Not That Kind of Doctor - Job Hunting

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03/11/2024 Added

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Job Hunting - Ph.D. discussions with Nicholas Husbye and Guy Trainin. www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor and https://mediahub.unl.edu/channels/42980

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[00:00:00.000](upbeat music)
[00:00:10.350]You know I love Martha Stewart.
[00:00:12.000]You do?
[00:00:13.380]I do.
[00:00:14.231]Okay.
[00:00:15.064]And so, okay, so the thing about Martha Stewart is
[00:00:18.330]she will have these things
[00:00:20.880]that she does really, really well.
[00:00:23.190]And then she kind of reinvents them
[00:00:26.040]and reintroduces them year after year after year.
[00:00:28.830]And I don't know that she does this now
[00:00:30.000]'cause she's kind of living her best selfie Instagram life.
[00:00:36.360]But every Christmas special, she reintroduces wreaths
[00:00:42.480]like they were something that was brand new.
[00:00:45.690]So if you look at her first Christmas special,
[00:00:48.960]she's doing some things with wreaths,
[00:00:52.080]then the next Christmas special, ooh wreaths.
[00:00:54.960]Third Christmas special, wreaths.
[00:00:56.610]I think we have found our wreath.
[00:00:58.260]And that is?
[00:00:59.640]Job hunting.
[00:01:00.473]Oh, yeah, that is a wreath.
[00:01:02.363]That is our wreath. It's evergreen.
[00:01:05.880]Oh, look at you.
[00:01:10.192]Oh yes, it's evergreen.
[00:01:12.960]Yeah, I just had a call actually from a past colleague
[00:01:19.170]who was reentering the job search,
[00:01:23.730]or she's been in the job search for a while,
[00:01:26.370]and she was kind of wondering,
[00:01:29.250]because we are doing this, it is March already,
[00:01:32.970]this is late in the academic hiring season.
[00:01:36.300]And she was wondering, should I stick with where I'm at?
[00:01:40.110]Should I aggressively keep on looking?
[00:01:43.050]They're gonna ask me to sign a contract,
[00:01:45.270]do I sign a contract?
[00:01:46.470]Do I not sign a contract and hope something comes on?
[00:01:50.280]So this is actually a really interesting time, I think,
[00:01:52.830]to start thinking about
[00:01:54.960]that idea of the academic hiring cycle
[00:01:59.520]and what comes up and what doesn't.
[00:02:01.740]And just recently,
[00:02:02.790]I actually saw some ads that were new and I'm like,
[00:02:06.075]this is is late in the year,
[00:02:07.350]but there's always a few institutions that are looking.
[00:02:09.570]Yeah, so timing,
[00:02:11.670]particularly if you are a graduate student
[00:02:15.120]who's in the final throes of your studies,
[00:02:17.940]so you are working through your dissertation,
[00:02:21.360]you might be in the middle of data analysis,
[00:02:23.370]you might be in that phase
[00:02:25.500]of finishing out your initial version
[00:02:31.200]and you're trying to think through,
[00:02:32.970]when do I start the job market search,
[00:02:35.100]when do I start looking for a job?
[00:02:38.730]It becomes a lot about timing.
[00:02:40.950]Yes. A lot about timing.
[00:02:42.360]And we've talked a lot about the job hunt here on,
[00:02:45.630]oh ha, Not That Kind of Doctor.
[00:02:47.700]Look at me also segue into that.
[00:02:50.190]I'm Nick Husbye.
[00:02:51.270]I'm an associate professor
[00:02:52.350]of elementary literacy education K-6 here at UNL.
[00:02:55.830]And I'm Guy Trainin, a professor here at UNL.
[00:02:59.190]And so here on Not That Kind of Doctor,
[00:03:02.070]we've talked a lot about the various pieces of it,
[00:03:04.650]but I don't necessarily think we've focused in
[00:03:06.810]on the temporal kind of elements of it.
[00:03:10.560]And given that we're recording this in March,
[00:03:16.050]it'll probably come out closer to late April, May,
[00:03:20.130]that's a really good time for rising graduate students
[00:03:24.030]who are finishing out dissertation work
[00:03:27.300]to begin thinking about in academic year 2024-2025,
[00:03:33.090]what's that job market gonna look like for them?
[00:03:36.180]Because you're gonna have to balance out that strategy,
[00:03:41.220]that notion of you need to finish your dissertation.
[00:03:44.220]Yeah, and there's a lot of work there.
[00:03:45.477]And there's a lot of work there,
[00:03:46.680]but there's also a lot of work with the job search,
[00:03:49.590]and so how do you balance that?
[00:03:52.350]And so that's kind of our topic for the day.
[00:03:59.040]And key to this is what you were talking about earlier,
[00:04:02.010]is understanding that higher education hiring cycle.
[00:04:08.340]And we're seeing based upon how funding is changing,
[00:04:15.780]we're seeing some anomalies, right?
[00:04:18.870]Mm-hmm.
[00:04:19.703]But traditionally,
[00:04:21.690]the higher ed hiring cycle has been fairly routine.
[00:04:27.510]Talk to me about that.
[00:04:29.310]So institutions try to put the ads out early in the fall,
[00:04:36.210]as early as possible in some ways, but it always gets into
[00:04:40.080]the September, October kind of period, put the ads out,
[00:04:45.840]especially if they're trying to compete for talent.
[00:04:48.630]Because most institutions are thinking,
[00:04:51.570]if I want talent, I want to be out there early.
[00:04:54.840]Institutions are also worried about,
[00:04:59.640]quote, unquote, failed searches,
[00:05:01.350]so you don't find the right person
[00:05:03.120]and everybody's afraid to lose funding.
[00:05:05.400]So they want the most amount of time,
[00:05:09.480]I would argue, at least that's been my experience here
[00:05:12.930]and in a few other places I've worked with,
[00:05:14.910]you want the most amount of time
[00:05:16.320]to be able to select the best candidates that are out there
[00:05:20.220]or from the best candidates that are out there.
[00:05:22.320]And you think, if I'm out early,
[00:05:24.090]I'm much more likely to capture everybody.
[00:05:27.300]If I'm waiting for March,
[00:05:30.780]then many of the people who were available
[00:05:33.150]at the beginning of the year will not be there
[00:05:34.860]and my pool will be diminished.
[00:05:36.330]Is it still possible to hire?
[00:05:38.250]Well, they're still hiring so obviously, yes.
[00:05:41.820]But the traditional way was you publish in the fall.
[00:05:45.900]Actually, before Zoom,
[00:05:48.240]many institutions used conferences to do interviews.
[00:05:51.810]So you would go to the conferences
[00:05:53.280]and that's why national conferences were really critical
[00:05:57.630]for newly-minted PhDs
[00:05:59.730]or ones that are going to be graduating that year
[00:06:03.030]because that was the place
[00:06:04.260]where you can get a quick screening interview
[00:06:08.790]of 15, 20 minutes.
[00:06:11.250]That has gone away because now we have Zoom
[00:06:13.500]and people can interview without having to rush through.
[00:06:17.220]Because it wasn't great to be at the conference
[00:06:19.560]and having to interview candidates
[00:06:21.090]because they're like,
[00:06:21.960]I came here to be at the conference not to hire people.
[00:06:24.780]So that's always a little bit of a challenge.
[00:06:27.720]But those are the main things that I'm thinking about.
[00:06:30.960]It seems to have stretched.
[00:06:33.690]So I think that the change has been that
[00:06:36.120]we're seeing more hiring later in the season when suddenly,
[00:06:39.510]or because of budget difficulties,
[00:06:41.610]finally the money is released
[00:06:43.230]so suddenly an organization is hiring.
[00:06:46.200]There's always been the people who decided to retire
[00:06:49.500]and then finally the money is released
[00:06:52.440]because there's a letter
[00:06:53.640]and therefore an institution is saying,
[00:06:55.890]hey, if we can get somebody this year, that'll be great.
[00:06:58.980]And I think that's happening more.
[00:07:01.530]Again, I think technology is helping in that way.
[00:07:03.825]Yeah.
[00:07:05.047]Well, and so what I'm hearing you say is,
[00:07:10.560]you're gonna start seeing postings
[00:07:12.630]for the following academic year,
[00:07:14.340]starting in, I mean, I've been seeing them as early as July.
[00:07:18.540]Yes. Right?
[00:07:19.560]Yeah.
[00:07:20.670]Kind of mid October-ish deadlines for things,
[00:07:26.040]that tends to be when I start seeing materials due
[00:07:30.690]as I was doing some background research
[00:07:33.540]for talking about this.
[00:07:36.960]And starting mid-October, moving into early-ish November.
[00:07:44.250]And the thing that becomes important for graduate students
[00:07:49.350]who are working on their dissertations is thinking about,
[00:07:53.520]one, the amount of time that it's gonna take for you
[00:07:57.000]to apply to these jobs.
[00:08:02.160]And if you are, it's kind of this balancing act,
[00:08:06.750]because if you are a doctoral student
[00:08:10.500]who does not have your dissertation finished yet,
[00:08:13.200]there's going to be increased scrutiny around,
[00:08:18.090]are you going to be done by the time
[00:08:22.290]your contract with that new institution starts
[00:08:24.510]if you get hired?
[00:08:26.250]Versus, so you're gonna have to be able
[00:08:29.310]to talk to what kind of progress you've made.
[00:08:32.100]They're going to want us to talk to your advisor.
[00:08:35.520]So being prepared for their-
[00:08:38.070]That conversation.
[00:08:38.903]Yes. Yes.
[00:08:39.736]It's not as though you can put off your dissertation
[00:08:44.700]in order to engage in the job market.
[00:08:46.350]You're gonna have to juggle those things
[00:08:49.560]and be thinking about,
[00:08:51.930]this is the time that I have for this job market.
[00:08:54.780]You're gonna have to prioritize
[00:08:55.950]which ones you are definitely wanting to apply to,
[00:08:59.670]which ones you're not.
[00:09:00.780]We've done previous episodes on how to read those ads,
[00:09:05.010]how to make that happen.
[00:09:08.340]Because then when you're on the job market,
[00:09:11.670]that's gonna take time away from your reading
[00:09:13.830]and your writing for your dissertation.
[00:09:16.440]So planning for that October 15th deadline
[00:09:20.010]or just keeping track of when your deadlines are
[00:09:22.830]in tandem with the milestones you've set with your advisor
[00:09:27.510]in terms of completion of your dissertation,
[00:09:31.500]and plan on losing additional time
[00:09:35.550]for those Zoom interviews and then hopefully campus visits,
[00:09:38.910]which can be-
[00:09:40.350]And going back to our episode, the time is not the time
[00:09:45.120]that half an hour you're spending on the Zoom interview,
[00:09:47.580]the time is about prepping well.
[00:09:50.700]And I've worked with a few people
[00:09:52.230]in the recent few weeks actually on,
[00:09:55.770]here's how you need to read the ad,
[00:09:59.460]go and find out whatever you can about the program.
[00:10:02.640]You want to show up ready and knowledgeable
[00:10:06.780]otherwise your odds go down significantly.
[00:10:12.630]They want to know that you know something about them,
[00:10:14.490]that you really wanna come,
[00:10:15.660]all of these things take time and preparation,
[00:10:18.300]and that takes time away from what you're doing.
[00:10:20.580]I've spoken in the last few,
[00:10:23.460]again, in the last couple of months
[00:10:25.350]with graduate students who've said,
[00:10:27.420]I want to be almost done or done with my dissertation
[00:10:30.840]before I start applying, which I understand,
[00:10:35.100]so if you have that capacity, that is great.
[00:10:37.470]But that may create a financial value
[00:10:41.550]where you stop being graduate students
[00:10:43.560]so you're not getting that support and you're not yet hired.
[00:10:47.910]So you have, that's a fine decision,
[00:10:51.090]and sometimes from a family perspective, that works well,
[00:10:53.940]but you've gotta be ready for that.
[00:10:56.250]And if you don't have the resources,
[00:10:58.350]you have to think about, how do I bridge that gap?
[00:11:01.380]Because that could be a significant gap
[00:11:02.970]and nobody's promising you a job the following year.
[00:11:05.910]Right. Right.
[00:11:06.743]A job search is just that, it's a job search,
[00:11:09.060]it may end well, and it may need an extra year.
[00:11:12.150]So having a strategy as to what do you do in that meantime,
[00:11:16.920]if you are gonna wait?
[00:11:18.330]That's something you need to think about.
[00:11:19.467]And if you can't wait, then you've got to plan
[00:11:21.660]how you space out enough time to do a good job search.
[00:11:26.910]I'm seeing too many graduate students right now
[00:11:30.750]waiting way too long.
[00:11:32.010]So I'm asking them,
[00:11:32.850]so you're almost done with the dissertation,
[00:11:34.560]what have you done with the job search?
[00:11:36.060]And they have this look of fear in their eyes,
[00:11:39.930]it's like, job search?
[00:11:41.310]So the way to avoid this look, my recommendation would be
[00:11:45.210]the year before you think you're gonna go on the job market,
[00:11:49.110]start paying attention to what jobs get posted.
[00:11:52.200]Absolutely.
[00:11:53.250]Start paying attention to what the timing is.
[00:11:55.380]We've focused a lot on fall dates,
[00:11:59.010]but there's also this additional wave in spring.
[00:12:01.800]Yeah.
[00:12:02.983]And so those, we normally start seeing November-ish,
[00:12:06.870]late November-ish, January-ish.
[00:12:10.290]And typically those are institutions where,
[00:12:15.450]oh, funding has become available,
[00:12:17.490]oh, we're gonna do this now.
[00:12:20.010]And even late,
[00:12:23.430]I think we had three or four new postings in literacy
[00:12:29.790]just in the last- Yeah, just recently.
[00:12:30.960]Two to three weeks, which is like,
[00:12:32.580]huh, what's going on? Interesting.
[00:12:35.710]But I mean, I don't think that's necessarily uncommon
[00:12:40.627]as I looked back on, I'm not looking, I swear.
[00:12:46.768](Guy laughs)
[00:12:50.515]I had a cohort last year of grad students
[00:12:54.900]who I was mentoring through the job process.
[00:12:57.690]And so I kept track just so I could be like,
[00:12:59.640]is this normal, should I be concerned?
[00:13:02.340]'Cause it used to be if you saw a late posting,
[00:13:06.480]ooh, what's happening there?
[00:13:07.560]Yeah, and that's not necessarily the-
[00:13:09.630]That's shifting and changing.
[00:13:11.610]That used to be something that you would go,
[00:13:14.400]huh, I need to investigate this
[00:13:16.350]'cause why is this getting posted late?
[00:13:18.780]But historical data, as I was looking back on,
[00:13:24.420]what are you seeing out there?
[00:13:28.650]That's been a pretty common shift
[00:13:31.620]to the point where there were a couple of jobs last year
[00:13:35.490]that were posted in May, where fall starts.
[00:13:38.640]Yeah, and that was quite unusual.
[00:13:41.970]I mean, it's not unusual, but it is quite sudden
[00:13:46.980]because that gives you a very limited bandwidth.
[00:13:49.890]It's a very limited window.
[00:13:50.780]Because faculty leave campuses sometime in May
[00:13:53.220]for most campuses so the hiring has to happen in weeks.
[00:14:00.390]So all of that is to say,
[00:14:03.660]when you're thinking about planning
[00:14:05.400]for being on the job market,
[00:14:09.060]the majority of your work
[00:14:09.960]is gonna happen probably early-ish fall semester,
[00:14:13.830]early-ish spring semester
[00:14:15.210]as you're pulling together materials.
[00:14:17.250]Go back and look at our videos
[00:14:18.990]on letters of application, diversity statements
[00:14:23.640]so that you have those materials ready
[00:14:25.440]and you can adapt them.
[00:14:27.030]And then later in those semesters,
[00:14:31.260]Zoom interviews and preparing for those
[00:14:33.990]and hopefully campus visits,
[00:14:36.810]knowing that there's those two big waves,
[00:14:40.980]but also don't count that out.
[00:14:44.850]Set up a, I don't recommend checking,
[00:14:47.790]if you're on the job market,
[00:14:49.080]I don't recommend checking every day
[00:14:50.670]'cause that leads to some manic activity.
[00:14:53.640]Like, oh, my gosh, nothing's coming out.
[00:14:55.920]Check once a week, see what's there,
[00:14:59.730]figure out what are your inclusion criteria
[00:15:03.150]or exclusion criteria for jobs that you're applying to?
[00:15:05.580]That will lessen that sense of,
[00:15:08.910]well, I have to apply to everything.
[00:15:11.040]Apply to the ones that you're really interested in,
[00:15:12.960]apply to the ones that feel like they would fit.
[00:15:16.350]But keeping in mind that,
[00:15:21.840]that first part of the fall semester
[00:15:24.090]and that first part of the spring semester,
[00:15:25.710]that's gonna be the busy material submission time.
[00:15:32.031]And once you have those ready,
[00:15:33.810]it becomes, I mean, going back to preparation,
[00:15:36.300]once you have those ready, you are tweaking,
[00:15:38.820]you're not rewriting everything every time.
[00:15:41.250]And so if you have time, if you have a lot,
[00:15:44.280]let's say you are collecting data for your dissertation,
[00:15:47.730]but now it's summer, you're unlikely,
[00:15:49.860]unless you're working on something
[00:15:51.150]that can be done in the summer,
[00:15:52.470]but if you're collecting data in schools,
[00:15:54.150]that's not gonna happen.
[00:15:55.560]So this is a good time to work on your materials
[00:15:59.100]while you are doing other things.
[00:16:00.540]But you've got a little bit of a lull,
[00:16:02.670]identify your lulls and work then.
[00:16:05.250]I think there are two conversations that must happen.
[00:16:09.210]There's the family conversation.
[00:16:11.130]Some of us have families that they need to consider,
[00:16:13.920]some of us are unattached,
[00:16:15.960]but that is a conversation to have.
[00:16:19.290]Where do we wanna move?
[00:16:20.880]What are the boundaries?
[00:16:21.900]I mean, thinking about boundaries,
[00:16:23.190]we talked about geographic boundaries,
[00:16:24.930]we talked about the kind of institutions,
[00:16:27.240]the size of the town, whatever your boundaries are,
[00:16:29.490]and your family's boundaries,
[00:16:31.350]have that conversations before you apply,
[00:16:33.780]it often has surprising results.
[00:16:38.880]I've had graduate students who said,
[00:16:40.470]we will never move out of Nebraska.
[00:16:43.170]And yes, some people say that.
[00:16:47.310]But they were surprised
[00:16:50.430]when they had the discussion with their spouse,
[00:16:52.230]and suddenly the spouse said,
[00:16:53.670]well, isn't that an opportunity?
[00:16:55.980]And so there are opportunities out there,
[00:16:58.200]have that conversation.
[00:16:59.280]The second conversations you must have
[00:17:02.700]about other things as well,
[00:17:04.140]talk to your advisor about your job search.
[00:17:06.810]A, they can help you.
[00:17:08.220]They know people, they know what's going on.
[00:17:10.320]Actually, the reason I know a lot about what's happening
[00:17:13.650]in a few markets, literacy is one of them,
[00:17:15.450]technology is another one,
[00:17:16.890]is I'm on the listservs and I try to keep my ears open
[00:17:21.300]and my eyes open
[00:17:22.410]because I want my students to have the opportunities.
[00:17:25.560]I wanna make sure that anybody,
[00:17:27.780]even if they're not here and they're assistant professors
[00:17:31.560]or they're doing a postdoc,
[00:17:33.390]I want to send the opportunities down their way
[00:17:35.310]because they might get a great job out of that.
[00:17:37.470]So I listen and I send all of these job postings out.
[00:17:41.400]You are very good at that.
[00:17:42.720]And, thank you.
[00:17:45.840]And you want to have a conversation with your advisor
[00:17:49.620]because you want to know what they're going to say
[00:17:52.801]in that reference check.
[00:17:54.420]Because if you have not finished,
[00:17:56.700]one of the things that all committees will do
[00:17:58.770]is they'll check with your advisor and ask,
[00:18:02.070]how likely are they to finish
[00:18:03.750]by the time they get here?
[00:18:05.760]Because many institutions have hired people
[00:18:09.270]that were almost done, not quite done,
[00:18:11.910]and then five years later, they are yet not done.
[00:18:15.120]And that is the one thing
[00:18:16.860]that institutions do not want to face-
[00:18:18.112]Wait, did they make it to five years?
[00:18:19.500]'Cause normally the stories I hear,
[00:18:21.540]after that mid-year check, they're let go
[00:18:24.570]because they do not have their terminal degree.
[00:18:25.683]Some institutions keep them on for a variety of reasons,
[00:18:28.530]some institutions, they have to leave,
[00:18:30.150]either way, this is not a good ending for anybody.
[00:18:33.780]And the amount of pressure
[00:18:34.740]of being a new assistant professor somewhere,
[00:18:37.290]or even a postdoc,
[00:18:43.470]the pressure of having to finish
[00:18:45.660]and having a whole new set of responsibilities
[00:18:50.340]in a new place can be overwhelming.
[00:18:53.430]I mean, just doing the job can be overwhelming
[00:18:56.070]the first couple of years.
[00:18:57.150]So you don't want to drag your dissertation into it.
[00:18:59.790]If you're just doing final edit, it's one thing,
[00:19:02.130]if you're really not done,
[00:19:03.660]it's going to create a situation.
[00:19:05.070]But what I'm saying is,
[00:19:06.390]your advisor, while they will proudly talk you up
[00:19:09.870]and say wonderful things about you,
[00:19:12.420]will exactly say where you are in the dissertation process
[00:19:17.640]because they think it's going to help you too.
[00:19:19.920]If you are getting a job too early, nobody wins there.
[00:19:23.070]Well, and so as we're thinking
[00:19:25.200]about strategizing dissertation work
[00:19:27.120]and being on the job market, there's a couple of things
[00:19:29.850]that I think advanced doctoral students can do
[00:19:34.050]in terms of making that progress clear
[00:19:40.020]and accessible to everyone.
[00:19:42.630]And a good portion of that is planning for your semester.
[00:19:50.493]You have to engage in laying out what blocks of time
[00:19:55.230]you're going to have available to do things.
[00:19:57.780]You're going to need to assign within those blocks of time
[00:20:03.420]actual action items versus like,
[00:20:06.750]one does not simply cross off, write dissertation,
[00:20:09.450]on your to-do list.
[00:20:11.588]You should not have that on your to-do list,
[00:20:14.014]that's not a to-do.
[00:20:14.847]Yeah, no, that shouldn't happen.
[00:20:16.230]That's a long-term project,
[00:20:18.030]so spending the time laying out week by week,
[00:20:24.360]month by month,
[00:20:26.520]how are you tackling this dissertation project?
[00:20:29.490]Is it you're revising your literature review?
[00:20:32.220]Is it you're analyzing data, you are writing up?
[00:20:36.030]Set solid actionable goals for yourself
[00:20:41.490]and share that timeline with your advisor.
[00:20:46.830]Yes.
[00:20:47.663]So that you have an accountability buddy,
[00:20:51.030]and keeping in mind that that plan may change, it is a plan.
[00:20:57.450]But what that's going to help you do
[00:20:59.490]is it's going to help you see across your semester
[00:21:04.350]where your high intensity work is going to be,
[00:21:08.010]where your lower intensity work is gonna be.
[00:21:09.870]Knowing what you know about the job market,
[00:21:12.270]that wave in the beginning of the fall,
[00:21:14.370]that wave in the beginning of the spring,
[00:21:16.770]what kind of dissertation tasks
[00:21:18.510]can you plan around that time
[00:21:20.310]that are gonna be a lower intensity?
[00:21:22.380]So that you can shift a little bit of that energy
[00:21:25.080]without dropping your dissertation entirely
[00:21:29.400]to be able to focus a little bit more in
[00:21:31.830]on that job market while also making progress.
[00:21:36.120]And I think that does a couple of different things
[00:21:40.110]when you present that plan with your advisor
[00:21:43.650]is it avoids the, well, they're making progress.
[00:21:50.340]If I talk to an advisor for a candidate
[00:21:54.300]who's still working on their dissertation
[00:21:56.130]and they can only talk about that dissertation
[00:21:58.590]in the most general ways, that's a red flag to me.
[00:22:02.100]And so just thinking about as a committee member
[00:22:05.250]or as a grad student thinking about
[00:22:07.140]what hiring committees are looking at and talking about.
[00:22:14.010]If you have a plan
[00:22:15.450]and you've kept your advisor abreast on that plan,
[00:22:18.270]oh, they have done this, this, this, this,
[00:22:20.310]here's what they have left,
[00:22:21.840]this still feels very doable within what they're able to do.
[00:22:28.950]And that goes back to something you should do anyway,
[00:22:32.100]and that is when you get to the dissertation phase,
[00:22:36.300]talk to your advisor on a regular basis.
[00:22:39.000]Do not avoid your advisor even if nothing happened
[00:22:41.870]or if you got derailed,
[00:22:43.410]talk to your advisor because they want to be up to date.
[00:22:47.220]It doesn't need to be a very long conversation.
[00:22:49.650]But A, they can guide you, they have experience.
[00:22:53.610]They will tell you, you are underestimating, for example,
[00:22:56.550]how long it's going to take to get participants,
[00:23:00.420]or anything else about your plan
[00:23:02.790]that you may have not had the experience
[00:23:05.370]because they've worked
[00:23:06.210]with a number of doctoral students before you
[00:23:08.970]and so they know how long it takes and what usually happens
[00:23:15.600]and they can inject a little bit more reality.
[00:23:17.820]You are for sure doing it for the first time.
[00:23:20.160]Oh, yeah.
[00:23:20.993]The second piece is that your dissertation is important
[00:23:24.060]because that may be what you talk about
[00:23:26.490]if you give a research talk.
[00:23:28.800]It may, it may not.
[00:23:30.360]It may be at that phase
[00:23:31.860]where you don't have enough to talk about
[00:23:33.600]so you've gotta make sure that there's previous research
[00:23:36.030]that you were central to that you can talk about.
[00:23:39.030]But your dissertation is very likely
[00:23:40.650]to be a topic of conversation
[00:23:42.510]and you have to be able to articulate exactly where you are,
[00:23:45.720]what are some preliminary finding.
[00:23:47.370]Even if you're not done with all of the analysis,
[00:23:50.340]you've gotta be able to talk through it.
[00:23:52.440]And so that's part of the reasons
[00:23:54.390]you have to keep moving on your dissertation
[00:23:57.240]while you're in the process
[00:23:58.740]because you will be asked about it, no doubt.
[00:24:02.460]Right, and I think one of the other important strategies
[00:24:05.580]to utilize during this time
[00:24:06.870]is you're gonna have to set some boundaries
[00:24:10.530]around your time.
[00:24:11.910]And keeping in mind that I get that folks may have families,
[00:24:19.680]folks may have other responsibilities outside of that work,
[00:24:23.880]but plan accordingly
[00:24:29.430]and set up boundaries for your work time
[00:24:34.920]that your family is aware of.
[00:24:40.530]This is time that is necessary
[00:24:44.280]for you to complete the work that you need to do
[00:24:47.610]in order to go onto the job market.
[00:24:51.570]There's some stakes here.
[00:24:56.070]And I often find that one of the biggest hurdles
[00:24:59.190]is a lack of boundaries within that work.
[00:25:07.380]Yes.
[00:25:08.213]Like, oh, but I needed to do this,
[00:25:10.140]oh, but I needed to do this.
[00:25:11.550]Did you really need to do that at that point in time?
[00:25:15.240]And I'm not talking about,
[00:25:16.530]oh, I had to take my kid to the ER.
[00:25:18.780]By all means go do that, go do that.
[00:25:21.870]Yes. But there's-
[00:25:28.458]I think you're talking about don't fall into the trap
[00:25:31.050]of being busy for the sake of being busy,
[00:25:33.930]not considering how much is this contributing
[00:25:36.690]to the three things I need, maybe four depending,
[00:25:40.890]I need to do?
[00:25:41.723]I need to take care of my family and myself, definitely,
[00:25:44.430]I need to finish my dissertation, and I need to find a job.
[00:25:47.340]Those are your priorities.
[00:25:48.930]Everything else,
[00:25:50.340]this might be a good opportunity to say a lot of no's,
[00:25:54.360]that's my strategy.
[00:25:55.350]At that point in time, you are not volunteering,
[00:25:58.050]you are not doing extra stuff.
[00:26:00.375]If you are a GA and you're working on a project,
[00:26:03.360]by all means do that, don't do extra.
[00:26:05.370]This is not the time for extra,
[00:26:06.870]this is the time to say, this is all I can handle right now.
[00:26:10.440]Yes, at this point- Bravely.
[00:26:12.690]So there's so much emphasis on perfectionistic tendencies.
[00:26:19.020]See our previous, right?
[00:26:23.460]This is the time to worry about being just basic.
[00:26:27.900]Do not worry about being extra.
[00:26:29.340]I feel like too many people are worried about being extra
[00:26:31.170]and they don't cover basic.
[00:26:33.060]And keep in mind that during this point in your career,
[00:26:38.370]practice your disappointment tolerance
[00:26:43.860]because when you set boundaries,
[00:26:47.010]you're gonna disappoint someone.
[00:26:48.660]You're either gonna disappoint yourself
[00:26:50.430]for allowing your boundary to be transgressed
[00:26:53.370]or someone else is gonna be disappointed
[00:26:55.500]because you're not allowing that boundary
[00:26:56.760]to be transgressed.
[00:26:58.560]But I find that if you're honest and say,
[00:27:02.700]look, I'm working on my dissertation,
[00:27:04.920]I'm doing my job duties, and I'm looking for a job,
[00:27:08.640]I just can't do this right now,
[00:27:11.610]most people in most situations would understand.
[00:27:15.300]They may be disappointed momentarily-
[00:27:16.760]Oh yeah.
[00:27:17.593]But they will completely understand.
[00:27:19.380]I mean-
[00:27:20.550]Because it is your future.
[00:27:21.900]Right, so, but what we know
[00:27:23.910]about self-perception of disappointment
[00:27:26.610]is that oftentimes that other person,
[00:27:29.010]exactly as you're saying, is not disappointed for very long.
[00:27:32.070]But the perception of disappointment
[00:27:34.590]is much deeper and longer.
[00:27:36.540]And so build up that tolerance for disappointment
[00:27:44.010]and also acknowledge the fact that
[00:27:45.570]by saying no to something, a no is also a yes.
[00:27:48.390]You're saying no to something extraneous
[00:27:50.520]because you're saying yes to finishing your work on time
[00:27:54.900]and getting out there on the job market.
[00:27:56.580]So set up those boundaries,
[00:27:59.790]set up what's gonna be worth your time
[00:28:03.840]and what's not going to be worth your time.
[00:28:08.400]Given the goals that you have,
[00:28:10.380]what is your standard of care for all of those areas
[00:28:13.530]of your life, is gonna be important.
[00:28:18.090]And I think that checking in with your advisor
[00:28:22.440]is one of those strategies.
[00:28:24.630]But your advisor, if that is not as helpful for that,
[00:28:29.760]find out whoever's gonna be that accountability buddy
[00:28:34.650]that you can check in with and say, here's what I'm doing,
[00:28:39.240]but you've gotta be honest about what you're doing,
[00:28:42.570]here's the problem I'm encountering,
[00:28:44.490]or I'm just telling you this is going great.
[00:28:46.470]Whatever it is, you've gotta have a person
[00:28:48.960]who will ask you the hard questions
[00:28:52.230]that will be really in your favor.
[00:28:56.130]You've gotta have somebody who's solidly in your corner
[00:28:59.070]who will help you sort through that and ask the,
[00:29:02.617]"Do you really need to do that right now?" question.
[00:29:05.100]For me, especially as a young assistant professor,
[00:29:07.440]it was Sarah.
[00:29:08.273]We would have a breakfast
[00:29:09.120]and I would lay out everything you're doing
[00:29:10.920]and she would ask the hard questions
[00:29:12.660]and I would get defensive, and then I would like,
[00:29:15.420]yeah, she's right, kind of moment.
[00:29:17.670]But you need that.
[00:29:18.503]And it's questions, it's not like,
[00:29:20.340]you should not be doing this.
[00:29:21.480]You're not looking for advice
[00:29:22.950]as much as you're looking for a sounding board
[00:29:25.020]that asks the questions that you have to answer.
[00:29:27.420]Kind of like therapy but not quite.
[00:29:29.610]And so that's, in many ways,
[00:29:34.590]the person you need to identify in your life.
[00:29:36.630]And again, it could be your advisor, but it's not always.
[00:29:40.650]Right.
[00:29:41.483]And so find that person
[00:29:43.980]and check in with them more frequently than you usually do.
[00:29:47.250]All the volunteer work, all the service work,
[00:29:50.280]all of those things that we talked about
[00:29:52.860]as the things you need to have in place to apply for a job
[00:29:56.370]should have happened before.
[00:29:58.170]This is not the time to catch up.
[00:29:59.940]It reminds me of seniors in high school
[00:30:01.860]are suddenly remembering that they didn't volunteer enough.
[00:30:05.190]It's like, this is too late.
[00:30:07.110]Just enjoy what you have and revel in it,
[00:30:10.950]the last-minute volunteer in October of your senior year
[00:30:15.210]is probably not gonna get you enough
[00:30:17.190]and it's gonna drive you insane.
[00:30:18.840]So this is the same thing.
[00:30:20.310]It's too late, should have happened.
[00:30:22.290]If it did happen, great, plan in advance,
[00:30:24.990]but now focus on the things that you must do to finish
[00:30:28.257]and you must do to get the job.
[00:30:31.680]And everybody will recognize
[00:30:32.880]that at the last minute you added something
[00:30:34.590]so just let that go, it's okay.
[00:30:38.340]Right, forward.
[00:30:40.590]Forward momentum is important.
[00:30:41.880]And thinking through who's going to give you
[00:30:43.590]that actionable advice, versus,
[00:30:46.470]oh, your dissertation is gonna write itself.
[00:30:48.480]No, it does not.
[00:30:49.313]Dear viewer, it does not write itself.
[00:30:52.980]That is the worst writing advice ever.
[00:30:55.800]Yes.
[00:30:56.850]It writes itself, no it doesn't.
[00:30:58.590]And it's going to feel painful at times.
[00:31:01.320]Yep. Yep.
[00:31:02.310]Yeah, because your- And that's okay.
[00:31:03.480]That's part of the process.
[00:31:04.620]And you are gonna hate it,
[00:31:05.670]there are moments where you want to throw it away.
[00:31:07.950]That also happens to everybody, that's okay.
[00:31:11.640]So take the advice.
[00:31:13.470]And you know who in your life can be that person.
[00:31:16.560]And if you don't know anybody like that,
[00:31:18.360]go and find somebody.
[00:31:20.640]Email Guy.
[00:31:22.200]Email me, that is perfectly fine.
[00:31:24.510]Find somebody that can talk you through those moments.
[00:31:27.720]I have people that call me,
[00:31:30.330]past students, past faculty who moved somewhere else,
[00:31:33.570]who still like, I need to hear another voice in my life.
[00:31:37.260]And it's nice to hear a voice that doesn't have a stake,
[00:31:42.746]that is not the person you're collaborating with
[00:31:44.940]or that you're writing with that has an agenda
[00:31:47.670]because they want that piece published or whatever it is.
[00:31:50.490]Or that data collected or whatever it is.
[00:31:52.980]And so having a person or multiple people in your life,
[00:31:58.350]as long as it's not confusing.
[00:32:00.990]So those are tools.
[00:32:01.823]So what we're saying is
[00:32:03.300]when you think about tools and practices,
[00:32:04.980]you wanna have your own timeline,
[00:32:06.570]you wanna talk to your advisor,
[00:32:08.070]but we're really talking about people resources.
[00:32:10.350]Know who are the people because this is a time that is,
[00:32:14.970]I would argue,
[00:32:15.803]emotionally and just from a workload perspective,
[00:32:18.120]it's a difficult time
[00:32:19.110]and I think people are the most useful tools at this point.
[00:32:22.875]But that's also what I go by.
[00:32:24.510]Yeah, I would keep two things in mind, to summarize that.
[00:32:30.510]Time is your most precious resource.
[00:32:35.850]And so you want to balance out,
[00:32:39.150]don't just talk about your dissertation,
[00:32:41.280]don't just talk about doing your dissertation,
[00:32:43.200]do your dissertation.
[00:32:45.090]Align the way that you spend your time
[00:32:48.840]with the goals that you have.
[00:32:52.080]That's the currency that you are paying
[00:32:55.050]in order to make progress on your goals.
[00:32:56.760]So be aware of that and check in with people
[00:33:00.060]who are going to be respectful of that time
[00:33:02.310]while also pushing you forward.
[00:33:05.190]So I think those are the two big things
[00:33:08.790]if I'm caffeinated enough to be able to provide a synopsis.
[00:33:13.920]So last thing I think we should talk about,
[00:33:15.780]and we've hinted at this,
[00:33:18.000]I feel like you're much better at this than I am,
[00:33:20.730]is the leveraging networks and professional development
[00:33:25.050]without overextending conferences
[00:33:29.430]and going and talking with people.
[00:33:32.160]Networking, that kind of stuff,
[00:33:35.790]how do you do that as a grad student
[00:33:37.980]working on your dissertation without overextending yourself?
[00:33:42.210]So I think that you've gotta do,
[00:33:45.360]I think that there are three opportunities,
[00:33:47.340]and some of them happen earlier.
[00:33:49.290]So definitely here at UNL,
[00:33:52.050]but quite a few campuses around the country have supports
[00:33:56.460]for graduate students locally.
[00:33:58.740]So we have, for example, developing future faculty
[00:34:02.670]that starts, actually,
[00:34:04.560]before you are in the dissertation phase.
[00:34:07.500]And the idea is to create close connections
[00:34:10.050]with people in your field both on-campus,
[00:34:12.570]and not your advisor, and in another campus.
[00:34:16.950]Right now for us it's mostly Big 10 campuses,
[00:34:19.230]but it can also be anywhere.
[00:34:21.330]And the idea is to create those personal networks
[00:34:25.980]where somebody actually from outside the institution
[00:34:28.320]knows you well.
[00:34:29.220]So what I'm saying is to a graduate student,
[00:34:31.770]is first use whatever's available locally and is supported.
[00:34:35.550]Because part of the deal of having to go to conferences
[00:34:38.610]and everything else is you've gotta pay for it.
[00:34:40.980]And if there's a mechanism inside your institution,
[00:34:43.650]and especially research-heavy institutions
[00:34:46.260]have supports for that because they want to send people out,
[00:34:49.110]they want to see more research happen,
[00:34:52.320]this is an opportunity so take advantage.
[00:34:54.420]Find out what your graduate school,
[00:34:56.460]graduate college, whatever, graduate division,
[00:35:00.030]whatever the title is, what are they offering
[00:35:02.820]as a career development?
[00:35:05.070]Because they're gonna pay for it
[00:35:07.860]and they can leverage their relationship to help you.
[00:35:12.630]Which is huge because you're just a graduate student
[00:35:15.180]and you may or may not go.
[00:35:17.340]With conferences, my assumption is that a graduate student
[00:35:21.150]goes to preferably two conferences a year
[00:35:25.080]if you can afford it and if there's enough support,
[00:35:27.720]one in the fall, one in the spring.
[00:35:30.570]It's an opportunity,
[00:35:32.430]you want to try and present something
[00:35:34.650]with or without your advisor.
[00:35:37.530]Being a lead presenter is a little bit better
[00:35:39.420]because it gives you visibility.
[00:35:41.190]I actually love poster sessions.
[00:35:44.310]You do.
[00:35:45.143]You love a good poster session.
[00:35:46.337]Because you can have conversations
[00:35:49.170]both as the person presenting
[00:35:50.910]but also as the person visiting,
[00:35:53.100]because that poster session invites a personal conversation.
[00:35:57.450]You can find the people you want to talk to
[00:35:59.670]and go and talk to them about their work
[00:36:01.860]and mention your work very naturally
[00:36:05.040]in a structured opportunity
[00:36:07.170]where they are in some ways captives
[00:36:09.210]because they're standing next to the posters,
[00:36:11.160]they gotta talk to the people around them.
[00:36:13.140]And so it's an opportunity to have lovely conversations.
[00:36:16.980]I love those, but no more, I would argue no more than two.
[00:36:20.850]First of all, as graduate students,
[00:36:22.290]most of us have taken the vow of poverty
[00:36:24.240]so we can't afford much.
[00:36:25.740]And even with support,
[00:36:27.120]conferences have gotten really expensive
[00:36:29.880]and travel is more expensive than ever,
[00:36:32.370]and so you want to consider that.
[00:36:34.290]And also that it has somewhat limited utility.
[00:36:38.490]That is, you may meet some good people,
[00:36:40.950]but there are a lot of people at conferences.
[00:36:43.920]I actually highly recommend choose the smaller conferences
[00:36:47.310]that are very targeted on the group
[00:36:49.260]of people you're interested in.
[00:36:50.820]So for example, ARA, I love ARA, it's a great conference.
[00:36:55.080]Yeah, we've had this discussion.
[00:36:56.187]But is enormous.
[00:36:57.930]And finding the people you want to talk to
[00:37:00.300]can be very difficult unless you are very targeted
[00:37:03.840]and there's a special interest group in your area,
[00:37:06.570]then there's an opportunity.
[00:37:08.520]But if you're looking for, for example, literacy,
[00:37:11.940]I would say probably not your best bet.
[00:37:15.330]No.
[00:37:16.163]And even the, if you're in literacy,
[00:37:20.550]the big NCTE conference and the ILA conference,
[00:37:23.730]those are also really large.
[00:37:25.380]Yes they are.
[00:37:26.213]But they have smaller conferences
[00:37:28.380]so like the Assembly of Research in NCTE
[00:37:31.203]is a much smaller, more intimate work-based conference
[00:37:35.880]that the function of that is slightly different.
[00:37:40.230]So when you're looking for conferences
[00:37:42.780]in that final push toward finishing your dissertation,
[00:37:47.040]there are works in progress conferences.
[00:37:50.190]And those are particularly helpful in that point in time
[00:37:54.360]'cause they'll ask you to bring,
[00:37:56.490]some of them ask you to bring a sticky wicket
[00:37:58.890]from what you are working with
[00:38:01.770]and provide an actual space to work through that.
[00:38:04.470]And so for me, that was particularly helpful
[00:38:08.010]thinking about that final push.
[00:38:11.370]Yeah, and again, the smaller opportunities,
[00:38:14.280]even if it's within a larger conference,
[00:38:16.800]is important because at that point
[00:38:19.980]you want to talk about the work you're doing
[00:38:21.750]and you want to talk about people
[00:38:23.610]that can give you useful feedback.
[00:38:26.130]So yes- Exactly.
[00:38:27.390]Rely on that as much as you can.
[00:38:30.660]These are opportunities.
[00:38:32.430]But again, with the decline of interviews at conferences,
[00:38:37.740]it is somewhat less important than it ever was.
[00:38:43.290]You still wanna be visible,
[00:38:44.790]there might be opportunities there.
[00:38:46.710]Again, I think that whatever your local university
[00:38:49.770]is offering will be critically important.
[00:38:53.438]And also thinking geographically.
[00:38:54.810]If you're limited geographically,
[00:38:56.580]that might actually open up regional conferences
[00:39:00.420]as a way to get the people who are working in your area
[00:39:03.450]that you are looking at.
[00:39:05.760]I'm a huge fan of not limiting yourself.
[00:39:08.430]I'm a huge fan of trying to have,
[00:39:11.280]if you are going out into the job market
[00:39:13.440]and you're young enough to opening up
[00:39:17.430]to as many opportunities as possible,
[00:39:20.280]instead of closing yourself up and saying,
[00:39:22.530]only this job at this university.
[00:39:24.540]I mentioned that I had a student who has done that
[00:39:26.940]and eventually did not get that job.
[00:39:29.010]So you want to have a wide net,
[00:39:31.920]opportunities that might surprise you,
[00:39:33.540]places you don't know,
[00:39:35.520]opportunities that you wouldn't know were there
[00:39:38.730]if you weren't open to them is still worth thinking about.
[00:39:42.780]Yeah, cast as wide a net as possible
[00:39:44.730]if you can, within reason.
[00:39:48.300]And then also be on conferences,
[00:39:50.100]just let folks know that you're looking.
[00:39:54.720]If you are on the job market, let people know.
[00:39:59.220]Let people know what kind of jobs you're looking for
[00:40:01.350]and so when something comes across, they'll email.
[00:40:05.790]I remember several, when I was on the job market,
[00:40:09.600]the first time finishing up my dissertation,
[00:40:11.940]several people calling me and saying,
[00:40:14.460]this isn't posted yet but it's coming, be prepared.
[00:40:17.250]We would love to see your application
[00:40:18.750]'cause we know you're looking.
[00:40:20.550]And these were people who I had met them briefly,
[00:40:25.170]we had emailed back and forth, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:40:27.870]Academia is small, they want good people in their positions.
[00:40:31.530]Exactly.
[00:40:32.363]So if you build up that reputation to an extent,
[00:40:37.890]people will work to get that done.
[00:40:40.800]And think about, because networking is a difficult task.
[00:40:47.280]And some of us are more introverts,
[00:40:49.290]some of us are extroverts at the right or wrong moments.
[00:40:53.400]So know who you are and work up a strategy of how to network
[00:41:00.270]given how confident you are in those moments
[00:41:04.380]and create the situations around that
[00:41:06.210]and practice how to do that.
[00:41:08.940]Because especially as somebody who does not speak English
[00:41:12.150]as a first language and watching our international students
[00:41:15.150]as they are going out and looking for jobs,
[00:41:17.970]it's harder, I think, to network
[00:41:20.340]when you don't feel confident
[00:41:21.570]suddenly in a social situation or a semi-social situation
[00:41:24.660]like some kind of a cocktail hour without drinks mostly,
[00:41:30.360]but some kind of one of those conference events
[00:41:34.200]where there is an opportunity to talk without an anchor
[00:41:38.730]like a poster.
[00:41:39.563]I mean, the poster, I love the posters partially because
[00:41:42.000]it gives you something to talk about.
[00:41:42.833]Wait, do you love the posters?
[00:41:44.370]Yes, I do, I do. I'm unclear.
[00:41:45.840]I'm unclear about your feelings about the posters.
[00:41:47.006]More posters, everybody. Okay, just talking.
[00:41:50.520]But it does give you the opportunity
[00:41:53.550]to have something to talk about.
[00:41:55.020]And suddenly when it's social,
[00:41:56.490]it's this space where boundaries are a little bit harder
[00:42:00.870]and that just creates that added difficulty.
[00:42:06.480]So have a strategy.
[00:42:07.470]If you are going
[00:42:08.580]and the idea is I'm going to this conference
[00:42:10.287]not just to present but actually to interact,
[00:42:12.990]you have to think about
[00:42:14.070]what are your strategies for interacting?
[00:42:16.170]What are your strengths?
[00:42:17.190]What are the things you're not sure how to do?
[00:42:19.110]And ask other graduate students and definitely faculty,
[00:42:22.620]how do you do this?
[00:42:23.880]Because they may have great suggestions
[00:42:25.920]and maybe that's something we need to talk about it.
[00:42:28.440]Another episode about networking, yes
[00:42:29.299]Add it to the list.
[00:42:31.110]Add it to the list. All right.
[00:42:33.000]All right, So if you've made it this far, congratulations.
[00:42:36.540]You are at the point where you are trying to figure out
[00:42:40.740]how to finish up your dissertation
[00:42:42.690]as well as be on the job market.
[00:42:45.810]Keep in mind that there are particular ebbs and flows
[00:42:50.460]to the ways that the higher education job market works.
[00:42:53.040]Think through that early fall semester,
[00:42:54.960]early spring semester.
[00:42:56.730]The two biggest resources
[00:42:58.290]that you are going to be able to use during this time
[00:43:00.600]are gonna be your time and planning for that time
[00:43:03.000]and aligning that time with what you want to get done,
[00:43:06.060]and the people that you're surrounding yourself
[00:43:07.680]who are gonna help give you motivation to push forward
[00:43:11.100]and advice that's gonna move your dissertation
[00:43:13.290]and your job market search forward.
[00:43:16.410]And thinking through strategic marketing of yourself,
[00:43:20.610]strategic networking.
[00:43:23.340]It's a lot, but it's doable, it's doable.
[00:43:27.090]Yes, it is doable as long as you focus
[00:43:29.910]and limit outside distractions.
[00:43:31.740]But it does, yes, you have to limit your distractions,
[00:43:35.730]it's doable, it just feels like a lot and-
[00:43:39.582]And it is a lot.
[00:43:40.415]It does eventually end, right?
[00:43:41.430]Yes, yes, you will get the job.
[00:43:44.040]Right, hopefully.
[00:43:46.530]You will get a job. You will get a job.
[00:43:49.200]Maybe not doing that, no, you'll get a job.
[00:43:52.273]Right, and we can talk about settling another time.
[00:43:54.840]But thinking about that job market, it is doable,
[00:43:59.100]but it comes down to strategy.
[00:44:00.390]You don't wanna get overwhelmed,
[00:44:01.890]you want to feel like you're in control
[00:44:04.650]as much as you can be of that process.
[00:44:07.620]That's also part of what's gonna keep you
[00:44:09.270]not losing your mind during a time
[00:44:11.310]where it's gonna feel like there is a lot of ambiguity,
[00:44:14.070]there are a lot of things at play.
[00:44:16.560]So hopefully that has inspired you
[00:44:19.110]as you think about moving into your job search.
[00:44:24.810]But that's just random advice
[00:44:27.150]'cause we're not that kind of doctor.
[00:44:29.220]Although I don't know that that kind of doctor-
[00:44:30.660]We are that kind of doctor.
[00:44:31.900]We are this kind of doctor.
[00:44:32.733]Yes, yes we are.
[00:44:34.050]I'm trying to think of what a doctor doctor would say.
[00:44:38.010]Exercise?
[00:44:38.843]Get some exercise in while you're doing this.
[00:44:39.702]Get some exercise in.
[00:44:41.247]But yeah, happy job hunting.
[00:44:45.463](lively music)

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Not That Kind of Doctor - Job Hunting

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