Not That Kind of Doctor - Diversity Statement

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11/14/2023 Added

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Diversity Statement - Ph.D. discussions with Nicholas Husbye and Guy Trainin. www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor and https://mediahub.unl.edu/channels/42980

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[00:00:00.133](exciting music)
[00:00:09.900]What are we talking about, diversity statements?
[00:00:12.608]Diversity statements.
[00:00:15.940]Yes.
[00:00:17.040]Diversity statements, yeah, so...
[00:00:25.110]How are you doing?
[00:00:27.687]You know, upright and not crying?
[00:00:30.049](laughs) That is always good.
[00:00:32.190]This point of the semester, we're shooting
[00:00:34.590]in the beginning of November, so this is the time
[00:00:37.470]where the semester starts getting heavy.
[00:00:39.900]I mean, it's not really the beginning of November anymore.
[00:00:42.090]It's November 8th
[00:00:43.470]when we're recording this. That is still in the-
[00:00:44.490]So like, we're past the first full week.
[00:00:47.130]Like we are in the mid. That is true.
[00:00:48.120]We are mid-November.
[00:00:50.010]We are in the, you know,
[00:00:53.970]we're out of the formative days of November.
[00:00:56.760]Okay.
[00:00:57.630]Right, but we're gearing up,
[00:01:00.030]we're gearing up for that push to the end of the semester.
[00:01:05.038]Yeah.
[00:01:05.871]And yeah, it's just been one thing after another
[00:01:10.860]after another, which I know you can also...
[00:01:14.670]Yes, it has been.
[00:01:17.160]It has been, it's been a thing, it's been a thing.
[00:01:19.230]Yes, it has, and there are lots
[00:01:21.780]of searches happening right now.
[00:01:23.490]How are your letters of recommendation going?
[00:01:26.850]Almost done with letters of recommendation.
[00:01:29.100]I had quite a few, in this cycle, to write for people
[00:01:34.440]that have just graduated, that are working on their files
[00:01:37.590]and looking for the next job.
[00:01:39.210]And a few that have actually been working in one place
[00:01:41.760]and are looking for the next jump.
[00:01:44.130]And so it's been really interesting to navigate.
[00:01:46.620]There are quite a few jobs out there.
[00:01:48.480]There are quite a few jobs.
[00:01:49.680]And I'm really interested in, there was a piece
[00:01:53.760]in The Chronicle two weeks ago maybe,
[00:01:56.490]about how like the, this idea of a tenured professor staying
[00:02:04.530]in one place is not, is mirroring
[00:02:06.990]what we're seeing elsewhere.
[00:02:08.640]Yeah. In the job force.
[00:02:09.570]Like there's a lot of jumping, there's a lot of moving.
[00:02:12.750]You don't get that deep-rooted position very much anymore,
[00:02:19.770]which was interesting to think about
[00:02:24.210]because if I think about my own career trajectory,
[00:02:26.790]I'm very much aligned with that, right, like what?
[00:02:29.070]And I'm not, so I'm a generation...
[00:02:31.590]You're anomaly.
[00:02:33.026]I am older and have been around a little bit older,
[00:02:38.250]a little bit more time in academia.
[00:02:41.850]And I chose to stay in one place, first of all,
[00:02:44.670]because I was happy with that place, so that helps.
[00:02:49.440]And also because the way I thought about this,
[00:02:54.330]especially in the kind of research that I've done early
[00:02:57.180]in my career, but even beyond that,
[00:03:00.390]is thinking about those networks that you create
[00:03:04.590]to support your research.
[00:03:05.880]So if you want to go and collect data in a school district
[00:03:09.330]or create, bring people together to create a large grant,
[00:03:14.730]for example, right now working on teacher shortages.
[00:03:17.490]So all of these connections pay back to you.
[00:03:21.900]So staying in one place really benefited that notion.
[00:03:27.120]So that's what I see going for staying in a place.
[00:03:30.690]But there are certain costs to staying in a place,
[00:03:33.690]and there might be opportunities somewhere else
[00:03:36.300]there might be something that is a better fit for you.
[00:03:39.543]That it's definitely an opportunity to upgrade
[00:03:42.930]from one kind of an institution to another
[00:03:46.717]or working with a different leadership
[00:03:49.950]or even getting more money.
[00:03:51.570]I love how you're like, "It's like upgrading
[00:03:53.880]from a Coach bag to a Louis Vuitton."
[00:03:57.060]Yes, exactly. Delightful.
[00:03:59.820]Exactly, or maybe not, or maybe,
[00:04:02.370]as one scholar that once hosted here
[00:04:07.800]that has been to about seven institutions,
[00:04:10.830]said, "Eventually, it's kind of all the same."
[00:04:14.003]I mean- The same kind of people,
[00:04:15.780]the same kind of interaction, your work is your work.
[00:04:19.440]So there's also a cost to every time you move,
[00:04:23.130]you gotta reestablish, you gotta find the grocery store
[00:04:25.860]and everything.
[00:04:26.693]So there are costs to this too.
[00:04:28.140]Oh yeah, no, totally.
[00:04:29.280]And I think that that idea of there's no,
[00:04:35.580]every place is going to have its stuff.
[00:04:38.160]Yes.
[00:04:39.374]Every place is going to be somewhat similar.
[00:04:41.130]Like there's more commonalities across institutions
[00:04:44.220]than there are differences.
[00:04:45.960]And that was something that, you know,
[00:04:49.020]took me a little while to figure out, you know,
[00:04:51.780]but, ooh, what is this, what is this?
[00:04:54.480]This is, we gotta say, this is...
[00:04:57.870]Oh yes, I keep forgetting.
[00:04:59.790]This is "Not That Kind of Doctor."
[00:05:02.520]This is the delightful Guy Trainin.
[00:05:06.090]This is Nick Husbye.
[00:05:08.010]And we're from the University of Nebraska at Lincoln.
[00:05:11.400]And today, we're talking about,
[00:05:13.352]to segue into what we're talking about, actually,
[00:05:16.680]we're revisiting the work that we've done
[00:05:20.250]around job market stuff,
[00:05:22.710]thinking about how to find the positions, writing a letter.
[00:05:26.880]One of the things that I'm noticing,
[00:05:29.490]this particular job season is, almost every single posting
[00:05:33.600]that I've looked at in order to support other people
[00:05:38.370]in their job search has been asking
[00:05:40.620]for a diversity statement.
[00:05:42.330]Yeah.
[00:05:43.495]Or a statement on, a couple of them frame it
[00:05:45.540]as a social justice statement, a couple have framed it
[00:05:48.540]as an equity statement, and this is somewhat
[00:05:53.280]of a new piece of that application packet.
[00:05:57.990]And so I thought it would be nice to kind of unpack that
[00:06:02.790]and think about how might one craft
[00:06:08.250]an impactful equity/diversity/social justice,
[00:06:15.420]whatever they're calling it, statement that deals with,
[00:06:20.250]you know, the kind of institutional mission
[00:06:23.220]of where they're applying to.
[00:06:24.840]And I think that, as we thought about this topic,
[00:06:29.670]it's also about how can you use this opportunity
[00:06:33.630]to have a voice in that search process
[00:06:36.840]to actually distinguish yourself and differentiate yourself
[00:06:40.830]because, in general,
[00:06:43.770]everybody is going to write something positive, involved,
[00:06:49.770]and try to find out what is it that they've done
[00:06:53.220]that will be helpful to illustrate the point.
[00:06:56.160]But it is an opportunity
[00:06:57.780]to do something a little bit different
[00:06:59.670]to highlight the work you've done,
[00:07:01.710]the things that you're thinking about,
[00:07:03.780]and how you would position them.
[00:07:06.030]And in search committees I've been on,
[00:07:09.210]there has been significant differences
[00:07:12.450]between candidates,
[00:07:13.980]and we've had opportunities where this is the point
[00:07:18.120]where a candidate became the second choice
[00:07:20.670]instead of the first choice, so it really does matter.
[00:07:23.370]It's not just a pro forma thing, it really does matter,
[00:07:26.910]and it's being read very seriously
[00:07:29.370]and considered very seriously,
[00:07:31.020]so it's something to attend to.
[00:07:32.970]So I would love to know your insights
[00:07:34.800]around like the rise of thinking about equity, access,
[00:07:42.330]social justice at an institutional level
[00:07:45.510]because this kind of came about as I was in the middle
[00:07:49.170]of my own institution-hopping in terms of job-seeking.
[00:07:54.360]And since you've been here at Nebraska.
[00:07:57.960]Yes.
[00:07:59.100]One of the affordances of that
[00:08:00.960]is you have this historical, like institutional knowledge.
[00:08:05.820]How has, 'cause I'm certain that the story of UNL
[00:08:10.770]is the story of other places.
[00:08:13.410]How are you seeing diversity becoming an element
[00:08:19.680]that institutions and departments care about?
[00:08:23.910]And where's that coming from?
[00:08:25.560]What's kind of the background?
[00:08:28.170]At least in my experience, I mean, diversity and inclusion
[00:08:31.950]was always a component of the work we've done,
[00:08:34.830]definitely in schools of education, but in general,
[00:08:37.410]it was a component but it wasn't featured as a main event.
[00:08:41.100]And institutionally, where we saw the most effort
[00:08:44.700]around that was actually in recruiting.
[00:08:46.590]So for very many years,
[00:08:48.930]recruiting has been where we were trying to address issues
[00:08:52.650]of diversity and opportunity and support,
[00:08:56.250]scholarships and helping applications,
[00:08:58.770]and trying to make sure that there are opportunities
[00:09:00.930]to visit and to see what can happen at an institution
[00:09:06.330]that is a predominantly white institution like ours.
[00:09:09.930]And that has been the focus for a very long time.
[00:09:15.000]So it happened kind of in the pre,
[00:09:17.040]and we left students on their own.
[00:09:18.900]And I think that throughout the early 2000,
[00:09:21.660]there was this growing understanding
[00:09:23.490]that we cannot leave students,
[00:09:27.210]who come into an institution, on their own.
[00:09:30.240]Supports need to happen along the way
[00:09:31.950]to make sure they are successful
[00:09:33.270]because if you bring students, we want them to be successful
[00:09:35.970]regardless of their background.
[00:09:37.650]And different students have different needs,
[00:09:40.530]definitely financial, but supports,
[00:09:42.960]having mentors, having opportunities
[00:09:44.940]to learn how to navigate an institution.
[00:09:47.280]It's always difficult
[00:09:48.810]when it's a predominantly white institution,
[00:09:51.630]and you are not one of those students.
[00:09:53.580]So there was this growing understanding,
[00:09:56.580]and then, at least for us, in the mid-2010s,
[00:10:02.877]so around 2015, 2016, there was a shift
[00:10:06.461]to taking a lot more ownership all the way from the top.
[00:10:11.430]So from the chancellor's level or the president's level
[00:10:14.220]all the way down to actually do an audit and then hire,
[00:10:19.170]at a different level, diversity officers,
[00:10:21.960]and we're seeing them across universities.
[00:10:23.730]It's one of the waves of jobs that got elevated
[00:10:27.360]to associate chancellor or the equivalent
[00:10:29.610]in different institutions.
[00:10:31.230]So it was a sign that it's taken more seriously.
[00:10:33.900]And then faculty working inside departments started pushing
[00:10:38.070]for more emphasis on diversity.
[00:10:41.550]And I think the moment, the George Floyd murder,
[00:10:45.000]and everything around that, really coalesced
[00:10:47.880]and forced anybody who did not have a statement by then,
[00:10:52.260]started issuing a statement about inclusion, diversity,
[00:10:56.280]equity, and to bring it into the main discussion.
[00:11:00.210]And we saw that, for example, I'm a member of organization
[00:11:04.500]that deals with how do we build schools?
[00:11:07.980]And so they are not, their emphasis
[00:11:11.280]on diversity and equity came very late.
[00:11:17.370]But that's a central piece even for institutions
[00:11:20.370]that looks at how do we create schools that are more open
[00:11:24.150]to diversity, provide more equity, and are more inclusive.
[00:11:28.530]So we saw that throughout.
[00:11:30.540]And then just before the pandemic and during the pandemic,
[00:11:34.110]when there was a rise in awareness,
[00:11:39.780]a rise in just an articulation
[00:11:43.110]of what has always been out there.
[00:11:45.270]This is not new in any way, but there was a level
[00:11:48.390]of commitment that we haven't seen before.
[00:11:50.640]And every, when you have a statement by the department,
[00:11:54.510]this is part of our belief system now, it made sense
[00:11:57.960]to start asking candidates, how do they fit in within that.
[00:12:03.090]Now I think it actually started because, early on,
[00:12:07.110]in the 2019, 2020 hiring cycles,
[00:12:13.500]some institutions started putting that emphasis
[00:12:15.840]and some institutions have not.
[00:12:18.090]And what I remember seeing is the very stark realities
[00:12:22.320]where some candidates applying to a job were highly aware
[00:12:25.350]and highly attuned and others were not.
[00:12:28.080]So it was very clear that it was discussed with some,
[00:12:30.810]but not with others.
[00:12:32.340]And it created real differences in the hiring process.
[00:12:36.120]I think, at this point, most institutions that we work with,
[00:12:39.810]at least, that I've seen our students apply to,
[00:12:42.750]have a component of that.
[00:12:45.390]And so it is a little bit different in the way
[00:12:48.600]that it is playing out right now then.
[00:12:52.350]And we're talking about four, five years ago.
[00:12:54.030]We're not talking a long time ago.
[00:12:56.700]Oh yeah, no, I mean it's-
[00:12:57.771]It was still rare.
[00:12:59.070]And now it's almost to the point
[00:13:01.530]where every single posting has asked
[00:13:03.840]for something connected to DEI or what have you.
[00:13:08.940]And I think it's important to notice,
[00:13:10.980]I was thinking about this, as you were talking,
[00:13:13.020]that the way that you come at this statement is going to,
[00:13:18.480]and we'll talk more about this in a minute,
[00:13:20.370]but who you are as a person, right?
[00:13:24.210]So I'm coming at this from a particular intersection
[00:13:27.720]of identity.
[00:13:28.560]You're coming at it from a particular intersection
[00:13:30.210]of identity.
[00:13:32.790]I think I can say we're both white, we're both male, right?
[00:13:36.510]So like, there's, and there's certain considerations
[00:13:40.020]that, you know, depending on what identity categories
[00:13:46.320]you're occupying, that the ways
[00:13:48.240]that you're going to focus on
[00:13:49.740]and take on this particular task.
[00:13:53.970]So, when we're thinking about, given all of that history,
[00:13:59.160]as we're thinking about the ways
[00:14:01.110]that this has kind of been ramping up
[00:14:03.300]and is kind of being centered, or possibly, you know,
[00:14:10.140]at least given some credence, some time, right?
[00:14:14.822]Your diversity statement, when you're thinking about this,
[00:14:17.100]you really wanna be thinking about how you foster equity,
[00:14:24.120]diversity, and oftentimes,
[00:14:28.230]the statements will talk about inclusion, right?
[00:14:30.730]Yeah. So what are your beliefs
[00:14:32.070]around that?
[00:14:33.319]What do you do around that?
[00:14:35.310]And I'm a big believer in being correct
[00:14:41.910]within my own politics.
[00:14:43.800]So if I were to be doing a diversity statement right now,
[00:14:47.520]I don't know that I could talk about inclusion.
[00:14:49.290]I don't know that I could talk about it in the way
[00:14:52.380]that I think some institutions want to talk about it
[00:14:55.650]because the thing that comes before inclusion
[00:14:59.460]for me is creating access
[00:15:02.790]and ensuring that environments are not toxic environments
[00:15:08.040]for individuals who occupy particular identities.
[00:15:14.340]And like, I can talk about inclusion all I want,
[00:15:19.290]but if once I bring folks into an environment,
[00:15:22.950]if it's not a hospitable environment,
[00:15:27.210]that's not really useful, you know?
[00:15:30.810]So I tend to, so when I'm talking about access and equity,
[00:15:37.350]just in general terms, I tend not to talk too much
[00:15:40.230]about inclusion, and I will often get questions
[00:15:42.570]about that, right?
[00:15:44.280]And so thinking about how you want to tackle that,
[00:15:49.860]like what do these things actually mean to you?
[00:15:53.610]This statement is an opportunity to not just do lip service,
[00:15:57.840]but really lay out where are your politics when it comes to,
[00:16:05.490]I tend to think about it in terms of access and equity.
[00:16:09.540]And if I focus in on access and equity,
[00:16:13.590]then that is going to create, I'm working to create spaces
[00:16:17.670]where, you know, diversity is going to hopefully happen
[00:16:22.980]because I'm working to create a more hospitable environment
[00:16:27.930]for a variety of different students.
[00:16:31.020]And what I'm hearing you say, and I don't know
[00:16:35.550]that I've fully thought about this,
[00:16:37.470]is that while we talk about our own beliefs
[00:16:44.040]in a statement like this, or we want to read
[00:16:46.650]about the candidate's beliefs,
[00:16:49.260]and then we think through what are the opportunities
[00:16:53.070]and where have we engaged in that kind of work
[00:16:57.000]or thought about it, but at the same time,
[00:17:00.750]we're admitting, if you are coming to a new institution,
[00:17:04.260]definitely if you're coming as an assistant professor,
[00:17:06.327]and you're just starting your journey, you have to recognize
[00:17:10.770]that you are not, you cannot change the whole system
[00:17:14.370]just because you showed up and you have good intentions.
[00:17:16.920]There's a system there, there's an environment there,
[00:17:19.770]there are things already happening.
[00:17:21.720]And so you, in a way, it's the do not overpromise
[00:17:26.550]and do not, especially for candidates of color,
[00:17:29.550]do not become the person who's sacrificing their career-
[00:17:35.730]Oh yeah.
[00:17:37.380]For trying to advance access and equity and inclusion
[00:17:41.550]because that's, we know that from research,
[00:17:44.520]that's a recipe for burnout and for frustration,
[00:17:48.660]and potentially even for not being successful in the job.
[00:17:51.570]So those are the points where you want to be careful
[00:17:54.600]not to illustrate yourself as somebody who's gonna come
[00:17:57.360]and change everything.
[00:17:58.680]You come and say, "This is who I am, this is what I believe,
[00:18:01.740]these are the things that I think I can contribute to,"
[00:18:05.010]and make sure it's measured.
[00:18:08.524]One place where I think it's important
[00:18:12.270]is to think about where does it fit in your research?
[00:18:14.550]And I know, for example, I grew up in a time
[00:18:16.710]where you can conduct research with fairly minimal thought
[00:18:20.880]to diversity and inclusion
[00:18:22.920]as you were thinking about your research.
[00:18:26.070]And that's something to be thoughtful about.
[00:18:27.840]It doesn't mean that you have had to make that the center
[00:18:30.870]of your research program,
[00:18:32.310]but you definitely have to take that into consideration.
[00:18:35.280]Who are you working with, for what goals?
[00:18:38.460]How are you differentiating or including,
[00:18:42.240]both in research teams and definitely in the participants
[00:18:45.390]that are part of your research,
[00:18:46.920]to make sure that you don't just replicate bias
[00:18:53.940]but actually are working
[00:18:55.290]against it. Whiten it up,
[00:18:56.190]like toothpaste. (Guy laughs)
[00:18:58.890]Right? And so,
[00:18:59.723]and there's a way to think through that.
[00:19:02.700]And sometimes, sometimes it's not part of the main drive
[00:19:08.490]of the way you teach or the way, definitely not the way,
[00:19:14.040]if you're doing basic research, for example.
[00:19:15.900]One of my professors in my graduate career was looking into,
[00:19:25.650]into working memory, and working memory,
[00:19:29.370]where that would come in was making sure that your,
[00:19:32.910]the people you were working with
[00:19:34.170]were from a diverse background to make sure
[00:19:37.320]that the results are applicable across groups.
[00:19:41.010]But beyond that, it's the same instruments
[00:19:44.490]doing very similar things.
[00:19:46.470]But you still have to be thoughtful about it.
[00:19:49.170]You still have to be ready to talk about how that intersects
[00:19:54.900]with diversity and inclusion,
[00:19:57.780]thinking about that kind of work, and that's not easy.
[00:20:01.770]If you're not ready and you get that question
[00:20:03.630]in the middle of a research presentation,
[00:20:05.850]that's probably not gonna be really useful.
[00:20:11.130]So thinking about it and articulating it
[00:20:14.040]in your statement would help the thinking process
[00:20:17.640]and making sure that, hey, you can have a vision
[00:20:20.910]of how you do that.
[00:20:23.250]And, of course, there are levels because there are people
[00:20:25.827]whose research is about diversity and inclusion.
[00:20:29.280]Obviously, they will have a lot more to say
[00:20:31.440]because they're at the heart of this.
[00:20:33.510]But even if you're working on reading, as I did early
[00:20:36.870]in my career, you still have to think
[00:20:39.780]about how that intersects, what insights do you have,
[00:20:43.290]and how did you make sure to be inclusive both to teachers,
[00:20:47.160]and in my case, students.
[00:20:49.050]Mm-hmm, well, and I think too, when you're,
[00:20:52.170]we've talked a lot about beliefs so far,
[00:20:54.990]and I think one of the things
[00:20:56.700]that really makes a high-quality statement stand out from a,
[00:21:02.130]okay, you believe some things is like, what can you do?
[00:21:06.150]Like what is the work, when you're thinking about values,
[00:21:11.340]and I feel like the next time I say this
[00:21:13.290]in a faculty meeting, someone's gonna throw an apple at me
[00:21:15.810]or something, a tomato at me, but like,
[00:21:18.840]when we're thinking about values,
[00:21:20.310]what happens in those values are verbs.
[00:21:22.410]Like how do we, again, live out our values?
[00:21:26.250]How does one live out their value
[00:21:28.975]and make that clear for others?
[00:21:34.590]So if I am dedicated and trying to live out my value
[00:21:43.543]of access and equity, what are things that I can point to
[00:21:48.300]that I have done that show that I am working
[00:21:52.170]to disrupt systems of oppression within the place
[00:21:57.330]in which I work, within the teaching that I do.
[00:22:01.290]Possibly not in my research,
[00:22:04.260]partially because there are other scholars
[00:22:08.190]who are doing that better than I ever could.
[00:22:12.840]And so I like, I kind of know my place.
[00:22:15.990]Yes.
[00:22:16.823]In the research.
[00:22:17.656]Absolutely.
[00:22:18.741]Right, so, but I think when you can look at,
[00:22:22.890]okay, you believe this, great, right?
[00:22:27.150]But it's not-
[00:22:27.983]Show it to me, yeah.
[00:22:28.816]It's not Santa.
[00:22:29.790]Yeah.
[00:22:30.623]Show me what that looks like on the ground
[00:22:34.020]'cause we can believe all we want.
[00:22:36.750]This isn't Tinker Bell.
[00:22:37.710]If we clap, we're not gonna make this magically go away.
[00:22:41.730]And really, DEI work is not sexy work.
[00:22:45.555]It's understanding policy, it's creating new systems,
[00:22:49.980]it's disrupting old systems.
[00:22:51.600]So when you can think through and about how you've engaged
[00:22:57.990]in that work and provide those examples,
[00:23:02.880]that becomes really powerful
[00:23:05.160]because it's transcending beyond that.
[00:23:08.310]It's kind of like with undergrad teachers who are like,
[00:23:11.047]"I believe every child can learn."
[00:23:12.930]Okay, so what are you going to do about that?
[00:23:14.943]Yeah.
[00:23:15.776]What do you do when the child
[00:23:18.001]is not getting the instruction that you've provided?
[00:23:21.000]What's another way that you're coming at it?
[00:23:23.190]Yeah, and the advantage of the preparation
[00:23:28.260]to become an academic is that you do have opportunities,
[00:23:31.560]to explore that, to contribute
[00:23:33.780]and to be part of conversations.
[00:23:35.790]So, and it's very telling, if you have an academic career
[00:23:40.620]and you haven't participated in anything around DEI,
[00:23:43.320]but you say, "I have all of these beliefs,"
[00:23:45.570]obviously, there's a mismatch there.
[00:23:48.106]And there might have not have been opportunities,
[00:23:50.130]but right now, in most universities, most places I visit,
[00:23:54.688]or places I write letters for, current or past students,
[00:24:01.200]I can see that our students have had the opportunity
[00:24:04.920]to have had experiences.
[00:24:07.290]For example, we have Husker Dialogues,
[00:24:09.030]which is an opportunity to talk with incoming students
[00:24:12.030]somewhat about DEI issues, although not exclusively,
[00:24:16.424]which is an interesting development,
[00:24:18.810]but it's an opportunity.
[00:24:20.490]And there's a call, generally, to faculty
[00:24:22.950]and to graduate student to participate
[00:24:25.080]as the people leading that.
[00:24:27.270]It doesn't take much, it's a little bit of training,
[00:24:30.450]and then participation.
[00:24:32.040]At that night, you can participate once or twice,
[00:24:34.290]but this is an opportunity to leave some of your values
[00:24:37.230]and be willing to put yourself in a position
[00:24:39.210]where you are actually talking about these issues
[00:24:41.970]and trying to get the conversation going
[00:24:44.190]with very young people and freshmen in their third
[00:24:47.580]or fourth week at the university.
[00:24:49.860]So that's a great opportunity.
[00:24:51.270]And obviously, for me, it's what does it look like,
[00:24:57.810]for example, in your syllabus?
[00:24:59.250]So what have you done to the class you're teaching
[00:25:02.070]that you don't have full control over?
[00:25:03.720]Because it's a class that was designed by the institution
[00:25:07.410]for specific purposes,
[00:25:08.970]but what are the opportunities you took there
[00:25:11.730]to discuss issues, to provide a more inclusive environment
[00:25:17.550]to support the students that are around you?
[00:25:19.510]These are opportunities to show.
[00:25:22.500]And so you have to think about, that's the make it a verb.
[00:25:26.880]This is what I did.
[00:25:27.990]This is what I did, this is the impact,
[00:25:30.270]this is how it contributes to that overarching idea-
[00:25:33.450]Yes.
[00:25:34.283]Of diversity, equity, however you're framing it.
[00:25:37.710]And so let's shift into like what these statements normally
[00:25:42.330]are comprised of 'cause normally, there's some level
[00:25:45.300]of background information, right?
[00:25:47.460]There's some level of what are your educational experiences
[00:25:51.720]with diversity, with equity, with access,
[00:25:55.200]those professional experiences,
[00:25:57.300]and then what exactly are your commitments, right?
[00:25:59.940]Like laying those four things out
[00:26:03.900]in your diversity statement is going to probably match up
[00:26:09.690]with what the institution is asking, right?
[00:26:14.520]And I think, personally, one of the powerful tools
[00:26:20.040]that you can use is storytelling within that statement-
[00:26:24.467]Yeah, definitely. To kind of bring to light
[00:26:29.460]how you came to do what you do while also being thoughtful
[00:26:35.250]about those intersections that you yourself occupy, right?
[00:26:39.660]And how to, when to foreground yourself,
[00:26:42.270]when to background yourself, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:26:45.390]So like, how we convey, and again,
[00:26:51.180]it's gonna depend on who you are,
[00:26:54.630]the way that you come at this, right?
[00:26:56.460]Like I do, when I talk a lot about equity and access,
[00:27:02.850]I tend to be a background person, right?
[00:27:05.100]Like, because of the particular privileges
[00:27:08.070]that I bring to the table.
[00:27:10.320]Like I have better access to systems
[00:27:13.331]and being able to change those systems
[00:27:15.990]than someone else might because of my maleness,
[00:27:19.290]my whiteness, because unless I open my mouth
[00:27:22.950]or start moving my hands, I normally pass
[00:27:24.810]for straight, right? Yeah.
[00:27:25.920]So like that provides me particular kinds of access
[00:27:28.980]that I can exploit.
[00:27:30.570]Yeah.
[00:27:31.768]To an extent, to engage in DEI work.
[00:27:33.600]And that's the in, right?
[00:27:35.490]And that's where the verb comes in.
[00:27:37.140]That's my verb but I'm careful to,
[00:27:40.230]like I am backgrounded, right?
[00:27:43.230]Like I tend to think about it
[00:27:47.700]as when everything was happening in Ferguson
[00:27:51.600]around Michael Brown, like that was in our backyard,
[00:27:54.480]and I handed out water.
[00:27:57.060]I was not marching.
[00:27:57.893]I made sure marchers had water.
[00:27:59.460]Like that's my role, know my place.
[00:28:01.830]Yeah.
[00:28:02.959]Right, and that's kind of what I want to convey
[00:28:11.269]as I'm writing my statements is,
[00:28:14.760]look, this is how I personally operationalize this,
[00:28:18.330]but it's gonna be different depending on who you are.
[00:28:20.130]Yeah, and I always think about, personally,
[00:28:24.660]because I moved to this country,
[00:28:26.280]but I think about our graduate students
[00:28:28.080]who come from other countries, and they're often identified
[00:28:32.130]as a minoritized group because that's what you do
[00:28:36.750]when you come.
[00:28:37.800]You were often, not always, but often,
[00:28:41.070]you were part of a majority group.
[00:28:42.990]So you had that experience of privilege
[00:28:45.120]in your country of origin.
[00:28:46.410]I definitely did.
[00:28:47.670]But most of our Chinese students, for example, have as well.
[00:28:52.170]So that's your experience, and suddenly, you come here,
[00:28:55.380]and you become some kind of a minority,
[00:28:57.750]whether you're an English language learner
[00:28:59.520]or you're international or you're an immigrant
[00:29:02.413]and you have a specific racial identity on top of that,
[00:29:08.010]that it feels really strange when you move
[00:29:10.140]because you are not aware of that
[00:29:11.640]because the American context plays
[00:29:13.560]with all of that rather significantly.
[00:29:16.020]So one of the things that I've seen people do,
[00:29:19.230]and I recommend doing, is talk about your own journey
[00:29:21.870]with that because when you come from Israel
[00:29:24.750]or from China to the United States,
[00:29:26.692]all of those layers of social justice, racial,
[00:29:32.160]the racial history of the United States and everything,
[00:29:34.590]is not clear to you.
[00:29:35.700]Unless you were a student of history,
[00:29:37.320]you have maybe glimpses of things,
[00:29:39.930]but there's no way to discern the depth of that.
[00:29:42.930]So talking about the journey you make along the way
[00:29:46.320]to start understanding the American reality
[00:29:48.660]and how much you still have to learn is part of that,
[00:29:51.510]again, that positioning.
[00:29:53.130]You're not coming as the all-knowing,
[00:29:54.780]I understand all of this, I've figured this all out.
[00:29:57.240]I don't think anybody has.
[00:29:58.890]But, definitely, when you're coming from another country
[00:30:01.650]and you've been in this country four or five years,
[00:30:03.780]give or take, you still have a lot to learn.
[00:30:06.600]And you can say that.
[00:30:08.250]And that's important in that positioning
[00:30:10.860]that the advantage you have, I think, is that you really,
[00:30:14.370]you have gone through a process at the same time
[00:30:16.830]of being minoritized.
[00:30:18.420]So you have experienced what it is to be,
[00:30:21.840]to have all of the privileges,
[00:30:23.460]and now some of them are suddenly gone.
[00:30:25.770]And suddenly you find yourself in a minority situation
[00:30:29.730]where, for example, it's hard for you to rent an apartment
[00:30:33.060]or all of these things that are illegal but still happen
[00:30:37.736]and all of these prejudices that come with this.
[00:30:40.560]So you have an experience from both sides,
[00:30:43.290]which gives you a different window,
[00:30:45.120]I think, into all of this.
[00:30:46.710]So there's an opportunity to do that
[00:30:48.600]without trying to put on an understanding
[00:30:51.210]you don't necessarily have yet,
[00:30:52.800]but you have to be aware of it.
[00:30:54.450]You cannot, at this point, at least,
[00:30:56.580]ask to be part of an American institution,
[00:30:59.820]definitely not in education, and not be aware of issues
[00:31:04.020]of DEI and how they intersect with everything we do.
[00:31:07.860]And I think, for certain folks, when they're thinking
[00:31:14.250]about what they're going to self-disclose, right?
[00:31:16.900]'Cause if we're talking about a personal narrative,
[00:31:18.630]one of the things that is a tension
[00:31:20.700]is when to self-disclose, if you identify
[00:31:24.900]with a particular group or not,
[00:31:29.640]is kind of a really personal decision.
[00:31:32.370]And you want to think through
[00:31:34.890]and about what's your level of comfort doing that?
[00:31:41.670]What's your level of perceived safety?
[00:31:44.790]There's no, people talk about safe spaces.
[00:31:48.600]I don't think that any particular space is 100% safe.
[00:31:51.720]Like there's degrees of safety,
[00:31:53.160]and you need to measure out how you perceive that, right?
[00:31:58.080]So like, if there might be times where I disclose,
[00:32:04.477]"Hey, I am a gay man living
[00:32:07.800]in a very hetero-centered world."
[00:32:11.010]Yes.
[00:32:12.130]Right, and that impacts some of how I think through
[00:32:16.050]and about access and equity.
[00:32:19.320]However, I can just as easily write a statement
[00:32:22.800]where I'm not disclosing that,
[00:32:24.120]depending on what I perceive as, I mean,
[00:32:30.690]the irony here is I don't want my diversity statement
[00:32:33.750]or my equity statement-
[00:32:34.583]To be just about that.
[00:32:36.306]To create bias. Yeah.
[00:32:37.196]Yeah, against me as a candidate as well,
[00:32:38.880]so like measuring that out is really specific.
[00:32:43.350]And a lot of how I judged that
[00:32:46.290]is by looking at what's the institutional work
[00:32:49.920]that the department's doing, that the college
[00:32:52.410]or school is doing, and that the university is doing.
[00:32:55.170]How are they living their own politics?
[00:32:57.180]And what risks-
[00:32:58.410]Which is really hard to discern,
[00:33:00.720]which is really hard to discern.
[00:33:02.340]It's really hard to discern.
[00:33:03.798]Because our main window into universities
[00:33:06.120]is the website, right?
[00:33:07.710]That's the one place we can go.
[00:33:09.180]But we don't know if they're living their values.
[00:33:12.180]We can see a value statement, which-
[00:33:14.671]Well, I mean-
[00:33:15.504]Maybe aspirational.
[00:33:17.100]You can kind of, I tend, when I look at a DEI statement
[00:33:23.220]for an institution or a department, you can kind of tell
[00:33:28.200]when it is, we're saying this because it's of the moment,
[00:33:32.550]and we feel like we have to versus we're saying this,
[00:33:38.400]and it's actually important, and it's guiding our actions
[00:33:41.610]'cause you're going to see that threaded throughout.
[00:33:44.430]Like if they're truly living their values,
[00:33:45.960]I'm gonna see it in multiple places.
[00:33:47.490]Yeah, okay.
[00:33:48.520]Gonna see it in multiple places, and if I don't,
[00:33:50.700]that's an indicator to me of how serious they are
[00:33:55.620]about this or not.
[00:33:57.540]And I want to also be clear about recognizing
[00:34:01.320]that, regardless of where you are, equity work is hard.
[00:34:05.640]Yeah.
[00:34:06.473]Equity work is hard, so I would also not expect
[00:34:10.050]to see a plethora of evidence, but I would expect
[00:34:16.110]to see some if, truly, these institutions
[00:34:20.070]are living those values versus it's just lip service.
[00:34:26.460]Yeah, and just to add to that,
[00:34:29.406]some things you can't hide.
[00:34:31.320]You can't hide my accent, right?
[00:34:33.930]You have an accent?
[00:34:35.121]So I've been told.
[00:34:37.470]Yeah.
[00:34:38.303]You've been habituated, that's the trick.
[00:34:41.160]Anyway, you can't hide that.
[00:34:42.870]You can't hide- I also have an accent, Guy.
[00:34:44.640]Yes, you do.
[00:34:45.660]I do, Upper Midwest.
[00:34:47.010]Yeah.
[00:34:47.843]Bag, show me your bag.
[00:34:50.552](Guy laughs)
[00:34:52.050]I get asked for that. We all, okay.
[00:34:52.883]We all have accent, but some are-
[00:34:56.145]You're still special.
[00:34:56.978]Some are, I feel special, thank you.
[00:35:00.300]But some of, so some of these things
[00:35:02.874]are going to be obvious.
[00:35:04.950]If you're coming from China, people are gonna be able
[00:35:07.860]to see that you came from China.
[00:35:10.020]And if you are Black, people will say that you're Black.
[00:35:14.040]So there are certain things you can't hide.
[00:35:16.320]You can't walk around, and I would say, at that point,
[00:35:19.620]lean into it as much as you feel comfortable
[00:35:21.990]without making it a source for bias, but on the other hand,
[00:35:25.170]it's gonna come out immediately.
[00:35:26.880]If you get through the first round,
[00:35:28.260]everybody's gonna be able to see you.
[00:35:29.700]Right.
[00:35:30.533]Because the next round is usually a Zoom interview.
[00:35:32.190]So you might as well put it out there.
[00:35:36.128]And the other thing is, for example, with disability
[00:35:39.810]or for English learners, if you need supports,
[00:35:46.050]make sure that you at least talk,
[00:35:48.600]so even if you don't disclose it in a DEI statement,
[00:35:51.090]please disclose it in the interview process
[00:35:54.000]if you get to that point, because you want to make sure
[00:35:57.060]that you're well-situated and not asking for certain things
[00:35:59.940]that might help you.
[00:36:00.773]For example, can I activate the closed caption?
[00:36:03.720]Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.
[00:36:04.553]And things like that.
[00:36:05.811]Those are really important tools.
[00:36:09.600]So that's another thing to think about with the disclosure.
[00:36:12.930]Now, you don't have to disclose it
[00:36:14.797]in the DEI statement, but-
[00:36:16.170]No, and actually, so-
[00:36:18.660]But you, there is a point
[00:36:19.920]where that would become more important.
[00:36:21.840]Yes, and that's one of those things that I would look at
[00:36:26.430]as I'm trying to get a sense of, if this is something
[00:36:29.430]that's really important to me and my career-
[00:36:31.560]Yeah.
[00:36:33.750]And who I am, then I'm gonna be looking
[00:36:36.570]at what's already built in.
[00:36:38.070]Yeah.
[00:36:38.903]Right, 'cause this is in response
[00:36:39.736]to systems of oppression.
[00:36:41.760]And if they have not done some work
[00:36:44.880]to interrupt their own systems, like that gives me a clue
[00:36:48.180]of kind of where we're at.
[00:36:49.200]And it could be that they've focused on other systems.
[00:36:52.740]You never know kind of the full story, but like,
[00:36:55.519]if there's an upfront, "Hey, these are the measures
[00:36:59.460]that we take to ensure that this process is accessible
[00:37:02.610]and equitable, are there any other adaptations
[00:37:06.960]that we need to make for you?"
[00:37:07.980]Like that's really important.
[00:37:10.200]And if that's not happening, then ask for it.
[00:37:14.040]Yeah.
[00:37:14.873]Right, and they, if this is truly something
[00:37:19.890]that they're living, they'll figure it out.
[00:37:21.870]Like, that's not on you as a candidate.
[00:37:25.410]That's really on the institution.
[00:37:30.330]Yeah, that's my thought. So what are some
[00:37:33.240]of your advice, when students come to you and say,
[00:37:35.737]"I'm starting to write this.
[00:37:37.290]I don't know exactly where to go and how to do this well."
[00:37:42.210]So I think the biggest thing
[00:37:43.680]is get as specific as possible.
[00:37:47.100]Like this should, I think there's two ways to come at this.
[00:37:51.270]There's the way of, you know, I'm gonna pay this lip service
[00:37:55.710]and I'm just gonna have it because I have to have it.
[00:37:59.130]But there's also the possibility to make it very specific
[00:38:07.230]and very clear to yourself.
[00:38:10.050]Yeah.
[00:38:10.883]What your political stance on this is, right?
[00:38:13.590]Like what, and then when I talk about politics,
[00:38:15.720]I'm not talking about like-
[00:38:17.580]Voting politics.
[00:38:18.780]Voting politics, but I'm talking about
[00:38:21.810]what are the core values that you yourself structure,
[00:38:25.890]not only your career, but also your life around,
[00:38:29.820]and how can you be correct within those politics?
[00:38:33.270]So it becomes a really interesting exercise
[00:38:36.810]to think through what is really important to me,
[00:38:41.070]and how am I living out those values?
[00:38:42.810]Like how am, I believe in poverty abolition,
[00:38:46.170]so what am I doing to live that value out?
[00:38:51.540]One, by only going to Starbucks that have unions.
[00:38:55.710]You know, like that's one thing that I'm trying to do.
[00:38:58.980]I believe in public transportation,
[00:39:01.470]so I ride the bus every day when I possibly can, right?
[00:39:07.950]So like, what are the lived experiences?
[00:39:11.400]How am I reorganizing my life, my activity, et cetera,
[00:39:16.320]in order to be correct within my politics?
[00:39:20.940]I want to lay those politics out, avoid cliches, like-
[00:39:24.510]Definitely avoid cliches.
[00:39:25.710]Avoid the think about this as an invitation
[00:39:31.110]to really do some thoughtful reflection
[00:39:34.350]around what does this mean to me?
[00:39:36.900]Yeah.
[00:39:38.070]And how is this translating into action?
[00:39:41.730]And I think that's going to be,
[00:39:43.530]that's a much more powerful statement.
[00:39:45.870]Even if it's, holy crap, I've realized
[00:39:49.110]that I need to do some more stuff, right?
[00:39:52.560]Like that admission. Yes.
[00:39:53.880]None of us is doing
[00:39:54.990]this work. Everything we could, yeah.
[00:39:57.690]You know, at, there's always ways to be better at it,
[00:40:04.020]there's always ways...
[00:40:07.230]Ways to be better, but also ways to learn
[00:40:09.570]because this, you have to treat this as a learning journey.
[00:40:13.440]And again, I'm thinking, from my perspective
[00:40:15.570]and perspective of international students,
[00:40:18.060]it's a learning journey.
[00:40:19.500]You're figuring this out.
[00:40:20.940]What does it look like in schools, K12 schools?
[00:40:23.550]What does it look like on campus?
[00:40:25.470]I mean, most people, when they start on this journey
[00:40:31.170]towards the professorate,
[00:40:33.870]are not really seeing what's happening in support systems
[00:40:37.170]for undergraduates or admissions or all of these things.
[00:40:41.970]There's so many things happening
[00:40:43.380]that we don't fully understand,
[00:40:45.810]and we are still exploring them.
[00:40:49.140]So saying I'm on a journey is perfectly acceptable,
[00:40:52.573]and showing how you are on a journey,
[00:40:55.380]how are you trying to learn?
[00:40:57.481]Well, and I think one other thing
[00:40:59.430]that I would recommend is, I am really, really fortunate
[00:41:04.470]to have had some amazing Black women invest a lot of time
[00:41:08.187]and a lot of energy in me.
[00:41:09.900]And so every time I'm in a faculty meeting
[00:41:12.690]and I raise my hand to talk about access and equity
[00:41:15.060]and what's the actual, like, actionable item around that.
[00:41:17.820]Like, I am trying to validate the time and energy
[00:41:20.640]that they have spent in me.
[00:41:22.200]Emotional.
[00:41:23.550]Yeah.
[00:41:24.383]They were so formative.
[00:41:28.260]But part of that is the urgency, right?
[00:41:32.230]Yeah. Like the thing
[00:41:33.690]that I don't necessarily love about, oh, this is my journey.
[00:41:36.870]Well, are you meandering, or are you at like-
[00:41:40.680]Yes.
[00:41:41.730]Are you at a pace?
[00:41:43.380]Yes, you have to act also.
[00:41:45.878]You have to- But you have to-
[00:41:47.074]You have to act, and you have to,
[00:41:49.740]like demonstrating some level of urgency
[00:41:54.900]in terms of what are actual reasonable timelines
[00:41:59.910]to get stuff done in, and what's most important to you?
[00:42:03.750]Like if you can point to specific projects,
[00:42:06.270]'cause there's enough DEI work to go around, like-
[00:42:09.150]Yeah.
[00:42:10.271]Everyone could have an individual project,
[00:42:11.104]and we still would not get everything done.
[00:42:13.522]Yeah.
[00:42:14.355]But like, how are you thinking about that timescale?
[00:42:19.110]Because I sometimes worry that, oh, it's my journey,
[00:42:23.310]and I'm reading these books,
[00:42:24.510]and I'm going to these conferences, which impacts your life,
[00:42:27.270]which is great, but chances are, you're already privileged.
[00:42:30.150]Yeah.
[00:42:30.983]So how are you doing work to elevate other people's lives,
[00:42:37.680]other people's experiences,
[00:42:40.590]who are disadvantaged by these systems?
[00:42:42.240]How are you interrupting those systems?
[00:42:44.070]Because this is not problem admiration,
[00:42:46.080]this is problem solving, and how are you getting there?
[00:42:49.470]Like that's great, you are learning,
[00:42:52.500]but you can do two things at the same time.
[00:42:54.806]We need to-
[00:42:55.639]Yes, absolutely.
[00:42:56.472]We need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time,
[00:42:59.782]and like navigate the guilt of, oh my gosh,
[00:43:06.450]I didn't know this about this.
[00:43:07.710]Okay, now you know, move on.
[00:43:10.050]Let's go 'cause that is, again, like navel gazing.
[00:43:16.950]All right.
[00:43:17.783]Wow, I have some feelings.
[00:43:19.260]Yes, you do.
[00:43:21.810]Have some feelings.
[00:43:22.986]Yes, and there's a lot of work to be done.
[00:43:25.530]There's a lot of work
[00:43:26.363]to be done. Which is important.
[00:43:27.270]And education is one of the ways to do that work.
[00:43:30.230]So we are privileged also with the opportunity to open doors
[00:43:35.310]and to provide and help the next generation of students
[00:43:40.410]and scholars and teacher educators, in our case,
[00:43:45.180]to keep doing the work and to be supported doing the work.
[00:43:49.710]And that brings me to one piece of advice that I have.
[00:43:52.620]Share your statement with your mentor or mentors
[00:43:57.030]and have an opportunity to have a discussion
[00:43:59.940]to see what are the holes in your statement
[00:44:02.880]and what are some opportunities.
[00:44:04.320]It is still your statement,
[00:44:05.520]so don't write anything you don't believe in.
[00:44:07.680]Going back to values,
[00:44:09.000]it doesn't matter what kind of feedback you have,
[00:44:10.800]eventually, it is your statement.
[00:44:12.660]Also, you don't want to exaggerate
[00:44:14.460]or point to things you don't want to do
[00:44:16.110]because people will expect you to live to those values
[00:44:19.200]when they hire you.
[00:44:20.160]So position yourself well to the things you want
[00:44:23.400]and are capable of doing.
[00:44:24.940]Exactly, yep, do not set yourself up
[00:44:29.100]as having a skillset that you don't have.
[00:44:31.080]Yeah.
[00:44:31.913]Right, and in seeking out, I mean,
[00:44:37.110]one of the most transformative things for me
[00:44:39.270]was going to, paying money to go to workshops
[00:44:43.680]around systematic change for equity and access,
[00:44:46.950]where, like, you can study it,
[00:44:49.830]you can be part of the population,
[00:44:51.600]but until you have an understanding of what tools are there
[00:44:55.290]to actually engage and accelerate change,
[00:45:01.320]like that was game-changer, total game-changer.
[00:45:05.790]And so, be clear about what your skillset is
[00:45:09.870]and being thoughtful about, you know, are you foregrounded,
[00:45:19.560]backgrounded, all of that kind of stuff.
[00:45:21.540]We've already talked about it. Yeah.
[00:45:22.710]But, I mean, yeah, so I mean, who doesn't love,
[00:45:28.951](Guy laughs)
[00:45:30.180]who doesn't love a good podcast episode
[00:45:32.040]about the job market that, you know?
[00:45:34.287]The opportunities out there
[00:45:36.000]and the opportunities to articulate your thinking,
[00:45:38.640]but also the hard work
[00:45:40.680]of actually choosing what to write about.
[00:45:43.260]Well, and one of the things that I find so fascinating
[00:45:46.560]about the job process is really how it,
[00:45:51.810]not necessarily when you're applying
[00:45:53.370]to like 17 different positions at one time, right?
[00:45:55.500]Like I don't think that that,
[00:45:56.970]when you're on kind of an industrial-
[00:45:58.464]Yeah.
[00:45:59.297]But when you, there's a privilege around being able
[00:46:03.270]to have some time when you're just focusing on one or two-
[00:46:06.810]Yeah.
[00:46:07.643]Particular applications to really use that as a tool
[00:46:10.740]to define and refine and revise what's important to you.
[00:46:17.340]Yeah.
[00:46:18.330]And so I don't know that grad students who are applying
[00:46:22.590]to as many jobs as possible are gonna have that privilege.
[00:46:26.010]But I would say, choose the job you want the most.
[00:46:28.918]Right, choose-
[00:46:29.751]And put that work at least in that,
[00:46:31.260]this is my number one job, put that work in.
[00:46:34.350]Yes, and thinking about going back to,
[00:46:36.630]calling back to a previous podcast around, you know,
[00:46:41.130]having a core set of materials, what is core to you?
[00:46:43.860]And once you've defined that from that one job
[00:46:47.010]that you're like, I really want this one,
[00:46:48.480]I'm gonna throw all my eggs in this basket.
[00:46:50.520]And then other ones that you're not as interested in,
[00:46:53.340]you're still gonna put in some work,
[00:46:54.570]but not as much work as that one, right?
[00:46:57.270]So think about this as really an opportunity to,
[00:47:01.500]like I said, define, refine, revise.
[00:47:06.210]Yeah.
[00:47:07.043]Who you are and how you live that identity,
[00:47:09.210]because that's what they're gonna be looking for.
[00:47:12.330]They're going to be looking for what are the skillsets,
[00:47:16.080]what are the things that you bring into that position.
[00:47:19.260]And I think if you can ground it in the action,
[00:47:24.030]the lived action, that's really important.
[00:47:27.210]Yeah, all right. So.
[00:47:29.430]And so.
[00:47:31.140]And so.
[00:47:32.220]As people who are not that kind of doctor.
[00:47:36.480]We are not that kind of doctor, but...
[00:47:39.682]But we are that kind of doctor.
[00:47:41.743]We are the, as Josie Fox said,
[00:47:43.987]"Not the kind that matters."
[00:47:45.980](Guy laughs)
[00:47:47.010]You know, there comes a point where, you know,
[00:47:49.020]she was elderly and was like, "Look, if I'm flatlining,
[00:47:54.840]you're not gonna help me with your, you know,
[00:47:57.000]exuberant knowledge of Habermas."
[00:47:59.430]She wasn't wrong, she wasn't wrong.
[00:48:01.620]But yeah, that's been "Not That Kind of Doctor."
[00:48:05.760]Hopefully we were somewhat helpful.
[00:48:07.230]Hopefully there's some value added.
[00:48:08.370]If not, at least maybe we're entertaining.
[00:48:11.430]All right.
[00:48:12.263]Thumbs up for entertaining.
[00:48:13.504](bright music)

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Not That Kind of Doctor - Diversity Statement

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