe have you talked a little bit about just what you're thinking about your role as an artist and your voice as an artist
[99:59:59.999]In the kind of landscape that we find ourselves in today
[99:59:59.999]That's a very complex question
[99:59:59.999]Well I just
[99:59:59.999]Try to
[99:59:59.999]Tackle stuff that I find
[99:59:59.999]important and
[99:59:59.999]relevant and also
[99:59:59.999]provocative probably in my
[99:59:59.999]Novels and try to do it as as as
[99:59:59.999]as good as I can to
[99:59:59.999]Make people
[99:59:59.999]Well to probably open up certain doors or
[99:59:59.999]Yappity mentioned it that I think was very appropriate
[99:59:59.999]Like push people out of their comfort zones
[99:59:59.999]I
[99:59:59.999]Find it that I find that it it's for me something that
[99:59:59.999]art is here for and
[99:59:59.999]Yeah, and and um, I just try to be
[99:59:59.999]Sincere and and
[99:59:59.999]What else can I
[99:59:59.999]Say well, I can say couple of words about book that is about to be published in I think three days in Prague
[99:59:59.999]In tourist
[99:59:59.999]Publishing house we have also published Victor's dialogue over there
[99:59:59.999]and
[99:59:59.999]It's a
[99:59:59.999]Because it's like political. Let's saying about something about contemporary time. It's a dystopian a novel
[99:59:59.999]from near future and
[99:59:59.999]It
[99:59:59.999]it's
[99:59:59.999]It's about there is this movement. It's like radical humanistic
[99:59:59.999]feminist movement that takes over the discourse in the society
[99:59:59.999]and
[99:59:59.999]these
[99:59:59.999]representatives of members of the movement they say
[99:59:59.999]the
[99:59:59.999]Quality of woman is
[99:59:59.999]Spiritual
[99:59:59.999]inner
[99:59:59.999]Real a matter of like
[99:59:59.999]Character ins and stuff like that. That's what's the value of the woman. It's it's not about her
[99:59:59.999]beauty or age as
[99:59:59.999]as are the traditional
[99:59:59.999]Matters of interest and so that we should be your man should be
[99:59:59.999]Attracted to female on the basis of these true real values and not on the basis of like superficial
[99:59:59.999]Stuff like
[99:59:59.999]Beauty or youth
[99:59:59.999]Because that's I mean that's kind of obsolete and even probably
[99:59:59.999]Unethical and it's old and we want to be better
[99:59:59.999]And
[99:59:59.999]So I mean this is it becomes like successful mainstream that's the society, that's how it
[99:59:59.999]That's what's what's what's what's
[99:59:59.999]What's the mainstream ish thinking and and most men they cept it?
[99:59:59.999]Well some of them. They don't and they are
[99:59:59.999]Sort of
[99:59:59.999]parked in these
[99:59:59.999]reeducation
[99:59:59.999]institutions where they are taught how to become become
[99:59:59.999]Like true
[99:59:59.999]New man
[99:59:59.999]better
[99:59:59.999]people
[99:59:59.999]And the story is told by a lady who is a lecture who works as a lecture in this
[99:59:59.999]reeducation
[99:59:59.999]Institution so she tells a story of the history of the movement, that's the name of the story brief history of the movement
[99:59:59.999]She she tells she told tells us about the procedures that her
[99:59:59.999]Clients have to go through and something about her
[99:59:59.999]personal life too, so
[99:59:59.999]This I think is pretty
[99:59:59.999]Political and deals with stuff that
[99:59:59.999]People
[99:59:59.999]Think about a lot
[99:59:59.999]Now and what was my aim was to not to?
[99:59:59.999]Not to mock such a movement not like laugh at it well, it's difficult to
[99:59:59.999]Celebrate it because it's pretty problematic, but but keep it in this like disturbing
[99:59:59.999]Position of
[99:59:59.999]Something that put that pushes you out of your comfort zone because I mean in general
[99:59:59.999]Ideals are pretty nice

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Petra Hůlová: 1968 in 2018

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