S1E13: Part 1-Getting Comfortable with the Uncomfortable: Addressing Biases
Nebraska Extension Early Childhood Program Area-Emily Manning, Dr. Holly Hatton, Ingrid Lindal, Erin Kampbell, Linda Reddish, Katie Krause, and LaDonna Werth
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02/13/2024
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In this episode of the Good Life in Early Life, we welcome Mismiki Montogomery, an Early Childhood Education Coach with the University of Nebraska Ruth Staples Lab School. She lends her insights on the impact of race on daily experiences and the importance of discussing race and racism with young children. Mismiki talks about the need for self-reflection and bias among caregivers and educators to promote a more inclusive learning experience.
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- [00:00:00.327](upbeat music)
- [00:00:07.290]This is "The Good Life in Early Life,"
- [00:00:10.740]a production of Nebraska Extension.
- [00:00:12.780]I'm your host, Emily Manning,
- [00:00:14.370]an Early Childhood Extension Educator.
- [00:00:16.500]This episode is the beginning of a two-part episode series
- [00:00:19.830]where we'll be focusing on the importance
- [00:00:21.720]of discussing race and racism with children.
- [00:00:24.480]The views, thoughts, and opinions
- [00:00:26.280]expressed in this episode are the speaker's own
- [00:00:28.860]and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions
- [00:00:31.109]of the University of Nebraska or Nebraska Extension.
- [00:00:34.800]Our guest today has 30 years of experience
- [00:00:37.470]specializing in the field of early childhood development.
- [00:00:40.170]Ms. Miki has worked in education and administration,
- [00:00:43.110]including preschool, elementary education,
- [00:00:45.420]and various school age youth development programs.
- [00:00:47.880]She completed an early childhood development degree
- [00:00:50.190]at Southeast Community College, Lincoln,
- [00:00:52.260]and then received her Bachelor of Science
- [00:00:54.120]in Inclusive Early Childhood Education
- [00:00:55.879]from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
- [00:00:57.960]Ms. Miki is the first administrative
- [00:01:00.000]early childhood education coach
- [00:01:01.920]at the Ruth Staples Child Development Laboratory.
- [00:01:04.440]Her passion is to write
- [00:01:05.555]and create developmentally-appropriate curriculum
- [00:01:08.400]on topics such as diversity, equity, and inclusion,
- [00:01:11.520]as well as early nutrition intervention and mindfulness.
- [00:01:14.820]Her most recent work is a focus on anti-bias,
- [00:01:17.730]anti-racist early childhood classrooms.
- [00:01:20.160]Welcome to the show, Ms. Miki Montgomery.
- [00:01:23.130]Thank you.
- [00:01:23.963]We're so excited to have you on this podcast.
- [00:01:25.443]I am so excited to be here, especially for Extension,
- [00:01:29.100]so this is wonderful, yeah. Yes.
- [00:01:30.420]As I was telling Ms. Miki before we got started,
- [00:01:32.786]everyone talks so highly of her in Extension,
- [00:01:35.580]so I was like, I'm gonna meet her, yay!
- [00:01:38.065](both laughing)
- [00:01:39.094]Well, I love that. So this is a joy
- [00:01:40.470]to be meeting you in person.
- [00:01:41.940]Awesome, thank you.
- [00:01:42.810]You too though. You too though.
- [00:01:44.040]I'm glad you're with us. Oh thanks.
- [00:01:45.010]Yeah, yeah.
- [00:01:45.930]Well, let's get started
- [00:01:46.800]with the question I ask all my guests.
- [00:01:49.020]What is a funny memory of you from your childhood,
- [00:01:51.930]or just a favorite memory from your childhood?
- [00:01:54.060]Well, it's funny 'cause just today
- [00:01:56.070]I was talking with some of my preschoolers
- [00:01:58.124]about how me and my cousin once wore underwear on our heads
- [00:02:02.820]and pretended that they were helmets.
- [00:02:04.680](both laughing)
- [00:02:06.492]And that is literally
- [00:02:09.450]probably the funniest memory that I can think of.
- [00:02:11.850]But for me and my cousin, it wasn't any big thing.
- [00:02:13.920]I mean, we would wear 'em all day long
- [00:02:15.510]and figure out some sort of way to include that in our play.
- [00:02:18.540]And our family didn't really ask
- [00:02:19.890]very much questions about it,
- [00:02:20.970]which I'm not sure if that says a lot about me and my cousin
- [00:02:22.980]or my family, so.
- [00:02:23.910]It sounds like they were really open
- [00:02:25.890]and they were letting you be imaginative and creative,
- [00:02:28.590]and I love that. Right? Exactly.
- [00:02:30.030]That's awesome. Perfect.
- [00:02:31.080]No judgment from your family,
- [00:02:32.280]so I think that says a lot of good things
- [00:02:34.020]about your family. Absolutely.
- [00:02:35.032]That's true. Yes.
- [00:02:35.880]Okay.
- [00:02:36.713]So anytime is an appropriate time to discuss race,
- [00:02:40.170]but now maybe an especially pertinent time
- [00:02:42.900]since we just had our MLK Day celebration
- [00:02:45.750]and we are heading into Black History Month.
- [00:02:47.610]Black History Month,
- [00:02:48.510]for those of you who may not know about it,
- [00:02:50.310]is a time when we celebrate the rich diversity
- [00:02:52.710]and cultural history of African Americans,
- [00:02:54.509]as well as the challenges and triumphs of Black Americans
- [00:02:57.900]who have valuably and irrevocably impacted our nation.
- [00:03:01.710]So we're gonna discuss that a little bit today
- [00:03:03.510]with Ms. Miki.
- [00:03:04.437]And my first question for you is, in your own background,
- [00:03:07.680]your own preparation for this field and your career path,
- [00:03:10.890]how did you personally obtain knowledge
- [00:03:13.080]and take action around diversity, equity, and inclusion
- [00:03:17.340]and social justice?
- [00:03:19.364]Let me first tell you
- [00:03:20.460]about the dynamic makeup of my family.
- [00:03:23.430]So I am often seen as a Black woman,
- [00:03:27.840]and that is because I have an Afro,
- [00:03:29.940]I have very kinky hair, light brown skin,
- [00:03:32.160]and I have all the features of a Black woman.
- [00:03:35.100]I actually identify more with being a Black woman too,
- [00:03:37.590]because of my experiences.
- [00:03:39.000]However, my dad is Choctaw native and my mom is white Irish.
- [00:03:43.252]And I know, and you looking at me,
- [00:03:45.660]you wouldn't think that unless you knew my dad,
- [00:03:48.090]unless you knew my mom.
- [00:03:48.960]And then people are like, "Oh, yeah, I see the features."
- [00:03:51.330]But when I was growing up in small town Kansas,
- [00:03:54.660]small town Nebraska, even lived in England for a while,
- [00:03:57.240]I was the only brown skinned Afro child in the class.
- [00:04:01.020]And I mean, the only,
- [00:04:02.670]and it was obvious by not only the way that I looked,
- [00:04:07.200]but also because of what history books would say
- [00:04:10.072]and how the white children would talk to me
- [00:04:13.072]or call me names or exclude/include me either way.
- [00:04:17.130]You know, my skin color and my hair were who I was to them.
- [00:04:20.610]And so it became who it was to me.
- [00:04:22.260]And I'm not gonna lie, for a while it wasn't,
- [00:04:25.950]I don't wanna say confusing,
- [00:04:27.330]but I did not know how to identify myself
- [00:04:29.820]or what to identify myself as.
- [00:04:31.753]I didn't even realize identity was a thing to think about.
- [00:04:34.920]And I just, I didn't fit in
- [00:04:37.069]by the way that I looked in my family,
- [00:04:39.510]in my immediate family.
- [00:04:40.650]And so I know now that that was very difficult for me.
- [00:04:45.000]I didn't know at the time.
- [00:04:45.833]And so as I got older
- [00:04:47.383]and kind of learned more about the world,
- [00:04:50.460]that was outside of my own experiences,
- [00:04:52.860]I started to really think about who I was
- [00:04:56.700]and what was important to me
- [00:04:59.040]as far as how I identified myself.
- [00:05:01.590]I'm 50 years old,
- [00:05:02.580]and it really wasn't until maybe the last six
- [00:05:04.860]or seven years maybe,
- [00:05:06.690]that I finally was able to say I identify as a Black woman.
- [00:05:12.270]I always wonder if that would upset my native family
- [00:05:14.564]'cause it's not that I don't love
- [00:05:16.800]or care about my native culture.
- [00:05:18.360]It has nothing to do with that.
- [00:05:19.770]I'm very proud to be native.
- [00:05:21.480]I just haven't been treated as a native woman growing up.
- [00:05:24.300]I haven't been treated as a native woman, as an adult.
- [00:05:26.580]I don't know what that feels like.
- [00:05:28.312]I don't know what that looks like.
- [00:05:30.390]Everybody who has looked at me
- [00:05:31.800]has never identified me as white,
- [00:05:33.660]and they've never identified me as native.
- [00:05:35.640]I've always been identified as a Black woman.
- [00:05:37.650]And so I feel like I've had the pain
- [00:05:39.712]from the experiences of what Black females,
- [00:05:43.470]Black women, Black girls,
- [00:05:44.970]young Black girls have had growing up
- [00:05:46.950]in a society where racism is alive.
- [00:05:49.020]And so, confusion isn't the right word
- [00:05:52.020]for what I felt as a child or as an adolescent
- [00:05:56.187]or as a teen.
- [00:05:57.780]I just felt like I did not belong anywhere.
- [00:06:00.767](groans) How excruciating for a teenager anyway,
- [00:06:03.570]when you feel so self-conscious.
- [00:06:05.077]Because you're already going through just puberty
- [00:06:09.114]and crushes and getting through high school
- [00:06:14.190]and you already have this identity issue
- [00:06:16.410]with yourself anyway as a teenager,
- [00:06:18.000]let alone being a teenager, a girl teenager of color.
- [00:06:22.680]And I do want to, I do wanna say and stress the fact
- [00:06:25.380]that I'm a female of color,
- [00:06:27.030]because it is very different than being a male of color.
- [00:06:29.640]Yes related, but very different,
- [00:06:31.514]and wanting to be able to date the guys in school
- [00:06:36.060]that are white guys,
- [00:06:37.140]that they literally won't date you
- [00:06:39.570]because their families have threatened them
- [00:06:41.040]that if you date that Black girl,
- [00:06:42.510]then we're cutting you off.
- [00:06:44.130]I mean, I had that- Oh my gosh.
- [00:06:46.794]I had a prom date tell me (laughs),
- [00:06:50.160]I had a prom date tell me
- [00:06:51.210]and he was actually the guy I was dating at the time,
- [00:06:52.950]apparently his parents didn't know about it.
- [00:06:54.600]But I had a prom date tell me two weeks before prom
- [00:06:57.000]that he couldn't go
- [00:06:58.560]because his parents found out
- [00:07:00.000]that he was going to prom with a Black girl
- [00:07:01.770]and so he couldn't go.
- [00:07:03.990]And his parents told him to stop talking to me.
- [00:07:06.180]And he did cold turkey.
- [00:07:07.110]And I was devastated.
- [00:07:08.130]I was absolutely devastated.
- [00:07:09.510]Oh my gosh!
- [00:07:11.532]But that was my reality. Wow.
- [00:07:13.620]That was my reality back then.
- [00:07:14.521]When was that? When was that?
- [00:07:16.040]This would've been, oh gosh,
- [00:07:16.980]I graduated high school in 1991.
- [00:07:18.840]So like 1989, 1990.
- [00:07:21.900]I was living in a small town- Fairly recent.
- [00:07:23.423]Kansas, Independence, Kansas.
- [00:07:24.620]Yeah, yeah, not too long ago.
- [00:07:26.818]And to me, I never really thought
- [00:07:30.420]about the word embarrassment for who I was.
- [00:07:34.440]But when I heard people talk about how even their parents
- [00:07:40.110]who were native made them feel embarrassed to be native,
- [00:07:43.080]I remember thinking,
- [00:07:45.030]have I been embarrassed to be a person of color?
- [00:07:47.040]And why?
- [00:07:47.880]Yeah, why is that?
- [00:07:48.957]Why have I been, if I have felt that,
- [00:07:50.910]'cause I could relate to that feeling, why?
- [00:07:53.070]Why would they feel embarrassed to be native?
- [00:07:55.920]And why would their parents make them feel embarrassed?
- [00:07:58.470]Why do they feel that they could,
- [00:07:59.760]they needed to make their child
- [00:08:01.350]feel embarrassed to be native?
- [00:08:02.520]Well, it goes all the way back to colonization.
- [00:08:05.280]And it goes all the way back to the construct of race,
- [00:08:07.776]which is why we're here today.
- [00:08:09.330]Because race was a social construct.
- [00:08:12.000]It was created.
- [00:08:12.990]Race isn't a thing.
- [00:08:14.070]And I don't know if you've heard that, but-
- [00:08:15.720]Oh yeah.
- [00:08:16.553]I have, I have.
- [00:08:18.160]And again, and I need you to know that
- [00:08:20.880]a lot of this stuff I've had to learn on my own
- [00:08:23.580]because it is something that directly affects me,
- [00:08:26.430]my children, my family.
- [00:08:27.750]But also it's something that directly affects today,
- [00:08:30.330]has always directly affected today.
- [00:08:32.370]And everybody in the world has been lied to
- [00:08:35.940]about why race needs to be a thing,
- [00:08:40.110]which has led to segregation, assimilation, racism,
- [00:08:44.633]all of those things, prejudice,
- [00:08:46.667]all of those things have led to where we are right now,
- [00:08:50.910]which is hate basically towards one another
- [00:08:53.700]for being different, right?
- [00:08:55.200]And so, I guess I can say that that's where it started.
- [00:08:59.280]I just can't stop thinking
- [00:09:00.447]about your story about prom,
- [00:09:02.130]to me now it's just so surprising that someone
- [00:09:04.230]is that blatantly like racist,
- [00:09:05.940]but I'm sure people still are.
- [00:09:07.576]It's just like, I can't fathom being that way.
- [00:09:09.744]Oh, very much my five-year-old
- [00:09:11.700]was told he couldn't come to a birthday party
- [00:09:13.590]because this kid's mom said,
- [00:09:15.697]"My mom told me I can't invite anybody with brown skin."
- [00:09:19.140]And my five-year-old came home from kindergarten
- [00:09:20.880]and would say, "Mom, I've known him since preschool
- [00:09:23.190]and he's my best friend.
- [00:09:24.120]But he said that if he invites me to his birthday party,
- [00:09:27.240]his mom will throw up."
- [00:09:28.440]This mom's kid, or this kid's mom said that.
- [00:09:31.272]And this kid truly believed his mom
- [00:09:33.659]and said, "I don't want my mom to be sick,
- [00:09:36.090]so you can't come."
- [00:09:37.186]Everybody else in his class was invited except him.
- [00:09:39.960]And he had been friends with his boy for two years.
- [00:09:42.150]And here he is, he's five years old.
- [00:09:44.730]And now, mind you, I have four boys
- [00:09:46.710]and I've been through this
- [00:09:47.729]with every single one of my children.
- [00:09:50.010]And usually something that this started
- [00:09:52.170]around like third grade, fourth grade,
- [00:09:54.146]became very prevalent in fifth and sixth grade again
- [00:09:57.210]'cause they're also growing up in Midwest America.
- [00:10:00.030]Things like, you know, "Hey mom,
- [00:10:01.693]today we talked about the civil rights movement.
- [00:10:04.260]And one of my 'friends,'" and I do the quotes
- [00:10:06.510]because they thought that these kids were their friends.
- [00:10:09.390]Which, you know, "One of my friends turned to me
- [00:10:12.120]behind his book and said,
- [00:10:13.180]'Hey, you can't drink out of our water fountain,
- [00:10:15.037]so go use something else.'
- [00:10:17.070]And then laughed about it
- [00:10:18.236]because they thought it was funny."
- [00:10:19.800]No, oh!
- [00:10:20.790]But then they went out to the playground
- [00:10:22.080]and played basketball and climbed the structure together.
- [00:10:26.850]And they'd something that,
- [00:10:28.890]because there's not any or enough awareness and education
- [00:10:35.250]about the truths of how race entered into play
- [00:10:39.840]and how race and racism are still very much so an issue
- [00:10:45.041]in today's society,
- [00:10:47.250]it just shows that when you don't talk about it,
- [00:10:49.590]and you only have what has been written in the history books
- [00:10:53.610]to sugarcoat the reality of the absolute disgusting truth,
- [00:11:00.030]I mean, I have to be honest.
- [00:11:01.066]The absolute disgusting truth
- [00:11:02.868]because we're trying to protect
- [00:11:05.220]how some of the colonizer leaders were made to look
- [00:11:10.050]as if what they were doing were good things.
- [00:11:12.450]You know, until we say no, this is not true.
- [00:11:17.040]No, it's not okay for you to think this way about me
- [00:11:20.910]because whatever is in the books, whatever is in the news,
- [00:11:25.110]whatever is in any media, whatever is in a podcast,
- [00:11:28.140]whatever is in whatever is written
- [00:11:30.240]and said, "This is golden.
- [00:11:32.670]This is real, this is truth" is going to be believed.
- [00:11:35.348]I know you asked me,
- [00:11:36.470]"How do you talk to young kids about race?"
- [00:11:38.280]Well, really to me
- [00:11:39.870]it's how do you talk to young kids about racism.
- [00:11:41.850]You can talk to young kids about race.
- [00:11:43.470]There's a sensitive way to go about doing it.
- [00:11:45.600]And I'm comfortable doing it because of my experience,
- [00:11:48.030]you know, growing in the skin I'm in,
- [00:11:49.097]'cause of my experiences
- [00:11:51.167]with what my boys have been through.
- [00:11:52.830]And because of my experiences
- [00:11:54.390]of having a white mother, a native dad,
- [00:11:56.610]but identifying as a Black woman,
- [00:11:58.182]I really don't take sides.
- [00:12:00.480]I just want people to see color.
- [00:12:03.569]You know, don't say I don't see color.
- [00:12:06.210]No, you do see color. Everybody does.
- [00:12:08.979]See color.
- [00:12:09.930]You see those different colors in the coloring box.
- [00:12:12.029]So when you say,
- [00:12:13.200]how do you talk to young children about race,
- [00:12:14.880]really it's how do you talk to young children about racism?
- [00:12:17.562]'Cause everybody still calls that the R word.
- [00:12:20.250]Racism is hate.
- [00:12:21.720]There's no other way to put it.
- [00:12:23.400]So who wants to feel ugly?
- [00:12:27.840]Who wants to feel evil?
- [00:12:29.460]Who wants to have any type of nasty feeling about them?
- [00:12:33.210]Of themselves.
- [00:12:34.058]But you also need to go back,
- [00:12:36.090]and this is where anti-bias comes in.
- [00:12:37.920]Recently, I wrote a training within the last year
- [00:12:41.340]that I put on for Southeast Community College
- [00:12:43.899]Child Development Lab.
- [00:12:45.330]I am currently doing a course
- [00:12:47.760]or a class for the Lincoln Littles Foundation Courses
- [00:12:51.210]that they're doing,
- [00:12:52.043]which they're doing an amazing job.
- [00:12:53.070]Shout out to Amika, hey girl.
- [00:12:55.049]And the training is about visiting your own personal bias.
- [00:13:00.420]We study what bias is and what bias means
- [00:13:03.300]'cause nobody's immune from bias.
- [00:13:05.100]Yeah. Absolutely.
- [00:13:06.060]Okay, let's talk about that.
- [00:13:06.893]For listeners who don't know, what is bias?
- [00:13:08.700]So when you look bias up, when you Google bias,
- [00:13:11.490]it says prejudice in favor of or against one thing,
- [00:13:14.820]one person or group compared with another,
- [00:13:17.940]usually in a way considered to be unfair.
- [00:13:21.300]An example they give,
- [00:13:22.230]there was evidence of bias against foreign applicants.
- [00:13:24.780]I am biased against how gorgeous I think my sons are.
- [00:13:28.126]Right?
- [00:13:29.310]I'm mom, right? Yeah, yeah.
- [00:13:30.207]So of course I'm biased about that.
- [00:13:32.687]That is something that I'm prejudiced about.
- [00:13:35.730]I am in favor of,
- [00:13:36.720]and it may be unfair because maybe somebody else thinks
- [00:13:39.450]that they're not gorgeous
- [00:13:40.407]and maybe there's four other sons
- [00:13:42.840]that are more gorgeous than mine.
- [00:13:43.740]I don't know, we all have biases.
- [00:13:45.930]What does it mean to have a personal bias?
- [00:13:48.570]Well, in my training,
- [00:13:49.620]what I do is we go back to our childhoods.
- [00:13:52.347]We go back to our environment that we grew up in.
- [00:13:56.010]We go back to the adults
- [00:13:58.124]that were the significant, impactful adults in our lives.
- [00:14:02.010]We go back to what we were told growing up,
- [00:14:04.980]what we saw and heard and lived growing up.
- [00:14:10.049]With that in mind,
- [00:14:12.270]our personal biases stem from our upbringing.
- [00:14:15.960]And here's where early childhood comes in,
- [00:14:17.730]because the first five years of education,
- [00:14:20.130]the first five years of experience,
- [00:14:21.536]the first five years of growth from birth to age five,
- [00:14:25.350]your brain develops the quickest besides in the womb.
- [00:14:28.080]So during that time of development, it is crucial.
- [00:14:32.160]Everybody in early childhood development knows this.
- [00:14:34.140]It is crucial the experiences that that child has.
- [00:14:37.020]If you have a negative experience with a person, an animal,
- [00:14:41.653]if you touch a stove and burn your hand
- [00:14:44.640]during that first five years,
- [00:14:45.780]you're always gonna remember that somehow, some way,
- [00:14:47.790]whether it's at the frontal of your brain,
- [00:14:50.855]there's gonna be something that has impacted you
- [00:14:53.130]to remember a negative experiences.
- [00:14:54.990]You're also gonna remember positive experiences.
- [00:14:57.120]But unfortunately, we remember negative experiences
- [00:14:59.640]way more than we remember positive experiences.
- [00:15:02.790]Okay?
- [00:15:03.623]And so let's go to the adults in our environment
- [00:15:06.240]growing up during those years.
- [00:15:07.920]If you have a family who generation after generation
- [00:15:11.700]after generation has made excuses for why racism is okay,
- [00:15:16.920]so then you've got this family generation
- [00:15:18.780]after generation after generation
- [00:15:20.190]that is excusing the behavior of the white elite,
- [00:15:22.920]which then they melt into as just white
- [00:15:25.999]'cause we're white,
- [00:15:27.060]so of course we're going to excuse this behavior
- [00:15:29.370]because the history book
- [00:15:30.203]says that these rich royal presidents
- [00:15:33.330]or queens, kings, princes, they did this.
- [00:15:36.480]And it was of God, you know,
- [00:15:38.340]God approved that they did this.
- [00:15:40.260]So of course we're gonna believe the history books
- [00:15:42.300]because nobody wants to write
- [00:15:43.716]about how you yourself was a terrible person.
- [00:15:47.520]You did these terrible things just to benefit yourself.
- [00:15:49.500]Who's gonna write something like that
- [00:15:51.480]into the history books?
- [00:15:52.560]Yeah. (laughs)
- [00:15:53.490]But yeah, so then here we are generation after generation
- [00:15:55.654]where parents are gonna tell their children this.
- [00:15:58.440]And those children grow up to be parents,
- [00:15:59.778]and they're gonna tell their children this
- [00:16:00.746]and so on and so forth.
- [00:16:02.220]It's same for people of color
- [00:16:04.440]who are still hurt by histories past
- [00:16:08.370]and whose grandparents, great grandparents,
- [00:16:10.680]great great grandparents, so on and so forth,
- [00:16:12.180]just can't get over the fact
- [00:16:13.650]of how terribly people were treated in their family.
- [00:16:16.921]Is that called generational trauma?
- [00:16:19.230]I would call it generational trauma.
- [00:16:20.640]Generational curses simply,
- [00:16:21.990]I don't like the word curse, but generational trauma.
- [00:16:23.940]Because you know, it's hard to let go of trauma
- [00:16:27.480]if you haven't noticed,
- [00:16:28.470]and so when you go through the type of trauma
- [00:16:30.120]that was really unfair,
- [00:16:32.490]you go through the type of,
- [00:16:33.630]any type of trauma that's really unfair,
- [00:16:35.940]and you just feel that your life would be different
- [00:16:38.640]if you were able to have equal or equitable opportunity
- [00:16:41.940]to achieve and be successful as another person,
- [00:16:44.850]but because of your skin color, you can't.
- [00:16:47.220]You know what I mean?
- [00:16:48.053]Hold on a second.
- [00:16:48.886]I might be as good at you at this job,
- [00:16:51.420]if not, better. If not, better.
- [00:16:52.950]Yeah.
- [00:16:53.783]But when you see my name on the resume,
- [00:16:55.675]you're gonna skip that one over
- [00:16:57.480]and you're gonna go over to Sarah or John,
- [00:16:59.880]'cause this name looks ethnic.
- [00:17:01.828]And immediately because of the last six, 700 years
- [00:17:07.950]social construct, you're gonna form an opinion about me
- [00:17:10.683]and you're gonna have a prejudice about me.
- [00:17:13.560]I could have a CV that's 20 pages long,
- [00:17:16.680]but you know, as soon as you see my name,
- [00:17:18.930]or for whatever reason, if you found out my ethnicity,
- [00:17:21.180]you're gonna have second thoughts,
- [00:17:23.250]even though I could kill it at this job.
- [00:17:25.979]And those are facts that are still facts today.
- [00:17:28.147]So anti-bias means being aware
- [00:17:31.781]of how your generation and your family,
- [00:17:34.803]how their beliefs have shaped who you are
- [00:17:37.980]and what you believe today, okay?
- [00:17:40.193]Those beliefs feed into your bias.
- [00:17:43.980]You might not even be aware of all the biases that you have.
- [00:17:47.100]We all are not, that's why they call it unconscious bias.
- [00:17:50.580]And until you have a training or you read a book,
- [00:17:53.550]or you have somebody talk to you and say,
- [00:17:56.347]"Hey, are you biased about this?
- [00:17:58.470]Tell me more about your childhood.
- [00:17:59.670]Tell me about what do your parents believe?
- [00:18:01.650]What kind of environment did you grow up in?
- [00:18:03.900]You were really fighting for this
- [00:18:06.900]as far as what you think is just and justified
- [00:18:09.270]in your family, in your household, in your mind.
- [00:18:11.100]Tell me why."
- [00:18:11.933]And that's something that I think all of us
- [00:18:14.550]need to do more work on.
- [00:18:16.500]Because then we're all gonna see
- [00:18:18.300]that there's no point in pointing fingers
- [00:18:20.041]because there was no getting away
- [00:18:22.590]from your first five years of growth,
- [00:18:25.830]which then turned into 10 years
- [00:18:28.080]where you grow into this concrete operational thinking.
- [00:18:30.930]And then by age 12 your bias has fully grown.
- [00:18:34.816]And then you start making choices and decisions
- [00:18:38.030]and following the construct
- [00:18:40.560]that your parents and your grandparents
- [00:18:42.150]and your great-grandparents have taught you
- [00:18:43.356]'cause who wants to believe that any of their parents
- [00:18:45.750]are teaching them things that are wrong,
- [00:18:47.730]or things that aren't good, or things that are bad?
- [00:18:50.850]Or who's gonna believe that their parents are bad people?
- [00:18:53.610]Unless they find out for themselves for other reason.
- [00:18:56.326]So of course they're gonna defend what they've learned.
- [00:18:59.244]Of course they're gonna defend what they've grown up
- [00:19:01.400]as the areas and environments
- [00:19:03.990]and lifestyles they've grown up in.
- [00:19:05.490]Why wouldn't you?
- [00:19:06.323]Otherwise, that means
- [00:19:07.170]that there's also something wrong with you.
- [00:19:09.120]Who wants to feel that way?
- [00:19:10.620]Not very many people, I don't think.
- [00:19:11.741]No, it is not a comfortable feeling.
- [00:19:13.740]And we are all not good at identifying-
- [00:19:16.387]And sitting with uncomfortable feelings.
- [00:19:18.630]Sitting with uncomfortable feelings.
- [00:19:19.984]We find unhealthy ways to either feed it or justify it.
- [00:19:24.060]And justification is why we are where we are right now.
- [00:19:26.700]And people continue to justify it
- [00:19:28.170]instead of taking accountability or say,
- [00:19:29.527]"You know what? Maybe I'm wrong.
- [00:19:30.840]Maybe my mom was wrong and my dad was wrong.
- [00:19:32.820]Maybe my grandpa was wrong."
- [00:19:34.350]Some people can do that
- [00:19:35.550]because some people would rather, "Nope.
- [00:19:37.260]You know, I'm not trying to learn anything different.
- [00:19:39.630]You know, I'm not trying to become aware
- [00:19:41.970]of whatever your truth was back then."
- [00:19:44.247]And it's not just one-sided, it's everybody.
- [00:19:46.840]Everybody of every culture, of every ethnicity,
- [00:19:50.055]we don't know what it's like
- [00:19:53.250]to be in another person's shoes,
- [00:19:54.510]as much as we try to say, we want to try, we just don't.
- [00:19:58.377]And so everyone has bias.
- [00:20:00.180]Everybody. Everybody has a bias.
- [00:20:01.650]Absolutely. And it just depends,
- [00:20:02.970]like you said on your upbringing
- [00:20:04.530]and your environment. Absolutely.
- [00:20:05.457]And what you were surrounded with
- [00:20:06.960]when you were going through that time period.
- [00:20:09.330]So everyone has a bias.
- [00:20:10.680]And it's gonna be different on something, yeah.
- [00:20:13.063]Now, how does bias lead to racism?
- [00:20:15.294]That's another question.
- [00:20:17.490]That's an uncomfortable question to ask and to visit,
- [00:20:20.191]because then you have to go back
- [00:20:23.321]to what we just talked about,
- [00:20:25.440]your childhood and on, your adolescence,
- [00:20:28.170]your teenage years, and now your adult life.
- [00:20:30.270]And you have to see if any of those impactful moments
- [00:20:34.052]or lessons or experiences in your life are racist.
- [00:20:38.194]Wait, wait a minute.
- [00:20:40.050]So I know what race is now, I know what racism is now,
- [00:20:45.930]let me go back and let me look.
- [00:20:47.430]Oh my gosh, that's a racist view.
- [00:20:49.516]Oh my gosh, wait a minute,
- [00:20:50.880]that's a racist view too.
- [00:20:52.454]Oh my gosh, when I look at that,
- [00:20:54.570]that is not accepting of differences.
- [00:20:57.016]Oh my gosh, when I look at that, that's me saying
- [00:21:00.930]that these people over here need to assimilate
- [00:21:03.870]and be like me to accept them.
- [00:21:06.090]Wait a minute.
- [00:21:06.923]Do I need to visit this more?
- [00:21:09.150]Or do I just need to ignore it and go on with what I know
- [00:21:11.550]because I'm more comfortable with doing that
- [00:21:13.110]instead of facing conflict.
- [00:21:14.700]Instead of really fussing up
- [00:21:16.518]and really doing that inner work
- [00:21:18.489]and then teaching my children not to do the same.
- [00:21:21.690]Breaking the cycle right there
- [00:21:23.299]and teaching my children not to do the same.
- [00:21:25.770]You gotta get uncomfortable.
- [00:21:26.850]You gotta get comfortable with the uncomfortable
- [00:21:28.500]before you can do that and before you can talk to children.
- [00:21:30.840]And also just knowing like that, by exploring that,
- [00:21:34.530]by exploring that uncomfortable thing,
- [00:21:36.420]like you're getting closer to the person you want to be
- [00:21:39.023]rather than just like ignoring it
- [00:21:41.040]and pretending everything's good.
- [00:21:43.560]So let's talk about bias in education
- [00:21:46.256]and why it's so critical for educators
- [00:21:49.950]who work with children to understand bias
- [00:21:52.504]and have an understanding of their own biases.
- [00:21:55.410]One of the many things I love
- [00:21:56.490]about working at Ruth Staples
- [00:21:57.780]is being able to work with pre-service teachers.
- [00:22:00.810]And a lot of our pre-service teachers here
- [00:22:02.880]are from the state of Nebraska, the Midwest community,
- [00:22:06.420]and have not been in an environment
- [00:22:10.740]where there are a lot of people of color
- [00:22:13.399]to be a part of their experience growing up.
- [00:22:16.739]I say that from experience
- [00:22:19.440]because when I was going to school
- [00:22:22.860]to become an early childhood development educator,
- [00:22:25.980]I remember being in groups where
- [00:22:28.170]I was a nontraditional student.
- [00:22:29.310]So I was in my 30s and I remember being in groups
- [00:22:32.310]where I would have young students sit in a group with me
- [00:22:35.820]and just almost not know how to talk to me
- [00:22:38.610]and say, "This is the first time
- [00:22:40.170]I've ever seen colored people.
- [00:22:41.123]There's no colored people in my town."
- [00:22:43.796]It's inappropriate to say colored,
- [00:22:45.420]you didn't even know what I was talking about.
- [00:22:47.040]Because why would that, why would you be,
- [00:22:48.630]why would be inappropriate to say colored?
- [00:22:50.100]It's a term that's just not used anymore.
- [00:22:51.690]And it's just, it's offensive.
- [00:22:53.040]And I remember one of the girls who said that,
- [00:22:54.930]and I said, "Hey," I said,
- [00:22:56.257]"Now that you're in Lincoln, don't use that term
- [00:22:58.440]'cause you will come across some people of color,
- [00:23:00.270]some Black people who will get very upset with you
- [00:23:02.610]for using that term."
- [00:23:03.480]"I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I didn't,"
- [00:23:06.216]and I said, "I know you didn't, I know you didn't."
- [00:23:08.253]"You know, we use that term in my town all the time.
- [00:23:11.580]I didn't know it was a bad term."
- [00:23:12.750]Why would you?
- [00:23:13.583]You know, if it's used by the people in your town
- [00:23:15.780]and your family all the time.
- [00:23:16.905]And then from that point on, it's up to her
- [00:23:19.688]because she's aware now that that term's not okay to use.
- [00:23:23.010]It's not a preferred term.
- [00:23:23.926]So then it's up to her to go forward
- [00:23:26.160]to not to use that term anymore.
- [00:23:27.540]When you know better, you do better.
- [00:23:30.390]It's same with bias
- [00:23:31.800]when it comes to you knowing better, to do better.
- [00:23:35.250]I don't know any teacher that goes into the field saying,
- [00:23:37.807]"I am not gonna accept any of my children
- [00:23:40.470]for their differences.
- [00:23:41.490]I am gonna go into this classroom
- [00:23:44.460]and I am not gonna be equal with my education.
- [00:23:47.576]I'm not gonna make sure that everybody gets a fair education
- [00:23:51.600]and gets to learn the same thing."
- [00:23:53.370]I don't know any teacher that says that,
- [00:23:54.870]every teacher that goes into their field
- [00:23:56.760]really, truly, genuinely say, "I want to teach children."
- [00:23:59.910]And they have this view of this classroom
- [00:24:03.060]and they just assume, of course they're gonna be fair,
- [00:24:06.397]you know, they know how to be fair.
- [00:24:08.070]They were taught to be fair growing up.
- [00:24:09.420]They know how to be fair.
- [00:24:10.253]So, of course, I'm wanna be fair when it comes
- [00:24:12.540]to how I teach my kids.
- [00:24:14.100]But the fact is, because of our biases
- [00:24:16.650]and a lot of time our unconscious bias,
- [00:24:18.660]this is why the percentage of Black children
- [00:24:20.255]who get suspended from schools,
- [00:24:22.440]expelled from schools, kicked out of classrooms,
- [00:24:25.260]sent to the principal's office,
- [00:24:26.640]are way higher than white children
- [00:24:29.310]who show the same behaviors.
- [00:24:31.087]So you can do the same exact thing
- [00:24:34.170]and a teacher will give a white child a chance to do better
- [00:24:37.650]or not send them outta the classroom,
- [00:24:39.270]or not make as much of a fuss
- [00:24:41.460]and maybe give them more chances to do better
- [00:24:43.890]and succeed in the classroom,
- [00:24:45.090]or that Black boy or that Black girl
- [00:24:46.677]is not gonna get that same chance.
- [00:24:48.330]And these, I'm not making this up,
- [00:24:49.920]these are statistics, these are facts.
- [00:24:52.230]There's so much research on this.
- [00:24:53.430]There's a lot of research on this to support you.
- [00:24:55.874]One of the papers that you could read
- [00:24:58.710]is "Girlhood Interrupted."
- [00:25:00.337]"Girlhood Interrupted" is about young Black females
- [00:25:04.032]in the education system
- [00:25:06.120]and how they are more at risk for expulsion
- [00:25:09.780]and not graduating high school more than Black boys.
- [00:25:12.646]Anyway, and so anti-bias work is super important
- [00:25:17.460]because until you can visit your personal biases
- [00:25:21.600]and kind of group yourself together
- [00:25:24.240]and get uncomfortable with the possibility
- [00:25:27.450]that you have this outlook and this prejudice
- [00:25:30.450]and this view of children or people
- [00:25:34.470]or others who are different than you,
- [00:25:36.330]and that don't fit into your norm
- [00:25:38.640]and make you feel comfortable when you're around them,
- [00:25:40.830]or make you feel comfortable
- [00:25:42.300]because they don't listen to the same music as you,
- [00:25:44.070]they didn't grow up the same,
- [00:25:45.360]they don't wear the same clothes as you,
- [00:25:46.560]until you can visit that personal bias and say,
- [00:25:49.567]"Ugh, maybe I've been doing this wrong,
- [00:25:51.720]maybe I've been looking at people in a way
- [00:25:53.970]that I shouldn't look at them
- [00:25:55.290]and I need to do the work that it takes to fix that."
- [00:25:59.610]You can't honestly say that you have an anti-bias classroom.
- [00:26:05.370]You can't honestly say
- [00:26:06.810]that you've created an anti-bias environment.
- [00:26:08.792]And again, I'm not just talking about people of privilege.
- [00:26:11.790]I'm not just talking about white people.
- [00:26:13.410]I'm talking about what if we had,
- [00:26:15.053]let's say we're in Chicago or Atlanta
- [00:26:16.920]and we've got a Black teacher
- [00:26:18.120]and you've got a classroom of Black children,
- [00:26:20.460]and then you've got a white child.
- [00:26:21.605]What's gonna be the difference for that child?
- [00:26:24.445]What type of experiences has that Black teacher had
- [00:26:27.930]with the white community
- [00:26:29.568]that this teacher might be anti or biased
- [00:26:32.250]towards the white child in that classroom.
- [00:26:34.169]If there's a certain behavior
- [00:26:35.495]that this white child is doing.
- [00:26:37.276]I don't wanna say it's a difficult question to answer.
- [00:26:39.450]I just wanna say it's a deep question to answer.
- [00:26:41.970]It's a deep answer to the question
- [00:26:43.447]because there's not just bringing the awareness
- [00:26:46.890]about yourself to see if you are biased as an educator.
- [00:26:51.060]You are, we all have educator bias.
- [00:26:53.190]It's what you do to learn more about yourself
- [00:26:55.620]and not allow that bias to sneak into the way
- [00:26:58.620]that you educate a full class
- [00:27:00.360]so that it is equitable learning.
- [00:27:02.100]So that it is equitable experiences.
- [00:27:04.170]And so that every child does have a chance,
- [00:27:06.990]just like the next child to learn and succeed
- [00:27:10.290]and move on without just being pushed on or pushed out.
- [00:27:13.230]Yeah, wow, that's powerful.
- [00:27:14.580]Does that make sense? Yes, I'm just soaking it in.
- [00:27:16.530]Sorry.
- [00:27:17.370]No, and I get that,
- [00:27:19.030]but I also want, I'm trying to,
- [00:27:21.150]I'm trying to explain it in a way
- [00:27:22.410]that people can understand.
- [00:27:24.330]Again, nothing's wrong with us, nothing's wrong with you,
- [00:27:27.300]nothing's wrong with me.
- [00:27:28.530]It just means that we've all had
- [00:27:31.920]so many different experiences
- [00:27:33.570]that make us clash without us even knowing
- [00:27:35.138]we're clashing and not trying to clash.
- [00:27:37.350]We're not trying to clash purposely.
- [00:27:38.932]It's important work
- [00:27:40.590]because you shape the minds of children for our future,
- [00:27:43.050]and all children should have the same opportunity
- [00:27:44.961]to be able to succeed.
- [00:27:47.078]You've talked a little bit
- [00:27:48.480]about teaching about race early on
- [00:27:51.225]and why we need to talk about race and racism.
- [00:27:54.690]I was gonna mention that research
- [00:27:56.340]finds that children begin to distinguish faces by race
- [00:27:59.549]really early on in infancy.
- [00:28:02.160]I've seen that.
- [00:28:02.993]And that racial biases are often formed
- [00:28:04.650]by preschool and kindergarten years.
- [00:28:06.315]So I think that just highlights
- [00:28:07.980]how important early childhood is,
- [00:28:10.268]for discussing racism, discussing anti-bias,
- [00:28:13.890]discussing all of these things.
- [00:28:15.810]So for the educators out there who are listening right now,
- [00:28:19.337]what advice would you have for them
- [00:28:21.840]on how to have these conversations?
- [00:28:24.030]Like when do you put it into your day?
- [00:28:25.993]How do you start that?
- [00:28:27.660]I've been asked this question before so many times.
- [00:28:30.510]How do you do it?
- [00:28:31.343]How do you talk about race with preschoolers?
- [00:28:35.160]How do you talk about race with toddlers?
- [00:28:37.735]How do you introduce that?
- [00:28:39.840]And here at Ruth Staples at the Lab School,
- [00:28:42.180]our curriculum is place-based.
- [00:28:44.160]Our curriculum is interest-based.
- [00:28:45.570]So we do not have thematic curriculum.
- [00:28:47.850]We do not write curriculum by a theme.
- [00:28:50.656]We don't make the curriculum
- [00:28:52.830]and then teach it to the child.
- [00:28:53.970]We observe the child, we observe the way they learn.
- [00:28:56.790]We observe their interests, we write them down.
- [00:28:58.980]We include the child on our investigation,
- [00:29:03.210]on what it is they want more to know,
- [00:29:05.130]with toddlers is a little different than preschoolers,
- [00:29:07.110]but there's a way to do that.
- [00:29:09.030]And then we write the curriculum based on those interests,
- [00:29:11.850]because that's how children learn.
- [00:29:13.890]You can't stick a camel in front of 'em
- [00:29:15.450]and say, state, you know, you're interested in this.
- [00:29:17.190]Let me tell you about the humps
- [00:29:18.300]and the hooves and the, right,
- [00:29:19.491]there's no camels in Nebraska.
- [00:29:20.878]They've had no connection with camels.
- [00:29:22.830]They've had no experience with camels.
- [00:29:24.450]Who cares?
- [00:29:25.283]They don't care.
- [00:29:26.116]You could make it fun and make it interesting,
- [00:29:27.840]but to make it meaningful and intentional,
- [00:29:30.210]you have to go on children's interests,
- [00:29:33.130]something that they've experienced,
- [00:29:35.700]and then is the teachable moment.
- [00:29:38.801]So basically because of that,
- [00:29:41.078]and because we don't have a curriculum book
- [00:29:44.370]in front of us that says,
- [00:29:45.671]teach this, teach this, teach this.
- [00:29:47.730]Or you guys are learning about camels this week
- [00:29:49.530]and blah, blah, blah.
- [00:29:50.363]We wait till interests arise
- [00:29:52.020]and then we teach around that.
- [00:29:53.190]Sometimes, like when we want to bring in some knowledge
- [00:29:57.703]about topics that they probably have no idea about,
- [00:30:00.870]like, okay, what preschooler's gonna say,
- [00:30:02.947]"Hey, can we learn about Black History Month this week?"
- [00:30:04.860]I mean, there might be,
- [00:30:05.713]but they might not even know it's Black History Month.
- [00:30:08.542]Then we as lead teachers will be like,
- [00:30:10.537]"Hey, did you guys know that this is the month
- [00:30:12.870]that we celebrate Black history?"
- [00:30:14.370]And we, you know, what is Black history?
- [00:30:16.320]Well, let me tell ya.
- [00:30:17.220]You know, and I will pose questions
- [00:30:19.588]and read books in a certain type of way
- [00:30:22.650]just to bring awareness around Blackness, okay.
- [00:30:26.490]And so, because I'm comfortable with the uncomfortable topic
- [00:30:30.360]of talking about things like this,
- [00:30:32.370]and because I love teaching early childhood
- [00:30:35.340]and I know how the young brain works,
- [00:30:37.320]and I know how to slowly introduce a topic
- [00:30:41.790]and let it grow with the children,
- [00:30:44.640]I start small and what do I start with?
- [00:30:47.640]I start with color.
- [00:30:48.780]Yeah. Okay.
- [00:30:50.010]This totally kills the colorblind argument
- [00:30:51.930]that I don't see color.
- [00:30:53.520]You know, I'm colorblind, I don't see color.
- [00:30:55.380]We talked about it at the very beginning,
- [00:30:56.970]and this is the perfect example
- [00:30:57.985]of why you don't say, I don't see color.
- [00:31:01.320]Young children learn their colors very early on.
- [00:31:04.140]So what's the first thing a young child can relate to?
- [00:31:07.380]Color, and then from there,
- [00:31:09.930]we might do an activity
- [00:31:11.370]where we are noticing the different skin tones
- [00:31:13.710]and skin colors in the classroom.
- [00:31:15.139]And so I make it personable for them,
- [00:31:17.317]this child has this skin tone,
- [00:31:19.410]this child has this skin tone.
- [00:31:20.520]Well look at my skin tone.
- [00:31:21.630]And I might say, wait a minute, that's different.
- [00:31:24.150]And I start using vocabulary words
- [00:31:26.130]that are meaningful vocabulary words,
- [00:31:28.555]that's gonna play a role down the road
- [00:31:31.525]when we get to the hard topic of what racism is.
- [00:31:37.080]Thank you so much for joining us
- [00:31:38.940]for this insightful conversation with Ms. Miki Montgomery.
- [00:31:42.240]Sadly, our time for this episode has come to an end.
- [00:31:44.970]Don't worry though.
- [00:31:45.960]We will continue our conversation with Ms. Miki
- [00:31:47.990]in our next episode,
- [00:31:49.200]which will be released on February 27th.
- [00:31:51.510]So mark your calendars, hit the Follow button
- [00:31:53.910]to tune in to the next part of this engaging discussion.
- [00:31:56.910]We also wanna hear from you, our fantastic listeners,
- [00:31:59.430]share your thoughts, reflections,
- [00:32:00.930]and burning questions about this episode
- [00:32:02.880]with us on our Nebraska Extension
- [00:32:04.620]Early Childhood Facebook page.
- [00:32:06.240]Or if you prefer, email us at earlychildhood@unl.edu.
- [00:32:10.530]All podcast related emails are immediately directed to me,
- [00:32:13.830]so I will be the one reading and reviewing them.
- [00:32:16.380]But before we end the show,
- [00:32:17.730]I wanna let you know that this episode
- [00:32:19.410]will be released in its entirety without any edits
- [00:32:22.320]beyond basic sound quality improvements.
- [00:32:24.780]This decision ensures our guest narrative
- [00:32:26.730]remains unaltered and our team's perspective,
- [00:32:29.280]doesn't unintentionally influence it.
- [00:32:31.140]The full length unedited version will be released
- [00:32:34.260]on Media Hub on February 27th.
- [00:32:36.780]We will include a link to it
- [00:32:38.190]in the next show's episode notes.
- [00:32:40.920]Let's take a quick break to hear from a Nebraska youngster
- [00:32:44.610]as they share what they like about their teacher.
- [00:32:47.580]My favorite teacher is Brenna.
- [00:32:50.220]How does Brenna make you feel?
- [00:32:52.320]Happy.
- [00:32:53.340]Why?
- [00:32:55.080]Because I love all my teachers.
- [00:32:57.720]She likes to play with me.
- [00:33:00.592]This has been an episode of "The Good Life in Early Life,"
- [00:33:04.380]a Nebraska Extension Early Childhood production,
- [00:33:06.720]with your host, Emily Manning.
- [00:33:08.250]For more information on early childhood,
- [00:33:10.050]check out our website at child.unl.edu.
- [00:33:12.990]The show production team is Emily Manning,
- [00:33:15.150]Dr. Holly Hatton, Erin Campbell,
- [00:33:17.105]Ingrid Lyndal, Linda Reddish,
- [00:33:19.230]Kim Wellsand, LaDonna Wirth, and Katie Kraus.
- [00:33:21.990]This episode has been reviewed by our team,
- [00:33:24.210]and most importantly, the guest.
- [00:33:26.010]See you next time, and thanks for listening.
- [00:33:28.350]Bye-Bye.
- [00:33:29.606](upbeat music)
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