S1E14: Part 2-Getting Comfortable with the Uncomfortable: Addressing Biases
Nebraska Extension Early Childhood Program Area-Emily Manning, Dr. Holly Hatton, Ingrid Lindal, Erin Kampbell, Linda Reddish, Katie Krause, and LaDonna Werth
Author
02/27/2024
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Description
Mismiki and Emily continue their discussion in this episode about Mismiki’s approach to teaching early childhood students about sensitive and complex topics like Black History Month and race. The importance of using simple concepts, age-appropriate vocabulary, and stimulating curiosity are emphasized. Mismiki urges fellow educators and parents to equip themselves with knowledge and conduct genuine conversations with children to promote acceptance and equality.
Link to the full-length interview with Mismiki Montgomery: https://mediahub.unl.edu/media/21941
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Afterparty Review by Sascha Ende
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/2962-afterparty-review
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
"Wholesome" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Searchable Transcript
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- [00:00:00.147](upbeat instrumental music)
- [00:00:04.890]This is "The Good Life in Early Life,"
- [00:00:08.310]a production of Nebraska Extension.
- [00:00:10.320]I'm your host, Emily Manning,
- [00:00:11.910]an Early Childhood Extension educator.
- [00:00:14.160]Thank you for tuning in to the second part
- [00:00:16.590]of the interview with Mismiki Montgomery.
- [00:00:19.020]We continue to discuss the need for diverse
- [00:00:21.450]and inclusive learning environments.
- [00:00:23.280]Our guest, Mismiki, goes into more details
- [00:00:26.100]about how to teach children about sensitive
- [00:00:28.170]and complex topics while still encouraging
- [00:00:30.630]children's participation and curiosity.
- [00:00:33.420]The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this episode
- [00:00:37.140]are that of the individuals and do not represent the views
- [00:00:40.470]of the University of Nebraska or Nebraska Extension.
- [00:00:44.910]So, basically because of that,
- [00:00:46.890]and because we don't have a curriculum book
- [00:00:49.860]in front of us that says teach this, teach this, teach this,
- [00:00:52.890]we wait till interests arise and then we teach around that.
- [00:00:55.920]Sometimes when we want to bring in some knowledge
- [00:01:00.090]about topics that they probably have no idea about,
- [00:01:02.850]like okay, what preschooler's gonna say,
- [00:01:04.957]"Hey, can we learn about Black History Month this week?"
- [00:01:06.810]I mean, there might be, Right (laughs).
- [00:01:08.490]but they might not even know it's Black History Month.
- [00:01:11.010]Then we as lead teachers will be like,
- [00:01:12.517]"Hey, did you guys know that this is the month
- [00:01:14.850]that we celebrate Black history?"
- [00:01:16.350]And we, you know, "Well, what is Black history?"
- [00:01:18.217]"Well, let me tell you."
- [00:01:19.200]And I will pose questions and read books
- [00:01:22.950]in a certain type of way
- [00:01:23.970]just to bring awareness around Blackness.
- [00:01:27.090]And so, because I'm comfortable with the uncomfortable
- [00:01:30.330]topic of talking about things like this
- [00:01:32.580]and because I love teaching early childhood,
- [00:01:35.550]and I know how the young brain works,
- [00:01:37.500]and I know how to slowly introduce a topic
- [00:01:41.970]and let it grow with the children.
- [00:01:44.850]I start small, and what do I start with?
- [00:01:47.850]I start with color.
- [00:01:48.750]Yeah (laughs). Okay?
- [00:01:50.220]This totally kills the colorblind argument,
- [00:01:52.470]that I don't see color.
- [00:01:53.610]I'm colorblind, I don't see color.
- [00:01:55.110]Young children learn their colors
- [00:01:56.940]very early on. Yeah.
- [00:01:57.900]So, what's the first thing
- [00:01:59.130]a young child can relate to, color.
- [00:02:01.320]And then from there we might do an activity
- [00:02:04.800]where we are noticing the different skin tones
- [00:02:07.110]and skin colors in the classroom, right?
- [00:02:08.940]And so, I make it personable for them.
- [00:02:11.520]This child has this skin tone,
- [00:02:12.810]this child has this skin tone.
- [00:02:13.920]Whoa, look at my skin tone.
- [00:02:15.060]And I might say, "Wait a minute, that's different."
- [00:02:17.580]And I start using vocabulary words
- [00:02:19.560]that are meaningful vocabulary words
- [00:02:22.350]that's gonna play a role down the road
- [00:02:25.140]when we get to the hard topic
- [00:02:26.710]Yeah. of what racism is, okay?
- [00:02:28.987]"Wait a minute, my skin color is different
- [00:02:31.230]than your skin color?"
- [00:02:32.070]This is me as a teacher being like,
- [00:02:33.967]"Oh, whoa, wait, is that okay?"
- [00:02:36.896]"Yeah!"
- [00:02:37.789](Emily laughing)
- [00:02:38.807]You know? Yeah.
- [00:02:39.640]I'll purposely ask questions
- [00:02:40.860]to see what their responses are,
- [00:02:42.300]because their responses are still very 100%
- [00:02:45.360]authentic and genuine. Yeah (laughs).
- [00:02:46.860]Right, and even if a child says, "No, that's not okay."
- [00:02:50.520]Let's say you have a child
- [00:02:51.870]who maybe has already had experiences
- [00:02:53.940]where they've taught not to accept
- [00:02:55.260]other people for their skin colors,
- [00:02:56.520]am I gonna get mad at them, no.
- [00:02:58.770]Would other people get mad at them?
- [00:03:00.180]You don't say that, don't say that.
- [00:03:01.966]Right. That's not okay.
- [00:03:02.799]Yeah, I could easily see that being a reaction
- [00:03:04.230]Okay. from teachers.
- [00:03:05.550]Because the teachers, or the person who says,
- [00:03:08.557]"Don't say that, that's not okay,"
- [00:03:09.720]was taught you don't talk about it.
- [00:03:11.550]That's not okay, don't bring it up.
- [00:03:13.290]Don't point out differences, that's rude.
- [00:03:15.780]No, it's not rude, it's not rude.
- [00:03:19.200]And we've gotta get out of that mindset
- [00:03:20.880]because the child is three, four, and five years old
- [00:03:24.900]and they are curious learners.
- [00:03:28.620]Right.
- [00:03:29.453]Okay, so the second you tell a child
- [00:03:31.770]don't talk about that, don't say that.
- [00:03:34.080]Don't say it's not okay to have different skin colors,
- [00:03:36.570]that child immediately is gonna shut down.
- [00:03:38.610]What did I do wrong?
- [00:03:39.690]I'm not supposed to say that.
- [00:03:40.890]Okay, I'm never gonna say that again
- [00:03:42.600]because the way I feel now 'cause I just got scolded
- [00:03:45.450]for saying yeah, it's not okay or yeah,
- [00:03:48.720]that skin color's different than mine.
- [00:03:50.160]I don't like that.
- [00:03:50.993]Or, I mean, I've had children say this before too,
- [00:03:54.540]right? Yeah.
- [00:03:55.373]I'm not going to get mad at them for the way they think
- [00:03:57.960]and the way they feel.
- [00:03:59.160]I don't know what experiences they've had,
- [00:04:01.350]I don't know if they've been taught to say that.
- [00:04:03.960]I don't, that's not something I need to sit as the educator
- [00:04:08.100]and assume about a young child that I have in front of me
- [00:04:11.400]that's impressionable when I could take this
- [00:04:14.220]and I could make it into a learning experience
- [00:04:16.770]that's a positive learning experience.
- [00:04:18.810]Regardless of what that child thinks or feels,
- [00:04:21.690]regardless of what that parent has taught that child.
- [00:04:24.600]That five year old that told my son
- [00:04:26.730]he couldn't come to his birthday party
- [00:04:28.200]because he didn't wanna make his mom puke
- [00:04:30.090]because his mom doesn't like Brown people,
- [00:04:31.620]and she literally throws up
- [00:04:33.150]when Brown people are around, right?
- [00:04:35.430]That little kid didn't hate my son.
- [00:04:37.860]No.
- [00:04:38.820]He didn't wanna make his mom sick.
- [00:04:40.560]So, if I've got that little kid in my class and I say,
- [00:04:43.507]"Hey, why do you think Brown people make your mom sick?"
- [00:04:48.697]"Well, she told me that this and this and this,"
- [00:04:51.390]and he's gonna innocently,
- [00:04:52.500]like he's gonna be sitting next to my son,
- [00:04:54.120]he's gonna be sitting next to the Brown child
- [00:04:56.040]with his arm around him probably
- [00:04:57.467](Emily laughing) 'cause they were
- [00:04:58.300]that good buddies.
- [00:04:59.133]"Well, she just told me that Brown people make her sick.
- [00:05:00.780]I don't wanna make my mom sick.
- [00:05:02.067]So, I just don't want him to come to my birthday party.
- [00:05:03.840]I wanted him to come to my birthday party,
- [00:05:05.580]but I don't wanna make my mom sick."
- [00:05:07.387]"Oh, gosh, how did that make you feel?"
- [00:05:09.847]"It made me feel bad though 'cause BJ's my friend
- [00:05:12.690]and my mom is my mom and, it just made me feel bad."
- [00:05:16.530]They're able to talk about their feelings.
- [00:05:17.670]We talk about feelings in early childhood,
- [00:05:19.320]but what I'm not gonna do is make that child feel bad.
- [00:05:21.330]If a child doesn't wanna talk about it
- [00:05:22.590]I'm not gonna make that child feel uncomfortable.
- [00:05:24.630]Any feeling that's a negative feeling that you correlate
- [00:05:27.750]with a topic that's a difficult topic
- [00:05:29.790]is going to stick with that child.
- [00:05:31.440]And then it's gonna be-- Make them not
- [00:05:33.000]wanna explore it.
- [00:05:33.833]Make them not wanna explore it,
- [00:05:35.520]make them feel like that it shouldn't be talked about.
- [00:05:39.450]And that's what generation after generation after generation
- [00:05:43.140]has had said to them as young children,
- [00:05:45.450]don't look at that person in that wheelchair.
- [00:05:47.640]Don't look at that person over there
- [00:05:49.710]that looks different than you.
- [00:05:51.120]Stop staring, that's rude.
- [00:05:52.620]Don't go up and talk to them.
- [00:05:53.880]What are you doing, get back over here.
- [00:05:55.290]And so, immediately there's this feeling of okay,
- [00:05:57.870]that's wrong, that's wrong,
- [00:05:58.950]that's wrong. Yeah.
- [00:05:59.783]I'm not gonna do it again, I'm not gonna do it again.
- [00:06:01.110]Right.
- [00:06:01.943]So, those feelings stick with you.
- [00:06:03.930]You remember those.
- [00:06:05.220]Remember I said those first five years of brain development
- [00:06:07.980]and experiences are the most impressionable years
- [00:06:10.560]and the quickest time of growth for the brain.
- [00:06:12.600]You don't forget that.
- [00:06:13.470]You might not be able to put your finger on it
- [00:06:15.210]and name the exact experience,
- [00:06:16.830]but you remember that feeling, okay?
- [00:06:18.600]For a young child when they feel that, they remember that,
- [00:06:22.140]they don't wanna go back to that.
- [00:06:23.340]Right, yeah. Okay?
- [00:06:24.450]They don't even know how to fully process those feelings
- [00:06:26.850]or even put a name on that feeling yet,
- [00:06:28.800]but they know how to feel it
- [00:06:30.240]if they're made to feel that way, okay?
- [00:06:32.100]So, I got a simple question
- [00:06:33.960]for you. Yeah, yeah.
- [00:06:34.793]Going back to the response of,
- [00:06:36.210]like when you were talking about the differences in skin
- [00:06:38.610]and saying like, "Is that okay that mine's different?"
- [00:06:41.940]And then a child might say, "No, it's not."
- [00:06:44.580]I don't think I would know how to respond.
- [00:06:47.070]Right. Truthfully.
- [00:06:47.903]Yeah, what would be, Can you give me a script?
- [00:06:49.333]What would be--
- [00:06:50.166](Emily and Mismiki laughing)
- [00:06:51.154]So, how do you think you would respond, and be honest.
- [00:06:53.100]How do you think you
- [00:06:53.933]would respond to that? (Emily laughing)
- [00:06:55.110]Because immediately you would probably be offended
- [00:06:58.230]or upset that that child would say no, it's not okay.
- [00:07:01.119]Probably like (gasps) Charlie, you said that?
- [00:07:03.090]Yeah.
- [00:07:04.072]You know? Like no, you don't say that.
- [00:07:05.200]Yeah. You're telling
- [00:07:06.150]this child that he shouldn't feel,
- [00:07:07.770]Right.
- [00:07:08.820]he shouldn't answer that.
- [00:07:09.840]And that shouldn't be his answer.
- [00:07:11.536]Right? Right, yeah.
- [00:07:12.369]So, then I would be like, "Oh."
- [00:07:13.230]So, I think maybe like after my initial like,
- [00:07:16.320]oh, that just happened, he just said that.
- [00:07:18.150]I think I would say maybe why not?
- [00:07:20.940]Yeah.
- [00:07:21.773]Or like what makes you think that?
- [00:07:22.710]Yes.
- [00:07:23.543]Okay. Yes.
- [00:07:24.810]But I think it would take me a second though
- [00:07:26.340]to get there, to be honest (laughs).
- [00:07:27.173]Well, but yeah, it probably would.
- [00:07:29.400]Yeah.
- [00:07:30.233]But that's exactly what you say, right?
- [00:07:31.770]You're interviewing the child,
- [00:07:33.070]okay? Yeah.
- [00:07:33.960]You're letting that child have the spotlight
- [00:07:35.670]and you're letting him know or her know
- [00:07:37.410]that his responses are valid,
- [00:07:39.390]and that you're hearing his response,
- [00:07:41.490]whether you agree with it or not.
- [00:07:43.892]Yeah. It's not about that.
- [00:07:44.725]Because he's five, he's four, (Emily laughing)
- [00:07:49.020]Yeah. okay?
- [00:07:49.860]He's gonna tell you that T-Rex
- [00:07:51.450]was at his house last night
- [00:07:52.500]eating macaroni and cheese. (Emily laughing)
- [00:07:54.647]Right? Right.
- [00:07:55.770]And also tell you that no,
- [00:07:57.630]it's not okay that your skin is brown
- [00:07:58.950]and my skin's a different color.
- [00:08:00.180]Immediately as adults we go to the experiences
- [00:08:04.170]that we've had that make us uncomfortable
- [00:08:06.210]with talking about that topic.
- [00:08:07.680]So, then our reaction comes out with that same topic,
- [00:08:11.490]and with that type of response.
- [00:08:13.050]So, we project onto the child,
- [00:08:15.660]we project our feelings about the uncomfortable topic
- [00:08:19.290]onto the young child instead of digging deeper
- [00:08:23.490]and going further and wanting to know
- [00:08:26.130]why that child feels that way.
- [00:08:27.660]So, you're exactly right Emily.
- [00:08:29.220]You say you feel that having
- [00:08:32.310]different skin colors is not okay.
- [00:08:35.767]"Uh-huh, it is okay," friends are gonna chime in.
- [00:08:38.797]"Yeah, it is, you shouldn't say that."
- [00:08:40.867]"Well, hold on friends, it's okay if he feels differently."
- [00:08:44.400]Do you notice how I'm using the vocabulary?
- [00:08:46.020]Mm-hmm. Okay.
- [00:08:47.040]It's okay if he feels differently, that's intentional,
- [00:08:49.620]because he's showing a different opinion, a different view.
- [00:08:53.940]It still matches in that we're different.
- [00:08:55.680]Right. All right?
- [00:08:56.520]I'm showing that I'm accepting
- [00:08:58.200]the different way that he thinks.
- [00:08:59.700]I'm role modeling what it looks like to speak to somebody
- [00:09:03.570]who said something that feels offensive or feels wrong,
- [00:09:06.870]but he still has the right to feel different, okay?
- [00:09:11.280]And so, I'm purposely gonna be like,
- [00:09:12.907]"You feel differently about that,
- [00:09:15.180]you feel different than Sarah feels about it.
- [00:09:17.850]Sarah says it's okay to have different skin colors.
- [00:09:20.100]You're saying it's not okay, tell me more.
- [00:09:22.050]Why do you feel that way?"
- [00:09:23.010]And then allow the child to say what he has to say.
- [00:09:26.460]It's probably gonna be something really innocent.
- [00:09:29.820]Yeah (laughs). And oftentimes it is
- [00:09:32.790]because we as adult think it's something else
- [00:09:36.390]is gonna come out that's really inappropriate or offensive.
- [00:09:39.990]Right, and it might not even be that.
- [00:09:42.210]It might not even be that, Yeah (laughs).
- [00:09:43.497]but we go there, as adults, we go there.
- [00:09:46.620]'Cause we are taught that that's not okay.
- [00:09:49.050]We were brought up to believe it's not okay
- [00:09:51.180]to talk about differences, talk about different skin colors,
- [00:09:54.510]compare different skin colors.
- [00:09:56.160]We've got all these fears that are sitting
- [00:09:58.080]with us from our experiences.
- [00:09:59.400]We assume this child's gonna say something that's not okay.
- [00:10:02.280]So, then what if the child does say something, well,
- [00:10:03.750]my dad said that Brown people and Black people,
- [00:10:06.630]blah, blah, blah, and that White people, blah, blah, blah?
- [00:10:09.150]Yeah, what do we do?
- [00:10:09.983]What do we do?
- [00:10:10.890]Yeah.
- [00:10:11.932]What do you think?
- [00:10:12.765]Oh gosh.
- [00:10:13.598]Well, I think that's hard
- [00:10:14.730]because that's what the family has taught them,
- [00:10:16.650]and obviously that's the family values.
- [00:10:19.080]And you need to, I mean, you kind of need to accept it.
- [00:10:23.190]Yeah, you do need to accept it.
- [00:10:24.960]Yeah.
- [00:10:25.793]Because he's not gonna know.
- [00:10:26.880]Right. He's not gonna know
- [00:10:28.320]what you know as an adult.
- [00:10:30.270]And what happens if you say something in a certain tone
- [00:10:33.720]or in a certain way to make him feel bad
- [00:10:36.270]about his mom and dad?
- [00:10:37.470]It is gonna make him become so recluse
- [00:10:39.330]that he's not gonna wanna participate
- [00:10:40.470]in the conversation anymore. Yeah.
- [00:10:41.820]He might sink back in his chair,
- [00:10:43.740]sit on the rug and be like, "Wait a minute.
- [00:10:45.390]But my mom and dad love me."
- [00:10:47.520]So, as an educator you have to check yourself.
- [00:10:51.496]Yeah (laughs).
- [00:10:52.500]You have to learn how to check yourself.
- [00:10:54.690]Mm-hmm Okay?
- [00:10:55.620]And guess what?
- [00:10:56.453]You're not gonna get it right the first time.
- [00:10:57.900]But if you're aware that you made a comment
- [00:11:00.630]or you said something, or you shut that child down
- [00:11:03.240]and you made that child feel a certain type of way
- [00:11:05.100]just don't do it next time,
- [00:11:06.420]you know? Yeah.
- [00:11:07.253]And humble yourself.
- [00:11:08.086]I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
- [00:11:09.900]Like adults think we have to be perfect
- [00:11:11.820]in the front of the eyes of a child.
- [00:11:13.080]We don't, that is so not true.
- [00:11:15.992](Emily laughing)
- [00:11:16.825]Okay, I'm sorry.
- [00:11:17.700]You had something you wanted to say,
- [00:11:20.010]and it's okay for you to think differently.
- [00:11:21.900]It's okay for you to think differently.
- [00:11:23.310]I was worried that you were gonna say something
- [00:11:25.710]to hurt somebody's feelings.
- [00:11:27.452]Yeah. I was worried
- [00:11:28.285]that Tommy over here who has brown skin,
- [00:11:29.850]I was worried that Tommy was gonna be sad.
- [00:11:31.530]Tommy, are you sad?
- [00:11:32.580]No, Tommy has no idea
- [00:11:33.690]what's going. (Emily laughing)
- [00:11:34.537]And maybe he does, but let's just say.
- [00:11:36.660]That's what I mean by we project ourselves
- [00:11:39.150]Yeah. onto the thoughts
- [00:11:39.983]of young children because they haven't had those
- [00:11:41.820]in-depth experiences yet to think the way
- [00:11:43.740]that we think as adults.
- [00:11:44.760]But if we react in a way where we make them feel
- [00:11:48.120]like that their responses are wrong
- [00:11:50.790]you are shutting down the option to have conversations
- [00:11:53.610]and talk about race.
- [00:11:54.840]You are shutting down the options to even get
- [00:11:56.910]to where we can show them in a positive light
- [00:11:59.880]how beautiful it is to accept differences
- [00:12:02.220]instead of right then and there the first conversation
- [00:12:04.620]being like you're wrong for pointing out
- [00:12:07.400]that difference is not good.
- [00:12:08.490]Yeah, 'cause within that conversation
- [00:12:10.560]you're modeling right from the get go
- [00:12:13.470]that you're gonna accept differences.
- [00:12:15.120]Yep.
- [00:12:16.100]Differences of opinion,
- [00:12:16.933]Yeah.
- [00:12:17.766]differences of all kind. Yep.
- [00:12:18.599]And that's what, it sounds like
- [00:12:19.650]that's the base you start from.
- [00:12:21.390]Yeah.
- [00:12:22.223]Yeah.
- [00:12:23.056]I don't have to agree with the child.
- [00:12:23.889]Yeah.
- [00:12:24.722]I can have a conversation with an adult,
- [00:12:25.620]I don't have to agree with the adult.
- [00:12:27.399]Yeah.
- [00:12:28.232]Because that adult does not know what it's like
- [00:12:29.700]to live in the skin I'm in,
- [00:12:31.140]right? Yeah.
- [00:12:31.973]But I also don't know what it's like
- [00:12:32.806]to live in their skin.
- [00:12:33.780]True.
- [00:12:34.613]So, talking about some of those topics are deep,
- [00:12:38.130]they're heavy.
- [00:12:39.240]Do you explore some of those
- [00:12:41.040]Oh yeah. with children?
- [00:12:41.940]You do.
- [00:12:42.773]I do, I do. Yeah.
- [00:12:43.606]I feel comfortable doing that.
- [00:12:45.360]I love it.
- [00:12:46.193]So, we had the Buffett Institute here
- [00:12:47.430]a couple semesters ago, and they were doing a study,
- [00:12:50.640]a research study, on how to talk about topics like this
- [00:12:54.030]in early childhood.
- [00:12:54.900]Yeah. And two of my other
- [00:12:56.550]coworkers did it with me.
- [00:12:58.410]And it wasn't just about the topic about race,
- [00:13:02.250]it was about just equity and inclusion
- [00:13:04.140]and diversity period.
- [00:13:05.310]And so, as we know, equity, inclusion, diversity,
- [00:13:07.680]a lot of people go to skin color and race,
- [00:13:09.300]and think about that first.
- [00:13:10.410]But we're talking about neurodiversity,
- [00:13:12.330]we're talking about behaviors,
- [00:13:13.980]we're talking about all types of holidays and traditions
- [00:13:17.640]that are celebrated in all types of cultures.
- [00:13:20.550]But for me I stick with what I am familiar with
- [00:13:23.760]and what I feel like most people
- [00:13:25.410]are uncomfortable talking about,
- [00:13:26.790]and it's usually Black history and race
- [00:13:28.890]and accepting differences.
- [00:13:31.350]Yeah.
- [00:13:32.183]I always start with what children already know
- [00:13:34.920]and what is simple, and then I expand
- [00:13:37.410]because their brains are sponges.
- [00:13:39.090]They know how to learn.
- [00:13:41.280]Don't assume a child cannot understand a lesson.
- [00:13:44.880]The more you use it in context,
- [00:13:47.340]and the more you use it in their experiences
- [00:13:49.290]the more they understand it.
- [00:13:50.430]So, you take what your classroom of children already know
- [00:13:54.060]about a topic and you expand on that topic.
- [00:13:56.790]And I choose to expand it
- [00:13:59.010]into those challenging conversations.
- [00:14:01.200]I have books in my library.
- [00:14:03.030]Every teacher has teacher books, special books,
- [00:14:04.920]right? Yeah.
- [00:14:05.753]And I buy books that the children have never read before
- [00:14:08.820]that probably that they don't have at home, you know?
- [00:14:11.640]And we have discussions about them in our class.
- [00:14:14.970]We talk, we might not get through the whole book
- [00:14:16.740]because we come to a page where they're like, "Wait, what?"
- [00:14:19.440]They know what fair and unfair is.
- [00:14:21.990]They know that.
- [00:14:23.010]You turn that this is not fair, this is fair,
- [00:14:25.860]you turn that into the word justice.
- [00:14:28.050]Ah. They're gonna,
- [00:14:29.400]they're gonna get that.
- [00:14:30.780]They're going to, it's going to stick with them.
- [00:14:33.060]That's what fair and unfair is.
- [00:14:34.380]Yep.
- [00:14:35.213]Justice and injustice.
- [00:14:36.046]Right.
- [00:14:37.083]So, what do the children already know
- [00:14:38.430]at a very innocent, simple level?
- [00:14:41.730]They know the difference.
- [00:14:43.020]Well, they know what different means
- [00:14:45.210]'cause they're taught comparison.
- [00:14:47.070]So, you bring in these words,
- [00:14:49.350]you bring in what they already know,
- [00:14:50.970]what they're already familiar with,
- [00:14:52.260]and you pair it with a term that is probably a term
- [00:14:56.610]that an adult's gonna be like,
- [00:14:57.443]"Oh, don't use that term with that child.
- [00:14:58.800]They're not gonna know that."
- [00:14:59.633]Well, they're not gonna know that
- [00:15:00.510]unless they're introduced to it.
- [00:15:01.800]Right.
- [00:15:02.633]They're not gonna know that
- [00:15:03.888]unless they're made aware of it.
- [00:15:04.740]They're not gonna know that unless
- [00:15:06.240]after they're introduced to it and made aware of it
- [00:15:07.830]it's used in context, you know what I mean?
- [00:15:10.339]Yeah.
- [00:15:11.172]And then they'll know.
- [00:15:12.005]And then I also will send emails to parents and say,
- [00:15:13.417]"Hey, we had a conversation today
- [00:15:15.420]that was a hard conversation,
- [00:15:16.890]and I wanna tell you how it went.
- [00:15:18.540]And I want to share with you some things
- [00:15:20.520]that the kids might be saying when they come home tonight."
- [00:15:22.410]And I make parents aware of you might hear this term,
- [00:15:25.110]this is how I explained this term.
- [00:15:26.790]This is why it's important for us
- [00:15:29.010]to talk about this in the class.
- [00:15:30.900]This happened the other day when so and so made fun
- [00:15:34.380]of the other person's skin color.
- [00:15:35.970]This happened the other day when a child
- [00:15:38.040]made fun of somebody's hijab.
- [00:15:39.540]And I put it in context for them
- [00:15:41.730]that when these things arise we talk about it.
- [00:15:44.340]Yeah.
- [00:15:45.173]We bring it up and we talk about it,
- [00:15:46.290]and we talk about it in a developmentally appropriate way.
- [00:15:48.570]But then we continue to revisit it.
- [00:15:50.280]You don't just make it a one time lesson.
- [00:15:52.350]We'll go back and we'll say,
- [00:15:53.183]"Remember when we talked about this?"
- [00:15:54.690]Because kids learn by repetition.
- [00:15:56.100]So, you can't just assume that one book,
- [00:15:58.170]reading it one time, is gonna be enough
- [00:15:59.940]for them to really understand anything, you know?
- [00:16:02.340]Yeah.
- [00:16:03.173]But then it's wonderful
- [00:16:04.136]'cause then it comes up in conversation.
- [00:16:04.969]"Oh, Teacher Miki, remember when we talked,
- [00:16:06.510]and remember when so and so said it wasn't okay
- [00:16:08.460]to have a different skin color.
- [00:16:09.870]You remember that?
- [00:16:10.703]I told my mom that and my mom said this,"
- [00:16:12.420]and blah, blah, blah.
- [00:16:13.253]And it starts conversations at home.
- [00:16:15.480]And then that makes it even more meaningful
- [00:16:17.010]and impactful to the young child, right?
- [00:16:18.840]Now, if a parent's unhappy about it I will say,
- [00:16:20.917]"Please come speak with me if you need to,
- [00:16:23.250]if you would like to learn more,
- [00:16:24.360]if you have any further questions about this topic.
- [00:16:26.760]But then also my leader, the director, makes it very clear
- [00:16:30.810]at this school we will have these conversations.
- [00:16:33.480]This is important for what we feel like
- [00:16:35.730]is the future of child development.
- [00:16:37.290]And I have not always worked in places like that.
- [00:16:39.839]I was gonna say Nope.
- [00:16:40.860]not everywhere is gonna have that level of support.
- [00:16:43.440]Nope, no, because you'll have people that shut it down
- [00:16:45.510]and say don't talk about that.
- [00:16:46.650]I don't wanna start that with parents.
- [00:16:47.940]I don't wanna upset people. Right,
- [00:16:49.475]yeah. I don't wanna, no,
- [00:16:50.308]this is inappropriate because of the way they feel
- [00:16:52.110]and their biases and how it will shut down
- [00:16:55.200]important conversations that need to be had.
- [00:16:57.870]I am where I know I'm received for what I have to bring
- [00:17:02.220]Yeah.
- [00:17:03.053]to the educational world.
- [00:17:04.170]Yeah.
- [00:17:05.003]University of Lincoln, I love you.
- [00:17:06.510]Yay (laughs).
- [00:17:07.800]I really do. Good.
- [00:17:08.790]College of Education and Human Sciences, I love you.
- [00:17:11.400]Child, Youth Yeah.
- [00:17:12.233]and Family Studies Department, I love you.
- [00:17:13.650]I wouldn't be here.
- [00:17:14.820]I've had to go through some obstacles to realize
- [00:17:18.750]that here I can be my authentic educator self.
- [00:17:21.780]Some obstacles that I never thought
- [00:17:23.190]would've been an obstacle (laughs) in some situations.
- [00:17:26.370]I wouldn't be able to be here
- [00:17:27.420]having this conversation with you
- [00:17:28.680]and being interviewed on this podcast and being authentic
- [00:17:30.780]about how Yeah.
- [00:17:32.550]I teach this in an Early Childhood classroom,
- [00:17:35.370]which is why I know I'm right
- [00:17:37.110]where I'm supposed to be right now.
- [00:17:38.640]But it helps to have leaders who support you.
- [00:17:42.150]And what I've found out, I guess what I can say is
- [00:17:44.760]that it doesn't matter in my situation.
- [00:17:47.910]It doesn't matter what color that leader is.
- [00:17:51.030]I have had leaders of color
- [00:17:52.830]that I thought would be way more supportive
- [00:17:56.040]because we can relate Yeah.
- [00:17:57.080]on a whole nother level of being people of color,
- [00:17:59.280]and that was not the case.
- [00:18:00.360]And then I have a leader now who wants
- [00:18:04.680]so badly the same things that I want when it comes
- [00:18:08.010]to social justice, wants so badly.
- [00:18:11.280]And we have conversations about things that
- [00:18:14.100]she doesn't understand but wants to understand,
- [00:18:16.560]and wants so badly for young children to understand
- [00:18:19.830]because she knows that they're gonna grow up
- [00:18:22.800]with the experiences that they've had with me,
- [00:18:24.630]the lessons that they've had with me, right?
- [00:18:26.550]The representation they have with me as a woman of color
- [00:18:29.610]in the classroom, positive experiences,
- [00:18:31.920]positive conversations, meaningful relationships.
- [00:18:35.580]And that's going to help them in their future
- [00:18:38.880]look through a different lens.
- [00:18:40.350]Yeah.
- [00:18:41.183]'Cause me and her, everybody here
- [00:18:42.660]that works here, Yeah.
- [00:18:43.493]we are all on the same page
- [00:18:44.940]when it comes to the importance
- [00:18:46.200]of early childhood experiences
- [00:18:48.000]and what they're gonna walk away with.
- [00:18:50.700]And I love being that part here.
- [00:18:53.000]And I think that anybody can walk into this building
- [00:18:56.250]or walk into the outdoor classroom
- [00:18:58.410]and they can pick up on that immediately,
- [00:19:00.930]like that culture. Yeah.
- [00:19:02.370]Well, there's one topic that we haven't discussed yet
- [00:19:04.530]that I think is both,
- [00:19:05.550]that is important to both of us to get to.
- [00:19:08.520]And that's what does equity mean and look like
- [00:19:12.630]in the early childhood environment?
- [00:19:15.090]I have yet to see that because of the cold, hard facts
- [00:19:20.490]of oppression still happening to a degree
- [00:19:23.880]that you cannot have an equitable Early Childhood classroom
- [00:19:28.200]until you have people of all types of differences
- [00:19:32.040]in every single classroom, to me.
- [00:19:34.740]This might be different for somebody else
- [00:19:36.690]as far as what they would define equity
- [00:19:39.240]in an early care environment.
- [00:19:40.710]But to me a mixture of socioeconomic backgrounds,
- [00:19:44.940]a mixture of ethnicities, a mixture of cultures,
- [00:19:49.950]a mixture of privileged White young children,
- [00:19:55.050]underprivileged White young children,
- [00:19:57.720]privileged Black young children,
- [00:19:59.850]underprivileged Black young children.
- [00:20:02.130]Children from different cultural,
- [00:20:04.470]traditional backgrounds coming all together.
- [00:20:07.230]Like you see those clip art of the globe,
- [00:20:11.130]and then all around the globe
- [00:20:12.570]you see all these different ethnicities of children.
- [00:20:15.690]To me that looks like an equitable classroom.
- [00:20:18.120]Got it.
- [00:20:18.953]I'd be curious to know what other
- [00:20:20.130]early childhood educators would say to answer that question
- [00:20:22.920]because I think so deeply about how I don't know
- [00:20:26.820]how you could truly make an equitable classroom
- [00:20:30.000]without having everybody from so many different backgrounds,
- [00:20:33.480]families with children from so many different backgrounds
- [00:20:37.050]in the same class
- [00:20:39.109]Yeah. so that we could
- [00:20:39.942]really learn from each other
- [00:20:41.220]and the differences of our experiences.
- [00:20:43.110]Because you can only really honestly learn equity
- [00:20:47.190]when you know the reality of somebody else's culture,
- [00:20:50.940]somebody else's upbringing, somebody else's experience.
- [00:20:53.730]Now, if we were just talking about here in Nebraska,
- [00:20:56.670]Yeah.
- [00:20:57.503]what does equity look like in the early care environment?
- [00:20:59.700]It would be kind of the same.
- [00:21:01.230]So, I kind of just kind of give a global answer.
- [00:21:03.270]It would be the same for the community.
- [00:21:06.180]You can't just have the elite over here
- [00:21:08.550]getting all the brand new resources, all the best equipment,
- [00:21:12.780]brand new building, safe area,
- [00:21:16.260]and then this group of preschoolers over here in a rundown,
- [00:21:21.750]broken down building that's falling apart with nothing
- [00:21:24.990]but plastic toys bought from garage sales
- [00:21:27.660]and educators or teachers or providers
- [00:21:32.250]who haven't been taught how to truly help
- [00:21:36.360]children develop at an early age.
- [00:21:38.370]There's such, there's such a gap.
- [00:21:40.830]Yeah, there really is. There's such a gap.
- [00:21:42.720]Can be, yeah,
- [00:21:43.553]there can be. Because then we haven't
- [00:21:44.430]even talked about affordability (laughs).
- [00:21:46.200]Yeah (laughs).
- [00:21:47.790]'Cause money gives-- Determines where,
- [00:21:50.430]what your options are.
- [00:21:51.660]Yeah.
- [00:21:52.493]What your choices are.
- [00:21:53.326]Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, mm-hmm.
- [00:21:55.210]Yeah, I don't know, I don't know
- [00:21:56.190]if that answers your questions, but I don't know.
- [00:21:57.810]I feel like that's not an easy answer 'cause
- [00:21:59.886]like (laughs). No, it's not an easy answer
- [00:22:01.080]because we haven't seen it yet, right?
- [00:22:02.340]No, we haven't. Yeah, we're working
- [00:22:03.750]towards that. Yeah,
- [00:22:04.830]Yeah. And how do you answer
- [00:22:05.663]a question when we don't,
- [00:22:06.600]Yeah, let's just keep don't have that yet.
- [00:22:07.470]working towards that,
- [00:22:08.430]let's keep working Yeah.
- [00:22:09.932]towards that, but we can't be afraid to mix.
- [00:22:11.280]We can't be afraid to mix
- [00:22:12.480]Right.
- [00:22:13.313]with people that we're uncomfortable with,
- [00:22:14.580]with socioeconomic backgrounds, differences, cultures
- [00:22:17.700]that we're uncomfortable with
- [00:22:18.720]or we're told to be uncomfortable with, you know?
- [00:22:20.250]And really, ultimately, that'll be up to the parents, so.
- [00:22:22.770]What are they comfortable with
- [00:22:23.850]and what are they willing to
- [00:22:25.150]'Cause it's not up
- [00:22:25.983]to the child. experience.
- [00:22:26.816]No (laughs) no. So,
- [00:22:28.253]the child won't know any different.
- [00:22:30.180]They'll have a great experience
- [00:22:31.710]being able to work with, play with,
- [00:22:34.350]sit at the same table and eat with
- [00:22:36.180]children who are different than them.
- [00:22:38.040]Oh, the lessons I could come up with (laughs).
- [00:22:40.757](Emily laughing) Oh, the conversations
- [00:22:41.670]I would be able to have.
- [00:22:44.524]The differences we would be able to point out
- [00:22:46.230]and celebrate the conflict resolutions
- [00:22:49.680]that we would have from families from very,
- [00:22:52.170]two, three, four, five, six very different backgrounds.
- [00:22:54.870]I would love the opportunity to be able to do that someday.
- [00:22:57.180]I would love for that for you too.
- [00:22:58.560]Yeah, and for pre-service teachers
- [00:23:01.050]Yeah. to be able
- [00:23:01.883]to experience themselves.
- [00:23:04.080]There's a teaching crisis right now,
- [00:23:05.730]and a lot of it has to do with because post pandemic
- [00:23:08.220]the behaviors of children,
- [00:23:09.567]and a lot of our poverty-stricken communities,
- [00:23:12.420]the attitude from the parents and it trickles down
- [00:23:15.300]to the children, and it's been really difficult
- [00:23:18.090]for our teachers right now.
- [00:23:19.770]Very difficult.
- [00:23:20.610]What if we gave them the skills
- [00:23:22.230]that they could have to be able to manage their classrooms
- [00:23:25.320]by experiencing some of these cultures
- [00:23:28.200]and some of the children who struggle to know what it's like
- [00:23:31.530]to succeed in an environment,
- [00:23:34.269]In a classroom environment.
- [00:23:35.131]in a classroom environment Yeah.
- [00:23:36.300]where there's opportunity to not be shut down
- [00:23:38.820]for who you are, to be fully accepted for who you are.
- [00:23:41.490]And then to be able to grow from that.
- [00:23:43.320]To feel safe, to feel like you belong, to feel accepted,
- [00:23:47.520]and to not be your being who you are.
- [00:23:49.800]To not get in trouble for being just who you are,
- [00:23:52.710]but to have people who are qualified to help shape
- [00:23:56.640]who you are into somebody that you can love, learning,
- [00:24:02.160]teaching you to love yourself.
- [00:24:03.810]What if we could do all of that before age five,
- [00:24:05.640]and then send them out there?
- [00:24:06.720]Send them on to kindergarten and first grade and,
- [00:24:09.094]oh, into the, you know what I mean?
- [00:24:09.927]into the public schools. Yeah.
- [00:24:11.105]'Cause after early childhood they move on.
- [00:24:14.580]Whether it's public school or whatever.
- [00:24:16.650]I mean, again, that first five years--
- [00:24:19.020]Sets 'em up for the rest of their life.
- [00:24:21.120]That's how I feel.
- [00:24:21.990]Yeah, I fully agree with that.
- [00:24:23.430]But I mean, that's why we're in this profession,
- [00:24:25.260]right (laughs)? Yeah.
- [00:24:26.093]Absolutely, absolutely.
- [00:24:27.360]All right, so we are at our final time for the podcast.
- [00:24:32.490]Any last parting words or anything that you wanna impart
- [00:24:36.900]to our listeners before we end our show?
- [00:24:39.360]First of all, these are all, everything that I've shared
- [00:24:42.270]with you is my personal feelings, opinions, experiences
- [00:24:46.350]that have shaped my thought process
- [00:24:48.990]on what I feel like should be something
- [00:24:52.590]that's addressed in early childhood.
- [00:24:54.150]But on that note I encourage not just teachers,
- [00:24:58.800]but parents to do the work that it takes
- [00:25:03.330]to visit your childhood, to visit your upbringing,
- [00:25:07.770]to visit your ideas, your thoughts
- [00:25:11.400]on what you think race is, what you think racism is,
- [00:25:16.260]why you think that way,
- [00:25:17.940]and what you would be willing to learn more of
- [00:25:21.450]so that you could have comfortable conversations,
- [00:25:25.710]or at least meaningful conversations,
- [00:25:27.990]or just start somewhere with any type of conversation
- [00:25:30.780]to bring this up with children.
- [00:25:32.700]Young children, Yeah.
- [00:25:33.630]elementary school children, middle school children,
- [00:25:35.670]there are so many resources out there now
- [00:25:37.890]on how to have these conversations.
- [00:25:39.570]And the first step I think is talk about it,
- [00:25:42.210]is find people that you feel safe talking about it with.
- [00:25:45.030]Because then that's the other thing.
- [00:25:46.080]You gotta find somebody that's not gonna shut you down
- [00:25:48.210]and make you feel bad for talking about it,
- [00:25:50.520]for wanting to know more, for asking questions.
- [00:25:52.890]Find a safe person, find a safe place.
- [00:25:55.230]And then if you haven't found that safe person
- [00:25:57.740]or that safe place keep searching.
- [00:25:59.580]There's more of us out there that wanna help educate
- [00:26:02.370]and not get mad at people that want to learn more.
- [00:26:04.890]Yeah.
- [00:26:05.723]It's not necessarily to change the way you think.
- [00:26:08.760]And if it does, okay,
- [00:26:10.860]but at least you have a balanced view of things
- [00:26:14.940]Right.
- [00:26:15.773]instead of just your view.
- [00:26:16.606]Yeah. Right?
- [00:26:17.439]There are lots of identities in this world
- [00:26:19.230]that I cannot identify with, you know?
- [00:26:21.060]There are lots of ways of life in this world
- [00:26:23.520]that I may not agree with 'cause I don't understand it,
- [00:26:27.030]and it makes me uncomfortable, okay?
- [00:26:29.100]But because I've lived in my position
- [00:26:31.590]I'm willing to listen to somebody else
- [00:26:33.600]tell me about their position,
- [00:26:36.415]and at least accept that for them, right?
- [00:26:39.510]I don't have to be them,
- [00:26:41.010]I don't have to change my lifestyle to be like them,
- [00:26:43.860]but I can be okay that this is,
- [00:26:45.750]this is your, this is your truth.
- [00:26:47.820]Yeah. Okay?
- [00:26:48.653]Well, thank you so much Yeah (laughs).
- [00:26:50.941]for this conversation and this time.
- [00:26:53.040]I've really enjoyed it, and I would look forward
- [00:26:56.580]to having another conversation with you.
- [00:26:58.230]Sure. This topic is so important
- [00:27:00.300]Yeah, and the more to address and discuss.
- [00:27:01.710]we talk about it
- [00:27:02.979]and the more we learn-- Yes,
- [00:27:03.812]the easier it gets, right?
- [00:27:04.645]The easier it gets,
- [00:27:05.478]Yeah. yep.
- [00:27:06.311]Thanks again. Thank you,
- [00:27:07.144]thank you Emily so much, I appreciate it.
- [00:27:08.130]This interview with Mismiki Montgomery is available
- [00:27:11.340]in its entirety without any edits
- [00:27:13.500]beyond basic sound quality improvements on UNL's MediaHub.
- [00:27:17.460]The link to the full-length interview is in the show notes.
- [00:27:20.760]This ensures our guest narrative remains unaltered,
- [00:27:23.790]and our team's perspective
- [00:27:25.260]doesn't unintentionally influence it.
- [00:27:27.810]Before we completely end the episode
- [00:27:29.880]I wanna share this clip of a Nebraska youngster
- [00:27:33.150]explaining the job of a teacher.
- [00:27:36.180]What are the teachers like here?
- [00:27:37.740]Every teacher does something different.
- [00:27:40.890]They have different names and they do different jobs.
- [00:27:45.720]They take care of kids and work when we're napping.
- [00:27:50.880]It's always interesting to me to find out
- [00:27:53.130]how children perceive our roles.
- [00:27:54.840]And with that, this has been another episode
- [00:27:57.270]of "The Good Life in Early Life,"
- [00:27:59.490]a Nebraska Extension Early Childhood Production
- [00:28:02.010]with your host Emily Manning.
- [00:28:03.510]For more information on early childhood
- [00:28:05.340]check out our website at child.unl.edu.
- [00:28:08.520]If you like the show subscribe
- [00:28:09.900]and tell your friends to listen.
- [00:28:11.250]The show production team is Emily Manning,
- [00:28:13.260]Dr. Holly Hatton, Erin Kampbell, Ingrid Lindal,
- [00:28:16.350]Linda Reddish, Kim Wellsandt, LaDonna Werth,
- [00:28:19.080]and Katie Krause.
- [00:28:20.070]This episode has been reviewed by our team,
- [00:28:22.710]and most importantly, the guest.
- [00:28:24.690]See you next time, and thanks for listening.
- [00:28:27.150]Bye-Bye.
- [00:28:28.499](upbeat instrumental music)
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