S1E10: Holiday Grief: Honoring Our Healing and Loved Ones
Nebraska Extension Early Childhood Program Area-Emily Manning, Dr. Holly Hatton, Ingrid Lindal, Erin Kampbell, Linda Reddish, Katie Krause, and LaDonna Werth
Author
12/12/2023
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Description
Our holiday series continues with Extension Educator Linda Reddish joining host Emily Manning to tackle grief during the holidays. We hear definitions of grief, examples of how people mourn, and why holidays sometimes sharpen grief. Linda shares ways to give space for grief during the holidays and we end with a joyful note hearing from our youngest Nebraskans.
Resources:
https://sesameworkshop.org/resources/
https://thecollectiveforhope.org
https://speakinggrief.org
https://farmhotline.com
https://ruralwellness.unl.edu/ambiguousloss
https://www.ambiguousloss.com
https://www.routledge.com/Series-in-Death-Dying-and-Bereavement/book-series/SE0620?a=1&pg=5
The following music was used for this media project:
Music: Afterparty Review by Sascha Ende
Free download: https://filmmusic.io/song/2962-afterparty-review
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
"Wholesome" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Searchable Transcript
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- [00:00:00.244](upbeat music)
- [00:00:08.490]This is the Good Life in Early Life,
- [00:00:11.490]a production of Nebraska Extension.
- [00:00:13.500]I'm your host, Emily Manning,
- [00:00:15.060]an Early Childhood Extension Educator
- [00:00:16.724]located in Seward County.
- [00:00:18.750]The holidays can be a wonderful and joyous time,
- [00:00:21.900]but at times, not everything is so bright and shiny,
- [00:00:25.350]especially if we are experiencing loss or grief.
- [00:00:28.050]In this episode, we are exploring grief during the holidays
- [00:00:30.900]and how to support you and children
- [00:00:32.820]with grief during the season.
- [00:00:34.560]Our guest today is a statewide extension educator
- [00:00:37.410]on the early childhood team with the University of Nebraska
- [00:00:40.260]Lincoln, Nebraska Extension.
- [00:00:42.030]She's responsible for the overall leadership
- [00:00:44.190]and implementation of Extension's
- [00:00:46.020]Co-Parenting for a Successful Kids program.
- [00:00:48.690]More recently though, her work has focused on grief.
- [00:00:51.420]After completing the University of Minnesota's
- [00:00:53.550]Ambiguous Loss Certificate program,
- [00:00:55.800]she's also completed a 20 plus hour comprehensive training
- [00:00:58.980]with the Collective for Hope to lead grief support groups.
- [00:01:01.950]Last year, she co-facilitated a peer support group focused
- [00:01:04.709]on those who have experienced pregnancy and child loss.
- [00:01:08.820]Welcome to the show, Linda Reddish.
- [00:01:10.860]Thanks Emily. I'm really glad to be here today.
- [00:01:12.840]Yeah, we're really excited to have you Linda,
- [00:01:14.760]and to hear what you have to say about grief
- [00:01:17.250]during the holidays.
- [00:01:18.450]Maybe not a topic the listeners were expecting,
- [00:01:21.210]but definitely something that I think quite
- [00:01:23.670]a few of us have experienced.
- [00:01:25.140]So before we get into talking about grief
- [00:01:27.330]during the holidays, I wanna ask you
- [00:01:29.370]what is your favorite memory from your childhood?
- [00:01:32.160]I think one of my favorite memories, and maybe it's
- [00:01:34.530]'cause I'm in the field of early childhood too,
- [00:01:36.690]but I tried to think about a time in early childhood
- [00:01:39.660]that has really stuck with me and maybe either indirectly
- [00:01:43.170]or directly influenced me to take this career path.
- [00:01:46.230]But for sure when I was in preschool,
- [00:01:49.020]I attended Red Balloon Preschool, where I grew up
- [00:01:51.540]and I can still like remember it to this day.
- [00:01:53.640]Instead of like a dramatic play kitchen area,
- [00:01:57.480]my preschool built like this wall
- [00:02:00.307]that looked like a cheese wedge.
- [00:02:02.760]And so like you would crawl through the little hole
- [00:02:06.161]and you would go up a step
- [00:02:08.130]and you could poke your head out
- [00:02:09.300]of like another little hole,
- [00:02:10.650]but there were little spots with play kitchen items,
- [00:02:14.220]dress up, you know, our baby dolls.
- [00:02:16.500]But you could go basically up the ramp of the wedge
- [00:02:19.980]and play inside and then come back out.
- [00:02:22.200]Of course nowadays I think like, "Oh my gosh, supervision,
- [00:02:24.600]how can you look inside the wedge?"
- [00:02:25.920]Like all those things, but I can just remember having
- [00:02:28.786]so much fun playing inside of it
- [00:02:31.670]and then it stayed with me all of these years.
- [00:02:34.470]That's really unique for sure.
- [00:02:36.300]I wonder if it's still there to this day,
- [00:02:39.300]but like you said, maybe like safety
- [00:02:41.070]and supervision things, it might not be there anymore,
- [00:02:44.490]but that's really unique.
- [00:02:46.050]Yeah, it definitely was a lot of fun.
- [00:02:47.760]Linda, I was gonna ask you, and this is not a question
- [00:02:50.340]that I've always asked,
- [00:02:51.870]but I wanted to ask you today,
- [00:02:53.550]was there a particular educator
- [00:02:55.350]or an adult in your life that was especially helpful
- [00:02:58.530]to you in your childhood?
- [00:03:00.180]Yeah, so whenever I get asked this question,
- [00:03:02.970]it's always the same person always.
- [00:03:05.520]I always come back to middle school.
- [00:03:06.960]My parents separated and divorced in middle school.
- [00:03:09.870]I was struggling academically, social emotionally,
- [00:03:14.280]and just really grieving.
- [00:03:15.930]At the same time, our middle school started a new program
- [00:03:18.966]and they were matching middle schoolers with some
- [00:03:22.110]of the staff who would volunteer to be mentors
- [00:03:25.230]of those middle schoolers, you know,
- [00:03:27.420]who were just really kind of struggling.
- [00:03:28.860]And some were teachers, some were staff,
- [00:03:31.198]but my particular mentor that got assigned to me was their
- [00:03:35.550]instructional technology specialist.
- [00:03:38.640]And so she was housed in the library,
- [00:03:40.950]which one I loved reading.
- [00:03:42.750]So that was like an obvious like match in the making there.
- [00:03:46.230]Her name was Mrs. Judy Abatte
- [00:03:48.420]and of course she will always be Mrs. Abatte to me.
- [00:03:52.177]I get later in life,
- [00:03:54.283]I can never call her Judy, but Mrs. Abatte
- [00:03:57.170]would meet with me once a week
- [00:03:59.040]and I got to spend my lunch hour with her.
- [00:04:01.110]She would just ask me like the best kind of questions.
- [00:04:04.680]She would introduce me to new foods
- [00:04:06.750]with her the first time I ever tabbouleh, which I like-
- [00:04:10.170]Oh, what is that? Can't get enough of today.
- [00:04:12.180]So, it's like a couscous, parsley, and tomato dish
- [00:04:15.480]and it was just so delicious
- [00:04:18.510]and that was like the first time I ever tried that.
- [00:04:20.640]But she just really helped me a lot.
- [00:04:22.650]She really helped me process what I was going through
- [00:04:25.650]and she, you know, I think we've all had that experience,
- [00:04:28.830]where someone's either talking at us or talking with us.
- [00:04:31.890]She really kind of taught me that lesson at a time,
- [00:04:34.590]when I was really struggling
- [00:04:36.300]and going through a lot and it was like one
- [00:04:37.910]of the strongest memories I still have of this day
- [00:04:40.830]of someone just being with you instead of trying to fix it,
- [00:04:43.628]instead of trying to tell you what to do.
- [00:04:45.840]I still keep in contact with her today.
- [00:04:47.820]When she had children of her own,
- [00:04:49.110]I wound up babysitting her kids.
- [00:04:51.243]And then now her kids are old enough technically
- [00:04:54.090]to babysit my kids.
- [00:04:55.800]But I just love that we still have
- [00:04:58.950]that connection to this day.
- [00:05:00.330]I love that too.
- [00:05:01.590]She sounds like she was a really special person
- [00:05:03.626]and still is to you and was there for you
- [00:05:06.540]during a particularly difficult time
- [00:05:08.430]when your parents had separated.
- [00:05:10.170]And that leads to our next question, Linda, what is grief?
- [00:05:13.440]Yeah, so I appreciate being able
- [00:05:15.180]to talk about this topic today.
- [00:05:16.830]It definitely was grieving.
- [00:05:18.360]I think that that's the thing when I talk about grief,
- [00:05:21.060]Emily, there's like a broad common definition, right,
- [00:05:23.850]that's backed by literature
- [00:05:25.200]and different organizations like the Mayo Clinic,
- [00:05:28.650]CannaMedia Pediatrics, National Institute of Health, right?
- [00:05:31.740]So all these kind of, well-recognized, well-known sort
- [00:05:34.410]of organizations, they all kind of define grief broadly
- [00:05:37.590]as like this just anguish that we experience
- [00:05:40.523]after significant loss.
- [00:05:42.540]Usually the way that most of us think about it
- [00:05:45.360]or most of our experience has typically been
- [00:05:47.520]around the death of a beloved person in our life.
- [00:05:50.460]My example of grieving as a child when my parents separated,
- [00:05:54.180]that's another example, right?
- [00:05:55.740]Some other places where we can be grieving
- [00:05:58.418]after a significant loss period.
- [00:06:01.590]Death is a significant loss,
- [00:06:03.330]but so is an imagined future
- [00:06:05.400]with another person like divorce.
- [00:06:07.050]So is experiencing the loss of a job
- [00:06:10.140]or a home, a natural disaster.
- [00:06:11.970]So there's lots of different losses that we experience
- [00:06:14.591]that can go into grief.
- [00:06:16.500]I agree with this definition.
- [00:06:18.240]I think the way that I sometimes simplify it to explain it
- [00:06:21.300]to others is I just say that grief is our response
- [00:06:24.750]and our reaction to that loss.
- [00:06:26.490]And that reaction can be physical,
- [00:06:29.167]it can show up emotionally, it can show up mental,
- [00:06:32.820]but it really boils down to that's our reaction
- [00:06:36.270]and our response to that loss.
- [00:06:37.950]Yeah, I really like that definition
- [00:06:40.170]and your simplified version too
- [00:06:42.217]because it doesn't define what that reaction
- [00:06:45.810]or response looks like or what it is.
- [00:06:47.940]It doesn't say, well crying after losing your person
- [00:06:51.140]or losing a spouse.
- [00:06:52.980]That's grief. No.
- [00:06:54.210]It's just whatever reaction or response you have to a loss.
- [00:06:58.740]And I really like that it leaves it open-ended
- [00:07:00.900]because all of us are so unique and individual
- [00:07:03.840]and we are gonna have different responses
- [00:07:06.030]to the losses in our life.
- [00:07:07.890]I really wanna go back to something that you just said,
- [00:07:10.410]which I appreciate.
- [00:07:11.610]You said, it doesn't really define the way
- [00:07:14.280]that we grieve, right?
- [00:07:15.570]It's so many of us experience grief in such a unique way.
- [00:07:19.620]And so the one thing that I think is helpful to kind
- [00:07:23.430]of know about grief is that it is uniquely individual
- [00:07:27.240]and yet it is something collectively we all experience.
- [00:07:31.890]So grief is also this human experience that we will all
- [00:07:36.330]go through, but it is so uniquely individual
- [00:07:39.300]and the way that a person grieves can be totally different
- [00:07:43.230]than the way another person grieves.
- [00:07:44.970]So when I follow up on this other part of your question
- [00:07:47.550]where you said like, you know, what are some of the things
- [00:07:49.560]that could bring about the feelings of grief?
- [00:07:51.510]I think that can be helpful to know
- [00:07:53.010]that most people are sort of familiar
- [00:07:54.870]with the five stages of grief.
- [00:07:56.460]I think in the last couple years we've had a lot
- [00:07:58.470]of clarification around the five stages of grief
- [00:08:01.470]and the literature and the research, but also just broadly
- [00:08:04.320]because of COVID, a lot of attention
- [00:08:06.918]and media was put on grieving
- [00:08:10.050]and trying to clarify that those five stages
- [00:08:12.240]of grief were really initially for an individual
- [00:08:14.820]who was in hospice and they themselves
- [00:08:16.680]actually actively dying.
- [00:08:18.390]And so I tend to describe grief as a continuum,
- [00:08:22.110]which is based on some other work about looking at
- [00:08:25.020]grief as a continuum.
- [00:08:26.520]And it can be either intuitive or it can be instrumental.
- [00:08:29.790]And I can go into a little bit more about
- [00:08:31.740]that more specifically.
- [00:08:33.480]But it's just helpful to know that there are different ways
- [00:08:36.577]that grief can come about without just
- [00:08:39.360]looking at those five stages.
- [00:08:41.040]Thank you for addressing the five stages of grief, Linda,
- [00:08:43.980]because it isn't applicable to everyone.
- [00:08:47.613]Like you said, it was done for a specific population
- [00:08:51.030]of people and it's kind of a little bit of a pet peeve
- [00:08:53.340]of mine when they use it in TV shows or movies
- [00:08:56.550]as kind of like a quick way to explain
- [00:08:58.800]a character's behavior after a loss
- [00:09:01.036]because that isn't right necessarily
- [00:09:03.930]to apply it in every situation,
- [00:09:06.150]and to every individual who's experiencing loss
- [00:09:09.000]and exhibiting grief.
- [00:09:10.470]You mentioned that grief expression can be
- [00:09:13.586]instrumental or intuitive.
- [00:09:16.080]Is that correct?
- [00:09:16.913]Did you wanna describe what those two things
- [00:09:19.320]are a little bit more?
- [00:09:20.400]This particular theory was actually kind of made out
- [00:09:23.760]of this idea of looking at the five stages.
- [00:09:26.820]And it's not to say that those feelings won't happen.
- [00:09:29.610]So in the five stages group they talk about anger,
- [00:09:32.310]denial, acceptance.
- [00:09:33.750]We will likely experience that when we're grieving.
- [00:09:37.350]Maybe it's the educator in me, but I call that the PTA.
- [00:09:40.410]So the way that I explain it, it's like the expression
- [00:09:43.800]of our grief or how it might show up in our bodies is
- [00:09:46.440]physical, physical reactions.
- [00:09:48.810]So these physical reactions
- [00:09:50.400]that might show up in our body is like loss of appetite,
- [00:09:53.370]changes in sleep,
- [00:09:54.750]finding ourselves feeling more fatigued or tired.
- [00:09:57.150]And then there's the thoughts, right?
- [00:09:59.250]PTA, the thoughts that we have where we might be ruminating
- [00:10:03.450]or having difficulty concentrating.
- [00:10:06.300]We might be wondering, you know, am I grieving right?
- [00:10:09.090]Am I not grieving, right?
- [00:10:10.290]There's just all these thoughts
- [00:10:11.340]and then these actions
- [00:10:12.960]where our behaviors could actually wind up changing.
- [00:10:15.900]Like we might be more angry, we might be in denial,
- [00:10:18.450]we might be, you know, having difficulty staying focused.
- [00:10:21.480]So those are all the ways that I think of
- [00:10:24.630]when I think about the stages of grief.
- [00:10:26.160]It's not to necessarily minimize that
- [00:10:28.410]'cause that's important work, but there's just other ways.
- [00:10:31.530]So we talk about what we might be feeling in our body
- [00:10:33.750]and then we move to your question
- [00:10:35.460]around like the expression of grief.
- [00:10:37.410]So that is a continuum.
- [00:10:39.270]There's no right or wrong way to do it,
- [00:10:40.950]but it can be kinda helpful to reflect
- [00:10:44.040]and say "Hi, I wonder if I tend,
- [00:10:46.590]when I think about experiences when I've had a loss,
- [00:10:49.260]am I more instrumental in my grief,
- [00:10:51.510]which means I sort of turn inward
- [00:10:53.880]and I think about, okay, how am I feeling after this death?"
- [00:10:57.720]You might seek more solitude to reflect and be independent.
- [00:11:01.890]You might find yourself doing problem
- [00:11:04.217]solving or decision making.
- [00:11:06.630]I once had somebody explain the instrumental to me
- [00:11:09.720]and they had an individual who had lost a parent,
- [00:11:13.680]lost their father.
- [00:11:14.550]The morning of the service,
- [00:11:16.770]he was out fixing the fence
- [00:11:19.050]and everyone's like, "We gotta go like it's time, right?"
- [00:11:21.227]And he was like, "No, I need to fix the fence."
- [00:11:23.520]And there is, could be
- [00:11:24.600]because in instrumental grievers,
- [00:11:26.220]sometimes there's a reluctance to talk about the feelings,
- [00:11:29.010]but they also have this idea of being future oriented.
- [00:11:32.430]And so being able to physically do something physical ways,
- [00:11:35.670]action orientated, that's instrumental grievers.
- [00:11:38.280]Whereas on the intuitive grievers,
- [00:11:40.650]they're openly expressing their feelings.
- [00:11:43.260]They can intuitively know what's going on inside
- [00:11:45.960]of their bodies and they'll seek support from others.
- [00:11:48.420]These are, you know, individuals
- [00:11:50.100]who want comfort from others, who will openly express
- [00:11:54.300]that they're grieving and having sorrow.
- [00:11:56.430]Again, it's a continuum, right?
- [00:11:58.200]So it doesn't mean that you're at one end or the other.
- [00:12:00.180]You could be in the middle where you're having
- [00:12:02.132]expressions of grief in both.
- [00:12:04.200]But what can be helpful is to know, like
- [00:12:06.180]for an intuitive griever, you might benefit from being
- [00:12:09.450]around others, you might benefit from being able to have
- [00:12:12.060]that opportunity to express your sorrow
- [00:12:14.010]and grief with others
- [00:12:15.180]and really having your feelings validated.
- [00:12:17.160]On the instrumental griever,
- [00:12:18.930]it may be helpful, or if you're an instrumental griever
- [00:12:21.690]or supporting an instrumental griever, to just create
- [00:12:23.788]that space for that person to work through their grief,
- [00:12:26.700]that their lack of verbal expression
- [00:12:28.725]or their lack of physical thoughts, actions,
- [00:12:32.880]doesn't mean that they're not grieving.
- [00:12:34.920]It just looks different.
- [00:12:35.820]Yeah, I like that.
- [00:12:36.900]It doesn't mean that they're not grieving,
- [00:12:38.640]they're just grieving in a different way
- [00:12:40.380]that we maybe don't recognize as a society right now.
- [00:12:44.310]So when we look at an individual and they're not crying
- [00:12:47.280]or they're not talking about their feelings,
- [00:12:48.930]it doesn't mean they're not feeling it
- [00:12:50.460]or expressing it in different ways.
- [00:12:52.350]They're just doing it in a way that is unique to them
- [00:12:54.720]and what makes sense to them as an individual.
- [00:12:57.330]And if you really wanna like go more in depth
- [00:12:59.640]on the instrumental and intuitive grievers,
- [00:13:01.950]looking at Dr. Martin and Dr. Doka's work.
- [00:13:05.580]So those are the individuals who really researched
- [00:13:09.510]and you know, sort of defined this continuum of grieving.
- [00:13:14.289]But you know, the example I shared about, you know,
- [00:13:17.790]the son whose father and was like,
- [00:13:19.477]"I gotta fix my dad's fence."
- [00:13:21.630]Like that was grief and action.
- [00:13:23.670]Yeah, grief and action.
- [00:13:24.810]That's maybe a good way to think
- [00:13:26.130]of the instrumental grievers is grief in action.
- [00:13:29.550]So Linda, what are some things that can bring about grief
- [00:13:32.970]that is not just a loss of a life or like a death,
- [00:13:37.440]and maybe even for children, what are some things
- [00:13:39.720]that would bring about grief?
- [00:13:42.150]So there's different types of losses,
- [00:13:44.700]which can bring about grief.
- [00:13:46.080]So some of the more common ones that we're aware of,
- [00:13:49.950]you know, it's like anticipatory grief.
- [00:13:52.290]So we know a loss is coming
- [00:13:54.270]and so even if maybe not the immediate death
- [00:13:56.720]of the individual has happened, we're anticipating that.
- [00:14:00.210]And so that anticipatory grief, that anticipatory loss,
- [00:14:03.690]there's also disenfranchised loss.
- [00:14:06.030]So those, I do a lot of support in the past year
- [00:14:08.790]with individuals and families who have experienced pregnancy
- [00:14:11.970]and child loss.
- [00:14:13.290]And so pregnancy loss can be
- [00:14:15.990]considered disenfranchised grief.
- [00:14:17.610]I think we're starting to move
- [00:14:19.320]towards recognizing that loss but-
- [00:14:21.390]So what is the disenfranchised grief?
- [00:14:23.520]Yeah, it's a loss that's not really recognized
- [00:14:26.245]typically in society.
- [00:14:27.990]So that's where that like kind of disenfranchised.
- [00:14:30.210]I think of it like a, is there a greeting card
- [00:14:32.460]for that kinda loss?
- [00:14:33.570]So I think we're starting to get there,
- [00:14:35.368]but if you think about when was a time,
- [00:14:38.153]where maybe someone you knew experienced a pregnancy loss,
- [00:14:41.853]were you able to go into the grocery store
- [00:14:44.190]and find a card for that specific, right?
- [00:14:47.160]Typically by, you know, a family relationship,
- [00:14:49.410]like death of a grandparent, you know,
- [00:14:51.390]death of a parent, a loved one.
- [00:14:53.460]But is there a pregnancy loss one, I mean pet loss too,
- [00:14:56.820]that's become more recognized a little bit,
- [00:14:59.160]but there's also disenfranchised, like the loss of a job,
- [00:15:02.430]loss of a home, natural disasters.
- [00:15:04.980]Like we know that these are significant losses.
- [00:15:07.650]Dr. Michelle Kriebel and I have been looking at
- [00:15:10.890]family farm succession when it comes to ambiguous loss.
- [00:15:14.100]What happens if there isn't someone there,
- [00:15:16.350]who's able to take on the succession?
- [00:15:18.990]It's a grief,
- [00:15:20.550]you're not maybe necessarily having a significant loss,
- [00:15:23.940]but there's this feeling with ambiguous loss where you know
- [00:15:27.450]that something's there
- [00:15:28.440]but you can't quite put your finger on it.
- [00:15:30.480]Gotcha yeah, so many different types of grief
- [00:15:33.420]and loss are out there.
- [00:15:35.340]So it could be helpful to kind of look over those.
- [00:15:37.950]Just to make sure I loop back to your other question,
- [00:15:39.990]which is what are some of the things
- [00:15:41.460]that can bring about loss?
- [00:15:43.800]And so I think about this particular episode
- [00:15:46.440]where we're talking about holidays.
- [00:15:48.840]So I talked about there's types of losses of grief,
- [00:15:51.540]but then what are some of the feelings that can bring about
- [00:15:54.030]that grieving of that loss?
- [00:15:56.010]And holidays is a big one.
- [00:15:58.170]I mean, yes, it's a wonderful time.
- [00:16:00.750]I know as soon as I start to hear, you know,
- [00:16:03.060]like holiday music on the radio,
- [00:16:04.980]you can get into the sort of that spirit.
- [00:16:06.990]But there's also, you know, just kind of like
- [00:16:08.820]so much emotion that can be tied into the holidays too.
- [00:16:13.500]Both things can be true.
- [00:16:14.850]You can be excited for the holiday coming
- [00:16:17.313]and looking forward to it,
- [00:16:18.930]but it might be your first holiday without a loved one.
- [00:16:22.620]And so then there's this grief like, gosh,
- [00:16:24.600]I remember when my abuela had passed away
- [00:16:27.510]and I was thinking like, this is the first holiday without
- [00:16:30.382]my abuela, without my grandmother.
- [00:16:32.520]And I was like, ugh, like I'm looking forward to it.
- [00:16:35.970]But also like, this is just so sad
- [00:16:38.160]because of course I wish that she had more.
- [00:16:40.350]Another way that you might be grieving
- [00:16:42.150]is the loss of a relationship
- [00:16:44.220]or having a strained relationship.
- [00:16:46.410]So we focus a lot on the death of the beloved one,
- [00:16:49.440]but relationships can also change.
- [00:16:52.230]And so there could be the loss of a relationship
- [00:16:54.240]and that can be really tender, right?
- [00:16:56.400]Because there's this presence of that person in your mind,
- [00:16:59.670]but they're physically absent,
- [00:17:01.290]links back to ambiguous loss, right?
- [00:17:03.390]But for whatever reason you might not be in
- [00:17:05.280]communication with that person.
- [00:17:07.050]And so it just changes how you approach the holidays too.
- [00:17:10.890]So holidays can be a time,
- [00:17:12.129]where you bring about a lot of different losses.
- [00:17:15.090]Individuals who have recently gone through divorce,
- [00:17:17.310]all of a sudden now you're trying to navigate
- [00:17:19.350]the changing dynamics of relationships.
- [00:17:21.600]Not that all who go through divorce necessarily.
- [00:17:24.660]You know, there's many who have collaborative
- [00:17:27.300]and celebrate the holidays together,
- [00:17:28.890]but for others that's just not in a space
- [00:17:30.540]where they can beat at this point in the transition.
- [00:17:32.850]So that can be, you know, its own process of feeling
- [00:17:36.630]and bringing about those feelings of grief.
- [00:17:38.970]And for children, we can talk a little bit more about
- [00:17:41.610]that but you know, the holidays can bring about grieving in
- [00:17:43.860]children too because they're just
- [00:17:46.140]thinking about that person.
- [00:17:47.790]And so it's not uncommon around holidays for children
- [00:17:50.760]to really grieve and miss the absence
- [00:17:52.890]of that person in their life.
- [00:17:54.240]Yeah, I was also thinking when you mentioned like loss
- [00:17:57.990]of a loved one and when you lose a loved one,
- [00:18:01.410]you might lose some of the traditions that
- [00:18:03.510]that person helped to keep going within your family.
- [00:18:07.290]Or maybe they were the ones to host it at their house
- [00:18:10.260]and now you're not able to go to that place.
- [00:18:12.630]When you lose a loved one,
- [00:18:14.471]you might also lose some additional things,
- [00:18:17.940]some additional holiday traditions on top of that, that kind
- [00:18:21.810]of compounds the other grief that you're feeling for
- [00:18:24.540]that person as well.
- [00:18:25.920]Yeah, I mean you bring us back to this, what is grief?
- [00:18:29.010]It's a reaction and a response to that loss.
- [00:18:33.840]So you really highlighted a very tangible example of that.
- [00:18:38.580]Like a reaction to the death of a beloved person
- [00:18:41.356]is we might not host dinner at that home anymore.
- [00:18:45.090]Or it could be this person was the one who knew how
- [00:18:48.420]to make chestnut soup just the right way.
- [00:18:50.430]And now that's my personal one
- [00:18:51.990]that I think about all the time.
- [00:18:53.190]You know, I lost one of my moms really tragically
- [00:18:55.530]in a car accident and she always made, you know,
- [00:18:58.500]chestnut soup around the holidays
- [00:18:59.910]and I was like, "Oh, I just miss that so much now"
- [00:19:02.550]when the holidays are all around.
- [00:19:03.930]So this idea of reactions
- [00:19:05.760]and responses to a loss, I really appreciate
- [00:19:09.030]how you sort of made that very tangible for anyone
- [00:19:12.300]who might be listening 'cause they're likely thinking about
- [00:19:14.610]it in the literature.
- [00:19:15.900]If you wanna learn more about that,
- [00:19:17.640]there's something called the primary loss
- [00:19:19.680]and then the secondary losses.
- [00:19:22.203]So the secondary losses are all the ripples.
- [00:19:25.620]I think of it like a ripple if you throw a stone, right,
- [00:19:28.710]throwing the stone is the primary loss,
- [00:19:30.720]but when that stone hits, there's ripples.
- [00:19:32.640]Those ripples are our secondary losses.
- [00:19:34.827]And I think with those ripples, with the secondary losses,
- [00:19:37.830]I don't think there's as much support as there is
- [00:19:40.110]for that primary loss.
- [00:19:41.430]Like people show up
- [00:19:42.690]and help you with that primary loss,
- [00:19:44.670]especially if it's a loss
- [00:19:46.410]that's recognized like a death of a loved one.
- [00:19:48.330]But then with the ripples that come after,
- [00:19:50.820]there isn't as much support available
- [00:19:52.710]to people typically to deal with those
- [00:19:54.780]or to have help dealing with them.
- [00:19:56.910]Yeah, the secondary losses are just so uniquely
- [00:20:01.860]individualized and it's a collective experience
- [00:20:04.890]we all go through.
- [00:20:06.000]And so those secondary losses can also just
- [00:20:08.370]look so different.
- [00:20:09.720]The secondary losses are always helpful
- [00:20:12.720]I think, or maybe helpful.
- [00:20:14.730]I encourage in my peer support groups, it's one
- [00:20:17.160]of the activities we do, we write down the primary loss
- [00:20:20.005]but then we make, you know, circles bubbling out for that of
- [00:20:23.940]what are your secondary losses and then what are ways
- [00:20:27.216]or things that you need to help cope
- [00:20:29.790]with those secondary losses
- [00:20:31.260]or have you even been able
- [00:20:32.550]to pinpoint those secondary losses?
- [00:20:34.590]And that's an activity we do in the peer support group.
- [00:20:36.930]Oh, I like that activity.
- [00:20:38.430]Helps bring 'em to light for sure.
- [00:20:40.170]Well you were talking about earlier that grief is kind
- [00:20:43.560]of like a universal experience that we're all gonna have.
- [00:20:47.280]And I was gonna ask you,
- [00:20:48.660]when was the first time you remembering experiencing grief
- [00:20:51.510]or loss as a child and how were you helped
- [00:20:54.240]or supported during that time?
- [00:20:56.400]The first time that I experienced grief
- [00:21:00.013]and really death as a child was the death of a grandparent.
- [00:21:03.540]When I look back on that, I can clearly see now that one
- [00:21:07.320]of my parents was very much an instrumental griever.
- [00:21:10.650]Oh yeah.
- [00:21:11.610]At the time I was like,
- [00:21:13.260]this is just so confusing.
- [00:21:15.210]You know, some people are just really expressing their grief
- [00:21:18.240]and crying, but yet my parents just sitting here very
- [00:21:20.850]stoically, you know, not making a sound.
- [00:21:23.340]And it was sort of like we showed up, we got in, we got out.
- [00:21:26.310]And when I look back now I think, oh wow,
- [00:21:29.160]that was just a different continuum than the grief of where,
- [00:21:32.520]you know, that particular parent was at at that time.
- [00:21:35.010]But that was the first time I can remember really
- [00:21:37.050]experiencing grief.
- [00:21:38.280]I think the next time that I can think about
- [00:21:40.860]how has this influenced the way I think about grief now,
- [00:21:43.571]I go back to my experience with my mentor,
- [00:21:47.220]and I think about how she did not treat grief
- [00:21:51.090]at the separation of a parent,
- [00:21:53.190]of parents as a disenfranchised grief.
- [00:21:55.350]You know, she was just with me during that transition,
- [00:21:58.140]during that change.
- [00:21:59.580]So, you know, I've had really kind of a couple
- [00:22:02.151]of instances really role modeled well for me
- [00:22:05.460]in how grief can look so different.
- [00:22:07.350]Yeah thanks for sharing that Linda.
- [00:22:09.480]I was gonna share a couple of my experiences
- [00:22:12.840]with grief as a child.
- [00:22:14.430]My first experience with like kind of a major loss
- [00:22:16.697]as a child was the loss of my stuffed animal.
- [00:22:19.650]I had a stuffed Bunny and I very creatively named it Bunny
- [00:22:24.630]and I lost it
- [00:22:26.310]and my parents couldn't figure out where it was.
- [00:22:29.250]It wasn't in any of like the usual spots in the house
- [00:22:32.400]or at my daycare 'cause they let us take it in.
- [00:22:35.010]So I was really, really upset about losing the stuffed Bunny
- [00:22:38.760]and worried about was it okay, was it in a safe place?
- [00:22:43.200]I know that sounds really silly probably
- [00:22:44.760]to our adult listeners,
- [00:22:45.900]but that might be one of the first things
- [00:22:47.820]that children experience is like the loss of that,
- [00:22:50.670]that comfort item that they have.
- [00:22:52.380]But then the first time I experienced grief
- [00:22:54.870]due to the result of a death, my aunt died from cancer
- [00:22:59.040]and she was pretty young,
- [00:23:00.450]and I just remember as a child being at the funeral
- [00:23:04.320]and so many people were just openly crying and just so sad.
- [00:23:08.580]And I just felt so guilty and ashamed
- [00:23:12.570]because I was not crying.
- [00:23:14.313]I was very sad.
- [00:23:15.990]I felt sad inside but I was not physically crying.
- [00:23:19.830]But then years and years later, I was maybe in high school
- [00:23:24.570]or college, I was riding in the car with my mom
- [00:23:27.210]and one of the songs from her funeral came on the radio
- [00:23:30.240]and I just immediately started sobbing
- [00:23:33.450]and my mom was like, "What is wrong?
- [00:23:35.160]Like why are you crying?"
- [00:23:36.420]And I was like, "This was playing at her funeral"
- [00:23:39.005]and I was just, I don't know if it was a delayed grief
- [00:23:42.450]reaction or what, but it really hit me later on.
- [00:23:46.980]So yeah, just a few experiences as a child.
- [00:23:50.700]Luckily I felt very supported
- [00:23:52.380]by my family during those times.
- [00:23:54.450]First, I'm just so sorry that both your losses for Bunny
- [00:23:58.523]and your aunt right?
- [00:24:02.010]I am 'cause those, your Bunny is important.
- [00:24:05.452]And for listeners who will be listening to the podcast,
- [00:24:09.637]they probably are all picturing a child right now,
- [00:24:12.103]who has experienced something like that.
- [00:24:14.610]And your example of being able to share that again sort
- [00:24:18.780]of speaks to its individual, it's collective
- [00:24:21.600]and we can normalize it
- [00:24:22.881]and think about all the different ways that we can show up
- [00:24:26.670]for individuals when they're having a significant
- [00:24:30.073]loss in their life.
- [00:24:31.950]Bunny was significant to you.
- [00:24:33.660]Now your aunt, this is where when I think about grief,
- [00:24:38.940]I tend to explain it based on
- [00:24:41.555]what I know on the topic and my training.
- [00:24:43.830]But also what we know is to be helpful
- [00:24:46.410]for individuals coping with grief.
- [00:24:48.030]We don't just get over it. We don't move on, right?
- [00:24:53.100]I say we move forward
- [00:24:54.690]'cause you'll always have your aunt there with you.
- [00:24:58.380]You'll always be thinking about your aunt.
- [00:25:00.630]And so for you, you're just moving forward with that loss.
- [00:25:05.130]But she's always there with you.
- [00:25:06.840]And so I'm not surprised that the song
- [00:25:08.909]that came on the radio instantly took you back there.
- [00:25:13.320]That's also not unusual.
- [00:25:15.570]I once had my grief facilitator explain to me
- [00:25:18.570]that grief can be like a pebble.
- [00:25:20.640]When he was explaining it to me, I thought
- [00:25:22.650]of The Princess and the Pea, but he said it's like
- [00:25:24.690]a pebble in your back pocket.
- [00:25:26.010]Sometimes it's a boulder, sometimes it's fish gravel,
- [00:25:29.310]it's there, right?
- [00:25:30.750]But the feeling, the weight of it, the sensation
- [00:25:33.470]of it can vary on any day,
- [00:25:35.730]but it's there, you move forward with it.
- [00:25:37.920]Those of us, I think in our education, we can relate
- [00:25:41.040]to the story of The Princess and the Pea.
- [00:25:43.140]The pea is there.
- [00:25:43.980]She feels it, it's not gonna go away.
- [00:25:46.050]She's just moving forward
- [00:25:47.310]and trying to figure out how to feel that sensation.
- [00:25:49.500]But that pea is huge.
- [00:25:53.220]It's not to be minimized because it's there.
- [00:25:56.160]It really is there.
- [00:25:57.480]I remember you talked about a song,
- [00:25:59.580]I remember when I was in the, I was at Hy-Vee shopping
- [00:26:03.030]for tomato can sauces and I picked up a tomato can sauce
- [00:26:06.630]and just started bawling 'cause it was right
- [00:26:08.640]around the holidays and I was missing one of my mom's
- [00:26:10.980]and I was like, "Ah there it's."
- [00:26:12.930]So that idea of bringing compassion,
- [00:26:16.080]understanding, patience, to not only those in our life
- [00:26:19.980]but also to ourselves is so important.
- [00:26:22.440]That it's okay to cry over the tomato can, it's okay
- [00:26:25.530]to cry over that song 'cause that's just our reaction
- [00:26:29.100]and we can't control that reaction.
- [00:26:31.530]And it's usually really unexpected too when it happens like,
- [00:26:35.137]"Oh, I didn't know this would remind me of them,
- [00:26:37.560]but I'm feeling this really deeply right now.
- [00:26:40.380]So I need to be really gentle with myself
- [00:26:43.170]as I'm feeling this."
- [00:26:44.760]Yeah and then when I think about children,
- [00:26:47.270]if I can take a minute to go back to Bunny.
- [00:26:49.710]Absolutely. Yeah.
- [00:26:51.090]There's a really great resource
- [00:26:53.400]that I strongly encourage
- [00:26:55.050]and recommend all the time through Sesame Workshops,
- [00:26:58.140]Sesame Streets, it's their nonprofit
- [00:27:00.750]where they do training and education.
- [00:27:02.640]But on Sesame Workshop, they have some really great
- [00:27:04.680]resources for helping children cope with grief.
- [00:27:07.080]But one of the things that they do really, really well
- [00:27:10.200]in that particular life kit resource is explain
- [00:27:13.200]how children approach grief.
- [00:27:14.760]And so we'll take your example of Bunny, if that's okay.
- [00:27:18.360]And children, as adults, we experience a significant loss
- [00:27:22.617]and we can process it over time.
- [00:27:24.552]But we understand that
- [00:27:26.130]that loss has happened at one moment of time.
- [00:27:28.770]It's very concrete for us thinking about eating an apple.
- [00:27:31.980]Like we can eat the apple in one sitting as an adult,
- [00:27:34.500]but kids tend to eat two
- [00:27:36.180]or three little bites, put it down and come back to it.
- [00:27:38.310]So when you talked about Bunny, Bunny was lost
- [00:27:40.800]and you kept circling back, even in your examples,
- [00:27:43.710]you said, I came back to my parents.
- [00:27:44.790]I'm like, where is Bunny? I miss Bunny.
- [00:27:47.220]It's like Bunny is gone and then you come back.
- [00:27:49.140]But I'm worried about Bunny.
- [00:27:50.580]Do you know if Bunny is okay? Will Bunny be okay right?
- [00:27:54.060]And then you probably went back out,
- [00:27:55.770]interacted in your world, you came back to your parents.
- [00:27:57.990]Are you sure no one knows where Bunny is at?
- [00:28:00.570]I'm still concerned about
- [00:28:02.070]because you're taking your
- [00:28:03.480]little bites of your loss.
- [00:28:05.220]You're processing it only so much as you can.
- [00:28:07.620]And so it takes time for kids too.
- [00:28:10.435]It's such an abstract concept.
- [00:28:12.960]And so again, encourage going back
- [00:28:16.500]and looking at that resource to help explain
- [00:28:19.020]to kids this concept of significant loss,
- [00:28:22.050]death of a loved one.
- [00:28:23.400]Because their ability to sort of process it,
- [00:28:27.360]just takes a little bit more time
- [00:28:29.130]and they need it explained to them in very concrete ways.
- [00:28:32.218]So if I use your Bunny again as an example, Bunny is lost,
- [00:28:37.170]Bunny won't be returning and then you came back.
- [00:28:39.630]But do you know if Bunny's okay, will Bunny be all right?
- [00:28:42.962]It's okay for you to be worried about Bunny.
- [00:28:46.230]Let's think about some things that you want
- [00:28:48.510]for Bunny knowing that Bunny's out there and lost.
- [00:28:51.270]So we might do a little activity there to help.
- [00:28:53.160]And then you circle back again.
- [00:28:54.780]If you could talk to Bunny, what are some of the things
- [00:28:57.060]that you would want Buddy to know?
- [00:28:58.770]Bunny is lost, Bunny won't be returning,
- [00:29:01.200]but what would you want just to continue?
- [00:29:03.090]Kids will continue to kind of circle back.
- [00:29:05.010]So you're being very concrete in the description,
- [00:29:07.830]but then you're also giving some opportunities
- [00:29:10.170]to help process that loss.
- [00:29:11.820]Yeah, I really like that you didn't answer that question
- [00:29:14.790]where, 'cause you didn't know, you didn't know
- [00:29:16.950]what was happening to Bunny so you weren't gonna lie
- [00:29:19.320]or you weren't gonna say something,
- [00:29:21.090]but you said, what would you want for Bunny right now?
- [00:29:24.011]So you're allowing that child to imagine
- [00:29:26.340]what they would want, which is more comforting I think.
- [00:29:29.460]So 'cause it wasn't okay. Was it Emily?
- [00:29:32.130]What? No, probably not. It wasn't okay.
- [00:29:34.027]It wasn't okay to lose Bunny.
- [00:29:36.120]And we do that as adults.
- [00:29:37.320]I do it sometimes too to my own child.
- [00:29:39.360]I say "It's alright, it's okay."
- [00:29:40.980]But was it really okay that you lost Bunny?
- [00:29:43.500]No, it was so hard to,
- [00:29:45.360]'cause I would go to sleep with Bunny.
- [00:29:46.427]It was so hard to learn how to go
- [00:29:48.090]to sleep without that stuffed animal.
- [00:29:50.010]So that's not okay. Not okay.
- [00:29:52.650]So I was also gonna ask you,
- [00:29:54.090]'cause I had a conversation with someone recently
- [00:29:57.030]and they had a child who was and experienced a loss,
- [00:30:01.290]but then they were going out
- [00:30:02.190]and playing like everything was normal.
- [00:30:04.500]And to them they were like,
- [00:30:05.880]are they sad or are they not?
- [00:30:07.890]And I think it's fairly normal, like you said,
- [00:30:10.650]like they might take a bite or they might experience sadness
- [00:30:15.000]or say that they're sad, but then they're gonna go about
- [00:30:17.105]kind of their daily routine.
- [00:30:18.930]I think that's somewhat normal, right Linda?
- [00:30:21.120]It is. It's totally normal.
- [00:30:22.890]And it may be helpful to know even that
- [00:30:25.350]children process their grief through play.
- [00:30:27.900]And so I'll never forget, I remember reading an article
- [00:30:32.293]about six to eight months
- [00:30:34.830]after the events of September 11th.
- [00:30:37.260]And there was an early childhood program
- [00:30:39.493]there in that space.
- [00:30:41.520]And then there were some several early childhood programs
- [00:30:43.770]and preschools nearby
- [00:30:45.000]and they worked with different play therapists
- [00:30:49.050]and some of Dr. Pauline bosses work there too.
- [00:30:51.990]But the children, right, would be building towers
- [00:30:54.300]and trying to reconcile
- [00:30:55.680]and make sense of what had just happened in their world.
- [00:30:58.380]So sometimes not only do we see children go off and play
- [00:31:02.040]and then come back and process like the example
- [00:31:04.050]that you were describing,
- [00:31:05.280]but I also get questions from adults
- [00:31:07.050]like I'm seeing some behaviors, some thoughts, some actions.
- [00:31:12.270]And there kids are processing
- [00:31:15.330]their loss through play.
- [00:31:17.490]So for children, both things can be true
- [00:31:20.460]and that can be really hard for an adult.
- [00:31:22.620]I can't imagine what that was like. I really can't.
- [00:31:25.440]When you know, this particular article was describing
- [00:31:28.770]how the children were processing, you know,
- [00:31:31.530]their loss in this really traumatic
- [00:31:34.170]experience through their play.
- [00:31:36.096]But that's how we kind of see kids go out.
- [00:31:38.580]They might process, play, go about their day, come back,
- [00:31:41.882]or they might process their loss through their play,
- [00:31:45.060]go out and come back.
- [00:31:46.350]It's this idea of little bits of information
- [00:31:49.410]because it's such an abstract thing.
- [00:31:51.810]I mean, just like adults, just like adults,
- [00:31:54.780]the way children respond and process grief is different.
- [00:31:58.350]And it's different based on their personality,
- [00:32:00.510]their developmental age, their experience, the amount
- [00:32:04.110]of coping and support they have following after it.
- [00:32:06.930]All of those things, just like those things influence us
- [00:32:09.510]as adult in our grieving, it also impacts children.
- [00:32:12.330]Thanks for that explanation Linda.
- [00:32:14.610]And I think it's just helpful to remember
- [00:32:16.740]that there is no one way to grieve for children or adults.
- [00:32:20.160]So just with the kids that you're working with
- [00:32:22.710]or the kids that you have, just remember that
- [00:32:25.350]and kind of individualize your response to their response
- [00:32:28.680]and their reaction and reach out to some of those resources
- [00:32:31.950]that we have mentioned previously
- [00:32:33.600]to get some more information on the topic
- [00:32:35.640]if you are interested in it.
- [00:32:37.050]I'm sorry, get the question Emily.
- [00:32:38.880]Like what are some ways that I can support children?
- [00:32:42.390]And since we're kind of thinking about like the holidays
- [00:32:45.000]right now, right?
- [00:32:45.870]Like what are some of the things that I can do
- [00:32:49.050]to support children who might be grieving
- [00:32:51.090]during the holidays?
- [00:32:52.230]If we go all the way back to the beginning of the episode,
- [00:32:54.150]we were talking about the five stages, right?
- [00:32:55.830]And one of the things that came out
- [00:32:57.990]of revisiting those five stages was actually looking at
- [00:33:00.870]adding an additional stage, which was meaning.
- [00:33:03.660]And that has really sort of expanded
- [00:33:06.784]in the grief literature and research.
- [00:33:09.360]But having rituals, having opportunities to process grief
- [00:33:14.070]and action and make meaning from that can be really helpful.
- [00:33:18.450]So an example of that might look like creating
- [00:33:20.940]an ornament for a loved one.
- [00:33:22.530]A child might create an ornament for a loved one
- [00:33:24.540]that they're missing and they can hang it on the tree
- [00:33:26.425]or the Collective for Hope,
- [00:33:28.650]where I went through my training
- [00:33:30.330]to become a peer support facilitator.
- [00:33:32.100]They do a really incredible event at this time
- [00:33:34.920]of the year called Tinsels and Tears.
- [00:33:36.720]And everyone brings a special memory of their loved one
- [00:33:40.410]and they share those stories during that time.
- [00:33:43.981]So that's something you could do at your own family events.
- [00:33:46.860]You could bring up a special memory
- [00:33:48.600]and share those special memories.
- [00:33:50.010]Because sometimes we want to talk about that person,
- [00:33:53.640]well we want to talk about that loss.
- [00:33:55.918]And sometimes people just don't know that.
- [00:33:58.260]They may not know how to bring that up
- [00:34:00.240]or they may not know how to approach it.
- [00:34:02.130]Even though I loved sharing stories about one
- [00:34:06.060]of my moms and her cooking
- [00:34:07.588]and she had this little sign that said like,
- [00:34:10.260]only cowards cook on high.
- [00:34:12.300]Like it's my favorite.
- [00:34:13.601]No, only cowards cook on low. Right?
- [00:34:18.000]Like it just, I think about
- [00:34:19.560]that all the time when I'm cooking
- [00:34:20.670]and I'm cooking like on medium,
- [00:34:21.900]I'm like, great, I'm a coward.
- [00:34:23.040]I'm not on high you know.
- [00:34:25.680]It's like one of my favorite things
- [00:34:27.240]to share about her because everything
- [00:34:29.070]of course was like always delicious tasting,
- [00:34:31.380]but there was always one dish that was burnt.
- [00:34:33.390]Like, you know, like maybe
- [00:34:35.580]that one should have been cooked on low there.
- [00:34:39.060]So when we think about children, you know,
- [00:34:40.703]they're having different rituals.
- [00:34:42.450]Or maybe one time someone told me that they used to go
- [00:34:45.659]and watch the lights.
- [00:34:47.760]And so one of the things
- [00:34:49.350]that they do is they bring a symbolic little
- [00:34:51.750]battery operated light.
- [00:34:53.040]So when the lights turn on,
- [00:34:54.510]they click the little battery operated candlelight.
- [00:34:57.030]And it's like that person's there with them.
- [00:34:59.130]So whatever is meaning making to you is okay.
- [00:35:02.490]It's also okay to say, I don't wanna do anything.
- [00:35:04.530]You might not be in a space.
- [00:35:05.820]So I think about a couple years ago,
- [00:35:08.190]I was experiencing a really difficult loss of a relationship
- [00:35:12.090]and I thought, I just need to get through this dinner.
- [00:35:14.820]If I can just get on the other side
- [00:35:16.560]of this dinner, I'm gonna be all right.
- [00:35:18.720]There was such a sense of loss
- [00:35:21.485]because there's those around the table
- [00:35:23.610]and they're wanting to have fun
- [00:35:25.020]and they're, you know, reading all these jokes
- [00:35:27.150]and I'm just sitting there thinking, "I've got 30 more
- [00:35:29.760]minutes, I just need to get through the next 30 minutes."
- [00:35:32.880]So it's okay to have rituals and meaning making
- [00:35:36.750]and all of those things.
- [00:35:37.830]And there's also space though, if you're not there yet.
- [00:35:41.250]That's okay too.
- [00:35:42.180]Yeah just some ideas that the listeners can take
- [00:35:45.360]and tailor to what makes sense for them.
- [00:35:47.850]Yeah 'cause what you don't wanna have is
- [00:35:49.320]unresolved grief, right?
- [00:35:50.580]Ooh, what's that?
- [00:35:51.480]So unresolved grief is grief that has not
- [00:35:53.790]yet been resolved, right?
- [00:35:55.500]So you haven't been able
- [00:35:56.736]to maybe necessarily process it
- [00:35:59.010]or there's still a significant impact that
- [00:36:02.700]that's having on your physical mental wellbeing.
- [00:36:05.910]And so the challenge then,
- [00:36:08.670]or the negative impact
- [00:36:09.900]that can happen is then your own wellbeing
- [00:36:12.660]is impacted negatively.
- [00:36:14.430]So you might find that, you know,
- [00:36:16.410]you are having difficulty in sleeping,
- [00:36:18.900]but then it becomes, I'm having difficulty in sleeping
- [00:36:21.630]and I'm having challenges then being able
- [00:36:23.940]to work the next day.
- [00:36:25.110]Or I find that I'm not eating
- [00:36:26.700]and then it turns into I'm not eating consistently.
- [00:36:30.060]So it's again, this idea of helping to process that grief.
- [00:36:34.860]You'll always probably feel it for the rest of your life.
- [00:36:37.620]And there's, you know, some typical periods in which
- [00:36:40.050]we experience grief over a timeline
- [00:36:42.570]and then we find, you know, that we can cope
- [00:36:44.610]with it a little bit better each day.
- [00:36:46.320]But when it's unresolved, when we don't have
- [00:36:48.480]that opportunity, then that's when it can
- [00:36:50.220]become unresolved grief.
- [00:36:51.450]And that's where then complications can happen, including
- [00:36:54.360]negatively impacting your wellbeing.
- [00:36:56.250]And that's where I encourage individuals
- [00:36:58.200]to seek the appropriate professional help and you know,
- [00:37:01.680]and not to hesitate to seek
- [00:37:03.480]that appropriate professional help, whether it's
- [00:37:05.250]for yourself or for your child.
- [00:37:06.510]And we can provide some links there at the end
- [00:37:08.700]of the episode.
- [00:37:10.354]And would happen if you find
- [00:37:11.670]that your grief is unresolved
- [00:37:13.200]or you really are having a hard time coping,
- [00:37:16.560]what are some ways then that you can get
- [00:37:18.840]that appropriate professional help?
- [00:37:20.430]So we've already talked about what can happen
- [00:37:22.800]during the holidays with grief and loss
- [00:37:25.290]'cause we talked about some of the secondary losses
- [00:37:27.480]that can come up during the holidays.
- [00:37:29.220]Was there anything additional that you wanted to add on to
- [00:37:31.800]that conversation about how the holidays can interact
- [00:37:35.430]with grief and loss in a unique way?
- [00:37:37.230]No, I just think an example of someone
- [00:37:38.820]who does it really well is my church every year
- [00:37:41.220]does a blue Christmas service.
- [00:37:43.620]And I just think what an appropriate
- [00:37:46.448]and intentional way during a service
- [00:37:49.650]because meaning making can also include important spiritual
- [00:37:53.310]and cultural making, meaning rituals.
- [00:37:55.290]And so I just think that that, you know, during
- [00:37:57.596]that service we like mint name memories
- [00:38:00.690]or if we're struggling and I just think
- [00:38:02.790]it's such a thoughtful way to create a space
- [00:38:05.010]to kind of honor that not everything might be sparkly
- [00:38:08.100]and shiny and bright.
- [00:38:10.140]Because for some though,
- [00:38:11.370]sharing earlier might be the first year without a loved one.
- [00:38:13.860]Or there might be strained relationships
- [00:38:15.900]or just the weight, the weight of wanting
- [00:38:18.360]to make everything right.
- [00:38:20.204]That can be there too for those
- [00:38:22.110]who maybe are taking over for the holiday.
- [00:38:24.600]Just wanna get it perfect to honor that person.
- [00:38:26.820]And that itself is a weight.
- [00:38:28.890]So if we are experiencing grief
- [00:38:31.230]and loss at the same time as a child,
- [00:38:33.510]how can we support our own grief as well as a child's?
- [00:38:37.950]So one, it's okay to know as a caregiver,
- [00:38:41.940]and I just am broadly defining caregiver, right,
- [00:38:44.310]for anyone who is, you know, providing care for a child,
- [00:38:47.910]some of our early childhood educators are going through
- [00:38:50.460]that experience too, where they might have been very close
- [00:38:53.220]with the family and now they're missing that person.
- [00:38:56.220]So what we do want to do though is to create,
- [00:38:58.710]if we're having our own grief and loss, right,
- [00:39:00.540]we have to make sure that we support
- [00:39:02.640]ourselves during that process.
- [00:39:04.140]And that could be connecting with friends.
- [00:39:06.690]We talked a little bit more about seeking, you know,
- [00:39:08.423]appropriate professional help if that's a need.
- [00:39:10.590]But in general it can be an opportunity at the holidays
- [00:39:14.940]to be more connected with children.
- [00:39:17.100]A way that you can help your own child
- [00:39:19.530]or to help children in your life
- [00:39:20.970]and to help yourself is to just kind of talk about
- [00:39:24.720]what you're experiencing and to name it.
- [00:39:27.180]I think we did that with Bunny earlier
- [00:39:28.633]and it was like saying, I'm sad too Bunny's missing,
- [00:39:32.043]I'm sad Bunny's lost.
- [00:39:34.020]And that can help both children
- [00:39:35.580]and caregivers stay connected to those that they've lost.
- [00:39:39.120]And looking at that meaning making peace.
- [00:39:41.310]And so that's how we can really kind
- [00:39:42.630]of help children during that time.
- [00:39:43.890]But then also to help ourselves.
- [00:39:45.900]Where might be some resources that we can go to for grief
- [00:39:50.490]and loss in Nebraska or maybe even online on the internet.
- [00:39:53.880]I spoke a little already about Sesame Workshop.
- [00:39:56.429]So for young children, especially birth to age eight,
- [00:39:59.820]I always recommend Sesame Workshop.
- [00:40:01.590]They're a great organization 'cause it's Sesame Street,
- [00:40:04.080]but their mission, right to help children everywhere
- [00:40:06.669]grow smarter, stronger, and kinder.
- [00:40:08.700]Especially if you're looking for more specific ideas on
- [00:40:11.790]how do I cope with my own emotions and help children,
- [00:40:15.570]I would look at that resource.
- [00:40:17.070]Another Nebraska specific resource
- [00:40:19.950]is the Collective for Hope.
- [00:40:21.300]They're a great collective
- [00:40:22.950]of grief supports everything from, you know, pregnancy
- [00:40:25.991]and child loss to adult coping, peer support groups.
- [00:40:30.270]And they tackle a variety of different topics
- [00:40:32.430]because they're trying to really normalize
- [00:40:34.080]that grief can happen in a lot of different ways.
- [00:40:36.330]And then the Kim Foundation is another excellent Nebraska
- [00:40:40.410]resource that you can look at
- [00:40:41.910]that has some helpful resources.
- [00:40:44.250]Another group called Speaking of Grief
- [00:40:46.290]or Speaking Grief, I think
- [00:40:47.700]that has some different resources on their website too,
- [00:40:51.450]about normalizing how to approach grief
- [00:40:53.940]and meaning making during the holidays.
- [00:40:55.680]Great, thanks for sharing that information
- [00:40:57.600]and resources with our audiences.
- [00:40:59.550]I definitely recommend checking those out
- [00:41:01.530]and doing some more reading on those resources.
- [00:41:04.740]There are a couple other resources I wanted to highlight
- [00:41:07.500]that are available to our listeners.
- [00:41:09.450]One of them is Nebraska Extension's Ambiguous Loss website,
- [00:41:13.680]which you can find linked in our show notes below.
- [00:41:16.680]And also the Nebraska Rural Response Hotline,
- [00:41:19.350]which you can dial at 800-464-0258.
- [00:41:23.598]Again, that will be listed in our show notes as well.
- [00:41:26.460]Unfortunately, this is about all the time
- [00:41:28.470]that we have scheduled for this episode.
- [00:41:30.330]I know that Linda and I could keep talking on this
- [00:41:32.580]topic for a long time.
- [00:41:33.840]There's a lot to be explored
- [00:41:35.220]and we might explore this in another podcast
- [00:41:37.470]episode in the future.
- [00:41:38.940]So listeners, if you have some questions about grief,
- [00:41:42.450]grieving, loss, how to support children through grief
- [00:41:46.230]and loss, please feel free to submit that
- [00:41:48.120]to our team's email at early childhood@unl.edu,
- [00:41:52.527]and we can explore that in a future episode.
- [00:41:55.080]But for right now, I just wanted to thank Linda so much
- [00:41:57.097]for the time that she spent with me today
- [00:41:59.880]and also her expertise on this topic.
- [00:42:02.160]So thank you very much for joining us, Linda,
- [00:42:04.230]and being on the podcast today.
- [00:42:05.910]You're so welcome. Thanks for having me.
- [00:42:07.800]Yeah, thanks so much, Linda.
- [00:42:09.270]In this episode we talked about losing
- [00:42:11.910]a stuffed animal as a child.
- [00:42:13.590]And in an attempt to end the episode on a light note,
- [00:42:17.040]we're gonna have some Nebraska youngsters share
- [00:42:19.200]about the stuffies that they currently have right now.
- [00:42:22.410]Listen to hear their stories.
- [00:42:24.660]Are you gonna say something about snakes?
- [00:42:26.760]Yeah.
- [00:42:27.593]You like snakes? What do you like about snakes?
- [00:42:30.510]Do you like the way they look?
- [00:42:32.413]The most I like is the rattlesnake.
- [00:42:34.350]Yeah, me too.
- [00:42:35.340]I have a rattlesnake stuffy,
- [00:42:38.359]and I have a python stuffy.
- [00:42:39.970]And I also like snakes, but I don't like ones
- [00:42:45.002]that I have seen in real life,
- [00:42:47.010]but my brother has a real stuffy that is a snake
- [00:42:52.170]and it's scaly and we can move the scales around.
- [00:42:57.780]If we push it this way, it goes black.
- [00:43:00.690]But if we push it that way, it turns all colors.
- [00:43:05.160]In my snake stuffy, when I swipe backwards,
- [00:43:09.750]it turns like rainbow color
- [00:43:12.630]and when I swipe forwards, it turns black.
- [00:43:15.720]Sometimes I sleep with it all the time,
- [00:43:18.990]but sometimes I didn't sleep with it
- [00:43:21.732]'cause it was in the water and my mom
- [00:43:24.810]and dad couldn't grab it.
- [00:43:26.961](upbeat music)
- [00:43:28.650]This has been an episode of The Good Life in Early Life,
- [00:43:32.640]A Nebraska Extension Early Childhood Production
- [00:43:35.130]with your host Emily Manning.
- [00:43:36.750]For more information on early childhood,
- [00:43:38.730]check out our website at child.unl.edu.
- [00:43:41.970]If you like the show, subscribe
- [00:43:43.560]and tell your friends to listen.
- [00:43:44.850]The show production team is Emily Manning,
- [00:43:46.728]Dr. Holly Hutton, Ingrid Lindal, Erin Campbell,
- [00:43:50.880]Linda Reddish, Kim Wellsant, Katie Kraus, and LaDonna Worth.
- [00:43:54.630]See you next time and thanks for listening.
- [00:43:56.517](upbeat music)
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