Emily Doskow

Rick Alloway Author

07/06/2023 Added

9 Plays

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Emily Doskow is the Chief Marketing Officer for Leo Burnett, based in Chicago, where she leads new business and growth efforts for the agency's U.S. operations. She is a 2002 graduate of the UNL College of Journalism & Mass Communications where she majored in Advertising and Public Relations. She was recently selected as one of Ad Age's Leading Women of 2023. She spoke with Campus Voices as part of a series on the future of the media and communications industries.

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[00:00:01.740]Welcome to, "Campus Voices," I'm Rick Alloway,
[00:00:04.170]and I thank you for your time.
[00:00:05.910]We are continuing in a series of, "Campus Voices" programs,
[00:00:10.170]dealing with futures.
[00:00:12.090]The futures of the various mass communications fields,
[00:00:15.450]and the industries that are broadcasting
[00:00:18.660]and advertising in sports media
[00:00:20.610]and journalism students will find themselves
[00:00:23.190]working in some time down the road.
[00:00:25.410]And our guest today on, "Campus Voices" is Emily Doskow,
[00:00:28.290]who is a chief marketing Officer for Leo Burnett in Chicago,
[00:00:33.930]and is an alum of the College of Journalism
[00:00:36.480]and Mass Communications.
[00:00:38.310]Graduated in 2002 with her degree
[00:00:40.950]in advertising and public relations.
[00:00:43.230]Emily, welcome, we're glad to have you here today.
[00:00:46.140]Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here.
[00:00:48.840]Let's start with what brought you to UNL and Anderson Hall
[00:00:53.370]and the College of Journalism
[00:00:55.770]and Mass Communications in the first place.
[00:00:56.940]What was your initial goal for a college career?
[00:01:00.720]Absolutely. Well, I grew up in Omaha,
[00:01:03.540]so going to school in Lincoln was, I think,
[00:01:07.110]always a part of my plan.
[00:01:08.700]And it felt like it felt very much
[00:01:12.450]like the right place for me.
[00:01:13.890]And not to mention that I saw a lot of,
[00:01:18.930]had a lot of interest in journalism
[00:01:21.710]and advertising in particular.
[00:01:23.310]And of course, that being a fantastic program,
[00:01:25.140]everything just seemed to fit.
[00:01:26.730]For me, I always wanted to be in a part of business
[00:01:32.550]or a part of the world
[00:01:34.242]that would combine business with creativity.
[00:01:36.390]So, I always enjoyed art growing up.
[00:01:39.360]I liked to get my hands, you know, kind of dirty
[00:01:42.870]with things, explore things.
[00:01:44.490]And so from that standpoint, I knew that I was,
[00:01:47.580]I wanted those two things to combine.
[00:01:50.340]So it made an absolute perfect path
[00:01:52.710]to the College of Journalism.
[00:01:55.050]And I declared advertising as my major,
[00:01:57.510]I think my very first day of new student enrollment.
[00:02:00.390]And I have stuck in the industry,
[00:02:02.760]the creative advertising agency world my entire career.
[00:02:08.750]Do you have specific memories of the College of Journalism
[00:02:11.400]or specific faculty members
[00:02:13.230]that might have impacted your life in a positive way?
[00:02:16.680]Oh, yes, absolutely.
[00:02:18.810]I absolutely, I tell students this all the time,
[00:02:23.910]but I really felt like the college set me up really well
[00:02:27.390]to understand the various departments
[00:02:30.180]and roles that make up an agency.
[00:02:33.286]I took classes in copywriting, I took classes in art,
[00:02:38.130]I took classes in public relations.
[00:02:40.440]I took classes, kind of all, even communications law.
[00:02:44.430]So I felt like I really had a sense
[00:02:46.500]of when I walked in as an intern someplace,
[00:02:49.410]I knew what the departments were.
[00:02:51.678]There were a lot of other people walking in
[00:02:52.530]who had to be explained I think what, you know,
[00:02:56.550]how they worked together and what they did.
[00:02:58.170]And I felt like I got this, which was great.
[00:03:01.980]I also really loved my kind of senior class.
[00:03:10.188]It was called campaigns at the time, but it was the time,
[00:03:12.300]it was really getting a chance
[00:03:13.710]to form a small group together
[00:03:17.280]and work on an actual project,
[00:03:19.140]pitch it to the clients at the end of that project.
[00:03:21.420]And I know nowadays, it does sound like students
[00:03:24.630]get so many more chances to do that
[00:03:26.040]through some of the student run agencies.
[00:03:28.110]But I love that process.
[00:03:29.490]I fell in love with, I mean, truly,
[00:03:31.470]I might say that's actually where I probably fell in love
[00:03:33.900]with pitching new business all the way back then.
[00:03:37.740]So, oh gosh, I loved it.
[00:03:39.780]Stacy James, Phyllis Larsen,
[00:03:42.630]they were some of the people who I do remember.
[00:03:46.350]Good friends and good colleagues,
[00:03:47.700]and they'll be happy to hear that you remember them fondly.
[00:03:50.010]I'll be sure to pass that on to them both.
[00:03:52.710]Your initial internship was with Jay Walter Thompson,
[00:03:55.800]is that correct?
[00:03:57.750]Yes. Well, I should say my very first internship
[00:04:00.630]was actually at Swanson Russell.
[00:04:02.505]Ah, okay.
[00:04:03.338]I went to Brent Schott at the time, who I,
[00:04:07.855]friend of a friend really made an introduction for me,
[00:04:10.890]and I asked him if I could come work at his agency for free.
[00:04:15.440]And he talked to Dave Hansen and they said yes.
[00:04:18.030]So I walked in the doors there and I had a, started working.
[00:04:22.260]After I think only a few short weeks,
[00:04:23.730]they did decide to, to pay me for that which was wonderful.
[00:04:28.196]But I went in with the request just proactively, I guess,
[00:04:33.844]which is what started it all.
[00:04:35.970]And then my first kinda official internship
[00:04:37.890]that I applied to and took
[00:04:40.140]was at J. Walter Thompson after college.
[00:04:43.590]I actually did another one in
[00:04:45.480]while I was a junior at Hill Holliday in Boston.
[00:04:51.140]I missed your-
[00:04:51.973]So I always went somewhere and did something
[00:04:54.456]and always in that creative agency world,
[00:04:57.750]fell in love with it each time a little more.
[00:05:00.150]This is your, if I remember correctly,
[00:05:02.469]your second time at Burnett, correct?
[00:05:04.740]It is, yes, I am a boomerang.
[00:05:08.280](chuckles) Well, it sounds like they're certainly happy
[00:05:09.960]to have you back.
[00:05:11.404]And I see that you were listed this year
[00:05:13.200]among the Ad Age Leading Women of 2023.
[00:05:16.560]Congratulations on that recognition.
[00:05:19.026]Thank you.
[00:05:19.859]Thank you. Now you mentioned being-
[00:05:20.791]It's a wonderful honor,
[00:05:22.110]and I'm just proud to be among that kind of group of women.
[00:05:25.680]It's amazing.
[00:05:27.030]Well, very well deserved.
[00:05:29.340]You joined Burnett as the chief marketing officer
[00:05:32.910]in February of 2021,
[00:05:36.340]so right sort of smack as COVID and the pandemic
[00:05:38.340]were hitting everybody right in the mouth.
[00:05:39.960]How did that baptism by pandemic fire,
[00:05:44.760]reflect on your transition back to the agency
[00:05:47.390]at a weird time for us all?
[00:05:50.460]Yeah, it was definitely strange,
[00:05:52.680]but I think, as you said, strange for everyone.
[00:05:56.400]The good news was that I had been a Burnetter in the past
[00:05:59.700]and the leadership team that I was stepping into, I knew.
[00:06:02.970]Not all of them, but a nice part of them.
[00:06:05.670]So we were kind of the new generation, you know,
[00:06:08.220]kind of coming into the C-suite roles.
[00:06:11.214]And so because of that, I actually felt very comfortable
[00:06:13.710]stepping into that kind of role
[00:06:15.600]and working as a part of that team
[00:06:17.130]during a time when I couldn't go into the office
[00:06:20.310]and couldn't be face-to-face,
[00:06:22.890]The interview process being completely remote.
[00:06:24.870]And probably my first, gosh,
[00:06:28.110]I would say probably four months
[00:06:29.970]before I saw anyone in person for that.
[00:06:33.660]Wow. Well, we all got.
[00:06:35.610]Yeah, it was really interesting.
[00:06:37.800]Now we're in all the time
[00:06:39.630]and the world is a different place.
[00:06:41.640]But especially in advertising,
[00:06:43.860]it's such a collaborative industry.
[00:06:46.410]It's such an in-person, tangible industry.
[00:06:48.480]We still sketch things on paper.
[00:06:50.250]I mean, I've got my Leo Burnett pencil,
[00:06:54.397]but we still will sketch things out.
[00:06:56.263]I'll mark things up on a wall, we'll tack up ideas.
[00:06:58.110]It's very tactile, it's very interactive,
[00:06:59.970]and that's what I love about this industry.
[00:07:02.970]But it, that was definitely an adjustment, you know,
[00:07:06.510]to working remotely during the pandemic.
[00:07:09.180]But like I said, I was lucky.
[00:07:11.160]I spent eight years away and came back
[00:07:13.680]and parts of it feels like you were never gone.
[00:07:16.440]I have an old colleague who,
[00:07:17.940]former colleague I should say,
[00:07:19.200]who would always say the harder I work, the luckier I get.
[00:07:22.470]So you may say you were lucky,
[00:07:23.730]but I know you were working hard to achieve what you have,
[00:07:27.640]and you have been lauded in many an article
[00:07:28.650]that I've seen online as for your strong ability
[00:07:32.100]to pitch well and your strong closing rate.
[00:07:35.460]And you had a banner first year or so returning to Chicago
[00:07:39.300]with lots of new clients.
[00:07:40.500]And how, at what point, you mentioned pitching already,
[00:07:44.010]at what point in your career
[00:07:45.639]coming through the College of Journalism
[00:07:47.640]and the advertising public relations sequence,
[00:07:49.470]and then moving on,
[00:07:50.850]at what point did the idea or the concept of pitching
[00:07:53.550]start to resonate with you as, "Wow, I like this,
[00:07:57.060]this is challenging and I'm pretty good at it."
[00:07:59.880]Yeah, so my internship at JWT,
[00:08:04.440]I was put on an account as an account management intern
[00:08:09.540]on a piece of business.
[00:08:10.530]It was Western Union.
[00:08:11.700]And then I also was kind of dual reporting
[00:08:14.880]into the head of new business,
[00:08:17.010]and she ran all the pitches at the agency.
[00:08:19.860]So I got, as an intern, firsthand experience
[00:08:24.660]to the most senior leaders of the agency
[00:08:26.610]sitting around the biggest boardroom table,
[00:08:29.880]pitching massive, massive pieces of business.
[00:08:32.730]And I was doing everything from getting the food
[00:08:37.230]to probably, I shouldn't say decorating the room,
[00:08:40.440]but decorating the room in terms of focus group analysis
[00:08:44.250]and reference points for the meetings.
[00:08:47.310]And I learned so much,
[00:08:48.810]and I think that's probably where I got the bug.
[00:08:52.470]About halfway through my career
[00:08:54.450]after being in account management,
[00:08:56.310]which I do feel like gave me a really great sense
[00:08:58.740]of how the client relationships really run in the long haul.
[00:09:03.420]It was a really great foundation.
[00:09:05.340]But I got the chance to move over into new business
[00:09:09.210]and business development full-time, and I took it.
[00:09:11.880]It was probably the riskiest decision I made in my career.
[00:09:15.150]You go from being a fully funded employee
[00:09:18.930]in terms of your client, you know,
[00:09:20.910]covering your hours and your time
[00:09:23.100]to being completely tied to what growth you bring in.
[00:09:26.814]But I absolutely love it.
[00:09:30.630]It is definitely a little bit of trial by fire
[00:09:35.820]in this kind of world.
[00:09:37.140]But it's fun, it's vibrant,
[00:09:39.270]it's constantly, constantly just really, really fast paced
[00:09:43.710]and really competitive.
[00:09:44.730]And I guess maybe being a Husker
[00:09:47.700]probably had something to do with my competitive nature.
[00:09:51.000]You probably would appreciate our current tagline then,
[00:09:53.640]which is in our grit the glory.
[00:09:55.530]So that's, we just, we get down in it
[00:09:57.810]and get dirty and make cool stuff as a result of that.
[00:10:01.430]Yeah. Yeah. Love it.
[00:10:03.930]Because you've referenced the liking the creative
[00:10:06.900]and the collaborative side of things,
[00:10:08.970]tell folks in an agency the size of Burnett,
[00:10:13.110]are there still opportunities for you
[00:10:15.300]on the new business recruitment side
[00:10:16.910]to still get involved with creative,
[00:10:19.680]or are you pretty much handing things off
[00:10:21.660]once the account gets landed?
[00:10:25.883]So the job of my business development team
[00:10:30.728]would be to vet any new opportunities
[00:10:32.550]that might come into the agency while at the same time
[00:10:35.520]proactively prospecting for the kinds of clients
[00:10:37.800]we'd like to bring to the agency.
[00:10:40.410]And we look at a variety of factors
[00:10:43.440]in terms of fit for the agency's expertise, size,
[00:10:47.820]size of the prize and well, so their creative, you know,
[00:10:51.090]creative appetite.
[00:10:52.140]Are they gonna make the kind of work
[00:10:53.850]that we as an agency wanna make and put out into the world?
[00:10:57.120]So, we vet those opportunities.
[00:10:59.070]And then when it looks like there's an opportunity
[00:11:02.670]to move into what would be kinda a formal pitch process,
[00:11:06.060]although sometimes we can get around that, which is ideal,
[00:11:09.557]but if it's gonna be a formal pitch process
[00:11:11.700]where we are competing against other creative agencies,
[00:11:15.210]what my team will do is put together the team
[00:11:17.760]that would be cast and assigned to doing that.
[00:11:20.310]And then we basically are their coaches
[00:11:24.123]and their essentially kind of doing the work of the pitch,
[00:11:27.690]working right alongside them to make it happen.
[00:11:30.581]What clients often forget
[00:11:32.760]and students may not yet have an understanding of,
[00:11:35.700]is that everybody we're pulling in
[00:11:38.040]to pitch a new piece of business has a day job.
[00:11:41.520]They already work on a piece of business,
[00:11:43.830]they are, their plate is full.
[00:11:45.720]So what my team does is basically do that work,
[00:11:49.050]kind of with them, but on their behalf.
[00:11:51.360]And then we set them up for success,
[00:11:53.400]helping script the talking points,
[00:11:54.900]helping prepare all of the materials all throughout
[00:11:58.170]what can oftentimes be maybe a three to four month process,
[00:12:01.950]sometimes much longer, sometimes shorter.
[00:12:04.472]But what we do, that whole process
[00:12:07.860]is everything from developing a relationship,
[00:12:10.890]so that's the account leaders kind of role and job,
[00:12:13.710]but we help them find and connect those relationships
[00:12:16.170]using everything from LinkedIn conferences,
[00:12:19.860]anything we might know to get to know
[00:12:21.750]and build a relationship over that time.
[00:12:24.810]We use, I bring in this strategists
[00:12:27.300]and we're helping them develop the strategy for the brand
[00:12:29.760]and then the creative team
[00:12:31.020]working together with the strategy team
[00:12:32.490]in terms of developing the idea.
[00:12:33.750]Clients wanna see spec work,
[00:12:35.130]they wanna see the ideas we have, so we're creating that.
[00:12:38.160]And then we're pitching that in the most powerful way
[00:12:40.890]where we can bring some real emotion into the room
[00:12:43.736]for the pitch.
[00:12:46.290]So in a lot of ways, you're doing an entire piece of work
[00:12:49.710]that could take an agency months and months,
[00:12:53.010]maybe a year to do in what is a very truncated timeline,
[00:12:56.670]so you are absolutely touching the creative process
[00:12:59.880]and really the entirety of the agency.
[00:13:02.640]Reason I ask 'cause I know a lot of,
[00:13:04.740]and perhaps you're this way yourself,
[00:13:06.090]a lot of students enter our school looking at
[00:13:09.390]and knowing advertising or broadcasting or journalism
[00:13:12.972]by the finished product and have little to no experience
[00:13:16.560]with all of the research and the work and the time
[00:13:20.268]and the group effort that went into
[00:13:22.440]to creating that Super Bowl spot
[00:13:25.200]that wins all of the great advertising awards down the line.
[00:13:29.010]And so that's always been part of our goal
[00:13:31.440]is to teach 'em that backstory,
[00:13:33.030]to get them up to where they are creating that fun stuff.
[00:13:35.310]And a lot of the students,
[00:13:36.450]what they wanna do is make stuff
[00:13:37.740]and are not aware of all the research that goes into it
[00:13:40.560]and the client development and the media buying
[00:13:42.720]and all the other things that are incorporated with that.
[00:13:45.810]So, I know a lot of 'em want to do creative when they leave,
[00:13:49.500]and so I know it must be rewarding to you
[00:13:51.653]to still be able to have a hand in that
[00:13:52.860]and still be able to dabble in
[00:13:54.360]all those kinds of things. Oh absolutely.
[00:13:55.280]It would be, I think, very dull
[00:13:57.210]to only be stuck in one small slice of that pie.
[00:14:00.840]Yeah. I think agencies used to be a lot more siloed.
[00:14:05.520]There used to be a, when I started advertising,
[00:14:07.350]there was a physical pouch, plastic pouch
[00:14:10.470]that you routed an ad, it's called a print ad,
[00:14:14.820]and it physically went from one department
[00:14:16.710]to the other to the other.
[00:14:17.970]There's no such worlds like that anymore.
[00:14:20.250]It's completely collaborative.
[00:14:21.690]It is people sitting together, working together,
[00:14:24.990]collaborating, even if it's digitally and remote
[00:14:27.240]through all of our collaboration tools.
[00:14:29.340]So I would say that there's not a person.
[00:14:31.740]If your job sits within a creative advertising agency,
[00:14:35.610]creativity is your job
[00:14:37.110]no matter what part of the business you touch.
[00:14:39.120]I like to hear that.
[00:14:39.953]And I think you'll be happy to hear then
[00:14:41.070]that more and more of our classes
[00:14:42.983]are dealing with that collaboration aspect as well.
[00:14:45.180]It's the reason why we have
[00:14:46.470]the Jacht student advertising agency
[00:14:49.200]and Buoy, our newest version of it,
[00:14:51.846]which deals with nonprofit clients,
[00:14:53.100]but all of our courses are dealing with
[00:14:55.559]student interaction, student critiquing,
[00:14:58.110]student workshopping of each other's work,
[00:14:59.910]and working in small groups collaboratively
[00:15:01.920]to produce content.
[00:15:03.360]Because we're aware too that that's likely to be
[00:15:05.880]the kind of professional setting
[00:15:07.680]in which they'll work once they graduate.
[00:15:10.680]Yep, yep.
[00:15:12.150]So what part of the, just personally,
[00:15:14.730]what is the most rewarding part of knowing
[00:15:17.190]you deliver just a slam dunk pitch?
[00:15:23.430]To be honest, to deliver what we set out to do.
[00:15:26.430]There's never enough time and there's never,
[00:15:30.116]you can kind of keep working every moment and every second
[00:15:33.360]because of how much you're trying to squeeze
[00:15:35.716]into that process.
[00:15:36.810]But if we set, if we walk into that pitch room
[00:15:40.800]and deliver the presentation we intended to
[00:15:43.422]and push the work is where we feel proud of it,
[00:15:46.620]whether we're chosen or not, that to me is a huge win
[00:15:49.920]and something I really celebrate.
[00:15:51.450]So I always tell my team, celebrate
[00:15:53.850]that you did what you set out to do.
[00:15:56.640]The decision may not be in your hands, but celebrate that.
[00:15:59.160]Now, of course there's nothing better
[00:16:01.470]than a phone call you get.
[00:16:03.510]Nothing better than the phone call.
[00:16:05.670]But you know what, that's also,
[00:16:06.720]if you're a competitive person
[00:16:08.689]or you like kind of the ups and downs and the sprints,
[00:16:12.660]it's a wonderful part of the business to be in
[00:16:15.286]because you get that high.
[00:16:19.140]There's certainly something to be said
[00:16:21.483]for doing work that ends up in a Super Bowl
[00:16:23.013]or even ends up on TV or a digital video.
[00:16:24.960]You produce it, you create this beautiful piece
[00:16:27.420]that you crafted and you put your soul into
[00:16:30.690]and to see it out in the world,
[00:16:32.070]there's a high that comes with that.
[00:16:35.220]But it's certainly,
[00:16:36.450]I don't know that it's the same level
[00:16:38.130]as bringing in what is like a huge piece of business.
[00:16:41.668]Maybe that's unfair.
[00:16:43.710]But there's people who work in digital
[00:16:46.800]where the job is never done.
[00:16:49.470]You never quite get that big moment in the same way.
[00:16:52.980]However you're working in, you know,
[00:16:55.326]maybe more of the front lines of the technical edge
[00:16:58.680]of the industry that's evolving at light speed.
[00:17:01.740]Not that we don't touch that,
[00:17:03.030]we certainly do plenty of digital and social work as well.
[00:17:05.970]But it's, I think there's different kinds
[00:17:08.010]of momentum and energy.
[00:17:09.390]It's a really energetic industry,
[00:17:11.310]but what's your kind of flavor of it
[00:17:13.380]can help place I think the parts of the industry
[00:17:16.170]that are the best fit for each student.
[00:17:19.063]I value the fact that you said
[00:17:20.356]whether or not you get the business,
[00:17:22.227]you take great pride in knowing you did the best you could.
[00:17:25.680]And not to tie an Nebraska football analogy into this,
[00:17:29.250]but Coach Osborne I know took greatest pride sometimes
[00:17:33.330]in the way his team played in games they lost.
[00:17:36.630]Because he said, you played beautifully today
[00:17:39.030]and there's only so much that you are in control of,
[00:17:41.520]and the rest of it is how much the other team does,
[00:17:44.340]in this case, the other agencies
[00:17:45.540]you might be competing against for a bid for a client.
[00:17:49.500]So I think that's an important part for students to realize
[00:17:51.780]is when you've done good work,
[00:17:54.180]that's the best you can hope for.
[00:17:55.620]And the rest of it's to some degree
[00:17:57.240]out of your hands after that.
[00:17:58.770]Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:18:00.577]So in the 20 plus years since you left the campus here,
[00:18:05.550]how have you seen your industry change,
[00:18:07.463]what's different now about the way you do your work
[00:18:10.650]compared to when you first graduated?
[00:18:15.526]I think I touched on one of the pieces before,
[00:18:17.010]which is just the level of integration
[00:18:19.980]that exists in the way we work.
[00:18:22.890]But I would also say in the kind of work that we do.
[00:18:26.310]One example might be that commerce used to be
[00:18:29.910]a part of the consumer journey.
[00:18:32.449]It used to be we talked about the point of purchase.
[00:18:35.521]Not that there isn't a point of purchase these days,
[00:18:37.770]but it can come at any point in that journey.
[00:18:40.650]And it can come on many, many different channels
[00:18:42.810]and many touch points,
[00:18:43.740]it'll driving directly to commerce
[00:18:46.950]has now come to the center of, I think the puzzle for us
[00:18:51.600]rather than become a piece of it or a driving endpoint.
[00:18:54.960]So that's something we talk a lot about.
[00:18:56.804]One of the things a bit related to that,
[00:19:00.060]and there's always a debate in the industry,
[00:19:04.020]a bit of whether you should work at or the future
[00:19:08.130]is surrounded with big holding company agencies.
[00:19:11.310]Obviously I have a bit of a bias at this point in time
[00:19:13.860]or these independent shops.
[00:19:15.900]There's constantly, constantly new small agencies popping up
[00:19:19.740]with a couple people who have started and spun off.
[00:19:22.776]That exists quite a bit.
[00:19:26.220]And then there's even, let's take that even further
[00:19:28.260]to in-house agencies.
[00:19:29.640]For a while, you know, it was, agencies are dead,
[00:19:32.850]everybody's going in-house,
[00:19:34.230]they're all creating their own in-house creative teams.
[00:19:37.830]I think the pendulum has swung constantly
[00:19:40.560]throughout my career frankly back and forth.
[00:19:44.160]But where I'm seeing now
[00:19:46.110]is that because of that kind of integration, I think clients
[00:19:50.490]that's needed across all those touch points,
[00:19:52.290]I think clients are, even if they've built
[00:19:53.820]their own internal creative departments,
[00:19:55.980]they're certainly looking for partners
[00:19:57.270]and they're looking for experts along that.
[00:19:59.190]So I don't think agencies are going away
[00:20:01.080]and I think even some of the bigger agencies
[00:20:03.330]and holding companies are practically
[00:20:06.005]really well placed actually
[00:20:06.838]to deliver all of the spectrum of services
[00:20:09.660]and touchpoints in an integrated fashion.
[00:20:12.330]So, integration's been a word forever.
[00:20:14.490]It's been part of what we talk about
[00:20:15.690]probably since I was in school.
[00:20:17.490]But it's definitely not going away from that.
[00:20:21.967]We're not going towards specialists,
[00:20:23.100]we're going toward more integration.
[00:20:24.567]And I think students coming out of the college as well,
[00:20:27.439]being able to be experts in a wide variety of things,
[00:20:31.400]so that you can understand
[00:20:32.580]the totality of a consumer experience
[00:20:34.290]rather than a particular moment with it is,
[00:20:37.470]will be incredibly valuable.
[00:20:40.500]Since you joined,
[00:20:42.178]we touched on the pandemic a little bit here
[00:20:43.011]and the fact that you joined again, rejoined Burnett,
[00:20:46.440]right as the pandemic was roaring at full speed
[00:20:48.900]in February of 2021.
[00:20:51.450]While I think a lot of us would say,
[00:20:52.980]we wish we'd never lived through it,
[00:20:54.300]there may be in some respects,
[00:20:55.950]some value that came out of that that time.
[00:20:58.680]I know for those of us,
[00:20:59.550]we've spent 18 months teaching online entirely
[00:21:02.130]before we were able to finally get back in
[00:21:03.810]and meet a class in person again.
[00:21:06.150]So, in retrospect, do you think there were some positives
[00:21:09.210]that came out of that learning experience
[00:21:11.310]from the way we all did business during the pandemic?
[00:21:13.710]And if so, what?
[00:21:16.410]Yeah, I think my industry in particular,
[00:21:19.230]there was a lot of question marks
[00:21:20.520]over whether we could be as creative remotely and separated.
[00:21:26.138]And I had a lot of trepidation over it,
[00:21:29.040]but I think learned and proved that you could,
[00:21:31.680]you absolutely could.
[00:21:33.600]Frankly there was some of the best creative work
[00:21:35.820]put out into the world,
[00:21:37.170]I think because a well-defined problem
[00:21:40.281]creates really great creative solutions.
[00:21:45.000]And during the pandemic, the problems were so clear to us.
[00:21:48.300]What we needed to solve.
[00:21:49.320]It wasn't just, let's go get brand awareness
[00:21:51.720]for X, Y, Z company
[00:21:53.550]that we've probably done a million times,
[00:21:54.990]or let's recruit newer, younger customers, you know, fine.
[00:21:59.070]But we could now get into the mix with our clients,
[00:22:02.100]especially those where we had really great relationships
[00:22:04.732]and be able to be business partners in figuring out
[00:22:08.220]how you remotely get around problems
[00:22:11.070]that none of us had faced before.
[00:22:12.960]And if you're truly in the creative industry,
[00:22:17.010]that's creative problem solving, it's what we do.
[00:22:19.620]So, we did things like during the pandemic
[00:22:24.030]we were working for Wingstop.
[00:22:25.770]And Wingstop obviously, our primary product is wings,
[00:22:33.404]and there was a chicken wing short shortage.
[00:22:36.090]You couldn't get chicken wings.
[00:22:37.350]Their entire business was about to tank.
[00:22:40.500]And rather than saying, well, that's my ad agency,
[00:22:43.830]that's my comms firm, they brought us into that situation,
[00:22:48.930]talked a lot about it.
[00:22:49.800]We launched Thighstop.
[00:22:51.780]And it was, why not?
[00:22:54.060]Let's do thighs.
[00:22:55.080]Your company is really based on having all these flavors.
[00:22:58.260]It's not really based on,
[00:22:59.220]it has to be on this particular part of the chicken,
[00:23:01.290]let's do it.
[00:23:02.730]And we hacked all of the company's assets,
[00:23:06.159]so that the bag that it comes in had the tape,
[00:23:09.450]it was quite fun,
[00:23:11.580]but had tape right over the top of the Wingstop logo
[00:23:13.920]that said Thighstop.
[00:23:15.360]We used the same commercials
[00:23:17.070]'cause you couldn't go shoot new commercials
[00:23:18.630]in the same way.
[00:23:19.463]And we bleeped out Wingstop for Thighstop.
[00:23:21.750]It was funny, it was entertaining
[00:23:24.330]and it solved a major business problem for them.
[00:23:26.370]And those are the kinds of challenges,
[00:23:27.750]I don't think, or work that you probably
[00:23:30.810]would not have been able to do or launch
[00:23:32.400]if you weren't faced with those kinds of business problems.
[00:23:34.710]So, it was fun.
[00:23:36.180]I learned that good relationships
[00:23:39.630]stand the test of those kinds of challenges.
[00:23:43.740]Good relationships seem to be be the foundation
[00:23:45.840]of so much of what we do here.
[00:23:47.280]And we try to tell our students
[00:23:49.050]that building their relationships, building their own brand,
[00:23:52.590]but also building the connections they have with the people
[00:23:54.690]that they meet at every step of their education
[00:23:57.090]is both critical to moving forward,
[00:23:59.250]but also just part of the joy of doing what we do.
[00:24:02.576]Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:24:05.866]So today, what do you think are some of the biggest forces
[00:24:09.210]driving change in the advertising industry
[00:24:12.987]and what should students be most aware of?
[00:24:17.220]Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up AI.
[00:24:20.070]It is absolutely a topic of conversation
[00:24:23.310]at about every boardroom table and a client conversation
[00:24:30.030]that we have these days.
[00:24:32.573]There's a lot of talk about
[00:24:35.820]how that may impact the industry,
[00:24:37.740]how it may impact creativity.
[00:24:39.720]I think I certainly look at it as something
[00:24:42.660]that one student should be diving in a hundred percent
[00:24:46.350]into seeing and to understanding
[00:24:48.120]how that can be used from a business perspective.
[00:24:51.810]For us it's a, I view it as an accelerant,
[00:24:54.840]it helps us get to things faster.
[00:24:58.230]It's helps you break white paper.
[00:25:01.050]Sometimes that's the hardest part of getting started.
[00:25:05.520]But I think the thing to keep in mind,
[00:25:07.860]there's a lot of trepidation
[00:25:09.270]over clients will just end up using AI
[00:25:12.960]and end up using agencies less
[00:25:14.460]or we're all gonna get taken over by robots, I suppose.
[00:25:18.390]But I think it's the human ingenuity combined with AI,
[00:25:22.440]that's where the real power is.
[00:25:24.821]It's like the world is full of mediocre ads.
[00:25:30.120]It's gonna take humans with that track record of creativity
[00:25:34.410]and understanding how to generate it
[00:25:36.655]plus AI to breakthrough.
[00:25:38.190]So, I think that that's certainly on the edge right now,
[00:25:43.410]and it's evolving at this incredibly rapid pace.
[00:25:45.930]So I'm probably saying something
[00:25:48.510]that students maybe are more apt to do
[00:25:50.802]than even people in business these days.
[00:25:54.066]But play with it, use it, learn as much as you can.
[00:25:58.230]You'll be coming into this
[00:25:59.340]with all of that at your fingertips
[00:26:01.980]versus probably learning it later in our careers like I did.
[00:26:06.619]So, I think it'll be an amazing, amazing road.
[00:26:09.570]Being able to use AI as a starting point,
[00:26:11.610]but not the ending point,
[00:26:13.230]I think is where we're looking at it a lot
[00:26:15.653]from our newsroom capacity here in the college as well.
[00:26:18.419]That if you can automate
[00:26:19.740]some of the boilerplate stock market stories
[00:26:23.580]that have to get generated every day
[00:26:25.080]and then free up your reporters
[00:26:26.430]to go work on more in-depth reports,
[00:26:29.160]or if you can create the first piece of broadcast copy
[00:26:32.790]and then really go in and hone it,
[00:26:35.673]spend your time polishing, that seems to make more sense.
[00:26:38.580]We're certainly encouraging our students
[00:26:39.960]to do the same thing. Yeah, add the craftmanship.
[00:26:41.792]Yep. Yep, yep. Absolutely.
[00:26:43.170]I think the biggest mistake that any of us could make
[00:26:45.390]would be to try to ignore it
[00:26:46.440]because it's obviously not going to go away,
[00:26:48.120]so how do we make the best use of it?
[00:26:50.700]What seems to be true
[00:26:51.533]of every new technology change we've had along the line,
[00:26:54.960]so this is the latest one perhaps.
[00:26:56.940]But yeah, I just heard another piece this morning about
[00:26:59.580]the potential dangers of AI
[00:27:01.590]and we're all going to lose our jobs and we'll have to-
[00:27:05.195]Right, right.
[00:27:06.028]Yeah, it's a bit fascinating
[00:27:08.430]that still is as loud of a conversation as it is
[00:27:13.433]given how much it's already been used for so long
[00:27:17.040]in supply chain logistics and other aspects of business.
[00:27:21.270]But now that it's become really crossing all sectors,
[00:27:24.870]crossing all types of jobs,
[00:27:27.840]now we're having these kinds of conversations.
[00:27:32.041]So I think students are so well poised
[00:27:35.910]to really be experts in that, you know,
[00:27:39.210]as well as being experts in generational knowledge too.
[00:27:44.520]There's a social fluency that exceeds with every generation,
[00:27:48.780]with every probably with every new graduating class,
[00:27:51.452]I imagine, that just truly is incredibly valuable to me
[00:27:56.490]and to the agency even coming in at that entry level.
[00:28:02.235]So, I think just being able to add strategic thought
[00:28:07.530]to how you can bring that forward
[00:28:09.210]on behalf of a team or a client is just incredibly valuable
[00:28:14.970]and something that students should always keep in mind.
[00:28:17.280]I haven't seen a brief from a client
[00:28:19.920]or a prospective client yet
[00:28:21.270]that's not targeting the next generation.
[00:28:23.850]And that's wanting to reach younger
[00:28:25.860]and younger and younger consumers.
[00:28:27.960]And they, I think it's important that in our industry
[00:28:31.020]that is certainly while we can all put ourselves
[00:28:34.590]in the shoes of another audience that isn't us
[00:28:37.733]or not in our day-to-day lives,
[00:28:40.800]students have such a great wonderful advantage
[00:28:43.781]in that them being exactly among the many of our targets.
[00:28:47.160]Yeah, not that long ago,
[00:28:48.390]that same argument was being used for students
[00:28:50.790]that understood social media. Right, exactly, exactly.
[00:28:53.956]That older folks running the agencies or broadcast shops
[00:28:56.910]or journalism organizations were saying,
[00:28:59.280]please come in here and teach us how to use Twitter
[00:29:01.350]because we don't get it, but we know you do
[00:29:03.540]and we need to be where you are.
[00:29:06.757]Yep. So, same argument.
[00:29:08.005]Yep. Yeah, I remember taking a class
[00:29:11.583]in coding a basic website,
[00:29:13.470]I think in the basement of the building
[00:29:16.710]and I'm not sure I ever exactly used that,
[00:29:19.980]but I probably got leapfrogged into and never having to,
[00:29:23.700]but I distinctly remember it. Yeah.
[00:29:26.460]Well, AI is actually taking over some of those,
[00:29:29.010]the precursory starts of generating webpages
[00:29:32.220]and HTML at this point.
[00:29:33.480]I've seen some examples where people
[00:29:35.430]just plugged in some basics and said, generate a website,
[00:29:38.220]and boy they came up with some not bad examples
[00:29:41.430]to then go and tweak what we
[00:29:42.990]were just talking about. Right, not bad, not good.
[00:29:44.310]Yep, yep.
[00:29:45.870]Not good, but not bad. (chuckles)
[00:29:47.310]I teach every once a year our section
[00:29:50.520]of our large ethics course that you had when you were here,
[00:29:53.916]Media Ethics in Society,
[00:29:54.960]and just finished that in the spring semester here,
[00:29:58.410]so it all was sort of top of mind to me to ask you,
[00:30:00.870]what do you see as some of the major ethical challenges
[00:30:04.320]that your industry's going through right now?
[00:30:06.420]Obviously AI is a good leaping off point onto that,
[00:30:09.960]but what are some of the other things
[00:30:11.070]that you and your colleagues wrestle with
[00:30:13.920]in terms of the ethics of the advertising
[00:30:15.690]and public relations industries?
[00:30:18.720]Yeah. In the advertising industry,
[00:30:21.270]I think AI is certainly at the top of that list
[00:30:25.200]and what, there's just not a, there's not clear answers.
[00:30:29.130]I think a lot of times people are looking for the company
[00:30:32.520]to have a stance or a point of view
[00:30:34.410]on those kinds of things from the start.
[00:30:35.850]And I think it's fair to say right now
[00:30:38.070]a lot of that is being sorted out as we're in,
[00:30:41.640]we're building the plane as we're flying it,
[00:30:43.590]so it's certainly going to be, I guess, shades of gray,
[00:30:50.010]or at least having your own personal views on all of it,
[00:30:53.010]working with artistic talent,
[00:30:55.920]whether that's voiceover talent, illustrators,
[00:30:59.190]artists, that kind of thing.
[00:31:00.630]There's definitely some points of view
[00:31:03.111]on when it comes to generative AI imaging
[00:31:06.253]and even video creation
[00:31:08.461]where there's a lot of conversations around that
[00:31:12.780]and there's differing points of view
[00:31:15.270]that I think I still frankly need to dive into on a regular,
[00:31:20.730]much more regular basis
[00:31:21.990]and be a part of that ongoing conversation.
[00:31:26.490]I think the other part of the business,
[00:31:29.670]I'm not sure if this answers your question directly
[00:31:31.500]in terms of ethics, but it's something I think about a lot
[00:31:34.230]is when it comes to conflict,
[00:31:37.530]agencies used to be very much, you had one client in CPG
[00:31:42.150]or in a certain category of food and beverage.
[00:31:43.920]You had another client in automotive,
[00:31:45.970]you had another client in tech or telecom,
[00:31:49.543]and you just had one of each.
[00:31:51.539]And that's the way the world worked.
[00:31:53.434]And I think in this, we're definitely moving
[00:31:55.590]toward a world that is much more open.
[00:32:02.170]And I think probably in the last year,
[00:32:03.870]all of the contracts I've negotiated have been,
[00:32:06.360]we can't have the same people working on competitive
[00:32:09.927]in clients and industries, but there's less of a,
[00:32:11.530]we're being viewed much more like consulting firms
[00:32:14.040]where we can have multiple clients in a similar space,
[00:32:18.570]but still be able to keep our people separate.
[00:32:21.450]And we do rely quite a bit on people,
[00:32:24.450]processes that are being built
[00:32:26.723]to make sure that ethically and operationally,
[00:32:31.860]we're really creating a level of separation
[00:32:34.350]that our clients expect that we're contracted to,
[00:32:37.920]but also that makes them feel comfortable,
[00:32:40.080]makes 'em feel protected.
[00:32:42.180]Okay. No, I think that fits very, very well
[00:32:45.519]into what I was thinking of for that answer.
[00:32:46.380]So, and lemme bring up another one
[00:32:48.180]because it was specifically referenced
[00:32:50.699]by one of the group projects in my class this past spring.
[00:32:55.164]They chose to deal with the situations
[00:32:56.850]where clients or brands
[00:32:59.520]choose to get political in their thinking,
[00:33:02.160]whether it's throwing their weight
[00:33:04.110]behind student athletes kneeling on the sidelines
[00:33:07.800]or getting involved with the Black Lives Matter movement
[00:33:11.100]or with LGBTQ issues.
[00:33:14.268]And I thought very thoughtfully weighed the pros and cons
[00:33:17.010]and the potential risks for brands getting involved.
[00:33:21.060]And I know it's a brand by brand situation
[00:33:22.890]and then it's whatever the client needs.
[00:33:25.909]But in general, have you and the agency
[00:33:28.258]had some general thinking about
[00:33:30.000]whether or not that's a good idea to get socially involved.
[00:33:33.990]Yeah, this is a huge topic, especially right now
[00:33:38.415]given what happened with Anheuser-Busch and Budweiser.
[00:33:43.351]And like you said,
[00:33:44.940]multiple examples over the past several years.
[00:33:48.210]So it's probably a conversation we have with some clients
[00:33:51.951]on probably a daily basis.
[00:33:55.830]And what you said is absolutely correct,
[00:33:57.990]it is a case by case basis.
[00:34:00.030]What we try to do is really help our clients
[00:34:01.980]understand the purpose of behind the brand
[00:34:06.300]and therefore what are the actions you take?
[00:34:09.000]What is the behavior of the brand?
[00:34:11.760]It's very easy to look at what is our tagline,
[00:34:14.970]what is our campaign?
[00:34:16.530]But if you have a good tagline and a good campaign,
[00:34:18.960]it actually indicates the behavior.
[00:34:21.630]So if it makes sense to act in a certain way
[00:34:27.180]or to be a part of something, your brand,
[00:34:31.080]if you've done the strategic work,
[00:34:32.760]I think at the level companies should,
[00:34:37.110]it should steer you pretty quickly and you should be able
[00:34:39.900]to at least have a really good, solid, fruitful conversation
[00:34:44.130]with the business partners around the table about
[00:34:46.530]whether that's the right solution for the company.
[00:34:49.830]Certainly, inclusivity DE&I, we look at training,
[00:34:56.370]even going through trainings together with our clients
[00:34:58.950]in a lot of that, so that we're looking
[00:35:01.920]not just at how that relates to talent
[00:35:04.680]brought into the company and opportunities for talent,
[00:35:06.540]but also how it's reflective in the work that we're doing
[00:35:09.720]and in terms of all the partners, vendors,
[00:35:12.150]and people involved in making the work
[00:35:14.550]and how we're supporting the future
[00:35:16.531]in all of those areas as well.
[00:35:18.570]So absolutely an ongoing dialogue and case by case. Yeah.
[00:35:26.640]Shifting gears a bit, what would you suggest
[00:35:28.500]as the model of the future employee in your business,
[00:35:32.600]in your area that we should be coaching our students
[00:35:35.700]to sort of gear toward?
[00:35:38.587]What kinds of things do they need to know?
[00:35:39.420]What kinds of behaviors should they model?
[00:35:41.550]What kinds of of attitudes should they have
[00:35:43.320]coming into a new job?
[00:35:45.870]Yeah, curiosity.
[00:35:47.790]Curiosity, being absolutely inquisitive.
[00:35:50.700]Know what you feel passionate about.
[00:35:55.080]Know whether something tugs at your heartstrings
[00:36:00.750]or pulls you towards somewhere or how you react to it.
[00:36:04.290]I think this is still very much an evocative
[00:36:06.600]and emotional industry.
[00:36:08.610]We are trying to do that and so know know what drives you
[00:36:12.510]and know what drives,
[00:36:13.890]so you can have an intelligent conversation about that.
[00:36:18.000]And be inquisitive about every, about others.
[00:36:20.700]How do you feel about this, how do you react to that?
[00:36:22.890]This is, advertising is part psychology in most days.
[00:36:28.410]And so having, being actually a good surveyor
[00:36:33.000]of life around you and not being afraid
[00:36:35.400]to go and ask people questions about
[00:36:36.810]what they think about something.
[00:36:39.120]I think there can be a propensity,
[00:36:41.610]especially as I see younger talent coming into the agency,
[00:36:45.661]to perhaps sit more quietly or take it in,
[00:36:50.700]be questioned whether they have the knowledge
[00:36:53.430]to be able to weigh in on a strategic conversation.
[00:36:56.010]And the reality is a lot of what we do,
[00:36:59.580]especially when it comes to big brands
[00:37:01.200]we all know, Coca-Cola, Samsung, Proctor and Gamble,
[00:37:04.740]you know the brands,
[00:37:06.090]you know you've interacted in the in that world,
[00:37:08.790]and so if you have a question,
[00:37:10.620]if you ask a question in the right way,
[00:37:12.690]that can drive a whole conversation around the table
[00:37:15.840]with senior leadership, their peers and drive,
[00:37:19.830]and one comment in that conversation
[00:37:22.020]can be what drives a creative idea.
[00:37:24.240]So I think that it's not being afraid to ask questions
[00:37:27.600]and not being afraid to ask questions
[00:37:29.130]in and out of the school
[00:37:32.340]and in and out of your early career.
[00:37:35.850]That's good to hear.
[00:37:37.538]That's one thing I don't think has changed at all
[00:37:38.371]in all the years the building's been open
[00:37:40.507]and the college has been open,
[00:37:41.848]that driving curiosity has always been in all of our majors
[00:37:43.860]art of what drives us, I think.
[00:37:46.860]Yeah.
[00:37:48.538]One thing we do know about the generation of students
[00:37:50.610]that we're dealing with right now
[00:37:51.690]is they have a heightened interest in social causes
[00:37:55.710]and behavioral kinds of things that touch them personally.
[00:37:58.650]They're very engaged in looking after
[00:38:01.560]what is not only good for whom they work,
[00:38:03.840]but also for themselves as well.
[00:38:06.120]What are you seeing as in suggesting to students about
[00:38:09.390]the work-life balance, which is a term
[00:38:11.520]that I honestly hadn't heard much until about 10 years ago.
[00:38:14.760]It was basically get out and work and now it's,
[00:38:17.530]"Well, yes there's work, but there's also you.
[00:38:19.050]And if you're not good at you,
[00:38:20.970]you won't be good at work."
[00:38:22.050]So, what do you encourage folks about that?
[00:38:26.070]Yeah, we certainly see with the youngest generations
[00:38:30.630]in the workforce are looking at
[00:38:33.045]wanting to have that purpose,
[00:38:34.860]I think maybe much earlier in life than many of us.
[00:38:38.070]I certainly came out head down,
[00:38:40.860]ready to do whatever it took to prove myself every day.
[00:38:43.710]And not that there aren't, you know,
[00:38:45.795]that isn't out there and with people anymore,
[00:38:48.210]there's a bit more of I need purpose while doing that.
[00:38:52.800]I think purpose is and balance and all of that
[00:38:57.960]is really important.
[00:38:59.280]And again, this industry is one
[00:39:02.400]where we're asking people to be creative.
[00:39:04.530]Again, whatever part of the industry you work in,
[00:39:07.410]we're asking for that inquisitiveness,
[00:39:08.850]we're asking for that creativity.
[00:39:10.577]So if you're sitting there at a,
[00:39:14.640]chain to a desk and we say, you know,
[00:39:17.010]get me your deadline by tomorrow, get me your idea tomorrow.
[00:39:19.740]That isn't really what works.
[00:39:21.240]We get out into the world, we explore, ideas come to you.
[00:39:25.200]So I think that we as an industry
[00:39:28.350]have a bit of a need to do better.
[00:39:36.150]Advertising is known for being rather intense,
[00:39:39.540]which is always kind of funny
[00:39:41.325]'cause we're certainly not making rockets
[00:39:43.830]or doing open heart surgeries.
[00:39:46.080]But it's known for being really intense
[00:39:48.960]and having a lot of late nights.
[00:39:51.981]We can do a better job of allowing for people
[00:39:53.580]to work more flexibly.
[00:39:56.190]That being said, it is definitely,
[00:39:59.250]definitely a need to come together when we can.
[00:40:03.270]We look at our return to office,
[00:40:07.014]as we call it a social contract.
[00:40:07.847]It's not a rule.
[00:40:09.632]You don't have to be,
[00:40:10.828]everyone doesn't have to be sitting at their desk
[00:40:11.661]because you have to be sitting at a desk.
[00:40:12.840]It's a social contract to say,
[00:40:14.490]I'm here for the other person,
[00:40:15.750]I'm here for the person to my right
[00:40:17.927]and the person to my left.
[00:40:18.760]And so if we can all gather together around that,
[00:40:22.710]I think work-life balance can be a part of what we do
[00:40:26.190]and we can still come together and do what we naturally do.
[00:40:33.180]That answered part of your question,
[00:40:34.530]which was around this kind of flexibility and new world.
[00:40:38.933]I hope we continue on that path
[00:40:42.060]and we find the right balance.
[00:40:43.860]Every industry will be a little different,
[00:40:45.330]but I do hope that we find ways to do that.
[00:40:47.130]And I think it will only help and increase creativity.
[00:40:51.450]When it comes to purpose and that kind of thing,
[00:40:53.563]I think that there is, there's a propensity to think,
[00:40:58.560]I know I did early on that I need to work
[00:41:00.660]on a particular type of client.
[00:41:02.790]Oh, I want, I must get to the big client.
[00:41:05.070]I've gotta work on Coca-Cola.
[00:41:06.780]I did eventually work on Coca-Cola.
[00:41:08.400]And it was everything I thought it would be,
[00:41:09.780]but I also worked on so many different things
[00:41:13.380]that were not the big sexy brand.
[00:41:15.990]And just because it wasn't the big sexy brand
[00:41:18.960]with the huge corporate social responsibility component
[00:41:22.380]to it, where I felt like I was volunteering hours
[00:41:25.800]in the background and everything else,
[00:41:27.623]it didn't mean that I couldn't help that industry.
[00:41:29.160]And I think there's a lot of different ways
[00:41:31.140]to think about how you are helping something
[00:41:34.200]and whether it needs to be with a certain brand name on it
[00:41:37.770]or a certain type of work on it.
[00:41:42.840]There's just a lot of different ways to give back
[00:41:45.354]and be a part of what is a bigger picture.
[00:41:48.210]When you bring, and this is related to that last answer.
[00:41:50.700]So when a tour comes through the agency
[00:41:53.190]and they stop by your area
[00:41:55.110]and they're interested, energetic young people,
[00:41:57.570]high schoolers or college kids,
[00:41:59.010]or you're asked to speak to a class and somebody says,
[00:42:01.982]I wanna do what you do, what advice do you have for them?
[00:42:07.353]I do encourage students to take a position
[00:42:16.260]and try to get a broad range of experience.
[00:42:19.980]There, again, people are tend to have their eye on a prize.
[00:42:24.840]I wanna work here at this exact agency,
[00:42:27.030]I wanna work on this kind of account, I wanna live overseas.
[00:42:33.636]I think the key early on, and this is what I did,
[00:42:36.750]I worked across a really broad range of clients.
[00:42:39.540]When I worked at Swanson Russell out of school,
[00:42:41.850]I did get that job offer after that,
[00:42:44.940]the earliest internship while I was younger in college
[00:42:47.490]and then I came out
[00:42:48.330]and I started working for Swanson Russell
[00:42:49.950]and I got the chance to touch healthcare, technology,
[00:42:54.224]erosion control and agriculture side of things.
[00:42:58.560]And getting that really broad breadth of banking,
[00:43:01.560]finance, broad breadth of experience
[00:43:03.330]allowed me to then springboard that
[00:43:05.190]once I had that experience under my belt
[00:43:07.110]into something that then I could say,
[00:43:09.330]okay, I've learned this much, this is where I wanna go next.
[00:43:12.510]And that next step took me
[00:43:14.730]to the next step took me to Coca-Cola at Leo Burnett.
[00:43:18.660]So try not to think about doing all of it right upfront.
[00:43:22.710]Try to think about getting
[00:43:25.020]a really broad range of experience.
[00:43:27.000]The other thing I do think is fun about our industry,
[00:43:30.120]and it's one of the reasons I've always stayed
[00:43:31.680]on the agency side instead of the client side
[00:43:34.140]is you get the chance to work on a lot.
[00:43:37.740]raise your hand for business development,
[00:43:39.450]new business pitches, you know, go touch it for a while,
[00:43:43.170]go volunteer to work on a pro bono account.
[00:43:45.990]There's so many great ways to get outside
[00:43:48.600]of what could be a siloed experience
[00:43:50.640]to get that range of work experience
[00:43:54.930]that may not be like immediately apparent
[00:43:56.550]when you walk in the doors.
[00:43:58.350]So the to try tied this back into where we started
[00:44:00.780]and since you mentioned pitching again,
[00:44:03.601]has the nature of pitching changed since you started
[00:44:07.200]and do you anticipate it changing further down the road?
[00:44:12.420]Ironically, in a world that changes constantly,
[00:44:15.930]pitching has not, and it's fascinating.
[00:44:22.066]We still will receive an RFP, RFI from,
[00:44:27.365]a request for proposal from clients,
[00:44:29.940]and it will still be a very long structured process
[00:44:36.390]that still follows all the same steps it did 20 years ago.
[00:44:40.830]And it needs to evolve.
[00:44:42.690]And I've spoken about this before
[00:44:44.670]and I'm involved with some of the industry organizations
[00:44:46.680]and trying to evolve this.
[00:44:49.470]But we will work these crazy hours and we will, like I said,
[00:44:54.510]do a ton of work in a very short period of time
[00:44:58.302]and give it away for free to, you know,
[00:45:00.540]in the pitch presentation.
[00:45:03.030]And it's a little bit archaic.
[00:45:05.850]And I do think I'm a big proponent of changing that.
[00:45:08.640]I'm working with the 4A's,
[00:45:09.870]I'm working with the A&A to try and get clients,
[00:45:13.650]marketing teams, procurement teams,
[00:45:15.510]as well as agencies to really come together and say,
[00:45:18.720]what is the right way to do this, so that we have better,
[00:45:24.570]we have better respect, better use of time, efficiency.
[00:45:28.710]Because it's a ton of time for the client
[00:45:31.968]to be meet with three different agencies
[00:45:32.880]or five different agencies,
[00:45:34.170]keeping all that straight in their head.
[00:45:35.970]It's a great deal of time for us
[00:45:37.560]and great deal of intensity and burnout among employees
[00:45:40.470]who were asked to to come into that process.
[00:45:44.120]For a while it used to be
[00:45:45.780]that if you got the phone call for new business,
[00:45:47.610]you were both overjoyed and concerned at the same time
[00:45:51.750]because you knew you were kind of being tapped
[00:45:53.430]for A team to go win something,
[00:45:55.440]but then you were like,
[00:45:56.377]"Oh my God, I just lost every night
[00:45:58.734]and weekend for the next two months."
[00:46:01.140]So we've really, really strived to create a world
[00:46:04.860]that is still energized in new business
[00:46:07.110]as much as I can control,
[00:46:09.750]so that we are saying no to clients a bit more
[00:46:12.840]on what we're willing to do.
[00:46:15.148]And we're saying no to saying,
[00:46:18.150]I don't really wanna small fee for my work
[00:46:20.940]that I'm gonna give to you for free.
[00:46:22.200]I'm actually gonna retain the IP
[00:46:24.240]and the ownership of those ideas in that process.
[00:46:27.812]And if that's not enough for you to know
[00:46:31.797]and for us to be the right partner that you can then say,
[00:46:35.370]now we're gonna get into the depth
[00:46:37.440]of this experience together,
[00:46:39.030]then it may not be the right partnership for us.
[00:46:41.820]It's another big risk. I think, that I'm certainly taking,
[00:46:46.560]but that's one I believe really strongly in.
[00:46:49.440]Your story about the sort of duality of getting that call
[00:46:52.440]reminded me of Jon Stewart on, "The Daily Show"
[00:46:55.770]mentioning that they had produced a demo
[00:46:57.840]for, "The Colbert Report" and that Comedy Central loved it
[00:47:00.957]and had commissioned the series,
[00:47:02.400]and Stewart on, "The Daily Show" said, well,
[00:47:04.260]we did this little show and they liked it
[00:47:06.930]and now we actually gotta go produce it. (chuckles)
[00:47:10.865]Right.
[00:47:11.698]It was like duality of the phone calls,
[00:47:12.930]like, "Congratulations, but now we gotta do it."
[00:47:16.020]So yeah, that kind of goes both directions.
[00:47:19.163]That is the fun of my team's job is we get to,
[00:47:25.350]I always say we get to hold the wedding,
[00:47:27.660]but we don't have to stick through the marriage. (chuckles)
[00:47:31.740]Or we have to, or we get to have the baby,
[00:47:33.570]but we, you know, in the early days,
[00:47:34.830]but then we get to hand it off
[00:47:35.970]or during its childhood and teenage years.
[00:47:38.640]So that is something that I've always found
[00:47:41.550]a bit freeing about.
[00:47:43.140]Oh my God, we just sold this, now we have to do the work.
[00:47:46.020]That's a great analogy.
[00:47:47.430]Well, since we're talking futures,
[00:47:48.780]what's the future hold for you, do you think?
[00:47:52.704]Is this your dream gig
[00:47:54.686]now that you're a second time person around?
[00:47:56.130]Or do you think there's something else
[00:47:58.770]coming down the road for you?
[00:48:01.650]This is my dream job.
[00:48:03.660]It absolutely, I can say that
[00:48:06.840]with a hundred percent certainty.
[00:48:08.250]So for that reason, I'll say the future is open.
[00:48:11.790]I've always been interested in
[00:48:14.569]not necessarily following a job,
[00:48:18.480]although certainly I had my eye on this one.
[00:48:22.290]This came to me and this worked because of the people I knew
[00:48:27.900]and the connections I made and the hard work along the way.
[00:48:31.080]So, I've always kind of followed people.
[00:48:34.735]And when the people I knew and loved from Leo Burnett came,
[00:48:37.650]you know, called and said there was an opportunity
[00:48:39.540]to work together again, it's really joining the people.
[00:48:41.880]And so if there are people in my life and in my network
[00:48:46.710]that have that next opportunity,
[00:48:48.271]that's where I'll look.
[00:48:50.100]But for now, I am absolutely thrilled to be where I am.
[00:48:55.020]I'm loving it and we'll see where life goes.
[00:48:59.190]Well, you have a fabulous gig at a fabulous storied agency
[00:49:02.100]in a fabulous city, so what's not to like, you know?
[00:49:04.830]Right, right.
[00:49:05.970]What am I looking for next?
[00:49:07.260]I don't know, yeah. (Rick chuckling)
[00:49:08.640]Well, I thank you very much for taking time today
[00:49:10.800]to talk with our audience and our students about
[00:49:13.230]the future of your industry
[00:49:14.517]and we wish you all the best down the road.
[00:49:17.580]Thank you very much.
[00:49:18.510]And I wish all the best to the students and the college.
[00:49:22.950]Our guest today on, "Campus Voices," Emily Doskow,
[00:49:25.350]the chief marketing officer for Leo Burnett.
[00:49:28.080]I'm Rick Alloway, this has been, "Campus Voices."
[00:49:30.300]And as always, I thank you for your time.
[00:49:35.970]All right. Stop this.

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