Not That Kind of Doctor - Diversity Statements Demystified for Academic Job Seekers
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11/14/2023
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In this episode of "Not That Kind of Doctor," Guy and Nick dive into the essential task of crafting impactful diversity statements, a crucial element in today's academic job market. Whether you're a graduate student entering the academic workforce or an established scholar seeking new opportunities, understanding how to effectively communicate your commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion is more important than ever. Join us as we explore the evolution of diversity statements in academia, the importance of aligning your values with institutional missions, and strategies for articulating your DEI work authentically.
🎓 What You'll Learn:
The rise of diversity statements in academic job applications and why they matter (3:00)
How to align your personal and professional values with DEI initiatives in your statement (5:30)
The significance of storytelling in conveying your DEI commitments and experiences (15:00)
Tips for balancing authenticity with strategic positioning in your diversity statement (25:00)
How to avoid common pitfalls and clichés while highlighting your unique contributions (32:00)
Whether you're crafting your first diversity statement or refining an existing one, this episode provides practical advice and thoughtful reflections to help you stand out in the job market. Remember, while we’re not that kind of doctor, we’re here to guide you through the complexities of academic life.
Like, comment, and subscribe for more insightful discussions that address the real challenges of academia with clarity and humor. 🎓✨
#DiversityStatement #AcademicJobs #HigherEducation #DEI #JobMarket
Diversity Statement - Not That Kind of Doctor with Nick Husbye and Guy Trainin
www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor
Searchable Transcript
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- [00:00:00.133](exciting music)
- [00:00:09.900]What are we talking about, diversity statements?
- [00:00:12.608]Diversity statements.
- [00:00:15.940]Yes.
- [00:00:17.040]Diversity statements, yeah, so...
- [00:00:25.110]How are you doing?
- [00:00:27.687]You know, upright and not crying?
- [00:00:30.049](laughs) That is always good.
- [00:00:32.190]This point of the semester, we're shooting
- [00:00:34.590]in the beginning of November, so this is the time
- [00:00:37.470]where the semester starts getting heavy.
- [00:00:39.900]I mean, it's not really the beginning of November anymore.
- [00:00:42.090]It's November 8th
- [00:00:43.470]when we're recording this. That is still in the-
- [00:00:44.490]So like, we're past the first full week.
- [00:00:47.130]Like we are in the mid. That is true.
- [00:00:48.120]We are mid-November.
- [00:00:50.010]We are in the, you know,
- [00:00:53.970]we're out of the formative days of November.
- [00:00:56.760]Okay.
- [00:00:57.630]Right, but we're gearing up,
- [00:01:00.030]we're gearing up for that push to the end of the semester.
- [00:01:05.038]Yeah.
- [00:01:05.871]And yeah, it's just been one thing after another
- [00:01:10.860]after another, which I know you can also...
- [00:01:14.670]Yes, it has been.
- [00:01:17.160]It has been, it's been a thing, it's been a thing.
- [00:01:19.230]Yes, it has, and there are lots
- [00:01:21.780]of searches happening right now.
- [00:01:23.490]How are your letters of recommendation going?
- [00:01:26.850]Almost done with letters of recommendation.
- [00:01:29.100]I had quite a few, in this cycle, to write for people
- [00:01:34.440]that have just graduated, that are working on their files
- [00:01:37.590]and looking for the next job.
- [00:01:39.210]And a few that have actually been working in one place
- [00:01:41.760]and are looking for the next jump.
- [00:01:44.130]And so it's been really interesting to navigate.
- [00:01:46.620]There are quite a few jobs out there.
- [00:01:48.480]There are quite a few jobs.
- [00:01:49.680]And I'm really interested in, there was a piece
- [00:01:53.760]in The Chronicle two weeks ago maybe,
- [00:01:56.490]about how like the, this idea of a tenured professor staying
- [00:02:04.530]in one place is not, is mirroring
- [00:02:06.990]what we're seeing elsewhere.
- [00:02:08.640]Yeah. In the job force.
- [00:02:09.570]Like there's a lot of jumping, there's a lot of moving.
- [00:02:12.750]You don't get that deep-rooted position very much anymore,
- [00:02:19.770]which was interesting to think about
- [00:02:24.210]because if I think about my own career trajectory,
- [00:02:26.790]I'm very much aligned with that, right, like what?
- [00:02:29.070]And I'm not, so I'm a generation...
- [00:02:31.590]You're anomaly.
- [00:02:33.026]I am older and have been around a little bit older,
- [00:02:38.250]a little bit more time in academia.
- [00:02:41.850]And I chose to stay in one place, first of all,
- [00:02:44.670]because I was happy with that place, so that helps.
- [00:02:49.440]And also because the way I thought about this,
- [00:02:54.330]especially in the kind of research that I've done early
- [00:02:57.180]in my career, but even beyond that,
- [00:03:00.390]is thinking about those networks that you create
- [00:03:04.590]to support your research.
- [00:03:05.880]So if you want to go and collect data in a school district
- [00:03:09.330]or create, bring people together to create a large grant,
- [00:03:14.730]for example, right now working on teacher shortages.
- [00:03:17.490]So all of these connections pay back to you.
- [00:03:21.900]So staying in one place really benefited that notion.
- [00:03:27.120]So that's what I see going for staying in a place.
- [00:03:30.690]But there are certain costs to staying in a place,
- [00:03:33.690]and there might be opportunities somewhere else
- [00:03:36.300]there might be something that is a better fit for you.
- [00:03:39.543]That it's definitely an opportunity to upgrade
- [00:03:42.930]from one kind of an institution to another
- [00:03:46.717]or working with a different leadership
- [00:03:49.950]or even getting more money.
- [00:03:51.570]I love how you're like, "It's like upgrading
- [00:03:53.880]from a Coach bag to a Louis Vuitton."
- [00:03:57.060]Yes, exactly. Delightful.
- [00:03:59.820]Exactly, or maybe not, or maybe,
- [00:04:02.370]as one scholar that once hosted here
- [00:04:07.800]that has been to about seven institutions,
- [00:04:10.830]said, "Eventually, it's kind of all the same."
- [00:04:14.003]I mean- The same kind of people,
- [00:04:15.780]the same kind of interaction, your work is your work.
- [00:04:19.440]So there's also a cost to every time you move,
- [00:04:23.130]you gotta reestablish, you gotta find the grocery store
- [00:04:25.860]and everything.
- [00:04:26.693]So there are costs to this too.
- [00:04:28.140]Oh yeah, no, totally.
- [00:04:29.280]And I think that that idea of there's no,
- [00:04:35.580]every place is going to have its stuff.
- [00:04:38.160]Yes.
- [00:04:39.374]Every place is going to be somewhat similar.
- [00:04:41.130]Like there's more commonalities across institutions
- [00:04:44.220]than there are differences.
- [00:04:45.960]And that was something that, you know,
- [00:04:49.020]took me a little while to figure out, you know,
- [00:04:51.780]but, ooh, what is this, what is this?
- [00:04:54.480]This is, we gotta say, this is...
- [00:04:57.870]Oh yes, I keep forgetting.
- [00:04:59.790]This is "Not That Kind of Doctor."
- [00:05:02.520]This is the delightful Guy Trainin.
- [00:05:06.090]This is Nick Husbye.
- [00:05:08.010]And we're from the University of Nebraska at Lincoln.
- [00:05:11.400]And today, we're talking about,
- [00:05:13.352]to segue into what we're talking about, actually,
- [00:05:16.680]we're revisiting the work that we've done
- [00:05:20.250]around job market stuff,
- [00:05:22.710]thinking about how to find the positions, writing a letter.
- [00:05:26.880]One of the things that I'm noticing,
- [00:05:29.490]this particular job season is, almost every single posting
- [00:05:33.600]that I've looked at in order to support other people
- [00:05:38.370]in their job search has been asking
- [00:05:40.620]for a diversity statement.
- [00:05:42.330]Yeah.
- [00:05:43.495]Or a statement on, a couple of them frame it
- [00:05:45.540]as a social justice statement, a couple have framed it
- [00:05:48.540]as an equity statement, and this is somewhat
- [00:05:53.280]of a new piece of that application packet.
- [00:05:57.990]And so I thought it would be nice to kind of unpack that
- [00:06:02.790]and think about how might one craft
- [00:06:08.250]an impactful equity/diversity/social justice,
- [00:06:15.420]whatever they're calling it, statement that deals with,
- [00:06:20.250]you know, the kind of institutional mission
- [00:06:23.220]of where they're applying to.
- [00:06:24.840]And I think that, as we thought about this topic,
- [00:06:29.670]it's also about how can you use this opportunity
- [00:06:33.630]to have a voice in that search process
- [00:06:36.840]to actually distinguish yourself and differentiate yourself
- [00:06:40.830]because, in general,
- [00:06:43.770]everybody is going to write something positive, involved,
- [00:06:49.770]and try to find out what is it that they've done
- [00:06:53.220]that will be helpful to illustrate the point.
- [00:06:56.160]But it is an opportunity
- [00:06:57.780]to do something a little bit different
- [00:06:59.670]to highlight the work you've done,
- [00:07:01.710]the things that you're thinking about,
- [00:07:03.780]and how you would position them.
- [00:07:06.030]And in search committees I've been on,
- [00:07:09.210]there has been significant differences
- [00:07:12.450]between candidates,
- [00:07:13.980]and we've had opportunities where this is the point
- [00:07:18.120]where a candidate became the second choice
- [00:07:20.670]instead of the first choice, so it really does matter.
- [00:07:23.370]It's not just a pro forma thing, it really does matter,
- [00:07:26.910]and it's being read very seriously
- [00:07:29.370]and considered very seriously,
- [00:07:31.020]so it's something to attend to.
- [00:07:32.970]So I would love to know your insights
- [00:07:34.800]around like the rise of thinking about equity, access,
- [00:07:42.330]social justice at an institutional level
- [00:07:45.510]because this kind of came about as I was in the middle
- [00:07:49.170]of my own institution-hopping in terms of job-seeking.
- [00:07:54.360]And since you've been here at Nebraska.
- [00:07:57.960]Yes.
- [00:07:59.100]One of the affordances of that
- [00:08:00.960]is you have this historical, like institutional knowledge.
- [00:08:05.820]How has, 'cause I'm certain that the story of UNL
- [00:08:10.770]is the story of other places.
- [00:08:13.410]How are you seeing diversity becoming an element
- [00:08:19.680]that institutions and departments care about?
- [00:08:23.910]And where's that coming from?
- [00:08:25.560]What's kind of the background?
- [00:08:28.170]At least in my experience, I mean, diversity and inclusion
- [00:08:31.950]was always a component of the work we've done,
- [00:08:34.830]definitely in schools of education, but in general,
- [00:08:37.410]it was a component but it wasn't featured as a main event.
- [00:08:41.100]And institutionally, where we saw the most effort
- [00:08:44.700]around that was actually in recruiting.
- [00:08:46.590]So for very many years,
- [00:08:48.930]recruiting has been where we were trying to address issues
- [00:08:52.650]of diversity and opportunity and support,
- [00:08:56.250]scholarships and helping applications,
- [00:08:58.770]and trying to make sure that there are opportunities
- [00:09:00.930]to visit and to see what can happen at an institution
- [00:09:06.330]that is a predominantly white institution like ours.
- [00:09:09.930]And that has been the focus for a very long time.
- [00:09:15.000]So it happened kind of in the pre,
- [00:09:17.040]and we left students on their own.
- [00:09:18.900]And I think that throughout the early 2000,
- [00:09:21.660]there was this growing understanding
- [00:09:23.490]that we cannot leave students,
- [00:09:27.210]who come into an institution, on their own.
- [00:09:30.240]Supports need to happen along the way
- [00:09:31.950]to make sure they are successful
- [00:09:33.270]because if you bring students, we want them to be successful
- [00:09:35.970]regardless of their background.
- [00:09:37.650]And different students have different needs,
- [00:09:40.530]definitely financial, but supports,
- [00:09:42.960]having mentors, having opportunities
- [00:09:44.940]to learn how to navigate an institution.
- [00:09:47.280]It's always difficult
- [00:09:48.810]when it's a predominantly white institution,
- [00:09:51.630]and you are not one of those students.
- [00:09:53.580]So there was this growing understanding,
- [00:09:56.580]and then, at least for us, in the mid-2010s,
- [00:10:02.877]so around 2015, 2016, there was a shift
- [00:10:06.461]to taking a lot more ownership all the way from the top.
- [00:10:11.430]So from the chancellor's level or the president's level
- [00:10:14.220]all the way down to actually do an audit and then hire,
- [00:10:19.170]at a different level, diversity officers,
- [00:10:21.960]and we're seeing them across universities.
- [00:10:23.730]It's one of the waves of jobs that got elevated
- [00:10:27.360]to associate chancellor or the equivalent
- [00:10:29.610]in different institutions.
- [00:10:31.230]So it was a sign that it's taken more seriously.
- [00:10:33.900]And then faculty working inside departments started pushing
- [00:10:38.070]for more emphasis on diversity.
- [00:10:41.550]And I think the moment, the George Floyd murder,
- [00:10:45.000]and everything around that, really coalesced
- [00:10:47.880]and forced anybody who did not have a statement by then,
- [00:10:52.260]started issuing a statement about inclusion, diversity,
- [00:10:56.280]equity, and to bring it into the main discussion.
- [00:11:00.210]And we saw that, for example, I'm a member of organization
- [00:11:04.500]that deals with how do we build schools?
- [00:11:07.980]And so they are not, their emphasis
- [00:11:11.280]on diversity and equity came very late.
- [00:11:17.370]But that's a central piece even for institutions
- [00:11:20.370]that looks at how do we create schools that are more open
- [00:11:24.150]to diversity, provide more equity, and are more inclusive.
- [00:11:28.530]So we saw that throughout.
- [00:11:30.540]And then just before the pandemic and during the pandemic,
- [00:11:34.110]when there was a rise in awareness,
- [00:11:39.780]a rise in just an articulation
- [00:11:43.110]of what has always been out there.
- [00:11:45.270]This is not new in any way, but there was a level
- [00:11:48.390]of commitment that we haven't seen before.
- [00:11:50.640]And every, when you have a statement by the department,
- [00:11:54.510]this is part of our belief system now, it made sense
- [00:11:57.960]to start asking candidates, how do they fit in within that.
- [00:12:03.090]Now I think it actually started because, early on,
- [00:12:07.110]in the 2019, 2020 hiring cycles,
- [00:12:13.500]some institutions started putting that emphasis
- [00:12:15.840]and some institutions have not.
- [00:12:18.090]And what I remember seeing is the very stark realities
- [00:12:22.320]where some candidates applying to a job were highly aware
- [00:12:25.350]and highly attuned and others were not.
- [00:12:28.080]So it was very clear that it was discussed with some,
- [00:12:30.810]but not with others.
- [00:12:32.340]And it created real differences in the hiring process.
- [00:12:36.120]I think, at this point, most institutions that we work with,
- [00:12:39.810]at least, that I've seen our students apply to,
- [00:12:42.750]have a component of that.
- [00:12:45.390]And so it is a little bit different in the way
- [00:12:48.600]that it is playing out right now then.
- [00:12:52.350]And we're talking about four, five years ago.
- [00:12:54.030]We're not talking a long time ago.
- [00:12:56.700]Oh yeah, no, I mean it's-
- [00:12:57.771]It was still rare.
- [00:12:59.070]And now it's almost to the point
- [00:13:01.530]where every single posting has asked
- [00:13:03.840]for something connected to DEI or what have you.
- [00:13:08.940]And I think it's important to notice,
- [00:13:10.980]I was thinking about this, as you were talking,
- [00:13:13.020]that the way that you come at this statement is going to,
- [00:13:18.480]and we'll talk more about this in a minute,
- [00:13:20.370]but who you are as a person, right?
- [00:13:24.210]So I'm coming at this from a particular intersection
- [00:13:27.720]of identity.
- [00:13:28.560]You're coming at it from a particular intersection
- [00:13:30.210]of identity.
- [00:13:32.790]I think I can say we're both white, we're both male, right?
- [00:13:36.510]So like, there's, and there's certain considerations
- [00:13:40.020]that, you know, depending on what identity categories
- [00:13:46.320]you're occupying, that the ways
- [00:13:48.240]that you're going to focus on
- [00:13:49.740]and take on this particular task.
- [00:13:53.970]So, when we're thinking about, given all of that history,
- [00:13:59.160]as we're thinking about the ways
- [00:14:01.110]that this has kind of been ramping up
- [00:14:03.300]and is kind of being centered, or possibly, you know,
- [00:14:10.140]at least given some credence, some time, right?
- [00:14:14.822]Your diversity statement, when you're thinking about this,
- [00:14:17.100]you really wanna be thinking about how you foster equity,
- [00:14:24.120]diversity, and oftentimes,
- [00:14:28.230]the statements will talk about inclusion, right?
- [00:14:30.730]Yeah. So what are your beliefs
- [00:14:32.070]around that?
- [00:14:33.319]What do you do around that?
- [00:14:35.310]And I'm a big believer in being correct
- [00:14:41.910]within my own politics.
- [00:14:43.800]So if I were to be doing a diversity statement right now,
- [00:14:47.520]I don't know that I could talk about inclusion.
- [00:14:49.290]I don't know that I could talk about it in the way
- [00:14:52.380]that I think some institutions want to talk about it
- [00:14:55.650]because the thing that comes before inclusion
- [00:14:59.460]for me is creating access
- [00:15:02.790]and ensuring that environments are not toxic environments
- [00:15:08.040]for individuals who occupy particular identities.
- [00:15:14.340]And like, I can talk about inclusion all I want,
- [00:15:19.290]but if once I bring folks into an environment,
- [00:15:22.950]if it's not a hospitable environment,
- [00:15:27.210]that's not really useful, you know?
- [00:15:30.810]So I tend to, so when I'm talking about access and equity,
- [00:15:37.350]just in general terms, I tend not to talk too much
- [00:15:40.230]about inclusion, and I will often get questions
- [00:15:42.570]about that, right?
- [00:15:44.280]And so thinking about how you want to tackle that,
- [00:15:49.860]like what do these things actually mean to you?
- [00:15:53.610]This statement is an opportunity to not just do lip service,
- [00:15:57.840]but really lay out where are your politics when it comes to,
- [00:16:05.490]I tend to think about it in terms of access and equity.
- [00:16:09.540]And if I focus in on access and equity,
- [00:16:13.590]then that is going to create, I'm working to create spaces
- [00:16:17.670]where, you know, diversity is going to hopefully happen
- [00:16:22.980]because I'm working to create a more hospitable environment
- [00:16:27.930]for a variety of different students.
- [00:16:31.020]And what I'm hearing you say, and I don't know
- [00:16:35.550]that I've fully thought about this,
- [00:16:37.470]is that while we talk about our own beliefs
- [00:16:44.040]in a statement like this, or we want to read
- [00:16:46.650]about the candidate's beliefs,
- [00:16:49.260]and then we think through what are the opportunities
- [00:16:53.070]and where have we engaged in that kind of work
- [00:16:57.000]or thought about it, but at the same time,
- [00:17:00.750]we're admitting, if you are coming to a new institution,
- [00:17:04.260]definitely if you're coming as an assistant professor,
- [00:17:06.327]and you're just starting your journey, you have to recognize
- [00:17:10.770]that you are not, you cannot change the whole system
- [00:17:14.370]just because you showed up and you have good intentions.
- [00:17:16.920]There's a system there, there's an environment there,
- [00:17:19.770]there are things already happening.
- [00:17:21.720]And so you, in a way, it's the do not overpromise
- [00:17:26.550]and do not, especially for candidates of color,
- [00:17:29.550]do not become the person who's sacrificing their career-
- [00:17:35.730]Oh yeah.
- [00:17:37.380]For trying to advance access and equity and inclusion
- [00:17:41.550]because that's, we know that from research,
- [00:17:44.520]that's a recipe for burnout and for frustration,
- [00:17:48.660]and potentially even for not being successful in the job.
- [00:17:51.570]So those are the points where you want to be careful
- [00:17:54.600]not to illustrate yourself as somebody who's gonna come
- [00:17:57.360]and change everything.
- [00:17:58.680]You come and say, "This is who I am, this is what I believe,
- [00:18:01.740]these are the things that I think I can contribute to,"
- [00:18:05.010]and make sure it's measured.
- [00:18:08.524]One place where I think it's important
- [00:18:12.270]is to think about where does it fit in your research?
- [00:18:14.550]And I know, for example, I grew up in a time
- [00:18:16.710]where you can conduct research with fairly minimal thought
- [00:18:20.880]to diversity and inclusion
- [00:18:22.920]as you were thinking about your research.
- [00:18:26.070]And that's something to be thoughtful about.
- [00:18:27.840]It doesn't mean that you have had to make that the center
- [00:18:30.870]of your research program,
- [00:18:32.310]but you definitely have to take that into consideration.
- [00:18:35.280]Who are you working with, for what goals?
- [00:18:38.460]How are you differentiating or including,
- [00:18:42.240]both in research teams and definitely in the participants
- [00:18:45.390]that are part of your research,
- [00:18:46.920]to make sure that you don't just replicate bias
- [00:18:53.940]but actually are working
- [00:18:55.290]against it. Whiten it up,
- [00:18:56.190]like toothpaste. (Guy laughs)
- [00:18:58.890]Right? And so,
- [00:18:59.723]and there's a way to think through that.
- [00:19:02.700]And sometimes, sometimes it's not part of the main drive
- [00:19:08.490]of the way you teach or the way, definitely not the way,
- [00:19:14.040]if you're doing basic research, for example.
- [00:19:15.900]One of my professors in my graduate career was looking into,
- [00:19:25.650]into working memory, and working memory,
- [00:19:29.370]where that would come in was making sure that your,
- [00:19:32.910]the people you were working with
- [00:19:34.170]were from a diverse background to make sure
- [00:19:37.320]that the results are applicable across groups.
- [00:19:41.010]But beyond that, it's the same instruments
- [00:19:44.490]doing very similar things.
- [00:19:46.470]But you still have to be thoughtful about it.
- [00:19:49.170]You still have to be ready to talk about how that intersects
- [00:19:54.900]with diversity and inclusion,
- [00:19:57.780]thinking about that kind of work, and that's not easy.
- [00:20:01.770]If you're not ready and you get that question
- [00:20:03.630]in the middle of a research presentation,
- [00:20:05.850]that's probably not gonna be really useful.
- [00:20:11.130]So thinking about it and articulating it
- [00:20:14.040]in your statement would help the thinking process
- [00:20:17.640]and making sure that, hey, you can have a vision
- [00:20:20.910]of how you do that.
- [00:20:23.250]And, of course, there are levels because there are people
- [00:20:25.827]whose research is about diversity and inclusion.
- [00:20:29.280]Obviously, they will have a lot more to say
- [00:20:31.440]because they're at the heart of this.
- [00:20:33.510]But even if you're working on reading, as I did early
- [00:20:36.870]in my career, you still have to think
- [00:20:39.780]about how that intersects, what insights do you have,
- [00:20:43.290]and how did you make sure to be inclusive both to teachers,
- [00:20:47.160]and in my case, students.
- [00:20:49.050]Mm-hmm, well, and I think too, when you're,
- [00:20:52.170]we've talked a lot about beliefs so far,
- [00:20:54.990]and I think one of the things
- [00:20:56.700]that really makes a high-quality statement stand out from a,
- [00:21:02.130]okay, you believe some things is like, what can you do?
- [00:21:06.150]Like what is the work, when you're thinking about values,
- [00:21:11.340]and I feel like the next time I say this
- [00:21:13.290]in a faculty meeting, someone's gonna throw an apple at me
- [00:21:15.810]or something, a tomato at me, but like,
- [00:21:18.840]when we're thinking about values,
- [00:21:20.310]what happens in those values are verbs.
- [00:21:22.410]Like how do we, again, live out our values?
- [00:21:26.250]How does one live out their value
- [00:21:28.975]and make that clear for others?
- [00:21:34.590]So if I am dedicated and trying to live out my value
- [00:21:43.543]of access and equity, what are things that I can point to
- [00:21:48.300]that I have done that show that I am working
- [00:21:52.170]to disrupt systems of oppression within the place
- [00:21:57.330]in which I work, within the teaching that I do.
- [00:22:01.290]Possibly not in my research,
- [00:22:04.260]partially because there are other scholars
- [00:22:08.190]who are doing that better than I ever could.
- [00:22:12.840]And so I like, I kind of know my place.
- [00:22:15.990]Yes.
- [00:22:16.823]In the research.
- [00:22:17.656]Absolutely.
- [00:22:18.741]Right, so, but I think when you can look at,
- [00:22:22.890]okay, you believe this, great, right?
- [00:22:27.150]But it's not-
- [00:22:27.983]Show it to me, yeah.
- [00:22:28.816]It's not Santa.
- [00:22:29.790]Yeah.
- [00:22:30.623]Show me what that looks like on the ground
- [00:22:34.020]'cause we can believe all we want.
- [00:22:36.750]This isn't Tinker Bell.
- [00:22:37.710]If we clap, we're not gonna make this magically go away.
- [00:22:41.730]And really, DEI work is not sexy work.
- [00:22:45.555]It's understanding policy, it's creating new systems,
- [00:22:49.980]it's disrupting old systems.
- [00:22:51.600]So when you can think through and about how you've engaged
- [00:22:57.990]in that work and provide those examples,
- [00:23:02.880]that becomes really powerful
- [00:23:05.160]because it's transcending beyond that.
- [00:23:08.310]It's kind of like with undergrad teachers who are like,
- [00:23:11.047]"I believe every child can learn."
- [00:23:12.930]Okay, so what are you going to do about that?
- [00:23:14.943]Yeah.
- [00:23:15.776]What do you do when the child
- [00:23:18.001]is not getting the instruction that you've provided?
- [00:23:21.000]What's another way that you're coming at it?
- [00:23:23.190]Yeah, and the advantage of the preparation
- [00:23:28.260]to become an academic is that you do have opportunities,
- [00:23:31.560]to explore that, to contribute
- [00:23:33.780]and to be part of conversations.
- [00:23:35.790]So, and it's very telling, if you have an academic career
- [00:23:40.620]and you haven't participated in anything around DEI,
- [00:23:43.320]but you say, "I have all of these beliefs,"
- [00:23:45.570]obviously, there's a mismatch there.
- [00:23:48.106]And there might have not have been opportunities,
- [00:23:50.130]but right now, in most universities, most places I visit,
- [00:23:54.688]or places I write letters for, current or past students,
- [00:24:01.200]I can see that our students have had the opportunity
- [00:24:04.920]to have had experiences.
- [00:24:07.290]For example, we have Husker Dialogues,
- [00:24:09.030]which is an opportunity to talk with incoming students
- [00:24:12.030]somewhat about DEI issues, although not exclusively,
- [00:24:16.424]which is an interesting development,
- [00:24:18.810]but it's an opportunity.
- [00:24:20.490]And there's a call, generally, to faculty
- [00:24:22.950]and to graduate student to participate
- [00:24:25.080]as the people leading that.
- [00:24:27.270]It doesn't take much, it's a little bit of training,
- [00:24:30.450]and then participation.
- [00:24:32.040]At that night, you can participate once or twice,
- [00:24:34.290]but this is an opportunity to leave some of your values
- [00:24:37.230]and be willing to put yourself in a position
- [00:24:39.210]where you are actually talking about these issues
- [00:24:41.970]and trying to get the conversation going
- [00:24:44.190]with very young people and freshmen in their third
- [00:24:47.580]or fourth week at the university.
- [00:24:49.860]So that's a great opportunity.
- [00:24:51.270]And obviously, for me, it's what does it look like,
- [00:24:57.810]for example, in your syllabus?
- [00:24:59.250]So what have you done to the class you're teaching
- [00:25:02.070]that you don't have full control over?
- [00:25:03.720]Because it's a class that was designed by the institution
- [00:25:07.410]for specific purposes,
- [00:25:08.970]but what are the opportunities you took there
- [00:25:11.730]to discuss issues, to provide a more inclusive environment
- [00:25:17.550]to support the students that are around you?
- [00:25:19.510]These are opportunities to show.
- [00:25:22.500]And so you have to think about, that's the make it a verb.
- [00:25:26.880]This is what I did.
- [00:25:27.990]This is what I did, this is the impact,
- [00:25:30.270]this is how it contributes to that overarching idea-
- [00:25:33.450]Yes.
- [00:25:34.283]Of diversity, equity, however you're framing it.
- [00:25:37.710]And so let's shift into like what these statements normally
- [00:25:42.330]are comprised of 'cause normally, there's some level
- [00:25:45.300]of background information, right?
- [00:25:47.460]There's some level of what are your educational experiences
- [00:25:51.720]with diversity, with equity, with access,
- [00:25:55.200]those professional experiences,
- [00:25:57.300]and then what exactly are your commitments, right?
- [00:25:59.940]Like laying those four things out
- [00:26:03.900]in your diversity statement is going to probably match up
- [00:26:09.690]with what the institution is asking, right?
- [00:26:14.520]And I think, personally, one of the powerful tools
- [00:26:20.040]that you can use is storytelling within that statement-
- [00:26:24.467]Yeah, definitely. To kind of bring to light
- [00:26:29.460]how you came to do what you do while also being thoughtful
- [00:26:35.250]about those intersections that you yourself occupy, right?
- [00:26:39.660]And how to, when to foreground yourself,
- [00:26:42.270]when to background yourself, et cetera, et cetera.
- [00:26:45.390]So like, how we convey, and again,
- [00:26:51.180]it's gonna depend on who you are,
- [00:26:54.630]the way that you come at this, right?
- [00:26:56.460]Like I do, when I talk a lot about equity and access,
- [00:27:02.850]I tend to be a background person, right?
- [00:27:05.100]Like, because of the particular privileges
- [00:27:08.070]that I bring to the table.
- [00:27:10.320]Like I have better access to systems
- [00:27:13.331]and being able to change those systems
- [00:27:15.990]than someone else might because of my maleness,
- [00:27:19.290]my whiteness, because unless I open my mouth
- [00:27:22.950]or start moving my hands, I normally pass
- [00:27:24.810]for straight, right? Yeah.
- [00:27:25.920]So like that provides me particular kinds of access
- [00:27:28.980]that I can exploit.
- [00:27:30.570]Yeah.
- [00:27:31.768]To an extent, to engage in DEI work.
- [00:27:33.600]And that's the in, right?
- [00:27:35.490]And that's where the verb comes in.
- [00:27:37.140]That's my verb but I'm careful to,
- [00:27:40.230]like I am backgrounded, right?
- [00:27:43.230]Like I tend to think about it
- [00:27:47.700]as when everything was happening in Ferguson
- [00:27:51.600]around Michael Brown, like that was in our backyard,
- [00:27:54.480]and I handed out water.
- [00:27:57.060]I was not marching.
- [00:27:57.893]I made sure marchers had water.
- [00:27:59.460]Like that's my role, know my place.
- [00:28:01.830]Yeah.
- [00:28:02.959]Right, and that's kind of what I want to convey
- [00:28:11.269]as I'm writing my statements is,
- [00:28:14.760]look, this is how I personally operationalize this,
- [00:28:18.330]but it's gonna be different depending on who you are.
- [00:28:20.130]Yeah, and I always think about, personally,
- [00:28:24.660]because I moved to this country,
- [00:28:26.280]but I think about our graduate students
- [00:28:28.080]who come from other countries, and they're often identified
- [00:28:32.130]as a minoritized group because that's what you do
- [00:28:36.750]when you come.
- [00:28:37.800]You were often, not always, but often,
- [00:28:41.070]you were part of a majority group.
- [00:28:42.990]So you had that experience of privilege
- [00:28:45.120]in your country of origin.
- [00:28:46.410]I definitely did.
- [00:28:47.670]But most of our Chinese students, for example, have as well.
- [00:28:52.170]So that's your experience, and suddenly, you come here,
- [00:28:55.380]and you become some kind of a minority,
- [00:28:57.750]whether you're an English language learner
- [00:28:59.520]or you're international or you're an immigrant
- [00:29:02.413]and you have a specific racial identity on top of that,
- [00:29:08.010]that it feels really strange when you move
- [00:29:10.140]because you are not aware of that
- [00:29:11.640]because the American context plays
- [00:29:13.560]with all of that rather significantly.
- [00:29:16.020]So one of the things that I've seen people do,
- [00:29:19.230]and I recommend doing, is talk about your own journey
- [00:29:21.870]with that because when you come from Israel
- [00:29:24.750]or from China to the United States,
- [00:29:26.692]all of those layers of social justice, racial,
- [00:29:32.160]the racial history of the United States and everything,
- [00:29:34.590]is not clear to you.
- [00:29:35.700]Unless you were a student of history,
- [00:29:37.320]you have maybe glimpses of things,
- [00:29:39.930]but there's no way to discern the depth of that.
- [00:29:42.930]So talking about the journey you make along the way
- [00:29:46.320]to start understanding the American reality
- [00:29:48.660]and how much you still have to learn is part of that,
- [00:29:51.510]again, that positioning.
- [00:29:53.130]You're not coming as the all-knowing,
- [00:29:54.780]I understand all of this, I've figured this all out.
- [00:29:57.240]I don't think anybody has.
- [00:29:58.890]But, definitely, when you're coming from another country
- [00:30:01.650]and you've been in this country four or five years,
- [00:30:03.780]give or take, you still have a lot to learn.
- [00:30:06.600]And you can say that.
- [00:30:08.250]And that's important in that positioning
- [00:30:10.860]that the advantage you have, I think, is that you really,
- [00:30:14.370]you have gone through a process at the same time
- [00:30:16.830]of being minoritized.
- [00:30:18.420]So you have experienced what it is to be,
- [00:30:21.840]to have all of the privileges,
- [00:30:23.460]and now some of them are suddenly gone.
- [00:30:25.770]And suddenly you find yourself in a minority situation
- [00:30:29.730]where, for example, it's hard for you to rent an apartment
- [00:30:33.060]or all of these things that are illegal but still happen
- [00:30:37.736]and all of these prejudices that come with this.
- [00:30:40.560]So you have an experience from both sides,
- [00:30:43.290]which gives you a different window,
- [00:30:45.120]I think, into all of this.
- [00:30:46.710]So there's an opportunity to do that
- [00:30:48.600]without trying to put on an understanding
- [00:30:51.210]you don't necessarily have yet,
- [00:30:52.800]but you have to be aware of it.
- [00:30:54.450]You cannot, at this point, at least,
- [00:30:56.580]ask to be part of an American institution,
- [00:30:59.820]definitely not in education, and not be aware of issues
- [00:31:04.020]of DEI and how they intersect with everything we do.
- [00:31:07.860]And I think, for certain folks, when they're thinking
- [00:31:14.250]about what they're going to self-disclose, right?
- [00:31:16.900]'Cause if we're talking about a personal narrative,
- [00:31:18.630]one of the things that is a tension
- [00:31:20.700]is when to self-disclose, if you identify
- [00:31:24.900]with a particular group or not,
- [00:31:29.640]is kind of a really personal decision.
- [00:31:32.370]And you want to think through
- [00:31:34.890]and about what's your level of comfort doing that?
- [00:31:41.670]What's your level of perceived safety?
- [00:31:44.790]There's no, people talk about safe spaces.
- [00:31:48.600]I don't think that any particular space is 100% safe.
- [00:31:51.720]Like there's degrees of safety,
- [00:31:53.160]and you need to measure out how you perceive that, right?
- [00:31:58.080]So like, if there might be times where I disclose,
- [00:32:04.477]"Hey, I am a gay man living
- [00:32:07.800]in a very hetero-centered world."
- [00:32:11.010]Yes.
- [00:32:12.130]Right, and that impacts some of how I think through
- [00:32:16.050]and about access and equity.
- [00:32:19.320]However, I can just as easily write a statement
- [00:32:22.800]where I'm not disclosing that,
- [00:32:24.120]depending on what I perceive as, I mean,
- [00:32:30.690]the irony here is I don't want my diversity statement
- [00:32:33.750]or my equity statement-
- [00:32:34.583]To be just about that.
- [00:32:36.306]To create bias. Yeah.
- [00:32:37.196]Yeah, against me as a candidate as well,
- [00:32:38.880]so like measuring that out is really specific.
- [00:32:43.350]And a lot of how I judged that
- [00:32:46.290]is by looking at what's the institutional work
- [00:32:49.920]that the department's doing, that the college
- [00:32:52.410]or school is doing, and that the university is doing.
- [00:32:55.170]How are they living their own politics?
- [00:32:57.180]And what risks-
- [00:32:58.410]Which is really hard to discern,
- [00:33:00.720]which is really hard to discern.
- [00:33:02.340]It's really hard to discern.
- [00:33:03.798]Because our main window into universities
- [00:33:06.120]is the website, right?
- [00:33:07.710]That's the one place we can go.
- [00:33:09.180]But we don't know if they're living their values.
- [00:33:12.180]We can see a value statement, which-
- [00:33:14.671]Well, I mean-
- [00:33:15.504]Maybe aspirational.
- [00:33:17.100]You can kind of, I tend, when I look at a DEI statement
- [00:33:23.220]for an institution or a department, you can kind of tell
- [00:33:28.200]when it is, we're saying this because it's of the moment,
- [00:33:32.550]and we feel like we have to versus we're saying this,
- [00:33:38.400]and it's actually important, and it's guiding our actions
- [00:33:41.610]'cause you're going to see that threaded throughout.
- [00:33:44.430]Like if they're truly living their values,
- [00:33:45.960]I'm gonna see it in multiple places.
- [00:33:47.490]Yeah, okay.
- [00:33:48.520]Gonna see it in multiple places, and if I don't,
- [00:33:50.700]that's an indicator to me of how serious they are
- [00:33:55.620]about this or not.
- [00:33:57.540]And I want to also be clear about recognizing
- [00:34:01.320]that, regardless of where you are, equity work is hard.
- [00:34:05.640]Yeah.
- [00:34:06.473]Equity work is hard, so I would also not expect
- [00:34:10.050]to see a plethora of evidence, but I would expect
- [00:34:16.110]to see some if, truly, these institutions
- [00:34:20.070]are living those values versus it's just lip service.
- [00:34:26.460]Yeah, and just to add to that,
- [00:34:29.406]some things you can't hide.
- [00:34:31.320]You can't hide my accent, right?
- [00:34:33.930]You have an accent?
- [00:34:35.121]So I've been told.
- [00:34:37.470]Yeah.
- [00:34:38.303]You've been habituated, that's the trick.
- [00:34:41.160]Anyway, you can't hide that.
- [00:34:42.870]You can't hide- I also have an accent, Guy.
- [00:34:44.640]Yes, you do.
- [00:34:45.660]I do, Upper Midwest.
- [00:34:47.010]Yeah.
- [00:34:47.843]Bag, show me your bag.
- [00:34:50.552](Guy laughs)
- [00:34:52.050]I get asked for that. We all, okay.
- [00:34:52.883]We all have accent, but some are-
- [00:34:56.145]You're still special.
- [00:34:56.978]Some are, I feel special, thank you.
- [00:35:00.300]But some of, so some of these things
- [00:35:02.874]are going to be obvious.
- [00:35:04.950]If you're coming from China, people are gonna be able
- [00:35:07.860]to see that you came from China.
- [00:35:10.020]And if you are Black, people will say that you're Black.
- [00:35:14.040]So there are certain things you can't hide.
- [00:35:16.320]You can't walk around, and I would say, at that point,
- [00:35:19.620]lean into it as much as you feel comfortable
- [00:35:21.990]without making it a source for bias, but on the other hand,
- [00:35:25.170]it's gonna come out immediately.
- [00:35:26.880]If you get through the first round,
- [00:35:28.260]everybody's gonna be able to see you.
- [00:35:29.700]Right.
- [00:35:30.533]Because the next round is usually a Zoom interview.
- [00:35:32.190]So you might as well put it out there.
- [00:35:36.128]And the other thing is, for example, with disability
- [00:35:39.810]or for English learners, if you need supports,
- [00:35:46.050]make sure that you at least talk,
- [00:35:48.600]so even if you don't disclose it in a DEI statement,
- [00:35:51.090]please disclose it in the interview process
- [00:35:54.000]if you get to that point, because you want to make sure
- [00:35:57.060]that you're well-situated and not asking for certain things
- [00:35:59.940]that might help you.
- [00:36:00.773]For example, can I activate the closed caption?
- [00:36:03.720]Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.
- [00:36:04.553]And things like that.
- [00:36:05.811]Those are really important tools.
- [00:36:09.600]So that's another thing to think about with the disclosure.
- [00:36:12.930]Now, you don't have to disclose it
- [00:36:14.797]in the DEI statement, but-
- [00:36:16.170]No, and actually, so-
- [00:36:18.660]But you, there is a point
- [00:36:19.920]where that would become more important.
- [00:36:21.840]Yes, and that's one of those things that I would look at
- [00:36:26.430]as I'm trying to get a sense of, if this is something
- [00:36:29.430]that's really important to me and my career-
- [00:36:31.560]Yeah.
- [00:36:33.750]And who I am, then I'm gonna be looking
- [00:36:36.570]at what's already built in.
- [00:36:38.070]Yeah.
- [00:36:38.903]Right, 'cause this is in response
- [00:36:39.736]to systems of oppression.
- [00:36:41.760]And if they have not done some work
- [00:36:44.880]to interrupt their own systems, like that gives me a clue
- [00:36:48.180]of kind of where we're at.
- [00:36:49.200]And it could be that they've focused on other systems.
- [00:36:52.740]You never know kind of the full story, but like,
- [00:36:55.519]if there's an upfront, "Hey, these are the measures
- [00:36:59.460]that we take to ensure that this process is accessible
- [00:37:02.610]and equitable, are there any other adaptations
- [00:37:06.960]that we need to make for you?"
- [00:37:07.980]Like that's really important.
- [00:37:10.200]And if that's not happening, then ask for it.
- [00:37:14.040]Yeah.
- [00:37:14.873]Right, and they, if this is truly something
- [00:37:19.890]that they're living, they'll figure it out.
- [00:37:21.870]Like, that's not on you as a candidate.
- [00:37:25.410]That's really on the institution.
- [00:37:30.330]Yeah, that's my thought. So what are some
- [00:37:33.240]of your advice, when students come to you and say,
- [00:37:35.737]"I'm starting to write this.
- [00:37:37.290]I don't know exactly where to go and how to do this well."
- [00:37:42.210]So I think the biggest thing
- [00:37:43.680]is get as specific as possible.
- [00:37:47.100]Like this should, I think there's two ways to come at this.
- [00:37:51.270]There's the way of, you know, I'm gonna pay this lip service
- [00:37:55.710]and I'm just gonna have it because I have to have it.
- [00:37:59.130]But there's also the possibility to make it very specific
- [00:38:07.230]and very clear to yourself.
- [00:38:10.050]Yeah.
- [00:38:10.883]What your political stance on this is, right?
- [00:38:13.590]Like what, and then when I talk about politics,
- [00:38:15.720]I'm not talking about like-
- [00:38:17.580]Voting politics.
- [00:38:18.780]Voting politics, but I'm talking about
- [00:38:21.810]what are the core values that you yourself structure,
- [00:38:25.890]not only your career, but also your life around,
- [00:38:29.820]and how can you be correct within those politics?
- [00:38:33.270]So it becomes a really interesting exercise
- [00:38:36.810]to think through what is really important to me,
- [00:38:41.070]and how am I living out those values?
- [00:38:42.810]Like how am, I believe in poverty abolition,
- [00:38:46.170]so what am I doing to live that value out?
- [00:38:51.540]One, by only going to Starbucks that have unions.
- [00:38:55.710]You know, like that's one thing that I'm trying to do.
- [00:38:58.980]I believe in public transportation,
- [00:39:01.470]so I ride the bus every day when I possibly can, right?
- [00:39:07.950]So like, what are the lived experiences?
- [00:39:11.400]How am I reorganizing my life, my activity, et cetera,
- [00:39:16.320]in order to be correct within my politics?
- [00:39:20.940]I want to lay those politics out, avoid cliches, like-
- [00:39:24.510]Definitely avoid cliches.
- [00:39:25.710]Avoid the think about this as an invitation
- [00:39:31.110]to really do some thoughtful reflection
- [00:39:34.350]around what does this mean to me?
- [00:39:36.900]Yeah.
- [00:39:38.070]And how is this translating into action?
- [00:39:41.730]And I think that's going to be,
- [00:39:43.530]that's a much more powerful statement.
- [00:39:45.870]Even if it's, holy crap, I've realized
- [00:39:49.110]that I need to do some more stuff, right?
- [00:39:52.560]Like that admission. Yes.
- [00:39:53.880]None of us is doing
- [00:39:54.990]this work. Everything we could, yeah.
- [00:39:57.690]You know, at, there's always ways to be better at it,
- [00:40:04.020]there's always ways...
- [00:40:07.230]Ways to be better, but also ways to learn
- [00:40:09.570]because this, you have to treat this as a learning journey.
- [00:40:13.440]And again, I'm thinking, from my perspective
- [00:40:15.570]and perspective of international students,
- [00:40:18.060]it's a learning journey.
- [00:40:19.500]You're figuring this out.
- [00:40:20.940]What does it look like in schools, K12 schools?
- [00:40:23.550]What does it look like on campus?
- [00:40:25.470]I mean, most people, when they start on this journey
- [00:40:31.170]towards the professorate,
- [00:40:33.870]are not really seeing what's happening in support systems
- [00:40:37.170]for undergraduates or admissions or all of these things.
- [00:40:41.970]There's so many things happening
- [00:40:43.380]that we don't fully understand,
- [00:40:45.810]and we are still exploring them.
- [00:40:49.140]So saying I'm on a journey is perfectly acceptable,
- [00:40:52.573]and showing how you are on a journey,
- [00:40:55.380]how are you trying to learn?
- [00:40:57.481]Well, and I think one other thing
- [00:40:59.430]that I would recommend is, I am really, really fortunate
- [00:41:04.470]to have had some amazing Black women invest a lot of time
- [00:41:08.187]and a lot of energy in me.
- [00:41:09.900]And so every time I'm in a faculty meeting
- [00:41:12.690]and I raise my hand to talk about access and equity
- [00:41:15.060]and what's the actual, like, actionable item around that.
- [00:41:17.820]Like, I am trying to validate the time and energy
- [00:41:20.640]that they have spent in me.
- [00:41:22.200]Emotional.
- [00:41:23.550]Yeah.
- [00:41:24.383]They were so formative.
- [00:41:28.260]But part of that is the urgency, right?
- [00:41:32.230]Yeah. Like the thing
- [00:41:33.690]that I don't necessarily love about, oh, this is my journey.
- [00:41:36.870]Well, are you meandering, or are you at like-
- [00:41:40.680]Yes.
- [00:41:41.730]Are you at a pace?
- [00:41:43.380]Yes, you have to act also.
- [00:41:45.878]You have to- But you have to-
- [00:41:47.074]You have to act, and you have to,
- [00:41:49.740]like demonstrating some level of urgency
- [00:41:54.900]in terms of what are actual reasonable timelines
- [00:41:59.910]to get stuff done in, and what's most important to you?
- [00:42:03.750]Like if you can point to specific projects,
- [00:42:06.270]'cause there's enough DEI work to go around, like-
- [00:42:09.150]Yeah.
- [00:42:10.271]Everyone could have an individual project,
- [00:42:11.104]and we still would not get everything done.
- [00:42:13.522]Yeah.
- [00:42:14.355]But like, how are you thinking about that timescale?
- [00:42:19.110]Because I sometimes worry that, oh, it's my journey,
- [00:42:23.310]and I'm reading these books,
- [00:42:24.510]and I'm going to these conferences, which impacts your life,
- [00:42:27.270]which is great, but chances are, you're already privileged.
- [00:42:30.150]Yeah.
- [00:42:30.983]So how are you doing work to elevate other people's lives,
- [00:42:37.680]other people's experiences,
- [00:42:40.590]who are disadvantaged by these systems?
- [00:42:42.240]How are you interrupting those systems?
- [00:42:44.070]Because this is not problem admiration,
- [00:42:46.080]this is problem solving, and how are you getting there?
- [00:42:49.470]Like that's great, you are learning,
- [00:42:52.500]but you can do two things at the same time.
- [00:42:54.806]We need to-
- [00:42:55.639]Yes, absolutely.
- [00:42:56.472]We need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time,
- [00:42:59.782]and like navigate the guilt of, oh my gosh,
- [00:43:06.450]I didn't know this about this.
- [00:43:07.710]Okay, now you know, move on.
- [00:43:10.050]Let's go 'cause that is, again, like navel gazing.
- [00:43:16.950]All right.
- [00:43:17.783]Wow, I have some feelings.
- [00:43:19.260]Yes, you do.
- [00:43:21.810]Have some feelings.
- [00:43:22.986]Yes, and there's a lot of work to be done.
- [00:43:25.530]There's a lot of work
- [00:43:26.363]to be done. Which is important.
- [00:43:27.270]And education is one of the ways to do that work.
- [00:43:30.230]So we are privileged also with the opportunity to open doors
- [00:43:35.310]and to provide and help the next generation of students
- [00:43:40.410]and scholars and teacher educators, in our case,
- [00:43:45.180]to keep doing the work and to be supported doing the work.
- [00:43:49.710]And that brings me to one piece of advice that I have.
- [00:43:52.620]Share your statement with your mentor or mentors
- [00:43:57.030]and have an opportunity to have a discussion
- [00:43:59.940]to see what are the holes in your statement
- [00:44:02.880]and what are some opportunities.
- [00:44:04.320]It is still your statement,
- [00:44:05.520]so don't write anything you don't believe in.
- [00:44:07.680]Going back to values,
- [00:44:09.000]it doesn't matter what kind of feedback you have,
- [00:44:10.800]eventually, it is your statement.
- [00:44:12.660]Also, you don't want to exaggerate
- [00:44:14.460]or point to things you don't want to do
- [00:44:16.110]because people will expect you to live to those values
- [00:44:19.200]when they hire you.
- [00:44:20.160]So position yourself well to the things you want
- [00:44:23.400]and are capable of doing.
- [00:44:24.940]Exactly, yep, do not set yourself up
- [00:44:29.100]as having a skillset that you don't have.
- [00:44:31.080]Yeah.
- [00:44:31.913]Right, and in seeking out, I mean,
- [00:44:37.110]one of the most transformative things for me
- [00:44:39.270]was going to, paying money to go to workshops
- [00:44:43.680]around systematic change for equity and access,
- [00:44:46.950]where, like, you can study it,
- [00:44:49.830]you can be part of the population,
- [00:44:51.600]but until you have an understanding of what tools are there
- [00:44:55.290]to actually engage and accelerate change,
- [00:45:01.320]like that was game-changer, total game-changer.
- [00:45:05.790]And so, be clear about what your skillset is
- [00:45:09.870]and being thoughtful about, you know, are you foregrounded,
- [00:45:19.560]backgrounded, all of that kind of stuff.
- [00:45:21.540]We've already talked about it. Yeah.
- [00:45:22.710]But, I mean, yeah, so I mean, who doesn't love,
- [00:45:28.951](Guy laughs)
- [00:45:30.180]who doesn't love a good podcast episode
- [00:45:32.040]about the job market that, you know?
- [00:45:34.287]The opportunities out there
- [00:45:36.000]and the opportunities to articulate your thinking,
- [00:45:38.640]but also the hard work
- [00:45:40.680]of actually choosing what to write about.
- [00:45:43.260]Well, and one of the things that I find so fascinating
- [00:45:46.560]about the job process is really how it,
- [00:45:51.810]not necessarily when you're applying
- [00:45:53.370]to like 17 different positions at one time, right?
- [00:45:55.500]Like I don't think that that,
- [00:45:56.970]when you're on kind of an industrial-
- [00:45:58.464]Yeah.
- [00:45:59.297]But when you, there's a privilege around being able
- [00:46:03.270]to have some time when you're just focusing on one or two-
- [00:46:06.810]Yeah.
- [00:46:07.643]Particular applications to really use that as a tool
- [00:46:10.740]to define and refine and revise what's important to you.
- [00:46:17.340]Yeah.
- [00:46:18.330]And so I don't know that grad students who are applying
- [00:46:22.590]to as many jobs as possible are gonna have that privilege.
- [00:46:26.010]But I would say, choose the job you want the most.
- [00:46:28.918]Right, choose-
- [00:46:29.751]And put that work at least in that,
- [00:46:31.260]this is my number one job, put that work in.
- [00:46:34.350]Yes, and thinking about going back to,
- [00:46:36.630]calling back to a previous podcast around, you know,
- [00:46:41.130]having a core set of materials, what is core to you?
- [00:46:43.860]And once you've defined that from that one job
- [00:46:47.010]that you're like, I really want this one,
- [00:46:48.480]I'm gonna throw all my eggs in this basket.
- [00:46:50.520]And then other ones that you're not as interested in,
- [00:46:53.340]you're still gonna put in some work,
- [00:46:54.570]but not as much work as that one, right?
- [00:46:57.270]So think about this as really an opportunity to,
- [00:47:01.500]like I said, define, refine, revise.
- [00:47:06.210]Yeah.
- [00:47:07.043]Who you are and how you live that identity,
- [00:47:09.210]because that's what they're gonna be looking for.
- [00:47:12.330]They're going to be looking for what are the skillsets,
- [00:47:16.080]what are the things that you bring into that position.
- [00:47:19.260]And I think if you can ground it in the action,
- [00:47:24.030]the lived action, that's really important.
- [00:47:27.210]Yeah, all right. So.
- [00:47:29.430]And so.
- [00:47:31.140]And so.
- [00:47:32.220]As people who are not that kind of doctor.
- [00:47:36.480]We are not that kind of doctor, but...
- [00:47:39.682]But we are that kind of doctor.
- [00:47:41.743]We are the, as Josie Fox said,
- [00:47:43.987]"Not the kind that matters."
- [00:47:45.980](Guy laughs)
- [00:47:47.010]You know, there comes a point where, you know,
- [00:47:49.020]she was elderly and was like, "Look, if I'm flatlining,
- [00:47:54.840]you're not gonna help me with your, you know,
- [00:47:57.000]exuberant knowledge of Habermas."
- [00:47:59.430]She wasn't wrong, she wasn't wrong.
- [00:48:01.620]But yeah, that's been "Not That Kind of Doctor."
- [00:48:05.760]Hopefully we were somewhat helpful.
- [00:48:07.230]Hopefully there's some value added.
- [00:48:08.370]If not, at least maybe we're entertaining.
- [00:48:11.430]All right.
- [00:48:12.263]Thumbs up for entertaining.
- [00:48:13.504](bright music)
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