S2E15: Beyond Old MacDonald- Building Joyful Classrooms with Music

Nebraska Extension Early Childhood Program Area-Emily Manning, Dr. Holly Hatton, Ingrid Lindal, Erin Kampbell, Linda Reddish, Katie Krause, and LaDonna Werth Author

05/13/2025 Added

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Discover how every educator can confidently bring music into their classroom, regardless of musical background. With guests, Jentry Barrett (Nebraska Extension) and Mollie von Kampen (Ruth Staples Child Development Lab), this episode offers practical tips and heartfelt encouragement, reminding us that with a little practice and a lot of heart, your voice is more than enough to inspire young learners through song. Resources Jentry’s research- https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/famconfacpub/322/ Kindermusick- https://www.kindermusik.com/

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[00:00:00.000]This is The Good Life in Early Life, a production of Nebraska Extension.
[00:00:09.160]I'm your host, Emily Manning, an Early Childhood Extension Educator based in Seward County.
[00:00:13.540]In this episode, we are exploring music in early childhood with two guests from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
[00:00:19.880]I'm going to have them introduce themselves and share about their expertise and what they're doing.
[00:00:25.680]So, Jentry, would you go first for us?
[00:00:28.180]You bet.
[00:00:29.200]Jentry Barrett, I work for Nebraska Extension.
[00:00:31.600]I was a violinist growing up.
[00:00:34.540]I learned through the Suzuki method and played all the way through college.
[00:00:39.860]My undergraduate degree is in music education.
[00:00:42.540]While my husband was still finishing up his bachelor's degree, and then we were going to move to Nebraska for graduate school.
[00:00:49.980]And so during that year, I did a little bit of subbing.
[00:00:53.420]And I remember going into preschool classrooms.
[00:00:57.820]And during music time, they gathered the kids into a circle and turned on a CD and passed out some stuffies and sang to Old MacDonald How to Farm.
[00:01:07.820]And I had just finished this music education degree and thought to myself, well, this could be really a lot cooler.
[00:01:16.980]We could have more instruments or more movement or different sorts of extensions.
[00:01:24.080]And my mind just started thinking about all.
[00:01:27.780]All of these things that could be possible.
[00:01:29.160]And so I started a master's degree in early childhood education and child development here at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
[00:01:38.120]And I started student teaching at Ruth Staples, where we're recording today.
[00:01:43.100]And I was finding the same things, that the preschool teachers were feeling uncomfortable or didn't have all the tools that they could have to not just have music time, but to intentionally teach music skills to the kids.
[00:01:56.340]They just didn't have the tools that they needed.
[00:01:57.760]So that's how I got interested in this intersection in early childhood and music.
[00:02:02.560]Thanks for sharing your experience with us, Jentry.
[00:02:05.040]And I cannot wait for what you're going to share with us.
[00:02:07.680]Mollie, would you like to share your work and what you do at UNL?
[00:02:13.080]So I'm Mollie von Kampen.
[00:02:14.360]I'm the assistant director and also a master teacher here at Ruth Staples Child Development Lab on East Campus at UNL.
[00:02:21.360]So I've been here roughly 10 years-ish, maybe a little more.
[00:02:25.340]And I've worked with all age groups.
[00:02:27.660]So my love has always been with the toddlers, so 18 months to about three.
[00:02:32.180]I love just being with them and seeing those little light bulb moments for them.
[00:02:36.660]And Jentry and I actually crossed paths when she was here at Ruth Staples.
[00:02:40.820]I was a lead teacher at the time with the toddlers.
[00:02:44.860]And so we got to really explore together what can music look like for this age group.
[00:02:51.340]So Jentry, I feel like you've already answered your favorite childhood memory, you know, playing the violin as a young.
[00:02:57.640]But Mollie, I want to hear from you.
[00:02:59.580]What's a favorite childhood memory?
[00:03:01.520]For me, for music, it goes way back to early childhood.
[00:03:05.600]And I have a memory of being in kindergarten.
[00:03:09.620]And I grew up in small town Nebraska.
[00:03:11.700]And so we did half day kindergarten.
[00:03:13.920]And when the noon whistle blew in Seward, that meant that I went to kindergarten.
[00:03:18.160]So I knew that sound.
[00:03:19.540]And every morning before I went to kindergarten, I would watch Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.
[00:03:24.220]And so those songs are.
[00:03:27.620]just ingrained in me.
[00:03:29.320]And it was really the first time that I heard music that was really meant for kids, but
[00:03:35.380]it wasn't silly.
[00:03:36.540]It was really intentional.
[00:03:38.340]And so I now know as an adult and as an early childhood educator, why that was so important.
[00:03:45.380]So let's move into how can teachers or caregivers incorporate music into several aspects of
[00:03:51.780]the day?
[00:03:52.140]I think Jentry, you were kind of hinting at this a little bit.
[00:03:54.760]There doesn't have to be a time for music.
[00:03:57.600]How do we do that?
[00:03:58.220]Well, we're going to kind of combine our powers on this one.
[00:04:01.620]I'd love to just kind of talk about just as a classroom teacher, how I did that, and
[00:04:06.800]also how I coach our pre-service teachers here at the lab school to incorporate those
[00:04:11.480]things.
[00:04:11.720]So I think the biggest lesson that I've learned about using music in the classroom is that
[00:04:18.460]it doesn't have to have a time.
[00:04:20.480]Music can be used in so many different ways.
[00:04:24.440]A way that I love to use it is during a transition time.
[00:04:27.580]We spend, as educators, I know that there's some research studies out there.
[00:04:31.260]I'm going to do my best to remember.
[00:04:33.000]I think children spend about 50 to 60% of their day in some sort of transition.
[00:04:38.340]So, you know, coming to school, that's a transition.
[00:04:41.400]Going potty to breakfast table, that's a transition.
[00:04:45.200]And so if we can make those moments have some intentional teaching behind them, then, you
[00:04:51.860]know, we're maximizing all of that time that they're with us.
[00:04:54.820]And music is just such a great way to do that.
[00:04:57.560]It doesn't have to be some beautifully set up thing.
[00:05:00.960]So I use the same tune for pretty much every transition.
[00:05:04.680]I just change the words.
[00:05:06.340]And so sometimes it works beautifully.
[00:05:09.000]Sometimes it's really clumsy, but the kids don't care.
[00:05:11.600]They love to be in that connection with you.
[00:05:14.100]And it helps you get from one place to another without them really realizing, oh, I'm stopping
[00:05:19.520]this thing and going on to something else.
[00:05:21.420]And so that's a huge piece of where I use it most often, I think, in the classroom.
[00:05:26.020]Can I hear your transitions?
[00:05:27.540]Is that a song?
[00:05:27.780]Yes.
[00:05:29.160]Jentry, you actually taught me this song.
[00:05:31.820]It's the do as I'm doing, follow, follow me, do as I'm doing, follow, follow me.
[00:05:38.960]And the one they love the best is like the next part where it goes, you can do it fast
[00:05:44.320]or slow.
[00:05:45.140]They love that because who doesn't want to do like run to the bathroom?
[00:05:49.780]Like, yeah, let's do that.
[00:05:51.460]Or the you can do it high or low.
[00:05:54.660]And then we go and we do it again.
[00:05:56.660]And so that's one.
[00:05:57.580]I use a ton that I learned from Jentry.
[00:05:59.480]This is excellent.
[00:06:00.660]I love the idea of using music as a way to cue, you know, so cueing that a transition
[00:06:06.640]is coming, giving them a way to participate in the transition.
[00:06:09.280]50 to 60 percent.
[00:06:11.800]Oh, yeah.
[00:06:12.240]Spent in transition.
[00:06:13.260]Good gracious.
[00:06:14.420]There's some research that says when you introduce a song to a kiddo, just like any other
[00:06:20.900]developmental learning, how to walk, learning how to skip, it takes a minute for their
[00:06:27.500]bodies and their brains to all catch up to each other.
[00:06:30.020]And so if you're going to introduce a song to a kiddo, they're going to need to listen
[00:06:35.700]to it several times.
[00:06:37.440]Then they're going to attach to the tune.
[00:06:39.940]They'll be able to sing the tune, but maybe not the words.
[00:06:42.100]And then they'll use the words.
[00:06:43.920]And so you should sing a single song about four times every time.
[00:06:51.440]And you shouldn't retire that song until the kids have sung it 16 times.
[00:06:57.480]So that's an entire week of music time or an entire month.
[00:07:01.260]And then you can do exactly what Mollie talked about and add these extensions.
[00:07:04.620]Can we sing the same song that we've been singing for three weeks now,
[00:07:08.980]but we're going to sing it with handbells?
[00:07:11.540]And now we're going to stand up and do it on our tiptoes.
[00:07:14.900]And now we're going to all turn around and walk backwards while we sing it.
[00:07:20.540]Or, you know, like, what are all the different ways that we can incorporate
[00:07:23.980]the other skills we're working on, the other gross motor, the other
[00:07:27.460]fine motor, the other sharing.
[00:07:29.540]Okay, so every other kid has a bell and every other kid has rhythm sticks.
[00:07:33.060]So we've sung it once with your rhythm stick, you know, everyone playing
[00:07:36.720]their instrument.
[00:07:37.160]Now I want you to pass that instrument to your neighbor.
[00:07:39.640]So we're practicing sharing.
[00:07:41.400]So we're practicing a self-control.
[00:07:43.440]We're practicing all of these things can be incorporated by singing the same
[00:07:47.960]song over and over and over again.
[00:07:50.600]And the selection of the song, I think, is also important that young kids have
[00:07:57.440]two octaves that they can sing.
[00:08:00.060]However, they can only sing about an octave in tune and maybe not even that,
[00:08:06.300]maybe like five or six notes, depending on the age.
[00:08:08.860]And so keeping the songs within a pretty short range, like middle C to A above
[00:08:15.260]middle C is where kids feel the most comfortable.
[00:08:18.300]And so that's possibly, so I'm quite tall and have a deep voice.
[00:08:23.880]And so that's a little high for me.
[00:08:25.680]So I have to be really intentional.
[00:08:27.420]It's about making sure that I'm not pitching the songs for my vocal, but for the kids vocal.
[00:08:33.500]So having some sort of way to hear like a glockenspiel or something that can give you
[00:08:39.420]a starting note would be really useful.
[00:08:41.760]There's also ways to incorporate music into center activities.
[00:08:45.520]And so creating like a music corner, Mollie, I'd love to hear how you've done this in the
[00:08:51.760]past, but thinking about could there be musical instruments?
[00:08:54.720]Could there be scarves for dancing?
[00:08:56.260]Could there be an MP?
[00:08:57.520]Three player with different songs on it?
[00:08:59.900]Could there be books about different musical instruments or books about like the itsy
[00:09:04.760]bitsy spider that have a song embedded in them?
[00:09:07.200]Could you have a tablet with videos of symphony orchestra?
[00:09:10.400]I think there's a lot of opportunities to have like a music center time where kids are
[00:09:16.100]allowed to explore freely and all sorts of different things.
[00:09:20.360]Mollie, how have you done that in center time?
[00:09:22.340]You kind of engaged two things in my brain when you were talking about that.
[00:09:26.500]One.
[00:09:27.380]That we need to make music and instruments and that accessible throughout the day.
[00:09:33.220]That it's not just instruments come out at this time.
[00:09:37.760]They're controlled by teachers and that's our experience with music.
[00:09:42.020]And so ways that I've done that and ways that I've started speaking more from like that
[00:09:46.900]toddler perspective is that we're going to offer small amounts of those things for them
[00:09:52.380]to explore.
[00:09:53.040]And so there's going to be five little egg shakers in the basket and that's going to
[00:09:57.260]be.
[00:09:57.360]With our normal centers, you get to explore these things.
[00:10:00.340]I think one mistake we kind of make is like an overwhelming amount of things.
[00:10:04.200]And so start small where you can handle five egg shakers as a teacher.
[00:10:09.440]Could I handle 20 sets of bells?
[00:10:11.880]No, that would be too overwhelming.
[00:10:13.660]And so starting with those small accessible ways for them to get experience with it, because
[00:10:19.420]it's also going to feed into when I get out the egg shakers to do a music time, they know
[00:10:24.400]how to use them appropriately.
[00:10:26.140]And it's not like.
[00:10:27.340]This new thing that all of a sudden there's like, I just want to hoard this and figure
[00:10:31.040]out how to use it while I'm trying to do a song.
[00:10:34.060]Cause that doesn't work either.
[00:10:35.480]If the children are just invested in what is this new thing, they're not going to hear
[00:10:40.840]what you're actually presenting to them.
[00:10:43.200]And so to make those things accessible throughout the day kind of helps you create a better
[00:10:49.400]circle time experience later on when you want to do that.
[00:10:52.380]Another thing I thought of, we've been talking about singing and doing that with children.
[00:10:57.320]And we here on the podcast had talked about that we're all comfortable doing that.
[00:11:02.120]I just want to recognize that you may not be comfortable doing that and singing, but
[00:11:07.220]I will tell you, children just want to be in that connection with you.
[00:11:10.980]It does not matter how you sound.
[00:11:12.660]If you forget the tune in the middle, it's fine.
[00:11:15.400]They don't care.
[00:11:16.860]They might even help you out.
[00:11:18.200]That repetition is so important for them.
[00:11:21.220]We know that in other developmental ways, too.
[00:11:23.940]We read the same book 600 times because they get the
[00:11:27.300]pattern, they get the rhythm, they know what happens
[00:11:29.360]next.
[00:11:29.640]It's the same with music, too.
[00:11:31.040]You want that repetition throughout the day.
[00:11:33.420]So I think it is really good advice.
[00:11:35.540]Like pick one tune that you're comfortable with and
[00:11:38.220]just use that one.
[00:11:39.280]Start small.
[00:11:40.400]It does not have to be overwhelming.
[00:11:42.300]So those are just kind of ways that I've tried to also
[00:11:46.460]coach our pre-service teachers on incorporating and
[00:11:50.000]getting comfortable in the classroom is please like
[00:11:52.300]start small.
[00:11:52.940]Do something that you love or that you remember from
[00:11:55.940]your childhood or.
[00:11:57.280]Let's pull up and use our resources on YouTube so
[00:12:01.000]you can hear the tune while you're doing it.
[00:12:02.880]We don't have to watch the video.
[00:12:04.340]Actually, I prefer that we don't, but you can at
[00:12:07.600]least hear it and feel like you have a little bit
[00:12:09.920]of support to all make it awkward and just sing
[00:12:12.580]super loud with them in the classroom.
[00:12:14.020]But I pre-service teachers.
[00:12:16.080]Yes, with our pre-service teachers.
[00:12:17.520]But, you know, if you have access to that sort of
[00:12:20.520]technology, it can be helpful to just kind of get
[00:12:22.340]you started and get you comfortable.
[00:12:23.460]Yeah, I really like what you guys are saying.
[00:12:25.680]Like, just start with one song and
[00:12:27.260]get really comfortable with that.
[00:12:28.560]Because I think with when you're teaching,
[00:12:30.400]you have a lot on your mental load.
[00:12:32.660]Like you're you have like a thousand decisions
[00:12:34.700]that you're making throughout the day.
[00:12:36.040]You're keeping track of where everybody's at
[00:12:38.100]in the classroom.
[00:12:38.700]It can feel really overwhelming to think
[00:12:41.600]that you have to learn a ton of songs.
[00:12:43.220]It's like, no, just start with one
[00:12:44.860]and just build on that one.
[00:12:47.160]I think that seems doable for someone.
[00:12:49.660]And then you were talking about Jentry.
[00:12:51.640]You were talking about octaves and range
[00:12:53.540]and things like that.
[00:12:54.400]And then Mollie, you were talking about
[00:12:57.240]comfortability in your singing voice.
[00:12:59.200]And so if you think about children's songs,
[00:13:01.760]they don't need a huge range.
[00:13:03.200]So it's actually probably gonna be pretty simple
[00:13:05.400]for you as an adult
[00:13:06.460]because it's not gonna be a really high and low range
[00:13:09.460]that you're trying to reach.
[00:13:10.520]It's gonna be fairly doable.
[00:13:11.900]So I think that's really helpful
[00:13:14.060]to hear some of those things.
[00:13:15.520]But then I did wanna ask you,
[00:13:17.140]as you guys were talking about adding in instruments,
[00:13:19.280]adding in music into a center.
[00:13:21.180]But one of the things that I hear from teachers,
[00:13:24.360]because I work with teachers,
[00:13:25.380]I get professional development from teachers,
[00:13:27.220]and they said one of their stressors,
[00:13:29.320]or biggest stressors,
[00:13:30.520]is having a lot of noise in the classroom.
[00:13:33.900]And so when we add in instruments,
[00:13:36.040]you're automatically adding in to that noise level.
[00:13:39.520]So what can we do for teachers
[00:13:42.000]who find that another stressor for them?
[00:13:44.360]Absolutely.
[00:13:45.300]And it is a stressor.
[00:13:46.820]You're right.
[00:13:47.240]Like 20 bells in the center is not recommended.
[00:13:50.860]And teachers have to do what's going to be best for them.
[00:13:54.420]Absolutely.
[00:13:55.380]So I think egg shakers
[00:13:57.200]are a perfect center instrument
[00:14:00.040]because they don't make a ton of noise
[00:14:03.660]or just scarves or headphones
[00:14:06.140]or ways that it's going to be
[00:14:10.500]not as much noise.
[00:14:12.660]Like the MP3 player with some headphones.
[00:14:14.480]Exactly.
[00:14:15.000]Would be a great way.
[00:14:16.180]And then scarves for dancing.
[00:14:17.660]Right.
[00:14:18.200]And so it's not outside noise that you're hearing.
[00:14:22.740]The other thing is when you're,
[00:14:24.700]if you're in a large circle time
[00:14:27.180]and doing instruments,
[00:14:28.320]it's really important to start with,
[00:14:32.180]you can start with body percussion.
[00:14:34.140]Instruments are also,
[00:14:35.420]it can be expensive.
[00:14:36.700]Like that's also an investment.
[00:14:38.400]Right.
[00:14:39.040]And so you don't have to have a thousand of anything.
[00:14:43.200]Young kids.
[00:14:44.120]So the kids that Mollie works with,
[00:14:45.840]18 months to three years,
[00:14:47.020]aren't great at keeping a steady beat.
[00:14:48.980]The oldest ones will be,
[00:14:50.560]but stop start is a really good things with the instruments.
[00:14:54.780]So we're all going to,
[00:14:56.160]you know,
[00:14:57.160]pound our,
[00:14:58.140]our knees as loud as we can.
[00:14:59.780]And we're going to stop and we're going to sing,
[00:15:01.460]you know,
[00:15:01.680]and we're going to sing this once without our,
[00:15:03.400]you know,
[00:15:03.900]tapping the floor.
[00:15:05.120]And now we're going to start.
[00:15:06.100]So practicing that stop,
[00:15:07.660]start,
[00:15:07.940]stop,
[00:15:08.280]start with just body percussion can be an easy way to get started.
[00:15:12.800]And then passing out egg shakers are probably the least amount of noise and
[00:15:17.660]practicing like,
[00:15:18.400]okay,
[00:15:18.680]our instruments stay in our laps.
[00:15:20.480]We put,
[00:15:21.180]you know,
[00:15:21.480]our hands on our knees.
[00:15:22.760]We're,
[00:15:23.300]we're practicing constantly practicing the appropriate way to handle
[00:15:27.140]instruments.
[00:15:27.980]And then as they progress into preschool,
[00:15:30.020]things can become more intricate.
[00:15:32.800]So rhythm sticks,
[00:15:34.380]rhythm sticks,
[00:15:35.100]aren't terribly expensive.
[00:15:36.480]Bells can be a little expensive.
[00:15:38.940]I think bells are probably on the more expensive side,
[00:15:41.300]but you know,
[00:15:42.020]could everyone could three quarters of the kids have rhythm sticks and
[00:15:45.360]three quarters have bells and everybody,
[00:15:46.800]you know,
[00:15:47.240]takes turns practicing things like that.
[00:15:49.900]So I very much understand that instruments are noise.
[00:15:53.660]They are,
[00:15:54.220]they just plain old are.
[00:15:55.280]And so being intentional about,
[00:15:57.120]I'm going to put my quietest instruments in the center and we're going to
[00:16:01.180]save the louder instruments for music time.
[00:16:05.100]When I have just a little bit more control over stopping and starting a
[00:16:09.120]little bit more control.
[00:16:10.720]Mollie,
[00:16:14.420]could you talk about the Ruth Staples outdoor instruments?
[00:16:17.120]Because that's something that's amazing about Ruth Staples.
[00:16:19.560]Yeah,
[00:16:20.040]we are.
[00:16:20.520]We are very fortunate to have,
[00:16:23.000]have some outdoor instruments and they were they were installed quite a while ago um so they have
[00:16:28.030]some serious longevity that is also free access for our children to be able to make music on a
[00:16:34.510]daily basis so we have outside it's outside so that noise level makes a difference it totally
[00:16:40.190]does make a difference and so we have a like a steel drum we have some kind of glockenspiel
[00:16:46.350]bell type instruments and then we have just some hand drums that they're installed so they don't
[00:16:52.430]move they're always in one area and children are able to explore that on their own and make music
[00:16:59.170]however you know they feel so we've done lots of different things with those movements is a natural
[00:17:04.770]thing children like to do there is a stage that they're able to perform on while somebody else
[00:17:10.310]makes music so it kind of allows you to incorporate that performance piece as well so yeah if if you
[00:17:17.410]have that opportunity there are instruments that are made to be outside all the time and are
[00:17:21.870]very durable earlier when you were talking about having the egg shaker and having them listen for
[00:17:26.590]it in a song it reminded me of I had a really great music teacher when I was in elementary
[00:17:30.730]school and one of her activities that she did with us was she would play a sound of an instrument
[00:17:36.210]and have the instrument in front of us and then we would listen to another song and she would ask
[00:17:41.850]raise your hand when you think that instrument starts playing in the song and it was so
[00:17:46.410]fun it would have been even really cool to like have a professional player come in and play then
[00:17:51.810]for us yeah that was activity something I wanted to be sure we talked about too was lots of people
[00:17:56.670]have experience with music even if like hey I took piano lessons when I was seven like do you
[00:18:02.370]remember how to play twinkle twinkle could you show us that it doesn't have to be I mean it'd
[00:18:07.170]be great if you had like a professional orchestra player like come in and do that
[00:18:10.830]like how wonderful but oftentimes people have a lot more experience than you think
[00:18:15.570]so asking your families in your program maybe grandma and grandpa does and just reaching out
[00:18:21.750]and see you know if you don't feel like an expert maybe somebody that's pretty close to you might be
[00:18:28.470]able to come in and support that and I think it does it builds some connections within your
[00:18:32.490]community too that's another resource to pull on too like do you have a community choir that meets
[00:18:37.710]that would be willing to come in and sing Old McDonald with the children it does not have to be
[00:18:43.050]yes absolutely um there are people making music all the time I think if you just reach out and
[00:18:49.950]ask that question of do you
[00:18:51.690]just want to come in and be with us is an easy way to get started I love I love this idea of
[00:18:56.950]using the people you've got to to bring in and give opportunities and then I'm also making
[00:19:03.050]connections between you know like this listening and this prosody and this like there's so many
[00:19:08.490]connections to our literacy development and our speech development that can be practiced
[00:19:14.170]with music so kids bodies tend to be coordinated top down in out
[00:19:21.630]so they're going to be able to make gross motor movements long before they're going to be able to make fine motor movements
[00:19:26.790]and so you're working on those skills anyway throughout your preschool day so how can you
[00:19:32.470]incorporate music into that you're learning about transportation one week so how can you sing songs
[00:19:39.650]about buses and trains and airplanes you're learning about different body parts so how can
[00:19:45.130]you play you can do the hokey pokey or things like that to help children learn about their different
[00:19:51.570]body parts and sing music and so use what you're already doing and think about how could I
[00:19:58.650]incorporate a song a dance some sort of movement into this already some sort of instrument to what
[00:20:07.950]we're already doing while you were talking that kind of triggered a thought for me that
[00:20:12.250]again Fred Rogers was such a huge part of my life growing up and just understanding how that impact
[00:20:18.150]has continued for a lot of my
[00:20:21.510]pre-service teachers now it's Daniel Tiger's neighborhood and they actually did a research
[00:20:26.430]study I think it was out of California and they asked kids who grew up with Daniel Tiger and some
[00:20:32.990]of those songs that he does like grown-ups come back like that one I use that one all the time
[00:20:38.150]but they asked those college-age students like do you remember those and they could all sing them
[00:20:44.610]wow and they're like I remember taking four deep breaths and I still do that and so I think like
[00:20:51.450]which is I'm like I'm so glad somebody decided to do that research because I was like I think
[00:20:56.330]that I'm seeing that but now like here's the data to show you that yes it does work has it been
[00:21:02.230]around that long Daniel Tiger oh my gosh yes how old are right I mean like it makes sense right
[00:21:08.690]like we know every word to every Emily maybe you're too young but like I still know every
[00:21:13.090]word to NSYNC and Backstreet Boys oh it's like I'm not too young for that I'm like brain like
[00:21:18.670]whenever it comes on and I'm like I still know like brain I could have used that brain space
[00:21:23.090]for so many other things but you held on to this yes is it the NSYNC song where Justin Timberlake
[00:21:30.390]says like it's gotta be me totally and I'm thinking about today yes April 30th it's Justin
[00:21:36.650]Timberlake day yeah but I think that that also shows like that that also is what's special I
[00:21:44.270]guess about music is that it is that connection right like we
[00:21:48.350]want that connection as humans kids want that connection with their teachers they want that
[00:21:53.410]with their caregivers and so music is a way that you're already building those relationships with
[00:21:59.730]children so build that in right alongside you and it just creates I think this this magical
[00:22:06.130]thing that just stays with us it just transforms I think in a way that other things don't I think
[00:22:13.910]music has a way of creating community it brings in people in the community but then
[00:22:18.030]also helps create like social interactions like patty cake patty cake some of those turn-taking
[00:22:24.010]things you can do that with music and helping teach children how to do that within a song and
[00:22:30.630]it's a fun way to do that so one more thing that I wanted to touch on together is in many early
[00:22:37.070]childhood classrooms we get children from around the world we can have diverse classroom settings
[00:22:42.770]and that's especially true here at Ruth Staples what do you recommend Mollie so that
[00:22:47.710]all children are reflected or represented in music that is being shared in the classroom
[00:22:52.930]to answer that question we have to talk about kind of some bigger umbrella things that cover
[00:22:59.390]that and so at Ruth Staples we always say that learning happens in the context of relationships
[00:23:05.230]and so your relationship with the child your connection with the family is going to help
[00:23:11.790]inform those choices and so one way that we do that here we've
[00:23:17.390]done a music project you know children are naturally really interested in music
[00:23:21.710]and so we follow that thread of interest a couple different times over the years
[00:23:25.890]of really diving deep into children's interest in music and one way that we
[00:23:30.830]start is we make that connection with the family to say do you listen to music
[00:23:34.370]in your house what are your favorite things to listen to and so starting with
[00:23:39.150]the family and the child I think is going to inform those choices of what
[00:23:43.570]you bring into your classroom and it's gonna make it more meaningful to that child
[00:23:47.070]if they have that connection with the music already and then I think you kind
[00:23:50.730]of have to figure out as a teacher from there what do I have in my classroom
[00:23:55.970]what's important to our families that I can now introduce to other people and so
[00:24:00.670]that might look like starting with like what's your favorite playlist that you
[00:24:04.570]listen to on the way to school I will say one teacher tip make sure you listen
[00:24:08.010]to the song all the way through before you put it on in the classroom or just google the lyrics too that helps but can you have that going you
[00:24:16.750]know that playlist going as children come into the classroom is one way that
[00:24:20.290]you can start really small if children are really interested in that topic then
[00:24:23.950]it's a great time to bring in some of these other things that we've talked
[00:24:26.650]about so like you hear drums in your favorite song one of the children here
[00:24:31.510]his favorite song was we will rock you and so we figured out that pattern just
[00:24:36.670]using body percussion so that kind of reminded me of that yeah you know like
[00:24:41.290]that's something that you do at football games if you go or you know I think the
[00:24:46.430]to answer that question you want it to be authentic to what the children are
[00:24:50.450]experiencing and then start there use that as a vehicle like do we want to
[00:24:55.250]explore more so we heard violins in this song do you know what a violin sounds
[00:24:59.670]like or looks like and then like slowly incorporating those things so it might
[00:25:04.290]be that you do have a family that listens to a type of music maybe that
[00:25:08.290]you don't listen to and so you have to as the teacher figure out okay what's
[00:25:13.510]important to that family where does that come from
[00:25:16.110]how do i want to honor that in a way that isn't like this music is from this
[00:25:20.270]specific place and it's like it takes away that
[00:25:23.370]connection and so I think start with that connection to really
[00:25:27.250]make it meaningful to the families and the children that
[00:25:29.890]you have I love that because it's like putting aside your assumptions
[00:25:33.410]like oh I know this child is from so and like place
[00:25:37.210]i'm gonna find music from that place and play it rather than
[00:25:41.450]like you said like connecting with the child and the family first to find out
[00:25:45.790]if they even like that music maybe they like it's gonna be me by
[00:25:50.070]and that's what they listen to on the way to school and so
[00:25:53.810]they'd be like why are you playing this yeah no oftentimes
[00:25:57.050]yeah we do make assumptions about that and I think that
[00:26:01.090]for a lot of us growing up music was presented to us
[00:26:04.610]that way of like this music and this instrument are
[00:26:08.430]you know always from this place and it's like music doesn't work that way
[00:26:12.310]in my experience right like so many
[00:26:15.470]artists are using so many resources now too
[00:26:19.350]especially with technology like we have access to so many sounds
[00:26:22.950]now and so I think we do ourselves a disservice by
[00:26:26.650]just putting it into boxes so that's why I say like start with what's meaningful
[00:26:31.970]because you're also going to get buy-in from the kids so much faster that way
[00:26:35.490]rather than trying to be like listen listen listen this is this instrument
[00:26:38.830]they're going to be like whatever I don't really care about that like
[00:26:41.570]start with that connection for sure yeah if it's their favorite song they're going
[00:26:45.150]to be like yeah I want to know what this cool sound
[00:26:47.490]makes and it's this cool instrument yeah I think that just seems a lot more
[00:26:51.190]natural and it just makes it easier too I think as a teacher
[00:26:54.730]like thinking about how to incorporate children's backgrounds and their
[00:26:58.730]families and their interests like that just
[00:27:00.530]seems so much more doable and just seems a lot more natural for everyone
[00:27:05.090]yes yeah thanks for sharing that Mollie great advice
[00:27:08.090]one thing that I wanted to end with before we wrap up today is
[00:27:11.970]what are some resources that are available for families
[00:27:14.830]educators and caregivers on this topic of music
[00:27:17.410]this is something near and dear to my heart this is what I did a lot of my
[00:27:21.210]graduate work on is finding these resources for teachers
[00:27:23.950]and so I published a paper a couple of years ago
[00:27:27.670]that has a whole list of hey here are some best practices
[00:27:31.670]for music making for for preschoolers but it could easily be adapted for
[00:27:36.710]younger than preschool if teachers truly feel like either one
[00:27:41.110]i don't have the musical skills to do what y'all are talking
[00:27:44.510]about or I just don't have the time there are
[00:27:48.710]music curricula in a box that you can purchase
[00:27:52.410]that is like ready made ready to go and part of the work I did for this article
[00:27:57.910]was going and finding all of the preschool
[00:28:01.070]and music standards and then reviewing some of these
[00:28:04.670]curricula and then putting it up against those
[00:28:07.170]standards do they meet these standards yeah and so there was a clear winner
[00:28:10.970]kinder music has done a fabulous job
[00:28:14.190]they have parent and child classes that you can go
[00:28:18.090]take but then they also have these ready to go curricula for teachers
[00:28:21.890]where it truly is like turn on I'm sure it was CDs back when I was a
[00:28:27.190]Kindermusick teacher but I'm sure it's I'm sure it's digital now
[00:28:30.050]turn on the MP3 player and we will walk you through everything we sing
[00:28:34.230]all the songs we you know you buy the instruments from them
[00:28:37.910]it's not incredibly budget friendly however it's high quality
[00:28:43.870]it's ready to go that that's the curriculum that i
[00:28:49.170]suggest it meets the most standards from from
[00:28:52.590]what I could tell so the article that's going to be
[00:28:55.130]the my article is going to be linked in the show notes it also has a list of
[00:28:59.210]other websites so we were talking about song selection
[00:29:02.310]and how important that is and keeping things in the right range
[00:29:05.690]i would highly suggest like there are going to be fan favorites among the kids
[00:29:10.790]like frozen tends to be a fan favorite
[00:29:13.550]right but it shouldn't be the song that you
[00:29:17.230]sing it could be that hey we're going to dance to this
[00:29:20.430]or we're going to you know we're going to play our instruments to this
[00:29:23.430]but those kids can't hit what idina is is hitting
[00:29:27.430]most adults can't either and nor should we
[00:29:30.790]and so it's important to to be selective about the songs that you're asking the
[00:29:36.650]kids to sing and so holy names university has a
[00:29:39.490]beautiful library a digital library where you can find
[00:29:43.230]songs specific to the kiddos specific to their
[00:29:46.370]age but all sorts of different topics all of
[00:29:49.170]that is linked in the article there's also a resource from unl and
[00:29:54.150]several other universities called fit and healthy kids there are some music
[00:29:57.650]classes there and one that was created by me with
[00:30:02.130]Ruth Staple kiddos I think Mollie took a big was a big help in that as
[00:30:06.190]well that's currently being uploaded I don't think it's on there as of as of
[00:30:09.410]April 30th, 2025 I don't think it's on there yet but it will be
[00:30:12.910]there soon and I and I try to walk through these
[00:30:15.790]best practices and then I came to Ruth Staples and had kids
[00:30:19.310]around me and it's like hey here's what a lesson
[00:30:21.110]looks like we do a little bit of singing we do a little bit of movement we do a
[00:30:24.330]little bit of instruments and we sing different songs but we sing
[00:30:27.450]them several several several times I'm hopeful that what we've created
[00:30:31.290]together is useful for teachers thanks for sharing those resources well
[00:30:34.850]we've run out of time I'm so sad I could sit and talk to you all for
[00:30:38.630]hours about this topic and I think you could as well
[00:30:42.590]so any final words before we wrap up on our podcast about music
[00:30:48.130]don't don't be afraid your preschoolers aren't great musicians either
[00:30:52.950]you only have to be as good as your preschoolers
[00:30:57.390]and so I believe in you give it a try thanks jenry
[00:31:01.290]Mollie totally they are the most accepting
[00:31:04.710]and nobody is expecting a high quality you're not gonna have singing or
[00:31:10.770]performing judging you
[00:31:12.270]and a good music professor probably wouldn't anyway right that's so true
[00:31:17.450]um so yeah just give it a try yeah give it a shot
[00:31:21.150]and what i'm taking away from our conversation is
[00:31:24.230]have fun do it in a way that feels natural for you
[00:31:27.650]and for the kids that you're working with and connecting and
[00:31:30.750]do it for the sake of music yes joy there should always be joy and not so
[00:31:36.690]much stress yes yeah I think next we're gonna go
[00:31:40.190]maybe outside with the kids and
[00:31:41.950]at ruth staples and hear some of the music they're gonna make
[00:31:44.930]yes let's do it
[00:32:11.630]this has been another episode of The Good Life in Early Life a Nebraska Extension Early
[00:32:19.150]Childhood production with your host Emily Manning for more information on early childhood check out
[00:32:24.130]our website at child.unl.edu if you like the show subscribe and tell your friends to listen
[00:32:29.730]the show production team is Emily Manning, Dr. Holly Hatton, Erin Kampbell, Ingrid Lindal,
[00:32:35.570]Linda Reddish, Kim Wellsandt, Ladonna Worth, and Katie Krause. See you next time and thanks for listening
[00:32:41.830]Bye-bye.
[00:32:42.290]- Bye.
[00:32:43.130]you

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S2E15: Beyond Old MacDonald- Building Joyful Classrooms with Music

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