Urban Wood Harvesting for Products
When communities decide to turn their urban wood waste into wood products, it
affects all levels of community forest management, beginning with the harvest of
urban trees. Traditional harvest of urban trees is costly and very timeintensive.
This session will review innovative harvest strategies for urban forests using new
technologies and equipment, and reducing both costs and time.
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[00:00:01.884]And as soon as I see that I cringe
[00:00:03.697]because we don't harvest urban wood,
[00:00:06.224]we remove the trees and then utilize it.
[00:00:08.460]So the new one, I don't know what I was thinking
[00:00:11.142]when I came up with that, the new one I came up with
[00:00:14.648]was urban tree removal transformed into wood products.
[00:00:19.110]So with that, I'll go through a little bit of my history.
[00:00:24.431]Renewable Resource Solutions is my company,
[00:00:27.945]Sustainable Resources Institute is
[00:00:30.291]a non-profit I helped establish in 2005,
[00:00:34.151]and currently I'm executive director.
[00:00:36.386]We do a lot of work throughout the Lake States.
[00:00:41.763]I was real interested to hear the public-private partnership
[00:00:44.763]Andy talked about, that's all I'm involved in.
[00:00:47.100]Just about every project I do, there's a,
[00:00:50.598]from a small level to a very huge level of partnerships.
[00:00:54.449]Previous experience, FISTA is Forest Industry Safety
[00:00:57.546]and Training Alliance, that's how I kinda got in
[00:00:59.813]to urban wood, is I worked with them
[00:01:02.292]from 1996 to 2001, and we were there
[00:01:06.276]to lower the worker comp rate for loggers,
[00:01:08.736]and a year in we started getting a lot of calls
[00:01:11.624]from arborists, saying, "We would like
[00:01:13.601]"that chainsaw training as well," and I'll tell ya,
[00:01:16.712]arborists are a lot easier to train than loggers.
[00:01:19.963]They picked up the techniques a lot quicker
[00:01:22.270]than loggers who, we've been doing it for 30 years,
[00:01:24.566]we're still alive, we're doing it right.
[00:01:26.863]So the arborists have been great to work with.
[00:01:29.971]I worked in the DNR in a position similar
[00:01:32.201]to what Adam and Heather have,
[00:01:33.705]as forest products specialist,
[00:01:35.516]and that's how I kind of formulated my business.
[00:01:38.535]Was more on forest products then,
[00:01:41.035]than in traditional forestry, and I was
[00:01:45.638]a forester with the DNR before I did forest products.
[00:01:50.039]Involved in a lot of different things,
[00:01:51.794]the top three are actually grants from the Forest Service
[00:01:56.130]Wood Marketing Team in Wisconsin,
[00:01:58.148]it's the same thing in Michigan and Minnesota,
[00:02:00.824]but they call it "Innovations Team."
[00:02:03.500]Basically that is a public-private partnership looking
[00:02:06.383]for markets, and as David said in
[00:02:10.116]the Lake States, it's been combined now.
[00:02:13.142]We're not just talking traditional, we're talking urban,
[00:02:15.948]and there's a big crossover between traditional industry
[00:02:20.131]and that, and then the urban folks.
[00:02:24.679]As Adam said, I am a contractor with the Forest Service
[00:02:27.678]Forest Products Lab, forest products specialist.
[00:02:30.868]I also have been doing master logger certification
[00:02:33.590]since 2005 in both Michigan and Wisconsin.
[00:02:37.976]Bid on a contract with Nebraska,
[00:02:40.534]and currently doing a project with them through
[00:02:43.051]the summer for timber supply in The Pine Ridge in Niobrara,
[00:02:47.771]and then a lot of what I'm talking about today
[00:02:50.099]is the work I did in Kenosha County.
[00:02:54.448]This is a grant that was first applied for in 2013,
[00:02:58.003]if anybody's ever heard of UFPA,
[00:03:00.392]Urban Forestry Products Association,
[00:03:02.749]they were back 2010, 2011, trying to get something off
[00:03:07.004]the ground to coordinate utilization of urban wood.
[00:03:11.871]They put in for a grant in 2013, Edith Makra
[00:03:15.142]and Jessica Simons were kind of the lead on that.
[00:03:18.806]Didn't get it that year, came close,
[00:03:20.689]they said, "We don't have time to do it in 2014."
[00:03:23.197]I picked it up, applied for it and we got it,
[00:03:26.021]so even though they did most of
[00:03:28.003]the work, I took over the project.
[00:03:30.853]It's a four-state project, Wisconsin,
[00:03:33.977]Illinois, Michigan and Missouri.
[00:03:38.963]And out of that is, instead of UFPA,
[00:03:43.058]this four-state group, we're calling it Urban Wood Network.
[00:03:47.560]By the end of April we're gonna have
[00:03:49.639]this website up and running.
[00:03:51.758]David mentioned the advocate by the name of Dwayne Sperber,
[00:03:55.523]I hired him six months ago to be the leader of this project.
[00:03:59.923]So you wanna talk about somebody passionate,
[00:04:02.574]I brought his name up to Adam, but I said,
[00:04:05.413]"You only got a day on your agenda,
[00:04:08.147]"Dwayne couldn't even get wound up in a day,
[00:04:11.106]"he'd be talking to you for a week."
[00:04:12.774]So he is the advocate that I have met for Urban Wood,
[00:04:17.905]and the whole idea behind this is to start regionally,
[00:04:21.717]and maybe at some point expand nationally,
[00:04:24.020]but just to provide a source, a resource for people to go to
[00:04:28.838]where we can share experiences, a whole networking concept.
[00:04:35.653]And then Wisconsin Urban Wood, they have 27 members.
[00:04:39.209]You can see arborists, advocates, municipalities,
[00:04:44.405]architects, wood product manufacturers,
[00:04:47.624]and this, again, is on a state level.
[00:04:50.610]Twink Jan-McMahon is the executive director of this,
[00:04:54.684]she's done a fantastic job of organizing
[00:04:57.124]these people, kinda what I was just talking about
[00:04:59.916]with the Urban Wood Network, she's done
[00:05:02.163]in Wisconsin along with all the members, so this
[00:05:05.860]is another great group we have going on in Wisconsin.
[00:05:12.389]Urban forestry projects I've been involved with started
[00:05:16.022]in 2003 with Urban Wood Workshops,
[00:05:18.640]and this is when I was with FISTA,
[00:05:20.388]where I mentioned we, you know,
[00:05:22.103]my trainers would come back from training the arborists,
[00:05:24.399]and they'd say, "You cannot believe the logs
[00:05:27.333]"that are getting chipped up and brought to a landfill,"
[00:05:31.025]and that's where I started working with
[00:05:33.556]the DNR Forest Products Lab, and we did three workshops.
[00:05:37.720]One in Milwaukee, one in Green Bay,
[00:05:39.486]and one in Madison that year, and there was some of
[00:05:42.972]that going on, there were several small woodworking shops,
[00:05:46.589]small portable mills that were, you know,
[00:05:50.115]doing some utilization, but there was definitely
[00:05:52.884]the area to expand in, to get a lot more done.
[00:05:59.673]And in 2009, I mentioned I worked with master loggers,
[00:06:03.858]is I had one of those loggers say, "You know what?
[00:06:06.691]"You know what we could do in a city
[00:06:08.441]"with our equipment," you know?
[00:06:10.033]They're talking about emerald ash borer
[00:06:12.617]and all the work they have to go through to remove 'em.
[00:06:15.504]He said, "When my mechanized processor, rubber tired,
[00:06:18.408]"I could go down the streets, and it would be unbelievable
[00:06:20.858]"what we could do, and we could bring
[00:06:23.149]"the forestry message to urban people."
[00:06:26.081]So we put in for the grant, and I'll talk about
[00:06:29.512]that in a little bit.
[00:06:30.914]Full Circle Grant I just mentioned,
[00:06:32.708]that the Urban Wood Network came from.
[00:06:35.999]2014 we did another demo in Winnebago County
[00:06:40.527]in conjunction with what they call the logging congress.
[00:06:44.085]It's a big logging show that they have every year
[00:06:47.590]in the Lake States, and when they did it
[00:06:49.645]in Oshkosh, Wisconsin we had the equipment right there.
[00:06:52.772]We went into the park system and did a small demo there.
[00:06:56.797]I got a few slides on that, Kenosha County,
[00:07:00.869]I've got slides on that project,
[00:07:03.118]and then the Urban Wood Network is
[00:07:05.445]the one we're just getting established
[00:07:06.954]this year, and taking off with.
[00:07:10.651]And this is "Wood Utilization Options for Urban Trees,"
[00:07:14.992]and this is put together by the Forest Products Lab.
[00:07:18.822]Brian Brashaw is a main author on that,
[00:07:21.931]and this is just something that's out there as a resource.
[00:07:25.547]They're gonna print a new version here this summer,
[00:07:29.230]so that will be coming out again.
[00:07:32.959]So really what I'm talking about today
[00:07:35.447]is urban mechanized urban tree removal and processing,
[00:07:41.105]and the advantages of rubber tired
[00:07:43.318]mechanized logging equipment.
[00:07:44.958]Can operate on streets, can reach out up to 30 feet with
[00:07:48.217]the arm to cut either a tree off in the yard,
[00:07:51.805]or it can reach up to cut the limbs off,
[00:07:55.503]and it also processes the felled tree.
[00:07:58.031]The reason it's called a processor
[00:08:00.018]is you cut the tree down, you process it right at the stump.
[00:08:03.248]You cut it up into the products.
[00:08:05.462]There's a computer in the machine,
[00:08:06.995]it'll cut it to whatever length you say.
[00:08:09.941]It runs down the tree, measures it
[00:08:12.440]and cuts it off right there.
[00:08:14.564]You want eight foot eight product
[00:08:15.986]that's what it'll cut it at,
[00:08:17.357]if you want a 10 foot product, that's what it'll cut it at.
[00:08:21.543]Top down felling if necessary, some of
[00:08:23.867]the trees we've cut with this, we couldn't cut at the stump.
[00:08:27.252]The largest tree we cut down was 27 inches at the stump,
[00:08:31.632]if it's bigger than that you could reach up 30 feet
[00:08:34.038]and start cutting limbs off, or cut the top off,
[00:08:37.077]and then in a couple cases, we just had
[00:08:38.933]the chainsaw feller cut the bole of the tree down.
[00:08:42.874]And the operator in there is trained
[00:08:45.538]in cutting and sorting products,
[00:08:47.500]so that's where you got arborists cutting down trees
[00:08:49.653]and you go to utilize them, you gotta teach 'em
[00:08:51.775]on what the products are, these guys
[00:08:53.998]are already trained on what the products are.
[00:08:56.995]And this is a little different concept
[00:08:58.576]than David was talking about with Unique Urban Wood,
[00:09:01.577]where we get enough trees to cut here,
[00:09:03.552]we can actually go into the traditional markets.
[00:09:07.331]And safer than doing the same job with a chainsaw.
[00:09:09.992]You got a guy in a cab running the equipment
[00:09:12.248]with air conditioning on, and he can,
[00:09:15.740]our record was 19 seconds to cut down and process a tree.
[00:09:19.571]The longest it took was seven and a half minutes.
[00:09:25.502]High visibility, you got this piece of machinery out there,
[00:09:28.706]if you got it on the street cutting trees down,
[00:09:30.892]you're not gonna miss it.
[00:09:32.907]The problem is, it does attract a crowd.
[00:09:35.934]Removal and processing is fast and efficient.
[00:09:40.839]City of Oak Creek, we got this grant in 2014,
[00:09:46.729]we had it all setup with this other city
[00:09:48.848]where we were gonna go do it, the DNR Forest Products person
[00:09:52.427]had told me he got, "this perfect place to do it."
[00:09:55.300]urban forester says he, "has 200 trees to take down,"
[00:09:58.162]I said, "It's perfect."
[00:09:59.589]We got the grant, we went down there,
[00:10:01.324]there was maybe 30 trees that we could take down
[00:10:03.490]with the processor, because they had power lines
[00:10:05.806]going through and it just wasn't,
[00:10:07.785]not every situation will work for these machines.
[00:10:11.463]So Department of Agriculture, who works, like,
[00:10:15.700]we heard this morning with the permitting and all that,
[00:10:20.028]said, "I got the perfect place for you.
[00:10:21.714]"City of Oak Creek, they're having all kinds of problems,"
[00:10:24.376]and the Department of Agriculture person hooked me up
[00:10:28.773]with Rebecca Lane at City of Oak Creek,
[00:10:31.008]was a city forester who was just phenomenal.
[00:10:34.036]You wanna talk about a public-private partnership,
[00:10:36.880]she handled everything, the town hall meetings,
[00:10:39.439]worked with all the different departments,
[00:10:42.049]and all I did was manage the cutting of it,
[00:10:46.267]and she just did a fantastic job.
[00:10:49.590]Talked to her first time on August 29th,
[00:10:52.220]we started cutting on November seventh,
[00:10:55.320]so she just, she was just fantastic to work with.
[00:11:00.223]Communication when we went out there,
[00:11:02.410]we had radios, the big thing we were looking at was safety.
[00:11:06.239]Rebecca says, "Well what are you looking for?"
[00:11:07.803]She says, "I have everything, I have little woodlots
[00:11:09.902]"in industrial parks, I have yard trees,
[00:11:13.077]"I've got suburban trees, I've got trees
[00:11:15.351]"in our shop yard, I've got everything you want,"
[00:11:18.754]and I said, "Let's do it all.
[00:11:19.911]"Let's see what we can do with it."
[00:11:22.220]She said, "How many trees do you want?"
[00:11:23.616]I said, "200," and at the end of the second day,
[00:11:27.816]we had five days planned, at the end of
[00:11:29.552]the second day we were at 220.
[00:11:33.758]So she said, "I can find more," so we kept cutting.
[00:11:37.842]So we ended up with 516, I'm gonna show you a video shortly.
[00:11:42.506]So the communications we had, just looking at
[00:11:46.082]the safety, we had a city truck in front of
[00:11:48.915]the processor going down the street,
[00:11:50.784]and we had another city truck with
[00:11:52.104]the forwarder that was taking the wood out.
[00:11:54.857]Our biggest problem was this guy over here, the operator of
[00:11:58.403]the harvester, or the processor, Mark Kirschling.
[00:12:02.156]He is just a phenomenal operator,
[00:12:04.280]but he likes to talk as much as he likes to cut,
[00:12:07.417]so I said, "We cannot have him talking to anybody else,"
[00:12:11.502]so only his forwarder operator could talk to him.
[00:12:15.462]So any communications we had went through her
[00:12:18.288]and it worked perfectly, because she,
[00:12:21.431]when I told her that, she said, "Thank God Don.
[00:12:23.847]"I was just terrified that what was gonna happen,
[00:12:27.191]"Mark was gonna be out of the cab more
[00:12:28.715]"than he was gonna be in it,"
[00:12:29.694]and I said, "No, we're gonna lock him in the cab."
[00:12:36.803]There are trees everywhere
[00:12:38.340]in urban and suburban settings.
[00:12:40.848]Whether you live on Oak Street, Elm Road
[00:12:43.571]or Whispering Pines Estate, you will likely see trees.
[00:12:47.789]They serve ornamental purposes, shading the driveway,
[00:12:51.164]or framing a residence, or business.
[00:12:53.724]They're also used to enhance a city's green space,
[00:12:56.819]adding shade and beauty to community parks,
[00:12:59.128]or other urban forest areas.
[00:13:02.132]Where you have trees, the maintenance
[00:13:03.990]and removal is ongoing.
[00:13:06.947]Ash trees are dropping in Oak Creek
[00:13:08.852]this week, like bugs when they've been hit by a fly-swatter.
[00:13:12.062]Actually the city Forest Department is trying
[00:13:14.278]to stop the spread of the emerald ash borer,
[00:13:16.920]a wood boring beetle from Eastern Asia
[00:13:19.370]that has already killed million of trees
[00:13:21.756]in the Midwestern United States,
[00:13:23.553]and is threatening millions more.
[00:13:25.878]It's a common scenario
[00:13:27.086]facing many municipalities, needing to remove
[00:13:30.103]a large number of trees on an ever-tightening budget.
[00:13:36.760]Today, thanks to advancements in modern logging technology,
[00:13:40.226]equipment such as the harvester and forwarder,
[00:13:42.867]typically used in forest situations,
[00:13:45.273]can provide an efficient and economical way
[00:13:47.593]to handle the removal of larger volumes of urban trees.
[00:13:56.334]A recent demonstration done by federal
[00:13:58.388]and state agencies, a municipal forestry department
[00:14:02.065]and private industry companies,
[00:14:03.955]set out to test the overall efficiency
[00:14:06.120]and cost-effectiveness of using modern logging equipment
[00:14:09.400]in an urban and suburban environment.
[00:14:12.191]Emerald ash borer is unfortunately 100% fatal
[00:14:15.287]to ash trees that are not protected.
[00:14:17.859]It's going to get to your ash trees in the cities
[00:14:20.561]if it's not already there, and one of
[00:14:23.391]the side effects of the Dutch elm disease die back in
[00:14:27.087]the 60s and 70s, was that there was
[00:14:28.988]a lot of ash planted in our communities.
[00:14:31.772]So emerald ash borer is going to have
[00:14:33.545]a dramatic impact on our communities over the coming years.
[00:14:36.690]In our particular instance with having found
[00:14:40.448]emerald ash borer in Oak Creek one year ago, we are looking
[00:14:44.898]at more removals than most cities at this time.
[00:14:47.966]We're pretty excited to get onboard
[00:14:49.783]with several hundred free removals, and a huge dent
[00:14:53.646]into our five year management plan on emerald ash borer.
[00:14:58.348]Traditional urban forestry,
[00:14:59.813]or arborist hand chainsaw crews are the norm
[00:15:02.544]for things like storm cleanup, and the removal
[00:15:05.064]of dead or diseased trees in our communities, but even
[00:15:08.692]with today's skilled workforce, there's only so much
[00:15:11.698]a chainsaw crew can accomplish in a day.
[00:15:18.891]Contrast that with the cut-to-length harvester
[00:15:21.146]and forwarder commonly used in forest situations.
[00:15:24.824]The speed and volume at which today's harvesters can fell
[00:15:27.664]and process trees is astounding.
[00:15:30.625]The urban landscape is certainly different
[00:15:32.483]from forest lands, but the speed and effectiveness
[00:15:35.530]of a harvester and forwarder in an urban environment
[00:15:38.131]will typically be much faster than
[00:15:40.133]the traditional chainsaw crews.
[00:15:47.747]We could probably remove 10 to 15
[00:15:52.575]17-inch diameter trees on a good day.
[00:15:56.882]The processor, especially if they were running smoothly
[00:16:01.302]because they knew the city, and knew
[00:16:03.038]the course of things, could probably remove 100 trees
[00:16:07.307]a day for us, if not even more.
[00:16:11.037]There are several different types
[00:16:12.546]of harvesters made to serve a variety of functions.
[00:16:16.379]Attached to the end of the boom is the harvester head.
[00:16:19.618]It comes in fixed-head, or dangle-head.
[00:16:23.084]Dangle-head harvesters are preferred by some
[00:16:25.340]because they allow for more maneuverability,
[00:16:27.766]and do not result in as much site disturbance.
[00:16:33.496]Fixed-head harvesters are larger,
[00:16:35.345]and can sever a tree and move it to
[00:16:36.852]a more convenient place to process it.
[00:16:39.691]Harvester head booms can be mounted
[00:16:41.340]on tracked or wheeled carriages.
[00:16:43.794]Wheeled harvesters are preferred in urban situations
[00:16:46.232]because they result in less ground disturbance,
[00:16:48.783]although under wet conditions, any type
[00:16:50.497]of equipment could cause damage,
[00:16:52.337]and should be used with discretion.
[00:16:54.306]Wheeled equipment can also travel to
[00:16:56.026]the next site on roads, or streets,
[00:16:58.334]whereas tracked machines would have
[00:17:00.152]to be transported by trailers.
[00:17:03.699]A forwarder works in conjunction with the harvester.
[00:17:06.726]It loads cut products into what is called a bunk.
[00:17:10.038]There are single and double sized bunks available.
[00:17:12.963]When full, the forwarder transports
[00:17:14.883]the wood products to the designated landing areas.
[00:17:18.653]The main urban locations where tree removal by
[00:17:21.080]a harvester would be appropriate are,
[00:17:23.728]along city streets, suburban roadways,
[00:17:27.304]park settings or other wooded areas.
[00:17:30.513]Harvesters should never be used
[00:17:31.950]where there are power lines running through tree canopies.
[00:17:35.444]Also be aware of obstacles that may be too close to
[00:17:37.991]the operating area, making it difficult
[00:17:40.564]for the harvester to maneuver.
[00:17:42.442]Things like pools, fences, shrubs,
[00:17:45.368]mailboxes, even pets on chains may become an issue.
[00:17:49.817]Steps necessary to the process include closing,
[00:17:52.337]or clearly marking roads with harvesting crews,
[00:17:55.464]and talking with homeowners about what will be happening.
[00:17:58.092]Good morning, we're here with the ash cutting crew.
[00:18:01.502]We'd like to start soon, and we'd like to talk
[00:18:03.360]with you before we start cutting.
[00:18:05.863]The harvester's cutting carriage
[00:18:07.350]is an ingenious apparatus.
[00:18:09.594]It's equipped with arms that grab the trunk, or limbs.
[00:18:13.312]A saw blade scissors out and cuts through the wood.
[00:18:17.272]Then rotating components are used
[00:18:19.223]to move the cut piece in one direction, or another.
[00:18:22.827]It helps with maneuverability, but also serves
[00:18:25.359]to strip away smaller branches.
[00:18:31.629]If the tree is on the smaller side,
[00:18:33.507]and there is enough adjacent space,
[00:18:35.530]the harvester will grab the tree just above ground level
[00:18:38.110]with the cutting carriage, and cut through the tree
[00:18:40.668]while the carriage and boom direct the tree to the ground.
[00:18:46.785]If the base of the tree is too big,
[00:18:48.858]or if the crown is spread out and cannot
[00:18:50.817]be safely felled as a single piece, the operator
[00:18:53.856]will cut it into several pieces from the top down.
[00:19:04.693]In some cases only the tree tops can be cut by
[00:19:07.123]the harvester, because it's over
[00:19:08.688]the diameter limit that a harvester can cut.
[00:19:11.479]In this case, safety dictates that it makes better sense
[00:19:14.487]to have a hand cutter fell the trunk of the tree.
[00:19:17.331]Once the tree is cut down, the branches
[00:19:19.382]are mechanically removed, and the tree bole
[00:19:21.870]is cut into appropriate product lengths by the harvester.
[00:19:25.539]Working in tandem with the harvester,
[00:19:27.428]the forwarder provides a quick
[00:19:28.809]and efficient way to transport the wood to a landing area,
[00:19:32.078]where it can be more easily accessed by
[00:19:33.800]a log truck or a chipper, for further processing.
[00:19:37.530]How the tree is processed is determined by
[00:19:39.500]the markets that have been identified.
[00:19:42.110]The cut sections are generally categorized
[00:19:44.234]into one of four products, the most common of which
[00:19:46.977]is firewood, generally when there is not much volume,
[00:19:50.045]or if the trees are not sizeable.
[00:19:52.727]The other products include saw logs, usually larger
[00:19:56.119]in diameter and of better quality, for sawing lumber.
[00:20:00.141]Pulpwood, usually four to 10 inches in diameter,
[00:20:03.638]and used for paper production.
[00:20:06.561]Chipper fodder, usually tops, branches
[00:20:09.224]and other materials that do not qualify
[00:20:11.367]for the other two products will be chipped
[00:20:13.599]or ground for biomass fuel, or mulch.
[00:20:16.486]We've been working to sort out the pulpwood.
[00:20:18.692]We'll be able to load that onto railroad cars.
[00:20:20.835]The tops to go to mulch, and we have several sawmills
[00:20:24.130]willing to come in and look, and hope we end up with
[00:20:26.162]a couple of trucks of saw logs.
[00:20:30.207]Experts say potential income
[00:20:31.834]from product harvested in urban environments
[00:20:33.950]is generally minimal, but the objective
[00:20:36.619]of using modern logging equipment is
[00:20:38.835]to reduce municipalities' handling costs.
[00:20:41.996]Hence, by utilizing saw logs and pulpwood,
[00:20:44.616]and possibly chips, there are less handling
[00:20:47.003]and disposal issues for municipal tree service personnel.
[00:20:51.220]The five-day urban logging demonstration in
[00:20:53.261]the city of Oak Creek enabled DNR
[00:20:55.466]and city officials to determine the time parameters,
[00:20:58.543]volume capabilities, and costs of urban logging.
[00:21:02.475]On Monday the crew removed trees from
[00:21:04.412]the city highway department and recycling center grounds,
[00:21:07.657]as well as from an urban street and a local park
[00:21:10.674]for a total of 94 trees, and that was working
[00:21:13.759]in conjunction with the video crew for most of the day.
[00:21:17.002]On Tuesday the crew worked along a rural road
[00:21:20.009]in a residential area, removing 46 trees.
[00:21:23.614]Wednesday's harvesting took place in an industrial park,
[00:21:26.651]working in wooded areas, along boundary fencing,
[00:21:29.788]and between buildings and streets.
[00:21:31.892]In all, 121 trees were removed, even with a team involved,
[00:21:36.453]and a workshop for half of the day.
[00:21:38.789]Thursday the crew continued working in the industrial park,
[00:21:41.979]a remarkable 216 trees were removed.
[00:21:45.694]On the last day, crews wrapped up in
[00:21:47.726]the industrial park removing another 39 trees.
[00:21:51.935]In all, in just one week the crew
[00:21:54.153]was able to harvest 516 trees, of that number,
[00:21:58.591]only 75 trees were less than six inches in diameter.
[00:22:02.645]A time analysis of 73 street and yard trees
[00:22:05.957]with an average stump diameter of 14.8 inches
[00:22:09.247]showed that the average cutting time
[00:22:10.808]was just under three minutes a tree.
[00:22:13.396]Total time spent felling, processing and positioning
[00:22:16.111]the 73 trees was a little more than four hours,
[00:22:19.654]with a range of between 30 seconds
[00:22:21.595]to 11 and a half minutes per tree.
[00:22:24.369]Breaking it down by machine, on the street
[00:22:26.338]and yard trees, the harvester spent one hour
[00:22:29.112]on actual tree work to every three hours of logistical time,
[00:22:33.196]such as moving between sites, planning, felling
[00:22:36.165]and processing, breakdowns and maintenance,
[00:22:38.826]and traffic and safety issues.
[00:22:41.124]That means in a 40-hour week, the harvester
[00:22:43.380]would be felling and processing for 10 hours.
[00:22:46.855]The forwarding time is harder to estimate, as it's dependent
[00:22:50.012]on the distance to the drop material point.
[00:22:52.840]However, typically the forwarder was able
[00:22:54.706]to handle five to six trees per load.
[00:22:58.391]Total cost for the project was $25,000,
[00:23:02.014]that included all costs of using the logging equipment,
[00:23:05.001]including transport to and from Oak Creek.
[00:23:08.222]In addition, the personnel time and equipment from
[00:23:10.404]the city of Oak Creek directly spent or used on
[00:23:13.198]the removal operation was also part of this total.
[00:23:16.645]That breaks down to $48.45 a tree,
[00:23:20.144]when including trees at all diameters,
[00:23:22.042]including 75 under six inches.
[00:23:25.435]Without factoring in the smaller trees,
[00:23:27.670]costs would be approximately $56.69 a tree.
[00:23:33.550]In today's economy it's essential to recognize
[00:23:36.256]there are options when dealing with urban tree removal.
[00:23:39.881]The harvester and forwarder combination is a viable option
[00:23:42.876]for urban tree removal that deserves consideration.
[00:23:45.976]It offers the opportunity for a city that's organized,
[00:23:48.771]or multiple cities, if they put together
[00:23:50.507]a whole lot of trees they wanna take down quick,
[00:23:53.260]then this offers the opportunity then
[00:23:55.151]to contract with a logger to come in on
[00:23:58.077]a daily rate and do this for them.
[00:24:00.626]When the idea was also that the loggers
[00:24:02.533]have two different times a year, spring break-up,
[00:24:05.398]and kind of a break-up that occurs about now,
[00:24:07.694]where they can't be working in the woods.
[00:24:09.705]So that equipment is sitting idle,
[00:24:12.426]and so it's an opportunity for the logger
[00:24:13.929]to use their equipment and make some revenue,
[00:24:16.234]and an opportunity for the city to reduce
[00:24:20.176]their costs of removing the trees they want to.
[00:24:22.877]While the Department of Natural Resources
[00:24:24.585]is encouraging municipalities to keep all options open,
[00:24:28.252]cutting them down is a sure-fire preventive strike.
[00:24:32.322]If your community is facing
[00:24:33.785]the need to remove greater volumes of trees,
[00:24:36.427]no matter what the reason, mechanized removal
[00:24:39.242]might be the right way to go.
[00:24:41.872]For questions about using this option
[00:24:43.700]in your community, contact Don Peterson with
[00:24:46.739]the Sustainable Resources Institute,
[00:24:49.404]or Terry Mace, Forest Utilization and Marketing Specialist
[00:24:53.456]with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
[00:24:56.393]Funding for the mechanized utilization processing
[00:24:58.921]of urban trees project, conducted in the city of Oak Creek,
[00:25:02.285]was provided in part by our Wood Education
[00:25:04.805]and Resource Center, Northeastern Area State
[00:25:07.191]and Private Forestry US Forest Service Grant,
[00:25:10.473]and the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
[00:25:13.834]Special thanks to the City of Oak Creek Forestry Division.
[00:25:22.335]Any questions on this one?
[00:25:23.615]Otherwise I'll go through the rest of the slides
[00:25:25.677]and take questions at that point.
[00:25:31.362]This is one I mentioned we did in conjunction with
[00:25:34.126]the Logging Congress, we had the equipment there.
[00:25:38.273]We found a park, actually I said, "We've got the equipment
[00:25:42.671]"at this expo, why don't we do this demonstration?"
[00:25:45.892]We couldn't find an area to do it,
[00:25:47.527]tried planning this two months ahead of time.
[00:25:50.017]Eight days before the expo, one of the urban foresters
[00:25:53.256]from Wisconsin DNR called up and said,
[00:25:55.665]"I got just the site for ya,
[00:25:56.954]"it's two miles away from the expo."
[00:25:59.267]So we got 100 cottonwoods around this pond
[00:26:01.807]that grew into a fence line, plus some in the median.
[00:26:05.545]So we went there, eight days notice,
[00:26:07.200]we advertised this and we got 43 people at the workshop,
[00:26:10.532]so I thought, "Well, this shows that we've got
[00:26:13.368]"a little bit of interest," and after Oak Creek,
[00:26:17.684]you know, Oak Creek, to me just showed phenomenal numbers,
[00:26:20.501]but we still didn't get anybody to take advantage of it,
[00:26:23.680]and part of the problem, I found out,
[00:26:25.459]is we had a lot of municipalities after that,
[00:26:28.710]called up loggers directly, and they,
[00:26:31.563]and I'll get into that a little later, but urban foresters
[00:26:36.787]and loggers don't communicate really well.
[00:26:39.337]They come from two different worlds,
[00:26:40.995]so that's what we found out was the problem.
[00:26:43.920]But this helped a lot, we got several communities come
[00:26:47.223]into this demonstration, this is another one
[00:26:49.946]where they were doing top down, showing the same tree.
[00:26:53.867]This is next to a pavilion where he went in here,
[00:26:56.537]and this is an interesting story because Ponsse wanted
[00:26:59.901]their brand-new processor out there,
[00:27:01.800]the logger who operated it had never operated
[00:27:04.146]this machine before, and he said, "the controls
[00:27:07.143]"were completely backwards" from the ones
[00:27:09.114]that he was usually operated,
[00:27:11.816]so he was learning as he went along,
[00:27:13.756]and he still cut 100 trees down that day.
[00:27:17.068]And he had one that was hanging over this pavilion,
[00:27:19.596]when we looked at it in the morning,
[00:27:20.969]he says, "I'm not gonna touch that one,
[00:27:22.501]"unless I get real cocky," and I was taking
[00:27:25.242]a group around, they said, "Look at that guy,
[00:27:26.901]"he's cuttin' it right over the pavilion!"
[00:27:28.350]And I said, "Oh, he must be comfortable," and he did.
[00:27:33.708]And this didn't show up real well,
[00:27:35.275]but we got stumps above the fence,
[00:27:37.957]only one place did they drop a tree on the fence,
[00:27:41.167]and that's where he said, "I gotta drop it on the fence,
[00:27:43.158]"there's no other place to go,"
[00:27:44.477]and the park manager said, "We want the tree down,"
[00:27:47.123]so out of 100 trees along the fence,
[00:27:50.264]one time he hit the fence, and he knew he was gonna do it.
[00:27:52.832]He said, "There's no other way to go."
[00:27:54.801]And they had this row of conifers, spruce and pine on
[00:27:57.790]the outside, and that was the big worry,
[00:28:00.544]they were gonna damage those.
[00:28:01.946]You had the fence on one side,
[00:28:03.215]you had the conifers on the other, never touched a conifer,
[00:28:06.708]so they were really excited, the Parks Department.
[00:28:11.556]Just showing the product sorted out here,
[00:28:13.608]we had the workshop that day,
[00:28:15.335]we had different groups rotating around.
[00:28:18.028]The logger actually, I'm gonna show for Kenosha,
[00:28:21.884]he didn't do this, we had a logger
[00:28:23.445]from farther North come down and do this,
[00:28:25.683]but a logger from there, he had marketed all the products.
[00:28:30.034]He went to three different mills with the cottonwood.
[00:28:33.173]There was a few other species in there,
[00:28:35.300]but everything got marketed, it was just given to the logger
[00:28:38.644]to market it, and this guy continuously tells me,
[00:28:43.430]he says, "I can market any stick of wood,
[00:28:45.319]"as long as the two ends don't meet."
[00:28:48.591]And I said, "Well if they do, all you gotta do
[00:28:50.471]"is cut a foot off, and then they won't be meeting," so.
[00:28:54.806]And this is Kenosha County Urban Tree Removal Project,
[00:28:57.835]this is the first one where it was done without any grants.
[00:29:00.874]Even though this started with a grant,
[00:29:03.260]they got an urban forestry grant to do an inventory,
[00:29:07.730]and after the inventory they figured out
[00:29:10.766]they had 5,600 ash trees that were at risk
[00:29:14.250]in two county parks, and two golf courses.
[00:29:17.812]And the assessment showed, and again,
[00:29:19.904]this is going from memory, I think at the time,
[00:29:23.197]15% were dead, and another 20 to 25%
[00:29:28.919]were infected with emerald ash borer.
[00:29:32.373]So this, is there a pointer on here?
[00:29:44.439]Am I hitting it right here?
[00:29:47.907]Oh there, right here, Petrifying Springs,
[00:29:51.894]Brighton Dale Golf Course, and then Fox River Park
[00:29:54.637]were the four areas that we went into.
[00:29:58.837]Fox River Park, it's hard to see but these green dots
[00:30:02.901]were individual trees that were inventoried,
[00:30:05.812]the blue squares in here are where there were 20
[00:30:08.356]or more trees, and the rule was
[00:30:11.731]to cut anything within 60 feet of an edge,
[00:30:15.493]and this was done for safety purposes.
[00:30:18.215]So the green marked trees were either right out in
[00:30:23.640]the open, or they were along trail systems,
[00:30:27.532]and then the squares here were along trail systems,
[00:30:34.126]but it was where there were multiple trees
[00:30:36.495]that they couldn't even, you know, if you put
[00:30:38.178]the green dots, they'd just be on top of each other.
[00:30:43.216]Brighton Dale Golf Course, this one had,
[00:30:46.241]I believe it was 600 trees in it, and mainly fairway trees.
[00:30:52.354]We had a few on the edge, but this is fairways.
[00:30:55.696]So a lot of this was pretty speedy, going down the fairways
[00:31:00.882]and just clipping the trees and a lot of these were
[00:31:04.925]what we called smaller diameter, 10 to 14 inches.
[00:31:10.897]Petrifying Springs Park and Golf Course
[00:31:13.287]are together, this is the park here,
[00:31:15.969]this is the golf course in here.
[00:31:18.516]So this is the big one, this is a total
[00:31:20.773]of 2,600 trees, and it was kind of nice
[00:31:24.178]because we jumped back and forth, depending on the weather.
[00:31:27.001]Did this in the winter, I never knew how much ice
[00:31:29.509]was in that part of the state.
[00:31:34.174]We had to, I was hoping we could get this done
[00:31:36.955]within a three to four week period,
[00:31:38.806]it took six and a half weeks just because we had
[00:31:41.224]to shut down quite often when the weather got too warm.
[00:31:44.249]Operating on the golf course, doing the rutting,
[00:31:46.500]but we only had three places where we had to cross
[00:31:53.696]an actual, you know, a fairway.
[00:31:57.060]So we were very, you know, we'd go up and down here,
[00:32:01.275]and then we'd have a central spot
[00:32:03.327]where they'd have to do the repairs.
[00:32:05.065]We marked all the sprinkler heads,
[00:32:06.903]never had an incident on the golf course.
[00:32:09.595]The park was a little different thing,
[00:32:11.125]we had one power line and one bench
[00:32:13.527]that got hurt, but that was about it, so.
[00:32:21.277]And this is just a shot in Petrifying Springs,
[00:32:25.267]the river is going through here,
[00:32:28.904]here is the, it's kind of hard to see,
[00:32:30.460]but the processor operating back here, all the products
[00:32:33.076]down here for the forwarder to come in and take out.
[00:32:39.171]This is along Fox River, processor right here
[00:32:42.706]is cutting a tree down over the river.
[00:32:45.124]It stays and pulls it back in and processes it.
[00:32:51.147]And this is on Brighton Dale Golf Course,
[00:32:54.328]the forwarder's underneath here.
[00:32:56.897]Once the guy learned to pack the brush on there crossways,
[00:33:00.777]he could put up to seven to eight tops,
[00:33:03.750]seven to eight tree tops on one load,
[00:33:06.969]and in this one, we didn't take the tops out.
[00:33:09.996]They identified some areas for us to pile the brush in,
[00:33:13.816]and we just dumped 'em in there to rot on site.
[00:33:18.488]At Petrifying Springs just about all the tops came out,
[00:33:21.679]and they were taken by a mulch company.
[00:33:26.323]Informational put up by the county
[00:33:29.458]to let the public know what was going on out there,
[00:33:34.124]and this, again, a little hard to see in here,
[00:33:36.957]but this is a green right here on the golf course,
[00:33:40.522]and processor operating on the edge,
[00:33:43.509]taking trees down where he could drop it along the side
[00:33:45.939]and pile it for the forwarder to come
[00:33:47.695]and get it, and not go on the green.
[00:33:52.896]Product piles, we had three parking lots that we used,
[00:33:57.681]there was a total of 166,000 board feet that went out
[00:34:01.790]that went to a traditional sawmill,
[00:34:04.085]and we had 1,000 cords of wood that went out either to
[00:34:06.765]the pulp mills, or to a bulk, what we call a bulk mill,
[00:34:10.655]which is small saw logs, or pulp mills.
[00:34:13.711]I believe 700 cords went for firewood.
[00:34:19.238]And then the tops, it was just given to the mulch company,
[00:34:23.940]so that was, they were pretty happy, the county was happy
[00:34:28.259]just to get rid of 'em, and here's a pile of logs
[00:34:32.206]that we had during one of our workshops.
[00:34:36.806]I was contracted to setup the removal plan,
[00:34:40.128]put the bids together, and then oversee
[00:34:43.013]the harvesting process, and basically be
[00:34:45.767]that go-between I mentioned before,
[00:34:47.724]between the county and the logger.
[00:34:52.155]And we were trying to figure out how to put
[00:34:53.894]this out on bids, and I came up
[00:34:57.064]with stump diameters is the way to separate 'em out.
[00:35:00.192]In Petrifying Springs we had 850 that were between eight
[00:35:03.696]and 18 inches, 800 between 19 and 29,
[00:35:07.983]and 150 over 30 plus, and then along the trails,
[00:35:12.167]north of the road where they were just to be felled only,
[00:35:15.338]even though the logger did take the logs out,
[00:35:17.430]the tops could be left in the woods.
[00:35:19.989]We didn't go by stump diameter there,
[00:35:22.340]and then they bid accordingly on those.
[00:35:25.990]And we did that for two reasons, one,
[00:35:28.806]the smaller the, or the less height to the stump,
[00:35:31.711]the better the county liked it,
[00:35:33.817]and then the more that logger got paid
[00:35:36.569]if he bid according to the thing,
[00:35:38.128]so it gave him incentive to cut it low.
[00:35:43.622]Here's the seven bids we got on it,
[00:35:47.001]you'll see number two is missing,
[00:35:48.762]number two was just bid on one,
[00:35:51.903]so I just, everybody else bid on all four sales.
[00:35:55.894]The lowest one I got, it was $73,200,
[00:35:59.682]the high bid we had was $1.04 million.
[00:36:03.682]So these, the two lowest ones,
[00:36:07.435]this is a logger and this is a logger here, this one was
[00:36:10.707]a tree service company that had logging equipment.
[00:36:15.080]This logger here was from 200 miles away,
[00:36:17.822]he had no idea of the product markets down there,
[00:36:20.698]so he wasn't gonna take the products, that was gonna be up
[00:36:23.299]to me to market everything that was cut.
[00:36:26.985]In the bids that went out there were specs
[00:36:29.191]that everything had to be cut to,
[00:36:30.979]all the logs a certain diameter and certain straightness
[00:36:34.197]had to be cut to these lengths.
[00:36:37.399]So the way it was setup originally was everything
[00:36:40.841]was gonna be piled, I was gonna market it.
[00:36:43.474]This guy came along, right here,
[00:36:45.677]and said, "I've got markets, I wanna market everything,"
[00:36:48.948]and I said, "Thank goodness."
[00:36:52.585]He had log trucks and everything,
[00:36:54.344]otherwise there was gonna be all kinds
[00:36:55.815]of logistical issues, but, so that worked out quite well.
[00:37:00.874]And what fascinated me with these bids,
[00:37:03.304]is the amount of money between 'em.
[00:37:05.324]The two closest bids on here were this one, second,
[00:37:11.702]and this one were 50,000 apart,
[00:37:14.151]and those were the closest ones, so lots of times on bids,
[00:37:17.756]I'm used to seeing 'em real close together,
[00:37:19.674]but you could tell these were,
[00:37:22.338]these were companies not used to doing this kind of work,
[00:37:25.286]so they were real skeptical in bidding.
[00:37:27.568]This guy, I talked to him afterwards,
[00:37:30.439]I said, "I'm guessing that you bid,
[00:37:32.934]"you added 50% to your bid just to cover the unknown,"
[00:37:35.941]and he said, "That's exactly what we did."
[00:37:42.199]Kenosha County was responsible
[00:37:44.282]for taking care of informing users
[00:37:45.987]and the public of the tree removal process,
[00:37:48.245]I said I did not want that to be part of my contract.
[00:37:50.993]I would work with the harvesting,
[00:37:52.393]and they took care of the public, and again,
[00:37:55.990]this is just a tremendous public-private partnership.
[00:37:59.353]They were phenomenal to work with.
[00:38:03.863]And then, just kind of a summary
[00:38:05.631]of making mechanized logging work in an urban setting.
[00:38:09.950]Municipality needs safe tree removal at the lowest cost.
[00:38:14.440]Logger needs clear identification of what needs to be cut,
[00:38:18.097]what product specifications, if they're only gonna be doing
[00:38:21.531]the cutting, and not marketing it,
[00:38:23.673]where can they put the wood?
[00:38:25.620]Removal specifications, like how low do
[00:38:28.061]the stumps need to be, anything else,
[00:38:32.502]like where the tops could be left in the woods,
[00:38:34.836]that's important to know.
[00:38:36.695]Safety, both for their workers,
[00:38:39.795]any county personnel out there and the public.
[00:38:43.260]One thing that blindsided me on this
[00:38:45.345]is the county told me that we get hardly any use
[00:38:48.899]in our parks in the wintertime,
[00:38:51.257]and to them, 1,000 people a day was
[00:38:53.504]a lot less than 10,000 people a day in the winter,
[00:38:57.507]and as soon as the temperature got above 20 degrees,
[00:39:00.220]there was people all over the park.
[00:39:01.765]So they had 1,000 people going through the park
[00:39:04.264]as we were cutting, and after two days we had
[00:39:06.756]to shut down the park, and not have
[00:39:08.554]any access to it by the public.
[00:39:12.726]Equipment securement's a big thing, those two pieces
[00:39:17.821]of equipment together are just over $1.2 million.
[00:39:21.877]So vandalism is a big thing, if you get
[00:39:24.705]some environmentalists that wanna make a statement,
[00:39:28.576]vandalizing that equipment isn't too hard to do,
[00:39:31.735]so equipment securement is a big thing.
[00:39:33.978]In Oak Creek we had it behind a locked fence,
[00:39:37.808]in Kenosha the logger was comfortable just putting it,
[00:39:42.482]leaving it in the park overnight with
[00:39:44.255]the roads gated off and they never had an issue.
[00:39:50.533]Problem, municipalities don't know mechanized logging
[00:39:53.376]or wood products for the most part,
[00:39:55.999]loggers don't know the urban setting
[00:39:57.863]or product markets in a lot of cases,
[00:40:00.460]and resources are wasted trying to match the two up,
[00:40:03.351]which I had mentioned earlier, was an issue we had.
[00:40:08.809]Organizer like myself, who knows timber sales
[00:40:11.226]and product markets, pre-cutting logistics setup
[00:40:14.404]and works with the logger throughout the sale.
[00:40:17.098]I had this idealistic attitude going in
[00:40:19.868]that I'd be there the first day with
[00:40:21.551]the crew in Kenosha, and I'd go once a week,
[00:40:24.213]maybe, to make sure things worked.
[00:40:26.773]I lived out there.
[00:40:28.788]I was gone one day, and the logger totally freaked out,
[00:40:31.726]and I said, "Okay, I'm here for the duration,"
[00:40:35.667]and the contract said to cut all ash trees down
[00:40:38.747]within 60 feet of the boundaries,
[00:40:41.937]and as we got into it, I said, "This isn't gonna work,
[00:40:45.492]"that I've gotta put paint on everything,"
[00:40:47.524]because we had walnut, we had box elder,
[00:40:50.093]we had hickory, and in the winter,
[00:40:52.380]no leaves on, they're all growing together.
[00:40:55.069]To have the processor operator figure out which
[00:40:57.204]was which, that was not fair to them,
[00:41:01.381]so we had paint on everything that came out.
[00:41:06.997]This is another one, have you seen this David?
[00:41:10.387](speaking away from microphone)
[00:41:11.330]Okay, this one I have not seen,
[00:41:14.150]but this is kind of in-between the two, where it is a,
[00:41:18.484]they call it a crane-truck and there's like
[00:41:20.382]a processor head that can reach up to 60 feet,
[00:41:23.470]and they use it more for yard trees, individual trees.
[00:41:26.487]I have not seen this yet, but David, you have used it in?
[00:41:31.667](speaking away from microphone)
[00:41:38.189]Okay, yeah this is, what is it,
[00:41:41.175]about a year, year that it's been out there?
(talking away from microphone)
[00:41:46.402]So are they biddin' just kinda workin' the bugs out on it,
[00:41:49.382]but it looks like a real interesting piece of equipment.
[00:41:53.350](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:41:58.305]Wow, okay, that I hadn't heard about.
[00:42:00.658](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:42:07.623]So here's the websites I had mentioned earlier,
[00:42:11.941]Altec one is there, Sustainable Inc will have
[00:42:16.352]that Oak Creek video on it, Wisconsin Urban Wood is
[00:42:21.345]the organization in Wisconsin,
[00:42:23.122]and then this will be up by the end of April
[00:42:26.550]for the Urban Wood Network.
[00:42:31.324]Any, well let me add a couple other things
[00:42:33.989]that I thought about here, is just
[00:42:37.675]because somebody operates a processor,
[00:42:39.939]does one of these cut-to-length systems,
[00:42:41.921]doesn't mean they can do it in urban situation.
[00:42:44.944]I would put one out of 10 processor's operators
[00:42:48.262]in that situation, the guy in Oak Creek,
[00:42:51.826]after two days he was a wreck.
[00:42:54.560]He said, you know, going down the streets
[00:42:57.316]and doing that, he said he, "was just twitching
[00:42:59.260]"the whole time," and then the third day we were able
[00:43:01.312]to put him in a woodlot in the industrial park,
[00:43:04.319]and he said, "I calmed down a lot."
[00:43:07.213]In Kenosha, we didn't have near
[00:43:08.911]the problem once we shut the park down.
[00:43:10.961]We didn't have a lot of people around,
[00:43:12.589]so that wasn't the issue,
[00:43:14.165]but if you're taking a lot of street trees out,
[00:43:16.980]it would be nice to mix it up with taking park trees,
[00:43:19.601]or some other areas out as well,
[00:43:22.292]because it can be nerve-racking.
[00:43:25.096]And the other thing is, you're gonna say,
[00:43:27.404]"Well that's all well and good, you know,
[00:43:29.943]"you've got cut-to-length systems
[00:43:31.580]"in Wisconsin, we're in Nebraska."
[00:43:34.646]These guys will travel anywhere.
[00:43:36.363]Right now the markets are so bad,
[00:43:39.477]you know, Eric asked me, he said, you know,
[00:43:42.902]"Well when would somebody come out?"
[00:43:44.311]And I said, "Well how many processors
[00:43:45.827]"would you like here on Monday?"
[00:43:47.970]'cause right now we're in spring break-up,
[00:43:50.300]markets have been horrible, they're lookin' for work.
[00:43:53.302]I've got one guy who did the Oshkosh project for me,
[00:43:58.245]he has had crews in South Carolina, Montana and Missouri.
[00:44:04.989]For some reason Wisconsin is the hotbed
[00:44:07.823]for cut-to-length systems, 80% of the wood
[00:44:10.586]that's cut in Wisconsin is with cut-to-length,
[00:44:13.654]our neighboring states are less than 50%,
[00:44:16.895]and so there's been a connection since
[00:44:19.332]the early 80s between Sweden and Finland and Wisconsin
[00:44:23.194]that we've got Ponsse has their main shop in Wisconsin,
[00:44:26.770]and they run a lot of stuff through Wisconsin,
[00:44:29.806]where they experiment with their equipment,
[00:44:32.404]so we have a lot of operators in Wisconsin.
[00:44:44.452](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:44:59.667](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:45:24.078]I'm glad you brought that up, because the Kenosha project,
[00:45:27.325]we put out for bids in October, 2014,
[00:45:31.034]and I told them they were dreaming
[00:45:32.653]to get a logger to come in there that winter yet,
[00:45:36.038]but actually the second highest bid said
[00:45:37.925]he'd be able to come in,
[00:45:39.268]and they said, "Is it worth that $180,000 difference
[00:45:42.314]"to do it a year early?" and I said, "No."
[00:45:44.998]So we waited a year, and in that time
[00:45:48.107]they had another 30% of the ash trees that died,
[00:45:51.884]and they said if they would've done it
[00:45:53.201]that first winter, when we put it out on bids,
[00:45:55.477]and only 15% were dead, they said they think
[00:45:59.033]they would have had, "A PR nightmare."
[00:46:01.632]Even though they realized it, to sell it to the public,
[00:46:04.275]they said they would've had a problem with it.
[00:46:06.935]By that second year, golfers were having limbs
[00:46:09.839]drop around 'em, and the awareness was there,
[00:46:13.481]and everybody I talked to, the park users that were there,
[00:46:17.384]they said, "Yeah, we don't like it, but we understand it."
[00:46:21.134]So, and I guess another thing is when you look at
[00:46:24.658]the value of doing this, is, you know,
[00:46:27.688]I've talked to several communities
[00:46:29.129]that this community has 100 trees,
[00:46:31.093]and next-door they have 200, and maybe this one has 500,
[00:46:34.738]if you combine together to come in
[00:46:37.116]with this equipment, one-way going,
[00:46:39.955]well I shouldn't say one-way, to bring both pieces
[00:46:42.674]of equipment from Fond-du-Lac down to Milwaukee,
[00:46:46.082]which is roughly 80 miles and back,
[00:46:48.203]was a $2,500 bill, just to put 'em on the low-boys.
[00:46:52.360]So to transport that equipment,
[00:46:53.985]you gotta have enough trees to make it worthwhile,
[00:46:56.708]so I would say several communities need to combine,
[00:47:00.251]and I guess get specifically to your question,
[00:47:03.401]until trees are dying, it's gonna be hard
[00:47:06.379]to convince people to show that equipment I think.
[00:47:10.081]You know, if you take out a tree here or there,
[00:47:11.797]or a few trees, but when you do a mass removal like this,
[00:47:16.125]you're gonna have to have it sold to the public.
[00:47:21.560](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:47:36.111]It is not, and I've got over 200 slides of this,
[00:47:42.593]and I always, you know, I always wanted
[00:47:44.611]to put twice as many slides as I have,
[00:47:46.453]and my office manager says I need to cut it in half,
[00:47:48.912]whatever I do, but no, it's, and there were some,
[00:47:52.848]the one day at Oak Creek, the second day,
[00:47:56.180]it was two and a half miles to get to our landing area,
[00:47:59.759]so we had two guys that took everything
[00:48:02.258]that we cut within, one was 100 yards away
[00:48:05.549]from most of our cutting, the other was
[00:48:06.973]a quarter mile that took the firewood.
[00:48:09.897]So they just cut it, they cut it down and they,
[00:48:12.204]he just cut it in pieces to fit on the forwarder.
[00:48:14.713]Some of that didn't look like he was cutting products on
[00:48:17.271]that video, he wasn't, he was just cutting it
[00:48:19.753]so it would fit on the forwarder
[00:48:21.265]and we dumped it in their yard,
[00:48:23.120]and this one guy, he said, "I'll take all you can bring me."
[00:48:25.831]We couldn't see his house afterwards, it was piled up
[00:48:28.809]over 25 feet, and he was just happier than heck.
[00:48:36.232](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:48:44.180]As far as cutting with that machine?
[00:48:50.836]No, as far as the machine, it's a lot safer in that machine
[00:48:53.863]if you got dead branches coming down, you're inside the cab,
[00:48:58.472]so no, there really isn't a difference.
[00:49:01.271]The one thing I found interesting is I've talked to
[00:49:04.016]a sawmill in Southern Michigan,
[00:49:07.043]and he told me they can't utilize any trees
[00:49:09.766]after they've been dead for five years.
[00:49:12.825]I said, "Five years?" and he says, "Yeah,
[00:49:14.592]"we can still cut a tie out of 'em
[00:49:16.603]"up to five years," so depending on the size of 'em,
[00:49:21.439]a lot of the trees that came out of Kenosha were dead,
[00:49:23.979]they still went to the sawmill.
[00:49:27.006]So it depends, they can rot, and another thing I noticed
[00:49:31.526]in Kenosha, we'd go to a clump of trees,
[00:49:33.882]or there'd be four trees there,
[00:49:35.851]one will have been dead for four years,
[00:49:38.058]one for, you know, it just recently died,
[00:49:41.034]another one would be where it had some live on it yet,
[00:49:45.008]and then the fourth one would look perfectly healthy,
[00:49:47.547]so the logger even asked me, he says,
[00:49:49.140]"Are we cutting down trees that are resistant to this,
[00:49:52.619]"or is it just a time table in here?"
[00:49:54.498]And I said, "Well if you look at it, you know,
[00:49:57.183]"all four of these trees right next to each other,
[00:49:59.835]"for some reason they're just a little healthier
[00:50:02.668]"than the next one, where the borer
[00:50:04.569]"didn't get into 'em right away," but you know,
[00:50:07.523]I said, "The other thing is we're only going 60 feet in,
[00:50:10.518]"we're leaving a lot of ash trees on that property,
[00:50:12.956]"so if there are some resistant ones in there,
[00:50:15.342]"they're still gonna be in the interior of that area."
[00:50:21.769](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:50:34.309]That they couldn't pick up you mean?
[00:50:36.337]Yeah, that's the other part of that cost
[00:50:39.144]that was in there for the $25,000,
[00:50:41.391]is they came and cleaned it up.
[00:50:44.791]Out of the $25,000 it was roughly half and half,
[00:50:47.817]$12,500 for the contractor, $12,500 for the city,
[00:50:53.021]both on prep before, work during
[00:50:55.216]the removal, and cleanup after.
[00:50:57.814](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:51:00.768]Yep, yep, and actually the tops weren't bad
[00:51:04.303]if it was still alive, the dead ones is where it shattered,
[00:51:07.176]and then as soon as they were cut down,
[00:51:08.874]they would sweep it or rake it off the road,
[00:51:11.585]and it might have been the next week
[00:51:13.009]when they came and cleaned it up,
[00:51:14.141]but they got everything off the road,
[00:51:16.254]and then the next week they came and cleaned it up.
[00:51:20.358]But I would say, 80% of the tops
[00:51:23.081]were taken out with that forwarder.
[00:51:27.093](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:51:36.226]Can you help me with that David?
[00:51:39.360]They did the inventory in 2013,
[00:51:42.080]and it had been there at least...
[00:51:46.331]In Oak Creek it was 2008.
[00:51:48.187](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:52:00.193]And one thing I wanna point out that David brought up
[00:52:03.452]is I am totally against preemptive removal.
[00:52:06.744]I mean we've had a couple communities in Wisconsin
[00:52:09.429]that there hasn't been emerald ash borer
[00:52:11.705]within 100 miles of 'em, and they've gone
[00:52:13.736]and cut every ash tree out of their community,
[00:52:16.590]and to me that makes no sense.
[00:52:18.739]It can take years and years for it to get there.
[00:52:21.682]We've got spots around Wisconsin where
[00:52:23.642]it shows up 100 miles away from any other infestation,
[00:52:28.164]and there isn't a whole lot of ash population
[00:52:30.390]immediately around it, and it doesn't seem
[00:52:32.586]to have spread yet, so I just, and I love the figures
[00:52:37.625]that David put out there showing
[00:52:39.439]that that is the costliest with the least benefits,
[00:52:42.921]is to do a preemptive removal.
[00:52:46.171]And Adam's lookin' at his watch. (laughing)
[00:52:51.524]Anything else, I'm still gonna be around here
[00:52:53.414]if you got questions, yes?
[00:52:55.020](participant speaking away from microphone)
[00:53:02.629]Absolutely, we had a huge windstorm in Wisconsin in 2011
[00:53:08.309]and the governor did the dumbest thing I ever heard of,
[00:53:10.660]he brought the National Guard in to clear 12 miles of road,
[00:53:14.573]and I said, "A processor could come in in two days
[00:53:16.866]"and clear everything that it took 40 troops
[00:53:19.428]"to do in a month and a half," and yeah,
[00:53:24.028]they have been used quite a bit in that.
[00:53:25.945]I think they could be used a lot more in urban situations.
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