Verbing Science! with Shireen Adenwalla
Curt Bright
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02/09/2023
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3. Shireen Adenwalla, “Beauty, Symmetry, and Funsize Physics”
Have you ever learned a scientific fact and wondered, “How do they know that?” This happens a lot in physics, which often deals with things that are very far away like stars and black holes, or very small like atoms, electrons, and quarks. In this episode, Dr. Shireen Adenwalla introduces us to the nanoscopic world of condensed matter physics, which explains the behavior of familiar solids and liquids but also strange phenomena like superconductivity, superfluidity, and more. Through Shireen’s eyes, we begin to see how beautiful physics can be, but also how this artistic vision can help scientists do better science by finding clever ways to visualize phenomena they can’t observe directly.
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- [00:00:00.460](upbeat music)
- [00:00:07.710]Have you ever learned a scientific fact
- [00:00:09.870]and wondered, "But how do they know that?"
- [00:00:14.490]This happens a lot in physics,
- [00:00:16.200]which often deals with things
- [00:00:17.520]that are either very far away,
- [00:00:19.560]like stars and black holes,
- [00:00:21.690]or very small, like atoms, electrons, and even quarks.
- [00:00:26.160]Objects that are so distant or so tiny
- [00:00:28.800]that no matter how advanced our technology gets,
- [00:00:31.590]the very laws of the universe prevent us
- [00:00:34.080]from observing them directly.
- [00:00:36.810]In this episode, Dr. Shireen Adenwalla introduces us
- [00:00:39.780]to the nanoscopic world of condensed matter physics.
- [00:00:43.170]Which explains the behavior of familiar solids and liquids,
- [00:00:46.106]but also strange and beautiful phenomena
- [00:00:48.660]like super conductivity, super fluidity,
- [00:00:51.510]and other super things.
- [00:00:54.030]Shireen explains how the sense of wonder
- [00:00:56.460]and creativity fostered by the visual arts
- [00:00:59.070]can help scientists do better science,
- [00:01:01.800]by finding clever ways to visualize phenomena
- [00:01:04.740]we can't observe directly.
- [00:01:06.720]And how scientists in turn,
- [00:01:08.640]use scientific principles to create beautiful art.
- [00:01:12.240]I'm Jocelyn, and let's get verbing!
- [00:01:14.287](upbeat music)
- [00:01:23.970]Well of course, here everybody studies magnetism,
- [00:01:26.460]but magnetism is a beautiful phenomena.
- [00:01:28.620]Yeah, it is.
- [00:01:29.453]One of the phenomena I'm excited about in general
- [00:01:32.910]is superconductivity, because once again,
- [00:01:35.190]that's a many-body effect.
- [00:01:37.260]You know, you've got lots of electrons,
- [00:01:38.880]and yet somehow, they manage to make this,
- [00:01:43.620]wave function that is macroscopic, right?
- [00:01:50.730]Yeah, so I think superconductivity is beautiful,
- [00:01:52.950]and exciting and un-intuitive.
- [00:01:56.790]Yeah, right?
- [00:01:57.623]Non-intuitive, that's the word I'm looking for.
- [00:01:59.100]And it's quantum mechanics at our scale.
- [00:02:02.190]Yeah, at the scale (Bradley whooshing)
- [00:02:03.390]of your tummy, right. I just did a mind blowing.
- [00:02:06.210]So explain what superconductivity is
- [00:02:08.130]for those who may not know.
- [00:02:09.447]So, superconductivity and its cousin superfluidity,
- [00:02:12.840]is basically what happens as things get colder and colder,
- [00:02:17.430]is that they organize themselves differently,
- [00:02:20.310]and this reorganization of the electrons in one case,
- [00:02:23.490]and of the atoms in another,
- [00:02:25.290]allows them to travel freely through materials.
- [00:02:28.020]That's why in a superconductor,
- [00:02:29.100]the resistivity drops to zero.
- [00:02:31.440]And in a superconductor, for example,
- [00:02:33.180]and they've done these experiments,
- [00:02:34.350]and I don't remember how long.
- [00:02:36.030]In a superconductor, you can send in a current
- [00:02:39.150]with a source, a battery.
- [00:02:42.150]Then you can close the superconducting loop,
- [00:02:44.520]take the battery away,
- [00:02:45.990]and measure how long the current lives
- [00:02:47.520]in the superconductor, and it can live forever.
- [00:02:49.800]Well, I don't know about forever,
- [00:02:51.240]but it can live a long time.
- [00:02:53.670]So it's kinda like a normal material would be,
- [00:02:56.880]like, a mosh pit at a heavy metal concert,
- [00:02:59.898]whereas superconductivity-
- [00:03:01.148]Yes, but superconductor is formal.
- [00:03:01.981]Would be like line dancing.
- [00:03:03.120]No, it's extremely.
- [00:03:04.290]Formal.
- [00:03:05.123]They pair up, and then they're all on ice.
- [00:03:07.590]They're very, yes,
- [00:03:08.460]they can move smoothly through things
- [00:03:10.890]but without bumping, yes.
- [00:03:13.380]The dancing analogy,
- [00:03:14.460]we have a Funsize Physics
- [00:03:15.671]post about that. Yes, that's very cool.
- [00:03:16.710]We have a Funsize Physics post.
- [00:03:18.180]Go look for it. Yes.
- [00:03:19.013]We will link to it in the episode description.
- [00:03:20.820]So for more on superconductivity and superfluidity,
- [00:03:24.238]which is- Yes, and we have
- [00:03:25.071]superfluidity on Funsize Physics too.
- [00:03:27.420]So here, we're like the anti-molasses, right?
- [00:03:29.918]Yeah, the superfluids, yeah. That was a phrase used in
- [00:03:31.050]one of our posts where there- Yes, I mean, superfluids
- [00:03:32.790]just flow anywhere.
- [00:03:34.920]They're very beautiful.
- [00:03:35.820]So zero viscosity, that thickness
- [00:03:37.920]that you think of with honey
- [00:03:39.540]and other viscous liquids. Yes, pouring is very easy.
- [00:03:41.940]In fact, I think there's somewhere,
- [00:03:43.680]I think we tried to get this.
- [00:03:44.880]If you have a superfluid container,
- [00:03:46.260]a container with a superfluid,
- [00:03:47.730]it'll climb up the sides of the beaker.
- [00:03:49.740]Yes, I think we do have a video of that.
- [00:03:51.715]Do we have that video? Yes.
- [00:03:52.548]I think we have that video. That's very cool.
- [00:03:53.790]It's very cool.
- [00:03:54.623]So I did my undergraduate here.
- [00:03:56.190]I did the, it was the experimental class,
- [00:03:58.620]and me and my lab partner,
- [00:04:00.270]we finished all of our experiments, so we were done for the,
- [00:04:02.310]and we still had a couple weeks left in the semester,
- [00:04:04.020]and Herman Batelaan and, us two,
- [00:04:06.000]we tried to create a superfluid.
- [00:04:07.424]We didn't get the vacuum good enough,
- [00:04:08.790]but we tried really hard to.
- [00:04:10.740]He even bought helium and everything,
- [00:04:12.480]so we tried to do one. Really?
- [00:04:13.470]It should be pretty easy.
- [00:04:15.030]Yeah, we didn't, I know. (Jocelyn laughing)
- [00:04:15.900]It should be, right? I mean, you can go.
- [00:04:17.550]You can make. You can- If he bought the helium,
- [00:04:18.593]I think that you should be able to do it.
- [00:04:21.060]You should be able to pump on it.
- [00:04:22.520]I think, yeah. You gotta get it down
- [00:04:23.760]to about, yeah, 2.7? 2, 2.17, yeah.
- [00:04:27.100]Yeah, somewhere around there, yeah.
- [00:04:28.933]2.17 what, Brad?
- [00:04:31.110]Kelvin.
- [00:04:32.850]Degrees Kelvin, okay. That's how we roll.
- [00:04:34.200]So we're talking very cold.
- [00:04:35.441]We don't do Fahrenheit here. Yes, no, no.
- [00:04:36.897](Bradley laughing) Just making sure.
- [00:04:39.720]So Shireen, besides superconductivity and superfluidity,
- [00:04:44.190]what would you say have been some
- [00:04:45.510]of the most exciting developments
- [00:04:46.890]in condensed matter physics in the last-
- [00:04:48.150]So going back to superconductivity,
- [00:04:49.890]they now have magnetic superconductors.
- [00:04:52.260]They've now discovered superconductors
- [00:04:53.640]that are also magnetic, and-
- [00:04:56.280]Everything's better when it's magnetic.
- [00:04:58.020]No, but this is really exciting
- [00:04:59.340]because people used to think that magnetism
- [00:05:01.050]and superconductivity could not coexist.
- [00:05:03.300]Ah, yes. And now, you have
- [00:05:04.470]magnetic ordering with superconductors,
- [00:05:06.120]and that's really exciting,
- [00:05:08.939]and- Yeah, 'cause the trains.
- [00:05:10.709]'Cause now, they can create.
- [00:05:11.970]Yeah, but it's too cold But they're not exactly,
- [00:05:13.560]they use more of a diamagnet
- [00:05:15.090]right now, correct? (chime tinkling)
- [00:05:15.992]Yeah, so superconductors For the maglev trains
- [00:05:18.172]is what I'm talking about. are also perfect,
- [00:05:19.005]perfect diamagnets.
- [00:05:20.190]They expel all field, and there's this experiment
- [00:05:23.670]that I want them to try in the experimental lab.
- [00:05:27.780]You can cool one of these high-temperature superconductors
- [00:05:31.260]down to liquid nitrogens,
- [00:05:32.700]and then you can float a magnet above it.
- [00:05:34.253]It will just, you know, pushes out
- [00:05:36.300]all the magnetic field lines.
- [00:05:38.040]I think I saw a video of that
- [00:05:38.873]on YouTube one time. Yeah, there's a video,
- [00:05:40.050]but I want them to do it
- [00:05:40.883]'cause I think that'd be fun. Oh, that'd be fun, yeah.
- [00:05:42.780]'Cause they have a chunk
- [00:05:43.613]of superconductor, and they have liquid nitrogen, so.
- [00:05:46.170]Right. (chuckles)
- [00:05:47.003]What else are you gonna do, I mean
- [00:05:48.470]If you have those-
- [00:05:51.210]All of the ingredients are there.
- [00:05:52.890]So this all sounds fantastic, and awesome, and cool
- [00:05:55.500]and that's what appeals to me
- [00:05:57.720]about condensed matter physics, as you know
- [00:05:59.400]is just the wow, and the wonder factor.
- [00:06:02.460]But, as we've discussed on this podcast before,
- [00:06:05.130]condensed matter physics also, and perhaps,
- [00:06:07.200]is better known for,
- [00:06:08.520]a lot of the electronic applications
- [00:06:10.560]that we get out of it.
- [00:06:11.393]So in terms of those kinds of things,
- [00:06:13.860]the interesting,
- [00:06:16.560]new kinds of electronics
- [00:06:18.000]and ways of storing data,
- [00:06:19.260]what would you say have been the most
- [00:06:20.910]significant achievements there
- [00:06:22.200]in the last 10 or 20 years?
- [00:06:23.340]Well, the many, many different ways
- [00:06:25.320]that they store magnetic data now,
- [00:06:27.450]how they store it, how they read it,
- [00:06:28.830]how they write it, and there's more
- [00:06:32.760]techniques coming online all the time
- [00:06:34.680]this is one of the big questions of our time.
- [00:06:37.735]I have a picture somewhere of,
- [00:06:40.860]I think it was an Apple memory
- [00:06:42.690]in the early 80's.
- [00:06:45.570]And you can imagine a cube,
- [00:06:46.980]about 10 centimeters by 10 centimeters by 10 centimeters,
- [00:06:50.220]and they've got these little ring magnets
- [00:06:52.140]through which they're passing currents,
- [00:06:53.970]and they had all of, kilobytes of memory,
- [00:06:56.940]I think?
- [00:06:58.260]And, so magnets have been a mainstay
- [00:07:00.600]of memory circuits, right,
- [00:07:02.318]of memories, but, where we have come now,
- [00:07:05.430]I mean, now we have terabytes of memory
- [00:07:07.470]that's huge amounts of memory, right?
- [00:07:10.080]And basically you need- And cheap!
- [00:07:11.910]And cheap!
- [00:07:12.743]A little chip that can fit in your hand
- [00:07:14.760]Yeah, and cheap!
- [00:07:15.960]Cheap, yeah.
- [00:07:16.793]And that's the great thing about Moore's law,
- [00:07:18.350]it just keeps getting cheaper.
- [00:07:19.740]I knew Moore's law was gonna come up here,
- [00:07:21.870]yes, Brad had to go with Moore's law.
- [00:07:24.390]And looking for ways through condensed matter physics,
- [00:07:27.240]basically sort of reinventing matter itself
- [00:07:29.400]to try to overcome this.
- [00:07:30.233]That's true, that's true because
- [00:07:33.060]people now have a toolbox of magic materials
- [00:07:37.560]in some sense, that do things
- [00:07:39.030]that you wouldn't think they would.
- [00:07:41.490]And they have a toolbox of being able
- [00:07:43.800]to make things very thin, or very small
- [00:07:46.050]and their behavior is very different than it would be
- [00:07:49.380]if you had a chunk of it in your pocket.
- [00:07:51.750]So yeah, our toolbox has expanded tremendously.
- [00:07:54.541](upbeat music).
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