Human Fad Diets and Their Effect on Horse Nutrition

Kathy Anderson Author

08/28/2024 Added

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[00:00:00.000]Well, hello everybody. Sorry about that little technical difficulty, but as Dr. Anderson said,
[00:00:05.600]I'm Carrie Williams. I'm on the East Coast at Rutgers University in New Jersey, and my talk
[00:00:11.220]today is on human diet fads and how they have their effect on horse nutrition. So what we're
[00:00:20.300]going to start with is just a snippet of five or six different things that have come up
[00:00:29.860]in my 15 years or 14 years of being here at Rutgers, both from horse owners, from different
[00:00:37.740]public supplement companies, feed companies that I've worked with, and just various things
[00:00:44.320]that have come up throughout the last couple years.
[00:00:46.840]So the first one I would like to start with is the famous no-carb diet, which is probably
[00:00:55.880]the first one I ended up hearing when I was at Rutgers.
[00:00:59.720]Hopefully many of you out there are starting to think, well, I don't really know that that's
[00:01:03.820]possible if there's a no-carb diet for horses, because you would be correct.
[00:01:07.880]So over the last few years, a lot of the questions have turned to low-carb diet instead of no-carb
[00:01:14.960]diet.
[00:01:15.300]So that's a low-carb here.
[00:01:17.140]Because our forages and our fibers are carbohydrates.
[00:01:23.100]So obviously the majority of their diet is forage.
[00:01:29.580]You have the grains or the starch.
[00:01:31.500]So some people might mean no-starch diets or low-starch or even now so more of the restricted
[00:01:39.640]starch diets, which mean no molasses, no corn or low corn in the diet.
[00:01:46.100]Sometimes you'll hear it less corn.
[00:01:48.060]That just means no corn.
[00:01:49.740]And it's replacing these grains with other high-fiber ingredients.
[00:01:54.120]So before I really get into the whole carbohydrate conundrum,
[00:01:59.440]I just want to give a little bit of information on the dietary carbohydrates
[00:02:03.700]and break it down so that everybody's on the same page.
[00:02:07.160]So when we're talking about starch here,
[00:02:09.980]that's an enzymatic breakdown of a long string of glucoses.
[00:02:15.160]So starch is just a bunch of different glucoses all pushed together.
[00:02:19.480]So they can be broken down very, very easily.
[00:02:22.300]And that happens in the small intestine.
[00:02:24.600]And then we have ethanol-soluble carbohydrates.
[00:02:27.360]And these are easily termed
[00:02:29.300]just sugars.
[00:02:30.180]There are glucoses, there are fructoses, there are sucroses, etc.
[00:02:33.580]And they're all extracted by an 80% ethanol solution.
[00:02:37.400]And then we have fructans.
[00:02:39.940]Fructans are similar to starch,
[00:02:42.800]but a chain of fructoses.
[00:02:44.740]So it's simple sugars that are enzymatically cleaved.
[00:02:48.140]And they're not necessarily able to be taken care of completely
[00:02:53.440]in the small intestine.
[00:02:54.600]So some will be taken care of also in the large intestine.
[00:02:59.160]And then we have water-soluble carbohydrates.
[00:03:01.260]And this is just combining your ESC plus your fructans.
[00:03:05.340]And then your NSC, which is your starch plus your water-soluble carbohydrates.
[00:03:10.900]And this is the terminology that a lot of people, I think,
[00:03:13.900]are most familiar with because it's what a lot of the feed companies use.
[00:03:17.300]NSC, non-structural carbohydrates, or starch plus your sugars plus your fructans.
[00:03:25.060]So most loci.
[00:03:29.020]Low sugar, low starch diets, you know, are appropriate only for some horses.
[00:03:34.120]And I'm going to give a couple examples where some horses might be necessary
[00:03:39.520]and in other cases where it might not.
[00:03:41.400]So, for example, this metabolically challenged horse
[00:03:45.280]or the horse with metabolic, equine metabolic syndrome or EMS.
[00:03:49.440]Some of these conditions will include insulin resistance,
[00:03:52.900]hyperinsulinemia, Cushing's, et cetera.
[00:03:56.020]So in this case,
[00:03:58.880]you might have one of these horses.
[00:04:00.660]And if you have,
[00:04:01.680]you probably have had your vet test them for their glucose and insulin
[00:04:05.720]using an oral glucose tolerance test or a dexamethasone suppression test,
[00:04:10.920]ACTH test, anything along those lines.
[00:04:14.120]And these should all be done before taking really drastic measures
[00:04:17.600]like adding drugs or things like that to the horse's routine.
[00:04:22.800]So if the horse needs some sort of low carbohydrate diet,
[00:04:28.740]but doesn't necessarily need a weight gain diet,
[00:04:33.080]the best way to do that is usually just to provide them with a good forage diet.
[00:04:39.240]If you can feed enough forage, like 2 to 2.5% of their body weight,
[00:04:43.460]so 20 to 25 pounds of forage, that's really usually pretty low.
[00:04:48.660]We'll talk a little bit about haze and stuff, but not really.
[00:04:52.940]If you really want to know exactly how much sugars or starches are in the hay,
[00:04:56.940]you really need to get them tested.
[00:04:58.600]There's no way to visually observe or guess at how much is in there.
[00:05:03.320]Typically, most of the haze are going to be somewhere around 10% to 15%.
[00:05:10.540]That target level should be about 10% of the diet.
[00:05:14.660]If you have horses with insulin resistance, without obesity, this is the way to do it.
[00:05:21.280]If you need to manage their weight, if they're starting to lose weight,
[00:05:28.460]they need a little bit of supplement, they might need a little bit of grain,
[00:05:31.100]adding some fat supplements to the diet is the best way to do it
[00:05:34.880]because it won't significantly affect their insulin sensitivity at all.
[00:05:39.260]Some of these fat supplements can be added to about 20% of the diet,
[00:05:44.720]which is actually quite high if you're thinking of adding that much in terms of corn or corn oil,
[00:05:51.900]I'm sorry, or an oil or rice bran, something like that.
[00:05:58.320]So some other times where some horses might actually need a low starch or restricted starch diet
[00:06:06.900]are horses, competition horses that have chronic tying up or recurrent exertional rhabdomyolysis.
[00:06:13.640]These horses, there's been a lot of studies done that show, that have proved that the best way to manage these horses
[00:06:20.660]is on low sugar, low starch diets.
[00:06:23.060]So they're actually specifically formulated diets to use a very high level of fat
[00:06:28.180]that is used for their energy sources instead of the soluble carbohydrates.
[00:06:32.580]They also use a mixture of what's called rapidly fermentable carbohydrates,
[00:06:37.160]and some of these are things like beet pulp.
[00:06:39.640]But as I really want to point out, because I don't want to make everybody think that all horses should have low starch diets,
[00:06:48.500]really not all horses need low starch diets.
[00:06:52.120]There are that intensely exercising horses, you know, competition horses that really,
[00:06:58.120]that really need low starch diets.
[00:06:58.160]They actually should have soluble carbohydrates.
[00:07:01.220]They actually need a lot of their calories to come from these soluble carbohydrates.
[00:07:05.820]So starch in their diet is actually not a bad word.
[00:07:09.640]They need it to help replenish the muscle glycogen that they're using on a daily basis for their training.
[00:07:15.880]And because horses do lack a gallbladder, they actually can't consume enough fat
[00:07:22.020]to completely sustain their energy level through exercise, especially at the peak,
[00:07:28.140]of their level of training.
[00:07:29.240]So what about this non-equine metabolic syndrome horse that typically tends to get hot,
[00:07:37.280]like this little picture down here in the corner, on high NSC or non-structural carbohydrate diets?
[00:07:44.160]So anything that might contain some corn or have a lot of starch,
[00:07:47.500]it's really rapidly broken down and used for energy.
[00:07:50.160]And that's where we tend to get that impression of a hot horse,
[00:07:54.240]or that is why corn is considered a hot feed.
[00:07:58.120]It's just not because of the temperature that it produces,
[00:08:00.780]but in terms of the energy level that it produces.
[00:08:03.460]So some horses are actually more sensitive to this excessive energy than others.
[00:08:09.960]It'll manifest in bucking, kicking, spooking, or just being generally more excitable.
[00:08:15.600]So in this case, you'd probably want to treat them more like the metabolic syndrome horse.
[00:08:19.800]Look for some of these low-starch diets, things that have a higher level of fat,
[00:08:23.920]or a higher level of these rapidly fermentable carbohydrates,
[00:08:28.100]like the beet pulp, even soy hulls, things like that,
[00:08:32.300]along with the fat are really good for these types of horses.
[00:08:35.420]So I'm moving right along into my second diet fad,
[00:08:41.520]and that really comes from the human supplement market,
[00:08:45.120]because a lot of human dieticians and just humans that look at their diets,
[00:08:51.160]they want that magic pill, they want that magic supplement.
[00:08:53.720]And, you know, if receiving a well-balanced diet really,
[00:08:58.080]horses shouldn't need anything extra, and I say shouldn't,
[00:09:01.880]because there are some cases that I'm going to go through
[00:09:04.000]when a supplement might actually be necessary.
[00:09:06.380]And some of these are things like exertional rhabdomyolysis,
[00:09:11.540]which I just mentioned, horses that tie up frequently.
[00:09:14.300]Vitamin E has actually been proven to be a supplement that could potentially be necessary,
[00:09:19.180]because in a lot of these horses, vitamin E is found in low levels in their systems,
[00:09:24.580]and vitamin E is also found in very low levels in hay.
[00:09:28.060]So if you pick a supplement that has between 2,500 and 5,000 IU per day,
[00:09:33.560]it can reduce the level of muscle membrane leakage of the enzymes like creatine kinase
[00:09:40.480]and the spartate amino transferase that leak out into the system during times like this.
[00:09:45.600]But you do want to make sure that it's a pure vitamin E supplement,
[00:09:49.460]because if they are combined with selenium and you start adding two, three, four scoops,
[00:09:54.680]you could get to that upper limit.
[00:09:58.040]So that's the benefit of selenium in the diet.
[00:09:59.580]And really, does synthetic or natural matter, you know,
[00:10:03.400]in all the research that I've done in past years,
[00:10:05.780]we've used the synthetic form versus the natural form.
[00:10:10.760]It just depends on how much you want to pay and how much you want to reuse.
[00:10:14.400]I mean, yeah, the natural form is, you know, absorbed about twice as well,
[00:10:19.460]but usually you're feeding half as much.
[00:10:21.300]So, you know, in terms of dollars and cents, they seem to work out about the same.
[00:10:28.020]What electrolytes?
[00:10:28.900]You know, I've heard a lot of people say, well, you know, it's getting to be really warm out
[00:10:34.040]and it's starting to be summer, so I'm going to feed my horses electrolytes every day.
[00:10:39.660]And then I ask them, well, are you really working really intensely every day?
[00:10:44.540]Like some horses might.
[00:10:45.760]Some of the, you know, either combined or eventing horses or racehorses
[00:10:53.220]or something might actually train really hard once a day.
[00:10:55.620]But, you know, for the most part,
[00:10:58.000]most of them aren't.
[00:10:59.340]So really horses only need electrolytes when they're sweating.
[00:11:03.240]So, again, if they sweat every day, fine.
[00:11:05.440]But if you give daily supplementation to the electrolytes
[00:11:08.320]and they don't need it or they're not losing them,
[00:11:11.100]you're actually going to do more harm than good
[00:11:12.800]because you're going to throw off this natural balance.
[00:11:14.940]Things like your sodium, chloride, potassium, magnesium, calcium, et cetera,
[00:11:21.340]are some of these electrolytes.
[00:11:22.520]Now, if you are going to go to the store and buy an electrolyte,
[00:11:26.000]keep in mind,
[00:11:27.980]we're not all created equal.
[00:11:29.280]So it's good to be an educated buyer.
[00:11:31.680]Read your labels.
[00:11:33.320]Think about what you're buying.
[00:11:34.540]Our electrolytes are not the same as our horses.
[00:11:37.200]So we drink Gatorade to replenish our electrolytes.
[00:11:40.840]It's not going to work in horses because that number one ingredient is
[00:11:44.580]glucose,
[00:11:45.400]fructose,
[00:11:46.960]one of the sugars.
[00:11:47.740]If it has a sugar as the first ingredient for our horses,
[00:11:52.100]it's not going to do a thing.
[00:11:53.840]Really,
[00:11:54.440]our horses need salt or sodium chloride as the number one ingredient.
[00:11:57.960]Because if you look at this horse down in the corner,
[00:12:00.060]you can see all of the white sweat that's called lather in the sweat.
[00:12:04.560]They also have very high protein in their sweat.
[00:12:07.420]It's a protein called latherin,
[00:12:09.360]and that's what makes them get lathered up.
[00:12:12.160]But they have a much more concentrated sweat than we do.
[00:12:15.040]Joint supplements,
[00:12:18.200]they tend to be a big one.
[00:12:19.920]I'm not going to say that it's necessary for horses,
[00:12:22.360]but there has been studies that have shown if horses do actually have
[00:12:27.940]an osteoarthritis,
[00:12:31.240]then it could potentially be good.
[00:12:34.440]Some of the glucosamine,
[00:12:34.940]chondroitin,
[00:12:36.020]sulfate,
[00:12:36.680]there's a lot of other products.
[00:12:38.660]The avocado saponifiables or ASU,
[00:12:43.940]vitamin C,
[00:12:46.320]magnesium,
[00:12:46.860]yucca,
[00:12:47.360]et cetera,
[00:12:47.860]hyaluronic acid.
[00:12:49.020]Some of these products do work in some of the horses that have been shown
[00:12:53.560]to have a problem.
[00:12:54.360]However,
[00:12:55.320]really important to note,
[00:12:56.440]some horses are what's called non-acid.
[00:12:57.920]Non-responders.
[00:12:59.020]And these non-responders,
[00:13:01.020]it means that they might have these conditions,
[00:13:03.920]but they're not going to respond to some of the supplements that other
[00:13:07.220]horses will.
[00:13:07.900]So,
[00:13:08.760]you know,
[00:13:09.460]give it,
[00:13:09.880]give it a month or two,
[00:13:10.960]you know,
[00:13:11.320]buy a supplement.
[00:13:12.140]If you don't feel it works,
[00:13:13.720]if there's no physical evidence of it working,
[00:13:16.520]don't waste your money.
[00:13:18.140]So what about hoof supplements?
[00:13:22.680]I hear people say they've tried them and they don't work.
[00:13:26.160]And then my question to them is,
[00:13:27.900]well, do you know the underlying reason
[00:13:30.760]for why your horses have bad hooves,
[00:13:33.000]like this hoof down in the corner?
[00:13:34.280]So is there a reason why that hoof looks like that?
[00:13:37.260]Is it environmental or is it diet?
[00:13:39.100]If it's environmental, there's nothing you can do to the diet
[00:13:41.640]that's going to make it help.
[00:13:42.700]But if there is something in the diet that's missing,
[00:13:45.640]then some of these hoof supplements might be good.
[00:13:48.360]Iotin has actually been proven to be one of the things
[00:13:52.080]that's needed for the production of keratin.
[00:13:54.200]And hoof supplements should have about 20 milligrams
[00:13:57.880]per day.
[00:13:58.820]Iodine also at about one milligram per day.
[00:14:02.460]It's essential for the thyroid hormones,
[00:14:04.860]which actually help develop all the tissues.
[00:14:06.860]Methionine, while they don't necessarily know the level,
[00:14:10.340]it is responsible for a lot of keratin production in the hoof.
[00:14:13.360]So it's usually in some of the hoof supplements.
[00:14:15.600]And then zinc.
[00:14:17.220]Zinc at about 175 to 250 milligrams per day
[00:14:20.480]also contributes to hoof health.
[00:14:22.120]So if it could be a dietary issue as to why the hoof is poor,
[00:14:26.760]some of these supplements might be good.
[00:14:27.860]Some of these supplements could help.
[00:14:28.980]But you have to ask yourself,
[00:14:31.140]how long does it take for the hoof to grow
[00:14:34.120]from the coronary band all the way down?
[00:14:36.480]You know, it's about eight months to maybe even a year
[00:14:40.840]if the hoof grows very slow.
[00:14:42.180]So you're going to need to leave these horses
[00:14:44.420]on these supplements for about a year
[00:14:46.240]in order to see any effects.
[00:14:47.440]So there's a lot of other supplements out there,
[00:14:52.700]and I'm not going to go through all of them
[00:14:54.220]because a lot of them really haven't had the research done
[00:14:57.840]on them to show whether they're effective or not.
[00:15:00.980]Things like calming aids or digestive products,
[00:15:03.940]immune stimulators, co-conditioners,
[00:15:05.980]muscle builders, you name it.
[00:15:07.360]There's just a bunch of pictures I pulled offline down below.
[00:15:10.760]I'm not saying that they don't work,
[00:15:12.420]but there's just not a whole lot of research done on a lot of these.
[00:15:16.640]So if you're going to try it, use it for several months,
[00:15:19.940]but if you don't feel it's working,
[00:15:21.860]my recommendation to you is don't waste your money.
[00:15:27.820]Speaking of supplements, I know omega-3 fatty acids
[00:15:30.660]is a really popular supplement out there now,
[00:15:33.200]and when adding fat to the diet, we always want to stress,
[00:15:36.580]add the omega-3s and not the omega-6s,
[00:15:39.260]because omega-6s are going to be detrimental.
[00:15:42.140]They're going to cause inflammation.
[00:15:43.380]It's going to be really bad, just like it is for humans.
[00:15:46.040]So humans have translated that from their own diets,
[00:15:49.400]and our human recommendation of an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of 10 to 1,
[00:15:55.740]therefore, is what our horses need.
[00:15:58.140]Well, I'm going to take the next couple of slides,
[00:16:00.640]and I'm going to explain to you why this might not be as much of an issue
[00:16:04.060]for our horses as it is for us.
[00:16:05.980]So in horses, there really are no bad fatty acids.
[00:16:12.000]So horses do require a dietary source of both the linoleic, which is omega-6,
[00:16:18.960]and the alpha-linolenic, which is our omega-3s,
[00:16:21.820]because they lack the dietary enzymes or the enzymes in their system to help
[00:16:27.680]them.
[00:16:27.780]So we want to help them synthesize some of these fatty acids.
[00:16:29.620]So really, any oil you use can be oxidized for energy and incorporated into
[00:16:35.980]the cell membranes.
[00:16:36.720]Really, that's why we're feeding the fatty acids.
[00:16:39.440]However, I know there are some oils that are considered better than others.
[00:16:44.360]So let's take, for instance, corn oil and vegetable oils.
[00:16:48.460]Okay, yeah, they're high in omega-6s.
[00:16:50.840]So, yeah, they possibly can contribute to an increase in inflammation.
[00:16:57.760]And possibly reduce cellular immunity.
[00:17:00.180]I know a lot of these studies have been done in humans.
[00:17:02.580]Not as many of these studies have been done in horses
[00:17:05.560]to show whether or not the omega-6s really are detrimental.
[00:17:09.040]So with humans, yes, eating fish is healthy because it's high in omega-3s.
[00:17:16.340]But that's also true for flaxseed or linseed.
[00:17:19.280]And these are things that we feed our horses.
[00:17:21.220]But here's the important kicker here.
[00:17:24.520]What a lot of horse people don't realize,
[00:17:27.740]is that pasture grasses actually have a similar ratio
[00:17:31.620]of omega-6 to omega-3 as flaxseed.
[00:17:35.760]I'll let that sit for a little bit.
[00:17:38.720]So if you take the amount of omega-3 fatty acids
[00:17:43.260]in two to three cups of flaxseed,
[00:17:45.520]it actually equals the same amount of omega-3 fatty acids
[00:17:49.420]in 22 pounds of grass hay.
[00:17:51.200]And that should be the amount of hay fed to, say,
[00:17:55.200]a maintenance horse that needs 100%
[00:17:57.720]of its diet coming from hay.
[00:17:59.140]That's about what they'd be getting.
[00:18:00.440]So it's equal there.
[00:18:01.560]So forage-only diets and their omega-6 to omega-3 ratio
[00:18:06.000]is about 0.3 to 0.6 to 1.
[00:18:09.860]If you're going to add a concentrate in there
[00:18:12.580]because they're exercising
[00:18:13.600]or they need some high-fat concentrate,
[00:18:15.580]usually that fat comes from either rice bran or oil,
[00:18:19.660]then your ratio is about an 8 to 1 ratio.
[00:18:22.660]That's omega-6 to omega-3.
[00:18:24.100]So I just mentioned that the recommendations in humans
[00:18:27.700]are 10 to 1 or less than 10 to 1.
[00:18:29.740]But really, there's nothing that's been shown or proven
[00:18:33.320]in what the recommended levels of omega-6 to omega-3 is in horses.
[00:18:37.400]So we really have no idea.
[00:18:38.880]And that's because there's so much conflicting research out there.
[00:18:42.320]Does it really cause inflammation if you have too high of omega-6s?
[00:18:46.860]What about the different oils to insulin-resistant horses?
[00:18:51.000]Some people think that the omega-6s is going to really cause
[00:18:54.800]a lot higher level of insulin resistance.
[00:18:57.680]There's really been no solid research on that.
[00:18:59.620]Enhanced cellular immunity, et cetera.
[00:19:02.420]There really isn't anything definitive.
[00:19:04.800]So what are my recommendations then as a nutritionist?
[00:19:08.320]Horses on a poor quality forage diet.
[00:19:11.180]So ones that might need a little bit more energy to maintain its weight
[00:19:15.260]but aren't really getting it from their forage.
[00:19:17.140]They might need a fat supplement to last them through the winter
[00:19:20.760]or to help with their exercise training.
[00:19:23.440]You might want to then consider feeding them a flaxseed, which is a
[00:19:27.660]0.26 to 1, or a fish oil, which is a 0.13 to 1.
[00:19:33.540]So then it might be a good idea.
[00:19:35.400]However, if you have horses that are on pasture or that are on a really
[00:19:39.360]good quality forage and already have a low ratio of omega-6 to omega-3,
[00:19:45.540]then spending a lot of money on some of these high omega-3 supplements
[00:19:49.860]might not be worth it.
[00:19:51.080]And you might just want to consider going with a rice bran at 19 to 1
[00:19:55.060]or a soybean at 7 to 1 versus, of course,
[00:19:57.640]a corn oil at 53 to 1.
[00:19:59.740]Or, again, if they're on high pasture levels,
[00:20:02.340]it just might not matter.
[00:20:03.300]So I am going to give fad number four one slide.
[00:20:10.020]And we're going to go through it pretty quickly
[00:20:11.760]because I can talk for two hours on this subject about holistic remedies.
[00:20:16.300]So many people now are getting the herbal supplements here and there,
[00:20:21.380]and they're really doing a lot of holistic diets.
[00:20:23.640]So if you translate them to horses, there are a few concerns.
[00:20:28.340]And the first concern is that some parts of these herbal plants
[00:20:32.040]or these herbal products are actually toxic to horses.
[00:20:34.880]Take things like horsetail.
[00:20:37.200]Horsetail is toxic.
[00:20:38.960]It causes weight loss, diarrhea, some nervous conditions,
[00:20:42.560]and even lack of coordination.
[00:20:43.820]So if it were me, I wouldn't want horsetail in any product I'm feeding my horses.
[00:20:48.120]Some have a negative interaction with other dietary products and medications,
[00:20:52.880]so it's really important to consult with your veterinarian when your horse is on both an herbal,
[00:20:57.600]product, and some medications.
[00:20:58.640]Now some of these substances are actually on the banned substance list,
[00:21:04.400]or some show organizations erasing circuits.
[00:21:07.320]So you really want to check with whatever your show circuit is if you are showing,
[00:21:11.740]especially things like valerian or valerian root.
[00:21:15.460]Here's a picture of it here.
[00:21:16.760]It's typically in a lot of calming supplements, and it is very effective.
[00:21:21.260]They've actually shown that it has the same or similar benzoin,
[00:21:27.580]benefits or detriments, however you want to look at it,
[00:21:31.180]as phenobarbital in some situations.
[00:21:34.060]So really pretty effective there.
[00:21:36.420]And first and foremost, I think research should be done on horses
[00:21:42.700]and not on humans and lab animals.
[00:21:44.960]And there's really very few horse research projects that have been done.
[00:21:49.920]There is some on echinacea.
[00:21:51.320]There's one on garlic.
[00:21:52.280]And a lot of them are just kind of polyherbal products
[00:21:55.180]that were paid for by companies
[00:21:57.560]to test their product.
[00:21:58.660]So there's really not a whole lot out there.
[00:22:00.600]I did produce an article that gave a summary of a lot of this.
[00:22:06.180]That was in 2008 in the Veterinary Journal.
[00:22:08.580]If anyone is interested, you can email me
[00:22:10.780]and I'll send you that full journal article
[00:22:12.780]about some of the herbal products in horses.
[00:22:14.760]Kind of along the same line,
[00:22:17.800]but I'm going to spend a little bit more time here on natural diets.
[00:22:20.880]So humans like, you know, the whole grain,
[00:22:24.020]homemade, muesli mixes,
[00:22:27.540]food processing, very whole food diets.
[00:22:31.420]So now if you're going to do this for your horses,
[00:22:34.880]there are some benefits.
[00:22:36.340]If you have one of these horses that does seem to have a lot of allergic reactions,
[00:22:41.000]you can do more elimination diets
[00:22:44.000]and you can figure out exactly what they're allergic to.
[00:22:46.200]You know, you can feed all one grain or you can take out and feed all one hay
[00:22:49.660]and you can really find out what they might be allergic to.
[00:22:52.500]It also might be more economical if you are feeding a lot of horses
[00:22:57.520]in bulk.
[00:22:58.480]If you only have two, three, or even four horses,
[00:23:00.980]it just might not be economical enough.
[00:23:03.220]But if you have large barns and you can get a bulk mix,
[00:23:05.980]this might be the way to go.
[00:23:07.340]However, there are so many complex considerations that go behind balancing a diet.
[00:23:12.800]There are so many different interactions with all of the minerals and the vitamins
[00:23:18.200]and it just, you really need a paid nutritionist to really balance your diet.
[00:23:23.860]So it can get kind of complicated.
[00:23:27.500]However, I am going to go through the next couple slides where some processing may or
[00:23:31.940]may not be necessary in some of these whole grain diets.
[00:23:35.000]So first I want to say that really the true way to do an all natural diet, and you can
[00:23:41.540]see the theme here in my talk, is just go with a high quality forage.
[00:23:46.280]I'm such a good component, proponent of forage.
[00:23:51.280]High quality forage fed at two to two and a half percent of the body weight for those
[00:23:55.400]horses that are easy keepers.
[00:23:57.480]That would be all that's necessary, especially in terms of pasture.
[00:24:01.700]However, if the horse is exercising or a hard keeper, it might be necessary to feed
[00:24:07.400]some extra calories.
[00:24:08.320]If you truly want an unprocessed grain to go in the diet, oats is the way to go.
[00:24:15.280]When we're talking about oats, it's the most common cereal grain fed to horses.
[00:24:20.860]Processing does not increase digestibility.
[00:24:24.200]Some people think it does because they see,
[00:24:27.460]oh, it's in the feces, but it's not the actual oats.
[00:24:30.680]It's the hull of the oats.
[00:24:32.140]And yes, oat hulls does have some indigestibility.
[00:24:37.720]It's not a whole lot, but it's just the really plant component, the plant cell wall of the grain.
[00:24:46.520]It's higher in fiber than most grains and lower in sugar and starches, so it really has a nice profile for horses.
[00:24:52.720]If some can't eat oats, then barley is actually shown to be a good grain for horses.
[00:24:58.980]It's a little higher in starch and a little lower in fiber than oats, but it is much less than corn.
[00:25:04.800]However, it does require some sort of processing.
[00:25:07.700]The shell around the barley is really, really tough, and if it's fed, it is going to come right out the other end,
[00:25:16.280]so the horses can't properly digest it unless it's cracked or rolled or crimped or something.
[00:25:21.120]If your horse needs a higher level of protein in the diet, the best all-natural way to go is alfalfa.
[00:25:28.960]I particularly like alfalfa, at least when it's mixed.
[00:25:32.980]Say you feed some extra alfalfa.
[00:25:34.760]Cubes, if a horse isn't crazy about its grass hay, it provides extra protein and extra calcium.
[00:25:42.240]Really good for brood mares, foals, lactating mares as well.
[00:25:46.840]Soybean meal is also really high in protein, but does need to be processed.
[00:25:51.480]The meal needs to be stripped off of the grain because the whole soybeans actually contain a trypsin inhibitor
[00:25:59.540]that negates their protein value.
[00:26:01.720]They should at least be soaked if they're going to be.
[00:26:04.720]They should be cooked, but they could also be ground or, like I said,
[00:26:09.620]made into a meal where the soybean meal is stripped off of the grain.
[00:26:14.780]So what about some other high-fat ingredients?
[00:26:20.040]I've mentioned rice bran a few times.
[00:26:22.820]That's a really good one.
[00:26:24.740]That's actually my favorite one.
[00:26:26.140]It's very palatable.
[00:26:26.980]It's also really high in fiber.
[00:26:28.440]And it can actually help with some nice weight gain without having this high,
[00:26:34.680]high NSC diet component to it.
[00:26:36.820]So for the metabolic syndrome horse, it would be a nice way to add some calories.
[00:26:40.920]A 1,000-pound horse can get about a pound or two a day of rice bran.
[00:26:44.880]However, again, it needs to be processed somehow because the bran is just inside
[00:26:51.060]the hull of a rice hull, so it needs to be stripped off.
[00:26:54.240]It also needs to be what's called stabilized.
[00:26:56.780]Now, regular bran, wheat bran included, has very low levels of calcium.
[00:27:02.080]It's actually really high in phosphorus, so it's going to,
[00:27:04.640]disrupt that two-to-one calcium-to-phosphorus ratio that horses need.
[00:27:08.340]So, it needs to be stabilized.
[00:27:11.180]We add calcium to the rice bran.
[00:27:14.080]You also strip it from the shell.
[00:27:15.700]Unless, of course, you're feeding complete and total diet of a lot of alfalfa,
[00:27:21.480]then your calcium is fine.
[00:27:22.540]But not many people are feeding enough to really balance the diet that way.
[00:27:26.440]What else?
[00:27:28.840]Flax seeds I mentioned already.
[00:27:30.340]The raw seeds do contain a cyanogenic glycoside.
[00:27:35.220]Okay, that doesn't sound good, does it?
[00:27:36.880]Well, the good news is when the seeds go through the digestive system of the horse,
[00:27:42.500]the enzymes are actually going to inactivate the enzymes that are needed to release the cyanide.
[00:27:49.980]So feeding whole soybean or whole flax seeds is not an issue
[00:27:55.020]because our horses have gastric acid that basically denatures these enzymes.
[00:28:00.600]So it's fine.
[00:28:01.440]Just the problem is if you are going to boil,
[00:28:04.560]your flax seeds, it's okay, but don't soak them in water
[00:28:09.040]because any water, any moistening without the gastric acid
[00:28:13.360]is going to release the cyanide.
[00:28:15.000]So if you are going to use some ground flax seed,
[00:28:18.580]really be careful of its shelf life.
[00:28:21.480]It wouldn't have it on your shelf for more than probably two weeks
[00:28:24.880]because it is so high in fat, it can go rancid.
[00:28:28.140]Unless, of course, you're keeping it in the refrigerator,
[00:28:29.680]that'll help as well.
[00:28:30.600]Raw nuts have a lot of the same problems, so I get asked a lot
[00:28:34.520]of people around the holidays, you know, they start making
[00:28:37.120]treats for their horses and they want to use nuts.
[00:28:39.580]It's not a good idea because it's really similar to the raw soybeans.
[00:28:43.200]They shouldn't be fed in large quantities because they do also
[00:28:46.140]contain a toxin.
[00:28:47.180]What about garlic?
[00:28:50.840]Garlic is all natural, right?
[00:28:52.460]So it's believed to be an insecticide or a fly repellent,
[00:28:55.460]also has some anti-inflammatory properties.
[00:28:58.880]So a lot of people are feeding that to their horses.
[00:29:01.260]Well, high doses, so like garlic,
[00:29:04.480]garlic extracts have been discovered to cause Heinz body anemia in horses.
[00:29:10.060]So what that means is it actually deforms the red blood cells.
[00:29:13.920]So it decreases the oxygen carrying capacity.
[00:29:16.800]So if it gets severe enough,
[00:29:18.720]horses are going to have problems breathing and actually suffocation could
[00:29:22.940]be the end result if very severe.
[00:29:25.140]So horses that might be fed around 10 grams per day should be okay,
[00:29:30.020]but there's really not a whole lot known about the long-term effects or even
[00:29:34.440]the effectiveness of the garlic as an insect control.
[00:29:38.700]Salt. I do want to cover salt quickly.
[00:29:43.780]It should be added to every ration.
[00:29:46.220]Horse feed ingredients are all deficient in sodium chloride.
[00:29:50.320]So leave them a block, put some loose salt on top of their feed,
[00:29:54.080]or just leave it loose in a pan. They will regulate their salt intake.
[00:29:57.900]However, I've not seen any research that's been done in horses to show that
[00:30:01.980]any of these fancy salts like the Himalayan salt,
[00:30:04.400]or any of that is absorbed any differently in terms of its sodium chloride
[00:30:08.680]than just a regular old white salt block.
[00:30:11.160]So I know I didn't get too much into balancing of rations,
[00:30:15.560]but just kind of my take-home message here with this one is that, you know,
[00:30:19.040]the balancing rations is very complicated with all the vitamins and minerals
[00:30:22.460]that go into it.
[00:30:23.220]So that's why a lot of people just pay for the well-researched formulations
[00:30:26.780]in commercial horse feed instead of balancing their own
[00:30:30.200]or making their own whole grain diets.
[00:30:34.360]Kind of in closing, my last fad, number six, GMO versus non-GMO feeds.
[00:30:41.020]So let's start at the beginning and just get everybody on the same page
[00:30:44.640]as to what GMO or genetically modified organism is.
[00:30:48.860]Typically here we're talking about corn and soybeans.
[00:30:51.980]These are the two genetically modified plants that do make up a large portion
[00:30:56.740]of the horse feeds.
[00:30:57.720]And these two have been classified as GMO since 97.
[00:31:02.020]In 2011, U.S.
[00:31:04.320]DAs also approved alfalfa as a GMO product.
[00:31:08.300]So now GMO, what does it mean?
[00:31:11.820]It means the DNA in that plant has been altered in some way.
[00:31:16.580]So it will make these plants resist things like insects or herbicides
[00:31:21.700]or viruses, et cetera.
[00:31:23.100]So farmers use these plants because they want a higher yield.
[00:31:27.560]They want healthier plants, and it therefore gives them higher profits.
[00:31:30.780]So, for example, let's take alfalfa.
[00:31:34.280]It was grown.
[00:31:35.220]It would have, you know, well, before it was grown without the introduction
[00:31:40.740]of weeds because now we can make it have no weeds in the fields,
[00:31:44.580]there would be a weed called fiddleneck, which would actually grow in the alfalfa
[00:31:49.720]and could sometimes be baled in the alfalfa.
[00:31:52.200]Now, fiddleneck in horses can cause chronic liver failure and possible death.
[00:31:56.460]So now there's no fiddleneck in some of these fields because the alfalfa,
[00:32:04.240]is able to use the chemical herbicides to kill the weeds but yet not kill the alfalfa.
[00:32:10.480]So they're really making actually a much healthier alfalfa plant.
[00:32:15.160]Now, I know the public is really concerned about feeding the GMO to livestock,
[00:32:21.160]particularly like beef, poultry, pork, because therefore it could potentially have a carry
[00:32:26.680]over in the dairy or the meat products that we eat.
[00:32:29.080]Well, with horses, since we don't eat them, I think it's purely more of a health concern
[00:32:34.200]similar to what it is for us.
[00:32:36.500]We say, "I don't want GMO because I'm not sure what it's going to do."
[00:32:39.380]Well, it's the same with horses.
[00:32:40.720]Now, really the question becomes, has this really been validated in horses?
[00:32:46.100]Well, so far there's been no research that has actually shown that any of these feeds
[00:32:50.760]are dangerous if the GMO are consumed by the horses or even the livestock.
[00:32:55.180]Now, I'm not going to argue with or against any of these plants or the use of GMOs, but
[00:33:02.520]here are some other facts.
[00:33:04.160]It is virtually impossible to guarantee that a crop is totally non-GMO.
[00:33:10.560]Pollen from nearby GMO crops can actually spread miles across to other organic or non-GMO
[00:33:19.700]crop fields, so therefore it negates that.
[00:33:23.600]Some horse feed companies have actually started producing non-GMO feeds.
[00:33:27.640]There are some out there.
[00:33:28.640]They are very expensive, and they're not able to be completely organic.
[00:33:34.120]So it seems right now that with horse feeds, it's either one or the other.
[00:33:37.820]You can either get a non-GMO or get an organic, but they can't get them both right now.
[00:33:42.080]So a lot of the problems include the cost.
[00:33:45.200]Again, like I mentioned, it's really high and sometimes cost prohibitive.
[00:33:49.720]And again, they can't get it to be totally organic.
[00:33:52.680]Some GMO feeds have no significant differences in safety.
[00:33:57.640]So they've done a lot of safety, digestibility, nutritional value testing in the horse feed
[00:34:02.500]markets to see if there's any difference.
[00:34:04.080]And right now, there hasn't been.
[00:34:06.260]There have also been no residual recombinant DNA found in some of these animals that have
[00:34:13.160]been fed the GMO products.
[00:34:14.900]And really, none of this research has been done in horses.
[00:34:17.880]It's all been carried over from cattle, pigs, et cetera.
[00:34:23.020]So let me just summarize all six of my fads really quickly.
[00:34:26.540]Not all horses need low-carb diets or low-starch diets.
[00:34:30.100]And again, there's no such thing as a no-carb.
[00:34:32.340]So really look at your horse.
[00:34:34.040]What he's doing, what problems he might have, and is it really necessary?
[00:34:38.800]There are really no magic pills or magic supplements that are going to correct or cure all problems
[00:34:43.280]in horses.
[00:34:44.280]But there are some supplements that might be necessary if the diet might not be balanced.
[00:34:50.280]And because you would be the one getting the supplement, please just be an educated buyer
[00:34:55.120]and really read the labels before purchasing your products.
[00:34:59.080]Forage has a very high supply of omega-3 fatty acids.
[00:35:02.960]So the horses on good quality pasture or forage already have a good ratio and therefore the
[00:35:09.420]conundrum of feeding high 6 versus high 3 fatty acids might not be as much of an issue.
[00:35:16.660]Holistic supplements, they really need to be purchased with caution because there's
[00:35:19.480]very little research done.
[00:35:22.280]And whole grain or unprocessed diets are okay but might require the advice of a nutritionist
[00:35:27.200]to help balance the rest of the vitamins and minerals in the diet.
[00:35:31.880]And that in human nutrition, there are a lot of concerns about eating GMO products but
[00:35:36.540]there really hasn't been a whole lot of research that this has been done in horses and whether
[00:35:40.420]or not this should be a concern.
[00:35:44.520]So with that, I just want to wrap up everything.
[00:35:47.240]I'll turn it back over and I'll see if we have any questions.
[00:35:50.380]These are my two girls that are not on any GMO, unprocessed, holistic, low starch diets.
[00:35:58.080]All right, thank you very much.
[00:36:00.500]So, Terry and you guys that aren't here, just unmute yourselves if you've got some questions
[00:36:07.000]for Carrie and the guys here, throw them out if you've got some things to ask about or talk to her about.
[00:36:13.000]Yeah, Kathy, you might just have to repeat the question because I might not be able to hear them from the audience.
[00:36:19.000]Okay.
[00:36:25.000]She said that feeding a high starch diet, the cause would be,
[00:36:30.000]hyper for a period of time, if you feed two to three pounds of a high starch diet,
[00:36:35.500]how long does that last? Does that go up for two or three hours and come down?
[00:36:39.500]Or is that six hours or is that 24 hours?
[00:36:42.000]That's a really good question. So if you're feeding, you know,
[00:36:45.000]yeah, two to three pounds of grain, their glucose and insulin will go up.
[00:36:49.500]It usually spikes about 60 to 90 minutes after they eat the meal and then it'll go back down.
[00:36:56.000]So you're only talking, you know, maybe, you know,
[00:36:59.500]an hour to two hours worth of high glucose, high insulin,
[00:37:03.500]and that's when you're going to find their hyperactivity.
[00:37:06.500]So you can kind of picture it like a kid on a sugar high, you know,
[00:37:10.500]they eat all their Halloween candy, they run around the house for an hour and then they crash.
[00:37:14.500]So that's kind of the same thing that it does in the horse as well.
[00:37:21.500]Does feeding alfalfa make them sweat more or make them hyperactivity, hyper?
[00:37:29.000]Was that with alfalfa, is that what you were asking?
[00:37:31.500]Yes.
[00:37:32.500]Okay, sorry, I missed the first part of that.
[00:37:35.500]Alfalfa does not actually.
[00:37:37.500]Alfalfa, the main ingredient in alfalfa, it's really high in protein.
[00:37:41.500]It can be between almost 20% and 30% protein.
[00:37:45.500]And protein is actually not used for energy.
[00:37:50.500]10%, maybe 10% of the total energy in the diet comes from protein.
[00:37:56.000]So it does not have any link to any of the hyperactivity.
[00:37:58.500]In terms of excess sweating, I actually haven't seen that done.
[00:38:03.500]That is a good question because there is a lot of protein in the sweat.
[00:38:06.500]I actually haven't seen that connection.
[00:38:10.500]But it can make them urinate more because high levels of protein,
[00:38:15.500]a lot of the protein needs to be excreted as urea.
[00:38:19.500]And that all goes through the kidneys.
[00:38:21.500]So if they are on really high levels of protein,
[00:38:23.500]regardless of whether it's alfalfa or soybean meal or whatever,
[00:38:28.000]it could cause higher levels of urination and they might be more thirsty.
[00:38:32.000]So because they're urinating more, they're drinking more.
[00:38:36.000]So that might be the connection there.
[00:38:40.000]Yeah, I think that was all of your question.
[00:38:42.000]If I didn't answer it all, let me know.
[00:38:45.000]What about feeding distillers grains from ethanol plants?
[00:38:50.500]He was asking what about feeding distillers grains from the ethanol plants.
[00:38:54.500]We have a lot of that here.
[00:38:55.500]Yeah.
[00:38:57.500]That isn't done a whole lot on the East Coast.
[00:39:00.000]But there has been a lot of research done on distillers grains for horses.
[00:39:04.000]And it is a very good, viable feed source.
[00:39:08.000]It can have good, high-quality protein levels in it.
[00:39:13.000]I would always recommend, however, before feeding it,
[00:39:17.000]that you get it tested to see the full nutrient content before.
[00:39:21.000]Because I know there's so many different types of the distillers grains
[00:39:25.500]and the different plants.
[00:39:27.000]Everything comes out just slightly different.
[00:39:29.000]So I would recommend getting it tested before incorporating it into the diet.
[00:39:33.000]But I've seen it almost replacing a full grain ration,
[00:39:38.000]so two, three, four pounds a day of the distillers grains.
[00:39:43.000]Kathy, we have a question.
[00:39:45.000]Have at it.
[00:39:48.000]What is missing in the diet when horses,
[00:39:52.000]and these are not young horses, start eating their manure?
[00:39:56.500]Can someone repeat that so I can hear it?
[00:40:00.500]Yeah, it was really faint.
[00:40:02.500]I'm sorry.
[00:40:03.500]There you go.
[00:40:04.500]She asked what happens, and these are not, you said these are older horses?
[00:40:09.500]Older horses, what is missing in a horse's diet and ration
[00:40:13.500]when older horses start eating their own manure?
[00:40:16.500]Manure, okay, yeah, coprophagy.
[00:40:18.500]You know, sometimes nothing, and I'm going to start off with that,
[00:40:24.500]because sometimes it's just a,
[00:40:26.000]I don't want to say a fad, but I've seen a lot of horses
[00:40:32.000]that have been on very good diets for long periods of time,
[00:40:36.000]and then they go through a few weeks of eating manure,
[00:40:39.000]and then they go back to whatever they were doing.
[00:40:42.000]However, I will say sometimes there could be a mineral imbalance,
[00:40:46.500]and it might not be that they're missing something.
[00:40:49.000]It might just be that something is amiss,
[00:40:51.500]or something is just imbalanced in the horses.
[00:40:54.000]So what I would say is,
[00:40:55.500]because it is very case specific,
[00:40:58.500]I can't just make a blanket statement and say,
[00:41:00.500]"Yes, your horse is missing iron," or whatever,
[00:41:03.500]would be to work with a nutritionist,
[00:41:06.500]and I could provide in the chat box my contact information
[00:41:11.500]if you want to send me your horse's diet,
[00:41:14.500]and I can look and see if there's anything obvious that might be missing,
[00:41:17.500]and I can make a recommendation for maybe a mineral supplement
[00:41:21.500]that might just help balance things out a little bit.
[00:41:25.000]But really, it's very horse-specific.
[00:41:28.500]Does that answer your question?
[00:41:31.500]Kay, do they do it regularly, or is it hit and miss like she asked?
[00:41:36.500]This is perhaps a regional problem.
[00:41:41.500]My horses that are older horses, all of them,
[00:41:54.500]have started doing it.
[00:41:58.000]I have a neighbor that someone wants to turn in
[00:42:03.000]for her horses being malnourished because they're doing it.
[00:42:08.000]And I talked to a friend who lives just over the border in South Dakota,
[00:42:14.000]and her horses are doing it.
[00:42:17.000]So I suppose it's possible that the hay from the region is not up to snuff,
[00:42:24.000]but they're doing it.
[00:42:26.000]Yeah, I heard a bit of that, is that a lot of horses in the region
[00:42:29.000]are starting to do it.
[00:42:30.000]And my first thought would be the hay.
[00:42:33.000]You know, I might consider sending it in for some testing to see.
[00:42:37.000]It sounds like the mineral levels in the hay just might be a little bit too low.
[00:42:43.000]So they are craving some, you know, higher levels of minerals.
[00:42:47.000]So that would be my first thought,
[00:42:49.000]especially if multiple horses in the region are doing it.
[00:42:53.500]I'll be sure to give them a hay testing kit before they go home.
[00:42:56.500]That's a great idea. Thank you.
[00:42:59.500]I also have a PPID horse that I read some place should be on some sort of a commercial feed.
[00:43:10.000]What I'm giving him is hay and just a cup and a half of plain oats to mix his prescind in.
[00:43:21.000]I do have to...
[00:43:23.000]Disguise the prescind with a teaspoonful of molasses.
[00:43:29.500]Any thoughts on would he be better with a different type of supplemental feed or just continue?
[00:43:39.500]Yeah, I think I heard that as well about a PPID horse needing more than just forage and, you know, a little bit of oats to the diet.
[00:43:49.500]And, you know, I would say it depends.
[00:43:52.500]I don't know what he looks like.
[00:43:54.000]If he's got good weight on him, I would say you're probably okay and there would be no need for anything additional.
[00:44:00.000]But also it would depend on the hay quality.
[00:44:03.000]So, you know, if it is the same hay that could potentially be making issues with the vitamin and mineral content,
[00:44:10.000]then we might have some issues in the diet just being low in some of the minerals.
[00:44:16.000]But if they're on a really good quality hay and their weight is fine, I don't see any need
[00:44:22.000]to have an addition of a commercial feed.
[00:44:27.000]Is there anything else for me?
[00:44:35.000]I have one quick question.
[00:44:37.000]We were always taught that loose salt is better than blocked salt for horses
[00:44:40.000]because horses' tongues are not rough to consume enough blocked salt.
[00:44:44.000]Is that true?
[00:44:46.000]You know, I think that depends as well because I've actually seen some horses consume
[00:44:51.500]an entire 50-pound block in about three days.
[00:44:54.000]So they're doing it somehow.
[00:44:57.000]You know, some horses don't like to lick.
[00:45:00.000]Just in general, they don't like to lick anything.
[00:45:02.500]My horse is one of them.
[00:45:04.000]I can't get her to lick on anything.
[00:45:06.000]So therefore, yeah, I think loose salt would be better.
[00:45:10.000]But other horses, they seem, you know, they'll go over to a salt block,
[00:45:14.000]they'll lick on it for five or ten minutes, and then they'll be fine.
[00:45:17.000]So really, salt is kind of, it's the only mineral
[00:45:21.000]that really horses will consume to regulate themselves.
[00:45:25.000]They regulate their salt intake.
[00:45:27.000]Granted, like I said, some that consume 50 pounds in three days
[00:45:31.000]might not be regulating, they might just have a craving.
[00:45:35.000]But for the most part, they will regulate.
[00:45:38.000]But if you do have horses that won't lick,
[00:45:41.000]or just, you know, you put a salt block out there
[00:45:44.000]and it doesn't disappear at all, then you might want to do the loose salt.
[00:45:48.000]But, you know, here at Ruckers, we do the block,
[00:45:50.500]and, you know, all of our horses, we've seen look on them from time to time,
[00:45:55.500]and they seem to be doing fine.
[00:45:57.500]Thank you.
[00:45:59.500]Good questions.
[00:46:03.500]Anything else?
[00:46:05.500]Anything else from you guys?
[00:46:08.500]Okay, I think we've kind of had Carrie wrapped up.
[00:46:12.500]One second, Kathy.
[00:46:14.500]Now, are you talking a loose, like a loose horse mineral that you mix
[00:46:20.000]with your asking?
[00:46:21.000]Straight white salt.
[00:46:22.500]I would not, don't, I don't ever like to combine other minerals in there
[00:46:27.500]because those can get thrown off in terms of, you know, too high, too low,
[00:46:33.500]deficient, toxic, et cetera.
[00:46:35.500]White salt you can't.
[00:46:36.500]So just do sodium chloride.
[00:46:38.500]Don't mix in anything else.
[00:46:41.000]Does that answer?
[00:46:46.000]She's, is there, is there a mineral salt?
[00:46:49.500]A mineral salt block?
[00:46:51.000]Is that what you've been seeing?
[00:46:52.000]There is the brown salt or the red salt block.
[00:46:55.500]Some call it, but it's a multi salt block.
[00:46:59.500]I don't like those either.
[00:47:01.000]I like just the plain white salt.
[00:47:02.500]Just because, you know, on one hand,
[00:47:05.500]if the horse is one of those that consumes the block faster than others,
[00:47:09.000]they're getting way more of other minerals than they really need.
[00:47:13.000]But if your horse is one of the horses that doesn't consume enough
[00:47:17.000]or consumes very little,
[00:47:19.000]the levels are so low in the block that they're negligible anyway.
[00:47:22.500]So I just think because other minerals have too much possibility
[00:47:28.000]of having everything get thrown off in the system,
[00:47:30.000]that you should just do the white salt.
[00:47:33.000]And I'm actually putting on chat right now my email,
[00:47:35.500]so if anybody has any further questions,
[00:47:38.000]they can just go on to the chat and they can go ahead and email me.
[00:47:43.500]Oh, Jumaane's got one more quick one.
[00:47:45.500]Okay.
[00:47:46.500]If you're feeding alfalfa hay,
[00:47:48.500]your calcium to phosphorus ratio is way off.
[00:47:51.500]If you don't want to feed mineral,
[00:47:53.500]how do you balance that ratio?
[00:47:55.500]So actually high levels of calcium isn't really detrimental.
[00:48:00.500]It's not really an issue.
[00:48:02.500]They're about six to one roughly in the alfalfa calcium to phosphorus ratio.
[00:48:08.500]Two to one is ideal.
[00:48:10.000]You never want to go higher with the phosphorus.
[00:48:13.000]Then you do calcium,
[00:48:14.000]you always want calcium to be higher.
[00:48:16.000]And even if you're on a full,
[00:48:18.000]you know, solid alfalfa diet,
[00:48:20.000]the calcium is, you know, six to one.
[00:48:23.000]That's okay.
[00:48:25.000]Calcium has a really large range
[00:48:27.000]that it is acceptable at.
[00:48:30.000]And when it is that high, it is okay.
[00:48:33.500]Granted, if they're on a six to one
[00:48:35.500]calcium to phosphorus ratio for 30 years of their life,
[00:48:38.000]there is some issues it could cause.
[00:48:40.000]You know, there is some, you know,
[00:48:42.000]possible enteroliths or intestinal stones
[00:48:45.000]that could potentially be a problem.
[00:48:47.500]But that's like really, really long-term ingestion
[00:48:50.500]of high calcium.
[00:48:55.500]Anything else?
[00:48:58.000]Okay, I think we'll pull Carrie to a close
[00:49:00.500]and really appreciate it.
[00:49:02.000]Okay.
[00:49:03.500]And then thank you so much, Carrie,
[00:49:05.000]because that was just spot on.
[00:49:06.000]And you're so good at all your nutrition stuff.
[00:49:09.500]Well, thank you, everybody.
[00:49:11.000]And sorry about the little technical difficulty
[00:49:12.500]at the beginning.
[00:49:13.500]But have a good rest of your meeting.

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Human Fad Diets and Their Effect on Horse Nutrition

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