Jerome Grossman Holocaust Liberator Testimony

Jerome Grossman Author

11/05/2024 Added

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Holocaust liberator Jerome Grossman talks about his experiences during World War II.

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[00:00:06.570]This is Monday, October 3rd, 2005. My name is Sandy Nogg.
[00:00:11.390]I'll be interviewing Mr. Jerome Grossman for the Veterans History Project.
[00:00:18.490]And we're at the Jewish Community Center in Omaha, Nebraska.
[00:00:23.530]What did you do before you joined the service?
[00:00:30.700]Which group?
[00:00:32.980]The real service, not ROTC or anything in high school, but...
[00:00:37.840]In the Army?
[00:00:38.520]Yes.
[00:00:39.880]Well, of course, that was in 1943. I was in basically just
[00:00:46.360]finishing ROTC at Creighton University.
[00:00:50.000]And I was brought in, however, it happened to [be hay fever] season, so I was returned.
[00:00:56.020]And at that time, I was sent back home, and they,
[00:01:00.880]roughly seven or eight months later, I was brought in again.
[00:01:05.120]And at that time, they retained me, shall we say.
[00:01:08.940]And I went down to Fort Leavenworth to be sworn in. Josh, I believe
[00:01:15.920]I was sworn in Iowa, however, I came down there first stop.
[00:01:21.420]From then on, I was scheduled to go to someplace in Illinois
[00:01:26.580]to be an interpreter.
[00:01:29.140]However, there was a large movement to go to Europe, which turned
[00:01:35.480]out to be for the landing for the Normandy beach head, basically.
[00:01:44.030]And at that time, I was sent down to Abilene in Texas.
[00:01:54.460]Excuse me for one moment.
[00:02:02.920]It was right outside of Abilene.
[00:02:17.280]And from there, we went to [unclear] New York and went to Europe.
[00:02:27.200]We landed in England, where the rest of the 12th Armored Division brought
[00:02:34.520]in its tanks, heavy equipment, and roughly in about, I would say, October.
[00:02:46.160]From 1944, we landed at France, Le Havre.
[00:02:54.060]We brought in the heavy equipment supporting the landing on the Normandy
[00:02:58.520]beach head, from which the French government has given me a certificate.
[00:03:04.860]And then on, we went down, basically, straight
[00:03:08.560]through Europe from that all the way down to the Southern point.
[00:03:14.990]With a number of various items, including the
[00:03:19.530]Colmar battle, which was one of the major battles of the war,
[00:03:23.690]and basically anything else you might want to
[00:03:28.800]know, I'll try to answer.
[00:03:31.080]So you were considered enlisted or drafted because you went through ROTC?
[00:03:35.520]I was enlisted at that time.
[00:03:37.380]You were enlisted?
[00:03:38.300]I was enlisted at that point.
[00:03:42.060]What were your first days in the service like?
[00:03:46.620]Do you remember?
[00:03:50.840]Originally, not too bad.
[00:03:53.000]However, when we were moved into by train down to Texas, in
[00:03:59.100]Abilene, I was a little nervous as to where we might be going.
[00:04:04.620]And at that time, I got into the 12th armored, the tanks, which were
[00:04:09.800]the Combat Command B headquarters.
[00:04:13.120]It wasn't too bad.
[00:04:17.060]I seemed to get along pretty well with the fellows there.
[00:04:20.880]It was a good unit.
[00:04:24.780]And at that point, it was heading for New York.
[00:04:29.040]From New York, as I stated, we went into England and down through Europe.
[00:04:34.540]As far as my feelings in it, I got along quite well.
[00:04:43.340]And continued after the war as various command headquarters,
[00:04:51.980]even though I wasn't at that time an officer.
[00:04:54.760]I was a enlisted man.
[00:04:56.580]But I was sent to various schools from that headquarters and ended
[00:05:00.800]up permanently with the headquarters.
[00:05:06.580]What were your dates of service?
[00:05:09.420]Dates of service, of course, there was a slight hiatus.
[00:05:15.380]Of course, I was in the ROTC. Then I got into the regular. . .
[00:05:25.100]I then stayed with that through, of course, the World War II campaign.
[00:05:30.780]And roughly in June, July of 1946, I came back to the States.
[00:05:43.440]I then, at that point, was out for roughly maybe
[00:05:52.710]nine, eight, nine months, maybe, I suggest, about that time.
[00:05:56.850]Going to Creighton University, obtained a BSC, Bachelor of
[00:06:04.530]Science in Commerce, at that time to a doctorate of jurisprudence.
[00:06:12.610]And then, after I came out of that, after a couple of offers, I accepted a
[00:06:19.650]commission as a First Lieutenant in the Judge
[00:06:21.890]Advocate General Corps, which is a military legal branch.
[00:06:26.850]And shortly thereafter, I took a master's degree course in
[00:06:30.090]New York University for a master's degree in tax law.
[00:06:35.590]But then continued with my actions as a JAG officer, which continued and
[00:06:42.690]continued until I got out roughly the tail end of 1970 in that area.
[00:06:50.110]And retired as a full colonel in the JAG. A number of
[00:06:57.310]other things in the middle, but it depends on what they say.
[00:07:03.290]So you weren't in the service when the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred?
[00:07:08.290]No.
[00:07:09.750]Where were you? Do you know where you were?
[00:07:11.790]I would say at that time, I was in Omaha,
[00:07:14.130]probably attending Creighton University.
[00:07:17.050]And where were you when the war ended?
[00:07:21.090]When the war ended, which would be roughly, if I remember correctly
[00:07:29.220]be around, of course, we ended it, basically, as far as
[00:07:34.440]we were, would be in shortly after the Normandy.
[00:07:39.840]Well, not in the Normandy landing. It would
[00:07:41.460]be roughly, I keep thinking March, April 1945.
[00:07:48.700]But I was somewhere in that area.
[00:07:53.220]I went to Bérus University. They allowed us to go
[00:07:57.740]there when we were not really doing much of anything.
[00:08:02.940]And I was there for one semester and then maintained
[00:08:06.940]by the Bérus University as an art department assistant professor.
[00:08:13.940]And I went to a military unit, military police, outside of Stuttgart, shortly
[00:08:25.180]thereafter I was sent home.
[00:08:30.220]My points were such that I was [already contributed].
[00:08:35.190]What was your job assignment when you were in the service?
[00:08:38.630]Basically, I was in headquarters, Combat Command B, in the 12th Armored.
[00:08:44.550]I was working with the business center, and that, I was also doing guard duty.
[00:08:52.350]I was doing other stuff regarding the guarding
[00:08:57.610]doors, riding in tanks, riding in half tracks.
[00:09:02.870]When we went across the Danube, I was a gunner in a half
[00:09:07.370]track with a machine gun.
[00:09:10.550]So did you see combat, actually?
[00:09:13.890]I presume when they were shooting at us, and
[00:09:17.570]we were shooting back at them, that would be combat. That was combat.
[00:09:21.490]That was mainly in tank and half tracks.
[00:09:26.390]I didn't do much in the way of infantry.
[00:09:29.470]Because I was in Combat Command B, or Combat Command Headquarters.
[00:09:35.840]Were you injured?
[00:09:39.330]I should always say at one point, my hand was injured, however I never even
[00:09:44.790]reported it, except saying here it has bandaged it up, and
[00:09:48.590]I never requested anything.
[00:09:50.310]So there's no general record of it, except God knows where in
[00:09:53.410]the records of the Army.
[00:09:57.410]I never asked for a Purple Heart, never got one.
[00:10:01.590]Were you ever a prisoner of war? No, not in any way.
[00:10:10.810]Were there many casualties in your unit?
[00:10:14.490]As part of Combat Command B, which one must understand it, as
[00:10:17.590]a headquarter for a number of units, there was quite the number.
[00:10:22.070]In one case it was 1,500 killed in one unit, at one time.
[00:10:27.330]Were you ever fearful?
[00:10:30.750]Anybody that is not fearful, with shells going over their head, and you're dancing
[00:10:37.170]in the ground, and you're shooting at the enemy, and the enemy is shooting you.
[00:10:41.150]When planes are shooting at you, and you're trying to
[00:10:44.170]shoot back at them, I would presume you're a little nervous.
[00:10:49.970]I had a man tell me today he never was fearful.
[00:10:56.790]Well, if you're not fearful when this happens, I
[00:10:59.990]would say that you're not in the best mental attitude.
[00:11:06.110]Anytime you've got shells going over your head, you're a wee bit fearful.
[00:11:11.730]Tell me about the food and provisions that you had.
[00:11:15.310]Well, the food was not bad at all.
[00:11:17.670]They had a regular group of, the kitchen got out
[00:11:23.010]there, and they had their role of something, going on, something.
[00:11:36.940]Anyway, the, I don't know, what could I answer that?
[00:11:47.560]We were talking about the food as well?
[00:11:51.180]You were fed and it was okay? Fed and was okay.
[00:11:53.080]I can't complain about it.
[00:11:58.720]Okay. How did you pass any downtime? Did you have periods
[00:12:04.020]of downtime, or did you really feel like you didn't?
[00:12:08.160]There wasn't too much we could do any of it.
[00:12:11.980]And how did you keep in touch with people at home?
[00:12:16.220]Write them letters. We received letters. There didn't
[00:12:19.500]seem to be any stop in doing that.
[00:12:21.180]Okay. And how long did it take letters to reach it on the outside thing?
[00:12:27.120]It wasn't too bad if my memory serves me correct. I
[00:12:29.480]don't know the exact dates or times, but whenever they got through.
[00:12:33.480]And sometimes it was very good. Sometimes if we
[00:12:36.260]were out in the field someplace, it wasn't the best.
[00:12:42.360]Did you have time for recreation at all?
[00:12:48.000]I suppose it depends on which recreation is. After
[00:12:51.100]the war, yes. During the middle of the battles no.
[00:12:57.810]Okay. Were you able to celebrate Jewish holidays?
[00:13:01.070]Not much. I can give you some stories that may not
[00:13:05.410]be good, may not be bad, but it wouldn't be about me.
[00:13:08.810]One was about a Jewish lieutenant. If you want
[00:13:10.850]that type of information, I'll bring it up here.
[00:13:13.150]He was a lieutenant and he used to go periodically
[00:13:20.570]they would have some Jewish rabbi or somebody
[00:13:23.370]in division headquarters.
[00:13:26.410]And if you wanted to go, you could get into a car or
[00:13:29.510]you got into some kind of transportation and you
[00:13:32.210]went to division headquarters.
[00:13:34.030]There was nothing down in the units.
[00:13:37.830]This fellow went almost all the time that he could go. And he
[00:13:42.730]had the possibility of going to division headquarters where
[00:13:46.990]there was some service.
[00:13:50.070]However, I remember distinctly after Landsberg, which I've
[00:13:55.250]mentioned, he was one that went into the camp.
[00:14:02.410]I stayed around the edges of it. I didn't particularly
[00:14:05.250]care to involve myself.
[00:14:07.190]I was in the headquarters. We went over looking
[00:14:10.350]around, but it wasn't very serious limits. I didn't.
[00:14:14.150]He was so put out, shall we say, from what he saw,
[00:14:19.270]that he claimed he would never go to a Jewish ceremony again.
[00:14:24.590]He says if God is that mean he didn't want anything to
[00:14:29.210]do with him. So they have reactions, which is hard to say.
[00:14:33.250]Now, I would presume that people here wouldn't know what he saw.
[00:14:38.170]I saw some of what he saw. I have photos of what he saw.
[00:14:44.070]And they certainly were not such that would
[00:14:47.190]send you very much in religion or anything else.
[00:14:54.490]Were you able to practice Judaism during your service?
[00:14:58.090]I would say generally no.
[00:15:03.280]Did you take any ceremonial objects with you, a [unclear] or kippah?
[00:15:09.560]No.
[00:15:10.320]When you were moving with it, consistently, which we
[00:15:14.440]were, you were lucky you had your clothes, you had
[00:15:18.700]a weapon, and this type of thing.
[00:15:23.060]The rest was extraneous.
[00:15:24.400]Yeah, this was definitely extreme.
[00:15:28.920]Did you have any conflicts during your service period
[00:15:31.820]because you were Jewish?
[00:15:34.400]Really, I would say generally no. I had no trouble
[00:15:37.660]at all with anybody. They accepted me, I accepted them.
[00:15:43.580]Did the tenure change after, obviously, your unit was
[00:15:50.640]near the camp, after people saw what had gone on?
[00:15:57.560]Did people react indifferently towards you knowing you were Jewish?
[00:16:03.180]I would say basically I never did have any trouble, period.
[00:16:09.300]I don't think anybody ever looked at me in any way being Jewish.
[00:16:14.440]The commanding officer as a combat command was extremely nice.
[00:16:19.280]He always depended on me to do a lot of things.
[00:16:24.640]I was a fairly low rank, and at that time
[00:16:27.840]there was a full colonel ahead of our unit, our headquarters.
[00:16:32.000]However, I got along extremely well, and my head got along
[00:16:34.500]extremely well with everybody in there.
[00:16:37.140]And if somebody attempted to disagree with me and
[00:16:43.020]the colonel was around there, they did that once.
[00:16:47.860]Did you ever doubt your religion during this period?
[00:16:51.240]Were you actively religious before you were in the service?
[00:16:58.020]Actively going to Temple and that type of thing?
[00:17:01.260]Did you go to services with some regularity?
[00:17:03.660]Yes. To a certain degree, I would say yes. That's while I was in Omaha.
[00:17:08.800]But services in our unit was consistently traveled,
[00:17:13.660]and always on the travel, in the tanks, etc., as I told you.
[00:17:17.960]We didn't stop very much to do much anywhere.
[00:17:21.859]Because most of our activity was in, religious, was in division
[00:17:25.339]headquarters, which we had very, very little contact with, except by phone, and by message.
[00:17:35.020]Were there other Jewish servicemen in your unit that -yes -were aware of each other?
[00:17:41.140]Yes? You were? Yes.
[00:17:43.020]Did you get together for services?
[00:17:45.000]No.
[00:17:45.980]Ever? I mean, just felt...
[00:17:47.620]Because of the fact that we never were at any place where
[00:17:51.040]really services were offered.
[00:17:53.480]Okay. Do you recall the day you left the service?
[00:18:02.680]Well, I would say there was a hiatus there.
[00:18:05.160]But I suppose, except for that hiatus of a few months, I
[00:18:09.820]never did leave the service.
[00:18:11.580]From the time I got in to the time I got out. Until you retired.
[00:18:15.340]I mean, I was of course a civilian, but I was also a military as well.
[00:18:19.460]Mm-hmm. Where were you when the war ended?
[00:18:28.380]As I said, I was in a, I would say, southern
[00:18:31.900]part of Europe, somewhere around Montsberg as they . . . where the concentration camp was.
[00:18:37.920]And then we moved into the let's see where would we be after that.
[00:18:52.050]For a while we were outside of Stuttgart, but that was after
[00:18:55.510]I came back from school.
[00:19:03.310]But mainly in parts of Germany, and I don't remember the city off hand.
[00:19:09.190]And then, of course, I think I mentioned that we went to Beerus.
[00:19:14.550]And when I was in Beerus, again, there wasn't
[00:19:18.210]too much of a synagogues or anything like that.
[00:19:23.930]I was on the edge of Spain, we were. Beerus, if you're familiar
[00:19:27.710]with this, is right on the coast of actually the Mediterranean.
[00:19:34.930]Gorgeous city. But not much relation to even either.
[00:19:40.770]Did you make any close friendships while you were in the service?
[00:19:44.190]A lot.
[00:19:45.990]Did you continue to?
[00:19:48.210]A number of them. In fact, I'm still a member of the
[00:19:51.350]12th Armor -the Hellcat Association, which is the 12th Armor.
[00:19:55.210]However, it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller,
[00:19:58.730]until one of these days they're talking about disbanding.
[00:20:03.510]Are you a member of any veterans or other organizations
[00:20:06.210]related to your service?
[00:20:10.310]May I sit, look.
[00:20:25.120]I was President of the Nebraska Reserve Officers Association. Statewide, and otherwise.
[00:20:33.250]I was commander of the Iowa and Nebraska Jewish
[00:20:37.670]War Veterans Association.
[00:20:41.670]I was a member of the American Legion, it had
[00:20:46.150]been for years, but I never was that active in it.
[00:20:52.050]As far as the various activities I have in military groups, I've
[00:21:00.170]got two paragraphs on.
[00:21:01.970]At which mainly I was usually the president or the commander.
[00:21:06.430]If you want them, I'll be glad to tell you what they are.
[00:21:09.630]It's up to you completely.
[00:21:11.190]Go right ahead.
[00:21:11.930]Well, in 1977, in Who's Who in Nebraska, I copied this out of it.
[00:21:22.830]I was the coordinator of the Byron Reed collection, president of
[00:21:28.120]the Byron Reed Historical Association.
[00:21:30.300]You see, many decorations, I guess there were four other roles.
[00:21:36.120]Omaha Bar association.
[00:21:39.700]I was president and attorney of the Retired
[00:21:42.820]Officers Association, now Military Officers Association of America.
[00:21:47.640]I was an art instructor and student at Bérus France.
[00:21:51.880]I was an ex-official member of the Naval Reserve Training Command.
[00:21:57.720]I was, of course, in the 5th Army JAG Office.
[00:22:01.660]Command General Staff, member of the Nebraska Bar, U.S.
[00:22:04.260]District Court, United States Supreme Court, U.S. Tax Court,
[00:22:07.700]Court of Military Appeals, I was a member of that.
[00:22:13.260]I don't know what I was trying to say.
[00:22:14.800]I could give a lot more than that. That's enough of it.
[00:22:17.860]Are there reunions on any of your service organizations that you attend?
[00:22:22.860]I attended most of them because I was president of most of them.
[00:22:26.820]However, the ones that I'm active in right
[00:22:28.740]now is probably still the one that I mentioned,
[00:22:35.200]which is mostly, I would say mostly, high-ranking officers.
[00:22:47.230]Retired Officers Association, Military Officers Association of America.
[00:22:57.600]I was formerly as commander, and I'm still active on the board.
[00:23:03.360]My wife and my son, believe it or not, are fairly active.
[00:23:07.560]I go out with them some time to the Reserve Officers Association,
[00:23:12.880]which they have a group that takes in pies, and it's
[00:23:19.280]getting smaller and smaller.
[00:23:21.340]I was, at one time, commander of that, and the attorney for both of them.
[00:23:28.840]Do you have any most memorable experience?
[00:23:36.060]I'll give you one which I feel is probably a miracle.
[00:23:43.800]We were in a place called Bischwiller, which was a great hospital in Germany.
[00:23:50.760]At that time, the Germans had caved in on us.
[00:23:56.140]1,500 members were possibly killed.
[00:23:59.720]We were surrounding a large hospital.
[00:24:04.200]Everybody that could damn near walk or carry
[00:24:06.940]a gun was in one of the doorways,
[00:24:10.480]a big hospital, numerous doorways.
[00:24:13.160]I was there at the break of morning, it was dark, and as the light started,
[00:24:24.380]I heard something (clap, clap) that sound right in front of me.
[00:24:31.510]I challenged it with my rifle.
[00:24:33.250]I didn't know who was there.
[00:24:35.510]We knew the Germans were out there.
[00:24:36.930]They had an American uniform and spoke American English.
[00:24:43.030]So, as you were supposed to ask 'em a question, if you didn't
[00:24:49.150]like the answer, shoot.
[00:24:53.770]The morning started breaking.
[00:24:56.590]I looked as far as about, I would say, not more than
[00:25:01.290]three to four feet in front of me were two tank shells.
[00:25:06.970]Neither of them exploded.
[00:25:10.210]I had challenged two tank shells that either one
[00:25:12.830]would have blown me and the doorway to kingdom come.
[00:25:16.890]And you could look on the hill, and there was a line of
[00:25:19.830]king tigers out there ready to come in on us in the morning.
[00:25:24.210]A doctor I knew drove past me and said, Jerry, what in the
[00:25:27.710]hell are you doing here?
[00:25:29.450]Everybody's leaving.
[00:25:31.330]And I told him, he says, do you know where the guards are?
[00:25:34.310]I said, yes. He said, hop in. We're going to get rid of them. We'll get them out.
[00:25:38.550]And we went around, and I grabbed one of the trucks
[00:25:40.850]going out, so did everybody else, and we came out of there.
[00:25:44.650]But I would say, if anything, as close as a miracle as
[00:25:49.390]you could possibly ever have,
[00:25:50.810]either one would have blown me and the doorway to kingdom come.
[00:25:54.450]Is there anything else you'd like to wrap this interview up with in particular?
[00:25:59.750]Nothing except what you might want to know.
[00:26:02.530]I think I've asked my questions.
[00:26:06.070]I'd like to thank Mr. Grossman for this opportunity to interview him,
[00:26:09.750]and we are finished.

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Jerome Grossman Holocaust Liberator Testimony

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