Not That Kind of Doctor - Teaching in Higher Education

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02/14/2023 Added

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Teaching in Higher Education - Ph.D. discussions with Nicholas Husbye and Guy Trainin. www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor and https://mediahub.unl.edu/channels/42980

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[00:00:00.000](upbeat music)
[00:00:09.400](indistinct speech from Guy)
[00:00:11.340]I thought it was your episode! You were starting!
[00:00:12.830]Yeah! Oh, okay!
[00:00:14.070]I am excited because we're gonna talk about teaching,
[00:00:16.800]and especially teaching in higher education because,
[00:00:20.356]there are two ways, for me at least,
[00:00:22.410]that teaching in higher education is different
[00:00:25.740]than what I've done before
[00:00:27.900]and one way is,
[00:00:30.510]most of us have taught in one format or another in K-12.
[00:00:34.770]So, we've worked with kids, we know how to teach,
[00:00:37.560]but schools, K-12 schools and higher education,
[00:00:41.580]the way college works, is very, very different,
[00:00:43.950]I feel, in some ways.
[00:00:45.900]In other ways, teaching is teaching,
[00:00:48.450]and the second aspect, and that's definitely for me,
[00:00:51.360]is that I actually came from another country.
[00:00:56.400]I've talked about this before,
[00:00:57.780]from Israel, and so for me,
[00:01:00.720]the transition was also between
[00:01:02.940]the way higher education works in other countries
[00:01:05.850]and the way it works in the United States.
[00:01:07.680]It feels very different.
[00:01:10.770]There's the added difference in culture and in language
[00:01:14.670]that is making things considerably more difficult.
[00:01:18.030]There's accent, a student one's-
[00:01:22.020]Are you talking about mine?
[00:01:22.920]Yes, I am talking about yours,
[00:01:24.750]and one of my students once told me that,
[00:01:27.810]delightfully by the way, told me that I sound like Gru,
[00:01:31.135](hosts laughing)
[00:01:32.990]and so, and I'm like, okay, I don't know what to do
[00:01:38.040]with that, but, so those are real challenges
[00:01:42.150]when you start teaching in higher education
[00:01:45.420]and your students feel comfortable saying things like that
[00:01:48.300]and I had a great relationship with that student,
[00:01:50.760]so it was fine,
[00:01:51.660]but it is in the back of our mind as we're thinking
[00:01:57.090]about what does it mean to teach in higher education.
[00:02:01.620]How was your first experience teaching?
[00:02:04.020]Well, before we go into that-
[00:02:04.946]Okay. Okay.
[00:02:05.779]We should probably say-
[00:02:07.050]Uh-huh.
[00:02:07.883]Today on "Not That Kind of Doctor,"
[00:02:09.990]we're talking all about teaching and the shift
[00:02:13.230]from teaching sometimes in elementary
[00:02:16.590]or secondary contexts into higher ed.
[00:02:20.040]I'm Nick Husbye.
[00:02:21.390]I am an associate professor
[00:02:22.650]of elementary literacy education here at UNL.
[00:02:25.710]I'm Guy Trainin, and I'm a professor of literacy
[00:02:29.760]and innovative learning technologies
[00:02:32.100]here at UNL, and this is-
[00:02:34.110]Oh, look at you adding things on.
[00:02:36.000]Yeah, I know!
[00:02:37.159]And this is "Not That Kind of Doctor!"
[00:02:39.300]Thank you, and so now-
[00:02:41.640]And now.
[00:02:43.110]How was it?
[00:02:44.160]How did you happen to teach
[00:02:45.600]the first time in higher education?
[00:02:47.610]So, teaching was part of the financial aid package
[00:02:53.040]that I was given from the institution that I studied at.
[00:02:56.010]So, Indiana University was like, hey,
[00:02:59.310]you're gonna be a teacher within our program.
[00:03:04.410]They called us associate instructors,
[00:03:06.120]and I was in the unique situation of,
[00:03:12.990]I taught within the special education program,
[00:03:16.140]so I was the literacy generalist-
[00:03:18.390]Mm. Okay.
[00:03:19.223]For the special education program.
[00:03:21.060]So, I was split between these two departments.
[00:03:24.120]There was literacy culture and language education,
[00:03:27.420]rest in peace, and special education,
[00:03:31.380]and so there was only one of me.
[00:03:34.020]There was only one of me doing that particular job,
[00:03:38.250]working with that particular population
[00:03:40.470]of pre-service teachers.
[00:03:42.450]So, there was this lovely challenge of what is it like-
[00:03:51.923]Uh-huh. To be dropped into
[00:03:54.736](Nick laughing)
[00:03:55.860]a course for the first time
[00:03:58.380]and not really have much support.
[00:04:00.990]Uh-huh.
[00:04:02.460]Not because that was designed that way,
[00:04:04.860]but because I was literally the only,
[00:04:07.860]there was one section every semester.
[00:04:09.900]I was the only person teaching in that section.
[00:04:14.850]So, it was an experience in getting an idea
[00:04:23.610]of what's been done in the past,
[00:04:26.730]what needs to be done in the future.
[00:04:28.740]When you're working in a teacher education program,
[00:04:31.050]you're always thinking about, like,
[00:04:33.030]how do I need to prepare students
[00:04:34.890]to actually teach in classrooms?
[00:04:36.870]What does that look like?
[00:04:38.610]Layered on with the additional special ed kind of focus
[00:04:43.290]that those particular students had,
[00:04:46.560]so it was like,
[00:04:52.560]it wasn't like sink or swim.
[00:04:54.570]I definitely had some water wings,
[00:04:56.370]but anyone who's had water wings knows
[00:04:59.340]that that's sometimes not enough.
[00:05:01.320]Yeah. (Guy chuckling)
[00:05:02.490]And so, yeah, it was an experience.
[00:05:06.630]How about you?
[00:05:07.463]How did you
[00:05:09.110]come into teaching? So for me,
[00:05:11.010]and I'm talking about teaching in the United States
[00:05:13.290]because I did actually teach in Israel in higher education,
[00:05:17.160]so, and that's not unusual.
[00:05:19.380]Quite a few of,
[00:05:20.213]at least the students that we have here at UNL,
[00:05:23.790]when they come as graduate students,
[00:05:25.642]the international students have had some,
[00:05:28.860]or maybe even a lot of higher education experience,
[00:05:32.670]but higher education in different countries works
[00:05:34.800]in very, very different ways,
[00:05:37.350]and so this is something that I have thought about a lot,
[00:05:46.710]okay, a lot as as I've made that transition,
[00:05:51.570]but helped other students make that transition and that is,
[00:05:54.870]the culture is very different.
[00:05:56.400]The student expectations are very different.
[00:05:58.440]So, in many other countries, for example, students,
[00:06:01.650]it feels more like we are used to in K-12.
[00:06:04.230]Students get their marching orders
[00:06:07.168]and really conform quite extensively.
[00:06:11.970]In Israel, for example,
[00:06:13.410]the credit load is considerably higher
[00:06:15.712]in any given semester,
[00:06:18.360]more like 20+ credits, and things like that,
[00:06:22.620]so there are very different expectations
[00:06:25.200]from that perspective and that's
[00:06:27.574]a challenge in the transition.
[00:06:29.910]I actually started as a TA,
[00:06:32.220]and then I taught the same class I TA'd,
[00:06:34.680]so that was a much easier transition into the way
[00:06:39.780]that we kind of think about higher education
[00:06:46.950]and how to teach a class, much easier than yours,
[00:06:50.220]I think, in that I've seen somebody else teach it more
[00:06:54.240]than once actually, and then finally, I got to teach it
[00:06:57.540]and play a little bit with the variables and for me,
[00:07:01.560]one of the first things that I've done, and I've done that
[00:07:03.870]even when I came to UNL and I taught the literacy class
[00:07:07.470]for the third time, for the first time,
[00:07:10.530]I really stuck more or less to somebody else's curriculum
[00:07:14.580]as much as possible-
[00:07:15.720]Uh-huh. For the first time
[00:07:17.190]and after that first time,
[00:07:19.890]I was able to see what works for me,
[00:07:21.750]what doesn't work for me, what do I want to change.
[00:07:24.240]So, if there is something to be learned from that,
[00:07:26.760]at least for me, is if there's somebody else teaching that,
[00:07:30.840]if there's a structure to support you, embrace that.
[00:07:33.870]Do not try to rewrite everything and say, I know better,
[00:07:37.680]and you may, I know everything that needs to happen.
[00:07:41.520]It's actually much better to take something and go with it
[00:07:47.190]and then realize what works and what doesn't work.
[00:07:50.850]Right.
[00:07:51.683]Like, you can't redesign everything
[00:07:55.350]within three weeks, right?
[00:07:56.670]That's not-
[00:07:57.690]Yeah.
[00:07:58.523]How that happens.
[00:07:59.356]Like, you pick certain things that you change
[00:08:04.500]and shift from semester to semester to semester,
[00:08:08.310]which is slightly frustrating.
[00:08:11.490]Yeah.
[00:08:12.323]I think it speaks to the,
[00:08:14.970]one of the things that really was a mind shift for me was
[00:08:19.860]the temporality of teaching in higher education.
[00:08:24.150]Uh-huh.
[00:08:24.983]Coming from being a self-contained first grade teacher,
[00:08:30.390]I saw my kids every day.
[00:08:31.650]Yeah.
[00:08:32.483]Right?
[00:08:33.316]So, like, there's something about being able
[00:08:35.640]to pick up those threads
[00:08:37.620]of learning from the previous day and extend them
[00:08:40.260]into the next whereas in university teaching,
[00:08:46.680]I may only see my students once a week.
[00:08:48.840]Yeah.
[00:08:49.673]Right?
[00:08:50.506]So, like, what do I have to do differently in order
[00:08:55.320]to connect those experiences?
[00:08:59.910]Because I don't see them for six days.
[00:09:01.410]Like, there's six days in between me seeing my students,
[00:09:05.520]and what does that mean for my teaching?
[00:09:09.330]So, that temporality was tricky-
[00:09:15.240]Uh-huh.
[00:09:16.410]As well as like,
[00:09:19.260]how do we actually reach our students?
[00:09:23.160]Like, what are, we talk about pedagogy a lot
[00:09:27.660]in teacher education, usually
[00:09:28.869]for elementary and secondary students,
[00:09:31.650]but what do those pedagogies look like for adults?
[00:09:34.530]Right? Like, how do you actually foster a discussion?
[00:09:38.220]Yeah.
[00:09:39.690]When they all look at you like deer in the headlights.
[00:09:42.690]And you start realizing that they have not read anything
[00:09:45.600]and so there's not much happening right there
[00:09:49.410]and you've gotta have some strategies.
[00:09:51.030]So, from that first time teaching,
[00:09:53.190]what were the biggest lessons you took?
[00:09:59.460]So, I think the biggest thing for me was
[00:10:08.040]how much I had taken from my own undergraduate experience.
[00:10:13.200]Like, I was teaching courses that were very similar
[00:10:15.840]to the coursework I took-
[00:10:17.490]Yeah.
[00:10:18.323]As an undergraduate, and so Lordy talks about
[00:10:24.510]how pre-service teachers,
[00:10:27.000]while they're in a teacher education program, and we say
[00:10:30.270]they're learning to be teachers,
[00:10:31.230]they've been learning to be teachers for a really long time,
[00:10:35.700]and so it was this weird layer of, oh,
[00:10:40.200]I've been learning to be a teacher/educator
[00:10:42.330]for a really long time because
[00:10:45.805]that was part of my undergrad experience,
[00:10:49.410]and so thinking back to what my experiences were
[00:10:55.290]as an undergraduate and the things that didn't work for me,
[00:10:59.430]but also the things that did work,
[00:11:01.650]and trying to figure out why.
[00:11:03.240]What were the mechanisms under which my professors
[00:11:09.960]were operating and utilized that made
[00:11:13.500]that particular learning experience work or not?
[00:11:18.420]So, throughout that entire process,
[00:11:22.530]like, going back over, like,
[00:11:24.510]journals my 22 year old self had written-
[00:11:28.110]Uh-huh.
[00:11:28.943]Like, this is what happened in class today
[00:11:30.270]and it didn't work,
[00:11:31.103]la la la la la, like, but trying to figure out, like,
[00:11:33.570]why didn't things work and what did work and identifying,
[00:11:40.530]there are certain things I can do to get students engaged
[00:11:47.580]in my coursework, to engage in the content,
[00:11:50.160]particularly around teaching reading, teaching writing,
[00:11:55.230]and so that was the first,
[00:11:57.780]that first semester, as I'm flailing around with my,
[00:12:01.890]you know, water wings, I was like, oh,
[00:12:07.770]these are some of the things that I can do
[00:12:09.330]and how do I build upon those
[00:12:10.620]and how do I expand upon those?
[00:12:12.000]So, it was a lot of trial and error,
[00:12:14.880]a lot of experimentation in different ways
[00:12:18.360]'cause it's a different population.
[00:12:20.010]Yeah, and for me, at every instance where I started again,
[00:12:27.501]I had to watch others and have a lot of, I was lucky enough,
[00:12:32.310]unlike you in your first one, for example,
[00:12:34.980]when I came to UNL, I taught,
[00:12:36.720]but there were two of the same class being taught
[00:12:39.990]at the same time.
[00:12:41.070]So, for the first semester,
[00:12:42.690]I collaborated with Kathy Wilson who was here, and we,
[00:12:46.830]I used her syllabus so we could lean on each other,
[00:12:51.480]and she walked me through some of the moves
[00:12:54.360]and some of the options
[00:12:56.040]and that's where I learned what worked for me
[00:12:57.750]and what didn't work and that's where I started diverting,
[00:13:00.330]but that's how it started, and again,
[00:13:03.060]starting as a TA helped me see somebody else teach,
[00:13:06.570]and in that case, see what moves really worked well
[00:13:09.720]and what moves were going nowhere
[00:13:11.610]because when you are sitting there
[00:13:13.080]and being a TA, you have the opportunity to observe
[00:13:17.160]how students react and really have some time to think.
[00:13:21.420]If that doesn't happen when you're teaching,
[00:13:23.340]you've got to debrief either with somebody else,
[00:13:25.320]or even on your own by journaling,
[00:13:28.140]to think about what has happened,
[00:13:29.790]what worked, what didn't work.
[00:13:31.590]One of the things that I've learned
[00:13:33.030]in the first time I taught on my own is that,
[00:13:36.840]and it sounds trite and it sounds obvious,
[00:13:39.930]but creating really good personal connections
[00:13:43.470]and a relationship with your students is crucial,
[00:13:46.980]and the piece that I didn't understand
[00:13:48.930]is that temporality piece,
[00:13:50.220]and that is that seeing them once a week makes
[00:13:53.610]that relationship-building a lot more important
[00:13:58.380]because if you see,
[00:14:00.300]if you miss something in the building of relationship over
[00:14:04.500]the first few weeks,
[00:14:06.210]you may have lost them for the semester.
[00:14:08.310]They may learn something, but it'll be rough going.
[00:14:11.610]There'll be a lot of resistance and it's harder
[00:14:14.580]to carry them to do the hard work that they need to do
[00:14:17.820]whereas, if you build the relationships early,
[00:14:20.250]then they trust you enough to go with you
[00:14:22.620]wherever you are going and wherever you want them
[00:14:25.378]to go and really do, again,
[00:14:28.920]it's about hard work and hard work is always hard and you
[00:14:33.003]are, there's always resistance.
[00:14:34.590]So, it's something to think about in the back of your mind
[00:14:37.350]is how do I establish relationship knowing
[00:14:39.780]that I will see them
[00:14:40.890]and then not see them for a week-
[00:14:43.140]Uh-huh.
[00:14:43.973]And so really planning the first few interactions
[00:14:47.520]to set things on a clear course
[00:14:49.770]and providing enough structure for them to understand
[00:14:54.360]where the course is going so there's a sense of purpose.
[00:14:58.920]Yeah, and I think
[00:14:59.753]there's two things that are important to touch upon there,
[00:15:03.900]like the hot take-
[00:15:10.830]Uh-huh.
[00:15:11.663]Potentially, but I always cringe a little bit
[00:15:15.930]about when I hear like, oh,
[00:15:18.090]relationships are the most important things,
[00:15:21.270]and I think what often gets missed when we talk
[00:15:26.100]about relationships, in particularly education,
[00:15:32.010]is it's a particular kind of relationship.
[00:15:34.110]Yes.
[00:15:34.943]Right?
[00:15:35.776]Like, one of the things that you have to do
[00:15:37.440]as the instructor, or as the teacher, is demonstrate that,
[00:15:45.600]or not necessarily even demonstrate,
[00:15:47.670]but just establish the fact
[00:15:51.510]that you have particular knowledge of particular skills
[00:15:57.270]and you are going
[00:15:58.103]to spend this class time investing in the students
[00:16:01.170]that you're working with so that they leave your course
[00:16:06.750]a better person when they walked in.
[00:16:08.160]Like, every class session,
[00:16:10.830]they should leave that class session slightly changed.
[00:16:16.770]Yes. Right?
[00:16:17.603]And I sometimes feel like that gets left out.
[00:16:20.940]Like, I know my students' names. I know birthdays.
[00:16:25.410]I know favorite books.
[00:16:26.550]Like, there's stuff that I'm getting from them,
[00:16:29.070]but the most important part of that relationship
[00:16:32.280]is that they know that I have particular experiences,
[00:16:39.360]particular knowledge, that I'm gonna work diligently
[00:16:43.500]with them to make sure that they grow in those areas,
[00:16:47.970]and there's this investment, right?
[00:16:49.942]Back and forth. And so for me, yes,
[00:16:52.110]and it's good that you pointed that out because for me,
[00:16:55.437]the relationship is really the relationship
[00:16:57.780]while doing the thing itself.
[00:16:59.670]So, while practicing how to teach literacy,
[00:17:03.420]I'm not building relationships to just build a relationship.
[00:17:07.230]We're not spending whole class sessions
[00:17:09.180]just sitting together, talking about our lives.
[00:17:12.420]We are using the materials, whatever they're reading,
[00:17:15.750]whatever we're doing, to create that layer of trust.
[00:17:20.490]So, it's not outside.
[00:17:22.110]We're not just pausing on content and saying,
[00:17:25.350]we're just going to be nice to each other.
[00:17:27.780]I agree with you completely,
[00:17:28.920]but there are strategies to do that
[00:17:30.570]while discussing pertinent issues,
[00:17:33.990]so, but you do have to put more time and effort to into it
[00:17:37.680]and actually, because the relationship is really linked
[00:17:41.970]to content, you have to plan carefully
[00:17:43.920]because it can't be devoid of content
[00:17:45.510]because students immediately get the sense
[00:17:48.450]that we're not actually doing any work that moves us forward
[00:17:51.780]and they start resisting, rightfully so,
[00:17:54.030]because if they're in teacher education,
[00:17:55.560]or whatever they're learning really,
[00:17:57.319]they are there to get better.
[00:18:00.390]They are there to learn how to do something.
[00:18:02.580]In our case, we both teach literacy
[00:18:04.500]and they really want to know
[00:18:05.790]how to teach reading and writing.
[00:18:07.290]Uh-huh.
[00:18:08.123]They know that is a critical feature,
[00:18:09.660]so if we don't immediately start with that
[00:18:12.360]and build the relationship while doing that,
[00:18:14.760]they start immediately feeling like we're wasting their time
[00:18:18.450]and ours, and so the layer of expertise and the,
[00:18:22.410]it's gotta be about what are you teaching me?
[00:18:25.350]Right.
[00:18:26.183]I mean, and that's the important part
[00:18:27.540]of that relationship-building, right?
[00:18:29.160]Like, you need to establish that you have something to give
[00:18:33.450]in this relationship.
[00:18:34.720]Yeah. I feel.
[00:18:35.889]The other piece that I wanted to to come back to is, like,
[00:18:39.450]this temporality piece because that was something
[00:18:43.560]that I really had to get my head wrapped around
[00:18:47.100]that, and thinking about what tools I have available to me.
[00:18:52.620]So, like, I spend a lot of time planning for class.
[00:18:58.170]I'm on an overload this semester and it is, like,
[00:19:01.230]my time is blocked out right now.
[00:19:05.183]That's part of the reason why I look like I should be
[00:19:08.160]in the background of a "Duck Dynasty" episode.
[00:19:10.650]If you were to see me after noon today, totally different.
[00:19:15.329]It's gonna look totally different,
[00:19:16.860]but, you know, when you got classes to plan,
[00:19:21.180]trying to get into the barber is not a helpful thing,
[00:19:24.300]but, like, the leveraging my learning management systems-
[00:19:29.160]Uh-huh.
[00:19:30.150]And leveraging them in ways that make sense to students.
[00:19:36.750]So, what are some examples of how you leverage it?
[00:19:40.020]So, some of the examples of how I leverage my LMS
[00:19:44.940]is, you got these all last semester-
[00:19:48.483]Yep. So, sorry.
[00:19:50.250]One of the things
[00:19:51.210]that I really like to do after class is I always schedule
[00:19:55.470]an announcement that goes out to students.
[00:19:58.710]So, it's essentially just an email through the LMS of, hey,
[00:20:02.370]this is what we talked about today.
[00:20:04.350]Here's what we're gonna do next time that we meet.
[00:20:07.350]Here's all the links that you need to everything.
[00:20:11.790]Looking forward to this.
[00:20:13.080]Here's what's coming on the horizon. See you soon.
[00:20:16.110]And so that gets them,
[00:20:20.190]that keeps me in their inbox
[00:20:23.160]even though they're not seeing me and I do this
[00:20:25.740]with even my classes that I meet once a week,
[00:20:28.830]like, my doctoral seminar right now,
[00:20:30.480]we meet on Monday nights.
[00:20:32.520]I annoy them in their email on Thursday just
[00:20:34.920]to be like, hey, it's me.
[00:20:36.900]Hi. I'm the problem.
[00:20:38.310]It's me. Here's all the assignments that I gave you.
[00:20:42.150]Aren't you glad you took this class?
[00:20:44.460]You know?
[00:20:45.293]So, and that helps kind of remind them that-
[00:20:51.412]Uh-huh. Hey, this is a thing.
[00:20:52.410]Yeah.
[00:20:53.340]Where are you at?
[00:20:54.173]What are you doing?
[00:20:55.006]And it also invites them to, like, ask questions-
[00:20:58.440]Uh-huh.
[00:20:59.273]Around that.
[00:21:01.530]The other thing, so one big change that I made this semester
[00:21:06.900]was I realized that I spent a lot of time creating these,
[00:21:13.980]like, hyperlinked Google Doc schedules for students
[00:21:17.801]and they don't reference them.
[00:21:22.320]Uh-huh.
[00:21:23.153]The only thing that they reference is their Canvas.
[00:21:25.350]Yep.
[00:21:26.220]And so, I kept getting feedback from students around,
[00:21:30.210]well, where do I find that?
[00:21:32.200]I don't understand where we are,
[00:21:34.080]and I was like,
[00:21:34.913]did you check the schedule?
[00:21:35.760]And they're like, it's not on Canvas.
[00:21:36.780]I was like, no,
[00:21:37.613]the schedule's right here,
[00:21:38.550]but they were talking about the Canvas schedule-
[00:21:41.010]Uh-huh.
[00:21:41.843]And so this semester,
[00:21:44.070]like everything is. Even the schedule.
[00:21:46.590]Canvas, everything is right there.
[00:21:49.530]I still did my Google,
[00:21:50.880]but I didn't spend as much time, like,
[00:21:55.230]tricking it out as you might say,
[00:22:00.030]and I've also been playing with
[00:22:04.080]when things become visible to students-
[00:22:06.810]Yeah.
[00:22:08.040]So that things don't become visible.
[00:22:12.240]Like, not everything is visible
[00:22:14.190]and I've kind of staggered when things get visible
[00:22:18.120]so that they're just thinking about me.
[00:22:21.930]Think about me! This feels a little bit like a Netflix,
[00:22:25.470]like, I need you to think about me.
[00:22:28.440]So for me, one of the ways I do that,
[00:22:32.087]and I've learned from you to do the announcements
[00:22:35.610]and to use, to leverage those.
[00:22:37.769]One of the other things that I use is,
[00:22:40.680]especially after assignments, I put together
[00:22:44.970]very short videos that are a response
[00:22:47.100]to, here are the three
[00:22:48.456]most common problems in this assignment.
[00:22:51.990]So, it is not individual feedback.
[00:22:54.630]It is general feedback,
[00:22:56.040]but again, it keeps me in their inbox.
[00:22:58.470]They see me, especially for classes that meet once a week.
[00:23:01.740]They see me.
[00:23:02.573]There's another moment and they can get feedback quickly on
[00:23:06.420]an assignment, even if they have not had time to look
[00:23:09.840]at my specific feedback to their assignment.
[00:23:15.397]One word about video,
[00:23:18.720]and we're making video here,
[00:23:19.860]but it's a little bit different when I make
[00:23:21.630]those kind of videos.
[00:23:22.560]These are videos I do at home in front of the computer,
[00:23:27.270]after the pandemic, on Zoom, and I just shoot straight
[00:23:31.560]and if I made a small error or something is a little bit
[00:23:34.800]off in the way I say it, it's fine.
[00:23:37.009]It would've happened in class that way as well,
[00:23:39.930]so I'm not concerned.
[00:23:41.100]I do not edit them unless there's a huge need for that.
[00:23:44.670]I'd rather re-shoot a three to five minute video
[00:23:47.430]than start editing because editing quadrupled the amount
[00:23:51.270]of time you are gonna use on that.
[00:23:52.830]It's not worth it.
[00:23:54.227]You can upload this into a learning management system,
[00:23:57.630]or LMS, or you can actually,
[00:24:00.450]and I put mine on YouTube just because it's easy
[00:24:02.910]and then I can embed it anywhere and I can keep it,
[00:24:05.460]not that I do anything with it,
[00:24:07.800]although there is a repetitiveness to comments
[00:24:10.350]about assignments you use in classes over and over again,
[00:24:14.010]but still, I usually make a new video,
[00:24:17.250]and so that's another way to keep that in line.
[00:24:22.650]Yeah, and the the video thing, I find,
[00:24:26.370]is also very helpful.
[00:24:27.590]Yeah. And I'm of the same ilk
[00:24:29.040]where, like, if it's less than five minutes,
[00:24:31.050]I'm not gonna worry about editing.
[00:24:32.490]Yeah, and it will take over your life
[00:24:37.350]if every video makes-
[00:24:38.610]Yeah. I mean, I think about durability there.
[00:24:40.990]Is it a video that I'm gonna use class after class
[00:24:43.470]after class after class?
[00:24:45.000]If that's not the case,
[00:24:47.280]then I don't worry about it being too terribly polished.
[00:24:50.490]Yeah. But if it's, like,
[00:24:52.830]videos about letter/sound generalizations-
[00:24:55.360]Yeah. I'm gonna spend
[00:24:56.280]a little bit more time on that-
[00:24:58.260]Uh-huh. Yeah, for sure.
[00:25:00.000]And making sure that comes together, but
[00:25:01.234]if it's feedback, whatnot,
[00:25:05.490]I kind of let go of the perfectionism.
[00:25:09.420]I do also, I would love to know about your videos.
[00:25:11.970]Sorry, this is an aside. Yeah.
[00:25:13.920]This is an aside, but I always find it interesting.
[00:25:19.320]Here's another tip. Track your teaching.
[00:25:21.840]Track what works.
[00:25:23.310]Track how students are responding to assignments.
[00:25:26.820]Do assignments do what you want them to do?
[00:25:28.620]Like, what are the objectives of your course
[00:25:30.360]and how are you measuring them?
[00:25:31.920]But, like, as I track assignments that I've used year
[00:25:36.540]after year after year, semester after semester
[00:25:38.340]after semester, I share that feedback-
[00:25:41.370]Uh-huh.
[00:25:42.203]Before they do the assignment.
[00:25:43.710]Yeah.
[00:25:44.543]Like, here's what other students,
[00:25:46.140]when I've used this assignment in the past,
[00:25:47.970]here's what other students have done.
[00:25:50.670]See if you can avoid these pitfalls.
[00:25:52.683]Yes. Yes. Collecting that.
[00:25:54.450]The other thinking about the assignments
[00:25:56.400]is always on my mind as you're thinking about,
[00:25:59.220]am I reaching my goals?
[00:26:01.117]Do I need that assignment?
[00:26:03.030]Uh-huh.
[00:26:03.863]I am a huge proponent of 'less is more' in assignments-
[00:26:08.250]Uh-huh.
[00:26:09.083]Because it makes your life manageable,
[00:26:10.470]especially if you're teaching multiple courses
[00:26:12.420]that quickly takes over your lives,
[00:26:14.370]and there are periods where you suddenly disappear
[00:26:16.890]because you've got so many assignments, and in my case,
[00:26:19.560]they get backlogged and then you get anxiety,
[00:26:22.860]and that whole thing, avoid that,
[00:26:24.930]and one of the ways to avoid that is avoid two things.
[00:26:27.510]One is avoid having too many assignments.
[00:26:29.880]So, if you're taking somebody else's curriculum,
[00:26:32.940]avoid the urge to add anything
[00:26:35.400]to it, especially in assignments.
[00:26:37.470]Maybe take something away,
[00:26:38.550]but definitely avoid adding at the beginning,
[00:26:41.610]and then, after every time you teach, you wanna think,
[00:26:45.030]did they do what I wanted,
[00:26:46.380]was it too much?
[00:26:47.490]Uh-huh.
[00:26:48.608]And how can I make it more streamlined?
[00:26:52.410]You need assignments.
[00:26:53.340]You need to know that students are learning,
[00:26:55.800]but there's a point where it becomes too much,
[00:26:57.780]and especially between semesters,
[00:26:59.130]it's really easy to start imagining
[00:27:02.130]that we can do two more assignments in that class
[00:27:06.330]because we missed and we didn't teach something,
[00:27:09.180]and there's always something
[00:27:10.770]that we could have taught better
[00:27:12.030]and there are ways to get to that and assignments
[00:27:14.250]is probably the wrong way.
[00:27:15.930]So, if you are adding assignments,
[00:27:17.700]you gotta take something away
[00:27:19.290]because it easily becomes unmanageable.
[00:27:22.770]Well, and again, if you're teaching multiple courses-
[00:27:27.270]Yeah.
[00:27:28.103]One, you do Marie Condo the crap outta your syllabus.
[00:27:32.100]Like, does this spark joy in terms of what this course
[00:27:36.150]is supposed to do?
[00:27:37.290]Uh-huh. Sure, sure.
[00:27:38.123]And if it doesn't, I get rid of it, right?
[00:27:42.450]Like, but that requires me to be very clear
[00:27:45.510]about what my objectives are and what performance indicators
[00:27:50.280]that I'm looking for-
[00:27:51.240]Uh-huh.
[00:27:52.080]And how those assignments align
[00:27:55.350]with those performance indicators and if they don't-
[00:28:00.480]Yeah.
[00:28:01.560]They don't spark joy, away they go, right?
[00:28:04.710]And being very clear with students
[00:28:07.530]around those performance indicators, right?
[00:28:09.420]I think rubrics get a really bad rap-
[00:28:11.880]Uh-huh.
[00:28:12.713]Particularly when we use them, as teachers,
[00:28:16.710]to justify a score.
[00:28:18.570]That's not what rubrics are meant to do.
[00:28:20.370]Rubrics are meant to help students understand
[00:28:23.010]the trajectories of learning and how that gets represented
[00:28:27.270]and what we are going to be thinking about
[00:28:30.960]as we look through their assignments.
[00:28:33.960]So, like, if you're using a rubric just for a score,
[00:28:37.230]you're doing it wrong.
[00:28:39.210]You're just, you're doing it wrong.
[00:28:41.670]Like, that should be a student-facing tool
[00:28:46.620]to give them an idea of-
[00:28:48.500]Of what you're expecting.
[00:28:49.830]Of what the expectations are-
[00:28:52.260]Uh-huh.
[00:28:53.190]And that's really been helpful for me
[00:28:59.010]around giving feedback on assessments
[00:29:02.670]'cause I'm less concerned about, like, what's your score,
[00:29:05.790]though students will be very concerned about their score-
[00:29:07.740]Yes.
[00:29:09.810]And more about how do I level you up.
[00:29:13.860]Like this is, and being very clear with a rubric around,
[00:29:18.930]here's how I'm describing it,
[00:29:20.700]here's how this has looked in the past,
[00:29:22.650]and really unpacking with students
[00:29:24.360]the ways in which that particular indicator
[00:29:30.840]can be manifested in an assignment, so that you know,
[00:29:35.250]as an instructor, what you're looking for,
[00:29:37.050]and students know kind of the demonstrations that they need
[00:29:42.450]to be cognizant of and aware of as they're doing
[00:29:45.900]that particular assessment work.
[00:29:47.490]And the last thing to add to that,
[00:29:51.090]I think, is that there's some learning to be done
[00:29:56.550]about the program you're working in,
[00:29:59.070]and so whether you're the only one teaching that course
[00:30:01.890]or part of a five or seven member team that teaches
[00:30:07.620]that course, you have to understand that no matter
[00:30:10.200]what you're doing, you're teaching in a program
[00:30:12.540]that has multiple classes and it is not your job
[00:30:16.320]to teach everything that is needed for
[00:30:19.710]whatever the major is, and in our case,
[00:30:21.660]mostly teacher education, you,
[00:30:23.910]in that one class you're teaching,
[00:30:25.740]are not supposed to teach 'em everything they need to know
[00:30:29.670]when they go out and teach in schools.
[00:30:32.340]So, you have to focus and you have to understand
[00:30:34.920]what the bigger picture is and that's very hard.
[00:30:38.700]Uh-huh.
[00:30:39.533]Very hard when you're just entering and teaching
[00:30:41.490]for the first time.
[00:30:42.510]You're starting in a program
[00:30:43.563]as a graduate student and you're teaching
[00:30:48.360]for the first time, or you get a faculty job
[00:30:51.150]and you're teaching in that program for the first time,
[00:30:53.160]and that's one of the reasons that I think about clinging
[00:30:55.950]to somebody else's curriculum first
[00:30:58.500]because they have probably figured out the expanse,
[00:31:01.980]and take the time to understand what
[00:31:04.140]is happening in other places,
[00:31:05.640]what you can build on that others have done
[00:31:07.650]and students have experienced already,
[00:31:09.330]and then what will happen in other places,
[00:31:11.760]and you don't have to worry about as much because I know
[00:31:16.140]this instinct and that is, I need to transfer all of
[00:31:18.990]the wisdom that I got from years of teaching
[00:31:21.780]in elementary school to you right now, in this moment.
[00:31:25.740]It never happens that way.
[00:31:27.630]Yeah, I mean, there's,
[00:31:29.430]and I think also, something to be aware of as you're moving
[00:31:36.270]into these teaching positions for the first time
[00:31:38.760]or teaching courses for the first time is sometimes,
[00:31:40.560]that work isn't evident.
[00:31:42.330]Like, sometimes I don't know what has come
[00:31:47.580]before my class, right?
[00:31:49.230]And that's a design issue.
[00:31:53.280]Uh-huh.
[00:31:54.150]Right? Yeah.
[00:31:54.983]So, like, and here at UNL in our elementary program,
[00:31:58.050]we're really thoughtfully trying to figure out
[00:32:02.130]where skills are being taught.
[00:32:04.980]So, where are students learning
[00:32:06.480]to scaffold a classroom discussion?
[00:32:09.510]Uh-huh.
[00:32:10.343]That's a generalizable skill that doesn't fall
[00:32:12.150]into any one content area, but it's not clear necessarily
[00:32:18.730]what is happening where and when,
[00:32:21.720]and so we're really trying to thoughtfully work through
[00:32:26.310]that, which is a start to that-
[00:32:29.730]Yeah.
[00:32:31.260]A start to that kind of work of,
[00:32:34.020]I don't have to teach everything because
[00:32:38.622]this course is part of a larger program.
[00:32:41.880]This is but a chapter in this larger novel
[00:32:45.120]of a story, right?
[00:32:46.623]Of their coursework.
[00:32:50.160]Here's my small part of it and this is how I add
[00:32:54.420]to the greater good of the program,
[00:32:57.120]but sometimes, it's not as well-laid out
[00:33:00.510]as we'd like it to be.
[00:33:01.770]Yeah.
[00:33:02.603]You know, so, and that's where the communication with-
[00:33:04.980]Yes.
[00:33:05.813]Other people within your program is really important
[00:33:10.650]because even as you are working on that design
[00:33:15.000]and really formalizing that design, if you have at least
[00:33:20.550]an idea of what is happening, it's really helpful,
[00:33:24.510]like, the stuff I've been reading,
[00:33:26.880]the stuff that students have had in the classes before mine,
[00:33:30.360]and that really helps me build those connections
[00:33:32.850]so that semesters aren't units unto themselves, right?
[00:33:39.240]We're building on these things
[00:33:40.980]and having that intertextuality.
[00:33:43.020]I'm a literacy person,
[00:33:44.010]so, like, of course that's intertextuality is is very-
[00:33:47.070]And novels and all of that. Right.
[00:33:48.780]Yeah.
[00:33:49.613]You know.
[00:33:50.446]And those are the metaphors,
[00:33:51.480]but what I do want to caution is when you're teaching for
[00:33:55.260]the first time, again, you've gotta protect yourself.
[00:33:57.420]You're doing this for the first time.
[00:33:59.160]It is not your job,
[00:34:00.600]if there isn't clarity in a program,
[00:34:02.550]it is not your job.
[00:34:03.466]Oh, yeah. As a graduate student
[00:34:04.410]or a first year faculty member to fix that.
[00:34:07.828]Oh, yeah. You do not try to fix that.
[00:34:09.330]You try to work within the parameters that already exist,
[00:34:12.360]try to understand them in the best way possible,
[00:34:14.970]and then do the best possible work that you can,
[00:34:17.550]knowing that the first time can be rough.
[00:34:20.220]Well, and knowing that sometimes,
[00:34:23.520]those supports aren't there.
[00:34:24.480]Yeah.
[00:34:25.313]Right?
[00:34:26.146]Like, sometimes, you are literally just dropped
[00:34:27.930]into a course-
[00:34:30.480]Uh-huh.
[00:34:31.313]And there's-
[00:34:32.820]I mean, I was dropped into a course
[00:34:37.680]in teaching special education and it was out of left field
[00:34:45.900]and it was a summer class and I taught it and I said,
[00:34:48.690]what is the course?
[00:34:50.850]And they told me, "Well,
[00:34:52.050]it's basically disability a day."
[00:34:54.870]And we had five weeks- Seems like a calendar.
[00:34:57.178]Yes, it was very much a calendar.
[00:34:58.220]We were doing autism spectrum disorder on Thursday,
[00:35:04.230]a learning disabilities and reading on Monday,
[00:35:07.170]and that's how the course went
[00:35:08.910]and I taught it exactly that way and I've never taught it
[00:35:11.550]that way ever again,
[00:35:13.140]but the first time, I just took it on
[00:35:15.630]and so there was no support.
[00:35:17.316]It was basically a set of PowerPoints.
[00:35:21.030]You take it and you make the best of it.
[00:35:22.590]You cannot fix that. It's not your job.
[00:35:23.873]Hey, at least you had PowerPoints.
[00:35:25.320]I did have PowerPoints.
[00:35:26.250]Sometimes you don't even have that.
[00:35:27.434]That is true. Right?
[00:35:28.300]And that's an issue in and of itself.
[00:35:31.590]So, when you are thinking about,
[00:35:35.370]if teaching is part of your package as a grad student,
[00:35:41.100]or when you first start as a new faculty member somewhere,
[00:35:44.610]ask about what are the existing structures for courses.
[00:35:49.560]Has there been the mapping?
[00:35:51.090]Is there a common set of resources for individual classes?
[00:35:59.760]Because you can't just assume that those are there, right?
[00:36:02.400]Like, other institutions I've been at, oh, great,
[00:36:05.610]you're teaching lip lock.
[00:36:06.750]Here's- Here's the box. Yeah.
[00:36:08.850]Here's all the articles. Everything's mapped out.
[00:36:11.790]Here's what you can play with. Here's what you can't.
[00:36:14.070]Here's what has to be taught.
[00:36:15.240]Here's where you can add some stuff in of your own,
[00:36:21.930]but that's not always the case.
[00:36:23.370]Yeah.
[00:36:24.570]So.
[00:36:25.590]Alright, so, we talked a little bit about teaching.
[00:36:28.320]We're probably going to talk about teaching again.
[00:36:30.780]Okay.
[00:36:31.680]There's a lot to be talked about,
[00:36:32.970]especially about that relationship with students,
[00:36:36.060]and which I think is worth talking about because, again,
[00:36:40.560]that is one of those differences between teaching K-12,
[00:36:44.730]or teaching in another country and teaching college
[00:36:47.190]in the United States,
[00:36:48.990]but that is for next time.
[00:36:53.220]So, you're cutting us off here is what you're saying?
[00:36:54.570]I am cutting us off and saying,
[00:36:56.460]we've talked about teaching quite a bit.
[00:36:58.020]There's a lot to process for everybody.
[00:37:00.480]There's a lot. There's a lot.
[00:37:02.136]I think the one last thing,
[00:37:04.980]that maybe we don't even have to talk about,
[00:37:06.420]but like, when you start teaching,
[00:37:09.060]be aware of what the institution tells you you have
[00:37:10.740]to have on your syllabus.
[00:37:11.970]Yes.
[00:37:13.140]Like, we don't really have to think about that.
[00:37:14.730]We just have to copy and paste.
[00:37:17.100]Please do that.
[00:37:18.150]But it's always something that I kind of forget about
[00:37:20.790]until the last minute.
[00:37:22.350]Oh, that's a nice advice at the end.
[00:37:24.720]Yeah. Right?
[00:37:25.553]Well, it's just, it's easy.
[00:37:26.386]Like, just do it. It's there.
[00:37:27.840]It's probably somewhere. Do a Google search.
[00:37:29.970]Ask someone. It's there.
[00:37:31.680]All the other stuff gets a little bit messier.
[00:37:34.830]Yeah.
[00:37:35.663]So.
[00:37:36.496]And the other piece is if you do have the opportunity
[00:37:40.350]to get somebody else's syllabus to start off with,
[00:37:43.170]you want to do that,
[00:37:44.670]even if you change it a little bit and make it your own
[00:37:48.060]after you teach it once or twice,
[00:37:49.650]because there's wisdom in that syllabus as it was made.
[00:37:53.400]It might be not exactly your wisdom, but it is,
[00:37:56.400]there's wisdom accumulated wisdom there.
[00:37:59.430]Yeah.
[00:38:00.263]Alright.
[00:38:01.096]Alright, so, we'll talk about teaching more next time.
[00:38:04.950]On "Not That Kind of Doctor."
[00:38:07.627]"Not That Kind of Doctor."
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Not That Kind of Doctor - Teaching in Higher Education

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