Not That Kind of Doctor - Being A Public Intellectual

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03/06/2025 Added

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Being A Public Intellectual - Not That Kind of Doctor with Nick Husbye and Guy Trainin www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor

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[00:00:00.000]So, you wanna be a public intellectual,
[00:00:02.760]you wanna be famous,
[00:00:04.710]look at you in your Britney Spears aspirations.
[00:00:07.680]What I love.
[00:00:09.450]So, you might have a research,
[00:00:10.740]you might have a particular perspective,
[00:00:12.960]even a cause that you're passionate about,
[00:00:15.420]but the moment you step outside of the academy,
[00:00:18.450]things are gonna get messy.
[00:00:20.670]Yeah, they do.
[00:00:21.720]And today we're talking about what happens
[00:00:24.210]when scholars go public,
[00:00:25.980]and from our own personal experience potentially,
[00:00:30.060]whether that's writing for major media outlets,
[00:00:32.910]engaging in social platforms, social media and all that fun,
[00:00:37.140]or speaking out on controversial issues.
[00:00:39.780]So, we'll cover the risks, the rewards,
[00:00:42.840]and the best ways to engage
[00:00:45.000]while keeping your job important,
[00:00:48.150]your sanity and your dignity intact.
[00:00:51.450]Even more important,
[00:00:52.650]not the dignity part, but sanity definitely important.
[00:00:55.320]I mean, who has that?
[00:00:56.460]Who has that these days?
[00:00:57.834](Guy laughing)
[00:00:58.667]Because let's be honest, academia really encourages us
[00:01:01.980]to go out there and make an impact.
[00:01:04.230]But it doesn't always provide us with the tools
[00:01:06.960]and ways of thinking about what happens
[00:01:10.080]when you do that and you get a reaction.
[00:01:12.630]Suddenly you are in Twitter fight
[00:01:14.970]or someone you don't know responds to you
[00:01:18.300]and you're starting arguing about something important
[00:01:20.820]or not important,
[00:01:22.170]and you're talking about correlation versus causation
[00:01:26.250]and they're misquoting you, and suddenly
[00:01:29.610]a piece out of an article you wrote gets isolated
[00:01:33.510]and highlighted and everybody's laughing at you or not.
[00:01:38.220]Also, how do you know a rebrand has failed,
[00:01:40.800]when you refer to excess Twitter,
[00:01:43.243](Guy laughing)
[00:01:44.280]failed.
[00:01:45.450]And then we need to talk about the institution
[00:01:47.549]because some universities love public scholars.
[00:01:51.390]It's someone that they can haul out,
[00:01:53.940]put on their website, make a big deal about,
[00:01:57.420]and frame you as a thought leader.
[00:01:59.970]Come here to work with this thought leader.
[00:02:03.420]But the double-edged sword of that is,
[00:02:06.720]the minute you walk into something controversial,
[00:02:09.870]they may drop you and all support may go away.
[00:02:12.300]Something to be aware of.
[00:02:14.760]So, if you're new here,
[00:02:16.350]this is "Not that Kind of Doctor,"
[00:02:18.270]the show where we tackle
[00:02:19.710]the messy realities of academic life
[00:02:23.250]and (chuckles)
[00:02:25.170]we try to provide some practical advice.
[00:02:28.440]And let's be honest, a little bit of venting.
[00:02:31.440]Just a smidge of venting.
[00:02:32.610]Yeah.
[00:02:33.443]Just a bit.
[00:02:34.276]Yeah, a little bit.
[00:02:35.109]Little bit. Big times.
[00:02:36.630]I'm Guy, his Nick.
[00:02:38.760]We are both tenured professors here
[00:02:40.830]at the University of Nebraska.
[00:02:42.660]And we somehow survived the job market,
[00:02:46.290]got and got to keep our job,
[00:02:48.840]despite all the things that happened about along the way.
[00:02:52.560]And what our goal,
[00:02:53.820]is to talk about some of our mistakes
[00:02:57.030]and some of our successes
[00:02:58.140]and help you try to avoid the mistakes
[00:03:00.390]and maybe, get some successes along the way.
[00:03:03.900]We're hoping.
[00:03:04.740]So, whether you're trying to reach policy makers
[00:03:07.470]or the general public,
[00:03:09.210]or just get your work noticed beyond
[00:03:11.910]the usual academic paywall,
[00:03:14.280]knowing how to navigate public engagement
[00:03:16.590]is just as important as knowing your research.
[00:03:20.245](instrumental upbeat music)
[00:03:28.410]So, let's get into it.
[00:03:30.000]Being a public intellectual in 2025 is a challenge.
[00:03:34.620]And what's the upside?
[00:03:36.120]What are the dangers?
[00:03:38.340]And is it actually worth it?
[00:03:40.170]Is that where you want to spend your time?
[00:03:41.880]Yeah.
[00:03:42.713]Let's get into it.
[00:03:43.546]All right.
[00:03:44.379]So, I think the first thing that you always want to do
[00:03:46.530]is be thinking about the real reason you're engaging
[00:03:50.490]as a public intellectual, right?
[00:03:54.270]What is it that you want
[00:03:57.330]this work to do?
[00:03:58.590]Because it is work, right?
[00:04:00.750]It's not just showing up on a TikTok and making a video.
[00:04:05.220]It's scheduling and scripting
[00:04:07.650]and all the things that we do for this show
[00:04:10.680]that if you're going the social media route,
[00:04:13.200]you have to have some strategy and be thoughtful about it.
[00:04:15.150]And sometimes there just isn't time in the day.
[00:04:18.240]Yes, and so thinking about your time
[00:04:21.000]is really, really important.
[00:04:22.110]We've had a number of--
[00:04:23.070]Have we talked about that-- Episodes about time?
[00:04:25.230]Yes, we have. Oh, okay.
[00:04:27.537]And so one of the things I would say right off the bat
[00:04:30.900]is time is a commodity that you need to control.
[00:04:35.460]So, start thinking immediately
[00:04:36.780]about how much time do you want to give it?
[00:04:38.951]Mm-hmm.
[00:04:39.784]And then stay the rest of the time off,
[00:04:42.390]especially social media.
[00:04:44.580]Yes.
[00:04:45.413]So, schedule your time, be thoughtful.
[00:04:48.900]Make sure you have, you are not,
[00:04:51.210]do not do the tweeting or X-ing.
[00:04:54.149](Guy laughing)
[00:04:55.260]I can't,-- That doesn't sound right.
[00:04:56.760]Straight face.
[00:04:57.593]That doesn't sound right.
[00:04:58.860]Or posting on any other social media
[00:05:01.140]in the middle of the night,
[00:05:02.640]that's really bad,
[00:05:04.740]for a variety of reasons, including your mental health.
[00:05:07.530]But really avoid that.
[00:05:09.270]Well, and I think the way
[00:05:10.500]to really avoid that kind of behavior
[00:05:14.160]is to really think through
[00:05:16.470]what is the function of your engagement,
[00:05:19.950]not only with social media, but with newspapers
[00:05:22.830]or--
[00:05:23.670]Mm-hmm.
[00:05:24.750]Newsletters, Substacks, whatever it is.
[00:05:27.750]And there's a couple of different reasons
[00:05:29.490]that you could want to do that.
[00:05:31.320]And maybe part of it is you want your work to matter more.
[00:05:35.400]You want your work to interface with the public
[00:05:39.270]in a way that's not possible
[00:05:41.880]in traditional academic publication.
[00:05:44.430]That's one of the reasons we started this--
[00:05:46.140]Yeah. Was to kind of capture
[00:05:47.820]some of the stuff that we had done
[00:05:50.190]with our grad students over the years.
[00:05:52.350]And then it just kind of exploded from here.
[00:05:55.230]We started from the bottom, now we're here.
[00:05:58.650]It could be that you're burned out
[00:06:00.630]and academia isn't really cutting it.
[00:06:03.120]You think about the publisher perish cycle.
[00:06:05.940]It takes a long time to gather the data
[00:06:08.340]and to process the data and to get the IRB and all of this.
[00:06:11.970]And then reviewers send it back and you're like,
[00:06:14.730]but I want to make an impact now.
[00:06:16.950]And so really engaging
[00:06:19.500]with thoughtful scholarship towards the public
[00:06:23.340]is a great opportunity to energize.
[00:06:26.610]Every time I have a conversation with the public,
[00:06:28.770]I just did a presentation to graduate students,
[00:06:32.460]which is kind of on the borderline
[00:06:33.990]between a public
[00:06:34.860]intellectual-- Mm-hmm.
[00:06:38.880]And an academic,
[00:06:40.710]at a conference, but it was open, and it was full,
[00:06:45.000]and I came out energized.
[00:06:46.770]So, we talked about issues around
[00:06:48.840]what I'm right now working on, which is the AI.
[00:06:51.360]And at the end of that, what is essentially public talk,
[00:06:54.810]not about my research, but just about where we are,
[00:06:57.300]and what we should be thinking about,
[00:06:59.250]I had five new ideas about things I should be doing
[00:07:02.520]in my research
[00:07:03.390]to push forward. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:04.223]So, it's a way to energize.
[00:07:05.520]So, if you are feeling a little bit burnt out,
[00:07:07.260]that can actually remind you
[00:07:10.020]that there is impact
[00:07:13.290]in the real world
[00:07:14.123]to some of the ideas we're playing with,
[00:07:16.080]and the data we're collecting and the insights
[00:07:19.380]that we have.
[00:07:20.790]Yeah, know that scope and the temporality of it,
[00:07:23.910]'cause academia can move so slowly.
[00:07:27.360]Yeah. But when you're engaging
[00:07:29.550]in these social media spaces
[00:07:31.140]or in in-person spaces,
[00:07:34.560]it's like peer review in real time.
[00:07:38.910]And there's something exciting about that.
[00:07:40.290]But also you have to be prepared for that.
[00:07:41.567]'Cause it is still peer review.
[00:07:43.290]Yes. You're still gonna
[00:07:44.123]have a reviewer too.
[00:07:45.120]Yes. It's like you
[00:07:46.110]should have designed your study like that, but I didn't.
[00:07:49.829](Guy laughing)
[00:07:50.662]So, what do I do now?
[00:07:52.110]What do you got for me instead of wishing my study
[00:07:54.000]was something that it's not?
[00:07:55.980]Bad peer reviewer, too.
[00:07:57.240]Bad, bad.
[00:07:59.520]So, there's also like this notion of,
[00:08:04.578]and I don't think we talk about this enough, just overall.
[00:08:08.032]Mm-hmm.
[00:08:08.865]But it is perfectly fine.
[00:08:11.190]You wanna be famous?
[00:08:12.420]Yeah.
[00:08:13.350]I wanna support your ambitions--
[00:08:15.930]To be famous.
[00:08:16.830]I wanna support your influence
[00:08:19.800]or your clout. Yeah.
[00:08:20.980]Yeah. You know,
[00:08:22.050]being a clout chaser, I wanna support that.
[00:08:24.000]It's not for me,
[00:08:25.680]but I will support you. Yeah.
[00:08:29.085](Guy laughing)
[00:08:29.918]Yes. In your
[00:08:30.751]clout chasing, right?
[00:08:31.584]Like--
[00:08:32.520]And when you do that,
[00:08:33.630]when you make that decision,
[00:08:35.220]I personally think it's not necessarily a bad decision,
[00:08:37.590]but you have to think about the implications.
[00:08:39.510]Mm-hmm.
[00:08:40.343]The implications, again, I go back to time,
[00:08:42.240]there is an implication for time.
[00:08:43.680]If you're engaging in all of these conversation,
[00:08:46.440]it's going to take time
[00:08:48.090]because you've gotta prepare for all of them.
[00:08:50.100]You gotta be very careful,
[00:08:51.930]because if you are one of those people,
[00:08:53.970]and I'm not right now,
[00:08:55.050]but if you're one of those people that NPR
[00:08:57.090]or another news outlet calls on a regular basis
[00:08:59.640]to make comments about a specific topic,
[00:09:01.950]you have to prepare.
[00:09:03.210]Mm-hmm.
[00:09:04.043]You don't want to be mumbling
[00:09:05.460]or making up things as you go along
[00:09:08.190]because it needs to be short,
[00:09:09.840]it needs to be to the point, they're gonna cut you.
[00:09:11.970]And if you're doing interviews
[00:09:14.010]and we recently did a series of pieces
[00:09:17.880]about some work, we're doing the social media,
[00:09:20.580]the journalist will send it back to you for fact checking.
[00:09:24.900]Mm-hmm. Is this what you said?
[00:09:26.550]Is there anything here you disagree with?
[00:09:28.770]And you need to read that very carefully
[00:09:30.780]because sometimes they will misunderstand.
[00:09:33.930]The transcription isn't great.
[00:09:35.490]There could be other things.
[00:09:36.750]So, you've gotta also take the time
[00:09:38.580]to check it on the backend,
[00:09:40.740]otherwise you lose control over the narrative.
[00:09:43.050]Yes. You need to pull a Beyonce.
[00:09:44.760]Beyonce has a room that is nothing
[00:09:46.560]but all of the media about her and she's got it all indexed.
[00:09:51.840]Well, I'm not sure that she herself.
[00:09:53.622]Yeah, all indexed. She has somebody doing
[00:09:55.350]it for her. But like.
[00:09:56.820]You have to be that level of meticulous.
[00:09:58.980]Yes. Because things happen.
[00:10:01.920]Lucy Coggins, I'm just looking at you for instance, right?
[00:10:07.110]So, you've had,
[00:10:09.060]I actually first encountered you when you were blogging.
[00:10:11.720]Yes. And I was a young
[00:10:13.320]grad student, still didn't have any hair, I was still bald.
[00:10:16.890]But I remember reading your blog--
[00:10:19.410]Yeah.
[00:10:20.243]As a grad student.
[00:10:21.390]And so you have this history of engagement in social media.
[00:10:26.130]And I would love to know
[00:10:28.866]as an academic,
[00:10:31.890]what is your thinking around
[00:10:33.660]how your social media habits have changed
[00:10:35.760]in terms of being a clout chaser?
[00:10:40.565](Guy laughing)
[00:10:42.720]So, I think a few things.
[00:10:44.070]One is that I try to separate my,
[00:10:47.940]or to actually have,
[00:10:50.790]mostly a professional social media.
[00:10:52.980]So, one of the things that I had to decide very early,
[00:10:55.740]and I learned that very, very early,
[00:10:57.180]you do not mix your personal social media
[00:10:59.490]with professional social media.
[00:11:01.110]If you do want to have political arguments
[00:11:03.930]or things that are not about the work you're doing,
[00:11:06.360]you should do it under a different,
[00:11:10.377]in a different channel or somewhere else,
[00:11:12.540]because you don't want those two things really mixing up
[00:11:17.820]because it really takes away from the professionalness
[00:11:20.880]that you're sending
[00:11:21.840]and potentially also taking away from,
[00:11:25.590]any other kind of persona you want to have online.
[00:11:29.250]So, I developed
[00:11:30.570]what is primarily a professional persona online
[00:11:33.720]on most of the outlets.
[00:11:35.370]So, definitely on Twitter,
[00:11:36.450]although I'm not on Twitter anymore.
[00:11:37.920]So, that's one thing that has changed.
[00:11:40.800]But definitely on LinkedIn
[00:11:42.570]or on the variety of other things
[00:11:45.780]that I'm doing right now online,
[00:11:48.150]they're primarily professional.
[00:11:50.640]I keep, for example, Facebook for me,
[00:11:53.220]my main Facebook page with my name, or not page,
[00:11:56.250]but account with my name is my personal one.
[00:11:59.100]And I do only personal things.
[00:12:00.750]I actually avoid all politics at this point on social media
[00:12:04.590]because it's so toxic and also I don't see the benefit.
[00:12:07.320]So, that's separation is one thing that is important.
[00:12:10.830]I track what I'm doing and I think about this in two ways.
[00:12:15.330]And I've gotten better over the years.
[00:12:17.280]So, when I started out,
[00:12:18.600]I tried to be on as many channels as possible.
[00:12:21.930]Mm-hmm.
[00:12:22.763]So, trying to diversify
[00:12:23.970]and see am I capturing different groups at different times.
[00:12:27.300]And since then I've learned that it's just,
[00:12:30.210]again, going back to time,
[00:12:31.500]it's too much time, I don't have that time.
[00:12:33.750]So, I focus on a few main channels
[00:12:36.150]where I know I can understand what's going on
[00:12:39.810]and I can contain it.
[00:12:42.000]So, for example, we're working
[00:12:43.890]with YouTube as the main distribution.
[00:12:46.110]We are redistributing in other ways,
[00:12:48.000]but YouTube is our main distribution.
[00:12:49.560]It's my favorite one.
[00:12:51.120]Dan here knows that I have a big presence there,
[00:12:55.050]because you can maintain it,
[00:12:56.545]you can control it. Huge cloud change, sir.
[00:12:58.440]Yes. Huge.
[00:12:59.580]So, that's one of those things that you can do.
[00:13:02.490]And then you have to be really selective
[00:13:04.590]about what are the other ones.
[00:13:06.480]And my advice is always start with one channel
[00:13:09.660]that you think most of the people you want
[00:13:11.400]to talk to are there.
[00:13:12.450]And then if you're like,
[00:13:13.950]I think there's another market there, try another one.
[00:13:17.670]But be ready to recede.
[00:13:19.890]Mm-hmm. Because social media works
[00:13:22.230]only if you,
[00:13:23.550]it's a machine or it's a monster.
[00:13:25.290]I'm not sure which one, probably both.
[00:13:27.870]But you have to feed it on a regular basis
[00:13:30.420]to have people actually get access to your content.
[00:13:34.650]So, you really want to think about,
[00:13:38.700]what am I willing to commit to and commit slowly,
[00:13:41.490]instead of trying everything, start slowly try to grow
[00:13:45.270]and then realize
[00:13:47.190]where it ends.
[00:13:48.450]For example, when I was blogging,
[00:13:51.330]I was blogging weekly
[00:13:53.550]and I sat down every Sunday morning--
[00:13:56.820]Mm-hmm. For half an hour or so,
[00:13:59.130]for half an hour and just wrote,
[00:14:00.990]and then when I was done, I was done.
[00:14:02.550]That's the beauty of blog is people have low expectations
[00:14:05.700]and I am happy with that.
[00:14:08.400]And it was literally, and I always express them as thoughts
[00:14:13.140]in process while thinking about research.
[00:14:15.960]Here are some observations and things like that.
[00:14:18.120]And that was 12. Well,
[00:14:19.110]that was the thing that drew me to it.
[00:14:19.943]Yes. Actually was,
[00:14:23.310]someone in my doctoral program,
[00:14:24.720]I loved how I got a view into your process.
[00:14:26.640]It just made me happy.
[00:14:27.990]Mm-hmm.
[00:14:30.270]So, let's shift a little and talk about some of the risks
[00:14:33.990]and the realities
[00:14:36.090]of public scholarship.
[00:14:38.580]One of the trickier things--
[00:14:41.843]Mm-hmm. That is out there,
[00:14:44.280]is thinking about, kind of the conflicting nature
[00:14:48.480]of social media and academia.
[00:14:50.340]Because social media loves a hot take.
[00:14:53.130]Yes. They love a controversy.
[00:14:54.960]They love, you know just,
[00:14:59.430]the damn and stronger things.
[00:15:01.200]But academia is more about nuance
[00:15:02.940]and social media is faster.
[00:15:07.620]It's,
[00:15:09.390]not as drawn out,
[00:15:10.740]it's not as thorough. Yeah.
[00:15:12.330]So, you have to be aware of some of those things.
[00:15:16.320]So, and because of that, you're gonna get criticized.
[00:15:19.680]Like criticism is gonna happen.
[00:15:21.360]And quickly.
[00:15:22.260]Very quickly.
[00:15:23.700]Very quickly.
[00:15:24.533]And so do you have,
[00:15:27.150]one, the thick skin to deal with that?
[00:15:29.970]And two, what happens at your institution if that happens?
[00:15:33.870]Like are there policies around that?
[00:15:35.880]You'll wanna check those out.
[00:15:37.896]Right? Definitely check them out.
[00:15:39.420]And really, unfortunately, I would say,
[00:15:42.510]because I would like to stay on the side of more nuance
[00:15:45.810]and not the big splash hot take,
[00:15:50.520]but this is traditionally how people switched over
[00:15:55.320]from being academics to being public intellectuals--
[00:15:58.500]Mm-hmm.
[00:15:59.333]Is by staking huge hot takes.
[00:16:05.190]And climate science is one of those areas,
[00:16:07.590]and that is 99.9% of climate scientists are saying,
[00:16:14.040]global climate change is real.
[00:16:15.750]If you are that 0.1%, you are gonna get a lot of attention.
[00:16:19.740]Mm-hmm. Unproportional attention,
[00:16:21.824]disproportional, sorry, attention.
[00:16:23.910]So, yes, you will get a lot of attention,
[00:16:26.880]you will get a lot of TV time,
[00:16:28.710]but are you willing to stand behind that,
[00:16:31.980]from an intellectual honesty? At what cost?
[00:16:34.230]Well, at what cost?
[00:16:36.510]And also I always start with intellectual honesty.
[00:16:41.190]Do I really believe that?
[00:16:42.540]Or is this just a hot take?
[00:16:43.980]And social media encourages the hot take.
[00:16:46.440]So, you have, again,
[00:16:48.060]this is why planned times on social media,
[00:16:50.910]like Mondays 10 to 10:30-- Mm-hmm.
[00:16:53.580]This is when I'm thinking about what I'm writing,
[00:16:55.830]I'm writing it and I'm sending it out is good.
[00:16:58.380]Midnight on a Wednesday, after you talk till 9:00 PM
[00:17:02.280]that's probably a really bad time
[00:17:04.080]because you're not thinking through,
[00:17:05.790]you are not really considering the implications
[00:17:09.870]and the reaction will be there,
[00:17:11.910]by the time you wake up in the morning.
[00:17:13.530]Mm-hmm. So, you want to avoid
[00:17:14.850]that as much as possible.
[00:17:16.050]Yeah, not a good way to wake up,
[00:17:18.450]which brings us to like trolls are gonna find you, right?
[00:17:21.480]Like there is always gonna be someone who is,
[00:17:25.820]you know? Yes.
[00:17:27.460]Going to be a jerk.
[00:17:29.370]Yeah. Right?
[00:17:30.540]And oftentimes you don't know who these people are.
[00:17:35.010]And quite honestly, should you care?
[00:17:37.890]I don't know.
[00:17:38.723]But you gotta be ready for when that happens.
[00:17:40.710]So, for instance, on this channel,
[00:17:43.560]someone left a lovely comment of like,
[00:17:45.780]when will you like girls?
[00:17:47.730]Dude, I'm aware that I am gay,
[00:17:50.460]also this is not about original material, be original.
[00:17:55.950]Like come up with something that's actually clever.
[00:17:58.710]Come up with something that tickles my brain,
[00:18:00.450]but this is not original.
[00:18:02.430]And just be ready for that kind of stuff.
[00:18:05.220]Because not only
[00:18:06.053]will people tear apart kind-- Yes.
[00:18:07.560]Of your ideas,
[00:18:08.393]but they'll also kind of tear apart who you are.
[00:18:11.010]And you have to be okay with yourself.
[00:18:15.000]And with the fact that somebody
[00:18:16.560]will try to sell Bitcoin in the comments.
[00:18:18.690]Right, and so--
[00:18:19.860]It's just what there is.
[00:18:21.510]So, think through what those parameters are.
[00:18:23.063]Yes. Do you engage, do you not?
[00:18:26.010]What your strategy for that?
[00:18:27.210]Because you know, I mean I could have blocked
[00:18:31.110]that particular message, but I was like, dude,
[00:18:34.260]it's on my to-do list, right?
[00:18:35.310]After liking pineapple on pizza, which is never,
[00:18:39.570]because I don't care.
[00:18:42.660]I don't care.
[00:18:43.530]And I would definitely advise to really talk
[00:18:47.460]to somebody before you get into any kind
[00:18:50.220]of a back and forth--
[00:18:51.960]Mm-hmm. Especially
[00:18:52.793]with trolls of any kind.
[00:18:54.480]Because they're not interested in a discussion
[00:18:56.640]or in you proving yourself wrong.
[00:18:58.320]They are just interested in the act of trolling.
[00:19:01.290]And going back to,
[00:19:03.360]they are rarely people you will identify
[00:19:06.120]or people you will have a discussion
[00:19:07.740]with in any other situation.
[00:19:09.360]Right, so there are people you don't care about.
[00:19:11.010]Yes.
[00:19:11.843]Quite honestly, I don't care about that.
[00:19:13.530]Like, oh, you have an opinion on who I am, shocking.
[00:19:16.680]It's like plaid for a fall.
[00:19:18.960]Oh, my gosh, don't care of.
[00:19:21.420]And so there's actually lovely research
[00:19:24.630]that came out of the, I think UCLA,
[00:19:26.700]about the reaction to the common core standards.
[00:19:29.280]Mm-hmm.
[00:19:30.390]Which is really interesting
[00:19:32.310]because they did an analysis
[00:19:33.720]of who responded and who talked about common core.
[00:19:36.360]And it was very clear that there were influencers
[00:19:39.000]that had no outside of social media persona
[00:19:43.050]that was in any way connected to education.
[00:19:45.570]So, they were not--
[00:19:46.710]Oh, interesting.
[00:19:47.730]They were not researchers,
[00:19:49.800]they were not teachers.
[00:19:50.940]They often were, I mean maybe parents.
[00:19:54.450]Mm-hmm. But that's,
[00:19:56.610]their contact with education.
[00:19:59.160]So, they were fed by misinformation.
[00:20:01.830]They were feeding misinformation,
[00:20:03.510]they were amplifying misinformation,
[00:20:05.250]but none of them were the politicians
[00:20:07.680]or anybody who's actually involved in making policy
[00:20:11.760]or teaching or administering education.
[00:20:15.563]Mm-hmm. So, it was very interesting
[00:20:17.520]to find out that these are not the people
[00:20:20.700]you would usually have a discussion.
[00:20:22.050]It is nice to have discussion--
[00:20:22.883]Mm-hmm. And deliver content
[00:20:25.170]to a wider public but that wider public
[00:20:28.320]has all kinds of people there.
[00:20:29.940]So, you have to keep that in mind.
[00:20:31.440]Yes, that reminds me of one challenge that I faced,
[00:20:34.800]not on this channel but on a separate channel,
[00:20:37.530]has been around reading instruction
[00:20:39.930]and there's all these like reading hacks
[00:20:43.200]that flip around the internet all the time.
[00:20:46.110]Like, yeah, be a faster reader.
[00:20:47.610]Read at the pace at which you're comfortable with people,
[00:20:49.830]like just be reading.
[00:20:52.110]And so I had constructed a short--
[00:20:54.450]Mm-hmm.
[00:20:55.283]Debunking bionic reading, which is where--
[00:20:57.190]Yeah. You know,
[00:20:58.320]every letter gets bolded as you go along
[00:21:00.870]and it's supposed to help you read faster,
[00:21:02.820]but it actually doesn't like.
[00:21:03.810]No. That's actually counter
[00:21:05.130]the research and it was interesting
[00:21:08.190]because it was, it still is on that channel,
[00:21:10.950]my most popular short,
[00:21:13.380]but it was also the channel when I first posted it,
[00:21:15.810]I posted-- With the most
[00:21:17.079]negative response. I posted it late at night.
[00:21:18.540]Yeah.
[00:21:19.373]Well and the negative response was,
[00:21:20.880]where's your citations?
[00:21:23.010]Dude,
[00:21:24.390]that's not a criticism.
[00:21:27.810]I have them.
[00:21:28.784]Yeah. And then I posted them,
[00:21:29.940]would you like to discuss crickets?
[00:21:31.920]Yes.
[00:21:32.753]So--
[00:21:33.600]Yes. Again,
[00:21:34.433]be aware of the trollish behavior.
[00:21:35.266]Yeah. And as an academic online,
[00:21:38.250]you're gonna be held to a different standard,
[00:21:40.200]but the people who are responding to you aren't going to be.
[00:21:43.323]Yeah.
[00:21:44.156]And so now whenever I do something like that,
[00:21:45.390]I just make sure, here are my citations.
[00:21:49.110]Mm-hmm.
[00:21:49.943]What you want?
[00:21:50.882](Guy laughing)
[00:21:51.715]What's going on, how's things?
[00:21:55.004]And I don't hear it anymore.
[00:21:55.980]Yeah.
[00:21:56.813]Which is interesting.
[00:21:57.646]Yes.
[00:21:59.460]So, that's a kind of a hot take,
[00:22:01.410]but it's a hot take you can stand behind.
[00:22:03.720]I mean, it's not a hot take. Certainly.
[00:22:04.920]This is what this is, right?
[00:22:06.600]Like--
[00:22:07.433]Well, but doing something
[00:22:08.760]about a program that is out there,
[00:22:11.280]will always have a hot take attitude
[00:22:13.410]because people have or take on it.
[00:22:15.660]Uh-huh.
[00:22:16.493]Because people have strong opinions, right?
[00:22:17.860]Well, and they'll see it as a personal attack.
[00:22:20.130]Yes. Like--
[00:22:20.970]Yes, on their choices.
[00:22:22.380]It worked for me.
[00:22:23.340]Yes. But you're one person.
[00:22:24.457]Yes. Like you might
[00:22:25.620]be the anomaly.
[00:22:26.453]I'm not actually sure that it worked for you.
[00:22:27.660]I think you think it works for you
[00:22:28.920]and therefore that's why you're saying it works for you.
[00:22:31.200]However--
[00:22:32.340]Yeah.
[00:22:33.173]Read large, here's all the research
[00:22:34.530]that says it doesn't work.
[00:22:37.866]And that's our,
[00:22:38.760]so the thing that I think we're saying
[00:22:41.370]throughout all of this,
[00:22:42.600]is make sure that you're making the points
[00:22:44.640]that you would make as a research,
[00:22:46.200]as somebody who knows what they're doing.
[00:22:47.093]Mm-hmm. And that's why I talk
[00:22:48.960]about that separation, right?
[00:22:50.550]So, when we talk about what are some of the best choices
[00:22:54.000]you can make? Mm-hmm.
[00:22:54.990]One of them is choose what you want to talk about.
[00:22:57.780]Talk about the things you know about.
[00:22:59.610]And you know, because this is your research,
[00:23:01.650]you start going beyond that and you're starting risking,
[00:23:06.360]kind of squandering, the kind of,
[00:23:12.300]credit you have as a public intellectual.
[00:23:15.679]Mm-hmm. You want to talk
[00:23:16.512]about the things you know,
[00:23:17.640]and if that's your research, absolutely talk about it.
[00:23:20.370]If it's research you read once 20 years ago,
[00:23:23.370]it may not be the best thing for you
[00:23:25.290]to talk about right now. No.
[00:23:27.030]And so really being selective, I think about this,
[00:23:31.350]because I've given testimony before the legislature
[00:23:34.110]a few times.
[00:23:34.943]Same. And by the way,
[00:23:36.870]check what your institutional guidelines,
[00:23:40.440]but usually they ask you to do it as a private citizen.
[00:23:43.230]Mm-hmm.
[00:23:44.063]Not as a representative of the institution.
[00:23:45.840]So, make sure you do that.
[00:23:47.910]But when you do that,
[00:23:51.060]I always talk about the things I know as a researcher,
[00:23:55.200]I mean, I have a lot of opinions about other things.
[00:23:57.420]I don't present myself then as a public intellectual.
[00:24:00.450]Just as a citizen. Mm-hmm.
[00:24:02.440]Yeah. Which I can still
[00:24:03.660]have an opinion and I just wrote a couple of things,
[00:24:06.510]just yesterday,
[00:24:08.610]okay, about a couple of laws that are out there.
[00:24:10.680]But again, I don't write it as a professor
[00:24:12.810]at the university, at that moment,
[00:24:14.130]I'm just citizen, Guy saying,
[00:24:16.680]this is what I think
[00:24:17.730]about this. Citizen Guy.
[00:24:18.810]Regular clout chaser.
[00:24:20.220]Yes. Versus Dr. Guy Trainin,
[00:24:22.380]professional clout chaser.
[00:24:24.150]Yes.
[00:24:24.983]I like it. Exactly.
[00:24:26.460]Alright, so what else do we need
[00:24:28.560]to know before you make the decision to kind of jump into.
[00:24:33.390]Well there's a couple of, I wanna touch back on--
[00:24:36.300]Yeah.
[00:24:37.500]Your notion of dividing,
[00:24:38.700]right? Yeah.
[00:24:39.600]So, when you're thinking about wise engagement
[00:24:43.140]as a public intellectual,
[00:24:44.670]knowing your audience is important--
[00:24:46.353]Absolutely. Are you talking
[00:24:47.186]to other academics?
[00:24:48.390]Are you talking to, who is your audience?
[00:24:51.390]Like we have so many discussions about who our audience is,
[00:24:53.970]who would like our audience to be, and,
[00:24:57.780]stick with that.
[00:24:58.740]Yes.
[00:24:59.573]If you're talking to the everyday person,
[00:25:01.740]you have to frame things differently
[00:25:03.870]because you're working on translation,
[00:25:07.020]research into-- Mm-hmm, yes.
[00:25:08.733]Into everyday.
[00:25:09.660]So, like trying to explain kinetic and static reversals.
[00:25:13.020]Yeah,
[00:25:13.853]that's not-- To a mom in Utah,
[00:25:15.630]is a very different thing.
[00:25:17.010]Yes. From talking
[00:25:17.843]about it in research.
[00:25:19.290]And you wanna,
[00:25:21.660]make sure that you are setting those boundaries.
[00:25:23.280]'Cause this is gonna be one more thing
[00:25:24.720]on top of everything else.
[00:25:25.950]Is it valued in your tenure process?
[00:25:28.020]Mm-hmm. What are your institution
[00:25:29.160]policies around it?
[00:25:30.450]Et cetera, et cetera.
[00:25:31.320]But develop a public persona.
[00:25:34.230]Yeah. Right, like,
[00:25:35.130]to go back to Beyonce, who's your Sasha Fierce?
[00:25:38.555](Guy laughing)
[00:25:39.527]You know. Explain.
[00:25:40.887]So, Beyonce's album,
[00:25:42.300]wow, I am diving deep.
[00:25:44.910]Beyonce's album, "I Am... Sasha Fierce."
[00:25:47.100]Yeah. Referenced
[00:25:48.270]her onstage persona.
[00:25:49.980]Mm-hmm. In her real life,
[00:25:51.300]she is Beyonce. Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:53.190]Fabulous, iconic.
[00:25:54.690]Mm-hmm. But onstage stage,
[00:25:55.950]she's Sasha Fierce.
[00:25:57.390]Okay.
[00:25:58.223]Even more fabulous, even more iconic.
[00:26:00.570]Mm-hmm.
[00:26:01.403]And it helps separate--
[00:26:04.380]Yeah.
[00:26:05.213]That notion of here's who I am as a person--
[00:26:07.680]And who's that? And here's the version
[00:26:09.630]of me that I'm willing to share--
[00:26:11.730]Yes.
[00:26:12.563]With other people.
[00:26:13.920]And,
[00:26:15.840]what that allows you to do
[00:26:17.220]is to think through the boundaries of--
[00:26:19.706]Absolutely. Your social media
[00:26:21.120]and how that works.
[00:26:22.560]And again,
[00:26:23.670]people are gonna comment on weird things, right?
[00:26:26.610]Yeah. So, you have to make sure
[00:26:27.780]you're able to set boundaries.
[00:26:30.240]And that alter ego makes it a little bit easier to do that,
[00:26:33.480]that public persona.
[00:26:35.310]Yes, absolutely. So--
[00:26:37.770]Who is the performer
[00:26:39.060]versus who are you as a private citizen
[00:26:41.430]are two different things.
[00:26:42.543]Yep. And that helps organize
[00:26:45.150]what you're gonna say and what you're gonna gonna say.
[00:26:47.250]Alright. Exactly.
[00:26:48.660]So, I think that about wraps us up.
[00:26:52.350]Yeah, it does.
[00:26:53.700]That was exciting.
[00:26:54.630]So, public engagement really
[00:26:57.840]can be one of the most rewarding parts
[00:27:00.270]of an academic career.
[00:27:01.530]But it's also a space where you wanna keep in mind
[00:27:04.620]that things can go sideways really fast.
[00:27:09.420]The key is knowing why you're doing it.
[00:27:12.420]What's the reason that you feel engaged
[00:27:15.750]in this kind of work?
[00:27:17.430]What risks are you willing to take?
[00:27:19.200]And where are you gonna set those boundaries?
[00:27:22.170]And to add to that, what does your institution ask you
[00:27:26.910]to do or not to do?
[00:27:28.740]Whether you're sharing your research with a broader audience
[00:27:31.350]or pushing back against misinformation,
[00:27:34.380]or just looking for ways to stay engaged
[00:27:37.530]and get some feedback on the work you're doing.
[00:27:40.080]Engaged public scholarship should be a choice
[00:27:43.650]and not an obligation.
[00:27:45.450]And you want to think carefully through that choice,
[00:27:49.110]especially early in your career.
[00:27:51.060]Yeah, it shouldn't be an obligation.
[00:27:52.650]So, if you're feeling the pressure
[00:27:54.870]to be a public intellectual,
[00:27:56.460]to be tweeting,
[00:27:58.770]I can't say X-ing.
[00:27:59.965]Yes. That just makes
[00:28:00.798]no sense to me.
[00:28:01.631]I'm not doing it.
[00:28:02.670]That's the kind of energy I've got in 2025.
[00:28:06.540]Don't feel like you have to do it.
[00:28:08.400]Be clear about what your terms of engagement are,
[00:28:11.880]because it's going to take up time,
[00:28:14.040]it's going to take up energy
[00:28:15.360]and that's gonna have to come from somewhere.
[00:28:16.860]And so you want to be clear
[00:28:18.120]about what you actually want to do.
[00:28:21.360]Not everyone needs a byline in the Atlantic,
[00:28:23.850]or a YouTube channel or you know, a Bluesky account.
[00:28:27.660]Yap.
[00:28:28.493]Do what's valuable to you,
[00:28:30.960]what you see as pushing your work forward.
[00:28:34.410]Be sure about your terms.
[00:28:35.520]Understand your terms of engagement.
[00:28:37.890]So, we'd love to hear from you,
[00:28:40.230]how are you engaged in this kind of discourse?
[00:28:43.380]What's worked, what's backfired
[00:28:46.170]and what lessons have you learned from all of that?
[00:28:50.970]And so with that, thanks for watching,
[00:28:53.827]"Not that Kind of Doctor,"
[00:28:55.590]until next time, keep questioning, keep engaging.
[00:28:59.070]And remember,
[00:29:01.169]that we need to not feed the trolls.
[00:29:03.690]Trolls are bad.
[00:29:04.770]We don't care.
[00:29:05.880]Like, get a hobby.
[00:29:09.180]But they're trolling is their hobby, isn't it?
[00:29:10.770]Yeah.
[00:29:11.603]Why couldn't they take a knitting?
[00:29:13.370](bright music)
[00:29:14.203]Trolls, knit or embroider or crochet,
[00:29:17.700]isn't that what the young people
[00:29:19.110]are doing these days?
[00:29:19.943]Crochet.
[00:29:20.776]I don't know.
[00:29:21.609]Okay, we'll see you next time.
[00:29:23.047](upbeat music)

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Not That Kind of Doctor - Being A Public Intellectual

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