Hixson-Lied Visiting Artist: Jaque Fragua

Mike Kamm Author

04/14/2025 Added

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Known for this powerful and thought-provoking works, Fragua’s artistic practice encompasses a diverse range of mediums, including studio painting, mural creation, sculpture, installation and public art. He is from the Pueblo of Jemez and grew up in New Mexico. His art often addresses themes of identity, culture, history, and activism, particularly focusing on issues affecting Indigenous communities in the United States. The School of Art, Art History & Design’s Hixson-Lied Visiting Artist & Scholar Lecture Series brings notable artists, scholars and designers to Nebraska each semester to enhance the education of students. The series is presented in collaboration with Sheldon Museum of Art.

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[00:00:00.000]Thank you.
[00:00:05.840]Jake Fragua is from the Pueblo of Jemez and grew up in Southwestern United States.
[00:00:13.780]He is best known for his powerful and thought-provoking paintings and murals of visual resistance.
[00:00:21.680]His public interventions repurpose his culture's iconography, subverting the misappropriation
[00:00:29.480]of Native American design and identity.
[00:00:33.180]His works have been exhibited internationally at the Straat Museum in Amsterdam, Siete Quattro
[00:00:39.780]Siete in Colombia, and the Sol Center in Italy.
[00:00:44.980]Nationally, his work has appeared in exhibitions at the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art,
[00:00:52.160]Chandran Gallery in San Francisco, These Days Gallery in Los Angeles, and the Stanley and
[00:00:58.960]Gerald Rubin Center for Visual Arts in El Paso, among others.
[00:01:04.640]His works are on view here at the Sheldon Museum of Art in the exhibition Exploding
[00:01:10.560]Native Inevitable.
[00:01:12.320]Additionally, he just opened Ghost Writing: A New Mid-Career Survey, and his first solo
[00:01:19.960]museum exhibition at the Plains Art Museum in Fargo, North Dakota.
[00:01:25.480]I highly recommend you make the trip out there.
[00:01:28.440]It is really, really gorgeous.
[00:01:35.040]He is also in a group exhibition called Revitalize at Known Gallery in the Palm Springs area,
[00:01:43.020]which opens tomorrow night.
[00:01:45.360]So it's a very busy time for Jake, and I am very grateful he made time for us today.
[00:01:52.340]So ladies, gentlemen, non-binary pals, Jake Fragois.
[00:01:57.920]How's everybody doing tonight?
[00:02:26.540].
[00:02:27.540].
[00:02:27.540]Thank you.
[00:02:29.540]Thank you for coming out.
[00:02:31.460]First and foremost, I'd like to, you know, recognize the original peoples
[00:02:37.200]of this territory, the Omaha.
[00:02:38.760]I want to be gracious and respectful of my time here and express some gratitude
[00:02:46.480]for the nations that have come before us and are still here.
[00:02:51.240]And that's the reason why I do a lot of my work.
[00:02:57.160]So, what you're just seeing here is a title card for this documentary called Rise that
[00:03:07.240]was produced by Viceland that I had the pleasure of working on.
[00:03:12.040]And you know, I wanted to show this just because this is more or less like the essence of what
[00:03:17.560]I do, which includes painting, other mediums, and hacking
[00:03:26.780]technology to fit the needs of my practice.
[00:03:35.080]And this is the title of my presentation, Outsider Art, or how I got my lore.
[00:03:43.620]And this is a photograph of me taken by a good friend who followed me on some of my
[00:03:48.720]journeys, some of my trips.
[00:03:51.660]I'm really terrible at documenting things, so a lot of this photography is
[00:03:56.400]not mine.
[00:03:59.560]And luckily I have friends who are crazy enough to travel with me and go on adventures and
[00:04:07.160]become accomplices in a lot of these situations.
[00:04:12.240]And my buddy Jonathan's one of them.
[00:04:14.120]He's actually a really great photographer.
[00:04:18.400]He does a lot of work with many street artists in the game, such as Shepard Fairey, who's
[00:04:24.460]also a friend.
[00:04:26.020]So, I just want to give some context, maybe a little bit of a foundation of who I am,
[00:04:34.760]what informs my practice, why I do what I do.
[00:04:40.200]I feel like a lot of times it can be sensationalized, the work that is perceived, whether it's in
[00:04:46.260]the gallery or it's in the street, I think there's a space or a gap that I'd like to
[00:04:55.640]close just to let people know that I'm a real human being.
[00:05:01.600]I come from an origin center or origin point, and that place is called Hualatoa in my language.
[00:05:12.920]It's now known as the Pueblo of Jemez in New Mexico.
[00:05:16.700]It's one of the 19 federally recognized tribes in the state of New Mexico.
[00:05:22.540]There's also a Pueblo called Hopi in Arizona.
[00:05:25.260]We all, at some point, came from the same group of people, which anthropologists know
[00:05:31.980]as the Anasazi or ancestral Puebloan.
[00:05:39.380]A lot of that territory informs my practice and who I am as a person.
[00:05:46.880]I was raised in Jemez, but I have a lot of different tribal relations.
[00:05:54.880]My grandmothers and my grandfathers are from different tribes and surrounding areas.
[00:06:03.380]Hopi, Zia, San Felipe, which has now taken its original name, Kotscha,
[00:06:12.880]which is one of the tribes that I also spent a lot of time at.
[00:06:21.500]That's where my mother's from.
[00:06:24.500]That's my first language, actually.
[00:06:27.500]English is my third language.
[00:06:30.500]So bear with me as I get through this because I'm speaking in a couple layers here.
[00:06:39.500]Jemez Sewer is approximately 90,000 acres of land.
[00:06:43.500]It's a pretty sizable reservation in the state of New Mexico.
[00:06:48.500]It's essentially on the west side of the Rio Grande,
[00:06:54.120]so if you're driving from Albuquerque to Santa Fe,
[00:06:57.120]and you look over to the sunset, you'll see our mountains.
[00:07:00.120]And it's the mountains that Georgia O'Keeffe likes to say that are hers,
[00:07:06.120]but it's actually not.
[00:07:09.120]And so it really is something, that whole conversation in itself.
[00:07:17.120]There's a place called the Valles Caldera.
[00:07:20.120]It's a national park, and it's one of the places
[00:07:23.740]that my tribe has been fighting to get back for a long time,
[00:07:31.740]since the Spanish arrived.
[00:07:34.740]It's gone through many phases of "ownership,"
[00:07:38.740]and most recently it's become in the hands of the United States government.
[00:07:44.740]And we've been in a lawsuit with the U.S. for a long time
[00:07:49.740]to get these ancestral lands back
[00:07:53.360]to the hands of the people.
[00:07:55.360]And it's something that I actively work on as an organizer,
[00:07:58.360]as a community member in my territory.
[00:08:02.360]So these are the roots of my being and my person.
[00:08:10.360]And this is the only photo I could find of myself back home,
[00:08:15.360]and I'm wrestling my buddy Aaron.
[00:08:18.360]He's an Olympic wrestler, so he's about to beat me up there.
[00:08:22.980]Let's see, before art, there was culture.
[00:08:28.980]And this is a statement I like to bring up,
[00:08:32.980]because I think before I understood what Western art was
[00:08:38.980]or what the Western world viewed art as,
[00:08:42.980]I always knew that whatever it is that we were doing
[00:08:46.980]was the way we lived.
[00:08:50.980]It was a life way.
[00:08:52.600]It was not separate from how we exist in community
[00:08:56.600]and how we exist in the world.
[00:08:58.600]It's part of our being.
[00:09:00.600]It's part of our spirit.
[00:09:02.600]And the practice is informing you as a human being.
[00:09:10.600]So whether it's creating pottery or making pottery,
[00:09:15.600]painting murals, textiles, all of this
[00:09:22.220]was to be utilized as a way of honoring and creating connection
[00:09:32.220]with one another and beyond.
[00:09:36.220]So this is what I knew art to be when I was a kid
[00:09:40.220]and when I was growing up on the reservation.
[00:09:44.220]And it was not separate from myself.
[00:09:48.220]And so this is kind of what has been
[00:09:51.840]the foundation for me as an artist to understand
[00:09:54.840]that this is something that I need to do.
[00:09:56.840]There's no compromise.
[00:09:59.840]This is part of my life and there are things in my culture
[00:10:03.840]where I have to step up and I have to take that leadership role
[00:10:09.840]to be a contributor, to be a creative.
[00:10:13.840]And sometimes that includes creating songs,
[00:10:17.840]Pueblo songs, traditional songs.
[00:10:21.460]Sometimes that includes creating adornment for ceremonial purposes
[00:10:27.460]for younger generations and so on and so forth.
[00:10:33.460]So indigenous culture and life is living art.
[00:10:38.460]The perpetuation of native life is an act of resistance in itself.
[00:10:42.460]And as I grew and experienced life, I found this to be
[00:10:51.080]so true.
[00:10:53.080]So, outsider art, what is it?
[00:10:56.080]Outsider art is art made by self-taught individuals
[00:10:59.080]who are untrained and untutored in the traditional arts
[00:11:02.080]with typically little or no contact with the conventions
[00:11:06.080]of the art worlds.
[00:11:09.080]And you can go ahead and read all that.
[00:11:12.080]But yeah, the term which originally is sourced from
[00:11:20.700]John Dubuffet, who's actually a really dope artist,
[00:11:23.700]an artist that I respect, call it art brute.
[00:11:29.700]And I think this is where I started to see where I could fit
[00:11:35.700]as an artist early on before I even knew what art was.
[00:11:42.700]So graffiti ruined/saved my life.
[00:11:50.320]I always like to pay an homage to this part of my life,
[00:11:56.320]which is ongoing.
[00:11:59.320]Excuse me.
[00:12:04.320]Graffiti is also a way of life.
[00:12:08.320]It's a way of presenting yourself.
[00:12:11.320]It's a way of presenting another form of yourself,
[00:12:16.320]a part of you that no one else gets to see.
[00:12:19.940]Maybe sometimes it's just for your own being, too.
[00:12:22.940]It's, you know, a sanctuary.
[00:12:26.940]And that's what I thought it was when I was a kid,
[00:12:29.940]because this is a place where I could be myself.
[00:12:34.940]I could do what I wanted.
[00:12:37.940]I could make whatever I wanted.
[00:12:39.940]I could paint anything and not be judged for it,
[00:12:46.940]because nobody knew it was me.
[00:12:49.560]The anonymity of the whole practice
[00:12:52.560]was something that I really gravitated towards,
[00:12:54.560]and something that I still love,
[00:12:57.560]and something that I've always appreciated
[00:13:01.560]about the culture of graffiti.
[00:13:04.560]And although it has its perks,
[00:13:09.560]it also has its drawbacks,
[00:13:12.560]and definitely felt a lot of that,
[00:13:14.560]whether it be losing friends to graffiti,
[00:13:19.180]or whether it be put behind bars for graffiti,
[00:13:26.180]or ruin relationships.
[00:13:29.180]It's part of the process,
[00:13:33.180]and it's something that gave me some wisdom,
[00:13:40.180]and has allowed me to continue to do my work
[00:13:46.180]in a way that's...
[00:13:48.800]uncompromising.
[00:13:50.800]And it also allows me to still sometimes stay anonymous,
[00:13:54.800]which I love.
[00:13:56.800]I hate being in front of people.
[00:14:01.800]It's one of the things that, you know, I dread,
[00:14:04.800]but it's also this practice that I've created for myself,
[00:14:11.800]it's given me so much,
[00:14:14.800]so this is why I like to do these kinds of presentations.
[00:14:18.420]Just because I think this information could be helpful
[00:14:22.420]to at least one person, if not many.
[00:14:26.420]And, you know, shed some light on the art that I make
[00:14:30.420]and put some of the things into context and, you know,
[00:14:34.420]so it's not so much sensationalized anymore,
[00:14:38.420]it's more like a pragmatic thing.
[00:14:48.040]Photo of me in the middle with my buddy Cougar and Hoka.
[00:14:53.040]And this is my time during school, college.
[00:14:57.040]This was about 20 years ago, if you can believe that.
[00:15:01.040]It's, you know, wild.
[00:15:05.040]And I didn't really know if I wanted to be an artist
[00:15:09.040]or what that meant, you know, at that time,
[00:15:12.040]but it was my last resort as far as higher education,
[00:15:14.040]so I decided to apply to the closest school I was living to,
[00:15:17.660]in New Mexico, and I got in.
[00:15:22.660]And studied there for two years at the Institute of American Indian Arts
[00:15:27.660]in Santa Fe, which is a--I hear it's a great school now,
[00:15:32.660]but back at that time, it was--there was a lot of, I think,
[00:15:40.660]just growing pains.
[00:15:43.660]It was a new campus.
[00:15:47.280]Like, just fresh, and there was a lot of wild things
[00:15:54.280]that happened there, you know?
[00:15:57.280]And so I went there for two years, and I learned what I did
[00:16:07.280]not want to do.
[00:16:08.280]I learned enough of the technical things and so on
[00:16:13.280]and so forth.
[00:16:16.900]And I really got a sense of what it meant to be a Native artist
[00:16:21.900]or a Native contemporary artist, and whatever that label was,
[00:16:25.900]I detested it in a way that was because of the market
[00:16:35.900]and the economics around Native art and the exploitation
[00:16:40.900]of our culture and our identity, and essentially,
[00:16:46.520]these artists that were my compatriots were there
[00:16:50.520]to continue the, I don't know what it's called,
[00:16:56.520]the school, the pipeline, you know, Native art economy,
[00:17:00.520]which I think still exists, you know, it's still a thing.
[00:17:06.520]And if you go to Santa Fe or go to New Mexico,
[00:17:09.520]there's other places in the States too,
[00:17:11.520]but from my experience, Santa Fe is a hub for a lot
[00:17:16.140]of this, and you have, you know, even non-natives
[00:17:19.140]making "native art" and selling it as such,
[00:17:23.140]and that's a federal crime, actually.
[00:17:26.140]So, you know, I witnessed a lot of things spending my time
[00:17:30.140]there in Santa Fe, and I just learned what I didn't want
[00:17:34.140]to be and what I didn't want to do if I became an artist.
[00:17:39.140]And I think now it's a...
[00:17:45.760]it's a better school.
[00:17:49.760]But I ended up forging my own path forward and decided
[00:17:54.760]that I could do something different, and I don't know...
[00:18:00.760]I didn't know what that was at the time, but I was still doing
[00:18:04.760]a lot of my graffiti and a lot of outsider art or outdoor work.
[00:18:13.760]So with that,
[00:18:15.380]I like to say go to where you're appreciated.
[00:18:18.380]And for me at the time, it was working with social justice groups,
[00:18:29.380]environmental groups in the Southwest, and I had a lot of friends
[00:18:34.380]and family in these small communities who were doing work
[00:18:39.380]in most of the reservation communities in the Southwest,
[00:18:42.380]whether it was working on campaigns in the Midwest,
[00:18:45.000]campaigns to stop uranium mines or stop the destruction
[00:18:53.500]of certain land bases that were sacred to other tribes.
[00:18:59.500]These were things that I could get behind.
[00:19:02.000]These were movements that I could feel good doing,
[00:19:08.500]and I had the skill set that I had brought with me
[00:19:14.620]from going to school and working outdoors.
[00:19:20.120]And there was a role for me in this space,
[00:19:23.620]so I was able to craft out what I think most people call now
[00:19:29.120]as resistant art techniques.
[00:19:32.120]And so I worked with a lot of different groups
[00:19:35.120]in making the movement sexy, I guess you could say,
[00:19:39.120]you know, bringing a visual to the movement,
[00:19:42.120]giving an identity, a visual identity,
[00:19:44.240]to these different causes.
[00:19:46.240]And I worked really hard on a lot of those campaigns,
[00:19:50.240]and all the way up to freeing Leonard Peltier.
[00:19:53.240]These are campaigns that I've worked on directly.
[00:19:57.240]And so at the time, I didn't know how important this was
[00:20:02.240]going to be to me in my life or in my work,
[00:20:05.240]but it really informed me and literally informed me
[00:20:08.240]about what's happening on the ground
[00:20:10.240]and what's happening--
[00:20:13.860]in specific communities and then some of the unilateral oppression
[00:20:19.860]that's happening also and the struggles that we share
[00:20:23.860]as Native Americans in this country today.
[00:20:27.860]And so hearing these stories, working on these campaigns,
[00:20:32.860]trying to build and organize with the communities
[00:20:36.860]in these respective places, I've learned that there's a voice
[00:20:41.860]that's there.
[00:20:43.480]And I don't know if it's like a spiritual thing,
[00:20:48.480]but there's definitely this consciousness that we all have.
[00:20:54.480]And I was just magnetized by it, and that's where I ended up
[00:20:59.480]for a long time was working in these spaces.
[00:21:02.480]And I still do.
[00:21:04.480]But at that age, I didn't know what I was going to do.
[00:21:08.480]I was riding, hopping trains and doing graffiti and, you know,
[00:21:13.100]trying to find my next place to sleep.
[00:21:17.020]And then I found a space to work and be and share my skills
[00:21:25.720]and be a contributor.
[00:21:27.720]So from that point, I started working as an activist,
[00:21:38.520]as an active organizer.
[00:21:42.720]And working in a lot of different spaces
[00:21:46.880]across the country and even the world.
[00:21:51.180]I won't mention any of those things because I'm in public.
[00:21:56.180]But this is one of them.
[00:21:57.680]You know, I was here for this in the beginning.
[00:22:01.340]And talking about creating a visual identity
[00:22:05.560]for the resistance.
[00:22:06.380]This is what our job was to do there while I was there,
[00:22:09.340]as well as many other things, which, you know,
[00:22:12.340]includes trainings and these kinds of things.
[00:22:16.720]And I didn't know at the time even like how--
[00:22:23.460]oh, you never know when you're in the middle of it
[00:22:25.220]what's gonna happen and how big these ripples are gonna be.
[00:22:28.880]But these are, you know, these things in themself,
[00:22:36.580]the art itself became a sacred object in a way.
[00:22:41.260]It really--
[00:22:41.960]created a bond with all of us and so much so that, you know,
[00:22:49.540]people were trying to steal, like, the art at these rallies,
[00:22:54.000]you know, at these demonstrations along the pipeline.
[00:22:57.460]And if it weren't for that, I think that the message gets lost,
[00:23:06.260]the idea and the context.
[00:23:11.580]The context gets blown out of proportion.
[00:23:14.540]And we always said during our trainings,
[00:23:19.920]if you're not narrating, if you're not telling the story
[00:23:24.540]or your story, then someone else will.
[00:23:27.340]So it's better to be in the position of telling your story
[00:23:30.420]and telling it how you want to tell it,
[00:23:34.880]and saying what you want to say directly from the people.
[00:23:39.620]So a big part of my time
[00:23:41.200]doing this work was giving people the tools to do that,
[00:23:44.660]and giving the people access and giving them information
[00:23:50.660]to be able to learn how to do this on your own,
[00:23:53.700]and leaving these skills in the hands of the community,
[00:23:56.860]and, you know, not taking more than I gave.
[00:24:05.080]And so this became a really big part of my understanding
[00:24:10.820]as a creative, as a creator, was
[00:24:14.020]that it's about contribution, and it's about, yeah,
[00:24:19.060]leaving more than you take.
[00:24:21.980]And this is something that my modus operandi
[00:24:26.020]that I've had for a long time as a creative.
[00:24:29.320]So the beginning of the rest of my life,
[00:24:37.580]you know, I was living it itinerantly out of a bag,
[00:24:40.440]and my car, you know, hopping trains, like I said,
[00:24:43.180]and living on the street for much of my 20s.
[00:24:46.540]Getting into trouble, getting into and out of trouble,
[00:24:52.200]and mostly for graffiti.
[00:24:54.520]And eventually, I was offered work to show my...
[00:24:59.260]I was offered a show to exhibit my work, my paintings,
[00:25:07.880]and some of my sculptures in a gallery
[00:25:10.060]called 516 in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
[00:25:14.400]And I can't remember how this happened.
[00:25:18.840]I think it was just like an email, right?
[00:25:20.760]Come to the Shelton. Come to the gallery.
[00:25:24.060]Something like that.
[00:25:26.780]And I was obviously flabbergasted.
[00:25:28.960]And the show was very impactful.
[00:25:37.320]Just the proposition of it,
[00:25:39.680]and they're really selling me on it.
[00:25:42.600]They're like, you know,
[00:25:43.260]Shepard Fairey's going to be in the show,
[00:25:44.840]like Chaz Bajorquez,
[00:25:45.920]like all these graffiti heroes, apparently.
[00:25:49.860]And I'm like, yeah, that's cool.
[00:25:53.000]I'll work on it.
[00:25:54.360]Ended up getting thrown in jail for graffiti
[00:25:57.840]in a high-speed car chase.
[00:26:00.000]And I was in there for a few weeks,
[00:26:03.400]and then I got out, and I forgot what day it was.
[00:26:06.520]And I got a hitchhike
[00:26:09.300]from the jail back into town.
[00:26:13.300]This old Navajo lady picked me up
[00:26:15.140]on the side of the road,
[00:26:15.980]which was very serendipitous.
[00:26:17.300]And I just sat in the bed of the truck
[00:26:21.880]all the way there, looking at the sky,
[00:26:23.940]thinking about, when's this show happening?
[00:26:27.700]And get downtown, I walk to the gallery,
[00:26:31.780]they're like, you know,
[00:26:33.720]where the hell have you been?
[00:26:34.900]I'm like, I've been in jail.
[00:26:38.920]The show opens in two days, and where's your work?
[00:26:43.040]I'll be right back.
[00:26:46.940]I ran to my apartment, which still had the groceries that I bought
[00:26:52.720]the day before I got arrested, sitting on the counter.
[00:26:55.900]It's all old and destroyed.
[00:26:58.780]Grabbed all my paintings and ran back into town and set the show up.
[00:27:05.220]And this was the turning point in my quote-unquote career.
[00:27:10.040]At that time, it made me realize how serious I need to be taking my opportunities
[00:27:21.700]and how serious it could get.
[00:27:25.060]As if going to jail isn't serious enough.
[00:27:28.780]But the actual opportunity to...
[00:27:35.380]uplift myself and uplift my work and my practice
[00:27:41.000]was...
[00:27:43.740]I wasn't necessarily ready for that.
[00:27:48.580]I wasn't prepared for that, I think, mentally.
[00:27:50.940]And I kind of feel like that even today sometimes.
[00:27:54.720]But then the reality sunk in.
[00:28:00.180]It's like, okay, we're going to do this.
[00:28:02.200]We're going to take this shit seriously.
[00:28:04.120]And...
[00:28:04.720]And we're going to make something of it.
[00:28:07.340]I don't know what it's going to be.
[00:28:08.380]I don't have a vision of it right now.
[00:28:10.740]But I'm just going to be working.
[00:28:14.280]And hopefully that inspiration finds me working.
[00:28:16.420]And so that's kind of like the start of all of this.
[00:28:20.520]And this is a mural I did there for that exhibition.
[00:28:24.440]It's a collaboration with a hero of mine.
[00:28:28.340]His name is Chris Stang.
[00:28:29.460]An amazing stencil graffiti writer.
[00:28:33.320]Based on...
[00:28:34.580]Based out of, I believe it's Philadelphia or Boston.
[00:28:38.100]I can't remember.
[00:28:39.040]But yeah, I had seen his work in magazines back in that time
[00:28:49.840]before there was any social media.
[00:28:51.640]This was like juxtaposed in other types of media
[00:28:56.540]that you could find underground graffiti and underground art.
[00:29:02.060]And I'd seen his work.
[00:29:04.440]I'd seen his work when I was in high school,
[00:29:06.600]and it really stuck with me.
[00:29:08.360]So the fact that he was able to be a part of this show
[00:29:13.280]and let alone collaborate with me was insane.
[00:29:16.240]You know, it was like this weird clairvoyance
[00:29:24.700]or meant-to-be kind of moments.
[00:29:27.420]And we hit it off and became really good friends.
[00:29:32.900]And we still talk.
[00:29:34.300]We still talk to this day.
[00:29:35.180]And, yeah, it was just like this really insane moment in my life.
[00:29:43.900]And I think I just took that as a sign, like, yeah,
[00:29:46.980]this is what you're supposed to be doing.
[00:29:48.200]This is what you're meant to be.
[00:29:49.520]This is where you're meant to be.
[00:29:51.920]And so I was busy doing a lot of graffiti, a lot of art,
[00:30:01.240]a lot of mural stuff, and kind of like jumping back
[00:30:04.160]between, you know, the fine art space and the mural space,
[00:30:08.920]the public art space.
[00:30:10.200]I got a gig with some of my other graffiti friends
[00:30:15.820]teaching muralism to some students in Santa Fe one summer.
[00:30:22.460]And from that, that's kind of where it took off, you know.
[00:30:26.080]It's like, oh, I can make a living doing this.
[00:30:28.400]I just got a check from, you know, the city of Santa Fe for doing
[00:30:34.020]graffiti, that's cool, you know.
[00:30:36.120]And teaching kids how to use spray paint, that's kind of wild, you know.
[00:30:40.620]So I think that's when I knew I could support myself and, you know,
[00:30:50.320]not just survive from this practice, but also, you know,
[00:30:57.600]contribute to the practice via these new resources.
[00:31:03.880]Yeah, I spent a lot of time doing public art programs,
[00:31:08.000]writing grants and proposals and learning how to, you know,
[00:31:14.300]enter into the nonprofit space there,
[00:31:17.280]because I did have experience doing that with the climate justice nonprofits.
[00:31:24.460]And I just kind of switched gears and started doing it for art and, you know,
[00:31:29.300]looking at the funds that a lot of communities had,
[00:31:33.740]to spend on public art and figured, you know,
[00:31:38.060]just send in proposals and RFQs and these kinds of things.
[00:31:43.100]And eventually started translating into more projects and opportunities.
[00:31:49.840]And this is a photo of me working both in the gallery and in the street,
[00:31:55.160]probably about the same time.
[00:31:57.720]And this image here on the left is this,
[00:32:03.600]this gallery called New Image Art in Hollywood, in West Hollywood.
[00:32:08.640]And yeah, they just reached out and somehow learned about my practice
[00:32:17.320]and learned about what I was doing.
[00:32:19.740]Oh, I remember now.
[00:32:22.640]It's from a show that I did in San Francisco at another gallery.
[00:32:26.840]So just building upon work and,
[00:32:33.460]trying to stay busy and being in the studio or being in the street and being
[00:32:38.800]active and just being tenacious,
[00:32:41.760]something that I learned to do and I wouldn't take no for an answer.
[00:32:46.160]You know, I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet and continue to do
[00:32:53.260]what I love.
[00:32:53.740]So eventually that caught up and,
[00:32:58.200]you know,
[00:32:58.460]people started kind of recognizing me for the work that I did.
[00:33:03.320]And,
[00:33:04.800]you know,
[00:33:06.520]there's like this sort of like this struggle,
[00:33:11.400]I think,
[00:33:11.740]with a lot of graffiti folks who,
[00:33:14.760]you know,
[00:33:15.560]are trying to break into the fine art world or who are trying to balance the
[00:33:21.780]street stuff with the canvas stuff.
[00:33:25.080]And so there's a lot of also,
[00:33:29.580]you know,
[00:33:33.180]the word uh people really judge it you know people really look down upon it if you're doing both
[00:33:39.980]i think it's more so um uh i don't want to say it but i think it's just more like um an envy
[00:33:50.380]situation where you know people want to do both but they can't you know they're kind of stuck in
[00:33:55.300]one or the other um but you can you know you can do you can do a lot of things you know so this was
[00:34:04.540]like the time where i started deciding like oh there's there's more than just this there's
[00:34:10.800]performance art there's um poetry there's uh music obviously like there's all these other
[00:34:18.620]mediums that exist and you know who's anybody to say like you're
[00:34:25.020]stuck in this category or you're you're a street artist or you're a graffiti writer or you're
[00:34:31.620]you know a native american artist and i just you know hated being identified by anybody
[00:34:39.860]or anything like who's who's gonna say who i am i i get to decide and i get to you know
[00:34:48.280]make the point prove people wrong if i need to and so
[00:34:54.740]so i had my uh you know a lot of irons in the fire so to speak
[00:35:06.360]it's not what you say but how you say it and i like to think this is an old indian proverb
[00:35:12.340]um and so with that i think it falls um it ties into what i was just mentioning about
[00:35:21.640]mediums and um
[00:35:24.460]expression communication and it's all language right
[00:35:31.340]art's a language and it's it's one of the most powerful languages that we have in this
[00:35:37.560]reality
[00:35:40.560]you know we could all speak english but i think you probably understand me more if you
[00:35:46.540]just went to the gallery and looked at the art
[00:35:51.040]so the non-verbal you know
[00:35:54.180]language essentially
[00:35:57.940]and and you know with whatever i was trying to express at the time
[00:36:03.660]i thought that it can't be the way everybody else speaks because i'm not everybody else
[00:36:10.140]i'm different i'm
[00:36:13.800]you know i'm not from where a lot of these people are i'm from hamas i'm from the rez
[00:36:18.400]i'm from a little tiny you know community in
[00:36:23.900]the middle of the desert like i you know i'm not from new york you know riding on subway
[00:36:29.700]trains but i but i'm riding on trains here in the desert you know i'm painting billboards
[00:36:36.840]and i think that's that's something that really resonated with me hearing this before is i
[00:36:47.180]could i could say and paint whatever i wanted as long as i knew how to say it and the way
[00:36:53.620]i wanted to say it was very loud and very bold and very abrasive and in your face so
[00:37:00.980]when you saw it you couldn't deny it and this is my voice you know this is sometimes our
[00:37:07.380]collective voice you know these are things that us natives will be talking about but
[00:37:12.820]you know behind closed doors and you know for me like i i think i come from a family
[00:37:19.080]of people who have always been like pretty outspoken
[00:37:23.340]but i didn't know how i was going to do that i was um actually uh i had a lot to say i had
[00:37:33.180]a lot of things on the inside that i wanted to project and and translate and communicate to the
[00:37:38.720]world but i didn't i didn't have that tool yet and when i became an artist and i realized oh
[00:37:46.080]there's the tool there it is you know i might not shout with my voice but i can shout with
[00:37:53.060]my my brush and this became you know very apparent and very real for me obviously
[00:38:00.980]it became a pure expression and you know from this point then i realized the intention of what
[00:38:10.900]i was doing and it's not that i was just mark making it was not that i was just being rambunctious
[00:38:16.480]and rebellious and anti it was there's a there's a story to be told and
[00:38:22.780]And no one's telling you.
[00:38:26.280]doing something that's based on economy or based on the commercialization of our identity.
[00:38:33.410]Everybody's doing something that's for others and not necessarily for themselves and in
[00:38:41.050]a way that was like non-regenerative or unsustainable, you know.
[00:38:51.950]And I thought, well there's all this stuff happening in my community, there's all this
[00:38:56.710]stuff happening in my reservation, in a lot of our reservations here in this country,
[00:39:03.550]but none of the art's speaking to that.
[00:39:05.830]And this was, you know, 20 years ago and, you know, I thought there needs to be something
[00:39:15.250]like that happening, I don't know how to do that or what it is, but I think just, you
[00:39:21.930]know, like in the beginning of this presentation I was saying identity is resistance in itself.
[00:39:27.490]Being here right now is a pure expression of that resistance, you know, of our ancestral
[00:39:35.630]tenacity to continue to exist and be who we are without anybody telling us any different.
[00:39:42.330]You know, we've fought for our freedom of religion up until the 70s, you know, and finally
[00:39:49.270]we got recognition.
[00:39:51.910]We practiced our ways again, you know, without it being illegal, you know, and this is part
[00:39:58.590]of the ties into this idea of ghost writing or where, you know, I took the inspiration
[00:40:06.190]from the ghost dance, which was outlawed in the late 1800s.
[00:40:11.510]And if you want to know more about that, you can always Google it.
[00:40:14.610]But this ultimately culminated in, you know, the massacre at Wounded Knee and changed,
[00:40:21.890]you know, policy, you know, forever essentially.
[00:40:24.310]And then, yeah, finally we got our, almost a hundred years later, we got our right to
[00:40:30.970]pray again.
[00:40:33.250]And so these are things that I like to think about, you know, and these are things that
[00:40:39.050]come across my conscience when I'm, you know, especially when I'm back home, but also when
[00:40:46.950]I'm outside of home too, and I see the freedoms and, you know, the nice things and the privilege
[00:40:51.870]that people have elsewhere, and it's like, yeah, why can't we have that, you know, why don't we
[00:40:57.890]have that, why are we not there yet, you know, well, there's a lot of healing to do, you know,
[00:41:02.810]there's a lot of teaching, and there's a lot of expression that needs to be made, you know,
[00:41:10.290]this is like therapy, right, so for this practice, my intention was to tell that story, you know,
[00:41:21.850]I'm tired of other people telling it for me, I wanted to be somebody who told it,
[00:41:26.170]and with the knowledge that I had, and the, you know, the community support,
[00:41:33.750]and the people around me, I knew that I could be somebody who could tell these kinds of stories
[00:41:38.910]through the art, and not just stories of the past, but present moment stories, you know,
[00:41:51.830]opposing uranium mines, or copper mines, you know, these are all things that I worked on.
[00:41:56.850]During this, the first slide, that was, you know, part of the episode talking about the struggle
[00:42:05.690]at Oak Flat, which is San Carlos Apache in Arizona, and it's a movement that I've, you know,
[00:42:13.830]uplifted a lot throughout my artwork, and have spent a lot of time with those community members
[00:42:21.810]on bringing attention to just how wrong the government treats Native Americans,
[00:42:31.330]even to this day, and, you know, it's still happening right now, so, you know, the intention,
[00:42:40.590]I found that pretty easily in the storytelling, that came pretty naturally, and then, you know,
[00:42:48.270]the modalities of that, which was like, yeah, graffiti,
[00:42:51.790]painting on billboards, public intervention, is what I call it,
[00:42:56.150]painting, you know, legit murals with beautiful, you know, images, it doesn't always have to be raw,
[00:43:04.530]and art brute, it can be, you know, pretty, and aesthetically pleasing, so, kind of, like,
[00:43:14.590]balancing between all these different extremes of creativity, and then, it takes action, right, like, you have to,
[00:43:21.770]practice, you have to be there, you have to be present, you know, I always say, it takes, you know, 90,
[00:43:27.950]it's 90% of it, it's just showing up, you know, the rest is, you know, actually doing the thing,
[00:43:35.610]but you really have to get off your ass, and, you know, make some shit happen, if you want to do
[00:43:44.110]this as an artist, you know, for me, it's like, that's, that's how I believe, excuse my French,
[00:43:51.750]and then, yeah, execution, you know, being able to, to make it happen.
[00:43:57.350]Art as ritual, and also ceremony, it's praxis, it's action, it's, it's, like I said,
[00:44:09.810]showing up and being there, being there to witness the spectacle, and that spectacle is
[00:44:15.550]whatever you're making, whatever you're being a part of, and this is actually, at the
[00:44:21.730]show in Italy where I did a performance piece that I did a, I call it a gunpowder sandpainting,
[00:44:32.930]and it's a four-directional motif that I have going on here, and I couldn't, so Europe
[00:44:40.910]has a really big ban on guns and ammo and any, any of that sort of material, so I had
[00:44:49.390]to make my own gunpowder when I got there.
[00:44:51.710]Luckily, it didn't explode in my face, but that's what's the material in the center there
[00:45:00.210]that's on fire, so it created this movement and pattern that, you know, the audience was
[00:45:06.790]able to witness, and I think it's very important to point out that, you know, art can be a
[00:45:15.130]ritual just as like you waking up to get coffee every day and start your morning, you know,
[00:45:21.690]to me it's as important as that, or more important, excuse me, I just stopped drinking coffee,
[00:45:27.150]so having withdrawals as we speak, but yes, art is ritual, I think, you know, people start
[00:45:36.470]treating it as such, it elevates and it becomes more of an essential part of life, and so
[00:45:48.730]with that, I just wanted to show a few slides of...
[00:45:51.670]some past work, some ancient past, as some of the folks might say here, but yeah, this
[00:46:01.590]is a mural here that's based on textile designs from the southwest, from many different places,
[00:46:08.330]and that's in, well, it was in Colorado Springs, it lived a good five years, I think, and that
[00:46:16.650]building got demolished for something else, probably like a Meow Wolf or something, I
[00:46:21.650]don't know. Then Indian Pond Sold, here, that's a moniker and a very, like, ubiquitous sign
[00:46:32.850]that you'll see in a lot of the southwest, and, you know, it's a tongue-in-cheek kind
[00:46:36.790]of thing that I'm playing with on that print there. There's some graffiti, Stop the Gold,
[00:46:42.310]on our caboose in New Mexico. Neon glass sculpture that I made.
[00:46:51.630]And some sign painting. So I just wanted to show the breadth of some of the things that
[00:46:59.050]I've been involved in. And, you know, like I was saying, a lot of iron's in the fire.
[00:47:04.770]It's like, you know, living as an artist is not an easy thing, and you've got to make
[00:47:10.610]opportunities happen where they might not usually be. And sometimes, like, yeah, I've
[00:47:14.530]been a sign painter. You know, I've been making neons. I've done murals. I've done printmaking.
[00:47:21.610]I've done sculpture, graphics, graphic design. This is, like, what I went to school for,
[00:47:28.670]you know? I've been creating, you know, fun stuff like this. And, you know, I try not
[00:47:36.930]to use machines as much as possible, but, you know, sometimes you've got to bite the
[00:47:42.290]bullet, and sometimes it works out really well. And that's actually NFT, the last slide
[00:47:47.790]I was showing here. That's actually on the Ethereum blockchain.
[00:47:51.590]So, I made my stamp there. We'll see how long that lasts. And then sometimes it's installation,
[00:48:00.630]sometimes it's sculptural, you know, and this is actually a peek at the Plains Art Museum
[00:48:07.310]exhibition. It's just one space here. There's like a couple different other things happening
[00:48:12.590]in that museum. So, I think we have about over 40 works in this one show. It's, you
[00:48:21.570]know, essentially, you know, my largest show to date. And, yeah, Tyvek Teepee. There's
[00:48:29.830]sound, a sound design installation inside the teepee. So, there's a directional speaker
[00:48:35.670]and you can't really hear it outside the teepee, but when you go in, you hear it. So, yeah,
[00:48:40.570]you know, creating a lot of different opportunities for creativity and art to exist. Just getting
[00:48:51.550]to know what street art is or what graffiti is or what a Native American artist is supposed
[00:48:55.690]to look like or how they're supposed to sound or dance or whatever. So, trying to break
[00:49:03.830]a lot of notions about the perception, the romanticization of artists and Native artists
[00:49:12.430]in general. These are some more recent works that I've done. This was actually shown
[00:49:21.530]at the Strat in Amsterdam, where I have a permanent piece that lives there. It's probably
[00:49:29.290]going to live there for a long time. They're trying to turn it into a UNESCO heritage site.
[00:49:33.770]So alongside with a lot of the other graffiti, you know, my inspiration. So it was a really
[00:49:44.650]amazing opportunity. Landlord, that's kind of straightforward.
[00:49:51.510]This is sort of, I think this piece is called Blood Quantum, and it's, you know,
[00:50:01.830]the divisive way that a lot of tribal governments quantify your Indian percentage,
[00:50:10.910]your certificate of Indian blood. And it's more or less how people divvy up per capita,
[00:50:21.490]and things like this. Funding that comes from economic development, like casinos,
[00:50:28.210]and smoke shops, things like this. But it's, yeah, it's a commentary on, you know,
[00:50:37.210]how can you be half of anything, you know? This is also a fabric piece that I've worked on. The
[00:50:51.470]globe with the infamous "Don't tread on me" flag. I like to work with textiles as well. I like to
[00:51:01.070]sew, believe it or not. Some of my favorite pastimes. And a skill that I've learned doing
[00:51:09.590]a lot of direct action events. Sewn a lot of banners together, a lot of ripstop that
[00:51:21.450]usually hangs over 20 stories. I like to dabble in a lot of different things. This is my most
[00:51:30.650]recent mural in Palm Springs. This is actually part of that show you were mentioning, Revitalize.
[00:51:36.970]There's, I believe, maybe eight or nine other artists involved in the show. The opening
[00:51:44.150]for the fine art piece of the project is tomorrow night. This is the most recent.
[00:51:51.430]This is the mural that I've done. It was an interesting situation there, but I ended
[00:52:02.250]up finding a wall again. This is a design based on Cahuilla basket designs and also
[00:52:11.410]Jemez pottery designs. The Cahuilla territory is where this mural lives, so obviously I'm
[00:52:21.410]trying to create something that was familiar and that made folks feel at home and made
[00:52:29.110]people understand that this is where they're at. If they've never seen it before, then
[00:52:34.670]now you know. I think that's also a big part of my practice is bringing that voice to the
[00:52:51.390]audience here at the Shelton. I want to show people that we're not a thing in the past.
[00:52:58.050]We're evolving. We're growing. We're beyond surviving. The art is a part of it. The art
[00:53:07.850]is an important part of that process. It gives us the ability to reflect and look at ourselves
[00:53:14.730]and determine if this is what we want to be or where we want to go.
[00:53:21.370]We can always change it. It's an ever-changing situation. How do we adapt? How do we connect?
[00:53:36.410]How do we grow from the experiences that we've had, whether good or bad? That's essentially
[00:53:48.810]a lot of the public art that I do.
[00:53:51.350]This is, I don't know if you know of another artist, Nicholas Gallinan. He's a buddy of
[00:54:01.630]mine. We were in Miami in December, and he had this installation here. I can't remember
[00:54:10.350]the name of it. We ran into each other, and he's like, "Hey, you should go tag the installation."
[00:54:21.330]The night before, and it's Miami Art Basel week, so the drinks are flowing, and the people
[00:54:32.590]are dancing, and it's just like a party. We can barely hear each other over all the noise.
[00:54:38.210]He's like, "Hey, you should do this." I'm like, "Oh, okay." I go back the next day,
[00:54:44.750]and he's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "You told me to do this." He's like,
[00:54:51.310]"Okay, yeah, I like it. I like it." We had a little conversation on what to do, which
[00:55:00.430]was just spray paint it however I wanted to. This was a message for a lot of people
[00:55:07.830]and for a very impeccable time. I think we made a super impact with this whole collaboration
[00:55:17.190]that we came up with. Collaboration is very important.
[00:55:21.290]I think a lot of our Native artistry, it's something that, like I was saying, shows people
[00:55:30.850]the possibilities. You don't just have to be working as a beater or working as a ceramicist.
[00:55:37.990]You can work with someone else and do some really amazing things as part of that collaboration.
[00:55:45.350]Part of it is just communicating, reaching out, asking questions.
[00:55:51.270]Creating a rapport and building trust.
[00:55:58.270]And I think that's part of the healing process as far as the journey of an artist and allowing
[00:56:11.910]other folks to be a part of that healing. And with that, I just want to say art is the
[00:56:21.250]last stand. I was here last night listening to the lecture about the humanities and how
[00:56:28.430]things are being defunded and so on and so forth. And I feel like we're already past
[00:56:36.190]that. Everything is being revoked right now as far as ethnic studies and even citizenship.
[00:56:51.230]So if this is all on the table, then what's the last stand? I think it's art. I think it's very
[00:56:57.230]important for artists to understand that. It's, you know, no time to not be confident. It's time
[00:57:04.130]to be bold. It's time to be relevant. It's time to be, you know, face forward with everything
[00:57:11.890]that you're going through, you know, speaking truth to power. And you can do that through
[00:57:18.130]what you make, what you create with your hands.
[00:57:21.210]Um, and so with that, um, I have a few, a few things to highlight. I think the biggest
[00:57:36.310]thing is to follow your gut, whatever that feeling might be. It's, it's one of the most
[00:57:41.810]important feelings that I've ever had, um, in a lot of different situations as artists.
[00:57:46.270]So whether it's your last stroke on your painting or, you know, an opportunity to
[00:57:51.190]that arises, you know, follow your gut and, you know, you can use your instincts to make
[00:57:56.330]a lot of great decisions, you know, and make mistakes, you know, make mistakes.
[00:58:01.490]I'm not saying, you know, go out there and do some illegal acts or anything like that.
[00:58:05.510]But I mean, like, you know, be bold, you know, make a bad painting, make a bad sculpture
[00:58:11.450]and like, it's okay.
[00:58:12.310]You know, that's a part of, part of the practice.
[00:58:15.490]Not everything's going to be, you know, a masterpiece.
[00:58:21.170]Not everything is going to be, you know, something that you're quote unquote proud of, but I
[00:58:25.910]think it's an important part of, you know, becoming an artist is, is understanding that
[00:58:31.090]it's okay to make mistakes and it's okay to feel like it's not finished or that it's
[00:58:38.530]a work in progress or that you can just burn, burn it, you know, and things like life goes
[00:58:45.590]on and the thing about it is, yeah, just following it up.
[00:58:51.150]With the growth, you know, the growth of understanding and appreciating the failures and as much
[00:59:00.230]as you appreciate the success.
[00:59:03.610]And become an accomplice, whatever that might mean to you, whether it's in, you know, direct
[00:59:09.790]action or whether it's in, you know, education.
[00:59:16.110]Become an accomplice in the missions that you want to be a part of, you know, don't
[00:59:19.050]just be an ally.
[00:59:21.130]Just sit on the sideline and clap, you know, and like really get, become a part of it,
[00:59:25.610]you know.
[00:59:26.610]It's not that difficult, you know, to engage and get involved, and you know, this is something
[00:59:33.050]I've learned as a community member of my tribe, you know, if I'm not there, who's going to
[00:59:37.930]be there?
[00:59:38.930]You know, no one can take my place, I have to show up, so, you know, it's important to
[00:59:45.310]get involved and engage, and like I was saying earlier, speak truth to power.
[00:59:51.110]You know, like, when you do that, you also speak power in that truth, and that becomes
[01:00:00.330]bigger and bigger and it grows, and then all of a sudden this is like, you know, something
[01:00:05.390]that we all agree on, and it's like something that we all can subscribe to, you know, what's
[01:00:12.410]happening right now, it's like, I don't, you know, I can't subscribe to a lot of what is
[01:00:18.610]happening right now.
[01:00:21.090]Wherewithal to be able to speak my truth to the powers that be, through my art, through
[01:00:28.250]my actions.
[01:00:29.250]And also zoom out, you know, zooming out has always been a great tool for me, getting perspective,
[01:00:36.010]getting that bird's eye view to see, you know, timelines or even just my murals, you know,
[01:00:46.550]you always have to step back.
[01:00:48.330]So you're working on a wall like this all day.
[01:00:51.070]That's all you're seeing and you step back and you're like, "Oh God, what was I doing?"
[01:00:55.570]You got to take some steps back, you know, every so often and make sure that, "Oh yeah,
[01:01:01.810]I'm on par, I'm where I need to be in the map, you know, or in the grid."
[01:01:08.070]That's important, I think.
[01:01:11.250]And then be authentic, be yourself, be as authentic as you can and I think that's sometimes
[01:01:19.410]even more powerful than...
[01:01:21.050]Love, you know, like being authentic is like, to me, that's real love and there's nothing
[01:01:30.290]above that and so for myself, I felt like I've stayed true to myself this whole time
[01:01:37.430]and you know, whether anybody liked it or not, here I am and trust me, there's a lot
[01:01:44.190]of people that didn't like it.
[01:01:47.650]But like I said, I didn't take no for an answer, this is what I'm doing, this is who I am,
[01:01:51.030]and this is, you know, I'll be here, you can try but it's not going to work, I'm here,
[01:02:00.990]still here.
[01:02:05.370]So thanks for listening, thank you for coming out, I really appreciate your time and your
[01:02:13.130]participation as far as active listening, if you have any questions I'd be glad to take
[01:02:21.010]any right now and please check out the beautiful exhibition here, it's a wonderful presentation
[01:02:28.270]of this version of the show, I've seen it two times before and this is my favorite so
[01:02:32.910]far.
[01:02:35.010]So thanks to the Sheldon for making it that amazing and if you can, go to Fargo, check
[01:02:43.890]out the museum show there, I know it's kind of far and cold but it's an amazing undertaking
[01:02:50.990]and I give credit to the museum up there for that.
[01:03:20.970]Thank you for your presentation and talk, could you go back to the Art Basel slide?
[01:03:31.210]Which one?
[01:03:32.210]The Art Basel.
[01:03:33.210]Oh.
[01:03:34.210]Yeah.
[01:03:35.210]Yeah, this one.
[01:03:36.210]Did you graffiti both the foreground and the background or did you just do the
[01:03:41.830]land back?
[01:03:42.830]No, I did the land back piece.
[01:03:45.450]The other text is actually printed online.
[01:03:50.950]Printed on vinyl.
[01:03:53.030]And that was the original creation that was existing there before I showed up.
[01:04:00.390]And it's actually like a font that was designed for that particular installation.
[01:04:07.950]Do you want to speak more to your friend's reaction?
[01:04:12.950]Wait, what's that?
[01:04:14.370]Do you want to speak more on your friend's reaction to your edition?
[01:04:17.930]Well, it was a whole...
[01:04:20.930]thing, like the, you know, mayor of South Beach was called,
[01:04:25.930]the police were called, people got arrested.
[01:04:29.930]I went to a rave and just turned my phone off.
[01:04:33.930]And so the reaction, I didn't know the immediate reaction,
[01:04:37.930]but the next day when I woke up, I turned my phone on,
[01:04:41.930]and it was like this thread of just, like, people yelling at me.
[01:04:46.930]And then by the time it got to, like, the current time stamp,
[01:04:50.910]it was like, "Oh, we love it. It's amazing."
[01:04:53.910]You know? It was like, "Oh, Chase Sapphire,
[01:04:56.910]"the funders of this thing are coming tomorrow.
[01:04:59.910]"We're pissed off 'cause this is what we agreed on."
[01:05:02.910]And it's like, "You asked a graffiti writer to come collaborate.
[01:05:06.910]"Like, what do you think's gonna happen?" You know?
[01:05:09.910]But my friend was, like, really worried,
[01:05:12.910]but then the actual, like, funders and people
[01:05:17.910]who provided the support for this,
[01:05:20.890]he calmed down, so he calmed down.
[01:05:22.890]So I missed, like, the whole, you know, drama
[01:05:25.890]in the 24 hours that passed.
[01:05:28.890]Yeah.
[01:05:32.890]Yeah, and then it became just, like, its own thing, right?
[01:05:38.890]It became, like, it's--it became bigger than what it was,
[01:05:41.890]and I think, you know, he's very grateful for that, and...
[01:05:46.890]Yeah.
[01:05:50.870]Thank you so much for your presentation.
[01:05:55.870]I have so many notes.
[01:05:58.870]I was curious, you talked about--well, throughout your presentation
[01:06:02.870]about collaboration and how much your friend group
[01:06:06.870]had an impact on your life, your career, your art.
[01:06:12.870]I was curious if there's any young people who've noticed you
[01:06:18.870]and have wanted to--
[01:06:20.850]I guess, not the word mentor, but just be alongside you
[01:06:25.850]and grow with you.
[01:06:27.850]And have you seen that kind of full circle moment
[01:06:30.850]happen to you as well?
[01:06:32.850]Sure, yes, definitely.
[01:06:37.850]Well, I guess I'll first mention I have two kids.
[01:06:42.850]I have a daughter and a son.
[01:06:45.850]And I think inherently they just gravitate towards
[01:06:50.830]being a part of whatever it is that I'm doing.
[01:06:53.830]And I was telling a story earlier today about my son
[01:07:00.830]waking me up and the first thing he wants to do is paint.
[01:07:03.830]And just being able to encourage that has changed even my practice.
[01:07:09.830]I'm not lazy anymore. I get up and paint.
[01:07:12.830]I get to do it with my son.
[01:07:14.830]And he's there with the watercolors.
[01:07:16.830]He just turned four, so he's still like,
[01:07:20.810]learning how to mix and use the brush.
[01:07:24.810]But yeah, I mean, just as recent as that.
[01:07:27.810]But maybe as far back as 10 years ago,
[01:07:31.810]meeting other young Native artists or young just artists in general
[01:07:37.810]and brought a lot of folks along with me on big mural projects.
[01:07:43.810]You know, real projects where we're using
[01:07:50.790]lifts and working on huge buildings.
[01:07:54.790]And they get a real check at the end of it.
[01:07:57.790]It's not just like, "Okay, thanks, bye.
[01:08:00.790]Thanks for your hard work."
[01:08:02.790]No, I really believe in paying artists and paying them what I would get
[01:08:08.790]if I was doing this kind of work.
[01:08:10.790]So having been given the opportunity to provide those kinds of opportunities
[01:08:15.790]for younger folks who've never done that or who want to learn
[01:08:20.770]has been pretty awesome, especially when it's other Native creative folks.
[01:08:27.770]And yeah, it's not so much the check or even the skills.
[01:08:32.770]It's just the idea that it's possible, that's, I think, most impactful.
[01:08:40.770]And they might not become artists or continue to do art.
[01:08:43.770]They might go into another field and come up with the Cure to Cancer
[01:08:50.750]or something.
[01:08:52.750]I really think art is an inherent part of all of our lives,
[01:08:56.750]and it's just whether or not we are aware of that.
[01:09:00.750]Any more questions?
[01:09:20.730]Yeah, thanks so much, Jake.
[01:09:23.730]Since we're sitting on a university campus,
[01:09:26.730]and I assume there's academics and students and then the public alike,
[01:09:31.730]how can the academy, universities, people within that sphere support the art
[01:09:38.730]that you do or Native art or Native sovereignty?
[01:09:42.730]What's your take on that?
[01:09:45.730]Well, if you haven't been defunded,
[01:09:50.710]I think creating not only programs and initiatives that recognize Native culture
[01:10:00.710]and Native art in general, which I think Sheldon's doing pretty well
[01:10:04.710]with the museum here, I also think it's like things like this,
[01:10:14.710]real conversations, real engagement, being face-to-face and talking
[01:10:20.690]with, speaking with living, breathing people.
[01:10:25.690]And it doesn't always have to be this, you know, presentation situation.
[01:10:29.690]It could be like a round circle or, you know, building community really
[01:10:34.690]is where it starts, I think, and giving access.
[01:10:39.690]And I know it's free here, but also like, you know, saying it's free
[01:10:43.690]and putting it out there like, hey, we want, you know,
[01:10:46.690]more Native students or we want more Native communities
[01:10:50.670]or community members to show up for these events.
[01:10:53.670]And I think that's important, you know.
[01:10:56.670]And I think just a lot of folks in the Native community,
[01:11:00.670]they're estranged from institutions, you know.
[01:11:03.670]And, you know, rightfully so.
[01:11:06.670]But I think this is a turning point in our history
[01:11:09.670]where we can start making it okay to enter into these spaces.
[01:11:14.670]And, you know, that's all up to the institution themselves.
[01:11:20.650]Whether it's like, well, we're going to, you know,
[01:11:23.650]pay somebody to do a mural who's, you know, going to do a native mural
[01:11:27.650]or, you know, do a talk or run a powwow.
[01:11:31.650]Like, you know, these are all different ideas
[01:11:34.650]that could easily, you know, happen.
[01:11:38.650]But, yeah, it really just takes the leadership of the folks
[01:11:42.650]in those positions to be able to make those opportunities happen.
[01:11:48.650]And, you know, I think a lot of times
[01:11:50.630]obviously it's connected to economics,
[01:11:53.630]but I think it could definitely happen more and more.
[01:11:59.630]Thanks.
[01:12:01.630]Thank you.
[01:12:10.630]Thank you so much for your talk and for, you know,
[01:12:13.630]for meeting with us and being here at the University of Nebraska.
[01:12:17.630]I think the sacred billboard
[01:12:20.610]is just such a wonderful piece.
[01:12:23.610]It's probably one of the most impactful ones that I've seen
[01:12:26.610]in a long time.
[01:12:27.610]When I first saw it, I didn't know anything about you,
[01:12:30.610]so it's such a pleasure to be able to meet you
[01:12:34.610]and hear a little about you.
[01:12:36.610]I was wondering if there are things you could tell us
[01:12:39.610]about the creation of that, and I'm curious if it's still up.
[01:12:44.610]Sure.
[01:12:45.610]Yeah, it's definitely not up.
[01:12:48.610]Like a lot of my work,
[01:12:50.590]it's pretty ephemeral, you know,
[01:12:52.590]which is why it's so important to document it.
[01:12:55.590]There's a gazillion things that I've done,
[01:12:58.590]but I just haven't taken a picture of it.
[01:13:01.590]Luckily, nowadays we've got smartphones,
[01:13:03.590]so it's pretty easy now.
[01:13:06.590]But yeah, that piece, like a lot of my other pieces,
[01:13:11.590]was created just on the fly, essentially,
[01:13:17.590]and I was driving--that's right on the edge
[01:13:20.570]of the Navajo Reservation in Flagstaff in Arizona.
[01:13:25.570]And I was driving past, and it was up for grabs,
[01:13:31.570]like totally blank, like it looked amazing.
[01:13:35.570]And as a graffiti writer, you always can spot these things
[01:13:40.570]out really easily.
[01:13:41.570]To the untrained eye, it's like, "Oh, what is that?"
[01:13:46.570]But yeah, so I pulled over.
[01:13:49.550]I just already saw it, right?
[01:13:50.550]Like the photograph, the image.
[01:13:52.550]I saw it in my mind before anything had happened.
[01:13:55.570]So it was like that inspiration, like I said, you know,
[01:13:58.550]it finds you sometimes when you least expect it.
[01:14:01.550]And you got to be like ready, you know?
[01:14:05.550]You can't just be sitting around.
[01:14:06.550]You got to be like, you have it in hand, like the paint
[01:14:09.550]and whatever it is that you need.
[01:14:11.550]And I had that when I was driving.
[01:14:14.550]And, you know, I saw it.
[01:14:16.550]I pulled over.
[01:14:20.530]And my girlfriend at the time, she was like yelling at me,
[01:14:23.530]like, what are you doing?
[01:14:25.530]And I said, hold on, I'll be right back.
[01:14:27.530]And I gave her a camera.
[01:14:29.530]I said, hold this and press the button when I ask you to.
[01:14:35.530]And so I ran over there and painted it.
[01:14:39.530]It took like five minutes.
[01:14:41.530]And I ran back.
[01:14:43.530]And, you know, right in the middle of like running back,
[01:14:46.530]she took the photo and, you know,
[01:14:50.510]I set up the frame so you could see like the peaks in the back, right,
[01:14:54.510]which are the San Francisco peaks there in Flagstaff,
[01:14:57.510]which is a contentious space in itself just because it's a sacred mountain
[01:15:03.510]to a lot of the tribes in the region.
[01:15:05.510]And there's been a lot of activism around keeping it protected.
[01:15:11.510]But it's -- there's a place called Snow Bowl up there,
[01:15:17.510]and it's basically desecrating the mountain
[01:15:20.490]with piss snow to create skiing for everybody.
[01:15:25.490]And this has been like a long, hard fight that the Hopi
[01:15:28.490]and the Navajo have been a part of and something I've been a part of
[01:15:31.490]when I used to live in Flagstaff.
[01:15:34.490]And so I just saw all these layers, right, immediately when I seen that canvas,
[01:15:42.490]essentially, you know.
[01:15:44.490]So I saw the blank canvas.
[01:15:46.490]I saw the context, the frame, and like, all right,
[01:15:50.470]this has got to happen this way, you know.
[01:15:53.470]So I went up there and did it, and that was that.
[01:15:56.470]And, yeah, normally it's like I'm very, you know, curious to know why Brad
[01:16:06.470]and Dan chose these images for this exhibition.
[01:16:09.470]And it's like I would have never thought that that would be in a show, right.
[01:16:13.470]It's like, oh, I just took a photo, and that's cool, you know.
[01:16:17.470]Maybe it will do something later or not.
[01:16:20.450]But now it's become one of the most iconic pieces that I've put out.
[01:16:25.450]And it's one of many, and it's one that I got on camera.
[01:16:31.450]Thank you so much. Thank you.
[01:16:44.450]Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming, everyone.
[01:16:48.450]Thank you.
[01:16:48.870]Thank you.

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Hixson-Lied Visiting Artist: Jaque Fragua

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