Violence, Religion, Financial Muscle and Liberation: Can Africa Heal Itself?
Charles Villa-Vicencio, South African Theologian
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10/18/2012
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Contemporary Africa is a victim of colonial and neo-colonial violence. Africa is also its own worst enemy, with several intrinsically viable states engulfed in a destructive synthesis of military aggression, economic chaos, cultural animosity and religious warfare. This lecture will address the encounter between positive and negative forces and ideologies in African states. It will include consideration of ‘lessons to be learned’ from the South African transition for other situations of conflict in Africa and elsewhere in the world.
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- [00:00:25.000]IN FACT, DAYS BACK AS FAR AS THE FIRST CIVILIZATION.
- [00:00:33.800]>> HISTORICAL, BRIGHT,
- [00:00:46.567]ADVANCED. COMPLEX.
- [00:00:47.633]THERE IS A COMPONENT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY.
- [00:01:03.500]>> PLAYED A ROLE WITH THE MUSLIM,
- [00:01:12.800]SO IT DOES IMPACT SOCIETY TODAY.
- [00:01:14.633]FOR EXAMPLE IN SOUTH AFRICA, I AM BECAUSE YOU ARE.
- [00:01:21.033]IT'S THE PHRASE OF SPIRITUAL HUMANITY.
- [00:01:30.200]AFRICA, REAL HUMANITY, AND THAT WILL HELP WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY.
- [00:01:39.467]>> YOU SIMPLY CANNOT HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WORLD IF YOU
- [00:01:49.900]DON'T INCLUDE RELIGION.
- [00:01:52.400]IF YOU LOOK AT CONFLICTS AND ALLIANCES ALL OVER THE WORLD,
- [00:01:56.800]RELIGION IS PROBABLY JUST AN UNDERCURRENT IN THERE THAT WE
- [00:02:01.033]REALLY HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO.
- [00:02:27.066]>> GOOD EVENING.
- [00:02:29.233]I AM PROFESSOR LLOYD AMBROSIUS IN THE U.N.L. DEPARTMENT OF
- [00:02:36.900]HISTORY AND IT'S MY PLEASURE FOR THE E.N. THOMPSON FORUM ON WORLD
- [00:02:42.233]ISSUES TO WELCOME YOU HERE THIS EVENING.
- [00:02:45.100]THIS LECTURE SERIES WAS CONCEIVED BY AND SUBSEQUENTLY
- [00:02:50.533]NAMED AFTER THE LATE E.N. JACK THOMPSON.
- [00:02:57.667]THE THEME OF THE LECTURE SERIES THIS YEAR IS RELIGION,
- [00:03:03.600]RIGHTS, AND POLITICS.
- [00:03:04.600]WE ARE GRATEFUL TO OUR PARTNERS -- THE COOPER
- [00:03:07.900]FOUNDATION FOR ITS ONGOING SUPPORT, THE LIED CENTER, NET
- [00:03:23.200]FOR THEIR CONTRIBUTION, AND LINCOLN CABLE CHANNEL 21.
- [00:03:31.633]THE LECTURE TONIGHT IS CO-SPONSORED BY U.N.L.'S
- [00:03:35.100]DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY.
- [00:03:36.767]IT IS THE OPENING KEYNOTE LECTURE FOR THE CARROLL R.
- [00:03:45.166]PAULEY MEMORIAL SYMPOSIUM.
- [00:03:50.900]THE SYMPOSIUM WILL CONTINUE TOMORROW FROM 8:30 TO 4 P.M. AT
- [00:03:58.066]THE NEBRASKA UNION AUDITORIUM.
- [00:04:00.266]YOU ARE WELCOME TO ATTEND.
- [00:04:02.133]IT IS FREE FOR THE AUDIENCE.
- [00:04:04.467]YOU CAN FIND INFORMATION FOR THE PAULEY SYMPOSIUM AT
- [00:04:11.834]HISTORY.UNL.EDU.
- [00:04:13.033]AFTER TONIGHT'S LECTURE, YOU WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
- [00:04:17.700]WRITE QUESTIONS ON CARDS PROVIDED BY THE USHERS.
- [00:04:19.233]THE USHERS WILL THEN COLLECT THOSE CARDS AND BRING THEM TO
- [00:04:22.967]THE FRONT AND WE'LL USE AS MANY OF THEM AS WE CAN FOR
- [00:04:29.734]ANSWERS AFTER THE LECTURE.
- [00:04:31.734]IT IS MY PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE TONIGHT'S SPEAKER ON THE TOPIC,
- [00:04:45.066]"VIOLENCE, RELIGION, FINANCIAL MUSCLE AND LIBERATION: CAN
- [00:04:46.467]AFRICA HEAL ITSELF?" CHARLES VILLA-VICENCIO IS A THEOLOGIAN
- [00:04:53.300]AND IS A SPECIALIST ON RECONCILIATION AND PEACE MAKING
- [00:04:59.233]AFTER CIVIL WARS OR CONFLICTS WITH AN EMPHASIS IN AFRICAN
- [00:05:07.600]COUNTRIES AND PERU.
- [00:05:08.834]HE SERVED IN THE LATE 1990s AS THE NATIONAL DIRECTOR OF
- [00:05:14.367]RESEARCH FOR THE SOUTH AFRICAN TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION
- [00:05:20.400]COMMITTEE, WORKED WITH ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU FROM
- [00:05:27.633]APARTHEID TO DEMOCRACY IN SOUTH AFRICA.
- [00:05:32.066]NOW HE DECIDES HIS TIME BETWEEN HIS HOME COUNTRY OF SOUTH
- [00:05:36.100]AFRICA, WHERE HE'S A SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW AT THE INSTITUTE
- [00:05:43.100]OF JUSTICE AND RECONCILIATION, WHICH HE FOUNDED IN 2000 IN CAPE
- [00:05:49.600]TOWN, AND IN WASHINGTON, D.C., WHERE HE IS A VISITING PROFESSOR
- [00:05:55.667]DEALING WITH CONFLICT RESOLUTION AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY.
- [00:06:04.166]NOW, HELP ME IN WELCOMING DR. CHARLES VILLA-VICENCIO
- [00:06:08.100]TO THE PODIUM.
- [00:06:09.200][APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU, CHAIRPERSON,
- [00:06:21.867]LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR THE PRIVILEGE AND THE
- [00:06:25.600]INVITATION TO MEET WITH YOU TONIGHT AND TO SPEAK WITH YOU.
- [00:06:28.333]I HOPE YOU'RE OUT THERE.
- [00:06:29.867]I CAN'T QUITE SEE YOU.
- [00:06:31.266]BUT RUMOR HAS IT THAT YOU ARE THERE.
- [00:06:35.567]I'M DELIGHTED, IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO BE WITH YOU AND TO BE TRYING
- [00:06:40.600]TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS RATHER COMPLICATED TITLE THAT I'VE
- [00:06:47.967]GIVEN THIS PARTICULAR LECTURE, "VIOLENCE, RELIGION, FINANCIAL
- [00:06:56.867]MUSCLE AND LIBERATION", BECAUSE ALL THESE THINGS ARE
- [00:07:00.300]INTERTWINED.
- [00:07:01.233]THE QUESTION IS, CAN AFRICA HEAL ITSELF?
- [00:07:06.433]I WANT TO BEGIN BY SHARING WITH YOU TWO QUOTATIONS.
- [00:07:11.166]THE FIRST ONE COMES FROM THE LATTER PART OF THE 19TH CENTURY
- [00:07:17.800]AND THE HEIGHT OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE IN SOUTH AFRICA AND
- [00:07:25.166]OTHER PARTS OF AFRICA.
- [00:07:27.333]PONDER THESE WORDS.
- [00:07:32.867]"ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS, PRAYER BOOKS IN YOUR HANDS, TAKE
- [00:07:36.967]THE GLORIOUS FIGHTING WITH TRADE CAN BE DONE, SPREAD THE PEACEFUL
- [00:07:45.633]GOSPEL WITH THE GUNS AND TELL THE SINFUL ARE THEIR HEARTS.
- [00:07:52.767]TURN THEE HEATHEN TEMPLES INTO SPIRIT MARCH AND TO YOUR
- [00:07:58.800]TEACHING THEY WILL NOT SUCCUMB, GIVE THEM ANOTHER
- [00:08:04.266]SERMON WITH THE MAXIMUM GUN.
- [00:08:05.834]WORDS THAT GO BACK TO THE WARS OF THE LATTER PART
- [00:08:13.133]OF THE CENTURY.
- [00:08:13.834]LET ME GIVE YOU ANOTHER ONE.
- [00:08:17.033]WE MUST FIGHT THE MATTER SQUARELY,
- [00:08:24.934]SAID PRESIDENT MANDELA.
- [00:08:26.266]WHERE THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IN HOW WE GOVERN OURSELVES, IT
- [00:08:30.667]MUST BE FIT THAT THE THOUGHT IS NOT IN OUR STARS,
- [00:08:37.900]BUT IN OUR SOULS.
- [00:08:39.300]WE KNOW WE HAVE IT IN OUR SOULS AS AFRICANS TO CHANGE ALL THIS.
- [00:08:42.867]WE MUST ASSERT OUR WILL TO DO SO.
- [00:08:48.800]WE MUST SAY THAT THERE'S NO OBSTACLE BIG ENOUGH TO STOP US
- [00:08:54.100]FROM BRINGING ABOUT AN AFRICAN RENAISSANCE.
- [00:09:00.934]THESE TWO QUOTATIONS EXTENDING FROM THE RIGHTS OF COLONIALISM
- [00:09:07.667]TO THE MORE RECENT DISCOVERY AND GRASPING OF DEMOCRACY IN SOUTH
- [00:09:14.266]AFRICA, AND MORE GENERALLY, WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS THE AFRICA
- [00:09:19.400]RENAISSANCE SETS THE STAGE FOR WHAT I SHALL
- [00:09:31.300]ENDEAVOR TO SAY TONIGHT.
- [00:09:35.800]COLONIALISM IS WIDELY REGARDED AS THE CONTINENT'S HOLOCAUST.
- [00:09:43.000]SO JOSEPH CONRAD, HE CELEBRATED THE DOCTRINE, CAN END THAT
- [00:09:49.300]AMAZING STORY WITH THE WORDS "EXTERMINATE THE BRUTES."
- [00:09:59.834]I BEGIN WITH A VERY BRIEF -- VERY BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF
- [00:10:04.867]COLONIALISM IN AFRICA.
- [00:10:12.266]APPROXIMATELY 10,000 AFRICAN KINGDOMS WERE REDUCED TO 40
- [00:10:20.567]STATES BY AFRICA'S WOULD-BE MASTERS IN THE BERLIN CONFERENCE
- [00:10:27.700]OF 1884-1885 WHERE AFRICA LAND WAS PARCELLED OUT WITHOUT HARD
- [00:10:34.367]TO KIN, TRIBE, ETHNICITY, MONARCH
- [00:10:42.100]MONARCHIES, CHIEFTAINS, CULTURE, OR RELIGION.
- [00:10:47.800]IT WAS HANDED OUT TO EUROPEAN MASTERS.
- [00:10:50.333]IT INCLUDED LARGE SECTIONS OF THAT LAND WHICH WAS SIMPLY
- [00:10:56.734]DESIGNATED TERROR INCOGNITO WITH BOUNDS BETWEEN COLONIES BEING
- [00:11:02.300]DECREED IN MANY INSTANCES BY THE GROWING OF GEOMETRIC LINES OR
- [00:11:07.900]THE TRACING OF RIVERS, TEARING APART CLANS AND COMMUNITIES AND
- [00:11:17.800]RENDERING NATIONS INCOMPLETE.
- [00:11:24.233]TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEMPORARY HISTORY OF AFRICA, WE'VE GOT TO
- [00:11:29.467]EXPRESS -- WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT, WE'VE GOT TO CONSIDER THE
- [00:11:34.100]GROWTH OF COLONIALISM.
- [00:11:37.367]BRITISH COLONIALISM, OF COURSE, IS EXEMPLIFIED NOWHERE MORE
- [00:11:45.934]BRUTALLY THAN IN THE BATTLE OF ABDUL AMMAN ON THE 2ND OF
- [00:11:52.834]SEPTEMBER, 1898, WHEN GENERAL KISLER CAPTURED AS WHAT IS
- [00:12:03.166]DESCRIBED BY SOME AS THE LAST FULL CAVALRY CHARGE OF BRITISH
- [00:12:12.100]HISTORY AND THE FIRST MAXIM GUN.
- [00:12:15.300]HE SLAUGHTERED SUDANESE SOLDIERS AND LEFT ANOTHER 1600 WOUNDED.
- [00:12:23.166]WHEN THE BATTLE WAS OVER, THE TASK OF LOYAL KISLER WEPT IN
- [00:12:34.500]GRATITUDE FOR THE PRICE HIS TROOPS HAD PAID.
- [00:12:39.400]HE DEMANDED THAT THE UNION JACK BE RAISED AND ASK THE TROOPS TO
- [00:12:47.600]GIVE THREE CHEERS TO QUEEN VICTORIA AND INSTRUCTED THE
- [00:12:53.967]REGIMENTAL BAND TO PLAY "ABIDE WITH ME."
- [00:12:59.033]THE BAND UNDER QUEEN VICTORIA HAD GROWN TREMENDOUSLY DURING
- [00:13:05.734]HER REIGN, AND IT HAD BEEN EXTENDED OVER 3.5 MILLION SQUARE
- [00:13:13.033]MILES THROUGHOUT OR AROUND THE GLOBE,
- [00:13:17.767]INCLUDING THE LARGER PART OF AFRICA.
- [00:13:20.633]THE NEXT STOP, OF COURSE, FOR COLONIAL FORCES AFTER THEIR
- [00:13:28.066]EXPLOITS IN SUDAN WERE IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN REPUBLIC.
- [00:13:36.100]YOU MAY RECALL THAT THE ESTIMATION OF BRITISH
- [00:13:39.834]POLITICIANS THAT THIS WAS A WAR THAT WOULD BE ALL
- [00:13:44.633]OVER IN A FEW MONTHS.
- [00:13:45.333]IT ENDURED FOR THREE YEARS.
- [00:13:50.000]AGAIN, THERE WAS THE MAXIM GUN, AND THE IDEA IS THAT SOME OF
- [00:13:56.333]THOSE EARLY MISSIONARIES WHO HAD COME TO SOUTH AFRICA FROM
- [00:14:00.200]BRITAIN AND ELSEWHERE TO PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL TO THE
- [00:14:06.066]HEATHENS NOW LEFT THEIR FLOCK AND THEY WENT OFF TO
- [00:14:11.533]JOIN THE BRITISH FORCES.
- [00:14:12.533]SOMETIMES RAISING A GUN, ON OTHER OCCASIONS,
- [00:14:17.800]CUTTING THE PRAYER BOOK.
- [00:14:19.100]THAT WAR ENDURED, AND GUERILLA FORCES WERE OFTEN BEATEN IN
- [00:14:27.834]SUBMISSION THROUGH A SCORCHED-EARTH POLICY BY THE
- [00:14:34.600]BRITISH FORCES THAT SAW 2800 WOMEN AND CHILDREN DIE IN
- [00:14:43.233]CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND MORE AFRICA SERVANTS IN MORE SEPARATE
- [00:14:48.667]CAMPS IN THIS SO-CALLED BLACK MAN'S WAR.
- [00:14:53.934]THAT IS THE STORY OF COLONIALISM.
- [00:14:56.367]IT'S THE STORY OF THE GUN.
- [00:14:59.934]IT'S THE STORY OF THE MISSIONARY.
- [00:15:04.567]THE UPSIDE OF IT, AND THE ANGLO WAR OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN WARS
- [00:15:10.433]THAT EVENTUALLY CAME TO BE CALLED WOULD EFFECT A DRAMATIC
- [00:15:19.333]SHIFT IN POLITICS AGAINST WARMONGERING WITH SUFFRAGETTES
- [00:15:29.433]IN ENGLAND TO PUT AN END TO THE NOTION
- [00:15:35.567]OF THE CONCENTRATION CAMP.
- [00:15:36.433]NEEDLESS TO SAY, SHE NEVER SUCCEEDED.
- [00:15:42.533]AND VERY SOON, THAT THOUGHT OF ENDING COLONIALISM AND BLOODSHED
- [00:15:49.767]GAVE WAY TO THE FIRST WORLD WAR, AND THE BLOODSHED BEGAN AGAIN.
- [00:15:54.800]BUT LET ME ADD ONE MORE WORD CONCERNING COLONIALISM.
- [00:16:00.600]THE SUFFERING IN AFRICA EXTENDED BEYOND THE COLONIAL PERIOD, AND
- [00:16:07.400]AS WE MOVE INTO THE ERA OF AFRICA INDEPENDENCE, THERE WERE
- [00:16:16.467]THOSE NEO AFRICAN LEADERS AND POLITICIANS WHO WERE AS
- [00:16:28.200]EXPLOITATIVE OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE AS THE OTHERS HAD EVER BEEN,
- [00:16:33.367]HENCE THE QUOTE BY NELSON MANDELA.
- [00:16:38.667]THE FAULT IS NOT IN THE STARS.
- [00:16:41.367]IT IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY IN THE COLONIAL PERIOD.
- [00:16:46.567]IT IS WE WHO HAVE TAKEN US UPON OURSELVES.
- [00:16:50.400]SO I ASK YOU TO RECALL THE BERLIN CONFERENCE OF 1884 WHERE
- [00:16:54.433]AFRICA WAS PARCELLED UP TO THOSE WHO WOULD HAVE IT.
- [00:16:59.133]TONIGHT, AND I'M AFRAID I'VE GOT RATHER A LONG LECTURE.
- [00:17:04.367]YES, I'M NOT GOING TO READ IT TO YOU.
- [00:17:06.200]THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS.
- [00:17:09.800]I WILL MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR ANYBODY WHO MAY HAVE
- [00:17:13.500]THE ENERGY TO READ IT ALL.
- [00:17:15.867]BUT I WANT TO TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT TONIGHT ABOUT TWO
- [00:17:21.233]THINGS IN AFRICA WHICH WE CANNOT IGNORE AND CANNOT PUT ASIDE.
- [00:17:23.700]THE ONE IS THE STATE OF THE AFRICAN ECONOMY,
- [00:17:30.000]AND THE OTHER IS AFRICA GOVERNANCE.
- [00:17:32.967]THESE ARE THE TWO INNOCENTS IN THE ROOM, AND ONE CANNOT DO AN
- [00:17:41.133]ANALYSIS OF THE AFRICAN PREDICAMENT WITHOUT ADDRESSING
- [00:17:46.467]THESE, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THEM.
- [00:17:48.633]I'M NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THEM SO I CAN MOVE ON TO MY PAGES AND
- [00:17:53.266]DWELL ON THOSE THINGS THAT ARE SOMETIMES CALLED THE SOFT SIDE
- [00:17:59.867]OF A CONFLICT -- CULTURE, ETHICS, RELIGION, BECAUSE THAT'S
- [00:18:05.433]WHAT I'M ASKED TO SPEAK ABOUT.
- [00:18:06.767]IF THE BRIEFEST COMMENT ON THE AFRICAN CONTINENT, 60% OF THE
- [00:18:15.900]UNDEVELOPED LAND IN THE WORLD TODAY IS IN AFRICA.
- [00:18:21.700]THERE ARE VAST RESERVES OF COAL AND OIL AND VARIOUS
- [00:18:29.734]MINERALS WAITING TO BE TAPPED.
- [00:18:32.767]THERE ARE SOME WHO WITHIN RECENT DAYS SUGGEST THAT AFRICA HAS THE
- [00:18:39.000]POTENTIAL TO COME TO THE WORLD WHAT YOUR COUNTRY, THE
- [00:18:43.900]UNITED STATES WAS EARLIER IN THE LAST CENTURY.
- [00:18:48.467]AND THERE ARE ALSO REMARKABLE STORIES OF PROGRESS ON THE
- [00:18:53.066]ECONOMIC FRONT IN AFRICA -- PLACES LIKE GHANA, WHERE OIL HAS
- [00:19:00.433]BEEN DISCOVERED, AND LIBYA AND SO ON.
- [00:19:03.834]BUT THE DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC OF AFRICAN ECONOMY IS THE HUGE
- [00:19:12.900]LOOMING AND GROWING DEBT BETWEEN THE RICH AND THE POOR.
- [00:19:16.867]I CAME ACROSS AN INTERESTING STATISTIC THE OTHER WAY.
- [00:19:25.700]I'M TOLD THE CHINESE HAVE DISCOVERED THE COEFFICIENT OF
- [00:19:30.400]THEIR COUNTRY IS 42 AND THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED FOR THEMSELVES
- [00:19:34.033]THE RAISING INEQUALITY IN THEIR COUNTRY AS A SOURCE OF MAJOR
- [00:19:39.266]SOCIAL THREAT AND UNREST.
- [00:19:44.367]I MENTION THIS ONLY THAT I POINT OUT THAT THE GENE COEFFICIENT IN
- [00:19:55.433]SOUTH AFRICA IS NOT 42.
- [00:19:57.166]IT IS 60.
- [00:20:00.166]WHICH HAS PROMPTED SOME SOUTH AFRICAN ECONOMISTS TO SAY IT
- [00:20:06.800]WILL HAVE ITS DAY BY THE YEAR 2020.
- [00:20:09.700]WE'VE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY.
- [00:20:12.633]WE'VE ALSO GOT TO TALK ABOUT AFRICA GOVERNANCE, AND I THINK
- [00:20:17.133]THIS IS HERE THAT AFRICA HAS MADE SOME REMARKABLE PROGRESS IN
- [00:20:22.734]THE INSTITUTION, THE ESTABLISHMENT, OF THE AFRICAN
- [00:20:28.567]UNION, WHICH SEEKS TO HOLD AFRICA COUNTRIES ACCOUNTABLE NOT
- [00:20:33.500]ONLY TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE BUT TO ONE ANOTHER.
- [00:20:40.300]PEOPLE WHO ARE PART OF THAT AFRICAN UNION.
- [00:20:45.000]SO IN TERMS OF AFRICAN ECONOMY AND AFRICAN GOVERNANCE, THERE IS
- [00:20:50.133]A LONG AND A SAD STORY.
- [00:20:53.066]THERE ARE ALSO SIGNALS OF HOPE.
- [00:20:55.633]BUT AS I SAID TO YOU, I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT
- [00:20:59.900]OTHER THINGS IN MORE DEPTH.
- [00:21:01.300]I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE SO-CALLED SOFT DIMENSIONS OF WHO
- [00:21:09.734]AFRICANS ARE, AND I POSE THE QUESTION, JUST WHO ARE THESE
- [00:21:16.066]AFRICAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN EXPLOITED THROUGH COLONIALISM
- [00:21:20.934]AND WHO HAVE EXPLOITED THEMSELVES THROUGH CORRUPT
- [00:21:25.066]GOVERNANCE AND AN INABILITY TO DRIVE AN ECONOMY?
- [00:21:31.467]AFRICA IS AN INTERESTING CONTINENT.
- [00:21:34.233]THERE ARE THROES WHO JOINED VIGOROUSLY IN THE AFRICA-ARAB
- [00:21:42.767]DEBATE, WHETHER AN ARAB CAN BE AN AFRICAN AND WHETHER AN
- [00:21:47.367]AFRICAN CAN BE AN ARAB.
- [00:21:49.567]IN MY OWN COUNTRY, THERE HAS BEEN A SPIRITED DEBATE AS TO WHO
- [00:21:54.800]IS WHAT TRIBE OF AFRICA, AND WE COULD CONTINUE.
- [00:21:58.033]WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ARABS AND BERBERS
- [00:22:04.600]AND THOSE WHO SPEAK AFRICAN?
- [00:22:07.633]JUST WHEN AND CAN A SETTLER EVER BECOME A NATIVE?
- [00:22:19.133]WHY IS IT THAT AFRICANS IN MANY INSTANCES SO READILY
- [00:22:29.233]APPROPRIATE, INTERNALIZE, TAKE UPON THEMSELVES, A COLONIAL OR A
- [00:22:36.066]EUROPEAN IDENTITY RATHER THAN TO CLING TO THEIR ROOTS?
- [00:22:40.934]SPEAKING AT A CONFERENCE A LITTLE WHILE AGO, A SOUTH
- [00:22:45.934]AFRICAN AUTHOR SOME OF YOU WILL RECOGNIZE HIS NAME, BRIGHTEN
- [00:22:58.533]BRIGHTENBACH FOCUSED ON THE IDEAS THAT GIVE IDENTITY SHAPE
- [00:23:03.033]AND FORM TO THE AFRICAN PEOPLE.
- [00:23:06.367]HE ASKED SOMEWHAT PROVOCATIVELY, IN WHOSE BORROWED CLOTHES ARE
- [00:23:12.333]THESE AFRICANS, ESPECIALLY ELITE AFRICANS, SEEKING TO LOOK?
- [00:23:23.567]IS THIS WILLINGNESS TO BORROW AND TO PROCREATE THE VALUES FROM
- [00:23:34.667]COLONIALISTS A NEGATIVE OR A POSITIVE INGREDIENT?
- [00:23:40.000]WHAT IS COLONIALISM, GLOBAL REALITIES, AFRICAN POLITICS, AND
- [00:23:44.433]THE TALK OF AN AFRICAN RENAISSANCE?
- [00:23:47.233]HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
- [00:23:49.066]AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
- [00:23:53.667]I THIS EVENING WANT TO ADDRESS JUST IN A LITTLE MORE DEPTH
- [00:23:59.800]THREE TOPICS IN RELATION TO WHO IS AN AFRICAN,
- [00:24:09.367]IN THE DEPTHS OF HIS OR HER SOUL.
- [00:24:12.300]AND THE FIRST TOPIC I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS -- I HOPE IT DOESN'T
- [00:24:18.166]SEEM TOO FAR AWAY -- IS THE ISSUE OF LANGUAGE AND CULTURE.
- [00:24:25.200]YOU KNOW, THE AFRICA ACCESS TO THE BENEFITS OF SETTLERS AND
- [00:24:33.200]MISSIONARIES AND COLONIAL AUTHORITIES WAS PRIMARILY
- [00:24:37.300]THROUGH THEIR ABILITY TO BECOME EFFICIENT IN
- [00:24:44.400]THE COLONIAL TONGUE OR LANGUAGE.
- [00:24:47.066]SO IF YOU WANTED TO SUCCEED AS AN AFRICAN, IF YOU WANTED TO
- [00:24:50.100]BENEFIT FROM THE COURSES THAT THE COLONIALISM'S WERE OFFERING,
- [00:24:57.967]YOU'D BETTER SPEAK ENGLAND OR FRENCH OR DUTCH
- [00:25:04.667]AND THAT WAS YOUR GATEWAY IN.
- [00:25:06.667]THERE WERE MANY AFRICAN POETS, MUSICIANS, WHO ARE THE PRODUCTS
- [00:25:20.433]OF RELIGIOUS MISSIONARIES WHO CAME TO AFRICA AND OFFERED A
- [00:25:25.900]CERTAIN KIND OF EDUCATION.
- [00:25:27.533]BUT THIS ACCESS TO THE COLONIAL TONGUE, OF COURSE, SEPARATED
- [00:25:31.633]THEM FROM THE SO-CALLED UNSCHOOLED AFRICANS WHO DID NOT
- [00:25:47.333]GO TO SCHOOL, AND SOME FELT IT WAS THE MISSION-EDUCATED PEOPLE
- [00:25:50.033]OVER THE NON-MISSION-EDUCATED PEOPLE THAT CREATED THIS HUGE
- [00:25:56.467]GULF IN AFRICAN IDEALS AND POLITICS.
- [00:25:59.066]THE QUESTION WAS, AND THE QUESTION IS, WHETHER THOSE
- [00:26:04.467]AFRICAN LEADERS VERSED IN THE TONGUE AND ABILITY COULD IN ANY
- [00:26:09.734]WAY RELATE TO THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO THE SOCIAL ENGLISH
- [00:26:16.700]SOCIAL CRITICS ONCE REFERRED TO AS "THE GREAT UNWASHED."
- [00:26:23.467]SO THERE WAS THE ELITE AND THERE WAS THE REST --
- [00:26:28.233]THE GREAT UNWASHED.
- [00:26:29.500]THERE IS THIS DEBATE AMONGST AFRICAN SCHOLARS, ESPECIALLY IN
- [00:26:34.700]RECENT YEARS, AS TO WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITY IS OF THOSE ELITE
- [00:26:39.934]IN RELATION TO THE UNEDUCATED MASSES.
- [00:26:46.100]AND ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING DEVELOPMENTS, AND LET ME DELVE A
- [00:26:53.533]LITTLE BIT INTO SOUTH AFRICAN HISTORY HERE.
- [00:26:57.700]ONE OF THE RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN HISTORY IS THIS.
- [00:27:01.600]THERE ARE THOSE YOUNGER BLACK AFRICAN SCHOLARS WHO ARE
- [00:27:06.300]BEGINNING TO QUESTION THE SEVERE RENAISSANCE, A PROCESS OF
- [00:27:14.033]RESISTANCE IN WHICH PEOPLE LIKE MANDELA SHARED, AND YOU REMEMBER
- [00:27:19.500]THAT IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN HISTORY THAT ONE
- [00:27:25.367]OF THE FAMOUS LITERARY EFFORTS OF THE PERIODS, ONE OF THE
- [00:27:33.400]FAMOUS MEDIA OF THE PERIOD WAS DRUM MAGAZINE, WRITTEN IN
- [00:27:39.600]ENGLISH, AND THESE YOUNG SCHOLARS IN A VERY POLITICALLY
- [00:27:44.400]INCORRECT WAY, ARE BEGINNING TO ARGUE THAT THE FACT OF THE
- [00:27:53.100]RENAISSANCE, DRUM MAGAZINE, BEEN WRITTEN IN EDUCATED TONGUE OF
- [00:27:56.667]THE COLONIAL MASTER WAS WHAT UNDERMINED THE ABILITY OF
- [00:28:01.867]ORDINARY AFRICANS, GRASSROOTS AFRICANS, SOME OF WHOM WERE
- [00:28:16.567]UNEDUCATED IN TERMS OF OUR IDEAS OF EDUCATION, SHOULD NOT REJECT
- [00:28:19.000]THE NOTION OF THE RENAISSANCE.
- [00:28:20.867]SHOULD WE NOT REJECT THE ELITISM OF THOSE SCHOLARS SO THAT THE
- [00:28:25.734]POOR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PILE COULD EMERGE
- [00:28:30.900]AND BEGIN TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES?
- [00:28:32.166]THIS IS A QUEST, ACCORDING TO THESE YOUNG SCHOLARS, FOR
- [00:28:38.700]AFRICAN IDENTITY TO REDISCOVER ITSELF AND
- [00:28:44.900]TO EMERGE AS A FORM OF INFLUENCE.
- [00:28:46.900]AND THIS, IMMEDIATELY TAKES US TO THE NEXT ISSUE, WHICH I WANT
- [00:28:50.300]TO RAISE, AND THAT IS RELIGION.
- [00:28:53.867]THIS EDUCATION, THIS ELITISM, THIS LANGUAGE, THIS CULTURE OF
- [00:29:01.300]THE ELITE WAS COMMUNICATED TO THE GREAT UNWASHED
- [00:29:06.467]THROUGH RELIGIOUS MISSIONARIES.
- [00:29:10.867]WHAT IS THE ROLE OF RELIGION IN AFRICA TODAY?
- [00:29:17.800]LET ME PUT ASIDE THE THEORY FOR A MOMENT AND JUST SHARE WITH YOU
- [00:29:22.967]THREE ANECDOTES ABOUT RELIGION IN AFRICA.
- [00:29:31.734]THE FIRST ANECDOTE CONCERNS A MOVEMENT THAT EMERGED IN THE MID
- [00:29:37.967]'70s THAT CALLED FOR THE REJECTION
- [00:29:39.834]OF FOREIGN MISSIONARIES.
- [00:29:50.533]I REMEMBER AS A YOUNG AND TENDER WHITE BOY FROM SOUTH AFRICA THAT
- [00:29:57.600]MY FIRST VENTURE INTO KENYA TO COMBAT RACISM MEETING AND THE
- [00:30:08.600]GREAT JOHN GOTTU, THE HEAD OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN THAT
- [00:30:18.166]AREA OF THE WORLD, AND HE SAID, IT'S THE MISSIONARIES THAT COME
- [00:30:24.233]AND IMPOSE UPON US COLONIAL VALUES.
- [00:30:29.066]WE NEED TO ASK THEM TO GO HOME.
- [00:30:31.734]WE NEED AT LEAST FIVE YEARS TO DISCOVER WHO WE
- [00:30:41.200]ARE AS AFRICAN CHRISTIAN.
- [00:30:42.266]THIS WAS ADOPTED BY THE ALL-AFRICAN COUNCIL, WHO
- [00:30:56.100]INSISTED, SEEK THEE FIRST THE POLITICAL KINGDOM,
- [00:31:00.500]AND ALL ELSE WILL BE ADDED UNTO YOU.
- [00:31:02.467]WELL, THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, NOBODY REALLY LISTENED TO MY
- [00:31:09.567]DEAR FRIEND, AND MISSIONARIES KEPT COMING.
- [00:31:15.667]IN FACT, THE WORLD WAS OUTRAGED BY THE CRY OF THE FALL AFRICA
- [00:31:20.800]CRY OF CHURCHES, AND THE PRESIDENT WAS REJECTED AS SOME
- [00:31:29.700]SORT OF MARXIST ATHEIST.
- [00:31:36.900]THERE WERE GREAT THEOLOGIANS OF THE WEST, INCLUDING BISHOP
- [00:31:40.367]STEVEN NEIL, WHO ACCUSED THE AFRICAN CHURCH
- [00:31:45.166]OF LOSING ALL SENSE OF DIRECTION.
- [00:31:49.967]THERE WERE OTHER SPOKES PERSONS FOR THE SO-CALLED EUROPEAN
- [00:31:56.667]CHURCH WHO CAME OUT FOR THE FRANKFORT DECLARATION, THE ROLE
- [00:32:09.700]OF THE CHURCH AND TO FOCUS EXCLUSIVELY ON SPIRITUAL
- [00:32:14.967]SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE.
- [00:32:18.400]THERE WAS JOHN SCOTT AND HIS COLLEAGUES WHO WROTE THE LUCERNE
- [00:32:26.333]STATEMENT, WHICH SAID THE SYNCRETISM THROUGH CHRISTIANITY
- [00:32:42.533]ALONE AND THROUGH A COLONIAL FORM OF CHRISTIANITY HAS TO BE
- [00:32:47.500]REJECTED, BECAUSE SALVATION COMES THROUGH CHRIST
- [00:32:51.967]AND CHRIST ALONE.
- [00:32:53.200]IN BRIEF, MISSION ACTIVITY CONTINUED WHILE THERE WERE SOME
- [00:32:59.867]IN AFRICA CALLING FOR THE REJECTION OF ALL FORMS OF
- [00:33:04.567]COLONIAL OR EUROPEAN CHRISTIANITY.
- [00:33:11.767]IT WAS REJECTED AND THERE WAS AN UNBELIEVABLE GROWTH OF
- [00:33:18.567]FOREIGN-FUNDED MISSIONS THROUGHOUT AFRICA.
- [00:33:21.633]I WISH I COULD TAKE YOU ON A CAR TRIP WITH ME AS YOU DRIVE THE
- [00:33:30.834]ROAD IN THE SOUTH UP NORTH THROUGH UGANDA'S SUGAR FARMS AND
- [00:33:39.033]ON THE WAY SOMEONE WILL SHOW YOU WHERE EDI AMIN HAD PEOPLE SHOT
- [00:33:49.133]AND BURIED, BUT YOU WILL HAVE POINTING TO HOSPITALS AND
- [00:34:02.800]REHABILITATION CENTERS, AND THE GOVERNMENT OF UGANDA, THE SAME
- [00:34:08.734]AS MANY OTHERS IS TO LOOK TO THOUGH THOSE MISSIONS TO PROVIDE
- [00:34:14.367]THE KIND OF SOCIAL SERVICES THEY CAN'T PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES.
- [00:34:25.500]I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A MISSION PARK AND HE PASSIONATELY
- [00:34:35.767]TOLD ME, YOU'VE GOT TO BELIEVE IN CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE.
- [00:34:44.934]AND AS I RECALLED HIS WORDS, THEY WERE SO SIMILAR TO THE
- [00:34:48.867]WORDS THAT THE FIRST MISSIONARIES MUST HAVE
- [00:34:52.767]SPOKEN ON MANY OCCASIONS.
- [00:34:54.500]I REMEMBER HIM PUTTING HIS HAND ON MY SHOULDER AND SAYING, BODY
- [00:34:58.700]AND SOUL, BODY AND SOUL.
- [00:35:00.734]YOU CAN'T TAKE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER.
- [00:35:02.433]THAT'S WHAT THE GOSPEL IS ALL ABOUT.
- [00:35:05.700]WELL, SOME OF THOSE MISSIONS -- NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT SOME ARE
- [00:35:11.500]FUNDED BY VERY CONSERVATIVE, BIG-MONEY CHURCHES WITH THE
- [00:35:16.533]ROOTS IN YOUR COUNTRY, THE UNITED STATES.
- [00:35:19.667]AND IN VARIOUS PARTS OF EUROPE.
- [00:35:22.433]SO AS THEY OFFER THE GOSPEL, THEY OFFER A CERTAIN VALUES AND
- [00:35:29.100]CERTAIN PERCEPTION AND CERTAIN IDEALS THAT ONE WOULD, IN SOME
- [00:35:33.533]INSTANCES, WANT TO QUESTION.
- [00:35:39.333]BUT I DON'T WANT TO DWELL THERE.
- [00:35:40.367]I THINK THAT WE NEED TO SAY IS THIS.
- [00:35:42.700]THAT JUDGING FROM THE RESPONSE OF THIS PARTICULAR PASTOR AND
- [00:35:46.967]THE GROWTH OF THEOLOGICAL CONSERVATIVES IN AFRICA, WHETHER
- [00:35:51.667]THEY ARE FUNDED WITH BIG MONEY OR NOT, I SUGGEST THAT THERE IS
- [00:35:57.900]A TENDENCY AMONGST MANY ACADEMICS TO SOCIALLY
- [00:36:05.900]RATIONALIZE OR EXPLAIN AWAY THE SPIRITUAL BELIEF OF AFRICANS.
- [00:36:14.400]TO UNDERESTIMATE.
- [00:36:17.266]NOW, THE GREAT SOCIOLOGISTS AND OTHERS HAVE IDENTIFIED THE
- [00:36:24.166]CONNECTION BETWEEN BELIEF AND PROSPERITY.
- [00:36:27.600]MANY OF THOSE MISSION CHURCHES IN AFRICA, WHETHER YOU AGREE
- [00:36:30.767]WITH THEM OR NOT, ARE CHURCHES THAT ARE FOCUSING ON SPIRITUAL
- [00:36:38.333]TRANSFORMATION AS A WAY TOWARDS HEALTH AND PROSPERITY
- [00:36:44.133]AND RICHES AND THE GOOD LIFE.
- [00:36:49.667]WORK IS STILL WAITING TO BE DONE ON THE SPIRITUAL DIMENSION OF
- [00:36:58.266]AFRICANS AND HOW THEY RELATE TO THE SECULAR DIMENSIONS OF LIFE.
- [00:37:04.734]SPIRITUAL HEALING, THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL, GENDER
- [00:37:09.934]POLITICS, SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS -- ALL INCLUDE RELIGIOUS
- [00:37:15.633]DIMENSIONS, AND IF THESE ARE NOT DEALT WITH, AND THESE ARE NOT
- [00:37:22.000]DEBATED WITHIN THE AFRICAN CONTINENT, THEN I WANT TO
- [00:37:25.433]SUGGEST THAT MANY OF THESE ISSUES WILL NOT BE RESOLVED TO
- [00:37:30.233]THE SATISFACTION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE.
- [00:37:35.200]AND SO I'VE GIVEN YOU TWO MODELS OF CHRISTIANITY IN AFRICA.
- [00:37:39.967]ON THE ONE HAND, THE CALL FOR A MORATORIUM ON ALL
- [00:37:45.567]MISSIONARIES -- PLEASE GO HOME FOR FIVE YEARS.
- [00:37:47.600]GIVE US A CHANCE TO FIND OURSELVES.
- [00:37:50.100]THIS WAS AS RECENTLY AS THE MID '70s, 1970s.
- [00:37:55.300]AND ON THE OTHER HAND, DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED IS THIS
- [00:38:04.934]GROWTH OF EVANGELICAL CHURCHES THROUGHOUT THE AFRICAN CONTINENT
- [00:38:13.300]THAT SEEMS TO LINK PHYSICAL HEALING TO SPIRIT
- [00:38:18.200]WELL-BEING AND PROSPERITY.
- [00:38:19.100]I DON'T WANT TO SAY WHICH ONE IS RIGHT.
- [00:38:22.000]THE DEBATE IS STILL ON.
- [00:38:24.734]I WANT TO REFER TO A THIRD MODEL, AND THAT IS THE SECULAR
- [00:38:28.367]AND RELIGIOUS RENEWAL THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IN SOUTH AFRICA.
- [00:38:33.367]THE THIRD ANECDOTE THAT I SHARE WITH YOU INVOLVED A SOUTH
- [00:38:39.133]AFRICAN QUEST, AN ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND THIS BIG
- [00:38:46.500]WORD CALLED RECONCILIATION.
- [00:38:47.767]IT IS THAT WORD WHICH IS ROOTED IN, WHAT PROFESSORS HAVE
- [00:38:54.066]REFERRED TO AS WANT TO.
- [00:38:58.800]THAT AFRICAN BELIEF THAT I AM THROUGH YOU, AND YOU ARE THROUGH
- [00:39:02.233]ME, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS ENTITY BETWEEN YOU AND ME, I AM
- [00:39:07.100]A LESSER PERSON AND YOU ARE A LESSER PERSON.
- [00:39:11.166]THIS WAS AN INCLUSIVE VISION, AND I REMEMBER SO CLEARLY AS
- [00:39:18.767]SOUTH AFRICA MOVED FROM ITS VERY CLOSED AND RIGID, NEO CALVINIST
- [00:39:27.500]TYPE FROM APARTHEID TO A MORE OPEN AND SECULAR APPROACH, THERE
- [00:39:38.033]WAS GREAT ANXIETY, AND LET ME SAY THIS TO YOU, BEFORE A
- [00:39:49.133]CONSTITUTION WAS ADOPTED THAT DOES NOT REFER TO THE WORD "GOD"
- [00:39:53.433]OTHER THAN IN ONE SHORT PHRASE THAT SAYS,
- [00:40:01.633]"AND MAY GOD PROTECT OUR PEOPLE."
- [00:40:03.300]THIS WAS A MOMENT WHEN THE RELIGIOUS GROUPS
- [00:40:10.400]OF SOUTH AFRICA CAME TOGETHER.
- [00:40:12.500]CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM AND BAHA'I AND OTHERS CAME TOGETHER AND
- [00:40:20.500]SAID, WE HAVE GOT TO CREATE A CONSTITUTION
- [00:40:26.200]THAT ALLOWS SPACE FOR ALL OF US.
- [00:40:27.333]SO WE'RE NOT TELLING THE MISSIONARIES TO GO HOME.
- [00:40:30.867]NEITHER ARE WE ALLOWING THEM TO DOMINATE THE SOCIAL SERVICES.
- [00:40:36.834]WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT ALL RELIGIONS AND ALL CULTURES ARE
- [00:40:41.467]EQUAL UNDER A SINGLE CONSTITUTION.
- [00:40:45.266]SO ENERGIZED, THAT'S A WORD I'VE LEARNED SINCE I'M BACK IN
- [00:40:50.500]AMERICA THIS LAST MONTH.
- [00:40:54.266]IT IS ALWAYS SOME POLITICAL PARTY ENERGIZING THE BASE.
- [00:41:00.266]WELL, SOUTH AFRICA WAS ENERGIZED AROUND THIS CONSTITUTION HAVING
- [00:41:07.500]ALL FAITHS, NO FAVORED, SO ENERGIZED WHEN THERE WERE MANY,
- [00:41:13.433]MANY CONCERNS WHEN THE TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION WAS ESTABLISHED
- [00:41:17.967]AND ARCHBISHOP TUTU WAS CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION.
- [00:41:23.800]THERE WAS PARTICULAR CONCERN THAT ARCHBISHOP TUTU USUALLY
- [00:41:27.967]WORE HIS CLERICAL GARB, AND IN THE BEGINNING HE WOULD OPEN EACH
- [00:41:33.400]SESSION WITH A PRAYER.
- [00:41:35.533]WELL, THERE WERE THOSE OF US IN THE COMMISSION WHO SPOKE WITH
- [00:41:39.867]ARCHBISHOP, AND HE AGREED FROM TIME TO TIME HE WOULD WEAR
- [00:41:43.767]ORDINARY SECULAR DRESS AND ALSO SAID INSTEAD OF OPENING WITH A
- [00:41:50.100]PRAYER, THERE WOULD BE A MOMENT OF SILENCE SO EVERYONE COULD
- [00:41:54.300]COMMUNICATE WITH HIS OR HER UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIVINE
- [00:41:58.700]WITHOUT HIM IMPOSING WORDS FROM WITHIN THE CHRISTIAN TRADITION.
- [00:42:02.567]IT WAS AN INTERESTING DEBATE.
- [00:42:07.000]AND I REMEMBER AT THE TIME SAYING TO THE MEDIA WHO SPOKE TO
- [00:42:10.333]ME ABOUT THIS ALL, I SAID, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT ARCHBISHOP
- [00:42:15.834]TUTU AS THE CHAIRPERSON OF THIS COMMISSION,
- [00:42:20.300]YOU KNOW WHO YOU'RE GOING TO GET?
- [00:42:22.266]YOU'RE GOING TO GET ARCHBISHOP TUTU.
- [00:42:25.567]THAT'S WHO HE IS.
- [00:42:26.367]THAT'S HIS IDENTITY.
- [00:42:33.600]YOU'RE NOT GOING TO EXTRACT HIM FROM THAT POSITION IN WHICH HE
- [00:42:39.133]STANDS, BUT IT WAS IN ASSOCIATION WITH A NEWLY
- [00:42:44.667]DEMOCRATIC ELECTED GOVERNMENT THAT GAVE RISE TO THIS
- [00:42:50.533]INTERVENTION, A BRAVE INTERVENTION, CALLED THE TRUTH
- [00:42:52.767]AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION.
- [00:42:57.467]YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME SOUTH AFRICA FACED THREE OPTIONS.
- [00:43:01.934]APARTHEID WAS OVER.
- [00:43:05.800]BUT PEOPLE REMEMBERED THE ATROCITIES OF THE PAST, AND THE
- [00:43:10.266]QUESTION WAS, WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THOSE
- [00:43:14.233]RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE ATROCITIES?
- [00:43:17.400]THERE WERE THREE OPTIONS.
- [00:43:18.600]ONE WAS TO HAVE A BLANKET OR GENERAL AMNESTY AND SAY, WELL,
- [00:43:29.567]THE PAST IS PAST, AND GOD BLESS YOU.
- [00:43:30.600]YOU CAN ALL GO ON YOUR WAY.
- [00:43:31.300]THERE WILL BE NO PROSECUTION.
- [00:43:32.834]THIS OPTION WAS REJECTED, BECAUSE THE POOREST OF THE POOR
- [00:43:37.667]AND THOSE WHO WERE VIOLATED MOST FOUND IT VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO
- [00:43:42.066]SIMPLY CLOSE THE DOOR ON THE PAST.
- [00:43:47.367]SOMEONE SAID AT THE TIME, THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED LEAST ARE
- [00:43:53.900]SOMEHOW BLESSED WITH A GOOD MEMORY.
- [00:43:56.433]BUT THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED MOST ARE CURSED WITH THE MEMORY.
- [00:44:05.333]AND THEY CANNOT PUT IT ASIDE.
- [00:44:07.367]SO THAT AMNESTY POSSIBILITY WAS REJECTED.
- [00:44:12.300]THE OTHER OPTION WAS TO HAVE TRIALS OR PROSECUTIONS AND THE
- [00:44:17.567]WORD NUREMBERG AND TOKYO TRIALS WAS BANDIED ABOUT.
- [00:44:23.934]THE PROBLEM WAS IN SOUTH AFRICA WHERE WE HAD A NEGOTIATED
- [00:44:29.100]SETTLEMENT, THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT THE MILITARY AND
- [00:44:31.367]SECURITY FORCES OF APARTHEID WOULD LAY DOWN THEIR GUNS IF
- [00:44:36.867]THEY KNEW TOMORROW OR IN SIX MONTHS' TIME THEY WOULD HAVE
- [00:44:41.900]THEIR DAY IN COURT AND PROBABLY SPEND THE REST OF
- [00:44:47.100]THEIR TIME IN PRISON.
- [00:44:48.166]AND SO AMNESTY WAS OUT IN THAT BLANKET FORM.
- [00:44:51.700]TRIALS AND PROSECUTIONS WAS OUT AS NOT A POLITICAL POSSIBILITY.
- [00:44:57.433]AND THIS GAVE BIRTH TO THE NOTION OF THE TRUTH AND
- [00:45:03.367]RECONCILIATION COMMISSION.
- [00:45:04.900]NECESSITY, WE ARE TOLD, IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION.
- [00:45:10.867]AND SO SOUTH AFRICANS SET ON AND NEWLY DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED
- [00:45:18.100]GOVERNMENT, SAID THERE WILL BE A TRUTH COMMISSION.
- [00:45:21.900]THIS WILL INVOLVE A 2, 2 1/2, 3-YEAR NATIONAL CONVERSATION
- [00:45:28.800]WHERE WE WILL INVITE THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED MOST TO COME
- [00:45:33.834]FORWARD AND TELL THEIR STORIES, AND WE WILL OFFER THOSE WHO WERE
- [00:45:39.333]THE PERPETRATORS THE OPTION OF CONDITIONAL AMNESTY, THAT IF
- [00:45:44.967]THEY COME AND TELL THEIR STORIES, ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR
- [00:45:52.200]CRIMES AND THE CROSS EXAMINATION BEFORE A PANEL OF JUDGES AND ARE
- [00:45:55.800]JUDGED TO BE TELLING THE TRUTH, THEY WILL RECEIVE AMNESTY, BUT
- [00:46:01.834]IT WAS CONDITIONAL UPON THEM ACKNOWLEDGING THEIR FAILURES --
- [00:46:08.734]CONFESSING THEIR SINS, IF YOU'D LIKE.
- [00:46:13.000]WELL, THERE WERE THOSE WHO WERE SKEPTICAL ABOUT THIS.
- [00:46:15.133]LET ME BRIEF REPORT TO YOU THAT 22,000 VICTIMS VOLUNTEERED TO
- [00:46:20.734]COME FORWARD AND TELL THEIR STORIES.
- [00:46:23.467]IF WE ALLOWED EACH ONE OF THEM TO DO SO IN PUBLIC, I SUPPOSE
- [00:46:27.333]THAT COMMISSION WOULD STILL BE SITTING.
- [00:46:30.367]SO WE TOOK A SAMPLE OF APPROXIMATELY 10%.
- [00:46:37.734]2,000 PEOPLE OF THOSE 22 WHO HAD SUBMITTED AN AFFIDAVIT, WE ASKED
- [00:46:43.767]THEM TO COME AND TELL THEIR STORIES.
- [00:46:47.266]AND FOR 2 1/2 YEARS, SOUTH AFRICANS LISTENED TO THE STORIES
- [00:46:54.667]OF THOSE WHO SUFFERED MOST.
- [00:46:56.100]THE ATTEMPT WAS TO CREATE A CATHARTIC MOMENT WHERE PEOPLE
- [00:47:01.166]COULD REMEMBER AND DEAL WITH THEIR PAST, AND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
- [00:47:04.266]IN SOME -- IT DIDN'T SUCCEED IN 100%.
- [00:47:11.233]BUT THERE WERE MANY WHO WERE ABLE TO PUT THE PAST
- [00:47:14.166]BEHIND THEM AND MOVE ON.
- [00:47:20.500]I REMEMBER ON THE DAY THAT WE HANDED THE REPORT IN, END OF
- [00:47:26.700]1998 WHO MR. MANDELA, WHO WAS THE PRESENT AT THE TIME, A YOUNG
- [00:47:33.266]JOURNALIST CAME AND STUCK A MICROPHONE UNDER MY NOSE AND
- [00:47:38.500]SAID, WELL, PROFESSOR, HAVE YOU GUYS RECONCILED THE NATION?
- [00:47:42.333]AND I KNEW THIS FELLOW QUITE WELL.
- [00:47:46.333]IT WAS A GOOD FELLOW.
- [00:47:53.633]I SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE STUPIDEST QUESTION
- [00:47:57.600]I'VE HEARD IN A FEW YEARS.
- [00:47:58.867]YOU DON'T HEAL A NATION IN THREE YEARS, BUT WE HAVE CREATED A
- [00:48:02.133]SPACE WITHIN WHICH WE CAN BEGIN TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.
- [00:48:05.700]WHAT ABOUT THE PERPETRATORS?
- [00:48:07.667]YOU KNOW, APPROXIMATELY 7,000 PEOPLE APPLIED
- [00:48:13.967]FOR AMNESTY AS PERPETRATORS.
- [00:48:15.633]IN THE END, LESS THAN 1200, TO BE PRECISE,
- [00:48:27.367]1,167 WERE GRANTED AMNESTY.
- [00:48:28.166]THE OTHERS WERE DENIED AMNESTY.
- [00:48:30.333]SO IT WASN'T A BLANKET AMNESTY, IF YOU ROLLED UP,
- [00:48:34.767]YOU COULD GO HOME.
- [00:48:35.300]THEY HAD TO COME.
- [00:48:35.934]THEY HAD TO ACKNOWLEDGE.
- [00:48:36.934]THEY HAD TO TELL THEIR STORIES.
- [00:48:38.266]THEY COULD BE CROSS-EXAMINED.
- [00:48:41.600]THEY COULD BE QUESTIONED BY THEIR VICTIMS.
- [00:48:45.033]WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE COMMISSION?
- [00:48:47.066]IT WAS TO SAY THAT WE'VE COME TOGETHER AS PEOPLE, DIFFERENT
- [00:48:51.967]PEOPLE, BLACK AND WHITE, PERPETRATORS AND VICTIMS, JEWS
- [00:48:59.200]AND CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS AND BAHA'I, LET'S COME TOGETHER AND
- [00:49:08.166]TREAT A NEW AND BETTER SOUTH AFRICA.
- [00:49:11.333]LET ME LEAVE THAT THERE AND, NEEDLESS TO SAY, I COULD SPEAK
- [00:49:15.500]ABOUT THE TRUTH COMMISSION ALL NIGHT.
- [00:49:17.767]IT WASN'T PERFECT.
- [00:49:18.767]THERE WERE MANY, MANY FAULTS.
- [00:49:21.000]BUT IT GOT SOUTH AFRICA OVER A CRUCIAL MOMENT IN ITS HISTORY
- [00:49:27.300]WHERE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT CULTURES, DIFFERENT RELIGIONS,
- [00:49:32.000]DIFFERENT COLORS, DIFFERENT IDEOLOGICAL BELIEFS, CAME
- [00:49:38.633]TOGETHER AND SAID, LET'S BUILD A NATION.
- [00:49:42.734]THERE WAS A RELIGIOUS ROOT THERE, A MODEL IDENTITY THERE,
- [00:49:48.800]AN AFRICAN FLAVOR THERE WHICH WAS DIFFERENT.
- [00:49:53.934]VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT NOTION OF REJECT ALL MISSIONARIES, TO
- [00:50:01.000]YES, LET'S BRING IN THE CONSERVATIVE CHURCHES AND LET
- [00:50:06.233]THEM SORT US OUT.
- [00:50:07.300]IT WAS, NO, WE WILL COME TOGETHER AS A COUNTRY OF
- [00:50:10.800]DIFFERENT FAITHS AND TAKE IT FROM THERE.
- [00:50:12.367]SO I THINK AFRICAN IDENTITY DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH
- [00:50:16.467]CULTURE AND LANGUAGE.
- [00:50:17.667]IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.
- [00:50:20.834]THE LAST COMMENT I WANT TO MAKE ON THIS IDENTITY THING IS THE
- [00:50:23.233]ISSUE OF NATION-BUILDING.
- [00:50:28.934]AND I NEED TO MOVE ON BEFORE I'M TOLD THAT MY TIME IS UP.
- [00:50:38.700]YOU KNOW, THE BASIC CHARACTERISTIC OF COLONIALISM
- [00:50:41.967]WAS THIS -- THAT THE COLONIAL SETTLERS WERE
- [00:50:48.133]GOVERNED ACCORDING TO CIVIL LAW.
- [00:50:51.400]THE AFRICAN GROUPS WERE GOVERNED ACCORDING TO CUSTOMARY LAWS, AND
- [00:51:02.133]SETTLERS SEEMED TO BE ONE HOMOGENOUS GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH
- [00:51:06.433]ALL THE RIGHTS, ET CETERA, THAT WAS EMBEDDED
- [00:51:12.100]INTO INTERNATIONAL LAW.
- [00:51:14.333]AFRICANS WERE GOVERNED ACCORDING TO CUSTOMARY LAW, AND EACH
- [00:51:21.000]SEPARATE AFRICAN CLAN OR TRIBE HAD A SEPARATE CUSTOM OR LAW.
- [00:51:25.266]AND AS COLONIALISM WENT ON, THE COLONIALISTS MADE SURE THAT EACH
- [00:51:38.266]OF THE LEADERS OR THE GROUPS WITH SOMEONE WITH WHOM THEY
- [00:51:42.200]COULD WORK, WITH WHOM THEY COULD DO BUSINESS, WHO WOULD BE
- [00:51:46.166]SUPPORTIVE OF THEM IN RETURN FOR THEM BEING
- [00:51:52.066]SUPPORTIVE OF THE CHIEFS.
- [00:51:54.266]NOW, THE NAME MAHMOUD MANDANI MAY MEAN SOMETHING TO YOU.
- [00:52:00.500]HE'S AN AFRICAN SCHOLAR, A U UGANDAN, AND HE HAS DISCOVERED
- [00:52:11.100]THAT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM IN SOUTH AFRICA TODAY CAN BE TRACED
- [00:52:18.834]BACK TO CUSTOMARY LAW, SO WHO DID THEY LOOK TO FOR SUPPORT?
- [00:52:25.767]THOSE WHO WERE AROUND THEM, THE PEOPLE OF THEIR TRIBE, THE
- [00:52:29.400]PEOPLE OF THEIR CULTURE, THE PEOPLE OF THEIR CLAN.
- [00:52:33.266]AND THIS, HE SAYS, HAS BEEN EMBEDDED
- [00:52:42.734]IN THE POST-COLONIAL PERIOD.
- [00:52:44.033]SO WHEN WE LOOK AT SOME OF THE WORST ATROCITIES IN AFRICA, WHAT
- [00:52:56.633]DO WE SEE IN RWANDA.
- [00:53:00.100]OR TAKE THE CONFLICT IN NIGERIA OR THE MUSLIM NORTH AND THE
- [00:53:10.033]SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN AND INDIGENOUS BELIEVERS IN SUDAN,
- [00:53:16.066]OR COME HOME AND LOOK AT THE CONFLICT IN ZIMBABWE.
- [00:53:25.834]IN ALL CASES, THESE ARE GROUPS FROM WITHIN WHO LOOK TO THEIR
- [00:53:32.133]OWN AND FIGHT TO THE OTHER WITHIN THEIR
- [00:53:36.233]OWN NATIONAL BORDERS.
- [00:53:37.500]I THINK SOUTH AFRICA, FOR ALL ITS LIMITATIONS, AND GOD KNOWS
- [00:53:43.934]FOR ALL ITS FAILURES, AND WE'VE SEEN IT WITH THE DREADFUL
- [00:53:52.967]INCIDENTS, SOUTH AFRICA HAS CREATED A CONSTITUTION THAT IS
- [00:53:59.066]ABOVE ALL RELIGIONS, ALL CULTURE GROUPS, ALL TRIBAL GROUPS, ALL
- [00:54:06.433]CLAN GROUPS, AND SAY, WE'RE ALL EQUALS.
- [00:54:14.066]NOW, WE HAVEN'T QUITE GOT THERE, HAVE WE?
- [00:54:17.967]WE'RE STILL TRAPPED IN THE MEMORIES OF THE PAST.
- [00:54:24.867]WE STRUGGLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A SOUTH AFRICAN
- [00:54:30.233]WITH ROOTS IN THE TRADITION OR THE ZULU TRADITION OR THE
- [00:54:35.700]ENGLISH TRADITION OR OTHER TRADITIONS,
- [00:54:41.333]WE'RE STILL STRUGGLING.
- [00:54:42.567]BUT THE CONSTITUTION, THAT ASPIRATION, THAT GOLD, IS THERE.
- [00:54:47.934]WHICH I WANT TO SUGGEST MEANS THAT SOUTH AFRICA IS QUITE
- [00:54:56.166]DIFFERENT, AT LEAST AT THE THEORETICAL CONSTITUTIONAL
- [00:55:00.967]LEVEL, FROM ANY OF THE OTHER AFRICAN CONTINENTS.
- [00:55:07.200]WE STRUGGLE TO GET A FACE, BUT YOU DO TOO, DON'T YOU?
- [00:55:11.133]I COME FROM THE OUTSIDE, AND I LOOK WITH NEW EYES, AND I LISTEN
- [00:55:16.066]TO THESE FEARS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS MAY BE THE LAST ELECTION
- [00:55:20.700]WHERE CAUCASIAN-AMERICANS HAVE THIS SORT OF DOMINANCE BECAUSE
- [00:55:26.467]THE HISPANIC GROUP IS BEGINNING TO GROW, AND THERE ARE
- [00:55:30.934]AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND PEOPLE FROM SOUTHEAST
- [00:55:34.233]ASIA AND ALL THE REST.
- [00:55:35.066]HOW DO YOU LEARN TO LIVE TOGETHER?
- [00:55:38.333]LET ME GO BACK TO ONE SENTENCE FROM MUMDANI WHERE HE SAID
- [00:55:46.300]THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW PARADIGM OF WHAT WE MEAN BY
- [00:55:51.500]"NATION," WHICH EMBRACES ALL THE PIECES THAT
- [00:55:56.100]CAUSE PEOPLE TO BE SEPARATE.
- [00:55:56.967]HE SAID, YOU CAN HAVE A REVOLUTION.
- [00:55:59.667]YOU CAN HAVE INDEPENDENCE.
- [00:56:03.500]MAYBE EVEN SAY YOU CAN EVEN HAVE A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
- [00:56:09.233]AND YOU CAN TURN THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN BUT
- [00:56:13.567]STILL FAIL TO CHANGE IT.
- [00:56:16.700]YOU CAN TURN THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN BUT STILL
- [00:56:19.834]FAIL TO CHANGE IT.
- [00:56:23.033]SO I'M BACK TO THE QUESTION WITH WHICH I BEGAN.
- [00:56:30.867]HOW DO AFRICANS HEAL THEMSELVES?
- [00:56:35.633]CAN AFRICA HEAL ITSELF?
- [00:56:37.367]IF I LOOK AT THE COLONIAL PERIOD AND IF I LOOK AT GLOBAL POLITICS
- [00:56:42.166]TODAY, I SAY TO YOU, IF AFRICA CAN'T HEAL ITSELF, WELL, THEN
- [00:56:46.967]AFRICA IS NOT GOING TO BE HEALED, BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE IS
- [00:56:50.100]GOING TO DO IT FOR US.
- [00:56:51.367]WE'VE GOT TO FIND A WAY TO MOVE FORWARD.
- [00:56:55.934]AND TO THIS END, I WANT TO CLOSE THIS PRESENTATION
- [00:56:58.433]WITH THREE QUESTIONS.
- [00:57:01.433]WHICH I'LL ASK YOU TO PONDER.
- [00:57:06.567]THAT'S ALL THAT PROFESSORS CAN DO IS RAISE QUESTIONS.
- [00:57:11.834]STUDENTS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE GOT TO ANSWER IT.
- [00:57:15.934]THE FIRST ONE CONCERNS GLOBAL ECONOMICS.
- [00:57:19.567]AND I WANT TO ASK, IS THERE A REALISTIC -- REALISTIC OPTION
- [00:57:27.033]FOR NARROWING THE ECONOMIC GAP BETWEEN FIRST WORLD
- [00:57:41.467]AND PER PERIPHERAL ECONOMIES
- [00:57:43.967]AROUND THE WORLD?
- [00:57:45.300]THE ECONOMY IN AFRICA IS IN BAD SHAPE, BUT CAN THIS BE REDRESSED
- [00:57:50.500]WITHOUT IN SOME WAY TACKLING GLOBAL ECONOMICS HEAD ON?
- [00:57:59.633]WHAT YOU SEE IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES BETWEEN THE RICH AND
- [00:58:03.333]THE POOR IS JUST WHAT YOU SEE IN GLOBAL POLITICS BETWEEN THIRD
- [00:58:08.767]WORLD COUNTRIES.
- [00:58:09.667]MY NEXT QUESTION IS THE TRANSFORMATION
- [00:58:13.100]OF DISSIDENT STATES.
- [00:58:19.967]A FAIRLY OPTIMISTIC VISION, I WOULD SUGGEST, BUT A VISION THAT
- [00:58:25.133]WE CAN LIVE TOGETHER THROUGH THE AFRICAN UNION ON THE CONTINENT,
- [00:58:30.667]THROUGH A CONSTITUTION SUCH AS WE HAVE IN SOUTH AFRICA, BUT
- [00:58:34.800]WHAT DO YOU DO WITH DISSIDENT STATES?
- [00:58:37.200]WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THOSE STATES WHO WON'T COME TO THE PARTY AND
- [00:58:42.867]WHO WON'T STOP EXPLOITING THEIR OWN PEOPLE AND DISREGARDING
- [00:58:49.967]INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS?
- [00:58:50.800]WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THEM?
- [00:58:55.767]THESE COUNTRIES CLAIM SOVEREIGN INDEPENDENCE.
- [00:58:59.467]WHEN DOES A NATION HAVE A RIGHT TO INTERVENE?
- [00:59:04.533]WHEN DOES A NATION HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO
- [00:59:08.900]INTERVENE IN ANOTHER NATION?
- [00:59:10.166]WHEN DOES THE WORLD HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE
- [00:59:16.200]OF ZIMBABWE OR SUDAN OR SYRIA?
- [00:59:21.633]OR ELSEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE EAST?
- [00:59:25.333]WHEN DOES THAT MOMENT COME?
- [00:59:27.066]WE HAVE CERTAIN RULES AND REGULATIONS THROUGH THE
- [00:59:30.633]INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND THROUGH THE UNITED NATIONS, BUT
- [00:59:37.033]AT A POLITICAL LEVEL, WHEN DO YOU INTERVENE?
- [00:59:39.834]WHEN ARE WARS OF INTERVENTION EVER VALID?
- [00:59:45.800]VIETNAM?
- [00:59:46.133]IRAQ?
- [00:59:48.834]AFGHANISTAN?
- [00:59:51.367]LIBYA?
- [00:59:54.533]AND NOW, SYRIA?
- [00:59:59.600]ZIMBABWE?
- [01:00:00.200]AND MANY OTHER PLACES.
- [01:00:03.266]THE THIRD AND THE FINAL QUESTION I ASK, IS IT REALISTIC TO LOOK
- [01:00:17.266]AT THE SOUTH AFRICAN WAY OF DEALING WITH A VERY CONFLICTUAL
- [01:00:25.800]PAST THAT DIDN'T DEMAND THE PRESIDENT AND THOSE BEFORE HIM
- [01:00:32.734]AND ALSO THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY DESERVED THEIR DAY IN
- [01:00:39.300]PRISON TO BE EXEMPTED OR LOOK AT ZIMBABWE.
- [01:00:46.133]WHAT A DREADFUL SITUATION.
- [01:00:47.900]BUT CAN I TELL YOU SOMETHING?
- [01:00:50.333]THE GUY WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS THAT ZIMBABWE LANDED
- [01:00:57.066]ITSELF IN AND THAT HE INHERITED, WAS NEVER PROSECUTED.
- [01:01:05.667]IN FACT, HE COULD WALK TO THE STREETS AND GO INTO THE
- [01:01:09.867]SUPERMARKET AND DO HIS SHOPPING.
- [01:01:11.400]WHAT IS THIS AFRICAN THING?
- [01:01:15.800]DOES IT MAKE SENSE?
- [01:01:18.166]IS IT AN ALTERNATIVE TO WARS OF INTERVENTION?
- [01:01:23.266]WHAT IS IT?
- [01:01:26.834]AND HERE'S MY FINAL QUESTION.
- [01:01:33.000]IS THERE AN AFRICAN NOTION AND A SOUTH AFRICAN NOTION OF DEALING
- [01:01:41.767]WITH THE PAST THROUGH RESTORATIVE JUSTICE AS OPPOSED
- [01:01:51.100]TO RETRIBUTION OR PUNITIVE JUSTICE, WHICH I THINK IS THE
- [01:01:56.266]HALLMARK OF JUSTICE AS YOU KNOW IT IN YOUR COUNTRY, AS EUROPEAN
- [01:02:02.533]COUNTRIES KNOW IT, AS THE FIRST WORLD KNOWS IT.
- [01:02:05.667]THERE'S AN OPTION, TO INTERVENE?
- [01:02:09.367]NO.
- [01:02:10.467]DOES THIS MEAN TO ISOLATE YOURSELF, TO PUT UP THE
- [01:02:14.300]BARRIERS, AND SAY, LET THE WORLD GO TO WHERE THE WORLD WILL GO,
- [01:02:18.100]WE WILL PROTECT OUR OWN?
- [01:02:19.800]NO.
- [01:02:21.100]THE QUESTION IS, WHAT DOES THE OBLIGATION TO PROTECT MEAN?
- [01:02:27.900]IS IT RESTORATIVE?
- [01:02:28.400]DOES IT HEAL?
- [01:02:33.233]AND IN THAT CONTEXT, DO I END WHERE I BEGAN?
- [01:02:37.967]CAN AFRICA HEAL ITSELF?
- [01:02:40.233]WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF TRYING TO DO SO.
- [01:02:44.633]WE HAVE NOT COME UP WITH THE PERFECT ANSWER.
- [01:02:47.667]BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?
- [01:02:48.500]NEITHER HAS THE REST OF THE WORLD.
- [01:02:50.934]THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION.
- [01:02:51.767][APPLAUSE]
- [01:03:10.600]>> THANK YOU.
- [01:03:11.934]IF ANY OF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE GET CARDS FROM THE
- [01:03:16.800]USHERS, WRITE THE QUESTIONS AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN, BRING THEM
- [01:03:19.900]BACK TO THE USHERS, AND THEY'LL BE BROUGHT OVER HERE AND WE'LL
- [01:03:23.700]BRING THEM TO THE FRONT IN ORDER TO ANSWER AS MANY AS POSSIBLE.
- [01:03:30.200]WHILE WE ARE WAITING FOR QUESTIONS TO COME FROM THE
- [01:03:34.934]AUDIENCE, I WANT TO BEGIN WITH A QUESTION THAT COMES FROM ONE OF
- [01:03:40.500]THE CONSTANT SCHOLARS, ONE OF THE STUDENTS WITH WHOM PROFESSOR
- [01:03:47.200]VILLA-VICENCIO MET THIS AFTERNOON.
- [01:03:49.867]DO YOU BELIEVE THAT HUMANS HAVE AN INNATE SENSE OF XENOPHOBIA?
- [01:04:05.000]DO THEY NATURALLY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST OTHERS OR IS IT A
- [01:04:09.066]LEARNED BEHAVIOR?
- [01:04:10.533]>> STUDENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION,
- [01:04:13.633]NOT ASK THE QUESTION.
- [01:04:14.467]I THINK THAT'S MY FIRST RESPONSE.
- [01:04:16.200]BUT YOU KNOW, XENOPHOBIA IS A TERRIBLE THING.
- [01:04:22.300]IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S TEARING THE SOCIAL TISSUE OF SOUTH
- [01:04:30.800]AFRICA APART AS WE SIT HERE NOW, BECAUSE YOU SEE, SOUTH AFRICA IS
- [01:04:37.700]REGARDED IN MANY WAYS AS THE PROMISED LAND FOR THOSE PEOPLE
- [01:04:41.166]LIVING IN A STRIFE-TORN CONGO, SOMALIA, ETHIOPIA.
- [01:04:53.000]THOSE PEOPLE COME AND AFRICANS IN SOUTH AFRICA, LET ME SAY FOR
- [01:05:00.367]THE SAKE OF AFRICANS, BLACK AFRICANS, THEY MUST GO HOME.
- [01:05:09.800]BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WON'T GO HOME, SOME OF THEM ARE KILLED.
- [01:05:15.934]BUT ALL HAS TO DO WITH OUR PERCEPTION OF THE OTHERS.
- [01:05:20.533]WHO ARE THOSE COMING INTO SOUTH AFRICA TO DO?
- [01:05:23.133]AS I WAS SAYING TO THE STUDENTS, THERE ARE MANY
- [01:05:35.033]BLACK SOUTH AFRICANS
- [01:05:37.100]AFRICANS THAT SAY, FROM ALL OF THEM THAT COME, THEY COME TO
- [01:05:38.600]TAKE OUR JOBS, NUMBER TWO IS TO TAKE OUR HOUSES AND NUMBER THREE
- [01:05:44.367]IS TO STEAL OUR WOMEN, SO THERE'S THE AGENDA
- [01:05:50.266]IN THE NATION.
- [01:05:51.300]HOW DO YOU OVERCOME THAT?
- [01:05:53.767]HOW DO YOU OVERCOME WHAT IS PERHAPS THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE OF
- [01:05:57.667]THIS NEW CENTURY, AND THAT IS HOW TO LIVE WITH THE OTHER?
- [01:06:01.266]HOW TO LIVE WITH THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT?
- [01:06:03.967]AND THE DIFFERENCE MAY HAVE TO DO WITH COLOR.
- [01:06:05.767]IT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH RELIGION.
- [01:06:09.300]IT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH IDEOLOGY.
- [01:06:14.567]THEY MAY BE ARABS.
- [01:06:17.066]THEY MAY BE SOMALIANS.
- [01:06:19.333]VERY DIFFERENT.
- [01:06:20.767]THEREFORE, WE ARE CREATING THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLOIT THEM,
- [01:06:25.700]AND, IF NECESSARY, TO KILL THEM.
- [01:06:28.200]YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY, AND I'VE GOT MYSELF INTO
- [01:06:34.333]HOT WATER BEFORE TODAY FOR SAYING THIS, BUT THERE ARE THOSE
- [01:06:37.533]WHO SAY THAT THE HOLOCAUST, TRAGIC, TERRIBLE, UNDENIABLE AS
- [01:06:44.300]IT IS, IS NOT UNIQUE.
- [01:06:47.734]THE TYPE OF THING, OF DENIGRATING THE OTHER, REDUCING
- [01:06:54.400]THE OTHER, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO GET TO THE POINT OF KILLING THE
- [01:06:58.667]OTHER, IS DEEP, DEEP IN THE ROOTS OF COLONIALISM
- [01:07:04.166]AROUND THE WORLD.
- [01:07:04.800]WE NEED TO GOVERN THEM.
- [01:07:08.166]BECAUSE THEY CANNOT GOVERN THEMSELVES.
- [01:07:11.567]VERY, VERY NARROW LINE BETWEEN US HELPING THEM
- [01:07:17.133]AND US KILLING THEM.
- [01:07:17.934]IS THAT INHERENT TO HUMAN NATURE?
- [01:07:23.767]I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE INHERENT TO HUMAN NATURE, AND
- [01:07:27.333]THAT IS THE CAPACITY OF PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY AND MINE TO
- [01:07:32.934]ULTIMATELY LOOK BEYOND THOSE BARRIERS AND TO LIVE TOGETHER.
- [01:07:37.667][APPLAUSE] THIS IS NOT THE CASE WHERE WE
- [01:07:49.600]ALL THE SUDDEN SEE OURSELVES AS MORE ENLIGHTENED THAN OUR
- [01:07:55.900]FOREFATHERS WHO WERE NEVER ABLE TO DO THAT.
- [01:07:57.367]NOT AT ALL.
- [01:07:58.667]CERTAINLY IN SOUTH AFRICA, YOU TALK ABOUT MY HOME COUNTRY, WE
- [01:08:02.667]CAME TO THAT POINT WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO TRANSCEND THOSE BARRIERS
- [01:08:08.233]BECAUSE WE KNEW IT WAS WITHIN OUR OWN SELF-INTERESTS TO DO SO,
- [01:08:11.266]THAT UNLESS WE LEARNED TO LIVE TOGETHER,
- [01:08:15.433]WE WOULD KILL ONE ANOTHER.
- [01:08:16.233]THEY WOULD BE SCORCHED EARTH.
- [01:08:18.900]THERE WOULD BE NOTHING LEFT.
- [01:08:22.734]YES, XENOPHOBIA IS A POWERFUL FORCE, BUT I THINK IT IS A FORCE
- [01:08:27.934]OF HUMANITY THAT COUNTERS THAT.
- [01:08:30.467]>> A QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE.
- [01:08:33.500]IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THE WORLD WANTS TO USE AFRICA'S NATURAL
- [01:08:39.500]RESOURCES AND LET THE PEOPLE GO THE WAY OF POVERTY AS THE
- [01:08:44.133]AMERICAN INDIAN WENT.
- [01:08:44.700]WHAT IS YOUR COMMENT?
- [01:08:52.633]>> NOW WE'RE BEING PROVOCATIVE.
- [01:08:56.166]I JUST READ A REMARKABLE ARTICLE, AND I'M RACKING MY
- [01:09:02.734]BRAIN TO REMEMBER HIS NAME, NORSE,
- [01:09:12.934]"OBAMA'S SPICE ROOT IN AFRICA."
- [01:09:14.100]AND WHAT HE ARGUES, AND DEMONSTRATES, IS THAT EVEN --
- [01:09:20.233]SHALL I USE THAT WORD?
- [01:09:22.700]EVEN IN MR. OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION, AND HAS BEEN A
- [01:09:26.166]GROWTH AND A PROLIFERATION OF U.S. MILITARY PRESENCES
- [01:09:34.300]THROUGHOUT THE CONTINENT, AND THAT IS DOCUMENTED VERY WELL.
- [01:09:36.133]HIS POINT IS THIS -- THE QUESTION HE ASKS IS THIS.
- [01:09:42.600]WHAT IS AMERICA SEEKING TO DO?
- [01:09:44.367]AND HE SAYS, AMERICA IS SEEKING TO DO WHAT ALL NATIONS DO TO
- [01:09:49.467]PROTECT THEIR OWN SELF-INTERESTS.
- [01:09:51.667]AND HE ASKED THAT TANTALIZING QUESTION, IS WHETHER THE
- [01:09:58.900]EXPECTATIONS BEHIND THIS POLICY IS THAT ONE DAY AFRICA SHOULD
- [01:10:05.166]BECOME THE VEGETABLE GARDEN FOR THE UNITED STATES
- [01:10:09.400]AND FOR THE FIRST WORLD.
- [01:10:11.200]HE SPEAKS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CONGA RIVER, AMPLE SUPPLY OF
- [01:10:20.166]RIVER, FERTILE RIVER, FERTILE LAND ON EITHER SIDE OF THE
- [01:10:24.867]RIVER, AND CHEAP LABOR.
- [01:10:26.367]SO MAYBE WHAT THE FIRST WORLD NEEDS TO DO, SAYS HE, IS TO COME
- [01:10:31.600]INTO AFRICA AND TO EXPLOIT THOSE RESOURCES AND TAKE THEM OUT.
- [01:10:36.300]AND HE ENDS UP BY SAYING, BUT WHAT'S NEW ABOUT THIS?
- [01:10:41.300]THAT'S WHAT COLONIALISM HAS ALWAYS DONE.
- [01:10:44.467]MAYBE THINGS ARE NOT THAT DIFFERENT TODAY.
- [01:10:51.400]>> A DIFFERENT KIND OF QUESTION.
- [01:10:52.533]HOW DO WHITE AFRICANS PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS OF
- [01:10:59.200]FINDING AFRICAN IDENTITY?
- [01:11:01.066]>> THAT'S A TOUGH ONE.
- [01:11:01.867]I'M A WHITE AFRICAN.
- [01:11:06.500]I SUPPOSE IN THAT SENSE, I'M PART OF THAT MYSTERIOUS WHITE
- [01:11:11.700]TRIBE OF AFRICA.
- [01:11:15.233]AND THERE ARE MANY OF THE NATIONAL STRUGGLE IN SOUTH
- [01:11:20.867]AFRICA SAY, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING THERE?
- [01:11:24.100]WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK TO WHERE YOU COME FROM?
- [01:11:27.533]BECAUSE MY FOREFATHERS, WHO CAME FROM SPAIN, LANDED IN AFRICA
- [01:11:33.834]FIVE GENERATIONS GO.
- [01:11:36.900]I'VE GOT NOWHERE TO GO.
- [01:11:40.467]AND THERE ARE MANY AFRICANS WHO GO BACK EVEN FARTHER THAN THAT.
- [01:11:51.934]SO AM I AN AFRICAN?
- [01:11:54.233]IF I'M NOT AN AFRICAN, WHO AM I?
- [01:12:00.700]I KNOW IF YOU READ THE REMARKABLE AFRICAN NOVELIST, WHO
- [01:12:07.600]WRITES IN THE ENGLISH TONGUE, AND WHO IS AN AFRICAN AND WHITE
- [01:12:16.734]MAN BE AN AFRICAN, AND ON AND ON, AND HE SAID, CAN A WHITE
- [01:12:24.400]PERSON BE AN AFRICAN?
- [01:12:25.934]WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE AN AFRICAN?
- [01:12:29.166]HE SAID, MY ANSWER IS, IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL.
- [01:12:32.333]IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL.
- [01:12:34.133]PEOPLE HAVE COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND SOME HAPPEN TO
- [01:12:38.300]HAVE A SO-CALLED WHITE SKIN.
- [01:12:45.100]OTHERS HAVE DIFFERENT COLOR SKIN.
- [01:12:49.367]IDI AMIN SAID WE SHOULD GET RID OF THEM, AND HE GOT RID OF THEM
- [01:12:56.300]BY SHOOTING THEM.
- [01:12:57.400]BUT THIS YOUNG AND TENDER AFRICAN CONTINENT, WITH
- [01:13:05.867]COLONIALISM, LESS THAN 100 YEARS BEHIND THEM, LEARNING, HOW TO
- [01:13:10.400]GROW INTO ONE ANOTHER, AND HOW TO BE AN AFRICAN.
- [01:13:16.600]YOU KNOW, WHEN I BEGAN TO BECOME POLITICALLY AWARE AND CONSCIOUS
- [01:13:22.767]IN MY LATE TEENS, EARLY 20s, I WAS ONE OF THOSE PRIVILEGED
- [01:13:29.300]PEOPLE IN THE WORLD TO MEET SOME GREAT
- [01:13:43.800]BLACK AFRICANS AND ONE ASKED ME, WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM STEVE
- [01:13:51.233]BEAKER, THE INCARNATION OF ALL THAT WAS EVIL OF THE DAY, AS FAR
- [01:13:59.166]AS THEY WERE CONCERNED, AND I SAID,
- [01:14:02.533]STEVE TAUGHT ME I WAS WHITE.
- [01:14:03.700]HE TAUGHT ME MY WHITENESS.
- [01:14:06.233]IT WAS ONLY THEN THAT I COULD ASK MYSELF, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO
- [01:14:11.433]PARTICIPATE IN A MULTICULTURAL, IN A SOCIETY WHERE SOME ARE
- [01:14:19.967]BLACK AND SOME ARE WHITE AND SOME ARE ASIAN
- [01:14:26.133]AND SOME ARE OTHER THINGS.
- [01:14:26.967]IT'S A TOUGH ONE FOR WHITES.
- [01:14:30.934]YOU KNOW WHAT THE MAIN THING IS?
- [01:14:34.467]WE WHITES IN SOUTH AFRICA HAVE NOT BEEN DRIVEN INTO THE SEA.
- [01:14:38.133]WE'RE STILL AROUND.
- [01:14:41.166]YOU KNOW WHAT?
- [01:14:41.900]I'M GOING TO BE BURIED THERE.
- [01:14:44.767]I SPOKE TO A VERY CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF THE RIGHT-WING
- [01:14:54.900]COMMUNITY RECENTLY, THE AMC HAS GIVEN HIM A POST ON THE CABINET.
- [01:14:59.900]AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTION I CAN MAKE?
- [01:15:05.800]DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTION I CAN MAKE TO THIS
- [01:15:10.900]SOUTH AFRICAN DEMOCRACY IS TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE PRESIDENT
- [01:15:14.266]THAT I'M GOING NOWHERE.
- [01:15:17.200]THEY HAVE TO SHOOT ME, AND I DON'T THINK THEY'LL DO THAT, BUT
- [01:15:20.433]I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
- [01:15:21.967]I'M STAYING.
- [01:15:23.266]I THINK THAT'S WHAT BLACK PEOPLE AND OTHERS NEED TO SAY IN THE
- [01:15:28.533]SOUTH AFRICAN MOSAIC.
- [01:15:29.333]I THINK WE'RE DOING OKAY.
- [01:15:33.100]>> WHAT ARE THE RELATIONS BETWEEN NORTH AFRICAN COUNTRIES,
- [01:15:40.033]MOROCCO AND EGYPT TO COUNTRIES IN SOUTHERN AFRICA?
- [01:15:45.266]>> WOW.
- [01:15:49.834]I'M PRESENTLY WRITING A BOOK.
- [01:15:54.567]THAT'S WHAT ACADEMICS DO.
- [01:15:56.567]NOT EVERYBODY READS THEM, BUT THEY WRITE THEM AND IT MAKES
- [01:16:00.600]THEM FEEL BETTER.
- [01:16:01.367]GET IT OFF YOUR CHEST.
- [01:16:02.700]IT'S A THERAPEUTIC EXPERIENCE.
- [01:16:05.900]I'M WRITING A BOOK AND I'M GOING TO ENTITLE IT WITH "THE ARAB
- [01:16:18.033]SPRING AND THE ARAB RENAISSANCE," AND I'M GOING TO
- [01:16:25.266]TRY TO WRESTLE WITH THIS, CAN THE TRANSITIONAL JUSTICE
- [01:16:33.700]MECHANISMS OF THE WEST WHICH WE EMPLOYED IN THE WEST THROUGH THE
- [01:16:40.700]RECONCILIATION, CAN THIS HELP WITH THE TRANSITION THAT IS
- [01:16:42.734]HAPPENING IN THE ARAB WORLD, AND CAN THOSE GOOD EGYPTIANS WHO
- [01:16:49.367]WERE ROUND LONG, LONG BEFORE YOU AND I WERE THOUGHT OF, DO THEY
- [01:16:58.066]HAVE SOMETHING TO TEACH US HOW WE HEAL AND RECOVER?
- [01:17:00.133]LET ME ADD ONE FOOTNOTE.
- [01:17:02.667]YOU MAY KNOW WHEN MR. MANDELA FIRST FLED THE COUNTRY, BEFORE
- [01:17:09.033]HE LANDED IN JAIL FOR 27 YEARS, HE WENT INTO NORTH AFRICA AND IT
- [01:17:13.734]WAS ARAB COUNTRIES, INCLUDING LIBYA, WHO RECEIVED HIM AND
- [01:17:20.367]TRAINED HIM AND SUPPORTED HIM AFTER HE WENT HOME.
- [01:17:24.834]SO THERE'S A LOT OF HISTORY THERE.
- [01:17:27.967]THERE'S A LOT OF HISTORY THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE UNPACKED AND
- [01:17:32.100]UNDERSTOOD, AND AT THE HEART OF THAT THING IS, CAN AN ARAB
- [01:17:35.900]BECOME AN AFRICAN?
- [01:17:38.433]AND CAN A WHITE PERSON BECOME AN AFRICAN?
- [01:17:42.400]THAT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE WE FACE IN AFRICA TODAY.
- [01:17:47.133]>> ANOTHER QUESTION.
- [01:17:48.900]WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE FUTURE OF THE CONSTITUTIONS?
- [01:17:53.633]AND HERE I'M ASSUMING THE AUTHOR OF THE QUESTION REFERS TO THE
- [01:18:00.400]SOUTH AFRICAN CONSTITUTION.
- [01:18:03.500]WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE GUARANTEE OF GAY
- [01:18:08.800]AND LESBIAN RIGHTS?
- [01:18:09.467]>> WHAT IS A CONSTITUTION?
- [01:18:10.066]IT'S A PIECE OF PAPER.
- [01:18:14.000]AT A DEEPER LEVEL, IT'S A SOCIAL CONTRACT.
- [01:18:17.033]IT'S A SET OF RULES BY WHICH WE IN THIS HOUSE AGREE THAT WE WILL
- [01:18:25.367]COEXIST, AND THE SOUTH AFRICAN CONSTITUTION AFFIRMS THE RIGHTS
- [01:18:31.333]OF ALL PEOPLE -- RACIAL, GENDER, AND BY GENDER IT MEANS THOSE
- [01:18:41.433]PEOPLE WHO ARE MALE, SIMPLY MALE, THOSE PEOPLE WHO CLASSIFY
- [01:18:49.800]THEMSELVES AS WOMEN, THOSE WHO CLASSIFY THEMSELVES AS GAYS.
- [01:18:54.700]THE AMAZING THING, IN SOUTH AFRICA, THEY USE THE WORD "GAY
- [01:19:00.533]RIGHTS," IT'S IN BETTER SHAPE THAN IT'S EVER BEEN.
- [01:19:03.233]WE CAN'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES.
- [01:19:09.433]IN UGANDA, YOU CAN STILL GO TO JAIL FOR COMING OUT AND MR.
- [01:19:21.333]MR. MAGABI HAS MADE IT CLEAR, IF YOU ARE GAY, YOU ARE THE
- [01:19:26.967]INCARNATION OF SOMETHING EVIL AND WRONG AND IT IS HIS
- [01:19:31.033]RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET SEXUALLY IN LINE.
- [01:19:34.433]I DON'T THINK THAT GAYS HAVE EVER HAD IT SO GOOD IN SOUTH
- [01:19:39.500]AFRICA, AND WE'RE VERY PROUD OF THAT.
- [01:19:43.066]>> IN VIEW OF THE HISTORY OF COLONIALISM, HOW DOES AFRICA
- [01:19:46.667]RECONCILE WITH CORPORATE EXPLOITATION TODAY?
- [01:19:50.500]>> WITH DIFFICULTY, SIR.
- [01:19:51.967]WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY.
- [01:19:54.166]I THINK THE ONLY THING WE CAN SAY, WE'VE GOT A LONG HISTORY OF
- [01:20:00.333]TRYING TO OVERCOME IT.
- [01:20:02.033]BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT COLONIALISM WAS ALL ABOUT, AND THAT'S WHAT
- [01:20:08.433]WE'RE STILL SEEING IN TERMS OF GLOBAL ECONOMICS
- [01:20:11.367]AND GLOBAL TRADE.
- [01:20:15.633]WE'VE GOT TO DEVISE SOME SORT OF MECHANISM WHEREBY COUNTRIES SUCH
- [01:20:23.000]AS AFRICAN COUNTRIES THAT HAVE ALL THOSE RICH MINERAL RESOURCES
- [01:20:29.333]CAN GET A BETTER DEAL.
- [01:20:31.400]NOW, THIS IS NOT JUST AN OPTIMISTIC HOPE.
- [01:20:35.467]I WANT TO SUGGEST THAT IT'S IT IS CAPITALIST WORLD ECONOMY AS
- [01:20:39.900]WE KNOW IT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO SURVIVE AND HOPEFULLY TO
- [01:20:43.633]PROSPER AND TO MAKE US ALL RICH AND HAPPY TO LIVE EVER AFTER.
- [01:20:50.066]IF THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, THEN WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT
- [01:20:53.333]THOSE PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PILE, THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE
- [01:20:58.633]DIGGING GOLD AND DIAMONDS AND PLATINUM OUT OF THE MINES ARE
- [01:21:08.233]PREPARED TO DO SO.
- [01:21:09.367]AND THAT IS GOING TO REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE A SLIGHTLY
- [01:21:12.300]BETTER DEAL IN LIFE.
- [01:21:16.400]THOSE WHO OWN THOSE GLOBAL COMPANIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO
- [01:21:21.266]BE PREPARED TO DO WITH A LITTLE LESS.
- [01:21:24.467]SO THOSE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PILE CAN GET A LITTLE MORE.
- [01:21:29.367]BUT I THINK THAT FITS INTO YOUR PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, SO I'LL
- [01:21:32.233]LEAVE IT THERE.
- [01:21:35.066]>> BEFORE WE CLOSE, LET ME MAKE TWO ANNOUNCEMENTS THIS EVENING.
- [01:21:40.667]THE NEXT THOMPSON FORUM WILL BE NOVEMBER 28TH.
- [01:21:43.233]THAT WILL BE THE CHUCK AND LINDA WILSON DIALOGUE ON THE DEATH
- [01:21:52.033]PENALTY -- JUSTICE, RETRIBUTION, AND DOLLARS, MODERATED BY THE
- [01:21:58.700]DEAN OF THE LAW SCHOOL HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY.
- [01:22:03.567]THE SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT IS THAT THE BOOKS THAT -- OR AT LEAST
- [01:22:10.166]SOME OF THE BOOKS THAT PROFESSOR VILLA-VICENCIO HAS WRITTEN ARE
- [01:22:16.066]AVAILABLE OUT IN THE HALLWAY, SO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE
- [01:22:20.900]OPPORTUNITY TO PICK UP ONE OR MORE OF THOSE SO YOU CAN READ
- [01:22:23.633]MORE OF HIS INSIGHTS INTO SOUTH AFRICA
- [01:22:30.100]AND AFRICA MORE GENERALLY.
- [01:22:31.433]NOW, LET ME ASK YOU, ONCE AGAIN, TO EXPRESS OUR APPRECIATION FOR
- [01:22:38.967]HIS CONTRIBUTION TO THE THOMPSON FORUM AND THE PAULEY SYMPOSIUM.
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