Not That Kind of Doctor - Academic Crossroads: Should You Move to a New Institution?
TLTE
Author
10/25/2024
Added
0
Plays
Description
In this episode of Not That Kind of Doctor, Nick Husbye and Guy Trainin tackle one of the biggest questions on the tenure track: should you stay at your current institution or consider a move? They walk through the key considerations for making this career-defining decision, including how to assess work environment, professional growth opportunities, and potential for a better fit elsewhere. With insights on distinguishing institutional culture from personal challenges and the practical realities of making a move, Nick and Guy help you weigh the risks and rewards to find the best path forward.
Key Takeaways:
Know Your “Why”: Dig deep into why you’re considering a move—whether it’s career stagnation, work environment, or a new opportunity.
Identify Work Culture vs. Personal Boundaries: Learn to recognize if it's the workplace or your own boundaries that need adjustment, and how that might shape your next steps.
Assess the Risks and Rewards: Moving institutions is a big deal; they’ll help you weigh the professional and personal pros and cons.
Explore Your Support System: Building connections and maintaining a healthy work culture can make all the difference in deciding to stay or go.
Navigating the Transition: If you decide to move, Nick and Guy share tips on managing the logistical and emotional challenges that come with it.
Join Nick and Guy for a real, relatable conversation on navigating this pivotal career choice with a mix of honest reflection, practical advice, and the humor you expect from Not That Kind of Doctor!
Switching Positions & Institutions - Not That Kind of Doctor with Nick Husbye and Guy Trainin
www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor
Searchable Transcript
Toggle between list and paragraph view.
- [00:00:00.210]All right, so you've got that tenure track job
- [00:00:02.640]and now you are wondering if you are in the right place
- [00:00:06.000]or if it's time for you to pack your bags.
- [00:00:08.340]Yeah, and here's the thing, deciding whether to stay
- [00:00:11.430]or go isn't just about say a shiny new offer
- [00:00:15.690]or feeling stuck.
- [00:00:17.160]It's really like playing a game of chess
- [00:00:19.680]and you have to think through what's your next move?
- [00:00:22.110]And more importantly,
- [00:00:23.850]why are you even thinking about making a move?
- [00:00:26.790]So in today's episodes we're really breaking down
- [00:00:29.970]this decision tree to decide should I stay
- [00:00:33.960]or should I go to help you figure out if it's time for you
- [00:00:37.770]to make a move or dig in deeper
- [00:00:39.720]and make the best out of the place you're at.
- [00:00:42.690]We're gonna talk about some of the real reasons
- [00:00:44.700]why you might be thinking about leaving
- [00:00:47.100]and whether it's the work or the culture
- [00:00:50.430]that's dragging you down and what it actually takes
- [00:00:53.880]to make that leap if you're ready.
- [00:00:57.330]And trust me, I've been there.
- [00:01:01.680]I've been there.
- [00:01:03.150]I have too, actually.
- [00:01:04.770]So grab that cup of coffee, buckle up
- [00:01:07.950]and let's navigate this academic crossword together.
- [00:01:10.939](upbeat EDM music)
- [00:01:19.290]So let's start out with our first big thing,
- [00:01:24.930]which is really getting serious about
- [00:01:28.770]what's the real reason you're thinking about leaving.
- [00:01:33.660]And there's a couple of different things
- [00:01:37.770]that are important as you're considering this question.
- [00:01:41.760]So for instance, are you bored
- [00:01:44.250]or are you feeling stuck professionally?
- [00:01:47.490]And this could be feeling unchallenged,
- [00:01:51.660]you're feeling like there's not necessarily room
- [00:01:53.670]to grow within your current job.
- [00:01:55.890]You've hit a ceiling.
- [00:01:57.840]And I have often found, and I don't know
- [00:02:01.500]if you have other ways of thinking about this,
- [00:02:04.140]that it's helpful to have a discussion with a mentor
- [00:02:08.220]or with a colleague or a critical friend
- [00:02:11.100]around those kinds of things
- [00:02:13.470]in order to kind of root out, am I just bored?
- [00:02:18.090]Am I stuck? What is happening here?
- [00:02:21.540]And part of that discussion is of course,
- [00:02:24.330]figuring out is it the institution,
- [00:02:29.130]and maybe another place would be better.
- [00:02:31.770]Or is it just the type of things we do
- [00:02:35.760]that are dragging you down and you're like,
- [00:02:37.987]"I don't wanna do this anymore
- [00:02:39.937]"and this is not fun for me."
- [00:02:43.140]My example in taking it from somewhere else is,
- [00:02:46.110]I often think about pediatricians.
- [00:02:48.420]And pediatricians, you learn many years and you work really,
- [00:02:51.180]really hard and then most of what you see is not.
- [00:02:55.200]Day in and day out, 95% of the kids walk in
- [00:02:58.950]with some kind of snot that is either a virus
- [00:03:01.710]or you help them with basic medicine.
- [00:03:03.870]That is most of your day-to-day.
- [00:03:05.850]And is that the most stimulating activity?
- [00:03:09.120]Probably not, but there's a point where you have to decide,
- [00:03:12.930]is this what I wanna do or not?
- [00:03:14.790]And I think academia can be like that,
- [00:03:17.190]although I think our lives are more interesting than snot.
- [00:03:20.220]I mean it kind of hits me,
- [00:03:22.410]that's my first grade teaching career.
- [00:03:24.870]Kids came in with snot, except at least I had a read aloud.
- [00:03:28.830]So that makes me kind of happy.
- [00:03:31.410]But there's something that you touched on
- [00:03:33.450]that I think is important as you're thinking about,
- [00:03:37.170]is this the right institution for you,
- [00:03:39.540]and that's thinking through is it a toxic environment?
- [00:03:44.089]Absolutely.
- [00:03:44.922]Is it truly a toxic environment?
- [00:03:47.160]And is it the work culture that's negative
- [00:03:52.860]or is it kind of our own perception
- [00:03:57.870]of what's happening within that work culture?
- [00:04:01.020]Thinking through,
- [00:04:04.320]is it...
- [00:04:06.390]Look, moving takes a lot out of you.
- [00:04:07.950]Moving is exhausting.
- [00:04:09.491]I've done this process twice and it takes a lot out of you.
- [00:04:15.360]Is the environment truly toxic or can it be mediated?
- [00:04:20.370]And are there people that you can talk with
- [00:04:23.430]in order to think about what's happening there?
- [00:04:29.130]And I would love to know 'cause you have been here for--
- [00:04:35.490]For a while. For a while.
- [00:04:36.780]You have a history here. Yes.
- [00:04:37.980]So what have been the ways that...
- [00:04:43.530]Let's be real. jobs do not always...
- [00:04:47.910]They're not sunshine and rainbows all the time.
- [00:04:50.250]So what are some of the ways that you have mediated
- [00:04:52.920]your work environment in order
- [00:04:55.230]to have a long career at a single institution,
- [00:04:58.890]which I feel is a little bit of an anomaly these days.
- [00:05:01.530](Guy laughing)
- [00:05:02.670]So I think that there are a few things.
- [00:05:05.730]The first thing that I always think about,
- [00:05:07.560]we all have low moments.
- [00:05:08.700]We all have moments are like
- [00:05:11.370]my work life is right now a dumpster fire.
- [00:05:14.670]I just came back from travel and all of the meetings,
- [00:05:17.670]suddenly my calendar is full morning to night.
- [00:05:20.970]And I'm like, this cannot go on.
- [00:05:22.770]But I do know that this is cyclical
- [00:05:26.520]and that I have control over that.
- [00:05:28.020]So one of the things I always ask myself is,
- [00:05:30.780]is this something that, going back,
- [00:05:33.090]is this a toxic environment
- [00:05:34.410]that demands unreasonable things for me?
- [00:05:36.300]Or this is something that I did to myself?
- [00:05:38.730]Because if I did it to myself,
- [00:05:39.930]I can also undo it very easily.
- [00:05:42.960]Or not very easily, but easily.
- [00:05:44.760]So that's one thing I think about.
- [00:05:46.830]And I also, there are two things that always come back to me
- [00:05:52.830]and that is if you have one good friend at work
- [00:05:56.910]that changes everything.
- [00:05:59.310]And managing the kind of activities you do
- [00:06:04.110]and the things you show up for also helps manage
- [00:06:07.230]when the environment gets a little bit more toxic,
- [00:06:10.440]you can say, "Okay, here are the people
- [00:06:12.367]"I'm gonna spend time with, professionally
- [00:06:14.977]"and here's some meetings that I will simply not go to."
- [00:06:19.350]Now if you're pre-tenure, you don't always have as much
- [00:06:22.740]of the option, but you can protect yourself
- [00:06:25.710]from a lot of interactions.
- [00:06:27.090]Don't volunteer to be on a committee with people
- [00:06:29.370]that are very difficult for you.
- [00:06:31.200]Just don't do it.
- [00:06:33.060]Yes, you might have something important
- [00:06:34.830]to say in that committee, but maybe it's not worth it.
- [00:06:37.380]So managing the interactions you're going to have,
- [00:06:41.460]understanding that the nature
- [00:06:43.350]of the institution tends to change.
- [00:06:45.450]So I'm here in year 23,
- [00:06:48.210]this looks nothing like the institution I showed up at.
- [00:06:52.230]Well, and I feel like you do a phenomenal job
- [00:06:55.335]of really being an ally in those kind of spaces
- [00:06:58.680]where you know there's some political tension.
- [00:07:00.630]And so if you're stuck in a toxic environment,
- [00:07:04.170]and sometimes these are just temporarily toxic,
- [00:07:06.510]it's not long term toxic, lean on your colleagues.
- [00:07:10.800]Lean on your friends to, if you have to go to a meeting
- [00:07:14.610]and someone is creating some toxicity, have a person sit
- [00:07:19.080]between you and this other person.
- [00:07:20.643]Have someone else put some distance between that.
- [00:07:24.990]And that's one strategy,
- [00:07:26.520]but backing out is that a pattern of toxicity
- [00:07:33.300]or is that a one-off
- [00:07:38.970]and being clear about that?
- [00:07:42.780]Absolutely.
- [00:07:43.613]Are you seeing multiple incidences of it
- [00:07:45.540]and that'll help you...
- [00:07:46.620]Is it, it's you hi, you're the problem, it's you?
- [00:07:49.860]That is always possible.
- [00:07:51.602]Or, because that's never gonna change
- [00:07:54.390]regardless of which institution you go to.
- [00:07:56.160]You always take yourself with,
- [00:07:58.050]you always pack yourself first, as my mom used to say.
- [00:08:01.050]But hopefully a little bit smarter every time.
- [00:08:02.880]I mean, hopefully a little bit smarter,
- [00:08:04.590]hopefully a little bit better.
- [00:08:06.300]But eh, no guarantees, right?
- [00:08:10.680]And so if it's a you problem, then that's not gonna change.
- [00:08:15.630]But, if it is an institutional problem,
- [00:08:18.060]look for those patterns, try to figure that out.
- [00:08:20.370]And the second piece to understand of course is,
- [00:08:24.000]is this a toxicity problem and therefore another place
- [00:08:28.020]that is less toxic will work for you?
- [00:08:29.880]Or is this really something you don't want to do anymore?
- [00:08:33.540]You don't love the teaching, you don't like the research,
- [00:08:36.570]the service is weighing down on you.
- [00:08:38.280]There's not much left, so you gotta really think about
- [00:08:43.230]what are the opportunities and how it'll make you happier.
- [00:08:46.920]Also keep in mind that even if you are interviewing
- [00:08:50.610]at other institutions, they're going to engage
- [00:08:53.220]in the biggest canine and equine show possible.
- [00:08:56.580]And so it's really hard to get a sense of
- [00:09:01.620]just how toxic, if this place is toxic,
- [00:09:05.250]is that particular space.
- [00:09:07.020]And there's some clues,
- [00:09:08.310]but they're pretty subtle, pretty nuanced.
- [00:09:11.190]So just because it's a new place doesn't mean
- [00:09:13.410]that it's gonna be any better.
- [00:09:15.210]That is very true. Yeah. So you always
- [00:09:16.800]wanna keep that in mind.
- [00:09:17.910]And if you happen to be the recipient
- [00:09:21.960]of shiny new offers, and that might be one of the reasons
- [00:09:24.930]that you're thinking about leaving,
- [00:09:27.000]you may wanna think through, is that higher salary
- [00:09:31.080]or that better location worth it?
- [00:09:34.290]What is it about those elements
- [00:09:36.480]that are really drawing you to this?
- [00:09:38.880]Does it align with your professional and personal plans?
- [00:09:42.240]And if it checks some of those boxes, if it aligns
- [00:09:47.160]with kind of who you want to become, we all like more money.
- [00:09:51.930]We all like resources to do more things.
- [00:09:54.210]If they align with who you wanna become, then yeah,
- [00:09:56.670]totally take it seriously.
- [00:09:58.500]And I think one of the hardest things
- [00:10:00.510]for us in academic jobs is that we have to,
- [00:10:03.660]and you're very good at this,
- [00:10:04.770]but we have to be the ones putting the boundaries in
- [00:10:07.890]because the job naturally takes over
- [00:10:11.430]and you can be doing 250% of your time
- [00:10:15.300]and still feel like you are not quite finishing everything
- [00:10:21.870]because-- Constantly behind.
- [00:10:22.950]Yes. We are constantly feeling behind.
- [00:10:25.140]So this is one of the things that really weighs down
- [00:10:27.660]and you don't find healthy, productive ways
- [00:10:30.990]to cope with that.
- [00:10:32.760]That might be one of those signals
- [00:10:34.440]that you may need a different kind of job.
- [00:10:37.350]And so one of the things that you can do
- [00:10:40.650]to help you think about workload challenges,
- [00:10:44.400]is it the work or is the the culture
- [00:10:46.470]that's dragging you down, is really thinking about
- [00:10:49.710]what are the boundaries that I'm putting on my time?
- [00:10:52.740]What are the boundaries that I'm putting on my energy?
- [00:10:55.110]And this is not a new topic for us.
- [00:10:58.590]We have been talking about this
- [00:11:00.030]for three years now. Yes.
- [00:11:02.340]And if it's not directly talked about,
- [00:11:05.520]it's always in the background.
- [00:11:07.200]Always. Always.
- [00:11:08.280]And so you have to be responsible for
- [00:11:13.290]not allowing everyone to have access to your time,
- [00:11:16.470]not allowing everyone to have access to your resources.
- [00:11:20.310]You want to be thinking about what are your commitments?
- [00:11:26.100]Can you renegotiate, can you rebalance?
- [00:11:29.130]And what can you say no to?
- [00:11:31.590]Even though no is hard. Hard.
- [00:11:34.530]Yes. Very hard sometimes. So hard.
- [00:11:37.680]Especially when you're fairly new to a place,
- [00:11:41.040]that's where mentorship comes in.
- [00:11:42.510]That's where mentorship really comes in.
- [00:11:44.580]And that also brings us to a larger question
- [00:11:47.790]of the cultural fit.
- [00:11:50.070]Because hopefully if you're an assistant professor,
- [00:11:55.530]your institution's kind of wrapping its support around you
- [00:11:58.560]and part of that is protecting your time.
- [00:12:01.230]But that hearkens to a larger cultural fit.
- [00:12:06.360]Your comment about, "This is not the institution
- [00:12:09.787]"that I started at as it is now."
- [00:12:13.530]And thinking through what are the values,
- [00:12:17.220]what are the mission?
- [00:12:18.660]What does an institution say it does
- [00:12:21.960]versus what it actually does?
- [00:12:25.740]'Cause those are two very different things
- [00:12:27.750]and you're often in the middle of it.
- [00:12:30.000]How does that play out for you
- [00:12:31.710]and how important is that to your work life?
- [00:12:35.160]And for us in education,
- [00:12:36.600]we have kind of a mission-driven history.
- [00:12:39.900]And so I know that tends to be a point
- [00:12:42.000]of contention for a lot of people.
- [00:12:43.350]How do you deal with that?
- [00:12:44.550]How have you dealt with that, given the fact
- [00:12:46.560]that you've been here for a very long time
- [00:12:49.710]and yet look ever youthful by the way.
- [00:12:51.255](Guy laughing) Nicely done.
- [00:12:53.880]So I think that the idea
- [00:12:58.050]around reassessing your work on a regular basis,
- [00:13:01.470]making choices, being an active participant
- [00:13:04.230]and realizing that we have a lot
- [00:13:08.640]of leeway to make decisions, we have a lot of agency.
- [00:13:15.120]And I have met at the same place, other people
- [00:13:19.020]who did not feel they had as much agency
- [00:13:21.960]to make decisions about their own path.
- [00:13:24.210]And that's a very important feeling.
- [00:13:26.250]And you have to really look at it and say,
- [00:13:28.087]"Why do I feel like I don't have agency?"
- [00:13:29.940]And if you really don't, that is a very good signal
- [00:13:33.240]that given everything else, maybe it's time to move.
- [00:13:37.080]And then you have to think, is it just this place
- [00:13:40.590]or is it going to be always like that?
- [00:13:43.290]And then maybe I need to leave academia,
- [00:13:45.450]pack my bags and find something else.
- [00:13:47.820]Right, like if it's a core job responsibility
- [00:13:53.250]that you're gonna have regardless of
- [00:13:55.209]which institution you're at, it's teaching or it's research
- [00:13:59.190]or it's certain kinds of service.
- [00:14:02.130]If those are the things that are getting in your way,
- [00:14:04.710]then maybe consider leaving academia,
- [00:14:08.550]which we'll talk about that later this season.
- [00:14:11.610]But if those core job responsibilities
- [00:14:14.730]still resonate with you, then yeah, it might be time
- [00:14:18.240]to be thinking about moving to a different institution.
- [00:14:21.360]If you're finding that either the workload is too big,
- [00:14:24.930]even if you've put boundaries on your time
- [00:14:26.850]and people keep pushing up against those boundaries,
- [00:14:30.000]you're entitled to a weekend.
- [00:14:33.143]You are entitled to not working after 5:00 PM
- [00:14:36.900]if you start at nine.
- [00:14:38.550]That seems reasonable to me.
- [00:14:40.350]So if it's asking too much of your time,
- [00:14:43.410]too much of your energy, that might be a time to head out.
- [00:14:53.070]And so-- Yes.
- [00:14:54.480]As we're thinking about this, so you weigh
- [00:14:58.770]what are the benefits of moving,
- [00:15:01.170]finding a new better culture or whether it is--
- [00:15:03.581]Ugh. Spreadsheets. (Guy laughing)
- [00:15:06.900]Or a place that will allow you to have more agency
- [00:15:11.340]and will allow you to make more decisions.
- [00:15:13.500]Or maybe they're paying more, always important,
- [00:15:17.280]better conditions, whatever it may be.
- [00:15:20.100]What are the risks? Because it's not just rewards.
- [00:15:23.790]There's a risk every time you decide to make a change.
- [00:15:26.580]Oh, there's totally risks.
- [00:15:28.770]And when I say, oh the spreadsheets.
- [00:15:33.900]So I've done this, I've moved institutions twice,
- [00:15:37.800]once from St. Louis to Milwaukee,
- [00:15:39.390]once from Milwaukee to here.
- [00:15:44.481]And there is the job level kind of risk.
- [00:15:49.260]Like what am I getting into?
- [00:15:51.180]Am I really moving from one space to another
- [00:15:55.110]that's going to be an improvement?
- [00:15:57.720]How is that going to impact my workload?
- [00:15:59.460]Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
- [00:16:00.570]But then there's also the nitty gritty of it.
- [00:16:05.310]I know we're not gonna have an episode
- [00:16:06.990]'cause you already poo-pooed it on retirement,
- [00:16:09.060]but you have to think about retirement.
- [00:16:11.160]You have to think about-- What happens after.
- [00:16:13.800]Well, and not only what happens after,
- [00:16:15.930]but if you're leaving one institution
- [00:16:17.910]for another institution, what happens to the retirement
- [00:16:20.400]that you've accrued during that time there?
- [00:16:23.400]Some places you have to be vested.
- [00:16:25.620]When you're vested, you have to spend a certain number
- [00:16:28.590]of years with that institution in order to get access
- [00:16:32.640]to their contributions to your retirement fund.
- [00:16:36.210]And sometimes you don't get them.
- [00:16:40.770]And so you have to think about,
- [00:16:42.330]is it worth it for me to lose that money
- [00:16:47.940]in order to move somewhere where
- [00:16:50.010]I have the potential to be happier?
- [00:16:52.260]Or is it such an amount of money that
- [00:16:57.330]I'm gonna stay. Is gonna cover it.
- [00:16:59.550]And it makes it worth it.
- [00:17:00.660]So you have to think through all of that.
- [00:17:06.510]Do you lose those benefits?
- [00:17:09.000]When do you have to
- [00:17:13.050]submit your resignation?
- [00:17:14.340]How do you maintain your health benefits over the summer
- [00:17:18.330]between when you leave one institution
- [00:17:21.630]and go to the other one?
- [00:17:23.040]The answer is you give an effective date,
- [00:17:25.080]that's the day before your new contract starts.
- [00:17:27.600]And then once your new contract starts, you're good to go.
- [00:17:30.270]So you don't have any lack there.
- [00:17:34.410]There's the other thing to consider is somebody
- [00:17:38.100]that have moved with a family is you have to think about
- [00:17:42.030]your family, whoever is around you and you are with.
- [00:17:47.250]Because you've already moved once
- [00:17:49.680]probably to go to graduate school.
- [00:17:51.870]And then after graduate school you moved
- [00:17:53.940]at least once to get the job.
- [00:17:55.920]So now you are asking your family to move
- [00:17:59.430]for a third and maybe a fourth time.
- [00:18:01.740]So that's a big ask.
- [00:18:03.390]And that again changes the calculus a little bit
- [00:18:07.290]and it goes well yes, this may be a little bit better,
- [00:18:11.460]but now I am disrupting my family and friendships
- [00:18:16.140]and I'm talking about family.
- [00:18:17.640]But even as yourself, you create a social environment
- [00:18:20.910]where you feel comfortable, where you have community
- [00:18:23.280]and suddenly you go and you move 500 miles or a thousand
- [00:18:26.940]or 3000 miles and suddenly or that whole social network
- [00:18:32.070]that supports you, that makes you happy,
- [00:18:33.900]whatever it is, is gone.
- [00:18:35.340]That's a loss too.
- [00:18:36.720]And I find that the older I am,
- [00:18:40.770]the harder it is to recover that social environment.
- [00:18:45.810]Well I mean let's again be honest,
- [00:18:48.360]it is hard to make friends.
- [00:18:50.490]As an adult it is just hard to make friends.
- [00:18:52.980]And so when you have constructed a social circle
- [00:18:58.680]in the space where you're at, you really need
- [00:19:01.260]to think through both the logistics from a,
- [00:19:05.400]oh my gosh, this could be moving kind of way,
- [00:19:08.520]but also from a mental health, social support kind of way.
- [00:19:14.700]You are going to wanna have plans in place
- [00:19:18.990]to maintain those relationships.
- [00:19:22.050]Like I'm actually going to a colleague
- [00:19:24.300]from Milwaukee's birthday party's next week
- [00:19:27.030]because I set that up before I left that institution.
- [00:19:30.780]And you have to be ready for that kind of emotional fallout
- [00:19:35.850]because you go to this new space and
- [00:19:39.630]oh, the faculty's gonna be really,
- [00:19:40.800]really happy that you're there.
- [00:19:42.240]But they also have lives going on and you're gonna be like,
- [00:19:44.617]"I don't know where the grocery store is.
- [00:19:46.537]"I have all these boxes to unpack.
- [00:19:48.547]"I have all of this stuff."
- [00:19:51.240]And while we're talking about boxes,
- [00:19:55.020]if you use your summers to do work,
- [00:20:01.440]that summer, be prepared not to
- [00:20:04.470]because you are going to be managing a move.
- [00:20:08.370]Yeah. And that's a whole thing.
- [00:20:09.750]And that's a whole thing.
- [00:20:11.460]And it's the packing or if you hire that out,
- [00:20:14.520]it's supervising the packing
- [00:20:16.140]and it's the where is my stuff and tracking it
- [00:20:19.440]and then, "Oh hey, I need a place to live."
- [00:20:22.140]And there's a lot of stuff that goes into that process.
- [00:20:28.200]And so,
- [00:20:30.450]are you able to absorb the loss of that time?
- [00:20:34.620]Are you able to be okay with
- [00:20:40.020]setting up plans with friends that you're leaving
- [00:20:42.330]and how is it impacting your professional growth?
- [00:20:46.830]What is the impact going to be?
- [00:20:49.020]What is it potentially gonna be there?
- [00:20:51.060]And I've worked with a number
- [00:20:53.040]of past students that have moved
- [00:20:57.267]in the recent summer, really.
- [00:21:01.470]And I can see that fallout.
- [00:21:03.776]There was a few months where suddenly it was very quiet.
- [00:21:07.410]It was good for them. But they moved with family.
- [00:21:10.740]So on top of the packing and unpacking,
- [00:21:12.780]you gotta find school for your kids.
- [00:21:14.430]You gotta find where to get everything.
- [00:21:18.090]I mean in one case, where do you get a piano teacher
- [00:21:21.810]for your child who's playing?
- [00:21:24.150]There's a lot of detail going there.
- [00:21:26.160]That's going to be lost.
- [00:21:27.540]And I do want to add, at least from our perspective
- [00:21:30.480]as researchers who work much in the field,
- [00:21:33.390]so our labs, our classrooms and schools and all of that
- [00:21:37.110]is that now you have to reestablish yourself.
- [00:21:40.320]This has been a major reason for me,
- [00:21:44.370]as I've gone on the market a few times,
- [00:21:46.440]to really rethink carefully about the opportunities
- [00:21:50.100]because I have a lot of trust.
- [00:21:52.440]I know a lot of people that are out in schools.
- [00:21:55.710]If I want to do a project, I know who to talk to.
- [00:21:58.860]If I move to another state,
- [00:22:00.990]they will look at me and say, "Who are you?"
- [00:22:03.000]What are you doing here? What are you doing?
- [00:22:04.260]And what could you do here?
- [00:22:05.280]Yes. And how can you be helpful to us?
- [00:22:08.280]Do you know anything? And all of that.
- [00:22:10.070](Nick laughing) Do you know things?
- [00:22:12.270]Yeah, I don't know that I do once I move to another state.
- [00:22:15.120]So these are the things that are very, very much
- [00:22:20.640]as part of that cost of moving.
- [00:22:23.220]You have to reestablish not all,
- [00:22:26.250]but many of your research connections
- [00:22:30.540]and ways of thinking and also knowing
- [00:22:33.480]how an institution works.
- [00:22:36.270]All of these inner workings.
- [00:22:37.920]I've been here 23 years, I know how most of it works.
- [00:22:41.190]And so I can find my way quickly.
- [00:22:43.800]You go to a new place and you don't know all
- [00:22:46.710]of these things, so you've gotta relearn them.
- [00:22:48.570]Now, it doesn't mean you shouldn't go,
- [00:22:50.820]but it is a consideration as you think about the spreadsheet
- [00:22:54.930]with the pluses and minuses. Oh yeah.
- [00:22:56.400]I mean, just be prepared to go back to I know nothing again,
- [00:23:00.570]and then ride that wave for about three-ish years.
- [00:23:04.410]But then you have to start knowing things
- [00:23:06.060]about the system that you're working in.
- [00:23:07.920]Yes, and one of the things that I would always advise
- [00:23:10.830]if you do decide to make that move.
- [00:23:12.480]Stop expecting it to work like your old institution
- [00:23:15.030]or to give the speech about,
- [00:23:16.627]"In my old institution it worked that way
- [00:23:19.057]"and I'm still expecting it."
- [00:23:20.490]It's not going to be like that.
- [00:23:22.947]I'm thinking about specific people that have moved, came
- [00:23:27.240]and completely always talked about
- [00:23:30.840]how it used to be in their old institution.
- [00:23:32.850]And it's like, well yeah, that's not helpful.
- [00:23:36.330]Yeah. I mean, yes, not helpful.
- [00:23:39.180]Thank you for not kicking me under the table
- [00:23:40.890]because I do believe I might have said that once or twice.
- [00:23:43.290]Once or twice is fine.
- [00:23:44.700]But five years or as you said, three or four years
- [00:23:47.640]after you're in a new institution,
- [00:23:49.110]you should not be saying that anymore.
- [00:23:50.850]Right. You shouldn't be saying that anymore.
- [00:23:52.140]And I think it's different if it's one institution
- [00:23:53.970]versus having been at several where you can see patterns.
- [00:23:56.580]Yes. There's wisdom. So, that's my...
- [00:24:00.030]It's something, I don't know if it's wisdom Guy.
- [00:24:02.690](Guy laughing) I don't know if it's wisdom.
- [00:24:05.550]Maybe it's accumulated trauma.
- [00:24:07.320]Okay. Possibly.
- [00:24:08.880]So speaking of accumulated trauma,
- [00:24:12.750]as you're thinking about potentially switching institutions,
- [00:24:15.390]you wanna start with this idea of really interrogating
- [00:24:18.990]the reasons why you're feeling that itch to leave.
- [00:24:22.470]You're going to want to think through like we talked about,
- [00:24:26.280]is it the workplace culture
- [00:24:28.710]or is it a lack of boundaries on your own behalf?
- [00:24:33.240]And then thinking about are you ready
- [00:24:36.330]to actually engage in that kind of work and
- [00:24:42.150]the work that it's going to be both mentally and--
- [00:24:46.320]Emotionally. Like logistically.
- [00:24:50.130]So we've got a brand new blog,
- [00:24:54.480]Not That Kind of Blog at notthatkindofdoctor.net
- [00:24:58.170]where we've conveyed all of this
- [00:25:02.340]in a handy dandy decision tree infographic.
- [00:25:04.600]So if this is something that you are thinking about,
- [00:25:08.130]head on over to the blog and download.
- [00:25:11.430]And if you are just wondering, head on over to the blog
- [00:25:14.130]and download because it'll help you think through it.
- [00:25:17.160]Sometimes you are more ready than you think.
- [00:25:19.920]So, you are not exhausted.
- [00:25:22.350]But thinking about the opportunity will actually help
- [00:25:25.440]you think about, "Oh, I love the place I'm at.
- [00:25:28.267]"I don't want to leave."
- [00:25:29.730]Or, "Hmm, that makes me think about whether
- [00:25:33.817]"there might be a better opportunity somewhere out there."
- [00:25:36.180]Or, and this is kind of where I'm at,
- [00:25:39.930]there are things that I love about my job,
- [00:25:41.430]there are things that I don't love about my job.
- [00:25:43.260]What am I willing to settle on
- [00:25:44.850]and what can I do in order to make my job more tolerable?
- [00:25:50.220]Because really that's what I'm looking for.
- [00:25:51.780]I don't need to love my job.
- [00:25:54.300]Okay. I don't.
- [00:25:56.100]I have hobbies. (Guy laughing)
- [00:25:58.500]I don't, so.
- [00:26:00.448]So, I'm trying to get him to get hobbies.
- [00:26:03.750]Learn to crochet.
- [00:26:06.570]I'll think about.
- [00:26:07.410]I don't know if crocheting is really my speed, but yes--
- [00:26:10.350]It can be as fast as you want.
- [00:26:11.790]It depends on how fast your hands can move, Guy.
- [00:26:14.790]My speed was on the slow side, not on how fast--
- [00:26:17.910]It can be as slow as you want as well, but get a hobby.
- [00:26:23.520]Because yes, it is a job.
- [00:26:26.280]And academia can sometimes be
- [00:26:31.260]this crazy chaotic machine, but,
- [00:26:38.580]you can leave a position. Yes.
- [00:26:40.890]You can leave a position
- [00:26:42.600]and you don't want to stay too long.
- [00:26:47.610]Because it gets harder to leave
- [00:26:49.770]and the calculus changes a little bit.
- [00:26:51.900]So if, again, going back to the toxicity
- [00:26:54.300]and everything around that, if you are feeling that,
- [00:26:56.910]investigate it early and make the move
- [00:27:01.200]or start looking for opportunities
- [00:27:03.000]because there's a gap between making a decision
- [00:27:06.000]that I might need to be looking for a better place
- [00:27:10.890]than getting to the place that wants you.
- [00:27:14.190]There's a gap there.
- [00:27:15.023]And we talked about finding the job and all of that,
- [00:27:18.150]and we'll go back to that.
- [00:27:19.860]But you want to be on it early
- [00:27:25.260]because it might strengthen your decision to stay
- [00:27:28.020]and then you don't have to constantly think about it.
- [00:27:30.510]And it might strengthen your decision for,
- [00:27:32.850]it's time to pack and start planning a move.
- [00:27:35.340]And that's great too
- [00:27:36.720]because move two times did not move, at least not yet.
- [00:27:41.550]And so there are lots of versions of this
- [00:27:46.770]that work. There are.
- [00:27:47.970]And one last quick thing is there is a mythology around,
- [00:27:53.100]oh, if you're an assistant professor, it's easier
- [00:27:54.720]to move than it is if you're an associate.
- [00:27:57.420]It's harder if you're a full, I think.
- [00:27:59.080]Yeah, it's very hard because very few places are looking
- [00:28:01.830]for full professors, but that's not here nor there.
- [00:28:04.860]But it is possible if you are an associate,
- [00:28:08.490]you can make the decision to go back
- [00:28:09.720]to an assistant kind of level.
- [00:28:11.130]Or there's oftentimes, I've seen a lot
- [00:28:13.590]of associate assistant positions,
- [00:28:15.720]so there's some flexibility there.
- [00:28:17.010]So keep that in mind. But whew.
- [00:28:22.110]All right, that's it for today. I think.
- [00:28:25.770]I think we've covered a lot.
- [00:28:26.880]We have wrestled with the decision
- [00:28:29.310]of whether to stay or to go.
- [00:28:31.920]You've got options
- [00:28:33.150]and you don't have to make the decision alone.
- [00:28:36.030]We've uploaded that decision tree.
- [00:28:37.800]Go download it at Not That Kind of Blog.
- [00:28:40.680]It won't make the decision for you,
- [00:28:43.950]but it helps with some structure,
- [00:28:45.510]it helps with some processes
- [00:28:48.240]in order to work your way through this decision process.
- [00:28:52.020]All right. We'll see you next time.
- [00:28:57.450]And just a quick reminder,
- [00:28:59.640]if you haven't already grabbed it,
- [00:29:01.200]we have a free workbook also on...
- [00:29:04.860]Also-- On Not That Kind Of Blog.
- [00:29:08.580]New format, folks.
- [00:29:11.340]We have a new workbook, "Tenure Without Losing Your Mind"
- [00:29:16.380]on Not That Kind Of Blog.
- [00:29:17.970]We've pulled together the best of the information
- [00:29:20.820]that we know about the tenure process
- [00:29:23.670]and how to work through it without making yourself crazy.
- [00:29:27.690]It's meant to be a tool that you use over five years.
- [00:29:31.470]It's 48 pages of, if I dare say brilliance.
- [00:29:37.830]Maybe not brilliance, but hopefully it's pragmatic
- [00:29:41.160]and helpful-- And organized.
- [00:29:43.980]And yes. And makes the process a little less crazy.
- [00:29:51.300]So whether you're just getting started
- [00:29:53.520]or in the thick of tenure, go to the blog,
- [00:29:56.460]download it, hold onto it, use it or not.
- [00:29:59.820]It's up to you.
- [00:30:01.020]But with that, I think now we're done.
- [00:30:04.890]We're done. Yeah. So, we'll see you
- [00:30:07.470]in two weeks where we're gonna talk technology.
- [00:30:10.530]Yeah.
- [00:30:11.596](synth piano music)
The screen size you are trying to search captions on is too small!
You can always jump over to MediaHub and check it out there.
Log in to post comments
Embed
Copy the following code into your page
HTML
<div style="padding-top: 56.25%; overflow: hidden; position:relative; -webkit-box-flex: 1; flex-grow: 1;"> <iframe style="bottom: 0; left: 0; position: absolute; right: 0; top: 0; border: 0; height: 100%; width: 100%;" src="https://mediahub.unl.edu/media/23329?format=iframe&autoplay=0" title="Video Player: Not That Kind of Doctor - Academic Crossroads: Should You Move to a New Institution?" allowfullscreen ></iframe> </div>
Comments
0 Comments