Is Regulation of Social Media Necessary to Protect Democracy?
British National Debate Vs. Nebraska Speech and Debate Team
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11/09/2017
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Since 1922, the National Communication Association has sponsored international student exchange tours for the purpose of promoting debate, discussion, and intercultural communication. Renowned for their wit, humor, and eloquence, members of the United Kingdom’s English-Speaking Union tour the United States each year, debating the best and the brightest at our institutions of higher learning. The list of tour alumni include a British Prime Minister, a Leader of the Opposition, an Archbishop of Canterbury, and many senior politicians, journalists, and businesspeople. It promises to be educational and entertaining for those interested in communication, civic engagement, international relations, and global politics. The event will be moderated by Aaron Duncan, UNL Director of Speech & Debate.
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- [00:00:00.867](upbeat music)
- [00:00:07.607]ANNOUNCER: Today, you are part
- [00:00:08.742]of an important conversation
- [00:00:09.976]about our shared future.
- [00:00:11.444]They E. N. Thompson Forum
- [00:00:13.880]on world issues explores a diversity of viewpoints
- [00:00:15.582]on international
- [00:00:18.351]and public policy issues
- [00:00:19.619]to promote understanding
- [00:00:20.620]and encourage debate across the university
- [00:00:23.089]and the state of Nebraska.
- [00:00:25.725]Since it's inception in 1988,
- [00:00:28.027]hundreds of distinguished speakers
- [00:00:30.296]have challenged and inspired us,
- [00:00:31.965]making this forum
- [00:00:34.100]one of the preeminent speaker series
- [00:00:37.103]in higher education.
- [00:00:40.006]It all started when E. N. "Jack" Thompson
- [00:00:42.542]imagined a forum on global issues
- [00:00:45.345]that would increase Nebraskan's understanding of cultures
- [00:00:48.014]and events from around the world.
- [00:00:50.884]Jack's perspective was influenced by his travels,
- [00:00:53.920]his role in helping to found the United Nations,
- [00:00:56.956]and his work at the Carnegie
- [00:00:59.125]Endowment for International Peace.
- [00:01:01.861]As president of the Cooper Foundation in Lincoln,
- [00:01:04.364]Jack pledged substantial funding to the forum
- [00:01:07.967]and the University of Nebraska
- [00:01:10.303]and Lied Center for Performing Arts
- [00:01:12.505]agreed to co-sponsor.
- [00:01:15.175]Later, Jack and his wife Katie
- [00:01:16.943]created the Thompson Family Fund
- [00:01:19.546]to support the forum and all their programs.
- [00:01:21.581]Today,
- [00:01:23.616]major support is provided
- [00:01:25.418]by the Cooper Foundation,
- [00:01:27.487]Lied Center for Performing Arts,
- [00:01:30.123]and University of Nebraska Lincoln.
- [00:01:32.158]We hope these talks sparks an exciting conversation
- [00:01:36.029]among you.
- [00:01:37.530](upbeat music)
- [00:01:40.133]And now, on with the show.
- [00:01:41.734](upbeat music)
- [00:01:49.609]MIKE ZELENY: Good evening ladies and gentlemen.
- [00:01:51.377](cheers and applause)
- [00:01:56.950]Good evening.
- [00:01:57.784]I'm Mike Zeleny
- [00:01:58.618]with the university
- [00:01:59.452]and it's my pleasure to welcome you
- [00:02:00.220]to this special Wilson dialogue.
- [00:02:02.288]Chuck and Linda created the dialogue
- [00:02:05.325]to explore both sides of an issue
- [00:02:06.426]important to Nebraska
- [00:02:07.393]and the nation.
- [00:02:08.394]Dr. Wilson, a retired cardiologist
- [00:02:10.062]served on the University of Nebraska
- [00:02:11.865]board of regents for many years
- [00:02:12.932]and also served as the medical officer
- [00:02:13.933]in the US Army.
- [00:02:16.002]Linda served on the Lincoln City Council
- [00:02:18.004]in the Public Building Commission.
- [00:02:19.739]Additional support for tonight's event
- [00:02:21.307]is provided by the E. N. Thompson Forum
- [00:02:22.876]on world issues,
- [00:02:24.110]Lied Center for Performing Arts,
- [00:02:25.612]and the Cooper Foundation.
- [00:02:27.113]We would also like to acknowledge the
- [00:02:29.315]and logistical support
- [00:02:30.650]provided by the Department of Communication Studies
- [00:02:32.652]and the Center for Civic Engagement.
- [00:02:34.554]Please join me in thanking them.
- [00:02:36.089](applause)
- [00:02:43.429]This evening we would also like to extend
- [00:02:44.597]a very special warm welcome
- [00:02:46.065]to Chancellor Green and his wife Jane,
- [00:02:47.734]to all of the Nebraska speech and debate team alumni,
- [00:02:49.669]and to all the high school
- [00:02:51.638]speech and debate students and teachers
- [00:02:53.239]who have traveled statewide to attend this event.
- [00:02:55.275]We're thrilled that you're here.
- [00:02:56.943](applause)
- [00:03:03.583]Known for their wit,
- [00:03:04.617]humor and eloquence,
- [00:03:06.185]members of the United Kingdom's
- [00:03:07.554]English Speaking Union,
- [00:03:08.988]the British National Debate Team
- [00:03:11.991]toured the United States each year
- [00:03:12.992]debating the best and brightest
- [00:03:14.093]at our institutions of higher learning.
- [00:03:15.628]The list of tour alumni is brilliant.
- [00:03:18.031]It includes a British prime minister,
- [00:03:19.566]the leader of the opposition,
- [00:03:21.100]an Archbishop of Canterbury,
- [00:03:22.402]and many senior politicians,
- [00:03:24.170]journalists, and business people.
- [00:03:25.939]The tour is coordinated by the National
- [00:03:27.373]Communications Association.
- [00:03:28.908]The Nebraska Speech and Debate Team
- [00:03:31.477]consists of 46 students
- [00:03:33.046]with majors ranging from communication
- [00:03:34.981]to political science
- [00:03:36.049]to computer science.
- [00:03:37.116]Ladies and gentlemen,
- [00:03:38.117]this is the pride of all Nebraska.
- [00:03:39.619]In January, the team earned it's sixth straight
- [00:03:41.287]big 10 championship,
- [00:03:42.655]capturing nine of 12 individual titles.
- [00:03:44.624]Let's give them a round of applause.
- [00:03:46.359](cheers and applause)
- [00:03:55.168]The deliberation this evening
- [00:03:56.169]will be moderated by Professor Aaron Duncan,
- [00:03:58.037]director of the Nebraska Speech and Debate Team.
- [00:04:00.039]After the debate,
- [00:04:01.541]you will have the opportunity
- [00:04:03.710]to vote for a winner,
- [00:04:05.244]and ask questions of the participants
- [00:04:06.346]and moderator
- [00:04:07.614]via Twitter
- [00:04:08.615]using the hashtag E. N. Thompson Forum.
- [00:04:09.582]Also, ushers will be available in the aisles
- [00:04:11.351]to collect your written questions
- [00:04:13.019]and bring them to the stage.
- [00:04:14.687]The title of this Wilson Dialogue
- [00:04:16.221]Is Regulation of Social Media Necessary
- [00:04:18.858]to Protect Democracy?
- [00:04:20.760]Now please join me in welcoming
- [00:04:21.995]the British National Debate Team
- [00:04:23.196]and the Nebraska Speech and Debate Team.
- [00:04:25.465](applause)
- [00:04:41.614]MODERATOR: Thank you.
- [00:04:42.582]It is my distinct pleasure
- [00:04:43.583]to serve as tonight's moderator
- [00:04:44.951]for the debate between
- [00:04:46.319]the University of Nebraska
- [00:04:47.420]and the British National Debate Team.
- [00:04:50.023]Please allow me to begin
- [00:04:51.124]by introducing tonight's debaters.
- [00:04:52.792]Tonight, representing the British National Debate Team,
- [00:04:55.962]here for Queen and country,
- [00:04:57.964]are Richard Hunter and Rebecca Haworth.
- [00:05:00.967](applause)
- [00:05:09.075]Richard Hunter is a native of Northern Ireland.
- [00:05:10.677]He attended college of University of St. Andrews
- [00:05:13.279]where he graduated in June with a degree
- [00:05:15.915]in modern history.
- [00:05:16.849]As a young man,
- [00:05:17.950]he twice reached the finals of the Northern Ireland
- [00:05:20.086]Schools Debating Competition.
- [00:05:22.555]He was also a finalist
- [00:05:24.157]at the John Smith Memorial Mace tournament.
- [00:05:26.626]And in 2017, he was chosen as an adjudicator
- [00:05:30.129]at the European University Debate Championships.
- [00:05:33.366]His partner,
- [00:05:34.600]Becky Haworth,
- [00:05:35.601]studied economics in Germany
- [00:05:37.370]at the University of Birmingham
- [00:05:38.905]where she graduated in 2015.
- [00:05:41.507]During her career she won five major debate tournaments,
- [00:05:44.177]made the final round at 14 national
- [00:05:47.413]and international debating competitions,
- [00:05:49.382]including the German National Debating Championship
- [00:05:52.285]in which she was debating
- [00:05:54.087]in a foreign language.
- [00:05:55.955](laughter)
- [00:05:57.790]Becky currently works
- [00:05:58.825]in a management consulting role
- [00:06:00.760]at Price, Waterhouse, Cooper.
- [00:06:02.895]The British National Team.
- [00:06:04.597](applause)
- [00:06:13.272]Their opponents for tonight's debate
- [00:06:14.373]representing the good life,
- [00:06:15.942]and the great state of Nebraska,
- [00:06:17.610](laughter)
- [00:06:19.479]are Erin Shehan and Colton White.
- [00:06:20.713]Erin Shehan is a native of Omaha, Nebraska
- [00:06:24.083]and is senior at the University of Nebraska Lincoln
- [00:06:26.819]where she majors in political science and history,
- [00:06:28.855]and has minors in communication studies,
- [00:06:30.890]global studies and humanitarian and human rights.
- [00:06:34.393]She has won numerous state,
- [00:06:35.895]national and Big 10 awards.
- [00:06:37.530]Last year she ranked
- [00:06:39.098]in the top 2% of the country
- [00:06:41.000]in persuasive speaking
- [00:06:42.368]and in the top 1%
- [00:06:43.770]in communication analysis.
- [00:06:46.005]Her partner for tonight's debate
- [00:06:47.340]is Colton White,
- [00:06:48.541]a native of Kearney, Nebraska
- [00:06:50.109]and a junior at UNL
- [00:06:52.111]majoring in English and communications,
- [00:06:54.347]secondary education.
- [00:06:56.015]Colton is the president of the UNL Debate Team.
- [00:06:58.017]Last year he was the eighth best speaker in the nation
- [00:07:01.187]at our national debate tournament,
- [00:07:02.789]and captained the team
- [00:07:04.090]to a fifth overall national ranking.
- [00:07:06.225]The topic for tonight's debate
- [00:07:09.095]Is Regulation of Social Media Necessary
- [00:07:11.597]to Protect Democracy?
- [00:07:14.367]The University of Nebraska
- [00:07:15.668]will be affirming the resolution,
- [00:07:17.270]supporting regulation.
- [00:07:18.738]The British National Team
- [00:07:20.606]will be opposing regulation.
- [00:07:22.909]The format of tonight's debate is as follows:
- [00:07:25.144]we will begin with four eight minute speeches
- [00:07:28.047]alternating between the University of Nebraska
- [00:07:30.316]and the British National Team,
- [00:07:32.251]followed by two four minute
- [00:07:34.287]summary speeches.
- [00:07:35.922]We ask that you can keep your phones on
- [00:07:38.391]and keep tweeting at us
- [00:07:39.959]at the E. N. Thompson hashtag,
- [00:07:41.694]but please turn them to silent if you do.
- [00:07:43.930]Please submit your questions
- [00:07:45.865]and please join me
- [00:07:47.233]in welcoming our first speaker
- [00:07:48.768]from the University of Nebraska,
- [00:07:50.436]Erin Shehan.
- [00:07:52.171](applause)
- [00:08:04.250]ERIN SHEHAN: Hi everyone.
- [00:08:05.251]Colton and I just want to start this debate
- [00:08:06.819]by thanking the Wilson Dialogues
- [00:08:08.754]and the E. N. Thompson Forum
- [00:08:10.456]for sponsoring the debate
- [00:08:11.624]as well as Becky and Richard
- [00:08:13.092]for coming all the way to Nebraska
- [00:08:14.560]to join us.
- [00:08:15.661]And then everyone in the audience
- [00:08:17.230]for coming tonight
- [00:08:18.264]to watch the debate.
- [00:08:19.932]We're here today to discuss the resolution,
- [00:08:21.133]regulation of social media
- [00:08:23.302]is necessary to protect democracy.
- [00:08:25.238]I'll start by establishing the following definitions
- [00:08:27.640]that we'll be using in the debate.
- [00:08:29.809]Regulation is a governmental or non-governmental
- [00:08:32.611]rule or directive.
- [00:08:34.280]This isn't just about government regulations.
- [00:08:36.349]We argue that companies can establish regulations too.
- [00:08:39.719]Social media consists of websites and applications
- [00:08:43.222]that enable users to create content.
- [00:08:45.191]But to participate in social networking.
- [00:08:47.960]So sites like Facebook and Twitter.
- [00:08:50.630]And protecting democracy entails
- [00:08:52.632]ensuring the process of free and fair elections.
- [00:08:55.401]And the principles of individual representation
- [00:08:58.204]and open deliberation.
- [00:09:00.006]We contend that democracy is not just a process.
- [00:09:03.643]It's a principle
- [00:09:05.711]and we support regulation,
- [00:09:07.380]not at this time.
- [00:09:08.781]We can't reject regulation
- [00:09:11.484]that will stop misinformation
- [00:09:13.519]just because it's regulation.
- [00:09:15.421]Therefore, we argue that we should regulate
- [00:09:18.557]social media
- [00:09:19.725]in order to make the sharing of opinions
- [00:09:22.561]more transparent.
- [00:09:23.562]We plan to achieve this in two parts.
- [00:09:24.797]First, government regulation
- [00:09:26.732]should ensure openness and transparency.
- [00:09:29.068]Second, some responsibility for social media companies
- [00:09:32.471]should be placed at the feet of social media companies
- [00:09:35.408]themselves.
- [00:09:36.642]First, government regulation needs to guarantee
- [00:09:38.945]openness and transparency from social media companies.
- [00:09:42.081]This means that these companies
- [00:09:44.283]need to open up the books to the government
- [00:09:45.651]about how their algorithms,
- [00:09:47.253]trending topics,
- [00:09:48.321]and ad revenue work.
- [00:09:49.455]Social media algorithms are really confusing.
- [00:09:52.425]They act like a magic formula
- [00:09:54.360]designed to deliver the best content first.
- [00:09:56.462]We don't know exactly how these algorithms work,
- [00:09:59.966]but we know that they prioritize revenue over truth.
- [00:10:05.037]The algorithms social media companies use
- [00:10:06.973]are designed to prioritize the user's attention
- [00:10:09.742]for as long as possible.
- [00:10:11.510]By delivering information that the users likes.
- [00:10:14.313]I like these algorithms when they give me ads
- [00:10:18.050]for garlic bread recipes and cat videos.
- [00:10:21.220]But these algorithms aren't so great
- [00:10:23.255]when they organize us
- [00:10:24.490]into continuously reinforced echo chambers
- [00:10:27.526]that are primed for exploitation.
- [00:10:28.527]Before,
- [00:10:30.229]fake news was tabloids at the grocery store checkout line.
- [00:10:33.366]Now, social media algorithms deliver fake articles,
- [00:10:37.436]like the Pope endorsing Donald Trump
- [00:10:40.072]directly to those who are prone to believing the headline.
- [00:10:44.710]Nearly one 40 million entirely false articles
- [00:10:48.014]were shared on Facebook alone
- [00:10:49.815]in the three months leading up to the 2016 election.
- [00:10:52.618]This isn't about partisanship.
- [00:10:54.854]These fake articles contain
- [00:10:56.889]objectively misleading information
- [00:10:59.692]deceiving Americans on both sides of the political spectrum.
- [00:11:04.030]Opening these algorithms to a third party
- [00:11:05.498]that isn't interested in profit
- [00:11:07.733]could alter the way that content
- [00:11:09.568]and fake news is delivered to readers.
- [00:11:12.138]The same thing is happening with trending topics
- [00:11:14.340]on sites like Facebook and Twitter.
- [00:11:16.475]Yes.
- [00:11:18.411]RICHARD HUNTER: What kind of enforcement mechanisms
- [00:11:20.146]is the government going to use
- [00:11:21.680]to enforce these regulations?
- [00:11:23.649]ERIN: So we hope that the FEC,
- [00:11:25.084]the Federal Election Commission
- [00:11:26.419]would have oversight in the same way
- [00:11:28.120]that they have oversight over things like
- [00:11:29.722]Internet and television,
- [00:11:31.757]which is something that I'll get to later in the speech.
- [00:11:34.060]So moving on,
- [00:11:35.961]the same thing has happened with trending topics
- [00:11:38.097]on sites like Facebook and Twitter.
- [00:11:39.432]So following the 2016 election,
- [00:11:41.100]Facebook admitted themselves
- [00:11:42.835]that they had over 270 million accounts
- [00:11:45.404]that were fake,
- [00:11:46.372]significantly more than they thought.
- [00:11:48.240]And on Twitter,
- [00:11:49.442]over 48 million accounts were also fake.
- [00:11:51.577]These fake accounts known as bots
- [00:11:53.679]were used during the 2016 election
- [00:11:56.048]to manipulate trending topics.
- [00:11:57.750]We need more transparency
- [00:11:59.552]about why certain things are popular.
- [00:12:01.287]Trending topics are important.
- [00:12:03.389]When information is trending,
- [00:12:05.057]it reaches new and large audiences.
- [00:12:06.992]And Google searches for the topic increases.
- [00:12:10.096]If we want social media to function as a transparent
- [00:12:12.665]and open space for the sharing of opinions,
- [00:12:15.267]the topics must be what real people
- [00:12:18.070]are actually talking about.
- [00:12:19.872]Cat videos.
- [00:12:21.640](laughter)
- [00:12:24.844]Finally, social media revenue from advertisements
- [00:12:27.079]needs to be more transparent.
- [00:12:28.881]Since 2011, Facebook has asked
- [00:12:31.450]the Federal Election Commission,
- [00:12:32.785]the agency that regulates campaign finance
- [00:12:34.353]for blanket exemptions
- [00:12:35.888]for political advertising disclosure rules.
- [00:12:37.923]These are the types of formal disclosures
- [00:12:39.859]you see on political ads on TV,
- [00:12:41.527]radio or print.
- [00:12:43.262]Informing you of who purchased the ad
- [00:12:45.498]and if it's affiliated with a candidate.
- [00:12:47.266]Due to Facebook lobbying,
- [00:12:48.567]these advertise,
- [00:12:50.503]these rules don't apply online,
- [00:12:51.570]allowing social media companies
- [00:12:53.272]to bring in a lot of money.
- [00:12:55.241]We've since learned that in the 2016 election,
- [00:12:58.110]accounts affiliated with Russia
- [00:13:00.012]spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
- [00:13:02.014]on targeted ads before the election.
- [00:13:04.049]The funding sources of these ads
- [00:13:06.418]should have been disclosed.
- [00:13:08.087]The FEC needs to accept that Facebook
- [00:13:10.789]is more than a social media site,
- [00:13:12.791]it's a media company.
- [00:13:15.528]And these ads need to be transparent.
- [00:13:17.530]Next, some responsibility for social media companies
- [00:13:21.333]should be placed at the feet
- [00:13:23.068]of social media companies themselves.
- [00:13:24.904]Both companies and us as users
- [00:13:26.739]need to take an active role
- [00:13:28.874]to fix the problems like fake news,
- [00:13:30.509]and deceptive ads.
- [00:13:31.810]We all need to take action.
- [00:13:33.746]If Ted Cruz's social media struggles
- [00:13:35.347]have taught us anything,
- [00:13:36.715](laughter)
- [00:13:38.551]sometimes the Senate can't manage their own accounts,
- [00:13:40.686]so they probably shouldn't have full control over ours.
- [00:13:44.190]Social media has already proven
- [00:13:46.926]they can control content.
- [00:13:48.994]It's just a matter of if they do it for good
- [00:13:50.896]or for bad.
- [00:13:52.364]And we hope they do it for good.
- [00:13:54.567]First, social media companies
- [00:13:56.435]should identify and eliminate fake accounts.
- [00:13:58.370]Bots on social media can gain a big following.
- [00:14:01.507]During the 2016 election,
- [00:14:04.643]a Russian backed Twitter account
- [00:14:05.678]claiming to be the Tennessee GOP
- [00:14:06.612]gained over 150 thousand followers.
- [00:14:08.681]During it's tenure,
- [00:14:10.416]it was retweeted by Kellyanne Conway
- [00:14:12.518]and Donald Trump Jr.
- [00:14:13.886]The real Tennessee GOP account
- [00:14:16.255]only had 13,000 followers.
- [00:14:18.624]Other fake accounts targeted African American women
- [00:14:21.393]telling them they could vote from home
- [00:14:23.662]on election day,
- [00:14:25.264]and giving them a completely fake number to use.
- [00:14:27.433]Fake Twitter accounts tweeted over 1.4 million times
- [00:14:32.805]in the span of just over two months.
- [00:14:35.374]Despite these fake accounts being reported many times,
- [00:14:38.210]they weren't removed by Twitter.
- [00:14:40.846]Social media can't be an open space
- [00:14:43.983]for the sharing of ideas
- [00:14:45.150]if certain vulnerable groups
- [00:14:46.685]are targeted with false information.
- [00:14:49.588]Social media must direct more resources
- [00:14:51.090]to removing fake accounts,
- [00:14:53.459]and tagging them as suspicious.
- [00:14:56.028]Additionally,
- [00:14:59.365]we hope for a transparent system
- [00:15:00.466]of flagging news articles
- [00:15:01.500]that involves user participation.
- [00:15:03.235]We know that fake news is widespread
- [00:15:05.571]and it causes a lot of confusion.
- [00:15:07.606]64% of Americans
- [00:15:10.209]say fake news causes them a lot of confusion
- [00:15:13.245]about basic facts about politics and current events.
- [00:15:16.315]That's a huge problem
- [00:15:18.050]and social media companies need to be accountable.
- [00:15:20.452]We can all help with this.
- [00:15:22.554]We hope for a system in which
- [00:15:24.690]social media sites
- [00:15:25.691]tag the location of origin for articles
- [00:15:27.192]and allow users to tag information
- [00:15:29.561]as reliable or not.
- [00:15:31.363]From there, disputed information
- [00:15:32.965]can be tagged as such
- [00:15:34.066]until fact checkers have the opportunity
- [00:15:35.768]to evaluate.
- [00:15:36.769]Giving users transparent and clear information
- [00:15:39.204]can eliminate some of the issues
- [00:15:40.439]we experience relating to fake news.
- [00:15:43.442]We are arguing in favor of the resolution,
- [00:15:46.078]regulation of social media
- [00:15:47.746]is necessary to protect democracy,
- [00:15:49.548]not to regulate free speech,
- [00:15:51.550]but instead to allow social media
- [00:15:53.585]to become a more transparent platform.
- [00:15:55.454]Social media has given
- [00:15:58.090]every individual the power to act
- [00:16:00.025]as a journalist,
- [00:16:01.026]and an advocate,
- [00:16:01.960]and with this power comes a new set of responsibilities.
- [00:16:05.497]Regulation allows just this,
- [00:16:08.233]a responsible
- [00:16:10.035]and equitable exchange of information.
- [00:16:12.705]Therefore, I urge you all to support the affirmative.
- [00:16:17.943](applause)
- [00:16:43.502]REBECCA HAWORTH: Before I start my speech,
- [00:16:44.536]I'd just like to thank everybody
- [00:16:45.637]who's made this evening possible.
- [00:16:46.972]We're thousands of miles away from home
- [00:16:48.107]and we feel like we have
- [00:16:49.508]so many adopted friends
- [00:16:50.542]from across the pond.
- [00:16:52.177]So thank you
- [00:16:53.178]honestly so much for having us here tonight.
- [00:16:55.280]So, social media provides a really unique platform
- [00:16:58.984]and there's a couple of benefits of this.
- [00:17:01.587]The first benefit of this is entertainment.
- [00:17:04.522]So if anybody's ever seen the YouTube video
- [00:17:06.258]"Charlie Bit My Finger"
- [00:17:07.992]if you haven't seen it,
- [00:17:09.228]I'd highly recommend.
- [00:17:10.496]The second benefit is in terms of news, right.
- [00:17:11.829]So a lot of people log on to Facebook
- [00:17:14.800]and they get a load of diverse
- [00:17:16.635]sources of information
- [00:17:18.103]and different viewpoints.
- [00:17:19.171]And we hear this algorithm touched on
- [00:17:20.571]by the other side.
- [00:17:21.906]We think actually the way that your news feed works
- [00:17:24.076]is that you see content from people
- [00:17:25.944]that you're friends with,
- [00:17:27.212]and note that typically we can be friends with people
- [00:17:30.082]who have different views that we have, right.
- [00:17:31.417]Or say if I really love garlic bread recipes, right,
- [00:17:34.520]I can up vote garlic bread recipes
- [00:17:36.755]and still see news articles
- [00:17:38.690]from different perspectives,
- [00:17:40.092]things that I never thought about before.
- [00:17:41.693]We think the social media has revolutionized
- [00:17:43.462]the free and open exchange of ideas.
- [00:17:45.631]Think if you wake up in Virginia this morning,
- [00:17:48.333]you'd have reminder saying have you voted yet
- [00:17:49.968]in the election?
- [00:17:51.703]You know we hear these arguments about how social media
- [00:17:55.073]has been really disempowering
- [00:17:56.074]for minority groups,
- [00:17:57.309]but actually we think it's a huge tool of empowerment
- [00:17:58.911]to encourage people to engage politically.
- [00:18:00.779]We think that's really, really valuable.
- [00:18:03.182]COLTON WHITE: Question.
- [00:18:04.216]REBECCA: Two points from you,
- [00:18:05.184]I'll take you later.
- [00:18:06.151]Two points from you inside opposition today.
- [00:18:07.152]Firstly, how the social media,
- [00:18:08.153]when it is unregulated,
- [00:18:10.289]is a necessary tool
- [00:18:11.623]to empower people
- [00:18:12.758]in a democracy.
- [00:18:13.759]And secondly, how regulation excludes
- [00:18:16.094]a healthy debate in a democracy.
- [00:18:18.263]But first of all,
- [00:18:19.298]some responses to what we've heard
- [00:18:20.499]from the other side.
- [00:18:22.201]So,
- [00:18:23.202]note we had this idea of
- [00:18:27.039]algorithms
- [00:18:28.006]prioritize revenue over truth.
- [00:18:29.708]Say, point one,
- [00:18:31.577]try and push past the rhetoric behind this point, right,
- [00:18:34.213]and see algorithms are complex.
- [00:18:36.114]They work as explained,
- [00:18:37.616]and if this team is trying to solve
- [00:18:39.685]echo chambers as they exist,
- [00:18:41.153]they have a lot more work to do.
- [00:18:42.521]No social media doesn't create
- [00:18:44.056]echo chambers,
- [00:18:45.123]and so far as we'd like to speak to people
- [00:18:46.992]who's views agree with our own,
- [00:18:48.560]we do that in real life anyway.
- [00:18:50.529]But social media allows us to connect,
- [00:18:52.531]to have issues going viral that we've never heard of before
- [00:18:54.933]and actually encourages
- [00:18:56.401]more exchange of ideas.
- [00:18:57.569]Then they say that the company
- [00:18:59.271]should be establishing regulation themselves,
- [00:19:01.440]but we think we've seen an organic development
- [00:19:03.642]of processes
- [00:19:04.676]to push out some of the problems
- [00:19:06.512]they that they talk about, right,
- [00:19:07.513]which reflects the development of social media
- [00:19:08.881]as a platform
- [00:19:10.249]in its burgeoning maturity.
- [00:19:11.950]So a trending news icon on the top right of your screen,
- [00:19:14.419]they started now only having
- [00:19:16.221]articles trend that are from reputable news sources
- [00:19:19.258]moving away from this idea of fake news.
- [00:19:21.293]Note the fake news is basically
- [00:19:23.896]become a catchphrase
- [00:19:25.564]like a superhero catchphrase
- [00:19:27.199]that we say, right.
- [00:19:28.166]Actually, fake news
- [00:19:29.601]can be used as a tool
- [00:19:31.637]from people who are in power
- [00:19:33.405]to de-legitimatize
- [00:19:34.873]news websites
- [00:19:36.074]that say or challenge issues
- [00:19:37.976]that the administration isn't comfortable with.
- [00:19:40.579]We think it's important that we're critical
- [00:19:42.247]about this concept
- [00:19:43.448]and that we challenge
- [00:19:44.750]this where it appears.
- [00:19:46.184]We get the example of saying, you know,
- [00:19:47.719]previously you would have fake news in a grocery store,
- [00:19:50.355]but now you have it online.
- [00:19:51.857]When we say actually having it online is better
- [00:19:53.425]because you can instantaneously call it out.
- [00:19:55.294]Whereas in conventional media,
- [00:19:57.229]you'd have an apology
- [00:19:58.297]on page 79 of next weeks
- [00:20:00.499]edition, right.
- [00:20:01.934]Then we get this idea that
- [00:20:03.702]transparency is super important
- [00:20:05.871]and actually
- [00:20:07.406]that social media tipped the balance
- [00:20:09.107]of the election recently.
- [00:20:10.175]We say A, there is no empirical evidence
- [00:20:11.877]that it changed the outcome of the election.
- [00:20:13.745]There are a number of legitimate concerns
- [00:20:15.547]as to why certain people will have voted
- [00:20:17.316]for different candidates.
- [00:20:18.917]That issue hasn't been resolved.
- [00:20:20.752]Note that also we have more
- [00:20:22.521]optimism about people's ability to critically discern,
- [00:20:24.756]to note there's loads of programs
- [00:20:26.858]in high schools and colleges across the country
- [00:20:28.994]teaching people how to see
- [00:20:30.929]what's fake news and what's not.
- [00:20:32.664]That you have more independent fact checking agencies
- [00:20:33.966]that are able to call that out
- [00:20:35.968]on the system.
- [00:20:37.069]We think that fake news can sometimes be used
- [00:20:38.937]as a tool for distraction
- [00:20:40.238]and it's really important that that doesn't drive
- [00:20:41.840]these policy decisions.
- [00:20:43.575]Point one, why
- [00:20:45.277]unregulated social media
- [00:20:47.079]is so important to empower people.
- [00:20:48.380]We think that democracy is about
- [00:20:49.948]expressing your ideas.
- [00:20:50.983]And groups expressing their values
- [00:20:53.051]and their priorities,
- [00:20:54.019]but we can only express our opinions
- [00:20:55.687]on the infrastructure
- [00:20:56.855]that we're provided.
- [00:20:57.923]When you don't have social media,
- [00:20:59.691]when you don't have a free social media,
- [00:21:01.627]people have to take their voices elsewhere.
- [00:21:03.595]So when you have the Black Lives Matter group
- [00:21:06.231]who want to
- [00:21:07.366]spread awareness of police brutal,
- [00:21:09.401]excuse me,
- [00:21:10.902]police brutality,
- [00:21:11.937]social media,
- [00:21:12.938]when it's not regulated
- [00:21:14.072]is a powerful way that they control
- [00:21:15.841]their own story
- [00:21:17.109]and tell of their own troubles
- [00:21:18.577]with their own voices
- [00:21:19.611]so they can share a video,
- [00:21:20.946]so it can go viral,
- [00:21:22.080]so they can galvanize support
- [00:21:23.548]for their political issue.
- [00:21:25.117]COLTON: Question.
- [00:21:26.184]REBECCA: I'll take you at the end of this point.
- [00:21:27.252]And without social media,
- [00:21:29.688]you get called out for being unpatriotic,
- [00:21:32.858]for you know,
- [00:21:33.925]the protect and serve mentality
- [00:21:35.227]of the police force.
- [00:21:36.528]We think that
- [00:21:37.562]you need a critical mass for these groups
- [00:21:40.198]to gain progress
- [00:21:41.199]and it's uniquely visceral on social media
- [00:21:43.568]when you're able to share these videos.
- [00:21:45.437]We think that regulation is necessarily
- [00:21:47.406]always going to be political,
- [00:21:49.708]as I'll explain in my second point.
- [00:21:51.043]And when you don't have regulation on social media,
- [00:21:53.378]you give these people a voice.
- [00:21:54.646]You let them communicate directly to other citizens
- [00:21:57.315]where conventional media
- [00:21:58.850]will shut them out.
- [00:22:01.086]It's really important in a democracy
- [00:22:03.355]that we have a balance of different ideas.
- [00:22:05.390]So even if it's not an opinion that you agree with,
- [00:22:07.859]it's important to have that counterbalance.
- [00:22:09.961]And social media being free and open
- [00:22:12.397]for everybody to use it,
- [00:22:13.832]and for nobody to have a rule book
- [00:22:15.367]and say what's allowed
- [00:22:16.468]and what's not allowed,
- [00:22:17.469]is a really important for these people
- [00:22:19.037]to get their points of view across.
- [00:22:20.138]That matters A, for the people who are in these
- [00:22:22.841]political groups,
- [00:22:24.009]who want to get their points of view across,
- [00:22:25.644]but B, for the average citizen
- [00:22:27.145]who needs to inform themselves
- [00:22:29.047]about what matters in society,
- [00:22:30.916]and about the dignity
- [00:22:32.250]and the democracy of their society.
- [00:22:34.419]I'll take your question, yeah.
- [00:22:35.787]COLTON: Yes, so
- [00:22:36.822]how are groups like Black Lives Matter
- [00:22:38.757]supposed to benefit from social media
- [00:22:42.461]when fake news articles about them
- [00:22:43.462]are being spread
- [00:22:44.830]and lies being perpetuated?
- [00:22:45.831]REBECCA: So people are capable of critical thought.
- [00:22:49.101]As I said in my rebuttal,
- [00:22:51.169]there are a number of programs
- [00:22:52.437]helping people discern what is fake news
- [00:22:54.005]and what's not.
- [00:22:55.407]There's also multiple different sources
- [00:22:57.709]that you have on social media
- [00:22:59.311]that can call out instantaneously
- [00:23:01.012]when something is incorrect, right.
- [00:23:03.181]Note the comparison is having to go to
- [00:23:05.417]conventional media
- [00:23:06.518]with this typically
- [00:23:07.786]racist reporting of crimes,
- [00:23:09.254]when you have a terrorist incident
- [00:23:10.856]with somebody who's white,
- [00:23:12.057]or somebody who's a person of color
- [00:23:13.325]is reported on in different ways.
- [00:23:14.860]And we think social media
- [00:23:16.094]is really important for them
- [00:23:17.429]to get their views across directly.
- [00:23:18.430]Secondly, I'm gonna talk to you about regulation.
- [00:23:20.499]So,
- [00:23:21.466]it's very, very difficult
- [00:23:22.934]to pick any issue which is not political
- [00:23:25.103]or politicized,
- [00:23:27.038]i.e. it's impacting people's lives.
- [00:23:28.774]And we think the criteria
- [00:23:29.775]for what's described as fake news
- [00:23:32.711]is necessarily going to vary
- [00:23:34.312]depending on the priorities of the current administration.
- [00:23:37.015]Note the tendency to term something fake news
- [00:23:39.951]if it's an inconvenient challenge
- [00:23:41.720]to current administration.
- [00:23:43.922]We think that
- [00:23:44.890]not having regulation is really important
- [00:23:48.260]to ensure this free
- [00:23:49.494]exchange of ideas.
- [00:23:50.695]And actually,
- [00:23:51.730]it's an important mechanism of accountability
- [00:23:54.432]to make sure that the government is listening
- [00:23:56.768]to everybody,
- [00:23:57.736]even when those views
- [00:23:59.171]are inconvenient.
- [00:24:00.505]So the example that we would draw to
- [00:24:02.274]is recently Google
- [00:24:03.475]tried out some different algorithms
- [00:24:05.777]as to how their search engines work.
- [00:24:07.245]And they introduced a change in the algorithm
- [00:24:10.215]that was due to remove
- [00:24:11.316]anything that was deemed offensive,
- [00:24:13.418]downright false,
- [00:24:14.452]or blatantly misleading.
- [00:24:15.954]And studies have shown that
- [00:24:17.189]the conversion rate to websites
- [00:24:18.824]that contained critique of
- [00:24:20.292]of wars that American was engaging with abroad
- [00:24:23.528]had fallen by 70%.
- [00:24:26.131]Think that these opinions,
- [00:24:28.200]whether you agree with them or not,
- [00:24:30.035]are a fundamental part
- [00:24:31.603]of a healthy democracy
- [00:24:33.238]and that governments will always have an incentive
- [00:24:35.407]to set up a system
- [00:24:36.708]which downplays
- [00:24:38.143]elements of policy that are inconvenient the them
- [00:24:40.579]and the appalling words,
- [00:24:42.280]and they're less likely to get their senior politicians
- [00:24:43.815]reelected.
- [00:24:45.517]And we think that these inconvenient topics
- [00:24:47.619]uniquely come out in social media.
- [00:24:49.888]And so regulation would stifle them.
- [00:24:52.324]This is even more important
- [00:24:53.859]when you think about countries that claim to be democracies
- [00:24:55.794]but actually actively infringe
- [00:24:58.296]on press freedoms.
- [00:24:59.631]So places like Turkey and Russia
- [00:25:01.266]that claim to be democracies
- [00:25:03.034]but would love to use this as a tool
- [00:25:04.636]to push down dissenting voices
- [00:25:06.304]and stop people
- [00:25:07.606]from claiming,
- [00:25:08.573]claiming what they need
- [00:25:11.042]in terms of political change.
- [00:25:12.344]Look, this is really important for groups
- [00:25:13.912]who experience structural violence from the government
- [00:25:15.380]and this is so important for the average voter.
- [00:25:17.249]We think regulation cannot work
- [00:25:18.950]in the democracy that we have today.
- [00:25:20.785]Very proud to oppose.
- [00:25:22.587]Thank you.
- [00:25:23.588](applause)
- [00:25:46.478]COLTON WHITE: So, before I begin,
- [00:25:47.612]I would like to extend the thanks
- [00:25:49.948]that we've seen so far.
- [00:25:51.182]First to the institutions
- [00:25:52.484]that made this possible,
- [00:25:53.752]such as the E. N. Thompson Forum,
- [00:25:55.787]the Wilson Dialogue,
- [00:25:57.255]the UNL Department of Communications Studies
- [00:25:59.758]and the Lied Center in which we are now.
- [00:26:02.594]I would also like to extend the thanks again
- [00:26:05.063]to Becky and Richard for coming all the this way
- [00:26:07.399]to debate us,
- [00:26:08.767]and again to all of you
- [00:26:10.402]for being here
- [00:26:11.736]to hear this debate.
- [00:26:13.104]So, to begin,
- [00:26:15.340]the American founding father,
- [00:26:17.509]and more recently,
- [00:26:19.210]Broadway rapper,
- [00:26:20.245]Alexander Hamilton,
- [00:26:21.379]once stated (laughter)
- [00:26:22.681]"Unless your government is respectable,
- [00:26:25.417]"foreigners will invade your rights,
- [00:26:27.752]"even to observe neutrality,
- [00:26:29.921]"you must have a strong government."
- [00:26:32.157]Just as Hamilton
- [00:26:33.558]recognized the role of government in preserving democracy,
- [00:26:36.261]we support regulating social media
- [00:26:39.497]to preserve democracy
- [00:26:40.765]and preserve truth.
- [00:26:43.001]I would like to highlight three main points
- [00:26:45.704]that have emerged from the debate so far.
- [00:26:48.340]The first of which,
- [00:26:50.308]there is a clear difference
- [00:26:52.877]between regulation
- [00:26:53.945]and censorship.
- [00:26:56.114]The regulations that Erin and I propose
- [00:26:58.550]are designed to increase transparency.
- [00:27:00.852]It's not about regulating what people can say.
- [00:27:05.123]It's about regulating what companies can hide
- [00:27:08.426]and what different organizations,
- [00:27:10.528]like the Kremlin,
- [00:27:12.030]are able to hide from the American people.
- [00:27:15.300]We can see this in how American broadcasting laws work.
- [00:27:19.337]So for example,
- [00:27:21.039]if there are two political candidates
- [00:27:22.941]going against each other in the American political system,
- [00:27:25.477]and they take out advertisements on radio,
- [00:27:29.180]or they go on to debate on radio,
- [00:27:31.750]under US broadcasting law,
- [00:27:34.119]they need to have equal access to time.
- [00:27:37.055]We can see how this is really important
- [00:27:39.190]because if one side gets 10 minutes,
- [00:27:41.192]and the other side only gets one,
- [00:27:43.161]that's not a fair dialogue.
- [00:27:44.496]Erin and I would like to take this opportunity
- [00:27:47.265]to buy up all of our opponents' speech time.
- [00:27:50.201](laughter)
- [00:27:52.570]Another example
- [00:27:53.571]is how
- [00:27:54.906]underneath current law
- [00:27:56.408]we need to disclose when
- [00:27:58.710]who paid for certain television ads.
- [00:28:00.678]So for example,
- [00:28:02.313]if the
- [00:28:04.215]partisan organization pays for a TV ad,
- [00:28:07.519]we should be able to know.
- [00:28:09.554]That doesn't mean that that ad shouldn't run,
- [00:28:12.257]but just that we should have an open
- [00:28:14.459]deliberation and discussion
- [00:28:15.994]about whether or not that's credible,
- [00:28:18.129]or whether or not we can trust it.
- [00:28:20.365]For example, I hear the Brits are being funded by Facebook
- [00:28:23.935]for this event.
- [00:28:26.738]Basically, we just need to update our laws
- [00:28:29.874]for democracy in the 21st century.
- [00:28:31.376]Our opponents may start to frame this debate as
- [00:28:34.112]tyranny is just around the corner
- [00:28:36.681]if we let
- [00:28:38.049]administrations get control
- [00:28:39.784]of how we
- [00:28:41.252]handle our democracy.
- [00:28:42.620]But that's not what we're saying.
- [00:28:44.656]We're saying that tyranny is more likely
- [00:28:47.125]around the corner
- [00:28:48.326]when we don't have the information that's necessary.
- [00:28:51.429]REBECCA: Question.
- [00:28:52.597]COLTON: I will take your question.
- [00:28:53.598]REBECCA: So can you respond to the fact
- [00:28:54.599]that you claim
- [00:28:55.700]that we should regulate social media
- [00:28:57.368]like conventional media,
- [00:28:58.670]but in conventional media,
- [00:29:00.004]the broadcaster would choose which programs are run,
- [00:29:02.107]whereas social media has to be different
- [00:29:04.809]because users from the ground up
- [00:29:07.112]will determine what content is projected.
- [00:29:09.380]COLTON: You seem to
- [00:29:10.548]have an idea that social media companies
- [00:29:13.351]are completely neutral platform.
- [00:29:14.986]But what we're saying is that
- [00:29:16.654]they aren't necessarily so.
- [00:29:18.123]For example, we don't know how the algorithms work
- [00:29:21.559]in so far as
- [00:29:23.128]what material we see.
- [00:29:25.296]These are not a neutral platform.
- [00:29:27.031]That's what Facebook, Twitter
- [00:29:28.633]and other social media companies are saying,
- [00:29:30.034]but we don't know if that's entirely true.
- [00:29:31.936]So, our,
- [00:29:34.439]our opponents are saying that
- [00:29:36.374]there can be political,
- [00:29:37.876]politicized regulation
- [00:29:39.277]and that this criteria can be bad.
- [00:29:40.745]We agree, which is why we're saying that
- [00:29:43.114]we should make things more transparent instead.
- [00:29:45.750]So moving on to our second point,
- [00:29:48.786]regulating social media
- [00:29:51.189]can help move us more toward
- [00:29:53.291]a more truthful society.
- [00:29:55.693]The lifeblood of democracy
- [00:29:58.263]is free and open information.
- [00:30:00.765]In today's social media,
- [00:30:03.635]truth is being replaced with lies.
- [00:30:06.070]This isn't a left or a right issue
- [00:30:09.774]in terms of our political spectrum.
- [00:30:11.676]It's a truth or falsity issue.
- [00:30:14.412]And that is how you should think about the debate today.
- [00:30:16.681]According to the Washington Post,
- [00:30:19.817]and other media outlets,
- [00:30:21.853]over 100 and 50 million Americans
- [00:30:24.956]were reached by Russian documents
- [00:30:27.292]during this past election.
- [00:30:29.661]That is more
- [00:30:31.062]than the total number of people
- [00:30:33.364]who voted, period.
- [00:30:36.701]Now we don't know for sure
- [00:30:37.902]how many people were persuaded
- [00:30:39.571]by one message or another,
- [00:30:41.139]but we know that this is influencing our elections.
- [00:30:45.143]So, our opponents so far in this debate
- [00:30:47.946]have come up with the notion that
- [00:30:50.014]social media,
- [00:30:51.316]like Facebook and Twitter,
- [00:30:52.850]is a great place to voice political discussions and debates.
- [00:30:56.421]What is your secret?
- [00:30:59.357]I have not had a single good political discussion
- [00:31:02.827]on Facebook.
- [00:31:04.462](laughter)
- [00:31:06.497]In fact, most of the time,
- [00:31:07.599]it's just someone saying
- [00:31:08.900]what is this curly headed dude yelling about?
- [00:31:10.969]What is his problem?
- [00:31:12.770]That's the kind of political discussion
- [00:31:14.739]that happens on Facebook.
- [00:31:16.140]Additionally, while they may say that
- [00:31:19.043]sure, we may associate
- [00:31:20.445]with people from our side of the political spectrum,
- [00:31:22.580]how Facebook currently operates is
- [00:31:25.450]if you like a page
- [00:31:26.951]that spreads fake news
- [00:31:28.419]or supports one side of a political issue,
- [00:31:30.622]you're more likely to see
- [00:31:32.323]other things
- [00:31:33.491]that support that viewpoint as well.
- [00:31:36.027]That's the key difference between
- [00:31:37.929]debating within social media
- [00:31:40.398]and debating within real life,
- [00:31:42.400]where you have to engage people.
- [00:31:44.035]And it's not like suddenly you talk to someone
- [00:31:46.437]with a political viewpoint,
- [00:31:47.505]and 10 more of those people
- [00:31:49.173]suddenly exist out of thin air.
- [00:31:51.242]But that's what social media does.
- [00:31:52.810]And they bring up the example of Black Lives Matter.
- [00:31:55.013]However, we can see how these organizations
- [00:31:57.081]can be just as harmed by social media,
- [00:32:00.618]or any left or right political issue
- [00:32:03.288]when we can see fake articles spreading
- [00:32:05.990]about those organizations.
- [00:32:08.059]How is someone supposed to be open to a new political idea
- [00:32:11.596]when there are fake news articles
- [00:32:13.364]being shared about them
- [00:32:14.499]that say that
- [00:32:15.533]this group promotes violence
- [00:32:16.567]in a way in which they did not.
- [00:32:17.835]Or, any other number of fabrications that can occur.
- [00:32:21.072]We would like to show how regulating social media
- [00:32:23.975]is the only way to move toward a more truthful society,
- [00:32:26.878]and therefore a more deliberate democracy.
- [00:32:29.847]Lastly, we would like to point out that
- [00:32:33.184]in the status quo,
- [00:32:34.619]social media companies can willfully control our democracy.
- [00:32:38.356]As Erin explained on the first speech,
- [00:32:41.025]regulation should open the books
- [00:32:43.461]of social media companies.
- [00:32:45.229]Social media companies are powerful.
- [00:32:47.865]Only a few key players,
- [00:32:49.801]such as Google, Facebook,
- [00:32:51.135]and Twitter
- [00:32:52.770]hold all of the cards.
- [00:32:54.472]They are not the innocent players
- [00:32:56.607]in our society.
- [00:32:58.810]Our opponents talk about sources
- [00:33:01.879]and how
- [00:33:03.014]we need to be able to
- [00:33:04.615]discuss whether or not,
- [00:33:06.584]or that people are always able to determine
- [00:33:08.753]whether or not a source is credible or not credible.
- [00:33:11.556]While we can certainly say that people have
- [00:33:15.660]critical thinking skills,
- [00:33:16.961]and that we should encourage this,
- [00:33:18.429]this is not what social media does.
- [00:33:21.065]As we pointed out in the last speech,
- [00:33:22.633]we are more likely
- [00:33:24.035]to be able to
- [00:33:25.136]be confused about what sources are saying.
- [00:33:28.239]That's what Erin proposed in our first speech.
- [00:33:30.475]Social media actually increases the confusion over sources.
- [00:33:33.644]It muddies the waters of the debate.
- [00:33:35.847]It doesn't clarify them,
- [00:33:37.181]which is why we need to have
- [00:33:39.617]social media companies
- [00:33:40.952]take their role seriously
- [00:33:43.554]in our society,
- [00:33:45.223]and take down fake accounts that are saying
- [00:33:47.191]that
- [00:33:48.226]for example,
- [00:33:49.427]Donald Trump was endorsed by the Pope,
- [00:33:52.196]or that
- [00:33:53.331]Hillary Clinton has a kill list,
- [00:33:56.367]or any other number of
- [00:33:57.869]certain examples
- [00:33:59.704]that we have from this last
- [00:34:01.406]organization.
- [00:34:03.541]So to close,
- [00:34:05.109]as Thomas Jefferson,
- [00:34:06.878]another Broadway star,
- [00:34:08.478]once stated,
- [00:34:10.014]"The end of democracy,
- [00:34:11.516]"and the defeat of the American revolution,
- [00:34:14.385]"will occur
- [00:34:15.453]"when government falls into the hands
- [00:34:17.755]"of moneyed corporations."
- [00:34:20.257]Well, Jefferson probably didn't say that on Twitter,
- [00:34:23.194]we can see that
- [00:34:25.362]unchecked social media
- [00:34:27.165]can be a threat to democracy
- [00:34:29.434]in the United States
- [00:34:31.235]and abroad.
- [00:34:33.271]In order to move towards a more truthful society,
- [00:34:35.739]we urge you to support the affirmative.
- [00:34:38.876](applause)
- [00:35:00.264]RICHARD HUNTER: So finally, as the fourth speaker,
- [00:35:02.033]I would like to echo all of the thanks
- [00:35:03.901]that have been given so far.
- [00:35:05.136]I know it's very repetitive, but,
- [00:35:06.337]me and Becky as we've come here,
- [00:35:08.372]have definitely felt like honorary Cornhuskers.
- [00:35:10.374]Thank you very much.
- [00:35:11.943](laughter)
- [00:35:13.144]I will not as a British person
- [00:35:14.378]with a funny accent,
- [00:35:15.680]be quoting any founding fathers in this speech.
- [00:35:18.483](laughter)
- [00:35:21.118]Sorry, about that,
- [00:35:22.720]but as a history student,
- [00:35:24.055]I am aware of certain historical milestones.
- [00:35:26.290]And I can't help but escape the knowledge
- [00:35:28.926]that five hundred years
- [00:35:30.761]and one week ago,
- [00:35:32.196]Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses
- [00:35:34.499]to a church door in Wittenberg,
- [00:35:35.967]starting what was known as the European Reformation,
- [00:35:39.270]which changed the face of Europe forever.
- [00:35:41.873]He did that,
- [00:35:42.907]and his teachings reached a wide audience
- [00:35:45.076]because he used the printing press.
- [00:35:47.512]He was able to create pamphlets and documents
- [00:35:49.780]that were
- [00:35:50.815]circulated widely and people read them
- [00:35:52.817]who hadn't been exposed to this material before.
- [00:35:55.219]And it all happened because
- [00:35:56.888]of this new and disruptive technology.
- [00:35:59.290]We've seen this recurring throughout history.
- [00:36:01.926]Any time there is a significant technology,
- [00:36:03.861]technological innovation in the way
- [00:36:06.364]that people consume information,
- [00:36:07.798]people use it
- [00:36:09.066]for political purposes.
- [00:36:11.068]It happened during the 1970's in Iran
- [00:36:13.371]where people were smuggling in cassette tapes
- [00:36:15.406]of addresses by Ayatollah Khomeini,
- [00:36:17.742]which lead to the overthrow of the Shah.
- [00:36:19.777]It happened in the late 1980's in Eastern Europe
- [00:36:22.847]when people were smuggling fax machines
- [00:36:24.415]and photocopiers into the country
- [00:36:26.951]so that they could distribute anti-Soviet,
- [00:36:29.420]pro-democracy propaganda.
- [00:36:30.955]And it happened after the revolution of social media
- [00:36:34.392]when we saw during the Arab spring,
- [00:36:36.093]Twitter and Facebook and YouTube
- [00:36:38.429]used to mobilize
- [00:36:39.497]thousands, hundreds of thousands of people
- [00:36:41.699]onto the streets.
- [00:36:43.401]We think the disruptive technologies
- [00:36:45.202]are always used by those who have subversive ideas
- [00:36:48.973]that are not recognized
- [00:36:50.174]as important or valuable by the state
- [00:36:52.577]for social and political change.
- [00:36:55.279]We think that
- [00:36:56.380]the ability to limit and control those technologies
- [00:36:59.450]about how people use them and the way in which they use them
- [00:37:02.787]and the things that they say when using them.
- [00:37:05.423]The ability to do that
- [00:37:06.924]has always been used
- [00:37:08.259]by those who hold political power
- [00:37:10.494]to limit free speech
- [00:37:11.762]and to maintain their hold
- [00:37:13.998]on political and social power.
- [00:37:15.900]We believe on side opposition
- [00:37:17.568]that the state should never have the ability to do that,
- [00:37:20.171]that regulation of social media
- [00:37:22.306]should be something that is left
- [00:37:24.175]to the consumers of social media
- [00:37:25.209]and the companies that run that.
- [00:37:27.211]And we think that will always be
- [00:37:28.713]far more healthy and far more protective
- [00:37:31.282]of democracy that we hold to be so valuable.
- [00:37:34.452]So some points of rebuilding of what Becky said,
- [00:37:36.621]some rebuttal to their speech,
- [00:37:38.422]and then a little constructive material of my own.
- [00:37:40.157]So firstly note
- [00:37:41.425]that there was very little actual rebuttal
- [00:37:43.594]given to Becky's
- [00:37:44.795]material about how social media
- [00:37:46.530]furthers participation
- [00:37:48.132]and empowerment.
- [00:37:49.400]We got out of the last speech
- [00:37:50.501]was that simply the assertion
- [00:37:52.203]that there are never any good
- [00:37:53.638]political discussions on Facebook.
- [00:37:55.740]I might suggest to the previous speaker
- [00:37:57.241]that maybe he may need to talk with better people
- [00:37:59.577]on social media.
- [00:38:00.645](laughter)
- [00:38:01.646]He maybe need to seek out spaces
- [00:38:03.180]in which those,
- [00:38:04.715]those conversions happen.
- [00:38:06.751]But I think also importantly,
- [00:38:08.419]and this came up
- [00:38:09.520]in Becky's speech as well,
- [00:38:10.788]but we see how autocracies
- [00:38:12.523]have this tendency to limit freedom of speech,
- [00:38:15.159]countries like Turkey,
- [00:38:16.527]countries like Russia.
- [00:38:17.795]They claim to be democracies
- [00:38:19.163]and to have free and fair elections,
- [00:38:20.564]but they use their control of information
- [00:38:23.034]to say that
- [00:38:24.902]certain things are fake,
- [00:38:26.771]certain things didn't happen,
- [00:38:28.606]or are not real
- [00:38:30.074]and control the narrative.
- [00:38:31.409]We see that in China
- [00:38:32.410]where simply posting on social media
- [00:38:34.011]anything to do with Tienanmen Square
- [00:38:35.479]and 1989
- [00:38:36.814]will get you a visit from the police
- [00:38:39.417]for committing some kind of crime
- [00:38:40.985]against the state.
- [00:38:41.986]We think that,
- [00:38:43.087]we don't think that this will happen tomorrow in America
- [00:38:45.556]if this regulation passes.
- [00:38:47.558]But we think that a significant harm
- [00:38:49.293]and that the state is always likely to take more control
- [00:38:52.263]that is necessary--
- [00:38:53.698]COLTON: Question.
- [00:38:54.699]RICHARD: No thank you.
- [00:38:55.700]They also say that regulations (laughter)
- [00:38:56.701]is not censorship,
- [00:38:58.436]that they are not
- [00:38:59.770]being, stopping people from saying things.
- [00:39:01.772]You're preventing what people hide away, right.
- [00:39:04.408]We think that
- [00:39:06.010]when you do that,
- [00:39:06.977]you are regulating what people say.
- [00:39:08.512]As soon as these regulation exist,
- [00:39:10.948]someone in the government
- [00:39:13.250]is going to be trusted to draw the line
- [00:39:14.418]as to where fake news ends
- [00:39:16.287]and where political speech begins, right.
- [00:39:18.656]What we are saying is that we do not trust
- [00:39:20.491]the government,
- [00:39:22.059]not just to draw that line,
- [00:39:23.260]but we don't trust the government
- [00:39:24.562]to move that line
- [00:39:25.529]in a way that will suit them.
- [00:39:27.531]We also hear this comparison to television
- [00:39:30.267]and radio, right.
- [00:39:31.602]We importantly bring you the rebuttal
- [00:39:33.571]that social media is participatory.
- [00:39:35.606]It is not just the New York Times
- [00:39:38.008]that defines what is on your Facebook newsfeed.
- [00:39:39.643]It is what you say
- [00:39:41.479]and your friends say.
- [00:39:42.446]It's the comments on articles.
- [00:39:43.781]It's the debate that goes on within those comment sections.
- [00:39:46.650]We didn't think the
- [00:39:48.219]it is a
- [00:39:49.353]well known principle
- [00:39:50.354]that you cannot regulate
- [00:39:51.422]people's thoughts.
- [00:39:52.990]You cannot regulate the conclusions
- [00:39:54.592]that people come to
- [00:39:55.593]based on information.
- [00:39:56.594]We don't think it would be legitimate
- [00:39:57.795]for the state to do that.
- [00:39:59.029]And we think that when the state
- [00:40:00.131]is going to find it very difficult
- [00:40:01.398]to distinguish between
- [00:40:02.733]what is media and what is people's thoughts,
- [00:40:04.902]they shouldn't regulate.
- [00:40:06.303]They then say that we're going to have user participation
- [00:40:09.707]and that's going to make this system very effective.
- [00:40:11.542]We think that
- [00:40:12.877]either you will have a system
- [00:40:15.679]where very few users flag things
- [00:40:17.181]as fake news,
- [00:40:18.516]in which case you won't get the,
- [00:40:19.550]it won't be widespread enough to be effective,
- [00:40:21.452]because not enough articles will be flagged by users,
- [00:40:23.687]and you won't catch everything.
- [00:40:26.757]Or you'll have
- [00:40:28.092]everyone acting as their own censor,
- [00:40:29.493]and we think that that would be
- [00:40:30.928]terrible because users are horrifically unreliable.
- [00:40:32.496]We think that there are people
- [00:40:34.965]who will hear Alex Jones
- [00:40:36.634]telling them that they're poisoning the water,
- [00:40:38.536]that the globalist agenda
- [00:40:39.737]is coming
- [00:40:40.871]to further some thing that is a threat to them,
- [00:40:42.640]and then conveniently sell them some water filters
- [00:40:43.974]and brain pills on the side.
- [00:40:45.609]We think that some people will think
- [00:40:47.211]that he is reliable
- [00:40:48.479]and will flag anything that contradict him
- [00:40:49.847]as unreliable,
- [00:40:51.315]even though it is demonstrably false.
- [00:40:52.783]We think you will get a mess
- [00:40:54.084]and you will not solve the problem.
- [00:40:57.321]We think that
- [00:40:58.656]the solution to this problem
- [00:41:00.191]is found in the actions of technology companies themselves,
- [00:41:03.260]because,
- [00:41:05.062]to coin a phrase,
- [00:41:06.297]what is Facebook but its people.
- [00:41:08.032]Without consumers, and without users,
- [00:41:10.968]Facebook is nothing.
- [00:41:12.670]We think that Facebook then
- [00:41:13.971]finds that it has an incentive to respond rapidly
- [00:41:16.507]because any bad PR,
- [00:41:18.042]any accusation that is peddling
- [00:41:19.977]fake information
- [00:41:21.245]could impact it's stock price.
- [00:41:23.380]And that's all Facebook really cares about.
- [00:41:25.716]We think that when company gets these bad reactions,
- [00:41:27.284]they have to react
- [00:41:28.886]quickly.
- [00:41:30.254]See how quickly Reddit ended up
- [00:41:32.323]excluding
- [00:41:33.691]hateful subreddits
- [00:41:35.326]when it became clear
- [00:41:36.727]that there was a massive media storm
- [00:41:38.295]about them doing so.
- [00:41:39.563]We also think companies
- [00:41:41.065]can respond flexibly
- [00:41:42.333]and the companies have the ability
- [00:41:43.901]to rapidly hire people
- [00:41:45.236]of a wide variety of backgrounds
- [00:41:46.804]to help them do this.
- [00:41:47.938]Note how Facebook
- [00:41:49.006]coordinated with already existing political
- [00:41:50.908]fact checking organizations.
- [00:41:52.743]Whereas governments take longer to do things
- [00:41:55.446]and have more layers of bureaucracy
- [00:41:56.947]and more strange incentives
- [00:41:58.916]to respond to this.
- [00:42:00.484]We also think that
- [00:42:01.785]at the moment,
- [00:42:02.786]the government gets involved,
- [00:42:03.821]the state has asymmetric power.
- [00:42:05.122]The state has the ability to change,
- [00:42:06.724]change the laws as quickly as it wants,
- [00:42:09.026]to reinterpret laws
- [00:42:10.294]because it has the power of the law and order system.
- [00:42:12.630]It has the power even if it doesn't get involved
- [00:42:14.765]through the justice system,
- [00:42:16.200]it has the power to,
- [00:42:17.234]to change how much tax these companies pay,
- [00:42:20.037]to threaten them with all sorts of things.
- [00:42:23.274]We think that once they have that power,
- [00:42:25.175]and once they get involved--
- [00:42:26.477]COLTON: Question.
- [00:42:27.478]RICHARD: Discussions,
- [00:42:28.479]they will abuse that power
- [00:42:29.446]and do it,
- [00:42:30.447]yes, I will take you.
- [00:42:31.448]COLTON: So, why aren't we living in a dictatorship
- [00:42:33.784]after we passed broadcasting laws?
- [00:42:36.453]RICHARD: So as we've said,
- [00:42:39.156]broadcasting laws
- [00:42:40.658]are not similar to social media
- [00:42:42.660]in that setting up a massive television broadcasting aerial
- [00:42:46.730]is very difficult
- [00:42:48.832]and opening a Facebook account is very easy.
- [00:42:50.167]We think that
- [00:42:52.069]the government therefore regulates the electromagnetic
- [00:42:53.938]spectrum on what you can broadcast,
- [00:42:55.739]but it cannot regulate
- [00:42:57.274]the Internet
- [00:42:58.342]because there is no meaningful different
- [00:42:59.743]between what the Washington Post posts on the Internet,
- [00:43:01.245]and what you post on the Internet.
- [00:43:02.947]We think,
- [00:43:04.415]we think that's,
- [00:43:06.083]that's the difference there
- [00:43:07.551]and that's why
- [00:43:08.485]television and radio wasn't necessarily as toxic.
- [00:43:10.521]But as we also said,
- [00:43:11.922]the stuff about echo chambers
- [00:43:13.324]is hardly new.
- [00:43:14.425]We think that
- [00:43:15.459]throughout history,
- [00:43:16.460]you have always been likely to have the political opinions
- [00:43:19.096]of the people in your community,
- [00:43:20.931]of the people of your age group,
- [00:43:22.599]of the people of your job.
- [00:43:24.001]We think that
- [00:43:25.469]this problem did not come out of thin air.
- [00:43:27.805]In closing, I would simply say that
- [00:43:30.507]in the United Kingdom,
- [00:43:32.009]we do not have a first amendment.
- [00:43:34.144]We do not have a constitution
- [00:43:36.080]that we can rely on
- [00:43:37.147]that says we are guaranteed the freedom of speech,
- [00:43:39.016]the freedom of religion,
- [00:43:40.050]the freedom of assembly,
- [00:43:41.452]and the freedom to petition grievances.
- [00:43:44.154]And that means that we cannot challenge things
- [00:43:46.256]that we believe to be unconstitutional
- [00:43:47.958]as easily as people in the United States.
- [00:43:50.527]We do not,
- [00:43:51.562]the government has far more power over us
- [00:43:53.364]as individual citizens than we do.
- [00:43:54.732]And this means that
- [00:43:56.033]the ability,
- [00:43:57.067]the government
- [00:43:58.102]has the ability to surveil us
- [00:43:59.970]and has much more surveillance
- [00:44:01.405]and that was passed through government
- [00:44:02.940]and was completely legal
- [00:44:04.541]and was waived through without much protest.
- [00:44:06.910]You in the United States have that.
- [00:44:08.679]I believe that you should treasure it.
- [00:44:11.515]I believe that you should not let
- [00:44:12.916]some heavy handed regulation
- [00:44:14.818]as a,
- [00:44:15.819]as a
- [00:44:16.820]immediate response to one very small problem
- [00:44:18.655]to take that freedom of speech away.
- [00:44:20.924]I would urge you to be on side negative.
- [00:44:22.559]Thank you.
- [00:44:23.627](applause)
- [00:44:42.546]ERIN SHEHAN: This debate today has been full of a lot of great ideas
- [00:44:44.615]and interesting examples.
- [00:44:46.917]But, we believe on the affirmative side
- [00:44:49.119]that it comes down to three important questions.
- [00:44:52.122]How does democracy thrive without and informed populous?
- [00:44:56.894]Are you truly free
- [00:44:59.163]if you're kept in the dark?
- [00:45:00.631]And what is the best way to promote equitable discourse?
- [00:45:03.934]We are standing in favor of equitability,
- [00:45:07.504]transparency, and responsibility.
- [00:45:10.307]First, we think that all ideas should be equal.
- [00:45:14.411]Ideas that aren't fake news.
- [00:45:16.814]And fake news is a real thing.
- [00:45:19.016]Ideas that are objectively false.
- [00:45:21.618]Things like Donald Trump was endorsed by the Pope.
- [00:45:24.455]This isn't partisan, it's not true.
- [00:45:28.826]The Brits think that
- [00:45:30.461]everything is equal on our social media platforms.
- [00:45:32.329]I value the idea of equality on social media platforms.
- [00:45:36.467]But things aren't equal on our social media platforms
- [00:45:40.304]when we know nothing about our algorithms
- [00:45:43.006]or why certain topics are trending.
- [00:45:45.008]This is why regulation is necessary.
- [00:45:47.444]We aren't regulating content
- [00:45:50.681]like the British would like to suggest,
- [00:45:52.616]or shutting users
- [00:45:53.984]who are actually spreading real information
- [00:45:57.087]off of Internet sites.
- [00:45:58.989]We're shutting out fake accounts
- [00:46:01.325]that are using the Internet
- [00:46:03.393]to manipulate American citizens.
- [00:46:06.663]Next, we believe that the Internet should be
- [00:46:09.066]a space with transparency.
- [00:46:10.701]We should know who is behind advertisements
- [00:46:13.770]and fake news articles.
- [00:46:15.506]Right now, we don't on sites like Facebook.
- [00:46:18.509]This is what we're talking about
- [00:46:20.077]when we discuss things like the FEC regulations.
- [00:46:22.079]They don't apply to Facebook advertisements,
- [00:46:25.115]and they should.
- [00:46:26.617]This has nothing to do with
- [00:46:28.185]whether you're choosing to participate in Facebook
- [00:46:29.987]or you're not.
- [00:46:31.355]An advertisement is content you're exposed to
- [00:46:33.924]regardless of the platform.
- [00:46:35.526]And you should know who paid for it
- [00:46:37.961]and where it's coming from.
- [00:46:40.063]How can you have optimism about people's ability
- [00:46:42.366]to tell if something is fake
- [00:46:44.067]when people were targeted by fake Twitter accounts,
- [00:46:47.004]African American women who were told
- [00:46:49.940]they could vote by home on election day
- [00:46:52.209]and they believed it.
- [00:46:53.644]I'm optimistic about people's ability
- [00:46:55.746]to discuss information
- [00:46:57.347]in a civic engagement forum
- [00:46:58.849]like this.
- [00:47:00.017]But I'm not optimistic about people's ability
- [00:47:01.952]to discern what's fake and what's not
- [00:47:04.421]when it's already increasingly difficult
- [00:47:06.557]for people to do so.
- [00:47:08.258]This is again why we think regulation is important.
- [00:47:10.694]And finally, we think that
- [00:47:13.597]there needs to be responsibility
- [00:47:15.265]on both behalf of the government
- [00:47:17.467]and social media companies.
- [00:47:19.570]At this point, it seems like both us and the British
- [00:47:23.273]are arguing the same thing.
- [00:47:24.374]We both want social media
- [00:47:26.043]to do a better job
- [00:47:27.945]of self regulating.
- [00:47:29.246]We don't want regulation
- [00:47:30.948]that limits speech.
- [00:47:32.382]We don't want political regulation,
- [00:47:34.718]and we don't want to eliminate
- [00:47:37.120]specifically partisan information.
- [00:47:39.356]This is about targeting fake information.
- [00:47:41.425]We're not trying to push down the disenfranchised.
- [00:47:45.062]We already regulate speech in this country.
- [00:47:48.632]It's about drawing the line
- [00:47:50.834]of where we regulate speech,
- [00:47:52.302]where it's appropriate to do so.
- [00:47:54.538]They want to draw the line in favor of absolute speech,
- [00:47:58.508]a way that allows us to be misinformed
- [00:48:01.178]by Twitter accounts,
- [00:48:02.980]by Russians and other individuals
- [00:48:05.182]that want to manipulate our elections.
- [00:48:07.618]I want to draw the line
- [00:48:09.319]in a way that allows us
- [00:48:10.654]to actually have equitable
- [00:48:12.389]and transparent social media platforms.
- [00:48:15.525]This debate is easy.
- [00:48:17.427]The British have oversimplified how social media works
- [00:48:20.130]and how regulation works.
- [00:48:21.932]If you support ideas like equitability,
- [00:48:24.368]transparency,
- [00:48:25.669]and responsibility,
- [00:48:26.637]you will support the affirmative.
- [00:48:28.705]Thank you.
- [00:48:29.873](applause)
- [00:48:40.784]REBECCA HAWORTH: In a number of ways,
- [00:48:41.718]this is a really nice debate
- [00:48:42.719]because both sides want to achieve the same thing.
- [00:48:44.588]We want a great democracy,
- [00:48:45.589]we want transparency,
- [00:48:46.823]we want good political discussion,
- [00:48:48.859]and we want the truth to get out.
- [00:48:50.861]But we think we achieve it in different ways.
- [00:48:52.462]So I'm going to explain why I think
- [00:48:53.930]that our side has won this debate.
- [00:48:55.565]First idea that I really want to challenge
- [00:48:57.768]is that we get the concept of equitability
- [00:48:59.436]from the opposite side.
- [00:49:00.937]And we think this is really problematic
- [00:49:02.439]in a social media context.
- [00:49:03.740]Because to get equality
- [00:49:06.610]of ideas on social media,
- [00:49:08.211]you would literally have to regulate and say
- [00:49:10.347]10 people have to post about cat videos,
- [00:49:12.649]10 people have to post about dog videos.
- [00:49:15.152]We think that ignores the way that social media works
- [00:49:17.554]in the content is created by individual users
- [00:49:20.624]and there's a up-voting, down-voting system
- [00:49:23.527]of people who enjoy different ideas
- [00:49:26.229]moving them upwards in the news feeds.
- [00:49:28.899]And we get the idea that
- [00:49:30.300]the advertising in particular,
- [00:49:32.769]is harmful because it targets people
- [00:49:34.571]and means that they make bad decisions
- [00:49:37.274]as they're termed.
- [00:49:38.475]But, I really think this misunderstands
- [00:49:40.677]how people engage with content,
- [00:49:42.579]because I get Facebook ads
- [00:49:44.348]for like fancy cheese toasty makers,
- [00:49:46.350]and yogurt retreats in Barley.
- [00:49:48.018]But I don't go and spend my hard money on it, right.
- [00:49:50.420]We're all exposed to huge amounts of commercial advertising
- [00:49:53.557]but we're not standing here saying
- [00:49:56.159]that we have a problem
- [00:49:57.394]about how heavily influenced by this we are
- [00:49:59.596]because we believe that we have an ability
- [00:50:01.264]to think for ourselves.
- [00:50:02.899]And it's a real leap of logic, right.
- [00:50:05.302]It's true that Russia created a lot of content.
- [00:50:07.738]It's true that Donald Trump won the election
- [00:50:10.140]but there's a huge leap of logic
- [00:50:11.475]to say that is the only reason
- [00:50:13.677]or that was a significant driver in why that happened.
- [00:50:15.946]We don't think they fulfilled their burden on that side
- [00:50:18.315]of proving it.
- [00:50:19.449]We don't think the side proposition
- [00:50:21.718]have achieved their goals
- [00:50:23.086]and in fact, we think they make democracy worse.
- [00:50:24.821]So the idea of transparency,
- [00:50:25.922]so they say that
- [00:50:27.057]companies use these mysterious algorithms
- [00:50:29.393]which are really harmful
- [00:50:30.594]because it allows an unequal platform of ideas.
- [00:50:32.829]But we say when you give it to the government
- [00:50:35.232]to write the rule book
- [00:50:36.400]of what are the ideas that are allowed
- [00:50:38.201]that necessarily leads to censorship.
- [00:50:40.103]So what happens when,
- [00:50:42.072]if the government decides
- [00:50:43.907]that climate change is not scientifically robust enough
- [00:50:47.310]and that's considered fake news?
- [00:50:49.079]Or if Black Lives Matter is considered to be an extremist
- [00:50:53.216]terrorist organization
- [00:50:54.618]who's ideas shouldn't be propagated
- [00:50:56.253]across the platform.
- [00:50:57.487]They don't achieve transparency.
- [00:50:59.656]They just shift power to a body
- [00:51:01.858]which won't be open,
- [00:51:03.360]which doesn't give detailed explanations
- [00:51:06.096]of their reasoning,
- [00:51:07.097]and in fact, concentrates power
- [00:51:08.665]in a small number of people.
- [00:51:10.000]They talk about the value of discussion,
- [00:51:12.068]and they say, you know,
- [00:51:14.171]what's the secret to having better discussions on Facebook?
- [00:51:16.506]Sure, there is a part of Facebook
- [00:51:18.942]which is purely like,
- [00:51:20.143]videos of dogs being forced into baths,
- [00:51:22.078]which is really funny by the way,
- [00:51:23.780]you should check it out.
- [00:51:25.949]But the thing is, right,
- [00:51:26.983]sure every now and then
- [00:51:27.984]we'll unfollow someone
- [00:51:29.252]who has an opinion that we disagree with.
- [00:51:30.420]But every now and then,
- [00:51:31.521]we will pick our battles too.
- [00:51:32.489]Or we will start having a conversation
- [00:51:33.857]and challenge those ideas.
- [00:51:35.325]With it, you get so much more interaction
- [00:51:37.127]on social media.
- [00:51:38.462]Then this idea of truth, right,
- [00:51:39.863]and fake news,
- [00:51:41.565]which I honestly think
- [00:51:42.566]is a phrase that people are obsessed about
- [00:51:44.067]in this country.
- [00:51:45.068](laughter)
- [00:51:47.003]And they got this concept of the Pope, right,
- [00:51:48.271]and that the Pope supporting Trump
- [00:51:49.940]gave him massive support.
- [00:51:51.408]Well, I really don't understand
- [00:51:54.277]what the marginal impact of that article was
- [00:51:57.047]compared to a photo of Donald Trump
- [00:52:00.016]stood next to the Pope.
- [00:52:01.418]Like the implicit impact of that,
- [00:52:03.487]the marginal impact of that
- [00:52:04.888]I think
- [00:52:05.989]is really, really small.
- [00:52:07.057]But also, as I was saying about commercial advertising,
- [00:52:09.125]it assumes that we are brainless voters
- [00:52:12.796]who can't discern
- [00:52:14.097]information.
- [00:52:15.165]We've been trained to identify this stuff.
- [00:52:17.067]We have independent fact checking organizations.
- [00:52:19.402]And we think it's really harmful
- [00:52:21.304]when you let the definition
- [00:52:22.339]be driven by the government.
- [00:52:23.540]Look, Richard gave a lot of really important material
- [00:52:26.276]on countries that would like to use this
- [00:52:28.879]to impose that asymmetric power
- [00:52:31.181]onto the population.
- [00:52:32.816]We don't think that was responded to.
- [00:52:34.184]This team tried to claim
- [00:52:36.419]that minorities are let down by fake news,
- [00:52:39.289]but we don't actually think that's the biggest problem
- [00:52:42.025]as they claim it is.
- [00:52:43.660]We think that social media is so unique
- [00:52:46.129]in that you can co-create content.
- [00:52:48.131]So you're not just watching a TV show
- [00:52:49.132]and then thinking to yourself,
- [00:52:50.467]oh what do I think in reflection to this piece.
- [00:52:51.968]You co-create the material,
- [00:52:53.670]and you share that with other people.
- [00:52:55.672]And any regulation
- [00:52:56.773]of social media is going to shut people out
- [00:52:58.742]from that contribution.
- [00:53:00.243]And for some people,
- [00:53:01.378]it's the only voice that they can have.
- [00:53:03.346]That's why we are so opposed to this regulation.
- [00:53:05.248]Thank you for the debate today.
- [00:53:07.350]It's been fantastic.
- [00:53:08.418]Proud to oppose.
- [00:53:09.452](applause)
- [00:53:30.907]MODERATOR: Thank you to both teams
- [00:53:32.075]for a excellent debate.
- [00:53:33.910](applause)
- [00:53:43.086]MODERATOR: It has become commonplace to say
- [00:53:44.588]that debate, discussion,
- [00:53:46.256]and dialogue are dying in the modern American democracy.
- [00:53:49.326]But to that I would say,
- [00:53:51.294]tonight, here in Lincoln, Nebraska,
- [00:53:53.196]on the campus of the University of Nebraska,
- [00:53:55.532]those values are alive and well.
- [00:53:58.535](applause)
- [00:54:05.909]And they are alive and well precisely
- [00:54:07.043]because we have such a wonderful audience here
- [00:54:10.013]and online,
- [00:54:11.414]because at a certain point,
- [00:54:12.682]it's not public speaking
- [00:54:14.451]without the public.
- [00:54:16.386]And now we need your help.
- [00:54:18.221]We need you to help us decide
- [00:54:20.023]who won tonight's war of word,
- [00:54:21.558]wit, and wisdom.
- [00:54:23.460]So I'm gonna ask you,
- [00:54:25.362]for those of you who are live in the audience here,
- [00:54:27.998]when I announce each team,
- [00:54:30.533]if you think they did the best job of debating tonight,
- [00:54:33.236]cause we ask you to decide not
- [00:54:35.238]what you came in with as your political ideas,
- [00:54:37.307]but who you thought best represented their positions
- [00:54:39.609]in the debate,
- [00:54:40.744]to clap, to cheer,
- [00:54:42.145]to stomp your feet,
- [00:54:43.380]to loudly shout Nebraska,
- [00:54:45.548]or whichever team,
- [00:54:46.549](laughter)
- [00:54:47.517]you think won tonight's debate,
- [00:54:50.387]because both teams did a great job.
- [00:54:52.722]So if you thought the best debating was done
- [00:54:56.059]by the affirmative University of Nebraska team
- [00:54:58.728]please clap and cheer.
- [00:55:00.397](cheers and applause)
- [00:55:12.942]And if you thought the best debating
- [00:55:14.077]was done by noted Iowa Hawkeye fans,
- [00:55:16.880](laughter)
- [00:55:20.517](cheers and applause)
- [00:55:22.152]The British national team.
- [00:55:25.622](cheers and applause)
- [00:55:40.236]MODERATOR: I don't know if I should answer that,
- [00:55:41.738]that might be too close to call.
- [00:55:42.706](laughter)
- [00:55:45.742]Great job by everybody.
- [00:55:47.410]So I think at this point,
- [00:55:49.045]we'll declare the winner
- [00:55:50.780]to be everyone who participated tonight
- [00:55:52.248]and to open it up
- [00:55:53.583]for some wonderful questions and answers.
- [00:55:56.319]MIKE ZELENY: Well, and diplomatically stated Dr. Duncan.
- [00:55:59.055]At this time, the debaters and moderators
- [00:56:01.591]will take questions from the audience.
- [00:56:03.059]You may submit questions again
- [00:56:04.494]using the hashtag,
- [00:56:06.429]Twitter hashtag E. N. Thompson Forum,
- [00:56:07.831]or write your questions on note cards
- [00:56:09.599]provided by the ushers.
- [00:56:10.800]Our first question,
- [00:56:11.968]as tradition has,
- [00:56:13.036]comes from the E. N. Thompson
- [00:56:14.437]International scholars.
- [00:56:15.505]We'll start with the British team.
- [00:56:16.806]What are your thoughts on how world leaders
- [00:56:18.108]should or should not use social media?
- [00:56:20.777](laughter)
- [00:56:26.616]RICHARD HUNTER: So, I was actually remarking
- [00:56:27.650]as we were walking over to this event,
- [00:56:29.219]that a seismic change
- [00:56:31.488]has taken place,
- [00:56:32.689]that has the potential to forever alter
- [00:56:36.426]over the next few months,
- [00:56:38.094]world and international relations,
- [00:56:40.296]and that is that Twitter has actually
- [00:56:42.699]doubled it's character limit
- [00:56:43.867]from 140 to 280 characters.
- [00:56:46.903]So,
- [00:56:48.571]that gives world leaders twice as much space.
- [00:56:50.774]I would say that
- [00:56:52.976]I'm not sure there's one way to use social media.
- [00:56:59.849]I think it's going to be,
- [00:57:00.817]it's always going to be
- [00:57:05.288]unique to
- [00:57:06.256]the politician and what their message is
- [00:57:08.458]and the way they want to connect
- [00:57:10.326]with their supporters.
- [00:57:11.961]What I would say is that
- [00:57:14.364]I'm trying to be diplomatic as possible,
- [00:57:17.801](laughter)
- [00:57:20.370]there are ways in which you communicate,
- [00:57:22.205]which,
- [00:57:26.276]are positive
- [00:57:27.811]and make you unite all of your country,
- [00:57:31.514]and make you act like a representative of your country,
- [00:57:34.184]and something that your country can be proud of.
- [00:57:35.819](applause)
- [00:57:41.825]I would prefer a world in which every world leader
- [00:57:44.160]represented that at all times.
- [00:57:46.095](applause)
- [00:57:52.669]MIKE: Alright, for the Nebraska team.
- [00:57:53.837]What is the primary motivation
- [00:57:55.238]behind the spread of fake news?
- [00:57:56.873]Is is economic?
- [00:57:57.841]Maybe ideological?
- [00:58:02.378]ERIN: So, I would say that
- [00:58:03.947]ideological is a big thing,
- [00:58:06.182]so especially when we look to our past election,
- [00:58:09.652]a lot of that fake news was targeted towards
- [00:58:13.289]specific groups and,
- [00:58:15.291]there were very clear motivations.
- [00:58:17.060]So, the example that,
- [00:58:19.329]I sited a lot during the debate was
- [00:58:20.663]targeting African American women,
- [00:58:22.565]telling them that they could vote from home
- [00:58:24.434]on election day,
- [00:58:25.401]and giving them a phone number
- [00:58:26.636]that they could text a vote from.
- [00:58:28.371]We know that African American women
- [00:58:30.974]are often a reliable voting base
- [00:58:33.142]for the Democratic party.
- [00:58:34.544]So, telling these women that
- [00:58:37.380]they can vote from home,
- [00:58:39.082]aka, they're not going to be able to vote,
- [00:58:41.017]that clearly to me has ideological
- [00:58:43.286]drive behind it.
- [00:58:46.122]COLTON WHITE: Yeah, and I think it sometimes depends upon
- [00:58:48.892]where the source of it was from
- [00:58:50.760]because certainly there are
- [00:58:53.162]a lot of ideological reasons,
- [00:58:54.530]like Erin just pointed out,
- [00:58:55.665]but there are also the examples,
- [00:58:56.900]like the Hungarian teens
- [00:58:59.035]who made fake news accounts
- [00:59:01.537]so they could get the ad revenue from their website.
- [00:59:04.974]I mean, sure they might be entrepreneurial,
- [00:59:07.777]but maybe try to find a better way kids
- [00:59:10.046]of going about that.
- [00:59:12.081]So it just really depends on,
- [00:59:14.183]on the context.
- [00:59:15.752]But either way,
- [00:59:16.853]when,
- [00:59:18.254]like we should be looking at the effects of it is,
- [00:59:20.456]no matter what the intentions behind it were.
- [00:59:24.961]MIKE: Alright, thank you.
- [00:59:25.929]From our Twitter feed this evening,
- [00:59:27.764]Richard and Becky,
- [00:59:28.932]in what ways would basic freedoms be hurt
- [00:59:31.067]if social media were regulated?
- [00:59:33.569]REBECCA: I think it's,
- [00:59:35.905]I think it speaks to the kind of content
- [00:59:37.607]that we were just talking about
- [00:59:38.808]in the context of the debate.
- [00:59:39.943]It's about expressing
- [00:59:41.077]your ideas and your opinions.
- [00:59:42.745]And I think
- [00:59:43.846]social media is just another way
- [00:59:45.915]for people to get their voices heard.
- [00:59:48.651]And I think it is a really important way
- [00:59:50.253]for people who feel
- [00:59:51.454]shut out of conventional media,
- [00:59:53.423]whether that's young people
- [00:59:55.258]or minorities.
- [00:59:56.259]And so I think it is quite dangerous route
- [00:59:58.161]to go down,
- [01:00:00.096]when you start developing a criteria
- [01:00:01.864]for what's allowed and what's disallowed.
- [01:00:04.233]Cause typically, you don't have a lot of transparency
- [01:00:06.869]with how those,
- [01:00:08.037]those criterias are developed.
- [01:00:09.672]So it's about people having a voice
- [01:00:11.841]and having an impact on political discussion.
- [01:00:15.278]MIKE: Alright, to the Nebraska team.
- [01:00:16.279]How do you protect the intellectual property
- [01:00:18.414]of social media companies
- [01:00:19.615]when disclosing their algorithms?
- [01:00:24.420]COLTON: So I think that
- [01:00:26.122]maybe just patents,
- [01:00:27.123]or other traditional means.
- [01:00:28.891]I mean when Apple releases an iPhone,
- [01:00:31.894]it's not all of a sudden the worry of
- [01:00:33.963]Apple's not gonna have any money
- [01:00:35.665]because everyone else creates an iPhone now.
- [01:00:39.335]I think the algorithms go
- [01:00:40.837]similar ways,
- [01:00:42.405]at least from my understanding.
- [01:00:44.273]We can have
- [01:00:45.875]ways of preserving that intellectual property
- [01:00:48.578]in the same way we've preserved other
- [01:00:51.381]types of intellectual property.
- [01:00:55.284]MIKE: Alright, to the British team,
- [01:00:56.285]our Twitter followers want to know
- [01:00:57.353]what is a toasty?
- [01:00:59.022](laughter)
- [01:01:00.556]RICHARD: So.
- [01:01:02.025]REBECCA: Yeah.
- [01:01:03.092]As the the grilled cheese expert on this team,
- [01:01:04.127]as a vegetarian traveling around the states,
- [01:01:05.695]I've had many grilled cheeses.
- [01:01:07.697]It's basically just like
- [01:01:09.465]a toasted sandwich.
- [01:01:11.234]So like a toasty is a toasted sandwich.
- [01:01:14.003]I think you call it grilled cheese.
- [01:01:15.371]I don't know what you would call it
- [01:01:16.973]if it didn't have cheese in it.
- [01:01:18.041]Like a grilled tomato.
- [01:01:19.742]RICHARD: No, I've seen,
- [01:01:21.177]there's much controversy with this
- [01:01:23.813]in certain sectors of the Internet
- [01:01:25.348]is that if it's,
- [01:01:26.616]if it's just cheese,
- [01:01:27.850]then it's a grilled cheese.
- [01:01:28.885]But if it has other ingredients,
- [01:01:30.086]then it's a melt.
- [01:01:31.554]So,
- [01:01:33.356](applause)
- [01:01:34.424]so the toasty covers both ways.
- [01:01:37.126](applause)
- [01:01:39.295](chatter)
- [01:01:42.298]REBECCA: I feel reassured,
- [01:01:43.266]cause that's obviously why no one laughed at my toasty joke.
- [01:01:45.401](laughter)
- [01:01:47.370]MIKE: Seriously, there were a number of questions.
- [01:01:48.871]Once again, to the British team,
- [01:01:50.206]tell us a little bit more about the British debate team.
- [01:01:52.742]RICHARD: Yeah, so this program
- [01:01:55.445]has been running since 1922.
- [01:01:59.148]And it's run by a charity
- [01:02:02.085]called the English Speaking Union,
- [01:02:03.686]beset at Dartmouth House in London.
- [01:02:04.921]They run a variety of programs
- [01:02:06.489]where they organize debate tournaments
- [01:02:08.524]and they go into high schools
- [01:02:10.560]and run debate programs,
- [01:02:11.627]and help people get excited about debate and discourse.
- [01:02:14.697]The first tour in 1922,
- [01:02:17.400]as we were informed,
- [01:02:18.534]the people going were just given
- [01:02:21.571]a boat ticket,
- [01:02:22.572]a letter guaranteeing them
- [01:02:23.806]accommodation,
- [01:02:25.041]and the name of the person they had to meet.
- [01:02:26.943]And they were just told good luck and have fun.
- [01:02:29.278]We get a lot more support than that.
- [01:02:32.448]So the English Speaking Union
- [01:02:34.784]sorted out all our flights
- [01:02:36.352]and they partner with
- [01:02:37.386]the National Communication Association's
- [01:02:39.088]Committee for International Discussion and Debate,
- [01:02:41.224]which is the American end
- [01:02:42.925]which coordinates with all the various universities
- [01:02:44.994]that host us.
- [01:02:46.329]And this is stop number 18
- [01:02:48.598]out of 21.
- [01:02:50.199]We've been going for
- [01:02:52.034]about six and a half weeks.
- [01:02:53.503]So, yeah,
- [01:02:55.805]that's sort of the potted history of the tour.
- [01:02:58.141]MIKE: Alright, thank you and congratulations.
- [01:02:59.542]To the Nebraska team,
- [01:03:00.710]what are your underlying goals and purpose
- [01:03:02.044]for becoming involved in debate.
- [01:03:04.180]ERIN: My what?
- [01:03:05.781]MIKE: Your underlying goals or purpose.
- [01:03:07.049]ERIN: Oh, underlying goals.
- [01:03:08.050]I thought you said my other life goals.
- [01:03:09.785](laughter)
- [01:03:10.920]I was like,
- [01:03:11.921]let's not go there right now.
- [01:03:12.922](laughter)
- [01:03:14.490]Underlying goals,
- [01:03:15.558]so I talked about this in the pre-event.
- [01:03:18.127]I actually completely joined high school speech
- [01:03:20.897]completely by accident.
- [01:03:22.231]I didn't know what,
- [01:03:25.001]it's was called forensics at my high school.
- [01:03:26.235]I didn't really know what that was
- [01:03:27.837]and I just signed up for the class.
- [01:03:29.605]But, after I joined,
- [01:03:31.908]it turned out being
- [01:03:33.376]really, really interesting,
- [01:03:34.977]and I really enjoyed it.
- [01:03:36.712]And then when I came to college,
- [01:03:38.381]I
- [01:03:40.049]really,
- [01:03:41.017]I knew I was coming to the university so,
- [01:03:42.151]the thought of being on the speech team
- [01:03:44.720]and having something to do
- [01:03:46.422]that was academically stimulating
- [01:03:49.125]sounded appealing.
- [01:03:51.160]And I had a lot of friends that I knew on the team
- [01:03:53.329]so that was another push towards it.
- [01:03:55.431]COLTON: Yeah, mostly it's because I'm really nerdy.
- [01:03:57.466](laughter)
- [01:03:59.068]ERIN: That too.
- [01:04:00.403]COLTON: There's also,
- [01:04:01.671]it's a creative outlet
- [01:04:02.905]in terms of why I continue competing.
- [01:04:04.473]But,
- [01:04:05.775]as the years progress from here on out,
- [01:04:07.710]mostly it's going to shift towards
- [01:04:09.946]educating other people
- [01:04:11.013]in speech and debate.
- [01:04:12.381]And not only just about that,
- [01:04:13.449]but,
- [01:04:14.483]about the world,
- [01:04:15.451]and making sure that it gets passed on
- [01:04:17.720]to other people who
- [01:04:18.988]can maybe get those opportunities as well.
- [01:04:20.990]MIKE: Alright, well congratulations to each of you.
- [01:04:23.526]Now back to our topic at hand.
- [01:04:24.860]To the British,
- [01:04:26.362]if we don't regulate social media in any way,
- [01:04:28.464]where do we draw the line?
- [01:04:29.865]Would we allow Twitter to promote a tweet
- [01:04:31.634]that encourages violence
- [01:04:32.935]as long as it was paid for and disclosed?
- [01:04:35.738]RICHARD: So,
- [01:04:37.306]you want to?
- [01:04:38.841]REBECCA: I mean this is probably the point of the discussion
- [01:04:41.777]where I would take off my veil of this side of the debate
- [01:04:44.247]that I'm on
- [01:04:46.048]and answer it in a genuine way.
- [01:04:47.483]So in this format,
- [01:04:48.484]you don't
- [01:04:49.485]pick which point of view you argue,
- [01:04:50.486]and so actually my real perspective
- [01:04:54.056]is I think some regulation is probably quite important.
- [01:04:56.259]But you already voted, so.
- [01:04:59.295](laughter)
- [01:05:03.032]RICHARD: Yeah,
- [01:05:05.501]I mean obviously you don't,
- [01:05:07.470]you know, we accept that the state
- [01:05:10.840]has the obligation to regulate
- [01:05:12.575]what people,
- [01:05:13.676]what TV stations can broadcast,
- [01:05:15.778]and what they broadcast.
- [01:05:17.280]But we think that the state shouldn't have
- [01:05:19.081]the ability to
- [01:05:20.116]regulate what you say
- [01:05:21.917]if you're just shouting it
- [01:05:23.219]on a street corner necessarily.
- [01:05:24.387]I think you have to draw the line somewhere in that.
- [01:05:28.324]I'm not exactly sure where you draw that line,
- [01:05:31.861]and I'm not exactly sure how you draw that line.
- [01:05:34.330]We were assigned this side
- [01:05:36.599]of this resolution.
- [01:05:38.234](laughter)
- [01:05:40.870]That's what I argued,
- [01:05:42.038]but in real life,
- [01:05:43.039]I'm not sure.
- [01:05:44.340]REBECCA: I guess just to underline that point,
- [01:05:45.441]it's an interesting position to be in
- [01:05:46.842]where we principally concede
- [01:05:48.711]that regulation to some extent is important.
- [01:05:50.946]But it's that practicalities
- [01:05:52.982]perspective of how exactly you hash that out,
- [01:05:56.285]and how you create it in a way
- [01:05:57.286]that is fair
- [01:05:58.254]that doesn't create unintended harms
- [01:06:00.089]that we talked about in our speeches,
- [01:06:02.191]whilst protecting people that need protecting,
- [01:06:03.793]as in the examples so,
- [01:06:05.961]you know, I'm sure there's a panel of experts
- [01:06:08.064]somewhere that could hash out the detail
- [01:06:09.665]a bit better than we could.
- [01:06:11.267]MIKE: Alright, thank you,
- [01:06:12.268]and for the Nebraska team,
- [01:06:13.269]perhaps you also shared a disclosure,
- [01:06:14.370]a personal views,
- [01:06:15.471]but won't a regulatory body
- [01:06:17.440]be just another algorithm
- [01:06:19.075]that the general public has no access to
- [01:06:20.509]or understanding of.
- [01:06:21.577]Who watches the watchmen?
- [01:06:24.313]ERIN: So that is definitely a real concern,
- [01:06:26.015]and I think one of the big issues with
- [01:06:28.684]like fully disclosing those types of algorithms
- [01:06:31.354]to the public is that
- [01:06:32.722]those algorithms do contain
- [01:06:35.324]like personal information,
- [01:06:36.992]because the reason that you get certain content
- [01:06:39.862]on your Facebook feed
- [01:06:40.996]is because of what you like,
- [01:06:42.565]what you're interested in,
- [01:06:43.699]where your from,
- [01:06:44.900]who your Facebook friends with, et cetera.
- [01:06:46.302]So you don't want that type if information
- [01:06:48.204]just out in the open,
- [01:06:50.005]released to everyone.
- [01:06:51.407]But I think going off of that,
- [01:06:53.175]we hope that
- [01:06:54.944]the government regulation that exists
- [01:06:58.381]is not
- [01:07:00.015]some type of partisan committee,
- [01:07:02.084]and there's like cooperation between
- [01:07:04.286]the social media companies and the government
- [01:07:05.955]so a type of joint oversight
- [01:07:08.090]between each other.
- [01:07:09.625]MIKE: Thank you, to the British team,
- [01:07:12.461]which do you feel is more effective
- [01:07:14.029]at reaching a large audience,
- [01:07:15.297]a larger audience,
- [01:07:16.732]real news or fake news?
- [01:07:20.069]RICHARD: Well, it's the Mark Twain line, right,
- [01:07:22.838]the a lie can get halfway around the world
- [01:07:26.208]before the truth has it's socks on.
- [01:07:27.643]I'm not sure, in that I think,
- [01:07:30.679]I think there's something inherent
- [01:07:33.449]that people don't like to believe
- [01:07:35.084]that the news they are reading is fake.
- [01:07:38.954]People don't want their news sources
- [01:07:41.357]to be seen as untrustworthy,
- [01:07:42.792]or people to think
- [01:07:44.193]that what they're reading is untrustworthy.
- [01:07:46.395]But, people simultaneously want to read things
- [01:07:51.300]that they are pre inclined to believe.
- [01:07:54.003]So people,
- [01:07:55.004]they want to believe that
- [01:07:57.072]climate change is made up,
- [01:07:59.041]and it's not going to effect them,
- [01:08:00.743]even if the truth is that
- [01:08:02.311]it is very real
- [01:08:03.779]and it definitely is going to effect them.
- [01:08:05.781]So,
- [01:08:07.917]my long winded complicated answer
- [01:08:11.320]is that I don't know.
- [01:08:12.555](laughter)
- [01:08:15.257]MIKE: To the Nebraska team.
- [01:08:16.258]Was the recent tension with North Korea
- [01:08:17.893]a foregone conclusion,
- [01:08:18.961]or was it instigated by our,
- [01:08:20.696]the president's social media posts?
- [01:08:24.767]ERIN: Do you have any thoughts?
- [01:08:26.535]COLTON: Yeah, I would say that
- [01:08:27.536]what's really important
- [01:08:29.471]about this question
- [01:08:31.974]is that it's not a foregone conclusion yet
- [01:08:35.044]whether or not we continue aggression.
- [01:08:37.179]So I don't know for sure,
- [01:08:40.381]counter factuals as to whether or not
- [01:08:41.584]there would be
- [01:08:42.718]aggression or non-aggression
- [01:08:44.420]if we hadn't have had Twitter.
- [01:08:46.255]But what's really important for us as a public right now
- [01:08:48.256]is to
- [01:08:49.425]like really convey
- [01:08:51.660]how important it is that our government
- [01:08:54.029]doesn't act in aggressive ways
- [01:08:55.564]against North Korea right now,
- [01:08:56.631]because one of the things that I'm seeing
- [01:08:58.567]that's really worrying
- [01:08:59.635]is people just feeling that it's an inevitability
- [01:09:02.337]and not really thinking about the consequences
- [01:09:04.540]that such a conflict could have.
- [01:09:06.274]Like I don't want to see Seoul and Tokyo leveled
- [01:09:09.778]because of
- [01:09:11.479]complacency in terms of well,
- [01:09:13.649]it's you know, a foregone conclusion.
- [01:09:15.283]So I think that,
- [01:09:16.752]I don't know the answer to the counter factual,
- [01:09:18.453]but I think that we need to take a stance
- [01:09:20.956]against further aggression,
- [01:09:22.825]like right now,
- [01:09:23.859]to make sure it doesn't continue.
- [01:09:25.160](applause)
- [01:09:33.569]MIKE: For the British team,
- [01:09:34.537]how does protection of children and minors work
- [01:09:36.538]regarding social media
- [01:09:38.107]as this audience grows?
- [01:09:42.144]REBECCA: I mean I think that's a really
- [01:09:43.145]important,
- [01:09:44.580]really difficult question
- [01:09:46.148]to answer.
- [01:09:47.182]I think there certainly is regulation needed
- [01:09:48.817]to protect
- [01:09:49.852]minors and children on social media.
- [01:09:52.988]What exactly that looks like,
- [01:09:56.492]I don't know right now.
- [01:09:57.660]But that seems a pretty important group
- [01:10:00.429]that need regulation.
- [01:10:02.398]RICHARD: I definitely think
- [01:10:03.499]it's hard to know
- [01:10:05.100]because their is
- [01:10:06.135]a generational difference.
- [01:10:07.770]And I've talked to,
- [01:10:09.238]I've talked to one or two of my old
- [01:10:11.707]teachers in school
- [01:10:13.642]and they've definitely noted
- [01:10:15.878]that it's a generational difference
- [01:10:17.279]in the,
- [01:10:18.514]you know, people reaching,
- [01:10:21.283]going through,
- [01:10:22.518]growing up as a teenager and as a young person,
- [01:10:25.754]have had social media
- [01:10:28.123]as a constant background in their life,
- [01:10:31.527]and had it expected that you would take part
- [01:10:32.995]in social media.
- [01:10:34.029]Whereas we didn't.
- [01:10:35.631]I didn't get a Facebook account
- [01:10:37.066]till I was 16.
- [01:10:38.167]And that's,
- [01:10:40.369]it's hard to know the effects of that
- [01:10:42.438]as a,
- [01:10:43.606]as someone who hasn't had that experience.
- [01:10:45.541]MIKE: Alright, thank you.
- [01:10:47.309]To the Nebraska team.
- [01:10:48.310]Isn't all news effectively,
- [01:10:49.511]or any story biased to the person writing the news
- [01:10:52.548]or telling the story?
- [01:10:53.849]ERIN: Yeah, absolutely.
- [01:10:55.451]I think like what we tried to convey in our speeches
- [01:10:59.455]is that
- [01:11:00.723]yes, news will inherently be biased in many cases.
- [01:11:04.293]It involves who the reporter is talking to,
- [01:11:08.530]what story they want to cover,
- [01:11:12.001]that angle they're trying to take.
- [01:11:15.304]So,
- [01:11:17.139]this, like the news that we read is biased.
- [01:11:18.674]Like what populations they're ignoring.
- [01:11:22.144]That's a problem,
- [01:11:23.212]but,
- [01:11:24.380]there's a different between
- [01:11:25.648]a story that takes one specific angle,
- [01:11:28.851]and something that is objectively misleading.
- [01:11:32.454]So, that was what we tried to convey.
- [01:11:36.191]MIKE: Thank you.
- [01:11:37.192]To the British team.
- [01:11:38.160]Assuming an objective truth is possible,
- [01:11:40.129]why should we feel comfortable with government
- [01:11:42.564]or big business determining it for us
- [01:11:44.433]as proposed in the debate?
- [01:11:48.804]COLTON: Was that at us?
- [01:11:49.838]MIKE: The British team.
- [01:11:51.340]How they really feel.
- [01:11:53.108]RICHARD: I think
- [01:11:54.710]it is,
- [01:11:56.278]assuming that an objective truth exists,
- [01:11:58.647]I think it's too big a burden
- [01:12:01.250]to place on any individual person
- [01:12:04.053]to say that every one individual person
- [01:12:06.088]has to
- [01:12:07.156]do all the research and reading
- [01:12:09.525]and compile all the knowledge necessary
- [01:12:12.194]to
- [01:12:13.929]be aware of that.
- [01:12:15.731]I think at some point,
- [01:12:16.899]some external person,
- [01:12:19.768]or external body,
- [01:12:21.003]or something is going to
- [01:12:23.172]impart knowledge onto you,
- [01:12:24.907]or is going to
- [01:12:26.141]inform you of things you would not
- [01:12:28.944]otherwise be informed of.
- [01:12:32.214]Who that,
- [01:12:33.215]what that external body is,
- [01:12:34.750]is a matter for debate,
- [01:12:36.018]but I don't think,
- [01:12:37.119]I don't think it's realistic
- [01:12:39.321]to say that people
- [01:12:40.355]can do all work themselves.
- [01:12:42.091]REBECCA: I also think probably
- [01:12:43.125]agree with what was just said about
- [01:12:45.094]truth and not being objective,
- [01:12:48.363]and then given that,
- [01:12:49.498]the different governments might have different views
- [01:12:50.566]on quite controversial issues.
- [01:12:52.267]That's why it is something
- [01:12:54.136]that is really important to have proper accountability
- [01:12:56.171]and challenge for in terms of how
- [01:12:57.639]we let governments
- [01:12:58.941]determine what's right and what's wrong
- [01:13:01.343]and what should be allowed,
- [01:13:02.611]and what we can't discuss.
- [01:13:05.180]MIKE: Alright, thank you.
- [01:13:06.181]To the Nebraska team.
- [01:13:07.182]Do you think creating an organization,
- [01:13:09.752]perhaps like the FCC,
- [01:13:10.853]would help with creating fair regulations
- [01:13:12.921]and if so,
- [01:13:14.256]how would you go about that?
- [01:13:18.460]COLTON: In relation to
- [01:13:20.429]social media,
- [01:13:21.964]I think it would be a good precedent
- [01:13:25.033]to fit it within current regulatory regimes,
- [01:13:27.669]because if we hastily put together
- [01:13:29.671]new organizations
- [01:13:32.341]to do what
- [01:13:34.009]is essentially the job of,
- [01:13:36.278]like the FCC,
- [01:13:37.346]then it's just going to create a more complicated process.
- [01:13:39.715]And I think that, you know,
- [01:13:41.650]regulations can be good
- [01:13:43.185]but they're only good in so far as they're effective.
- [01:13:45.888]And they're effective if they're
- [01:13:48.190]done by
- [01:13:49.324]organizations
- [01:13:50.359]that know what they're doing.
- [01:13:51.360]And in so far as
- [01:13:52.995]the FCC and other federal organizations have shown
- [01:13:55.497]that they know what they're doing
- [01:13:57.099]in relation to regulating other media companies.
- [01:13:59.501]I think that we should just add to the list of duties
- [01:14:02.671]of those
- [01:14:04.373]federal agencies,
- [01:14:06.708]like social media.
- [01:14:08.110]ERIN: Going off of that,
- [01:14:09.144]I think that perception is really important here too.
- [01:14:12.014]And like the FCC isn't seen,
- [01:14:14.750]in my opinion,
- [01:14:16.518]as particularly partisan.
- [01:14:18.086]I think creating a new body
- [01:14:20.989]in this political climate,
- [01:14:22.658]specifically to regulate social media sites,
- [01:14:26.929]that this is a really contested issue.
- [01:14:29.531]I think that would be seen as
- [01:14:31.433]incredibly partisan,
- [01:14:33.335]and would cause
- [01:14:34.303]a lot of, like,
- [01:14:35.704]lack of trust in the body.
- [01:14:38.140]And that could be really problematic as well.
- [01:14:41.109]MIKE: Alright, thank you.
- [01:14:42.110]Before we
- [01:14:43.145]take the final question,
- [01:14:44.112]I'd like to remind you each
- [01:14:45.214]to mark your calendars
- [01:14:46.548]for the next E. N. Thompson forum
- [01:14:47.783]on world issues.
- [01:14:48.951]It will feature a conversation with Misty Copeland.
- [01:14:50.786]Please join us on February 13th
- [01:14:52.554]at 7:00 p.m.
- [01:14:54.156]Here at Lincoln
- [01:14:55.691]at Kimball Recital hall.
- [01:14:56.692]And our last question,
- [01:14:58.026]after I thank you again for coming
- [01:15:00.195]all the way across the pond
- [01:15:01.730]and from the UNL team as well,
- [01:15:03.131]I would like you to give us your perspective
- [01:15:05.167]and or predictions on the future of social media.
- [01:15:08.036](laughter)
- [01:15:10.239]REBECCA: What was that, sorry.
- [01:15:11.240]Our perspectives on the--
- [01:15:12.241]MIKE: Perspectives and or predictions
- [01:15:13.242]on the future of social media.
- [01:15:14.243]REBECCA: Oh, okay.
- [01:15:18.480]I think that there will be
- [01:15:20.082]some regulation.
- [01:15:22.150]I think that there's sufficient political capital
- [01:15:24.319]about
- [01:15:25.721]the influence of Russia
- [01:15:27.389]on the elections in the States,
- [01:15:29.224]that there is going to be a demand from
- [01:15:30.459]the
- [01:15:32.361]electorate to see something done,
- [01:15:34.229]see some tangible change
- [01:15:36.298]in terms of how
- [01:15:37.432]media,
- [01:15:38.934]social media is regulated.
- [01:15:39.968]What I think is really interesting
- [01:15:41.203]is there has been a simultaneous push towards
- [01:15:43.005]some kind of regulation,
- [01:15:45.440]as there has been a push from
- [01:15:47.042]social media companies themselves
- [01:15:48.844]to put forward a list of ideas.
- [01:15:50.579]Like Mark Zuckerberg
- [01:15:51.680]did a list of things that he could see
- [01:15:53.715]as being tangible changes.
- [01:15:55.284]So like including the ad revenue,
- [01:15:56.852]including the source of the advertising
- [01:15:58.887]and stuff like that.
- [01:16:00.022]I expect what will probably happen
- [01:16:02.090]is that there will be a
- [01:16:03.625]conversation between government
- [01:16:05.294]and social media
- [01:16:06.295]and an agreement between them
- [01:16:07.296]about measures that are imposed,
- [01:16:08.730]a number of statutory reporting requirements.
- [01:16:10.299]But I think the process is necessarily going to be
- [01:16:13.502]iterative of
- [01:16:14.836]because there's just so many complexities
- [01:16:17.139]in terms of
- [01:16:18.073]how conversations happen,
- [01:16:19.675]how do you define fake news, et cetera,
- [01:16:21.877]because of all the really interesting questions
- [01:16:23.378]we've had about like objective truth
- [01:16:24.513]and how minorities get represented and stuff.
- [01:16:26.581]So I think we're gonna get regulation
- [01:16:29.151]and I think social media companies
- [01:16:31.186]gonna support it
- [01:16:32.187]because they have to,
- [01:16:33.221]cause they have to show that they're really embracing
- [01:16:34.623]those challenge.
- [01:16:36.258]But I think there will be a backlash to it,
- [01:16:37.559]because I think it won't be perfect the first time round.
- [01:16:38.660]And we'll maybe get to where we need to be
- [01:16:41.630]within a few years.
- [01:16:43.131]RICHARD: Yeah, I agree with all of that.
- [01:16:45.934]I think definitely in terms of the timeframe,
- [01:16:48.236]I would expect,
- [01:16:49.871]because all these companies are US based,
- [01:16:51.807]and although this conversation
- [01:16:53.608]needs to be US driven,
- [01:16:54.609]I would expect a lot of that regulation to be
- [01:16:56.144]finalized by 2020.
- [01:16:59.748]And whatever that election ends up looking like,
- [01:17:02.084]I think
- [01:17:03.185]we're gonna have
- [01:17:04.186]broad conversations about those issues again.
- [01:17:05.721]I would say the other issue
- [01:17:07.889]that is completely different from this debate,
- [01:17:09.925]but I think is going to become a big one,
- [01:17:12.160]and there's going to be more news stories involving it,
- [01:17:14.730]is
- [01:17:15.998]the connection between people's online identity
- [01:17:18.834]and people's IRL identity.
- [01:17:21.570]Because I notice a lot of my peer group
- [01:17:24.206]and a lot of my friends,
- [01:17:25.807]whether they're working as lawyers,
- [01:17:28.744]whether they're working as teachers,
- [01:17:30.712]or whatever field they're in,
- [01:17:31.980]they have changed their names on Facebook
- [01:17:34.416]to be not their real name.
- [01:17:36.051]And they're using
- [01:17:37.019]usernames or aliases
- [01:17:38.387]on Twitter and Facebook and things
- [01:17:40.589]because they don't want to be
- [01:17:42.224]googled,
- [01:17:43.191]they don't want to be found.
- [01:17:44.192]I think that's a really interesting conversation
- [01:17:46.461]as to how that relates to
- [01:17:47.462]your ability to get jobs,
- [01:17:50.665]and your ability to be a public person
- [01:17:52.601]in the public sphere.
- [01:17:54.102]We will eventually get to a point where
- [01:17:55.871]the person who becomes the president
- [01:17:57.906]will have
- [01:17:59.074]put like badly worded tweets
- [01:18:00.509]at the age of 16.
- [01:18:01.676](laughter)
- [01:18:03.378]I think that's a world,
- [01:18:04.379]well it maybe the world we're already living in,
- [01:18:06.214](laughter)
- [01:18:07.716]but it will eventually be the world that we live in,
- [01:18:09.217]and I think the transition
- [01:18:11.653]into that being the world we live in
- [01:18:13.121]is going to be very interesting.
- [01:18:15.390]MIKE: Thank you.
- [01:18:16.391]From team Nebraska.
- [01:18:17.392]ERIN: Just on a more optimistic note,
- [01:18:19.127]I'm also really excited
- [01:18:21.063]about the use of social media,
- [01:18:22.397]specifically in politics.
- [01:18:23.932]While it seems for my political life,
- [01:18:27.202]that social media has been there
- [01:18:28.937]for all of it,
- [01:18:30.539]it's really, really new
- [01:18:32.240]and there's a lot of campaigns here in Nebraska
- [01:18:34.276]and across the country,
- [01:18:36.545]that are using social media in
- [01:18:38.180]really exciting and interesting ways
- [01:18:40.749]to engage with
- [01:18:42.384]new populations,
- [01:18:43.418]and just their voter base
- [01:18:46.788]in ways that I think even after this past election,
- [01:18:50.392]are really, really unique.
- [01:18:51.993]And I think that will continue to change.
- [01:18:53.762]And we may see more and more engagement
- [01:18:55.530]between elected officials
- [01:18:57.299]or candidates,
- [01:18:58.600]and their constituents
- [01:19:01.002]on social media,
- [01:19:02.104]so,
- [01:19:03.605]politicians and candidates using social media
- [01:19:05.273]in an appropriate way
- [01:19:07.175]is very exciting.
- [01:19:08.443]COLTON: To quote our brilliant
- [01:19:11.947]British colleagues,
- [01:19:13.682]I don't know.
- [01:19:14.716](laughter)
- [01:19:16.318]Honestly, I'll agree with what
- [01:19:19.054]everything else was said.
- [01:19:21.156]The only thing I'll add is that
- [01:19:23.391]our answers aren't fixed
- [01:19:25.494]because the technology isn't fixed,
- [01:19:26.728]and neither is our society.
- [01:19:29.197]So I think we probably
- [01:19:30.398]need to keep
- [01:19:31.533]checking in on this issue
- [01:19:32.934]as often as we need to
- [01:19:34.136]to make sure that we're being responsive to the times.
- [01:19:37.339]MIKE: Alright, thank you ladies and gentlemen.
- [01:19:38.473]Thank you for attending the Wilson Dialogue.
- [01:19:40.075](applause)
- [01:19:43.245](upbeat music)
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