Kip Karges (Full Presentation)
Eric Buck
Author
08/01/2024
Added
4
Plays
Description
Optimizing Your Silage Investment: Key Takeaways
Searchable Transcript
Toggle between list and paragraph view.
- [00:00:00.000]I want to go ahead and open up for questions for the audience regarding the overall theme
- [00:00:14.920]of the conference here today.
- [00:00:17.120]So I know some of you out there have got some questions, so here's your opportunity to fire
- [00:00:23.680]away.
- [00:00:24.120]Everybody must be tired.
- [00:00:28.860]Who's got one?
- [00:00:33.200]Yeah, we can repeat the questions for the people online.
- [00:00:36.940]So just raise your hand if you've got a question.
- [00:00:41.260]Yeah, I didn't want to sit by Jim, so for those online, the question was, perhaps earlier
- [00:01:11.240]today or previous to today, I've talked up corn silage as a roughage source for finishing
- [00:01:17.620]cattle, and Jim just poo-pooed that idea, as they say.
- [00:01:23.100]No, what's that?
- [00:01:25.600]Yeah, and in fairness, I don't want to speak for Jim because he can comment too, and he
- [00:01:33.680]will.
- [00:01:33.900]He suggested that feeding higher silage inclusions, especially for the corn silage,
- [00:01:41.220]for smaller farming feeding operations, is a pretty high priority use.
- [00:01:45.940]And by the way, I don't disagree with his priority on the backgrounding side because
- [00:01:51.120]you get the extra gain, especially if you get the protein right, which he went through,
- [00:01:55.140]I think, eloquently.
- [00:01:56.260]So I think when it comes to rough feed sources and finishing cattle, you know, you all can
- [00:02:04.640]do the economics, and it's actually fairly straightforward, and so to justify what Jim
- [00:02:11.200]said, in his example, he was calculating stocks were maybe a better buy as a rough feed source.
- [00:02:16.340]If you truly just need rough feed, you've got byproducts.
- [00:02:20.200]Josh Benton, who now directs our beef unit here at NREC, in his PhD program 12, 13, 14
- [00:02:27.680]years ago, did that work, where he compared corn silage to corn stalks to alfalfa hay,
- [00:02:34.080]and in the old days, alfalfa hay and corn silage would be much better rough feed sources
- [00:02:39.480]than corn stalks.
- [00:02:41.180]But if you're feeding enough other wet byproducts, the stalks actually look better.
- [00:02:45.460]So I think it's one of those things where some years, stalks might be a buy, and you
- [00:02:50.340]can feed them at 6% of the diet, and as long as you've got other wet distiller's grains
- [00:02:55.540]or modified distiller's grains in the diet, you should get equivalent performance to corn
- [00:02:59.760]silage.
- [00:03:00.140]I like corn silage still, from a management standpoint, for a couple reasons.
- [00:03:06.660]One is the inventory is in the fall, and you've
- [00:03:11.160]got to plan ahead, which is always good for feedlots to do, to have the inventory set
- [00:03:15.440]for the year, or at least for much of the year.
- [00:03:17.560]So silage has an advantage.
- [00:03:19.500]If you have the facilities and the bunker space, the flat storage, whatever, to put
- [00:03:24.380]up silage.
- [00:03:24.980]Secondly, if you're in corn production area, you can probably access enough corn silage
- [00:03:31.180]at that time of year.
- [00:03:32.140]And then the thing I really like about corn silage is it's processed into the bunker.
- [00:03:38.740]You don't have to process it out into the feedlot.
- [00:03:41.140]All that said, though, if you don't do a good job managing shrink, covering the pile and
- [00:03:46.280]putting up silage well, you should not, you have no business putting up silage.
- [00:03:49.720]You see my point?
- [00:03:50.680]So it's hard to say silage is always best because if you don't manage it well, don't
- [00:03:54.520]put up silage.
- [00:03:55.180]Stocks, if you can buy them, you can access them.
- [00:03:59.000]By the way, those stock bales eventually disappear if you just let them sit outside.
- [00:04:03.100]What's that called if it just disappears?
- [00:04:04.920]Shrink.
- [00:04:06.080]So I think silage gets a bit of a bad rap for shrink when all hay is gone.
- [00:04:11.120]And all forages, especially bales sitting outside, shrink too.
- [00:04:14.940]So I think some years, stocks might be a better buy.
- [00:04:17.840]Some years, silage might be a better buy.
- [00:04:19.840]I don't know that that changes anything.
- [00:04:22.940]We use a combination of both, depending upon the application.
- [00:04:25.800]But if you're worried about not having distillers, you're worried about managing inventory,
- [00:04:30.080]and you don't want to process stock bales, silage is a pretty good deal.
- [00:04:34.620]I'll let Jim justify his ranking from there on.
- [00:04:41.100]Good job, Alan.
- [00:04:41.980]Anytime you can pit us against each other, you know, it should be entertaining, if nothing else.
- [00:04:45.920]So, yeah, obviously not saying that silage is not, that you shouldn't use silage in finishing systems.
- [00:04:52.600]My thought process was just think about the megacals, the importance of the megacals going into that system, right?
- [00:04:59.340]And for that, you know, two-month period, a little more than two-month period, those megacals going into those cow systems,
- [00:05:07.340]by the way, we're asking her to rebreed, and we want to move her a body.
- [00:05:11.080]We want to move her a body condition score up at that same time.
- [00:05:13.880]I just think that silage fits that energy demand pretty nicely at that time.
- [00:05:19.100]And going back to the cost per unit of fiber, back cost per unit, I would probably, well, Galen said this,
- [00:05:28.380]but I would, I think corn stalks are yes, no.
- [00:05:32.520]I think if you have access to another wet feed ingredient, corn stalks are kind of a no-brainer,
- [00:05:37.580]and you have access to the corn stalks in a finishing system.
- [00:05:40.640]And if you have access to a feed ingredient, you have access to a feed ingredient,
- [00:05:41.060]and if you don't have the ability to bring moisture into the diet,
- [00:05:43.460]then I think the priority for silage goes up because it helps really mix the diet well.
- [00:05:48.680]You've got more than two issues, but repeating the question for those online.
- [00:05:55.080]The question was, you haven't bought into the high silage inclusion diets
- [00:06:01.200]because there's some other implications we've not addressed,
- [00:06:03.860]one of those being manure and having to haul more manure.
- [00:06:07.000]Yes, that's fair.
- [00:06:11.040]I know there's a lot of feeders who worry about how much moisture is in the pen.
- [00:06:16.000]Is moisture retained more in the pen with high silage diets?
- [00:06:20.520]More roughage you feed, more manure, lower digestibility.
- [00:06:23.780]That's why their conversions are poorer and gains are less.
- [00:06:27.520]All those are fair statements, and yes,
- [00:06:29.880]we may not have accounted for two things with the high silage diets,
- [00:06:34.600]so just to be upfront about it.
- [00:06:36.340]If you're a large feeder, which by the way we've said it doesn't fit
- [00:06:41.020]as well in, then you're probably really trying to work on efficiency
- [00:06:46.120]of your feed truck routes and getting feed delivered accurately
- [00:06:50.660]and quickly and consistently.
- [00:06:52.780]More silage, higher silage diets, if your feed truck is limited on weight
- [00:06:59.520]and how big your loads can be, that's a limitation.
- [00:07:03.220]It's going to increase number of trips or loads and or increase labor,
- [00:07:08.020]whatever.
- [00:07:09.220]If you're not limited on weight,
- [00:07:11.000]then the volume, I don't think, will be offset.
- [00:07:14.940]But that's one thing we didn't really discuss today yet.
- [00:07:18.160]The manure issue, you know, I think that we need to manage manure.
- [00:07:21.940]I think that manure management is very environmental dependent
- [00:07:25.440]and where you're located might be an opportunity
- [00:07:28.980]in some of these alternative housing systems
- [00:07:31.180]like we can see today on the tour.
- [00:07:32.840]I'm kind of intrigued on doing some of this high silage work
- [00:07:36.860]potentially in our confinement barns
- [00:07:39.040]where we will actually measure manure
- [00:07:40.980]amounts.
- [00:07:41.480]In the old days, when we do this work in open pens,
- [00:07:44.540]we can haul the manure out, but we got so much soil
- [00:07:47.660]contamination, it's kind of difficult work.
- [00:07:49.940]You get a much more accurate estimate.
- [00:07:52.000]So I'd like to quantify some of those manure output issues
- [00:07:55.320]either in our RCC pens, our solid surface pens,
- [00:07:58.080]and in our confinement barn pens as we go forward.
- [00:08:01.300]But yeah, I didn't account for that.
- [00:08:02.940]Now, I would argue that the manure will
- [00:08:05.220]be higher quality manure.
- [00:08:07.140]So yes, you may have to haul more manure value.
- [00:08:10.960]You may have to haul more volume out or material,
- [00:08:12.960]as is material.
- [00:08:14.460]But what you're hauling conceptually is also better
- [00:08:17.720]because I think that higher fiber manure actually
- [00:08:20.140]traps more nitrogen.
- [00:08:21.240]This is way off topic from silage.
- [00:08:24.220]But by the way, we have to manage nitrogen
- [00:08:26.020]better in the future.
- [00:08:26.820]And that might be one way to do it.
- [00:08:28.760]In fact, some of the first high silage work
- [00:08:32.160]that I was involved with, I was a graduate student
- [00:08:34.120]24 years ago, more than that, I want to say,
- [00:08:37.500]and did that as part of my PhD where we were feeding
- [00:08:40.500]higher silage.
- [00:08:40.940]Not because we were interested in the higher silage
- [00:08:43.540]part of it, it was a way to trap more nitrogen manure.
- [00:08:46.280]And by the way, it worked.
- [00:08:47.900]That's fair.
- [00:08:51.380]So Alan's saying, but if we're going to background calves,
- [00:08:56.420]we did some work where we showed that if you background
- [00:09:00.100]calves at 75% inclusion, let's just say the 80%
- [00:09:03.900]kind of background in silage diet, then step them down
- [00:09:06.860]to a traditional amount of forage at 15, halfway through
- [00:09:10.920]the, so background them for the first half, finish them
- [00:09:13.860]with low rough feeds the second half. We got pretty
- [00:09:16.980]much similar performance as just feeding 45% all the
- [00:09:20.240]way through. That is true. And the silage use was
- [00:09:26.200]about the same. They were a little different. I can't
- [00:09:28.460]put statistics on that, but they were a little
- [00:09:30.320]different, about the same though. The manure would
- [00:09:33.560]be about the same if you were backgrounding versus
- [00:09:35.500]finishing. The other thing to point out, and Jim
- [00:09:37.640]alluded to this, is that I always used to think
- [00:09:40.900]that if we fed 45% silage, we were just finishing
- [00:09:44.300]them a little slower and they'd be going out
- [00:09:46.560]lighter. But in fact, we can put more frame on
- [00:09:51.640]them and actually feed them the 28 days longer
- [00:09:54.720]and actually make them bigger going out before
- [00:09:56.920]they get too fat. And I know you probably aren't
- [00:09:59.380]aware of this, but we make cattle pretty big and
- [00:10:01.540]that's been a trend line, right? We're making
- [00:10:03.840]cattle bigger and bigger and feeding a higher
- [00:10:06.440]silage diet actually puts a little frame on them
- [00:10:08.660]so you can make them even bigger at the same
- [00:10:10.880]fatness. We're also making cattle fat, so we're
- [00:10:14.260]doing. Yeah, the other comment is instead of
- [00:10:21.420]having to feed a backgrounding diet and then
- [00:10:23.500]transition them over to a finishing diet where
- [00:10:25.740]you got to do step-ups included in that, you can
- [00:10:28.420]just feed 45 all the way through. And yes, we,
- [00:10:31.620]that is another advantage is 45 all the way
- [00:10:36.240]through. Other questions or Jim? I just
- [00:10:40.860]wanted to point out that Rick has more issues
- [00:10:42.460]with Galen than he does with me. Rick, you had
- [00:10:44.540]two. You said you only got one. At least, at
- [00:10:49.100]least enough cover crop to wean those calves
- [00:10:51.620]out. Rick, we have no evidence that, that
- [00:10:54.700]there's detrimental effects of not using a
- [00:10:57.160]cover crop. Okay. So I think, and here's the
- [00:11:01.520]reality. I mean, I don't know if there's any
- [00:11:04.100]agronomists in the room that I'm going to
- [00:11:05.320]offend, but you better have livestock as a part
- [00:11:08.120]of the equation to pay for the cover crop, right?
- [00:11:10.840]Because it's pretty tough to make the cropping
- [00:11:13.000]system. Clearly, from an ecosystem standpoint,
- [00:11:16.660]erosion standpoint, all the things that you just
- [00:11:19.000]mentioned and we talked about, there's benefits
- [00:11:21.000]there, but there's no way to pay for it. In
- [00:11:23.340]other words, there's no bump in yield. So I
- [00:11:26.720]think having livestock or cattle as a part of
- [00:11:29.420]that system helps pay for the cover crop, and
- [00:11:31.700]then you still get, I won't say 100% of the
- [00:11:33.800]benefit, but most of the benefit, okay? So, you
- [00:11:37.540]know, in my scenario, Jeremy asked a good
- [00:11:39.840]question. In my scenario, I'm going to say
- [00:11:40.820]in my scenario, if you were to put calves out,
- [00:11:42.780]put cover crop on everything, you'd need some
- [00:11:45.660]neighbor's calves to come in and graze all of
- [00:11:47.720]that to take that, to utilize that forage to pay
- [00:11:49.580]for it. Yeah, so the question was, you know,
- [00:11:54.060]we've been doing some of this work with silage.
- [00:11:56.760]Where are we going from here on silage, and what
- [00:11:59.940]would we like to see in the future? Well, I think
- [00:12:03.040]that we are always trying to predict what our
- [00:12:10.800]opportunities, and some of that's been distillers
- [00:12:16.000]grains and use of corn milling byproducts in the
- [00:12:19.260]past. Some of that we thought was silage as an
- [00:12:23.580]opportunity here more recently, and I think that,
- [00:12:28.240]I mean, I'm going to say this because I've joked
- [00:12:31.020]about it. We've shown a lot of data where you go
- [00:12:33.880]from, for a farmer feeding operation, you go from
- [00:12:36.260]15 to 45 percent silage, and I've joked, you know,
- [00:12:38.640]how many people have adopted it because you hurt
- [00:12:40.780]hormones. I've always said zero, which I can't say
- [00:12:43.420]zero because I know a number of people who are
- [00:12:45.580]doing it, but it isn't real widely adopted. So I
- [00:12:50.640]think there's still opportunity to use more
- [00:12:52.240]silage, but if we're going to do it, we also need
- [00:12:55.280]to make sure that we have the same emphasis on how
- [00:12:59.600]we price it correctly and how it's put up and
- [00:13:02.340]managing shrink. So I think some of the reasons
- [00:13:05.280]that I've embraced and pushed and tried to help
- [00:13:08.340]and been engaged in the
- [00:13:10.760]silage conferences over the years is because I think in the beef systems
- [00:13:14.100]area, beef producers, we need to do a better job
- [00:13:17.180]managing silage. And as I said earlier, if you're not going to manage silage,
- [00:13:20.440]don't do anything we just recommended. Because it's
- [00:13:23.140]not going to pay off. You'll lose it. It'll be too much shrink.
- [00:13:25.660]And anything we just said about advantages will go away.
- [00:13:28.100]So I think we're seeing that, though. I do believe
- [00:13:32.100]that the beef industry is, you know, we've joked
- [00:13:35.120]about dairy industry doing a really good job putting up silage.
- [00:13:38.100]They've fed 45% silage.
- [00:13:40.740]In their diets for years, right?
- [00:13:43.200]So and we commented about how bunkers are covered.
- [00:13:46.940]They use the rakes.
- [00:13:48.620]But I see a lot of feed yards who are managing surfaces
- [00:13:51.980]better, are covering, using inoculants, targeting the right dry matter,
- [00:13:57.200]making sure it's packed.
- [00:13:58.440]So we're making good progress.
- [00:14:00.400]But I don't know.
- [00:14:01.580]I guess I'd like to see Nebraska be the number one silage state
- [00:14:05.280]instead of whatever the states were.
- [00:14:08.200]No, I don't know if that's the thing, but if it makes our producers more
- [00:14:10.720]money and we have an opportunity to use those acres better, I think it's great.
- [00:14:14.660]The only thing I would add is that Jim said that the cover crops don't pay
- [00:14:18.660]unless they're used, and that's true unless somebody's incentivizing them for
- [00:14:22.820]other regenerative climate, other carbon purposes.
- [00:14:27.320]But if you can get all that benefit and still graze it, then that's even better.
- [00:14:31.160]So I'll come in really quick.
- [00:14:35.920]I just, one thing to me is really interesting.
- [00:14:38.300]I'll give you perspective from the dairy side.
- [00:14:40.700]Dairy producers are really keen on changing very quickly to what is available and
- [00:14:48.400]what is profitable at the time.
- [00:14:50.220]So I think in our roles, especially at the university level,
- [00:14:53.520]we try to get as much data and information out there so
- [00:14:56.260]that they can do whichever decision they make correctly.
- [00:15:00.700]But it's really difficult to be able to actually crystal ball predict.
- [00:15:05.000]Because as fast as anything changes, producers have the capacity to adapt.
- [00:15:10.680]I can tell you, I went from a state where we were feeding primarily alfalfa to
- [00:15:14.960]dairy cows, green chop, and in less than one year,
- [00:15:18.280]we lost about 80% of that to corn silage.
- [00:15:21.520]Because it was financially beneficial for them.
- [00:15:24.820]So again, I think it's our job to get that information out there, but
- [00:15:28.900]the market is so volatile and these guys are so good at being able to adapt to
- [00:15:34.180]whatever is beneficial at that point that you have to think about it in that,
- [00:15:39.040]in the flexible terms.
- [00:15:40.660]The tools so that maybe next year silage is not as popular as it is this year,
- [00:15:45.340]but eventually that will come back again and the tools are there.
- [00:15:47.980]So the comments, so for online, I'm going to repeat some of that.
- [00:15:52.600]When you make changes within a dairy systems, it's pretty readily observed
- [00:15:58.300]because of the milk output changes are readily observed quickly.
- [00:16:01.620]In beef operations, that's a much slower process, right?
- [00:16:04.860]You got closeouts, but you make a change and you might need to wait a few months
- [00:16:08.780]to really see anything.
- [00:16:10.640]And then I would argue because of environment and other changes, it's difficult.
- [00:16:15.580]So I would make a, I'm not saying this disparaging on the dairy side,
- [00:16:20.800]but I think it's even more critical to rely on research data for decisions in beef systems
- [00:16:26.740]because you won't see it at the production level, at least quickly.
- [00:16:30.540]So you really got to make sure all your decision making, in my opinion,
- [00:16:34.920]is based on good sound science.
- [00:16:36.500]Whereas in the milking area, I think it still should be based on good sound
- [00:16:40.620]science.
- [00:16:41.060]But if you mess up, you'll know it probably in the next week or so.
- [00:16:44.160]Yeah, so the question was, is can we use other indicators in the beef systems,
- [00:16:49.920]I think is what you're referring to, that would be more rapid indicators of
- [00:16:53.560]how well we're doing.
- [00:16:54.320]You used fecal analysis as one of those possibilities and examples.
- [00:16:58.100]I have some heartburn.
- [00:17:00.720]I will share on using fecal analyses.
- [00:17:03.420]Not from the standpoint of within an operation, but going across operations and
- [00:17:10.220]across.
- [00:17:10.600]Because what we're measuring in that case is concentration of some nutrient.
- [00:17:15.140]Let's use starch as an example.
- [00:17:16.960]If I measure fecal starches, I can measure it in five different operations.
- [00:17:22.860]It's very difficult to compare across those five.
- [00:17:25.600]You could make an argument that within an operation, if I'm not changing diet
- [00:17:30.660]digestibility as much, in other words, I don't add a lot more forage or I don't
- [00:17:34.420]add a lot of byproduct or take a lot out.
- [00:17:36.980]I haven't changed the amount of fecal output much.
- [00:17:39.460]Then I think it could be an indicator of across time within an operation,
- [00:17:44.340]but I get a little nervous going too much across operations.
- [00:17:47.440]But that's because concentration is not exactly the same thing as digestibility
- [00:17:53.540]because you've got to have fecal output.
- [00:17:55.200]And a lot of factors influence fecal output, like intake and other ingredients in the diet.
- [00:18:01.340]So fecal output is feces is maybe a strategy, although I'm lukewarm on it.
- [00:18:08.720]I'd be open to others.
- [00:18:10.420]Others can disagree, but you can't really disagree that we don't really measure fecal output.
- [00:18:14.480]We're just measuring concentrations.
- [00:18:15.860]It's a good question.
- [00:18:20.100]The question was, is there anything used, any good information out there,
- [00:18:24.040]research data on processing score for the silage
- [00:18:27.640]and correlating that in the beef side in terms of performance?
- [00:18:31.300]Because there are data available on the dairy side for processing score
- [00:18:36.480]and some of the milk output and other important traits for dairy.
- [00:18:41.160]You know, and I was asked this question at your processors convention,
- [00:18:46.280]and it was a great question.
- [00:18:48.920]I don't think we use the kernel processing score or processing score in silage
- [00:18:53.740]in the beef space as readily as they do in the dairy.
- [00:18:56.720]And I am personally unaware, I'm happy to be proven wrong,
- [00:19:00.640]of any good data that shows processing score
- [00:19:03.380]and some correlations to performance outcomes in a beef study.
- [00:19:06.900]There is good information on kernel processing impacts on beef performance,
- [00:19:13.680]either in growing or finishing cattle.
- [00:19:15.620]But remember what I said earlier was in beef,
- [00:19:19.000]if you're looking at finishing cattle
- [00:19:20.720]and you're looking at silage specifically in kernel processing,
- [00:19:23.360]and I'm only feeding 10% silage, good luck finding a difference, right?
- [00:19:27.800]So we've done a couple studies.
- [00:19:29.520]There's some quite old.
- [00:19:30.360]There's some quite older work that's been done on kernel processing,
- [00:19:32.700]and it improves performance efficiencies.
- [00:19:36.000]We think in the beef space it improves the silage by 6% to 7%
- [00:19:40.520]in terms of feed conversion.
- [00:19:42.760]And then you asked another question,
- [00:19:46.300]which was similarly on high-moisture corn and different ways of processing,
- [00:19:50.140]and I'd be happy to share this with anybody.
- [00:19:52.100]But, yeah, we've done some work here, and some others have,
- [00:19:54.540]on hammer milled, rolled, high-moisture corn differences.
- [00:19:58.100]I think corn processing work has been more readily done in the beef space
- [00:20:03.140]and some better information out there.
- [00:20:04.480]Not a lot, though, on your specific question, which was hammer mill and rolled.
- [00:20:08.160]But we probably – we use a little different indicators
- [00:20:13.100]for how well corn is processed in the beef space,
- [00:20:16.140]but there are some indicators.
- [00:20:17.300]Most times that's been used for flaking corn,
- [00:20:19.880]not quite as much on rolled and high-moisture corn.
- [00:20:22.860]The only thing that I would add to that,
- [00:20:28.040]since I'm dying on the backgrounding hill,
- [00:20:30.680]corn processing, I would argue,
- [00:20:33.080]is actually more important in backgrounding calves
- [00:20:34.880]than it is in finishing calves at a 15% inclusion.
- [00:20:37.460]So an 80% inclusion in the diet
- [00:20:39.840]because all of the corn in that diet
- [00:20:42.520]is coming from the silage.
- [00:20:43.780]The kernel processing is really important.
- [00:20:45.660]In a 15, 10, or 15% inclusion,
- [00:20:48.040]that's only a small fraction of the corn in the diet,
- [00:20:50.680]and so that kernel processing, you won't see it.
- [00:20:52.720]Now, you divide the improvement in feed efficiency
- [00:20:54.960]by the inclusion, actually agrees pretty well.
- [00:20:57.460]It's 6% or 7%, but in terms of what you're going to see
- [00:21:00.240]in changing feed efficiency, you're going to see
- [00:21:02.260]a bigger result in the backgrounding diet
- [00:21:04.020]than you will in the finishing diet.
- [00:21:05.060]I would also add that in the analytical side,
- [00:21:11.340]at least from what we do in the dairy industry,
- [00:21:13.980]we have definitely moved fairly fast forward
- [00:21:17.560]to looking at in vitro digestibilities
- [00:21:19.300]at a much more accurate sense based on the formulation
- [00:21:23.200]software that we use and how it predicts.
- [00:21:25.220]So we are analytically allowed
- [00:21:27.220]to be a lot better at actually looking at a feedstuff
- [00:21:29.680]and saying how this would feed and what the outcome would be.
- [00:21:33.280]Obviously, again, a lot of those models
- [00:21:35.420]are based on dairy cattle and how
- [00:21:37.660]they utilize those nutrients.
- [00:21:40.120]So is that for me, Kalil?
- [00:21:41.240]Yeah, I'm trying to remember.
- [00:21:45.240]So correct me if I'm wrong, the question
- [00:21:51.840]was what would be the priority on the whole--
- [00:21:56.420]I think--
- [00:21:56.920]the silage making process.
- [00:21:58.280]I think I would pretty much start from the beginning.
- [00:22:05.100]We would try just to get the initial material, the forage,
- [00:22:10.020]the best quality.
- [00:22:11.480]And sometimes people want to give up that quality
- [00:22:14.220]and get more on yield, depending on the crop.
- [00:22:16.320]It depends what you want to do, what you're looking for.
- [00:22:19.660]But I would pay attention, of course, initially
- [00:22:21.660]to that stage of maturity, according
- [00:22:23.700]to whatever nutritional needs.
- [00:22:26.620]And if we're talking about corn, then they
- [00:22:29.380]go pretty much hand in hand with the dry matter content.
- [00:22:36.020]Then if it's another type of crop,
- [00:22:37.760]you have to either wilt, or you have
- [00:22:40.160]maybe to adjust that dry matter and the maturity.
- [00:22:43.760]So with that maturity, then you know what type of nutrients,
- [00:22:46.640]or you should expect that amount of nutrients
- [00:22:49.040]to be on that particular maturity from that crop.
- [00:22:52.640]The dry matter, if it's on that proper range,
- [00:22:56.320]then you don't need to do adjustments on the chop length.
- [00:23:01.660]So if it's always a little too dry,
- [00:23:03.420]I should chop a little shorter.
- [00:23:05.040]Or if it's too wet and I have to go a little longer,
- [00:23:08.460]but then if it's shorter, I'll have some--
- [00:23:10.860]I have to think about the packing.
- [00:23:12.620]So I'll try to follow pretty much that list.
- [00:23:15.660]I start like for what my starting point,
- [00:23:18.180]because if I start and the material is too wet,
- [00:23:21.840]or it's just past the ideal maturity,
- [00:23:26.020]that I'm looking for, then you're
- [00:23:28.060]at starting the whole process, all the following steps.
- [00:23:32.780]You're not going to fix that first one.
- [00:23:35.140]So I think, first of all, being part of the dry matter
- [00:23:38.500]and the maturity.
- [00:23:41.260]Then I think it makes life easier for the chop length.
- [00:23:46.780]Kernel processing, you get the most out of the processing,
- [00:23:49.540]especially when you're in that ideal sweet spot,
- [00:23:52.360]the 35%, 36%, 37% dry matter.
- [00:23:55.720]I would pay really good attention on the packing job
- [00:24:00.780]and make sure that you get rid of air,
- [00:24:02.380]because that would make the fermentation--
- [00:24:06.040]get the best conditions for the fermentation.
- [00:24:08.080]And even though you get some advantage,
- [00:24:12.080]and sometimes, as I show some data,
- [00:24:13.940]that the inoculant kind of helped and almost
- [00:24:16.760]saved some situations, you're going
- [00:24:18.880]to get more of the inoculant when you
- [00:24:20.660]give the proper conditions.
- [00:24:21.980]So if everything is right, you get the most out
- [00:24:24.220]of the inoculant.
- [00:24:25.420]And yes, I would always like use and advise
- [00:24:29.800]to use an inoculant, because you never know what you're
- [00:24:32.100]bringing from the field.
- [00:24:34.420]So I would say, yeah, I would pay attention especially
- [00:24:36.640]to the initial material and getting rid of air.
- [00:24:41.440]And the other thing should be pretty much standard.
- [00:24:43.540]Using inoculant is more for the front end or for the back end,
- [00:24:46.720]depending on the challenge or the history.
- [00:24:49.540]Cover for sure, cover seal, and just practice some
- [00:24:55.120]good feed out management.
- [00:24:57.320]I think dry matter drives almost all of your decisions.
- [00:25:06.260]And actually knowing what the dry matter is
- [00:25:10.300]would be fairly critical.
- [00:25:11.680]But I think you can have the best laid out plan.
- [00:25:15.080]If you don't meet that dry matter,
- [00:25:17.620]then everything changes.
- [00:25:19.480]I think if that's-- for me, it's the best starting point
- [00:25:21.940]is to actually be able to have an expectation of what
- [00:25:24.820]you want and try to utilize any tools that you can
- [00:25:29.460]to be able to predict or actually calculate it
- [00:25:31.640]as accurately as you can.
- [00:25:33.500]So the question is that a lot of feedlots
- [00:25:35.340]are not covering plastic on top.
- [00:25:38.220]I can actually see why most of the feedlots
- [00:25:41.560]don't do that in comparison to the dairies
- [00:25:43.360]and mostly because of the labor intensive capacity of that.
- [00:25:47.920]I think you have to factor in how much top layer
- [00:25:50.260]loss you can live with and whatever
- [00:25:54.520]top layer loss you can live with,
- [00:25:55.920]then it's perfectly fine with me.
- [00:25:57.360]That's your cover.
- [00:25:59.320]Just don't feed it.
- [00:26:00.480]So what's the dry matter loss percentage-wise?
- [00:26:05.820]It's going to depend really big--
- [00:26:08.160]I mean, where you are, what you came in with,
- [00:26:11.120]and what kind of facility you have.
- [00:26:13.280]I mean, again, for me, again, I said briefly,
- [00:26:16.280]I prefer bunker silos because all your losses
- [00:26:19.720]was that top part, and then you got pressure on the sides.
- [00:26:22.360]If you have, you know, bunkered sideways,
- [00:26:24.220]and all that stuff, so you minimize the amount of loss
- [00:26:27.940]in that top layer.
- [00:26:29.500]I've seen top layer losses of a couple of feet, right?
- [00:26:33.980]So I mean, it really is depending
- [00:26:35.800]on how much you're willing to give up.
- [00:26:38.400]Is labor and plastic more expensive
- [00:26:40.960]than the amount of material you're going to throw away?
- [00:26:44.820]And again, I wish we throw away more than we do.
- [00:26:50.360]That's my biggest problem.
- [00:26:51.500]I mean, I think it's human nature because you're--
- [00:26:53.920]feed it to the calves or something.
- [00:26:55.220]But I think that there's--
- [00:26:59.620]I mean, that's a pretty calculable line
- [00:27:02.620]for individual operations, right?
- [00:27:04.540]I mean, plastics cost me x.
- [00:27:06.760]Labor, to put it, cost me x.
- [00:27:08.080]Weight costs me x.
- [00:27:10.100]The last three years, I've lost x amount of yield
- [00:27:13.960]through top layer.
- [00:27:15.820]One potential option there is to use propionic acid on the top.
- [00:27:20.600]And then you would significantly reduce--
- [00:27:22.760]I think one of the data points--
- [00:27:23.620]one of the data points that I showed
- [00:27:25.160]was about a 50% reduction in the top layer.
- [00:27:31.080]Again, but the structure of the silage pit
- [00:27:33.240]is really going to be critical in that one too.
- [00:27:35.860]Yeah.
- [00:27:36.360]I think just to expand a little on this topic.
- [00:27:40.200]Some of the data that I showed, and especially
- [00:27:43.300]is coming from Dr. Bolson, that it's well-known and respected.
- [00:27:47.440]And you see like 80% loss on the top 10-inch layer
- [00:27:50.640]versus less than 20.
- [00:27:52.440]So that's-- you know, just like I
- [00:27:53.320]started point, just going a little further,
- [00:27:56.860]and something from Dr. Bolson also.
- [00:27:59.640]You look at the crust of the spoilage layer,
- [00:28:02.980]the top black layer, or that's about three times
- [00:28:07.000]the thickness of the original material.
- [00:28:09.620]So we also have a little calculator
- [00:28:12.740]on all the service offering from our folks on the tech team.
- [00:28:17.380]And we have these calculate on return on investment.
- [00:28:21.280]And then we have the measure.
- [00:28:23.020]We have the measure of the whole surface.
- [00:28:25.320]And what's that layer of--
- [00:28:29.600]just the layer.
- [00:28:31.400]Careful with my words.
- [00:28:33.760]And what that would represent of the original material.
- [00:28:37.000]And then the cost of labor, plastic, tires.
- [00:28:40.220]And we do kind of like an ROI.
- [00:28:41.620]And it's always been running, I don't know, six, seven to one.
- [00:28:46.420]Yeah, it's kind of like a no-brainer.
- [00:28:50.260]But I think to have that kind of really
- [00:28:52.720]easy data, especially from Dr. Bolson, to start this
- [00:28:55.900]and try to convince the producer,
- [00:28:59.840]I think is a good starting point.
- [00:29:01.940]What I would add to your calculation
- [00:29:03.740]is how much it costs you to remove that top layer,
- [00:29:07.080]labor-wise, too.
- [00:29:08.540]Henry, please.
- [00:29:11.420]So if you convince yourself you didn't want to feed that,
- [00:29:15.200]now you've added labor to actually remove that,
- [00:29:18.940]theoretically speaking, right?
- [00:29:20.620]So I think it's all that.
- [00:29:22.420]But about getting to that exercise of, is it worth it?
- [00:29:27.060]Yeah, I mean, in the dairy industry,
- [00:29:28.560]we put plastic on everything.
- [00:29:32.440]It pays.
- [00:29:33.380]You can't see CO2 go off into the atmosphere,
- [00:29:37.140]but you can see your pile lasting longer.
- [00:29:40.160]So I mean, if you're a young professional
- [00:29:42.240]and you want to demonstrate your worth--
- [00:29:45.640]and Alan, you work in a different world.
- [00:29:47.360]You're talking about big feed yards.
- [00:29:48.900]But there's a lot of small producers
- [00:29:50.600]that don't cover their piles.
- [00:29:52.120]If you can convince them to cover their pile,
- [00:29:54.120]you're going to look like a genius, right?
- [00:29:55.960]Because they're going to be able to see
- [00:29:57.340]that they had feed left this year that they
- [00:29:59.180]didn't have last year.
- [00:30:00.520]So to me, it's about how many tons did you put in
- [00:30:03.560]and how many tons did you feed out?
- [00:30:06.080]And being able to see that, maybe the calculation
- [00:30:08.200]doesn't even help.
- [00:30:08.920]But seeing it really makes a big difference.
- [00:30:12.500]I'm trying to think of a number.
- [00:30:14.020]But then sometimes we just think of the shrink losses.
- [00:30:21.820]Just on a percentage base, I would
- [00:30:24.280]expect about 4% on the front end,
- [00:30:28.120]depending on the inoculant you're using, the back end.
- [00:30:30.940]We could get another five or even more,
- [00:30:33.400]depending on the situations.
- [00:30:35.440]But then we always get a little stuck on these weight losses.
- [00:30:41.800]And it goes way beyond that.
- [00:30:46.660]Like on the data from the Florida study
- [00:30:48.700]that I showed that, oh, yeah, you
- [00:30:50.160]have a better recovery with the one
- [00:30:51.520]that was treated, but then you lost a lot less
- [00:30:54.520]of the nutrients.
- [00:30:55.520]So not only, OK, I have less of the material,
- [00:30:59.180]but I cannot just replace everything.
- [00:31:01.080]I have even to buy more of those nutrients that I lost,
- [00:31:05.040]the protein, the energy.
- [00:31:08.320]Yeah, and then you have the issues on, I guess,
- [00:31:13.300]the overall digestibility of the material,
- [00:31:16.400]issues on the hygienic aspects.
- [00:31:19.320]You're feeding all the potential,
- [00:31:21.220]like the spoilage yeast, you should expect that
- [00:31:24.460]on the deteriorated silage.
- [00:31:27.000]And again, data from Dr. Bolson, from advisor Dr. Kung,
- [00:31:32.140]you feed that spoiled silage.
- [00:31:33.700]And even small amounts, you're starting
- [00:31:37.540]dropping that fiber digestibility in the rumen,
- [00:31:40.520]intakes, production.
- [00:31:42.380]So when you think of sometimes just a quick ROI,
- [00:31:46.980]we can come up with a number.
- [00:31:48.560]Sometimes I think on average would be like a three,
- [00:31:50.920]four, two, one, on the very least, just on that weight loss.
- [00:31:55.980]But then it's a lot more than that.
- [00:31:58.140]Yeah, that's what I say.
- [00:32:04.800]When you start putting all the numbers together,
- [00:32:07.580]it's a little more complex.
- [00:32:11.060]Yeah, we calculate it in our operations
- [00:32:13.220]simply based on post-removal deterioration time.
- [00:32:18.780]So time it takes it to get to elevated
- [00:32:20.920]temperatures.
- [00:32:22.060]And again, what we worry in the dairy industry primarily
- [00:32:25.360]is that you get oxidation of those fats in that material.
- [00:32:29.680]And you're losing energy in that diet.
- [00:32:31.260]But you're not only losing energy,
- [00:32:32.600]you're producing free radicals that
- [00:32:34.100]will affect intestinal or rumen of our populations.
- [00:32:37.520]But just based on temperature, we get up to five or six
- [00:32:41.200]to one return on investment.
- [00:32:43.600]Part of it is because, unfortunately, in Arizona,
- [00:32:46.680]we still have the bad habit of pulling material out
- [00:32:50.720]once to feed twice a day.
- [00:32:52.960]So you're getting most of the benefit
- [00:32:54.500]on that secondary feeding of the afternoon,
- [00:32:57.660]where that material's been sitting there for quite a while.
- [00:33:01.480]But that's on inoculant that is a back end inoculant,
- [00:33:05.140]one more of a stabilizing type of inoculant.
- [00:33:09.880]The only time it doesn't pay is when
- [00:33:11.520]you make a bad silage pit.
- [00:33:14.420]I mean, again, I hate to say that,
- [00:33:16.220]but it doesn't solve your problems.
- [00:33:19.720]Kung did some--
- [00:33:20.520]he did some research on that, right?
- [00:33:23.020]If I remember correctly, I can't remember
- [00:33:24.720]what year he did it in, though.
- [00:33:26.560]But anyway, he did it on replacement heifers.
- [00:33:29.620]And he was showing inclusion rates
- [00:33:32.360]of different rates of poor quality forage silage
- [00:33:37.360]and how drastically that affected dry matter intake.
- [00:33:40.460]It's utterly amazing.
- [00:33:42.460]And I think a lot of us see this
- [00:33:44.360]in the beef industry all the time.
- [00:33:45.620]You will see people just pull it down.
- [00:33:48.560]It's not that bad.
- [00:33:49.620]Put it in the truck.
- [00:33:50.320]We're going to feed it.
- [00:33:52.560]It goes on.
- [00:33:53.720]Well, you know, if you ever read bunks on a consistent basis,
- [00:33:59.220]you'll show up the next morning and you're wondering why,
- [00:34:01.220]why do I get a feed call, right?
- [00:34:03.280]And maybe it's only two or three pounds that day
- [00:34:05.080]and it's another two or three pounds the next day
- [00:34:06.680]and then you're behind the cattle and then you've got
- [00:34:08.260]to go through that whole cycle.
- [00:34:10.320]That's where I think this stuff shows up.
- [00:34:12.920]It's not just instant like that,
- [00:34:14.560]but it does show up in the feed bunk.
- [00:34:16.620]And the dairy side, we have the added advantage or disadvantage
- [00:34:20.120]of seeing a milk fat very quickly.
- [00:34:22.820]So again, a lot of times when you have milk fat suppression,
- [00:34:25.320]you go into that herd and you look at the forage quality
- [00:34:27.820]and it's not great.
- [00:34:29.460]You can actually put an antioxidant on that diet
- [00:34:31.820]and get a bump fairly quickly because you're just feeding a
- [00:34:34.520]bunch of free radicals into that rumen
- [00:34:36.680]that are creating just rumen instability.
- [00:34:39.360]So again, there you see it fairly quick.
- [00:34:41.280]And that's -- I'm talking about, you know, 12 hours, 24 hours,
- [00:34:44.120]you're going to see a drop in fat, butter fat, and that costs
- [00:34:49.920]them -- I mean, depending on what market you are,
- [00:34:52.680]but that can mean a lot of money.
- [00:34:57.820]All right.
- [00:34:58.960]I think with that, we're going to conclude the panel here.
- [00:35:02.900]Appreciate it.
- [00:35:05.140]Let's give our panel a round of applause.
- [00:35:09.400]Thank you.
The screen size you are trying to search captions on is too small!
You can always jump over to MediaHub and check it out there.
Log in to post comments
Embed
Copy the following code into your page
HTML
<div style="padding-top: 56.25%; overflow: hidden; position:relative; -webkit-box-flex: 1; flex-grow: 1;"> <iframe style="bottom: 0; left: 0; position: absolute; right: 0; top: 0; border: 0; height: 100%; width: 100%;" src="https://mediahub.unl.edu/media/22644?format=iframe&autoplay=0" title="Video Player: Kip Karges (Full Presentation)" allowfullscreen ></iframe> </div>
Comments
0 Comments