Catch Up With Chuck | Episode 12 | Athena

Rural Futures Institute Author

02/01/2018 Added

9 Plays

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Athena

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[00:00:05.670]Welcome back to Catch Up with Chuck
[00:00:07.370]from The Rural Futures Institute
[00:00:09.090]at the University of Nebraska.
[00:00:11.280]I'm Chuck Schroeder,
[00:00:12.150]I'm Executive Director of the Institute.
[00:00:15.120]Last year we spent some serious time
[00:00:18.250]in a strategic planning process, and in that process
[00:00:21.930]we asked ourselves what are those things
[00:00:24.380]we really believe about thriving rural communities
[00:00:28.300]and it wasn't just things we pulled out of the air
[00:00:30.220]it was based on our observations and what we really felt
[00:00:33.600]made a difference in rural communities.
[00:00:36.330]Two of those beliefs are number one
[00:00:38.650]that diverse and inclusive leadership
[00:00:41.800]is a critical factor in thriving rural communities.
[00:00:46.060]Second we believe that our complex future
[00:00:49.950]requires mutual respect and coordination, collaboration
[00:00:54.270]between rural and urban regions and communities.
[00:00:57.160]So it's a very special treat today for me to welcome
[00:01:01.740]our very special guest Dr. Athena Ramos,
[00:01:04.790]who is the Community Health Program Manager
[00:01:07.500]at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
[00:01:10.270]She is a fellow with The Rural Futures Institute
[00:01:13.590]we're proud to say and certainly a very committed
[00:01:16.060]difference maker in Nebraska's rural communities.
[00:01:19.910]So Athena, welcome.
[00:01:21.330]Thank you, thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:23.370]Well listen, you're a rock star.
[00:01:25.805](laughing)
[00:01:27.204]I knew that that'd make you laugh and blush
[00:01:28.520]but it's just the truth you have a fascinating background.
[00:01:31.780]I'm gonna look at my notes on this because it's so much fun.
[00:01:34.810]Bachelors Degree in Public Administration,
[00:01:37.760]and NBA and a Master's in Urban Studies.
[00:01:42.233]Yeah.
[00:01:43.066]Correct. Yeah.
[00:01:43.899]Ph.D in International Family and Community Studies.
[00:01:48.250]You're a prolific researcher I really
[00:01:51.220]I get a kick out of looking through your record
[00:01:54.820]of publications.
[00:01:55.820]You've been published in prestigious journals
[00:01:57.920]on a very wide variety of subjects.
[00:02:00.570]I happen to know you're also a figure skater
[00:02:02.830]for heaven sakes.
[00:02:03.943]Yes.
[00:02:04.776]But listen before we get into some specific areas
[00:02:07.890]of interest of The Rural Futures Institute
[00:02:10.350]I want you to help us know Athena a little better.
[00:02:12.640]Cause I'm gonna tell you we have parents and students
[00:02:16.240]and others watching who would very much like
[00:02:19.210]to have their kids grow up to be like Athena,
[00:02:21.440]so tell us a little bit about
[00:02:23.680]what brought you to this point.
[00:02:25.300]Wow, what a great compliment. Thank you.
[00:02:27.201](laughing)
[00:02:28.034]Well, I guess I would start out by saying
[00:02:30.330]I'm a long life Nebraskan,
[00:02:31.770]I'm a Bellevue kid, I grew up in Bellevue,
[00:02:35.570]my father was in the Air Force
[00:02:37.240]which is what brought my family here
[00:02:39.900]to Nebraska in the first place.
[00:02:43.580]I didn't get any of the Air Force brat lifestyle,
[00:02:46.010]I didn't get to move around.
[00:02:47.221](laughing)
[00:02:48.054]He retired before they had me
[00:02:49.090]so I was kind of stuck here in Bellevue (laughs).
[00:02:52.320]I'm the daughter of immigrants,
[00:02:54.070]my father is from Puerto Rico,
[00:02:55.350]my mother is from Germany.
[00:02:57.060]I'm a product of the University of Nebraska's system
[00:03:00.690]I did three out of those four degrees that you mentioned
[00:03:03.350]at the University of Nebraska at Omaha.
[00:03:06.980]I'm a mom of three,
[00:03:09.160]I have two boys and a girl,
[00:03:11.460]I have a 14 year old son,
[00:03:13.550]a 13 year old son, and a 5 year old little daughter.
[00:03:16.550]I'm married to my husband Jose,
[00:03:19.850]and I've been working for UNMC in the center
[00:03:22.150]for reducing health disparities now for over 10 years,
[00:03:25.880]which is really great because I love my job.
[00:03:28.440]I tell people every day that it's a pleasure to go to work
[00:03:30.860]because I get to do so many different things
[00:03:32.804]and I have the bet job ever, is what I tell people.
[00:03:35.657](laughing)
[00:03:38.140]I started out working actually in the community,
[00:03:42.170]so my very first professional job was
[00:03:44.310]with the Latino Center of the Midlands,
[00:03:46.100]so I have this passion for community, for organizing,
[00:03:49.550]for working with people, talking to people.
[00:03:51.760]I'm one of those people that I can do the desk job
[00:03:55.040]but I sure love to talk to people (laughs),
[00:03:57.970]so they put me out there
[00:03:59.520]and I think that's one of my strengths,
[00:04:02.210]is being with people.
[00:04:03.330]Sure. Mm-hmm.
[00:04:04.200]Well listen, I can remember very specifically
[00:04:09.050]you and I first met at out first World Regional Forum
[00:04:13.150]that we hosted in Nebraska City in 2014,
[00:04:16.830]and you were one of those that absolutely was engaging
[00:04:20.400]everybody in the place and including me, which I appreciate.
[00:04:24.120]But my first thought was
[00:04:26.230]so what's this person from the University of Nebraska
[00:04:29.020]Medical Center doing hanging around
[00:04:32.360]at this Rural Regional Forum, but I quickly discovered
[00:04:35.440]that you really have a genuine deep interest
[00:04:38.970]in community and community development,
[00:04:41.960]and bringing people together.
[00:04:43.750]Talk to us just a little bit about those interests
[00:04:46.500]and you spoke a little bit already about those roots
[00:04:49.040]but talk about what drives you out
[00:04:52.030]to that community engagement.
[00:04:53.670]Yeah, sure.
[00:04:54.610]Well I'll tell you how I got to
[00:04:56.260]that Rural Futures Forum (laughs out loud).
[00:05:00.270]And actually I'm not sure that a lot of people know
[00:05:03.650]but there are a lot of health disparities
[00:05:05.820]that are based on your location.
[00:05:08.060]So looking at rural areas we see that there are differences
[00:05:12.100]in rates of substance use, in different cancers,
[00:05:17.050]and infant mortality, and cardiovascular disease,
[00:05:20.210]and a lot of different chronic conditions.
[00:05:22.390]So that's what originally got me to the Rural Forum
[00:05:25.070]because as a center for reducing health disparities
[00:05:27.481]we have a mission to serve the entire state of Nebraska
[00:05:30.700]not just the urban area.
[00:05:33.240]And also professionally I've been working
[00:05:36.610]gosh I wanna say since 2012, 2012
[00:05:41.410]with the Central State Center
[00:05:42.780]for Agricultural Safety and Health,
[00:05:44.440]which is based out of our College of Public Health in Omaha
[00:05:47.910]but we serve a seven state region.
[00:05:49.710]We serve Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota,
[00:05:52.940]North Dakota, Iowa, Missouri, and Minnesota.
[00:05:56.590]And we look at health and safety issues
[00:05:59.030]among the agricultural population.
[00:06:01.020]So farmers and farm workers,
[00:06:02.600]I primarily work with farm workers.
[00:06:04.720]I've had a number of studies that look
[00:06:06.480]at migrant farm workers health,
[00:06:08.640]whether that be physical health, or behavioral health,
[00:06:11.130]social health, integration.
[00:06:13.160]I also worked with the hog confinement workers,
[00:06:16.300]immigrant hog confinement workers
[00:06:17.650]and now we're working on the feed lots.
[00:06:19.800]So I have a project right now that's looking at health
[00:06:22.520]and safety among immigrant cattle feed lot workers
[00:06:24.970]here in Nebraska and also in Kansas.
[00:06:28.200]So you can see professionally there is definitely a reason
[00:06:30.820]to be at The Rural Futures Forum.
[00:06:32.408]Sure.
[00:06:33.241]But I can tell you
[00:06:34.620]growing up as a kid, always here in Nebraska
[00:06:37.500]you know in school I remember the Oregon Trail
[00:06:40.530]I don't know if anybody else remembers that on the computer
[00:06:43.820]when the computer screens were black and green.
[00:06:46.215](laughing)
[00:06:48.043]I remember that.
[00:06:48.876]Back in that day (laughs out loud).
[00:06:50.550]There was the Oregon Trail game
[00:06:52.560]and that was something that sparked my interest
[00:06:56.030]in different parts of our state,
[00:06:58.010]because you had to go to the different monuments
[00:07:00.720]and the different sites along on the trail.
[00:07:02.840]I also remember my father would take me on summer vacations
[00:07:06.170]and we'd travel across the state, we like to drive.
[00:07:08.850]And so we'd stop at Chimney Rock or at Scottsbluff
[00:07:12.720]or we'd go to Pioneer Village.
[00:07:14.637]Sure, oh yeah.
[00:07:15.470]We just did a lot of things all across our state
[00:07:17.170]so it was a good way for a suburban kid like me
[00:07:19.300]to be exposed to what's really out there,
[00:07:21.560]and the vastness of out state.
[00:07:24.950]I think that was one of the things too
[00:07:27.360]that has all this you know, opened my eyes
[00:07:29.680]to a different world of away from, different from,
[00:07:32.910]just the urban living.
[00:07:36.630]Also, we had a restaurant.
[00:07:38.345]Really? We had a restaurant.
[00:07:39.727]Right, yeah. In a little town (laughs).
[00:07:41.561]I wanted you to tell that story, yeah.
[00:07:42.690]Yeah, my husband and I actually had a restaurant
[00:07:44.950]a few years ago in Murray, Nebraska.
[00:07:48.050]And it was a really great experience
[00:07:50.190]I loved the small town life, I loved the people,
[00:07:53.850]I loved engaging over coffee with the guys
[00:07:56.100]who come to play cards,
[00:07:57.290]you know it was just a really neat experience.
[00:08:00.420]So coming to The Rural Forum and participating
[00:08:03.130]in Rural Futures for me was not just about the passion
[00:08:07.160]that I have for improving health
[00:08:08.650]but it's about improving communities
[00:08:10.360]and improving the social structures that create
[00:08:13.070]opportunities for a better life for everyone.
[00:08:15.530]Listen, I think this is an important story
[00:08:17.540]that I was hoping we could touch on with you today.
[00:08:22.810]Since you and I first met at that forum
[00:08:25.750]The Rural Futures Institute is actually done a number
[00:08:28.380]of projects with faculty, researchers, students,
[00:08:32.640]and others at the University of Nebraska Medical Center
[00:08:35.620]focused on rural communities.
[00:08:37.340]I think a lot of people think of the Med Center
[00:08:39.790]as tall buildings, the Buffett Cancer Center,
[00:08:44.170]Ebola work that they've done, all of those sorts of things
[00:08:47.660]that they think of as being confined on their campuses
[00:08:51.520]in Omaha, but the fact is the Med Center
[00:08:55.010]has a state wide mission
[00:08:58.530]that reaches to faculty,
[00:09:01.890]students, staff, others throughout the center.
[00:09:06.570]You are an embodiment of that as you just demonstrated.
[00:09:10.280]Can you talk just a little bit about that
[00:09:12.450]that broader mission that I think a lot of people
[00:09:15.270]don't realize exists.
[00:09:16.670]Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head Chuck.
[00:09:19.190]At the Med Center at UNMC we view our campus
[00:09:22.220]as 500 miles wide, we really are one of those
[00:09:25.980]state institutions that tries to touch everybody
[00:09:28.870]in the state of Nebraska, so we're committed
[00:09:31.300]not just to the Omaha area but we also have actual physical
[00:09:34.730]campuses on Lincoln, in Norfolk,
[00:09:37.750]in Kearney, and in Scottsbluff.
[00:09:40.470]We are committed as I said to the health and wellbeing
[00:09:43.390]of the people of the state of Nebraska,
[00:09:45.510]so we're trying to grow the next generation
[00:09:47.940]of health professionals and also providing
[00:09:49.810]professional development opportunities
[00:09:51.590]for those who are already working in the field,
[00:09:54.190]but we want to also be able to conduct lifesaving research
[00:09:57.210]that takes lots of people, and it's a huge endeavor
[00:10:00.380]and we do out best to be able to translate those research
[00:10:03.690]findings to actual changes in the field
[00:10:07.100]so in a way that we're delivering health care
[00:10:09.860]and services to the people all across our state,
[00:10:12.920]and I believe that UNMC is really a vital enterprise
[00:10:16.390]for our state,
[00:10:18.700]not just in terms of the research and education and service
[00:10:21.820]that we do, but we're also a huge economic generator
[00:10:24.850]for the state of Nebraska.
[00:10:26.220]Absolutely right.
[00:10:27.290]I mean it's important for people to understand a world class
[00:10:31.500]medical research enterprise that very purposefully
[00:10:35.770]connects all the way down to communities.
[00:10:38.260]Yeah, we actually have some students
[00:10:40.380]that do rural rotations,
[00:10:41.886]I don't know if--
[00:10:42.719]Yes, well absolutely.
[00:10:43.552](laughs)
[00:10:44.385]Yeah, actually we were part of that early work
[00:10:47.521]with The Rural Futures Institute
[00:10:50.060]and working with Patrick Johansson,
[00:10:52.020]and that's been a lot of fun.
[00:10:53.740]So in fact, talking about The Rural Futures Institute
[00:10:57.420]one of our direct connections with Athena
[00:11:01.040]is that two of your project proposals
[00:11:07.160]have been sponsored by The Rural Futures Institute
[00:11:10.670]focus very heavily on how do we create world communities
[00:11:16.060]that are genuinely welcoming to people who are coming
[00:11:19.690]from other countries, other cultures, other backgrounds,
[00:11:23.770]and trying to build a new home
[00:11:26.010]and a new life for themselves.
[00:11:27.710]I want you to talk a little bit about those projects Athena,
[00:11:30.820]and particularly their impact on communities.
[00:11:33.150]Yeah, absolutely. I am very happy to talk about
[00:11:35.810]those projects, I think they really do make a difference.
[00:11:41.000]The demographic composition of our state is changing
[00:11:43.760]which you know, and I think as a Rural Futures Institute
[00:11:47.330]you made a deliberate effort to provide some research
[00:11:50.370]and some service in this area.
[00:11:52.750]And a lot of times the growth in the rural communities
[00:11:55.350]in our state and in others like Nebraska
[00:11:57.540]is really dependent upon the immigrants
[00:11:59.247]that are coming into--
[00:12:00.729]It's absolutely right.
[00:12:01.562]our communities, so let me start out
[00:12:04.540]with the very first project that we did last year,
[00:12:07.290]which was The Teaching and Engagement Grant
[00:12:09.340]that we got through the RFI.
[00:12:11.470]And what we did last year is we surveyed
[00:12:16.090]200 Hispanic immigrants in two different communities
[00:12:19.310]of north east Nebraska.
[00:12:21.200]What we wanted to explore was sense of community,
[00:12:24.060]civic participation, and life satisfaction.
[00:12:27.200]And what we found is that immigrants want to feel
[00:12:32.160]a sense of community in their new place,
[00:12:35.490]and they feel that this sense of community
[00:12:37.672]is more than just a geography,
[00:12:39.660]it's about unity, it's about knowing
[00:12:41.930]that I got your back and you got mine,
[00:12:44.440]it's about participating, and being engaged.
[00:12:47.830]We found that people do participate,
[00:12:49.970]immigrants are participating in their communities.
[00:12:54.980]So for example we found that a lot of Hispanic immigrants
[00:12:58.180]were already participating in different associations,
[00:13:01.000]they are volunteering their time
[00:13:02.840]for community organizations,
[00:13:04.450]they are donating to community organizations,
[00:13:06.990]and they really are trying to be a part of the community.
[00:13:10.980]And we found that Hispanic immigrants are happy
[00:13:14.020]with the lives that they have in the rural places,
[00:13:16.880]and they expect to be there for a long time.
[00:13:19.810]So it's to our advantage to really harness this energy
[00:13:23.690]and this passion that people have as they're coming into
[00:13:26.180]a new place to be integrated into the community,
[00:13:30.380]that's what that first project was really about.
[00:13:33.580]So talking with the immigrants themselves.
[00:13:36.344]The next phase which is what we consider this year
[00:13:39.710]is really phase two of that project,
[00:13:41.710]so how do we create a welcoming community?
[00:13:45.730]So right now what we are in the process of doing
[00:13:47.880]is interviewing community leaders
[00:13:50.190]in the two communities that we've been working with
[00:13:52.740]which are Columbus and Schuyler, Nebraska,
[00:13:55.870]and talking to those community leaders
[00:13:57.900]using appreciative inquiries so trying to pull out
[00:14:01.070]those positive deviations from the norm,
[00:14:04.120]and really get to what does welcoming mean?
[00:14:07.230]And what have you heard that worked in other places?
[00:14:09.630]What are some things that you might think
[00:14:11.270]could work in your community?
[00:14:12.630]And how do we create that spark or that tipping point
[00:14:16.010]to get communities to do those types of activities?
[00:14:20.110]We really think that
[00:14:23.370]at least the two communities where were working
[00:14:26.270]they're hungry, the communities are hungry
[00:14:29.460]for having diverse and inclusive leadership.
[00:14:32.090]We just started doing interviews this week in Columbus
[00:14:34.570]and I can tell you from the three interviews that we did
[00:14:36.890]so far, in every interview we heard that we really need
[00:14:41.010]to focus on growing a diverse leadership pipeline.
[00:14:44.680]So I think this idea of diversity inclusion
[00:14:46.980]is on the minds of community leaders
[00:14:48.850]and I think part of what we can do
[00:14:50.540]as the University of Nebraska is to give tools
[00:14:54.370]to communities, to build capacities,
[00:14:56.510]so that they can implement programs, or structures,
[00:14:59.640]or policies that really help to make
[00:15:01.940]that diversity inclusion a reality.
[00:15:04.660]I have to tell you that has been a real eye opener
[00:15:07.320]and a pleasant surprise in the communities where we work
[00:15:11.800]with our forms, with other engagements we've had
[00:15:15.490]with community leaders and a variety of communities
[00:15:17.500]around the state it's not a matter of how do we stop this
[00:15:22.270]it is a matter of how do we wisely engage
[00:15:27.670]our new residents in the life of our community
[00:15:30.460]and I think that's so important.
[00:15:32.640]So listen, as you describe your projects
[00:15:36.070]I think there's a key truth in the middle of all this
[00:15:40.580]the projects that we sponsor at The Rural Futures Institute
[00:15:43.440]are designed not just to be faculty
[00:15:48.470]experts going to communities telling people
[00:15:51.460]how they aught to do things,
[00:15:52.950]it really is a matter of having people like a Athena
[00:15:57.670]who really are people people.
[00:15:59.822](laughing)
[00:16:01.530]Going out and engaging people and finding solutions
[00:16:05.730]in those communities.
[00:16:07.370]Talk a little bit about what draws you to that kind of work
[00:16:10.610]and how it's somewhat unique in academic set.
[00:16:13.940]Sure, well I think traditionally research within
[00:16:18.480]the academy has really been about data, and numbers,
[00:16:21.670]and publications, and not so much about
[00:16:23.965]the subjects or the participants.
[00:16:26.890]Even the language that we use in researches
[00:16:29.260]I think a little bit jaded,
[00:16:30.733]calling a person a subject, I don't get it.
[00:16:33.740](laughing)
[00:16:35.640]I also, I think that the university
[00:16:38.060]and universities across the country kind of get a bad rap
[00:16:42.230]for doing what people would call helicopter research.
[00:16:46.260]You come in, you fly in, you drop down,
[00:16:48.360]you do your project and you fly back out,
[00:16:50.420]nobody ever hears anything about what happened
[00:16:54.090]with the project, how to use the data,
[00:16:56.610]what the data said, nobody knows anything.
[00:16:59.540]So I really believe in a more participatory type of research
[00:17:03.250]with communities so it's a true partnership.
[00:17:06.350]Which is something that we've tried to do
[00:17:08.630]very intentionally with the projects that I work with
[00:17:11.140]is really engaging with the community up front.
[00:17:14.120]So for example with our project last year
[00:17:18.020]and developing the survey instrument that we're going to use
[00:17:21.550]with community members, we actually had
[00:17:24.100]our community partners give us feedback, tell us you know,
[00:17:27.410]do you think this question is good?
[00:17:29.160]Is the wording right?
[00:17:30.260]Is the translation correct?
[00:17:31.890]Are people going to understand it?
[00:17:33.870]Do you have other feedback?
[00:17:35.430]Help us figure out how to do focus groups,
[00:17:37.670]where should they be?
[00:17:38.503]What times should they be?
[00:17:39.400]Who are the people that we should be talking to?
[00:17:41.930]Even phase two or this years project was a growth
[00:17:44.710]out of last year because our community partners
[00:17:47.160]were talking about, "Well, we should figure out
[00:17:50.000]"what some of those leaders say."
[00:17:51.160]I said, "We can help you do that."
[00:17:52.940]So it really is more of a partnership
[00:17:55.410]and seeing where that sweet spot is
[00:17:57.210]between the research side and also what the community needs.
[00:18:01.140]I mean the end goal I think for me and for most researchers
[00:18:04.980]who are involved at the university
[00:18:06.380]is we want our research to be meaningful,
[00:18:08.630]to be relevant, and to be useful.
[00:18:10.364]To make a difference.
[00:18:11.197]Right, to make a difference.
[00:18:12.030]I mean that why I got into this,
[00:18:14.070]this is because I really believe that I can make
[00:18:15.830]a difference, and so I think that's what I really try to do.
[00:18:20.320]Even going back to year one,
[00:18:23.340]thinking about how do we disseminate
[00:18:24.960]the findings of the project
[00:18:27.750]I mean we could've easily written a journal paper, (laughs)
[00:18:30.590]which we did. Right.
[00:18:31.910]But we also wrote a community report,
[00:18:33.680]we also wrote one page fact sheets
[00:18:35.590]that are in English and Spanish
[00:18:36.950]so that the community could understand
[00:18:39.230]what the project was and what were finding
[00:18:41.640]and what we're recommending.
[00:18:43.210]And we've really I guess try to be transparent
[00:18:47.290]and share data with out partners.
[00:18:48.610]So going back, doing presentations,
[00:18:51.390]like in Columbus for example we're working with
[00:18:54.000]the Engaging Diversity Committee of The Chamber of Commerce.
[00:18:57.810]I've done lots of presentations now
[00:18:59.750]for the Chamber of Commerce and they've become
[00:19:01.510]a great partner, sending information, aside from our project
[00:19:05.900]but just things, "Hey I read this, I thought you might
[00:19:08.210]"be interested in that" and vise versa.
[00:19:11.030]Well, it's interesting to me that there seems to be
[00:19:14.370]a growing movement within the academy in this direction
[00:19:18.140]and I'm pleased that we're able to kind of spark that
[00:19:21.040]with The Rural Futures Institute.
[00:19:22.450]I had a great meeting yesterday with the Great Plains idea,
[00:19:26.480]clinical and translational research group
[00:19:29.910]and we were very focused on community advisory boards
[00:19:33.760]and getting that engagement.
[00:19:35.020]So, hats off to you for the work that you've done.
[00:19:38.880]Well listen, a year ago we launched our Rural Futures
[00:19:42.600]Fellows Program you were enthusiastically selected
[00:19:46.520]I will tell you as a member of that inaugural class,
[00:19:49.700]and as we talk about harnessing the intellectual energy
[00:19:53.450]of the University of Nebraska and its partners
[00:19:58.010]to possibly impact the future of humankind
[00:20:01.840]that sounds like a perfect job description for Athena Ramos
[00:20:05.263](laughs out loud)
[00:20:06.106]So we're just very proud to be associated with you.
[00:20:08.160]Anything you'd like to add Athena today.
[00:20:09.698]Thank you, I'm associated
[00:20:11.218]I'm glad to be associated with you and with RFI too,
[00:20:14.860]so thank you.
[00:20:15.693]Thank you. Well listen, we hope that you'll stay in touch
[00:20:18.930]with The Rural Futures Institute through Facebook, Twitter,
[00:20:23.280]Instagram, Linkedin,
[00:20:26.820]we're covering all the bases,
[00:20:29.330]and know that we will be back soon
[00:20:31.180]with another edition of Catch Up with Chuck
[00:20:33.210]where we will be talking with real people,
[00:20:35.410]looking at real places that demonstrate that
[00:20:38.220]thriving rural communities are a legitimate
[00:20:40.430]best choice for worthwhile living.
[00:20:42.250]Thanks for joining us.

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Catch Up With Chuck | Episode 12 | Athena

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