Surinder Batra interview

Curtis Bright Author

04/14/2016 Added

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interview with UNMC researcher Surinder Batra

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[00:00:00.100]What's in this lab?
[00:00:01.087]So, here we grow tumor in culture.
[00:00:04.845]So instead of growing the monolayers in culture,
[00:00:07.174]we grow these tumor in the culture condition.
[00:00:10.038]And then we test all the drugs.
[00:00:13.004]Okay.
[00:00:14.223]It's gangliatic tumor grown in
[00:00:15.809]the culture condition in the lab.
[00:00:17.643]So this is grown in the lab?
[00:00:19.228]So she's culturing that one now.
[00:00:20.612]She's putting the ca-ve-tize culture in that one in there.
[00:00:24.470]So we can take from a patient, same patient,
[00:00:27.364]on which drugs are not working.
[00:00:31.594]Then, we test multiple drug on the same patient.
[00:00:33.419]We can't test we can give to them which one works.
[00:00:35.664]Instead of giving aid patient.
[00:00:37.456]Say now patient comes with the pancreatic cancer--
[00:00:39.316]Oh, so it's like your own personal--
[00:00:40.863]Personalized therapy, yes.
[00:00:43.103]So most of the time we give drug, doesn't work
[00:00:45.872]by the time patient is dead.
[00:00:47.706]So combination drug we test,
[00:00:49.048]and which is working, then we give
[00:00:50.473]that combination to the patient.
[00:00:52.063]It's a personalized therapy.
[00:00:53.366]It's a beautiful way, this study lasted two, three year,
[00:00:55.931]it came doing testing and organize, rather than testing.
[00:00:59.324]We're giving lot of co-hiden-trial to patient because
[00:01:02.966]nothing's working with pancreatic cancer.
[00:01:04.590]Systematically of evaluating those kind.
[00:01:06.956]Anti-bodies for pancreatic cancer, just like magic bullets
[00:01:11.317]for pancreatic cancer.
[00:01:12.944]So these are trying to find something
[00:01:15.683]which is out of the box,
[00:01:17.557]certain thing, and that will help more to, not just
[00:01:19.836]repeating some people have done.
[00:01:21.553]We're trying to do different approaches, very progressive.
[00:01:26.861]MUC4 is a mucin, which is not present in the pancreas.
[00:01:31.349]Normal pancreas is completely negative.
[00:01:34.662]And we are the person who purify this mucin, clone this.
[00:01:39.252]Determine the DNA sequences and we submit antibodies
[00:01:43.617]against this molecule, specific bullets.
[00:01:46.510]We have patented, we have
[00:01:48.439]all World's possible reagents on MUC4.
[00:01:51.740]MUC4 is absent in the normal pancreas and benign condition
[00:01:55.034]of the pancreas, like pancreatitis.
[00:01:57.622]In cancer, 80-90% of the patients have very high level MUC4.
[00:02:02.298]And MUC4 is now, we are using this as a marker for
[00:02:06.153]detection of pancreatic cancer from tissues,
[00:02:08.879]as well as in serum also.
[00:02:11.146]This molecule is not only a marker.
[00:02:14.354]We are showing multiple papers that this in-wall
[00:02:16.634]in the progression and metastasis of the disease.
[00:02:19.693]In the spread of pancreatic cancer,
[00:02:22.101]patient sample which has a very poor prognosis.
[00:02:26.741]Higher the level of this molecules is in the cancer tissue,
[00:02:30.176]or in the tumor, patients have very poor prognosis.
[00:02:33.757]They die very fast, so we are using this as a target
[00:02:36.442]for therapy also, and we are doing every possible way of
[00:02:39.696]targeting this molecule by using some natural product.
[00:02:43.557]Chemo-preventive, curcumin, an all that we publish.
[00:02:46.607]Grav-iola, which can downregulate this.
[00:02:48.573]Then we are using small molecule, any bit of which
[00:02:50.850]can downregulate this molecule.
[00:02:52.722]We are using master regulator of its, which call NHCO3.
[00:02:56.514]You talked to the tumor micro-environment it made.
[00:02:58.982]We're trying to understand why this molecule
[00:03:00.656]got turned on in pancreatic cancer.
[00:03:02.813]It's normally absent in the whole pancreas.
[00:03:05.056]Trying to understand the mechanism so we can target.
[00:03:07.654]We are making vaccine against this molecule.
[00:03:09.802]We're using magic bullet, radio label antibodies.
[00:03:12.731]We got all funding for this one to do.
[00:03:14.366]We are doing heavy in-wall in targeting pancreatic cancer.
[00:03:19.392]So, Nebraska, they study pancreatic cancer work.
[00:03:23.600]When I came here in '96, with recommendation of,
[00:03:27.771]at that time, there was an Associate Director of
[00:03:30.663]the Cancer Center, Margaret Tem-po, she's oncologist.
[00:03:33.727]She moved to UCS, she recruited me at that time.
[00:03:36.673]At that time, there was another investigator here,
[00:03:39.590]who recruited me, who were colleagues, Dr. Hollings-worth.
[00:03:42.174]They were working with pancreatic cancer.
[00:03:44.123]There was a strong group of pancreatic cancer people here.
[00:03:47.698]Eppley Cancer Center has history of models
[00:03:51.220]for pancreatic cancer,
[00:03:52.405]in terms of carcinogen induced mortal.
[00:03:55.724]The time has changed, now people are more auto-genetically
[00:03:58.106]linear model, but Eppley was very well known
[00:04:00.715]for pancreatic cancer when I came.
[00:04:02.219]I did to this one, now, we have the biggest resources
[00:04:04.902]for pancreatic cancer.
[00:04:06.367]We have biggest grants for pancreatic cancer.
[00:04:08.733]We have the micro-environment grant, early detection grant.
[00:04:11.625]A spoo-el for pancreatic cancer, and we are
[00:04:13.957]publishing outstanding paper for pancreatic cancer,
[00:04:16.569]which can make a difference for patients survival.
[00:04:19.382]I think we have a nice group of investigator clinicians and
[00:04:23.304]basic researcher, so it makes it very attractive for people.
[00:04:26.445]We are trying to recruit more people in pancreatic cancer.
[00:04:29.172]And we are very unique product, which we're trying to
[00:04:31.410]now evaluate in patient sample, or (mumbles).
[00:04:34.782]We are becoming now the clinical validation center
[00:04:37.198]for pancreatic cancer testing here.
[00:04:39.558]We have collected, archived and obtain sample
[00:04:42.706]from Pittsburgh, from Andy-er-son, from Mayo Clinic.
[00:04:46.843]All stages of pancreatic cancer, benign condition of
[00:04:50.102]pancreatic diseases, all, we acquire those sample.
[00:04:53.114]We'll be submitting a big grant, funded from NCA,
[00:04:56.618]to do validation trial over here.
[00:04:58.977]So, we have all in good here to do, and make
[00:05:01.457]difference for pancreatic cancer.
[00:05:03.944]When you look back over what's been made.
[00:05:05.823]We have made progress, but I don't think we have made
[00:05:08.757]a big progress for pancreatic cancer.
[00:05:10.908]When I started working on pancreatic cancer in '88,
[00:05:14.371]survival was, at that time, patient was 4 - 5%.
[00:05:18.518]Now it's 7%, it is not made a major difference in survival.
[00:05:22.573]Because disease is very bad, very aggressive, and most
[00:05:26.728]of the patients are diagnosed at a late stage.
[00:05:29.252]85% of the patients are coming at the late stage.
[00:05:31.819]We cannot do anything, we cannot do any resection
[00:05:34.262]on those patients.
[00:05:35.478]49,000 patients are diagnosed for pancreatic cancer.
[00:05:38.372]This year, will be diagnosed, and 40,000 will be dying.
[00:05:41.377]They are very late stage come.
[00:05:43.208]So, now we have tools, early we did not have tools.
[00:05:47.248]So, now, for the last three or four years, we develop
[00:05:49.703]very unique tools to test therapeutic.
[00:05:52.284]And particularly, we are gathering information.
[00:05:54.640]Hard to develop vaccine and immuno-therapy
[00:05:57.044]is becoming very, very attractive for pancreatic cancer.
[00:05:59.569]Now, in the last three to five years, we generated very
[00:06:03.625]strong tools, models, where we can do make a difference.
[00:06:07.661]I'm hoping in the coming five years, we're going to make
[00:06:10.956]a breakthrough for pancreatic cancer.
[00:06:12.954]If we don't do, the survival is very bad.
[00:06:15.315]It will be the second leading cause of cancer related
[00:06:18.643]death in the country.
[00:06:20.108]People expected by 2030, 60,000 will be dying.
[00:06:23.075]After lung cancer, pancreatic cancer
[00:06:24.557]will be the second killer.
[00:06:25.938]So, we need a lot of tools, we need a lot of trial.
[00:06:28.343]We need a lot of resources more, because now we have
[00:06:30.952]technology, earlier we did not have technology.
[00:06:33.513]Finally we have it.
[00:06:35.226]Very attractive technology came for knocking down
[00:06:38.043]jean-cripster.
[00:06:39.370]We developed animal model, we developed a lot of...
[00:06:44.108]Technology which can really targeted pancreatic cancer.
[00:06:47.241]And the hostile micro-environment, we can do combination
[00:06:50.045]therapy, so now I'm hoping that coming five years,
[00:06:52.697]we are going to make a difference.
[00:06:54.244]We are not made difference in the last 20 year.
[00:06:58.191]For the last 25 years, I'm working over,
[00:06:59.936]I've seen the surviors from 4 - 7% only, 25 year.
[00:07:02.619]And incidence has gone up.
[00:07:04.533]When I was doing it, that was 25,000 patients
[00:07:06.571]were being diagnosed, but now up around 50,000.
[00:07:09.508]So incidence has gone almost double, and the death
[00:07:12.483]rate is almost 4 - 7% improvement.
[00:07:14.809]Hope the new technology, new tools and new philanthropic
[00:07:18.395]money coming, NCA is very serious about,
[00:07:20.269]NIH is very serious about this disease.
[00:07:22.186]Lethality is very high, some people are scared now.
[00:07:25.053]They want to invest more money on this one.
[00:07:27.665]To handle this disease and hopefully we'll do it now.
[00:07:30.966]What keeps you motiv--
[00:07:32.554]I have passion for pancreatic cancer, and I started my
[00:07:35.357]research in pancreatic cancer when I joined Duke.
[00:07:38.492]I was in molecular biologist, basic biochemist.
[00:07:41.408]I was working endocrinology, so when I was the lethality
[00:07:44.465]of the disease and there was nothing working.
[00:07:46.408]I did not quit working, many people start working,
[00:07:49.156]and they see the patients are dying, and they think
[00:07:50.892]we should work on a different disease.
[00:07:52.501]I got motivated by seeing the severity of the disease
[00:07:55.393]and I'm getting motivated from the negatives.
[00:07:57.741]We test something and it doesn't work, it making me more
[00:08:00.714]motivated to think how to make it work.
[00:08:03.316]So motivation is from negatives, and are not from positives.
[00:08:05.585]Our motivation is coming from seeing the patient.
[00:08:08.509]So, we have here in Nebraska, Tony Hollings-worth
[00:08:11.763]leading the program, it appeared oppo-site program.
[00:08:13.992]We see 100 patients die, we had their body,
[00:08:16.342]their tissues collected here.
[00:08:17.580]We're learning from that to make a difference.
[00:08:19.652]And we did first step in '91, when I was a Duke as a fellow,
[00:08:23.820]and Tony Hollings-worth was there also.
[00:08:25.599]So now, we are 100 done over here.
[00:08:27.327]We have tissues, those tissue which are like each tissues
[00:08:29.962]representing a patients different
[00:08:31.740]is easy when pro-pancreatic cancer.
[00:08:33.409]There's a lot of heterogeneity pancreatic cancer.
[00:08:36.219]Patients don't respond to anything because of the bad
[00:08:39.669]tumor micro-environment, it's a hostile.
[00:08:41.726]Tumor is like a rock, so we need to understand
[00:08:44.671]why it is like a rock, how we can break that rock.
[00:08:47.556]And how we can give chemo.
[00:08:49.659]I think that answers is lying from more immuno-therapy.
[00:08:52.461]How the whole immune system can help.
[00:08:54.151]We can increase our own patient immune system
[00:08:56.499]to help to fight back the disease, or by modifying
[00:08:58.927]another thing in their environment also.
[00:09:01.814]In ten years.
[00:09:03.178]In ten year, which I'm hoping the survival will improve
[00:09:07.256]because of the new combination therapies that are coming.
[00:09:11.209]New drugs that are coming, and we are understanding more
[00:09:13.886]basic mechanism of tumor micro-environment also.
[00:09:16.899]Why hostile tumor micro-environment is there.
[00:09:19.662]How we can do combination therapy, and I have big
[00:09:23.041]hope for immuno-therapy now.
[00:09:24.981]We were doing immuno-therapy since '88.
[00:09:27.160]We did immuno-therapy in Duke also, when I was a fellow.
[00:09:30.126]But that time we didn't know what we were doing.
[00:09:32.229]Now we know how to handle immuno-therapy.
[00:09:34.334]We are model, we have organized where we can test them.
[00:09:37.676]Organize in vitro culture, very fast, rapid testing.
[00:09:40.891]We have clinical models for pancreatic cancer.
[00:09:43.821]We can re-capsulate the disease, almost
[00:09:45.382]what's happening in human.
[00:09:46.578]Where we're learning, and then we have now,
[00:09:49.053]more desire to work on this deadly, lethal disease.
[00:09:52.474]I want this lethal disease to become a chronic disease.
[00:09:56.015]And how would you describe the team?
[00:09:57.912]So we have expertise from all the way from very basic,
[00:10:01.419]all the way towards translation research.
[00:10:04.964]So, my overall team, which has
[00:10:07.841]graduate student, summer student, medical student,
[00:10:10.695]and PhD students, and going all the way to hire
[00:10:14.121]some junior faculty member.
[00:10:16.096]Then, I have collaboration in my own team.
[00:10:18.490]People have oncologist, surgeon, and I have also people
[00:10:22.357]in gastroenterologists.
[00:10:23.882]So, the team is full.
[00:10:25.325]We have pathologists, we have a complete team
[00:10:27.803]of investigators and we can handle the problem
[00:10:31.278]from very basic to how to treat the patient.
[00:10:34.410]How to deliver something and know the patient odds.
[00:10:36.349]It's almost completing we have.
[00:10:38.369]And we lot of support from the Cancer Center,
[00:10:40.176]the chancellors office and vice-chancellors office.
[00:10:42.816]They provided all resources, so a lot of the animal model
[00:10:45.416]that we developed, the resources came from vice-chanecellors
[00:10:48.674]and Cancer Center, Ken Com-mon is very supportive
[00:10:51.440]of pancreatic cancer work, and he's putting a lot of
[00:10:53.297]resources for this.
[00:10:54.612]Our Dean is very supportive, whose a person who is giving
[00:10:58.367]us a lot resources to develop more and more animal model.
[00:11:01.300]And environment is outstanding have to do pancreatic cancer.
[00:11:05.100]We want to bring more, we want to attack more, investigate
[00:11:07.573]in that area.
[00:11:09.055]Can you say your first and last name
[00:11:10.483]and spell it?
[00:11:11.357]Jennifer Larsen, L-A-R-S-E-N.
[00:11:14.617]Jennifer is J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R.
[00:11:17.094]Okay, what's your title?
[00:11:18.618]Vice-chancellor for Research, UNMC.
[00:11:23.427]At UNMC, we're blessed to have a number of famous people.
[00:11:28.341]We have great mentors, we have people who
[00:11:31.100]are known for kind of
[00:11:34.189]pitching in and being team players.
[00:11:36.251]But to be honest, we don't always see all those
[00:11:39.631]categories, or all those characteristics, in one person.
[00:11:43.332]And Dr. Batra is one of those, he is an outstanding
[00:11:46.679]investigator, he's an outstanding mentor.
[00:11:49.657]He always understands the value of working together,
[00:11:53.988]and pitching in when we need to.
[00:11:56.048]I can't say enough about how he has created a vision
[00:12:00.173]for his own department of where he would like to see,
[00:12:04.175]not only his own department, but UNMC to grow.
[00:12:07.351]Well, certainly, the fact that he is internationally known
[00:12:11.580]in pancreatic cancer, which is one of our focus areas
[00:12:15.169]within the Cancer Center, is value of itself.
[00:12:18.412]I would say, one of Dr. Batra's claim to fame is that
[00:12:22.043]I think he is the person who has submitted more grants
[00:12:25.055]than any other on campus.
[00:12:26.960]So, he is an incredibly gifted person in terms of
[00:12:31.064]seeing opportunities for new grant applications.
[00:12:34.996]And helps other people understand what opportunities
[00:12:39.052]might exist as well.
[00:12:41.939]Pancreatic cancer, as he probably shared with you,
[00:12:45.374]is one of those kinds of cancers where we do not have
[00:12:47.990]good solutions, and that often times, it becomes
[00:12:51.470]a death sentence for people who have it.
[00:12:53.708]So, looking for new ways to identify pancreatic cancer
[00:12:57.135]sooner, as well as potentially targets for new therapies,
[00:13:01.762]is very much a national interest, and certainly
[00:13:05.605]is one of ours as well.
[00:13:07.341]I think that actually the way you framed the question
[00:13:11.562]brings up the point, that what you probably noticed
[00:13:14.882]is that Dr. Batra is incredible humble.
[00:13:17.785]For all of those things he is doing on a national level.
[00:13:21.602]It's not so much that I, it's just part of his persona
[00:13:25.652]that despite all those things, he remains incredibly
[00:13:29.537]humble, which I find an unusual characteristic in
[00:13:33.757]someone who has such a national persona.
[00:13:37.860]Anything you wanna add?
[00:13:39.744]Um, I think that...
[00:13:42.822]Increasingly, as research goes forward the important
[00:13:47.894]of people working together to solve complex problems,
[00:13:51.006]like pancreatic cancer, is even more important than
[00:13:54.600]it ever was before.
[00:13:56.320]I think having leaders, like Dr. Batra, who understand
[00:14:00.170]the important of having a variety of different kinds
[00:14:04.019]of people working together, sometimes all at our own
[00:14:07.906]institution, but more often times, collaborating with
[00:14:11.916]Universities around the country, or around the World,
[00:14:16.056]as well as across the University of Nebraska.
[00:14:18.340]Is the only way we're going to solve some of these problems.
[00:14:22.105]Having leaders who understand that, and value it,
[00:14:25.377]and model that, I think is something that we need.
[00:14:30.169]And Dr. Batra's a great role model of that.
[00:14:35.130]So, as I mentioned to you from beginning.
[00:14:38.316]Pancreatic cancer is a very lethal disease.
[00:14:40.730]A lethality so high that it's becoming the
[00:14:45.809]second number killer due to cancer related death by 2030.
[00:14:49.821]So, it will be 60,000 patients will be dying
[00:14:52.564]due to pancreatic cancer by 2030.
[00:14:55.561]It's the second lead cause of cancer related death by 2030.
[00:14:59.456]The number is growing, currently it's the fourth leading
[00:15:01.428]cause of cancer related death, due to pancreatic cancer.
[00:15:04.897]45 - 40 is, I think di-a-ton number
[00:15:08.137]is expected in 2060.
[00:15:10.433]48,000 people will be diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.
[00:15:13.632]That's about 40,000 will be dying due to pancreatic cancer.
[00:15:16.951]So that rate is very high, or the survival is 70% over
[00:15:21.747]5 year period, it's a very little disease.
[00:15:24.449]Once diagnosed, it's almost death.
[00:15:27.026]It's a death sentence to person who gets diagnosed
[00:15:30.269]with pancreatic cancer.
[00:15:32.070]To control this and to make some breakthrough in
[00:15:35.797]pancreatic cancer, our group is working for the last
[00:15:39.313]20 year here, I'm working, I'm here for 20 years.
[00:15:42.262]I came in '96 here, and I knew this place
[00:15:45.372]was very known for pancreatic cancer.
[00:15:47.127]There were pancreatic cancer authorities working here,
[00:15:49.218]from beginning when I came here.
[00:15:50.853]Dr. Tem-po, she's one the leading oncologist
[00:15:53.920]in breast cancer, she was here at that time she hired me.
[00:15:56.422]Now, she's at UCSF.
[00:15:58.429]And Dr. Hollings-worth, they were here,
[00:16:00.442]internationally known people for pancreatic cancer.
[00:16:04.308]And Eppley Cancer Center is known for carcinogenesis
[00:16:07.918]model for pancreatic cancer before I came here.
[00:16:09.880]That's why I did what I did here.
[00:16:11.610]I was working with pancreatic cancer at Duke Medical
[00:16:13.778]Center before joining here also.
[00:16:15.819](coughing)
[00:16:16.968]So, make a difference in pancreatic cancer,
[00:16:18.773]there are three ways.
[00:16:20.127]We can do prevention, we can do detection and
[00:16:24.317]85% of patients are diagnosed at a very late stage,
[00:16:27.580]so we had to have something.
[00:16:30.110]We can increase stage diagnosis if we have marker.
[00:16:33.798]There are no marker right now lev-el.
[00:16:36.055]So patient come with the jaundice, pain,
[00:16:39.538]and by the time we even think, they are already metastatic.
[00:16:45.285]So what we are trying to do?
[00:16:46.868]We're working all three area of prevention, detection
[00:16:50.138]and therapeutics.
[00:16:51.694]Labs group is big here, 30 - 40 people here are working
[00:16:55.432]at various level, level of graduate student.
[00:16:59.079]Some of the student, all the way to faculty level.
[00:17:01.412]So we have an associate professor in the group working
[00:17:03.494]on pancreatic cancer.
[00:17:05.057]We have alliances with company.
[00:17:07.263]We are developing company with the-lan-cet,
[00:17:10.537]with the company like Sigh-eeg Diagnostic and
[00:17:12.425]Therapeutics company, which is a company from UNMC itself.
[00:17:15.545]And Dr. Junker is involved with that company work,
[00:17:17.898]and develop a kit for early detection.
[00:17:20.415]So this kit, what he has now been working on this kit,
[00:17:23.534]is to diagnose the sample.
[00:17:26.314]We get some biopsy sample, we do not know
[00:17:29.953]whether it's cancer or not.
[00:17:32.208]Histologically, we look in the microscope.
[00:17:34.337]Cytologically, sometimes we 50-50 chance we know
[00:17:37.468]whether it's a cancer or not.
[00:17:38.860]But this test which is developing, the kit which is going
[00:17:40.862]to go very fast.
[00:17:42.290]We're trying not doing in (mumbles) facilities,
[00:17:44.626]and it's supported by NIH for the work.
[00:17:46.594]The state of Nebraska is also supporting (mumbles).
[00:17:49.494]This test is also going towards testing various centers.
[00:17:52.619]And this is a MUC4 test, this is what you questions
[00:17:55.565]is also for what MUC4 is?
[00:17:57.571]MUC4 is not present in the normal pancreas.
[00:18:00.007]It's present in the inflammetic condition, but it is
[00:18:04.150]present, very high incidence, 80 - 90% of patient
[00:18:06.690]have a high level of pancreatic cancer, a patient have MUC4.
[00:18:10.374]So, if this test shows positive on the cell, the person
[00:18:13.895]has pancreatic cancer, 100% specific test.
[00:18:16.641]This is what Dr. Junker is developing, and hopefully
[00:18:19.959]very soon this kit is going to the market.
[00:18:22.906]Okay, so this is one area.
[00:18:24.545]Can we get some vid--
[00:18:28.939]So what we have done this target, MUC4,
[00:18:31.602]we have identify the clone, characterized, patented.
[00:18:34.858]We have all the rights to make a kit on this, our target.
[00:18:38.917]So, ver-de is preparing a perfec-tion of this antibiodies?
[00:18:42.938]Is that what you're doing?
[00:18:44.081]Yeah, we purify antibodies, and then this is
[00:18:47.282]where we use the antibody.
[00:18:49.124]We actually will use the antibody to detect
[00:18:52.160]the protein on the patient sample biopsy,
[00:18:54.580]Dr. Batra was talking about.
[00:18:56.427]And if you look here, the slides here are actually
[00:18:59.341]the product of what we've been making.
[00:19:01.308]We'll use this to section positive and negative controls.
[00:19:06.091]Then, they go on the slide and put the patient sample
[00:19:08.831]on the side, on the slide.
[00:19:10.881]Then, we'll have the yes or no answer
[00:19:13.249]to whether this patient has progression of the disease,
[00:19:15.495]or malignant disease.
[00:19:16.685]Reduction even, we are not sure by cytologically
[00:19:18.736]whether it's positive or not, but this test is showing
[00:19:22.170]you staining positive patient, chances are they have cancer.
[00:19:26.017]To determine some of the packaging, the reagents
[00:19:28.680]that will go in the kit.
[00:19:30.115]We'll try to keep manufacturing hopefully.
[00:19:33.145]If we can, we have some prototype boxes.
[00:19:35.806]Hoping to get those out for validation work
[00:19:37.814]at different centers across the nation.
[00:19:39.838](loud whirring)
[00:19:42.052]Yeah.
[00:19:44.806]This is the cap.
[00:19:46.192]So you would sen this to doctors?
[00:19:47.929]Yeah, doctors, we go into hospital for testing
[00:19:49.526]and validation, before it goes to the overall for
[00:19:51.697]the public use.
[00:19:53.050]First, we have to do validation.
[00:19:54.236]We have done couple of validation, but we're doing more.
[00:19:56.128]We're doing a lot of collaboration with the Pittsburgh
[00:19:58.996]Medical Center, (mumbles).
[00:20:00.960]I show you the next step where we are talking
[00:20:02.684]about the collaborate.
[00:20:06.438]How many samples have you screened so far with this one now?
[00:20:09.304]We've screened 40 - 50 patient samples.
[00:20:11.759]40 - 50 patient samples, this all sample.
[00:20:13.767]Those samples were from random states,
[00:20:16.141]so we, first wanted to start here,
[00:20:18.155]and figure out the kit, if (mumbles)
[00:20:21.878]and then, we went to get more samples
[00:20:24.046]from other Universities that we're collaborating with.
[00:20:26.058]Okay, thank you.
[00:20:27.305]I think when you're putting together the first two
[00:20:29.609]applications for the S-P-R-S-T-D application.
[00:20:32.077]We are asking sample from (mumbles), and UAB,
[00:20:35.138]and New York also, three other different centers.
[00:20:37.550]We are going to be validating sample before
[00:20:39.343]we go from the clear.
[00:20:42.131]Sure, Wade Junker.
[00:20:43.956]W-A-D-E-J-U-N-K-E-R.
[00:20:47.134]And your title?
[00:20:48.400]I'm a researcher, research scientist.
[00:20:52.456]CSO of SDT.
[00:20:55.453]When will this be ready for market?
[00:20:58.186]Or to send out?
[00:20:59.566]We have to complete the validation work, and then,
[00:21:02.516]bring something to market depending upon an
[00:21:04.645]application to the FDA, so this is a medical device
[00:21:07.193]that we're generating here.
[00:21:08.970]Hopefully, with a favorable response,
[00:21:11.130]there'll be a short time-frame to bring it to market.
[00:21:14.085]Prevention...
[00:21:17.487]With prevention, we can give.
[00:21:18.975]There are high risk families, there are high risk patient
[00:21:21.902]who can develop pancreatic cancer.
[00:21:23.372]Although those patients are 15%
[00:21:25.852]chronic pancreatitis, type II diabetic patient
[00:21:30.743]who come early, first time type II diabetic patient.
[00:21:34.041]The chronic pancreatitis, and some familial
[00:21:36.118]pancreatic cancer, so time to develop some natural
[00:21:39.030]products for prevention so we can give them
[00:21:41.305]who are at high risk.
[00:21:43.468]Our work is done by Dr. Zo-fer-macha.
[00:21:48.239]I don't think he's not here, he's gone.
[00:21:50.062]And he's colleague, Mar-cin.
[00:21:51.366]They're working on the prevention work,
[00:21:52.788]and they will be using some of those natural product
[00:21:54.946]in animal model to test the efficacy of those products.
[00:21:57.803]Okay.
[00:21:59.675]Early detection from tissue.
[00:22:02.043]Tissue detection is not that possible.
[00:22:05.177]Easily, because it's a nasty process.
[00:22:07.615]You go, with needle, cut the sample.
[00:22:10.830]Simple way of early detection is serum sample.
[00:22:14.284]So Dr. Core's working on developing a serum biomarker.
[00:22:18.030]And we had developed,
[00:22:20.703]we had identified serum bio-marker,
[00:22:23.086]and Dr. Core has shown the efficacy of those
[00:22:25.982]serum biomarker for early stages of pancreatic cancer,
[00:22:30.959]benign condition of pancreatitis.
[00:22:33.563]So, how this market can differentiate from
[00:22:36.654]pancreatitis versus pancreatic cancer.
[00:22:38.721]Biliary obstruction.
[00:22:40.553]We've got no clinical validation
[00:22:43.694]center grant from the NCA, in collaboration with Pittsburgh.
[00:22:47.037]So, which is, Dr. Core is validating.
[00:22:49.010]She's doing the assays for multiple.
[00:22:51.413]You can explain what assay you're doing now also.
[00:22:55.683]So, we have
[00:22:57.316]trans-(mumbles) and this (mumbles) ,
[00:23:00.043]which are deferentially expressed in pancreatic cancer.
[00:23:02.888]So we looking for the diagnostic,
[00:23:05.247]as well as prognostic (mumbles).
[00:23:07.246]Even though pancreatic cancer is very latent, and we don't
[00:23:09.889]have any early diagnostic and good prognostic test.
[00:23:12.905]So, this music which we have
[00:23:15.262](mumbles) in house success,
[00:23:17.662]we are using them for detecting pancreatic cancer
[00:23:20.694]at early stages, as well as how their response to therapy,
[00:23:24.038]and response to (mumbles).
[00:23:25.913]This using serum sample, so early I showed you
[00:23:28.762]giving tissues and recipro-cise.
[00:23:30.761]Tissue, you had to go, we don't know
[00:23:32.806]where to go in the pancreas.
[00:23:33.988]Pancreas is deep rooted.
[00:23:35.825]So pancreas is not outside the skin.
[00:23:37.538]You can take out tissue, you can diagnose.
[00:23:39.535]Pancreas, is deep rooted, you have to go through
[00:23:42.306]many organs also, and for that, it's very invasive process.
[00:23:45.727]When we get call, fine needle aspirate,
[00:23:49.935]or small biopsy.
[00:23:51.860]For that, they had to do invasive process, they had to put
[00:23:53.638]some tubing inside to do imaging on the computer,
[00:23:56.979]and then try to guess where it is, and try to do
[00:23:59.012]those invasive procedure, but still, that's the standard way
[00:24:01.879]that people are diagnosing.
[00:24:03.344]Taking tissue, doing cytology, seeing if the cancer
[00:24:05.912]is there or not.
[00:24:07.062]This way, she's developing from serum.
[00:24:08.734]Just blood, so blood best biomarker have lot of potential.
[00:24:12.437]We have made some breakthroughs in that potential.
[00:24:15.130]We are now doing validation studies in collaboration
[00:24:18.956]with University of Pittsburgh and the-brand from there.
[00:24:21.609]We're getting sample from all over the U.S..
[00:24:23.480]We're going to get it from various center.
[00:24:24.946]We're going to be validating here.
[00:24:26.170]And then, this step of we're going to move
[00:24:27.965]towards a giving usage in the clinics also.
[00:24:30.696]We'll spread down that.
[00:24:32.150]Can we get a few more--
[00:24:33.166]The graduate student, she got the best award recently.
[00:24:35.240]From the department, and she's working on the best work
[00:24:38.706]called MUC4, which we're talking about.
[00:24:40.378]She asked me MUC4, she's working on the modification
[00:24:42.577]of the MUC4.
[00:24:43.636]What is happening in the MUC4?
[00:24:44.980]Can I get?
[00:24:46.161]Show me a couple days ago about the data also.
[00:24:48.488]You pretend we're not here.
[00:24:50.409]So, explain me in the meantime as--
[00:24:52.978]So, I did the (mumbles)
[00:24:55.703]pancreatic cancer cell, CD18 and kap-pa-one.
[00:24:58.697]and (mumbles).
[00:25:00.789]It's a very good, almost gone, almost complete.
[00:25:04.024]Pittsburgh, she successfully did this experiment
[00:25:07.834]with no (mumbles).
[00:25:09.900]So, um--
[00:25:11.065]This one is (mumbles)
[00:25:12.121]and this is a control cell and these are the--
[00:25:14.232]These are the--
[00:25:15.476]What is your name again?
[00:25:16.537]My name is Seena.
[00:25:17.881]How do you spell that?
[00:25:19.141]S-E-E-N-A.
[00:25:20.928]I'm a fourth year graduate student.
[00:25:23.042]Okay, thank you.
[00:25:25.650]People who work in other cancer,
[00:25:26.832]Al-do-bar, he's working with me.
[00:25:28.218]He's working and Dr. Enid-Lach-sch-miel.
[00:25:30.620]He's working on lung cancer, not on pancreatic cancer.
[00:25:33.475]But he's working on lung cancer also.
[00:25:34.863]I just wanted to.
[00:25:36.209]I'm going to tell you some of the thing.
[00:25:38.312]Pre-clinical studies.
[00:25:39.903]So, we and a couple of few groups in the country,
[00:25:42.717]have genetically engineered animal model
[00:25:45.368]for pancreatic cancer.
[00:25:47.164]Dr. Chag-ni is an assistant professor.
[00:25:50.640]He's a director in my training.
[00:25:52.146]He has developed lot of model, here's Supi Gupta,
[00:25:54.956]graduate student, they're working together on animal.
[00:25:58.097]These are animal who are developing pancreatic cancer.
[00:26:00.707]By genetically manipulating the genes in this one,
[00:26:03.640]Dr. Ra-chang-ni is sayin, right now they are going to
[00:26:05.918]do the final experiment.
[00:26:07.184]The dissection on this one, looking at the organs
[00:26:09.986]from this one, the tumor this one,
[00:26:11.800]going to put in culture this tissue.
[00:26:14.085]So, you're trying to see--
[00:26:15.595]This is animal when they
[00:26:17.099]just come, they age, they develop cancer.
[00:26:21.361]So, we can do all the prevention studies.
[00:26:23.236]We can do therapeutic studies in this one.
[00:26:28.141]like patient clinical trial takes a lot of time.
[00:26:31.772]This is only within 10 or 20 weeks, they develop tumor.
[00:26:35.600]They can progress tumor to 50 weeks of their age.
[00:26:38.614]Then, we can do testing of therapeutics, as well biomarkers.
[00:26:42.355]We can do prevention, we are talking about.
[00:26:44.714]We can give some chemo-preventive agents in this
[00:26:47.277]animal model, see which are good, we can give to a patient
[00:26:49.480]later on, so this is a very powerful research.
[00:26:52.622]We have all modern animal model for genetically
[00:26:56.083]engineered mouse model for pancreatic cancer,
[00:26:58.118]nitro-testing biomarker, prevention and therapeutics,
[00:27:00.746]and amino therapy also we're testing in this one.
[00:27:02.538]So, he's a graduate student.
[00:27:04.139]Supi Gutpa and Dr. Chang-ni there,
[00:27:08.873]assistant professor.
[00:27:10.095]They are working together now.
[00:27:12.059]So we have the,
[00:27:13.851]I mean,
[00:27:14.789](mumbles)
[00:27:15.928]of the genetically engineered mouse model.
[00:27:17.402]So, we have the KS-activated,
[00:27:19.759]that's the (mumbles) basically.
[00:27:21.834]In order to take over cas-sit-tting, in order to
[00:27:24.199]act with the KS in the pancreas.
[00:27:26.723]So, these animal will develop
[00:27:28.350]the pan-nic lesions after 10 weeks of age.
[00:27:30.671]And cancer at 15 weeks of age.
[00:27:32.161]So we know which stage,
[00:27:35.171]which weeks the cancer is progressing.
[00:27:37.857]It's a predictor, we know when it's going to develop.
[00:27:39.524]And maybe having the tissue samples, and serum samples,
[00:27:43.393]in order to identify the early detection markers.
[00:27:47.079]As for less, we're going to take these animals
[00:27:49.379]in by using the ifferent chemo-therapeutic agents.
[00:27:52.920]Supi is doing a lot of therapeutic testing
[00:27:55.446]combination of therapeuting in animal model.
[00:27:58.849]He's a graduate student.
[00:28:00.124]Yes, we're evaluating because nothing works
[00:28:02.652]on pancreatic cancer, so we're trying to do combination
[00:28:05.113]therapy targeting tumor micro-environment.
[00:28:08.396]I'm going to go back to show you tumor micro-environment.
[00:28:10.729]Again, we're trying to develop those drug,
[00:28:13.151]but we're testing in animal model.
[00:28:14.600]We have different pancreatic models.
[00:28:16.835]We have most widely used
[00:28:19.125]KC model and KPC model.
[00:28:21.166]We have the IPM model and we have
[00:28:24.029]the acute and chronic pancreatitis models.
[00:28:27.048]And the ultimate goal is to--
[00:28:28.923]Cure! Yeah.
[00:28:30.105]The therapeutics.
[00:28:31.122]Our ultimately goal is to increase the survival of
[00:28:33.973]pancreatic cancer patient.
[00:28:35.924]So, pancreatic cancer is a very lethal disease.
[00:28:39.185]Patient survival is very short, six month.
[00:28:41.954]We want to improve the survival, and we want to
[00:28:44.723]convert pancreatic cancer to a chronic disease.
[00:28:47.821]This is our ultimate goal,
[00:28:49.451]which is very difficult to covert.
[00:28:51.733]Even you can give them a better to survival even,
[00:28:54.541]instead of six months, we can give them six years
[00:28:57.054]of survival, it would be great.
[00:28:58.438]But we wondered, our ultimate goal is to make it
[00:29:00.638]disease rather than a cancer.
[00:29:01.942]Converting cancer to a chronic disease.
[00:29:05.156]Look for transgenic?
[00:29:06.338]This is what we're trying to test right now, MUC4.
[00:29:09.273]MUC4 is being used as a testing for biomarker.
[00:29:12.025]But MUC4 is in the progression and metastisis
[00:29:14.913]of pancreatic cancer, so we're target.
[00:29:17.067]And this is animal in which we have introduce human MUC4.
[00:29:19.959]Animal model.
[00:29:21.635]Can you just talk to each other?
[00:29:22.853]Yes, so, what is the age of this animal?
[00:29:27.752]20 weeks.
[00:29:28.801]So, you're going to cut out and going to look
[00:29:30.103]for MUC4 is present or not there?
[00:29:31.448]Yeah, human MUC4, we are human MUC4.
[00:29:33.683]Okay.
[00:29:34.467]So, we going to dissect the pancreas.
[00:29:36.517]We're going to check whether the human MUC4.
[00:29:39.085]Once the expression is confirmed, we're going to
[00:29:41.522]use for a targeted vaccination.
[00:29:44.697]And you had the formulation of vaccine you're making?
[00:29:46.898]You're making the formulation of this vaccine?
[00:29:48.811]Well, no, but the another grant (mumbles).
[00:29:50.760]Okay, perfect, thank you.
[00:29:53.380]So, when we were talk about tim-ber.
[00:29:55.900]Tim-ber is just north-of cancel cells.
[00:29:57.572]so there's a lot of cells there that are not
[00:29:59.197]involved in the tumor.
[00:30:00.769]Expression of pancreatic cancer 30 - 40% of the cells
[00:30:03.774]are really cancer cells.
[00:30:05.977]The rest of the cells are fibroblast,
[00:30:07.892]endothelial cells, other cells, exocellular me-tics.
[00:30:10.824]So, what we are trying to do is, we are trying to understand
[00:30:14.479]how these different cell types talk to each other,
[00:30:17.572]and sustain the cancer.
[00:30:19.655]One of the group of molecules, is the cytokines.
[00:30:24.453]So how these cytokines mediating the crosstalk between
[00:30:28.823]cancer cell and endothelial cell.
[00:30:31.072]Cancer cell and the fibroblast.
[00:30:32.822]So, to understand this thing, we developed
[00:30:34.614]this technique here in our lab.
[00:30:36.521]What we are doing is that we are mixing
[00:30:38.234]different cell types separately.
[00:30:40.357]And creating 3-dimensional structures.
[00:30:42.538]The, we are putting those 3-dimensional structures
[00:30:44.781]in a particular combinations.
[00:30:47.228]To understand how the cancer cells and fibroblasts
[00:30:50.000]are talking to other fibroblasts, cancer cells
[00:30:53.012]and endothelial cells, important together
[00:30:54.739]how they are talking.
[00:30:55.998]So we put this in a 3-D scale
[00:30:58.683]and put them in a different combinations.
[00:31:01.097]Then we understand that we studied these combinations,
[00:31:03.746]and we understand, how these combination is effecting
[00:31:07.427]the expression of various molecules that are responsible
[00:31:10.891]for the sustain of the cancer.
[00:31:12.644]So, we are working on the MUC4 mucin.
[00:31:16.105]In pancreatic tumor, as he mentioned,
[00:31:18.843]the tumor cells are only 15 - 20%.
[00:31:21.331]80% of this mass of other cells, those other cells
[00:31:26.317]collectively, fibroblast, immune cell and so many other
[00:31:29.242]things that are there.
[00:31:30.298]Those cells are producing something called desmoplasia.
[00:31:33.439]Desmoplasia is creating a lot of collagen,
[00:31:36.296]makes tumor like a rock.
[00:31:38.826]Drugs cannot enter and nothing can work.
[00:31:41.677]So we're trying to understand, Dr. Kumar is trying
[00:31:43.797]to find what are those factors which are there
[00:31:46.605]in the tumor micro-environment creating desmoplasia.
[00:31:50.026]So then we can target the desmoplasia.
[00:31:51.986]We have a chemotherapy work very little
[00:31:53.759]on pancreatic cancer patient.
[00:31:55.351]Along with chemotherapy, if you can use those
[00:31:57.270]inhibitors, which can decrease desmoplasia,
[00:31:59.510]chemotherapy response will be very high.
[00:32:01.655]We got a grant funded from NIH.
[00:32:04.755]This was highest score granted at NCA.
[00:32:06.846]About four, five year ago,
[00:32:08.337]four, five groups are working together.
[00:32:10.090]We're the program director on this one,
[00:32:11.392]and we we're leading this program here.
[00:32:13.512]Nationally on the tumor micro-environment
[00:32:15.512]in pancreatic cancer.
[00:32:16.748]We are leading two program, one tumor micro-environment
[00:32:18.913]of pancreatic cancer, one early detection research
[00:32:22.474]network which you saw with Dr. Junker and Dr. Core.
[00:32:25.979]Third, we are doing now, SPORE specialized program
[00:32:28.407]of excellent Dr Hollings-worth.
[00:32:30.564]We're doing targeted reagent therapy in that, I showed you
[00:32:32.908]in those animal models.
[00:32:34.791]All of the--
[00:32:35.852]All of the stages, so for prevention, detection,
[00:32:39.458]and understand, yeah.
[00:32:41.669]Without understanding, we cannot do.
[00:32:43.029]The last thing I will show you, will be in our culture.
[00:32:45.310]Can I get a few more pictures of you doing--
[00:32:47.307]Could you say your name on camera?
[00:32:49.544]Hi, I'm Dr. Sushiel Kumar.
[00:32:51.744]Can you spell your whole name?
[00:32:53.408]Sushiel Kumar Sha-vo.
[00:32:54.877]How do you spell it?
[00:32:56.346]S-U-S-H-I-E-L-K-U-M-A-R.

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Surinder Batra interview

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