Not That Kind of Doctor - Publication Pipeline
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12/14/2022
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In this episode of "Not That Kind of Doctor," Guy and Nick delve into the complexities of academic writing and the challenges of maintaining a consistent publication pipeline. The conversation ranges from the struggles of developing a writing habit to the practical strategies that make academic productivity possible.
We share our personal experiences and offer insights into how to break down the seemingly magical process of writing into actionable steps. Whether you're a graduate student or an established academic, this episode offers valuable tips on navigating the demands of publishing, managing multiple projects, and the importance of daily writing practice.
đź“Ś Key Takeaways:
The Writing Struggle: Overcoming the challenges of writing, especially when it feels like an insurmountable task.
Daily Writing Practice: The importance of scheduling regular writing time and sticking to it, even when life gets in the way.
Publication Pipeline: Understanding the different types of academic publications, from journal articles to book chapters, and how to manage multiple projects simultaneously.
Accountability: The role of "accountabil-a-buddies" in maintaining productivity and keeping your writing on track.
Navigating Rejections: How to handle rejection letters, learn from feedback, and keep moving forward in your writing journey.
Whether you're new to academic writing or looking to refine your process, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you succeed in the world of academic publishing.
#AcademicWriting #PublicationPipeline #DailyWritingPractice #NotThatKindOfDoctor #AcademicProductivity
How do you stay on track with your writing? Share your tips and experiences in the comments below! Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more insights into academic life!
Publication Pipeline - Not That Kind of Doctor with Nick Husbye and Guy Trainin
www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor
Searchable Transcript
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- [00:00:00.000](bright music)
- [00:00:09.050]So that book I was reading, by the way...
- [00:00:11.280]Yeah.
- [00:00:12.113]Like, that character? Yeah.
- [00:00:12.946]Like, one, you need to read it.
- [00:00:14.532]Okay.
- [00:00:15.365]Two, the character who said, like,
- [00:00:16.590]who doesn't like teaching,
- [00:00:18.300]who doesn't love puppies,
- [00:00:19.650]is, like, you if you used your powers for not great.
- [00:00:22.583](Guy laughing)
- [00:00:23.880]Okay.
- [00:00:24.713]Thanks for that trigger warning.
- [00:00:26.730]Even to the point where like,
- [00:00:28.020]he's from Israel.
- [00:00:29.100]Oh, wow!
- [00:00:30.210]And I was like,
- [00:00:31.043]there are way too many similarities there.
- [00:00:32.910]But I laughed, I cried.
- [00:00:34.710]I literally... Oh, that's good.
- [00:00:36.880]Like, I was not expecting that from that book.
- [00:00:38.970]Oh. Okay.
- [00:00:40.130]So yeah. Anyway...
- [00:00:41.400]We can also do book talks. (laughing)
- [00:00:43.760]We can do book talks.
- [00:00:45.097]"Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow", Gabrielle Zevin.
- [00:00:47.790]Great book.
- [00:00:49.020]So, Guy.
- [00:00:50.430]Hi.
- [00:00:51.263]How you doing?
- [00:00:52.096]I'm well, I think.
- [00:00:54.360]You think?
- [00:00:55.290]Well, um,
- [00:00:57.660]talking about what we're gonna talk today,
- [00:00:59.550]which is the publication pipeline,
- [00:01:01.710]that always gets me a little bit going...
- [00:01:05.190]emotionally.
- [00:01:07.020]Tell me more.
- [00:01:08.764]Um...
- [00:01:09.810]Writing was a hard habit to develop for me.
- [00:01:14.070]Okay.
- [00:01:15.150]I didn't have a great examples in graduate school.
- [00:01:18.690]So that was really difficult.
- [00:01:21.720]I worked with two very experienced researchers
- [00:01:24.840]who were on a track where they were publishing a lot,
- [00:01:28.710]they were creating,
- [00:01:30.720]and it seemed magical to me.
- [00:01:33.060]They would sit down
- [00:01:34.230]and suddenly there would be a grant proposal
- [00:01:36.990]or something for publication kind of showing up.
- [00:01:41.880]And I was looking at that and thinking,
- [00:01:48.210]how do you do that?
- [00:01:49.380]That seems magical to me.
- [00:01:51.240]That seems like they know so much more.
- [00:01:53.940]They've gotta have some trick
- [00:01:56.520]or some talent that I really do not possess.
- [00:02:00.690]And so, to this day,
- [00:02:02.730]to a certain degree,
- [00:02:04.080]I struggle with that.
- [00:02:06.120]But one thing that I've learned from that
- [00:02:08.280]is to bring students, graduate students into my process
- [00:02:11.370]and to say,
- [00:02:13.200]this is how you do this.
- [00:02:14.340]It's hard.
- [00:02:15.173]It's sometimes painful.
- [00:02:16.200]You gotta sit and you gotta sit again.
- [00:02:18.360]And we meet on a regular basis
- [00:02:20.130]and we often just sit and write,
- [00:02:22.290]which is the one thing
- [00:02:23.310]that I think my graduate school experience didn't do for me
- [00:02:26.820]is, and to me,
- [00:02:28.260]but eh,
- [00:02:30.870]we didn't just sit and write.
- [00:02:33.330]So that conversation
- [00:02:35.160]that we're gonna have about create a habit
- [00:02:37.770]never actually happened.
- [00:02:39.060]Or at least I don't remember it happening.
- [00:02:41.070]Maybe it was there.
- [00:02:42.150]And it was doubly hard because my first-
- [00:02:44.035]You were absent that day.
- [00:02:44.891](Guy laughing)
- [00:02:45.724]You weren't there. I think so.
- [00:02:46.557]You were like,
- [00:02:47.390]"I'm staying home."
- [00:02:48.223]And so,
- [00:02:51.090]for me,
- [00:02:51.960]that brings baggage that I've had to learn to deal with.
- [00:02:56.700]And so that's still there.
- [00:02:58.110]And my first language is not English.
- [00:03:00.390]So that transition was difficult.
- [00:03:03.270]And what I've learned throughout the years is that
- [00:03:05.700]I'm not the only one struggling with prepositions.
- [00:03:09.810]English speakers do that too.
- [00:03:11.671]And prepositions is a really silly example
- [00:03:15.551]of the challenge between languages,
- [00:03:17.730]but it's actually real
- [00:03:18.960]because I sit often with graduate students
- [00:03:23.040]from other countries and we really have discussions about,
- [00:03:26.130]okay, we're saying in,
- [00:03:27.840]but in English, is it of or for,
- [00:03:30.660]and you can spend time just on that.
- [00:03:32.701]Oh, yeah. Sometimes.
- [00:03:33.600]Less productively maybe,
- [00:03:35.250]but it's part of the process.
- [00:03:37.860]Well, and this is all couched in this, like,
- [00:03:40.260]notion of publish or perish with academic jobs, right?
- [00:03:44.610]Like it is one of the assumptions for most academic jobs
- [00:03:49.470]that you apply for,
- [00:03:50.820]that you will be writing.
- [00:03:55.230]Yeah.
- [00:03:56.063]And so how do you break down this like magical
- [00:03:59.490]or seemingly magical process...
- [00:04:01.710]Mm hm.
- [00:04:02.543]Into things that are actually actionable?
- [00:04:05.610]Yeah.
- [00:04:06.443]Because, like, writing just doesn't happen.
- [00:04:07.830]Like you don't...
- [00:04:09.180]It's...
- [00:04:11.190]I always love talking with, like...
- [00:04:13.530]I remember my grandmother,
- [00:04:14.550]when I was writing my dissertation, she'd be like,
- [00:04:16.087]"So is your paper done yet?"
- [00:04:17.542](Guy laughing)
- [00:04:18.375]You know, like,
- [00:04:19.208]this dissertation is just like one big check mark.
- [00:04:22.740]Yes.
- [00:04:23.573]And,
- [00:04:25.080]I think the same thing happens like post dissertation
- [00:04:31.634]when you're like thinking about all the stuff
- [00:04:32.820]you need to do that week and you know,
- [00:04:35.730]write manuscript, check,
- [00:04:37.620]and that's the item on your to-do list.
- [00:04:39.390]But do you ever actually get to mark that item off?
- [00:04:43.170]Not if it's a whole manuscript.
- [00:04:44.640]Right. Not if it's a whole manuscript.
- [00:04:45.543]It's not that, I mean, like actionable.
- [00:04:48.167]So like, as we're thinking about academic writing,
- [00:04:54.090]and maybe before we go into how to,
- [00:04:55.650]it might be helpful to talk about,
- [00:04:57.750]there's all kinds of like different genres, right,
- [00:05:01.050]with academic writing,
- [00:05:02.250]there is, you know, the most common,
- [00:05:05.130]which are, you know,
- [00:05:06.030]journal articles which tend to go to journals, periodicals
- [00:05:11.940]that are typically focused around a particular idea
- [00:05:14.580]or concept.
- [00:05:15.900]Typically they're supported by a professional organization.
- [00:05:20.280]There's a peer review process normally for those articles
- [00:05:25.620]that kind of complicate how you have to think
- [00:05:29.160]about how long it takes from submitting an article
- [00:05:33.870]to it actually appearing in print or online.
- [00:05:38.610]'Cause there can be...
- [00:05:40.950]What's the longest you've waited
- [00:05:42.480]between submitting a manuscript and having it show up?
- [00:05:46.440]In the good old days,
- [00:05:47.820]I've had twice the case that somebody lost the manuscript,
- [00:05:51.900]especially between editors Let's not-
- [00:05:53.764]Because they were physical boxes.
- [00:05:55.618]Let's not scare people.
- [00:05:57.180]But eventually, they got published.
- [00:05:58.712]Okay.
- [00:05:59.545]There's power in that moment, by the way.
- [00:06:01.200]And we just had,
- [00:06:02.365]with a colleague of mine,
- [00:06:04.170]we just got accepted
- [00:06:06.000]and I think it's been two,
- [00:06:07.770]over two years in different iterations of reviews
- [00:06:12.690]because it is very common actually.
- [00:06:14.490]Most publications,
- [00:06:15.840]especially to journals go through multiple iterations.
- [00:06:18.630]And the first one is usually,
- [00:06:21.690]it's not quite good enough.
- [00:06:23.070]They revise and resubmit.
- [00:06:24.252]It's not quite good enough,
- [00:06:25.800]but you should work on it again and send it to us again.
- [00:06:28.530]Which is, I misunderstood when I was starting up as,
- [00:06:33.877]"Oh my God, they didn't like it."
- [00:06:35.640]And the answer is actually, yeah, they kind of did.
- [00:06:38.580]They're just saying you need to work a little bit more,
- [00:06:40.650]but we kind of like it and the odds immediately transform.
- [00:06:45.780]But that's just a piece of that.
- [00:06:49.110]So I've waited two, two and a half years for publications.
- [00:06:53.010]And you have to think that that might happen.
- [00:06:55.680]At best, it's probably a year.
- [00:06:58.800]Right.
- [00:06:59.730]And I think that's something
- [00:07:00.690]that I was not quite as prepared for,
- [00:07:04.230]like getting a sense of how long it takes
- [00:07:07.720]from something to go from accepted
- [00:07:10.500]and that doesn't include the revision process.
- [00:07:12.780]Yeah.
- [00:07:13.613]To actually appearing in the journal
- [00:07:16.530]as something that I can then list on my CV as like, done.
- [00:07:21.330]Yes.
- [00:07:22.163]I did this, right?
- [00:07:23.010]So those are journal articles.
- [00:07:25.770]There's also book chapters,
- [00:07:29.718]which are not...
- [00:07:31.470]You may disagree with me,
- [00:07:32.490]but I don't know that they're necessarily as well regarded.
- [00:07:36.540]They are not.
- [00:07:37.680]As a refereed journal article.
- [00:07:40.320]Yeah, I agree.
- [00:07:41.153]But I find them to be an interesting space
- [00:07:42.870]to play with ideas.
- [00:07:44.981]Mm hm.
- [00:07:45.814]And get some feedback on those ideas
- [00:07:48.000]and think through ways to use them to support work that I do
- [00:07:53.910]in journal articles.
- [00:07:55.260]Mm hm.
- [00:07:56.727]And those tend to have a slightly different time scale.
- [00:07:59.850]Yep.
- [00:08:00.683]To them.
- [00:08:01.516]And I...
- [00:08:03.730]So I would add a third form and that is proceedings.
- [00:08:10.020]So proceedings are certain conferences
- [00:08:14.520]when you actually get accepted,
- [00:08:17.790]the paper or the abstract will be in the proceedings,
- [00:08:21.090]which is counted as a publication,
- [00:08:23.790]but not quite as much as a journal article
- [00:08:26.610]with a few exceptions.
- [00:08:27.630]So there are actually conferences
- [00:08:30.090]that are so highly selective
- [00:08:32.250]that the proceedings are actually just as well regarded
- [00:08:36.030]as a publication.
- [00:08:36.863]And sometimes it's even harder to publish
- [00:08:38.670]in those proceedings at other places.
- [00:08:41.010]It's one of these things
- [00:08:42.690]where you need to know your area really well, I think,
- [00:08:45.930]to know how it's regarded
- [00:08:47.340]and ask if you are just beginning, you stepping out,
- [00:08:50.700]ask the advantage of the proceedings.
- [00:08:52.740]So what are you playing with?
- [00:08:54.910]You're playing with the odds that you will get published
- [00:08:58.740]and especially early on,
- [00:09:00.450]it is important to get published.
- [00:09:02.730]Publish or perish.
- [00:09:03.660]Yes.
- [00:09:04.500]And so you want to go into the odds business.
- [00:09:07.890]You have to think about odds.
- [00:09:09.090]Journal articles,
- [00:09:10.050]most of the professional journals that are well regarded
- [00:09:12.480]are accepting 20% or less.
- [00:09:15.060]That means that if you're sending something,
- [00:09:17.490]you are 80 to 90% likely to get a no.
- [00:09:20.910]And you have to know that.
- [00:09:22.650]Because otherwise it's crushing.
- [00:09:24.660]At this point in my career, it's not crushing anymore.
- [00:09:27.060]It's like one more person
- [00:09:28.560]doesn't like something I've written.
- [00:09:30.060]Okay, moving on.
- [00:09:32.157]But in the beginning, it was hard.
- [00:09:34.740]The first time I got a response that said,
- [00:09:37.320]you are not gonna get published.
- [00:09:39.780]I put it in a drawer and I let it wait three months.
- [00:09:42.690]And then the editor wrote me a note and said,
- [00:09:45.277]"Hey, we'd like to include your paper in the next issue
- [00:09:48.810]if you can get to the corrections."
- [00:09:50.730]And then I actually read the response.
- [00:09:52.130]So wait, wait, wait.
- [00:09:52.963]It was a revise and resubmit?
- [00:09:54.360]It was a soft revise and resubmit.
- [00:09:58.022]It's like,
- [00:09:58.855]it was actually, we like it,
- [00:10:00.600]but you need to do these three things. (laughs)
- [00:10:03.870]Oh, my gosh.
- [00:10:04.703]And I did not understand that well enough
- [00:10:06.450]because I did not have the emotional intelligence
- [00:10:12.510]and emotional capacity to actually take that.
- [00:10:15.150]Because I had a few rejections before that and I'm like,
- [00:10:17.640]I can't deal with this right now.
- [00:10:19.080]So I literally put it in a drawer.
- [00:10:21.030]You did not have a Larry McClesky.
- [00:10:23.370]Okay. Explain.
- [00:10:24.300]So Larry McClesky was one of my advising kind of people
- [00:10:28.680]at Indiana.
- [00:10:29.610]And his general rule of thumb was, like,
- [00:10:32.490]rejection happens.
- [00:10:33.510]It's gonna happen. Yes.
- [00:10:35.676]Like, it's gonna happen when you date,
- [00:10:37.260]it's gonna happen when you submit academic papers.
- [00:10:40.650]Hopefully not in the same manner.
- [00:10:42.532](Guy laughing)
- [00:10:43.365]But it's going to happen.
- [00:10:45.540]And so, when you get a rejection,
- [00:10:49.710]you're going to have an emotional reaction.
- [00:10:51.840]Mm hm. Right?
- [00:10:52.673]Because it's something that you've worked really hard on.
- [00:10:56.520]You do what you did, you put it in a drawer.
- [00:10:58.710]You give yourself 48 hours to have your feels
- [00:11:02.010]and be in your feels about it
- [00:11:03.420]and eat some ice cream and watch some sappy movies.
- [00:11:07.230]And then you actually like read it.
- [00:11:09.412]Yeah.
- [00:11:10.245]Because like,
- [00:11:11.078]that's one of the cool things about like peer review
- [00:11:13.380]is the fact that hopefully,
- [00:11:15.900]people have read through your materials
- [00:11:18.600]and they're thinking through ways to make it better.
- [00:11:21.390]That's not to say that like there's the reviewer two factor
- [00:11:24.930]that sometimes comes in where they're like, they just,
- [00:11:27.900]this study should have been this.
- [00:11:29.190]Yes, but that wasn't my study. Yeah.
- [00:11:30.540]Like, there's nothing I can do with feedback
- [00:11:34.950]that asks me to build a time machine, go back in time,
- [00:11:38.700]redo my study.
- [00:11:39.810]Like that's not helpful.
- [00:11:41.070]But for the most part, I would say,
- [00:11:42.930]peer review is super helpful. Yeah.
- [00:11:45.240]In helping me,
- [00:11:46.320]even the rejections think through
- [00:11:48.990]how to come at that differently for the next time.
- [00:11:53.040]And so that was always his point, like,
- [00:11:54.750]you get 48 hours to be in your feels
- [00:11:57.840]and then you go back at it.
- [00:11:59.790]And that's why we want to give this advice
- [00:12:01.560]because not everybody gets this advice.
- [00:12:04.170]You need to limit the time where you're reacting to it
- [00:12:07.380]and it gets better with time
- [00:12:08.610]because after you publish a few,
- [00:12:10.230]that's one of the things that happens,
- [00:12:11.850]is you get used to it.
- [00:12:13.260]It's never fun to say, to hear,
- [00:12:15.570]no, we will not publish this.
- [00:12:17.760]But whenever I go back,
- [00:12:19.470]even when I originally think it's like,
- [00:12:21.510]how can they not see the brilliance of this paper?
- [00:12:24.840]But-
- [00:12:26.220]Often.
- [00:12:27.118]Then I read the comments,
- [00:12:28.560]I'm like, oh yeah,
- [00:12:30.060]I can see that.
- [00:12:31.170]I can see how...
- [00:12:32.430]And often, I mean,
- [00:12:33.570]sometimes it's just, yeah,
- [00:12:36.090]that's not...
- [00:12:36.923]You are reading this in a way we didn't intend,
- [00:12:39.540]which means often,
- [00:12:41.550]I just did not do a good enough job explaining
- [00:12:44.250]what we wanted to do.
- [00:12:45.870]So being able,
- [00:12:47.130]so reading the critique, partially,
- [00:12:49.410]it's like how good of a communicator are you?
- [00:12:52.440]Is also a piece.
- [00:12:53.910]Sometimes they give good suggestions.
- [00:12:55.290]Sometimes it's like,
- [00:12:56.250]I just didn't explain this very well.
- [00:12:57.900]I need to go back
- [00:12:59.940]and just open up that line of thought that I thought,
- [00:13:04.380]you know, if I write one line or sometimes one word,
- [00:13:06.900]everybody understands what that is
- [00:13:08.550]and what I'm thinking on the inside.
- [00:13:10.170]They apparently they do not.
- [00:13:12.420]So, but that's journal articles.
- [00:13:14.820]But then if you think about
- [00:13:19.790]a plan of where am I going to send things?
- [00:13:23.640]Then you do some things in proceedings
- [00:13:26.010]and you do some things in chapters.
- [00:13:28.020]Chapters have a much higher...
- [00:13:29.670]Chapters in edited books have a much higher acceptance rate.
- [00:13:32.970]And my experience is about 60 to 75%,
- [00:13:36.420]sometimes even higher,
- [00:13:37.500]especially if you are invited to submit.
- [00:13:39.780]Proceedings are again, considerably higher.
- [00:13:42.360]It depends on the conference,
- [00:13:43.590]but it is considerably higher.
- [00:13:45.390]So, but again,
- [00:13:47.550]because they are considered in different ways,
- [00:13:49.590]you want to do different things in those things.
- [00:13:51.930]Right.
- [00:13:52.763]So the content is different as well.
- [00:13:54.540]And as you're thinking about,
- [00:13:56.220]the other thing to be thinking about,
- [00:13:58.530]and we'll talk more about this later,
- [00:13:59.790]is things are going to hit at different times, right?
- [00:14:03.510]And so, as you're looking at what your targets are
- [00:14:07.470]for your academic productivity within your job,
- [00:14:11.760]you're going to want to be thinking through
- [00:14:13.980]what's going to hit at the time scales
- [00:14:17.520]that I need it to in order to meet expectations for,
- [00:14:23.700]you know, whatever is laid out in my academic position.
- [00:14:27.570]Right? Yeah.
- [00:14:28.500]And so,
- [00:14:29.452]that all kind of is like the big ideas between,
- [00:14:35.550]or that under this idea that
- [00:14:39.360]writing needs to be kind of a daily practice.
- [00:14:43.170]Absolutely.
- [00:14:44.003]Right? Like, and that's,
- [00:14:45.210]as you were saying earlier,
- [00:14:46.650]like that was the one thing that like,
- [00:14:48.360]it just seems like things just magically appear, right?
- [00:14:52.786]Like, I remember in grad school,
- [00:14:54.180]Karen Wohlwend would just like,
- [00:14:56.160]have these articles magically appear.
- [00:14:59.310]And it was just amazing how that happened.
- [00:15:03.810]Yeah.
- [00:15:04.643]But the thing that finally kind of clued me in was,
- [00:15:08.796]she was a really good mentor in terms of thinking through
- [00:15:12.420]how to show us, as grad students,
- [00:15:15.330]like the time that she put into writing.
- [00:15:17.490]And one of the things that she was very clear about was
- [00:15:22.200]you schedule time with yourself to write
- [00:15:25.230]and you schedule time daily.
- [00:15:28.650]Yeah.
- [00:15:31.054]And the way you schedule
- [00:15:33.360]has a lot to do with what your other duties are
- [00:15:36.600]and your personal life.
- [00:15:37.830]So for example, there was a period in my life,
- [00:15:40.080]and that was actually a piece of advice
- [00:15:43.595]from our previous Dean.
- [00:15:45.660]And I was early in the morning,
- [00:15:48.120]I would wake up early around 5, 5:30,
- [00:15:51.210]I did a morning ritual.
- [00:15:52.500]And then I had an hour before kids woke up
- [00:15:55.020]and we needed to start delivering
- [00:15:56.760]because I had four kids at that time.
- [00:15:58.680]We needed to deliver four kids to four different schools
- [00:16:01.260]for a few years.
- [00:16:02.700]Mayhem started at that moment and then,
- [00:16:06.570]going to teach,
- [00:16:08.760]and everything else happened during the day.
- [00:16:10.530]And I knew I wouldn't have,
- [00:16:11.970]because writing doesn't require just time,
- [00:16:14.130]but it requires quiet, distraction-free time.
- [00:16:17.550]You need to close down.
- [00:16:19.080]So during that hour that I had in the morning,
- [00:16:21.780]I turned off all the bells and whistles.
- [00:16:24.090]Actually, I turned them off forever.
- [00:16:26.280]My phone doesn't buzz,
- [00:16:27.570]my email doesn't shine,
- [00:16:29.640]I don't have too many counters that say,
- [00:16:32.580]there are things waiting for your attention.
- [00:16:34.350]And I would just sit and write.
- [00:16:36.480]And that was a golden opportunity.
- [00:16:40.350]Other times it happened in the afternoons
- [00:16:42.360]when I started finding time during the day.
- [00:16:45.150]It happened in other times.
- [00:16:46.800]Then I became an administrator.
- [00:16:48.150]And I had to again, find critical times
- [00:16:52.410]where I knew I wasn't in the office.
- [00:16:54.240]Because if you're in the office and you're an administrator,
- [00:16:56.310]or sometimes as a teacher,
- [00:16:57.660]you've got your students coming in
- [00:16:58.860]and you want to give them the time and you're going to,
- [00:17:00.897]and that's fine.
- [00:17:02.460]But then you've gotta make sure
- [00:17:04.830]that there's a separate time somewhere in your day.
- [00:17:07.650]Even if you have to leave campus.
- [00:17:09.060]And I left,
- [00:17:09.893]I simply would leave campus an hour early.
- [00:17:11.640]I would go to a coffee shop and sit for an hour.
- [00:17:14.340]And work because again, it's gotta be daily.
- [00:17:18.060]Mm hm.
- [00:17:18.893]And I've had too many graduate students,
- [00:17:21.120]especially at the dissertation phase that would say,
- [00:17:24.337]"Oh, I'm gonna take two weeks
- [00:17:25.920]and go to the New Mexico Mountains
- [00:17:28.222]and write and the dissertation will be done."
- [00:17:31.110]And it's like, it never,
- [00:17:33.600]writing never ever happens that way.
- [00:17:36.030]But isn't that like the myth of writing though?
- [00:17:38.130]Yes.
- [00:17:38.963]I think Amy Poehler writes about this so beautifully
- [00:17:41.160]in her book where she was like,
- [00:17:42.540]I had this vision
- [00:17:43.590]that I was gonna be writing in my Lake Tahoe resort
- [00:17:47.310]and I was gonna be wearing the robe.
- [00:17:48.780]And it was just gonna be this thing.
- [00:17:50.580]And like the reality of it is,
- [00:17:53.610]like you show up every day in front of your computer
- [00:17:56.760]with your data,
- [00:17:58.050]with your lit review and you plug away at it.
- [00:18:01.380]Yeah.
- [00:18:02.213]And some days you write a hundred words.
- [00:18:05.100]Some days you write 600 words.
- [00:18:08.190]But the important thing there is that you are writing it.
- [00:18:11.520]You've scheduled time with yourself to do this work.
- [00:18:17.730]Yeah.
- [00:18:18.660]And you stick with it.
- [00:18:19.890]Like this is probably one of the easiest things to give up.
- [00:18:25.320]Yes.
- [00:18:26.153]In your day.
- [00:18:26.986]Yeah. In your day.
- [00:18:27.819]Like, oh, I'm gonna give up my writing time.
- [00:18:29.880]But I've literally, in my Outlook calendar
- [00:18:33.540]have scheduled my writing times
- [00:18:37.170]and those don't get interrupted.
- [00:18:39.120]Like, those...
- [00:18:40.410]Sorry, I can't meet with you then.
- [00:18:41.863]Yeah.
- [00:18:42.696]I can't, like,
- [00:18:43.551]it's part of my job description that I do this
- [00:18:46.980]and I'm in a little bit of a sticky situation
- [00:18:50.250]because of the...
- [00:18:51.083]I had some medical stuff happen in the spring
- [00:18:53.468]that totally messed up my academic,
- [00:18:55.950]my publishing pipeline.
- [00:18:57.510]I missed some revise and resubmits.
- [00:18:59.220]Those journals have been very nice
- [00:19:00.540]and have allowed me to resubmit those materials.
- [00:19:04.020]But like I had a good three months while I recovered
- [00:19:09.360]that I couldn't engage in daily practice,
- [00:19:12.960]partially because oxy is, wow, bad,
- [00:19:18.810]back surgery is not fun.
- [00:19:21.120]And trying to like string together
- [00:19:23.190]a coherent academic thought was not gonna happen, right?
- [00:19:27.858]So like... Yeah.
- [00:19:29.580]But I found myself in the position where like,
- [00:19:33.060]having to get back into that daily practice.
- [00:19:35.370]And you've seen me this semester,
- [00:19:37.590]just like trying, getting back into it.
- [00:19:40.320]It's hard.
- [00:19:41.153]Writing daily, right?
- [00:19:42.600]And particularly,
- [00:19:43.433]when you've worked really hard at establishing your pipeline
- [00:19:46.500]and then find out that you have to redo it
- [00:19:48.390]because your body's just decided your middle age now
- [00:19:50.880]and now and it's gonna break and it's gonna cause problems.
- [00:19:54.931]As it happens.
- [00:19:55.880]So in terms of a long or longer career,
- [00:19:58.920]I don't wanna say long career, but a longer career,
- [00:20:01.200]you also have to identify,
- [00:20:02.430]and that goes back to finding that time,
- [00:20:04.260]is that at different points in our lives,
- [00:20:07.110]we function differently.
- [00:20:08.250]So I used to be able to write at night,
- [00:20:10.980]fairly late at night,
- [00:20:12.570]being a night person.
- [00:20:13.860]That thing went and I went to an early morning.
- [00:20:16.680]So you have to realize also
- [00:20:19.020]that you can't fight whatever's happening around you.
- [00:20:22.920]And you have to consider it and just find new ways.
- [00:20:26.640]And this is where having an accountability partner
- [00:20:30.780]that is also-
- [00:20:31.613]Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:20:33.150]Okay.
- [00:20:36.240]Do you not like accountabil-a-buddies?
- [00:20:37.680]I don't think I can say that actually.
- [00:20:39.488]Accountabil-a-buddies?
- [00:20:40.613]Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:20:42.110]Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:20:43.740]All right.
- [00:20:44.592]Accountabil-a-buddies. Oh, look at that!
- [00:20:46.230]And that is critical
- [00:20:48.840]because you can have that conversation.
- [00:20:50.460]I've been scheduling this time,
- [00:20:53.340]I've always counted on nighttime,
- [00:20:55.080]this isn't working for me.
- [00:20:56.280]So having somebody to talk through those moments
- [00:20:59.580]is really important.
- [00:21:01.260]Having an accountabil-a-buddy.
- [00:21:04.011]Oh! Nicely done.
- [00:21:07.770]Proud of you.
- [00:21:08.603]It is critical because again,
- [00:21:11.370]going back to nobody sees when you give up on writing,
- [00:21:14.820]right?
- [00:21:15.653]Nobody can see that except you.
- [00:21:17.370]So it's the easiest thing to give up on
- [00:21:19.770]and it's the most stressful thing to give up on
- [00:21:22.650]because it accumulates.
- [00:21:24.090]And you don't practice that muscle of just sitting down
- [00:21:27.090]and producing.
- [00:21:28.170]And that kind of snowballs in many, many ways.
- [00:21:32.010]And so creating that situation
- [00:21:33.780]where you are either writing with somebody
- [00:21:35.580]or you are,
- [00:21:36.753]whatever your choices are.
- [00:21:38.520]At least you're making someone aware, right?
- [00:21:40.157]Yes.
- [00:21:40.990]Like all this semester I've been like,
- [00:21:41.823]this is what I'm working on, Guy.
- [00:21:43.110]Yeah.
- [00:21:44.265]And you've held me accountable to it
- [00:21:45.780]and it's it in. That's right.
- [00:21:46.680]Yeah, right.
- [00:21:47.513]So like...
- [00:21:48.346]And we do that with others
- [00:21:49.620]and I do that a lot with graduate students
- [00:21:52.260]and junior faculty is we sit together.
- [00:21:54.120]For me, the most effective way
- [00:21:55.740]is actually to sit with other people
- [00:21:57.540]because when I'm on my own,
- [00:21:59.460]I'm a lot less accountable
- [00:22:00.810]and I find lots of other things to do.
- [00:22:03.120]Well, and I think too,
- [00:22:04.530]there's an important part there
- [00:22:05.910]where like when we sit down and we write as a group,
- [00:22:09.990]it's what is your goal today?
- [00:22:12.500]Is it instead of like write manuscript?
- [00:22:16.050]Yes.
- [00:22:16.883]I'm gonna write 300 words on my literature review.
- [00:22:18.930]I'm going to revise paragraphs eight through 16.
- [00:22:24.750]Like, actionable items are super important.
- [00:22:29.310]Thinking through what is it that you will actually engage in
- [00:22:33.210]that will get work done
- [00:22:34.380]and push you forward with that manuscript daily
- [00:22:38.880]is gonna lead up eventually to that like send manuscript in.
- [00:22:42.870]Like you can check that off.
- [00:22:44.130]But it's all these smaller actions
- [00:22:46.110]that add up to that bigger action.
- [00:22:49.560]And the thing that helps,
- [00:22:51.210]and it's not exactly around this topic,
- [00:22:53.880]but the thing that I find helping,
- [00:22:55.230]and you talked about Amy Poehler
- [00:22:56.850]and I think about other authors
- [00:22:58.740]that have read throughout the years,
- [00:23:01.230]is that reading about other writers
- [00:23:04.500]and how they go through their process is critical
- [00:23:07.620]because it reinvigorates you.
- [00:23:09.390]When you hear that John Grisham
- [00:23:11.910]or whoever it is that you're reading at that moment,
- [00:23:15.690]that's what they do.
- [00:23:16.523]They like, we are authors,
- [00:23:18.540]we take six hours every morning,
- [00:23:20.100]we wake up.
- [00:23:20.933]That's what most of them would say
- [00:23:22.170]when they're honest about it.
- [00:23:23.550]I have a schedule and I sit down and I write,
- [00:23:26.340]and then when I'm done writing, I do other things.
- [00:23:28.830]It's a job.
- [00:23:30.090]And I prepare and I have my corner
- [00:23:32.880]and everything is ready so I don't waste time.
- [00:23:35.190]And reading that repeatedly,
- [00:23:37.290]I find myself having to go back
- [00:23:39.030]to my favorite authors about writing
- [00:23:41.990]repeatedly to just remind me,
- [00:23:43.920]yes, everybody goes through this.
- [00:23:45.870]It's painful for, even for people who...
- [00:23:48.846]I mean writing is part of making a living.
- [00:23:51.180]It's not everything.
- [00:23:52.290]But even people who do this every day have to work at it,
- [00:23:57.690]have to set a schedule,
- [00:23:59.370]have to really have a sense of
- [00:24:02.790]how do I get from point A to point B?
- [00:24:05.730]What are the pieces?
- [00:24:07.080]Well, and I think too,
- [00:24:08.370]there's another shift there
- [00:24:09.900]when we're talking about how to be successful
- [00:24:13.080]in academic writing,
- [00:24:14.310]where as a graduate student,
- [00:24:16.050]you're very much used to,
- [00:24:17.970]you're working on your dissertation.
- [00:24:19.230]Is this one piece versus if you're really thinking
- [00:24:22.560]about a publication pipeline and time scale,
- [00:24:26.490]you have to work on multiple pieces at the same time.
- [00:24:30.780]And I keep thinking of like Gary Schmidt
- [00:24:34.710]who writes children's literature, children's novels.
- [00:24:40.530]He's also a professor
- [00:24:42.180]and he would talk about
- [00:24:43.680]how he's got multiple projects going on at one time
- [00:24:48.046]and he's always shifting back and forth between them.
- [00:24:51.060]So any given day, as he's engaged in this daily practice,
- [00:24:55.590]one day you might work on article one,
- [00:24:57.840]you might work the next day on book chapter,
- [00:25:00.750]you might work the next day on article three.
- [00:25:03.420]But it's- Yeah.
- [00:25:06.031]It's juggling the manuscripts.
- [00:25:09.030]It's thinking through how,
- [00:25:11.790]how you can work on multiple projects at one time.
- [00:25:15.870]And that was a,
- [00:25:17.670]for me at least, a slightly larger shift
- [00:25:21.900]as I had to think a little bit more strategically about
- [00:25:25.890]when I'm working on what and with whom.
- [00:25:28.650]Yeah. So like, what are...
- [00:25:31.260]I know you have,
- [00:25:32.093]right now you have multiple projects.
- [00:25:34.020]Yeah.
- [00:25:34.853]Because like you've said,
- [00:25:35.686]you've pulled your grad students into that work.
- [00:25:38.351]So as you're thinking about like,
- [00:25:40.920]how many projects can you juggle,
- [00:25:42.600]how many writing projects can you juggle at one time?
- [00:25:45.900]What's kind of your rule for that?
- [00:25:47.460]I'm a three kind of guy.
- [00:25:49.140]I feel like I can juggle three fairly well.
- [00:25:52.200]When I get into four, things start slipping up.
- [00:25:55.380]So for me, I think about it a little bit wider.
- [00:25:58.590]So it's not just the writing and publication,
- [00:26:00.750]is where it gets longer.
- [00:26:01.860]Especially when you do empirical research.
- [00:26:03.840]There's also the grant writing
- [00:26:06.390]and then the data collection and the doing.
- [00:26:09.270]And so it all leads.
- [00:26:10.680]So I have probably five or six pieces at any given point.
- [00:26:14.940]But because I tend to write with co-authors,
- [00:26:19.650]I'm manipulating probably two to three texts
- [00:26:23.460]at any given point.
- [00:26:25.020]If there are more in my pipeline,
- [00:26:27.531]right now, I have probably six in my pipeline.
- [00:26:30.463]That means that somebody else is right now
- [00:26:32.670]doing a piece of the writing.
- [00:26:33.780]Mm hm.
- [00:26:35.220]You know, one of the,
- [00:26:37.020]a graduate student or a colleague
- [00:26:38.790]is doing the method section or the results section.
- [00:26:41.940]And I'm not touching it right now.
- [00:26:43.590]I'll get back to it when we finish.
- [00:26:45.960]And especially in quantitative analysis,
- [00:26:48.390]you gotta get through the analysis first
- [00:26:50.130]because you don't know where it's gonna take you
- [00:26:51.960]in some ways.
- [00:26:52.980]And it reshapes not necessarily the lit review,
- [00:26:56.700]but it's going to reshape everything that happens later.
- [00:26:59.490]So for example,
- [00:27:00.323]we're looking right now at
- [00:27:02.250]how parents communicate with schools through digital means.
- [00:27:05.100]This is a bigger part of a bigger analysis
- [00:27:09.600]of some federally collected data.
- [00:27:13.470]And before we saw the results, we can guess at it,
- [00:27:17.430]but we didn't know what we were gonna find.
- [00:27:19.500]So right now somebody else is doing that piece
- [00:27:21.750]and then I'll come back at the end
- [00:27:23.280]and help with the discussion.
- [00:27:25.440]And so it feels like actively,
- [00:27:27.030]you're at right around the same number that I tend to be at.
- [00:27:30.083]I think that more than that,
- [00:27:31.830]your brain is starting to come unglued.
- [00:27:33.883]I just find it,
- [00:27:35.070]I lose the details. Yeah.
- [00:27:36.360]And that's problematic. Yeah.
- [00:27:38.160]Very problematic.
- [00:27:39.120]But you also highlight
- [00:27:40.560]a big part of the publication pipeline
- [00:27:42.150]is not just making sure
- [00:27:44.070]that you've scheduled time for your writing,
- [00:27:45.600]but that you have active data collection happening.
- [00:27:50.820]Like you're writing about data you've collected past tense.
- [00:27:53.730]Yeah.
- [00:27:54.563]And then you're also actively collecting new data.
- [00:27:59.130]Once you get those manuscripts out,
- [00:28:02.250]you can move on to your next manuscript thinking about like,
- [00:28:05.160]what's the next piece you're going to be moving?
- [00:28:08.370]So it's this constant iterative cycle of-
- [00:28:13.320]Yes.
- [00:28:14.153]Building up your,
- [00:28:15.720]literally that pipeline,
- [00:28:17.220]making sure you have something to move to next.
- [00:28:19.020]And something that I think is really important
- [00:28:21.690]is gonna be really helpful
- [00:28:23.340]for anybody who's starting out
- [00:28:25.650]again as a graduate student definitely
- [00:28:27.900]and as an early career scholar
- [00:28:30.570]is map the terrain of publications in your field.
- [00:28:34.410]Know which journals are publishing,
- [00:28:36.660]what are they publishing,
- [00:28:38.070]what are their acceptance rates?
- [00:28:40.110]Read a few things from each one of those
- [00:28:42.270]so you know what the genre is,
- [00:28:43.770]how long it's going to be.
- [00:28:45.060]Because often, I'm right now sitting on a manuscript
- [00:28:48.690]that's about 15,000 words,
- [00:28:50.220]which nobody almost publishes in journals.
- [00:28:52.560]We need to shrink it.
- [00:28:53.580]But there's a difference between shrinking it
- [00:28:55.260]to about 10,000 words,
- [00:28:56.550]which is a longer piece in a journal
- [00:28:58.860]and 7,500 words, which is tiny.
- [00:29:03.440]Can you break in two?
- [00:29:04.710]And sometimes we break it in two
- [00:29:06.390]and sometimes there's not enough.
- [00:29:07.980]But you've got to...
- [00:29:10.800]Often, I think as scholars,
- [00:29:13.920]we try to be holistic and include a lot.
- [00:29:16.860]And often in,
- [00:29:18.480]especially in large projects, there's just too much.
- [00:29:21.450]Nobody can read it.
- [00:29:22.560]Maybe if you wrote it as a manuscript, as a book,
- [00:29:25.620]which we haven't talked about books,
- [00:29:27.595]but if you want to publish a manuscript,
- [00:29:30.210]maybe that will work.
- [00:29:31.860]But in any other world,
- [00:29:33.840]you've got to chop it up and it feels artificial
- [00:29:36.900]and it feels like you're not giving the complexity it's due.
- [00:29:41.940]But there's no way to fit, you know,
- [00:29:44.490]a five-year project into a 7,000 word document
- [00:29:50.490]and do it justice. Right.
- [00:29:51.447]You gotta do it in pieces. Right.
- [00:29:53.640]And that's where the pipeline comes in and it's like,
- [00:29:56.730]I'm gonna do this piece early on
- [00:29:58.620]and this piece in the middle
- [00:29:59.850]and this piece at the end.
- [00:30:02.220]Longer term projects,
- [00:30:03.720]that's advice we just talked about.
- [00:30:05.670]If you have a long-term project,
- [00:30:08.070]don't wait till it's done to start publishing.
- [00:30:10.470]That's too late.
- [00:30:11.400]Especially if you're early career,
- [00:30:12.660]if you're a graduate student,
- [00:30:14.070]you want to start publishing early.
- [00:30:15.870]Because if it's a five-year project,
- [00:30:17.940]right now I have a five-year project.
- [00:30:19.410]If I wait five years
- [00:30:20.460]and then the two years it gets to get published,
- [00:30:22.380]that means for seven years, maybe nothing is happening.
- [00:30:24.690]That is not acceptable.
- [00:30:25.800]You've gotta have a pipeline.
- [00:30:27.150]Mm hm.
- [00:30:27.983]Well, and the other thing to think about in terms of like,
- [00:30:30.690]which slice of this study are you talking about, like,
- [00:30:36.060]think about your citations as in your publication pipeline
- [00:30:40.140]really as chapters in that larger project,
- [00:30:42.810]in that larger story,
- [00:30:43.890]how are you packaging- Yeah.
- [00:30:46.260]With enough complexity to understand this slice,
- [00:30:48.990]but how this slice relates to this slice.
- [00:30:51.863]Like your research articles in your book chapters
- [00:30:55.590]and your books, if you write a book,
- [00:30:57.360]should all be somewhat linked together
- [00:31:00.330]to tell a more cohesive story.
- [00:31:02.700]And I think that's part of the strategy
- [00:31:05.700]of creating that publication pipeline, right?
- [00:31:10.890]So, and this is where early on,
- [00:31:14.010]my advice at least to graduate students especially,
- [00:31:16.620]is diversify early.
- [00:31:18.120]Mm hm.
- [00:31:19.080]So say yes to almost any writing project in the beginning.
- [00:31:23.040]Because when you're just starting out,
- [00:31:24.330]you don't know what you like writing,
- [00:31:25.770]you don't know what speaks to you,
- [00:31:27.270]you don't know which one of these avenues
- [00:31:29.310]would be most helpful.
- [00:31:31.920]And then as you become a professional,
- [00:31:35.670]start narrowing down and focusing,
- [00:31:38.490]because especially in that period,
- [00:31:40.260]as young scholars from getting the job to tenure,
- [00:31:45.060]focus is what's gonna get you there.
- [00:31:47.310]And it can happen in other ways.
- [00:31:49.110]It did for me.
- [00:31:49.943]So I'll, full disclosure,
- [00:31:52.500]I had like three different areas of research early on.
- [00:31:57.090]But that made for a complicated file to put together.
- [00:32:00.360]That was not easy and it was not universally well accepted.
- [00:32:04.620]And so, that's not what I would advise.
- [00:32:07.380]It can happen and you can make it through.
- [00:32:10.650]I'm here.
- [00:32:12.090]But- Started from the bottom.
- [00:32:13.050]It's a challenge.
- [00:32:14.310]Usually what happens to scholars is they,
- [00:32:17.368]and I don't know if that happened to you,
- [00:32:19.710]but you kind of make,
- [00:32:22.052]there are moments in your career when you can make a turn.
- [00:32:24.180]For example, after you get tenure and you get promoted,
- [00:32:27.780]you can rethink your research agenda
- [00:32:29.580]and go in a completely new direction.
- [00:32:31.530]And I did at that moment in time.
- [00:32:34.320]There was time.
- [00:32:35.490]I got healthier too.
- [00:32:37.890]Really important.
- [00:32:39.150]But I also thought about my career and I thought,
- [00:32:42.330]okay, I've done all of these things,
- [00:32:43.680]but right now, I would like to focus.
- [00:32:45.390]And that's when I started working on new media
- [00:32:49.650]and technology integrated with literacy.
- [00:32:54.840]And so, I took a certain turn.
- [00:32:57.360]But it was at that point in time,
- [00:32:58.993]I was mature enough to think about it as I'm now pivoting
- [00:33:03.150]because this is a good time to do a pivot
- [00:33:05.220]and commit to a new direction,
- [00:33:06.600]which I've been on since.
- [00:33:08.580]So it doesn't mean it's the only thing I do.
- [00:33:12.330]I mean, you're a jack of all trades.
- [00:33:14.520]I am.
- [00:33:16.650]Sometimes usefully.
- [00:33:18.930]I mean- And sometimes less.
- [00:33:20.190]I would say 98% usefully.
- [00:33:25.140]Okay.
- [00:33:25.973]I'll take that.
- [00:33:27.099]But it has a cost.
- [00:33:29.700]And that is, I run between manuscripts right now.
- [00:33:32.370]The three that I'm working on actively
- [00:33:34.500]are very, very different.
- [00:33:36.750]And advantage is I'm finding points of convergence suddenly
- [00:33:39.990]where it's like,
- [00:33:40.890]oh, and I have an internal revelation of,
- [00:33:44.250]I can bring those two pieces together.
- [00:33:46.290]So teacher agency is one of those things for me right now
- [00:33:49.050]that is very current.
- [00:33:50.070]But, so there's advantages there.
- [00:33:52.020]But yes, it is about having a program
- [00:33:54.360]and kind of charting this out.
- [00:33:56.040]And I'm finding as I'm gaining experience,
- [00:34:00.600]I'm more structured.
- [00:34:02.040]So I'm more in the direction of having Excel sheets
- [00:34:04.530]and meeting schedules and all of that
- [00:34:08.700]that I did not have early in my career.
- [00:34:11.670]And I find this extremely helpful.
- [00:34:14.250]See?!
- [00:34:16.380]I'm coming over to the Excel side.
- [00:34:18.660]Well, I need you to come into the Google sheet side
- [00:34:21.017]'cause Excel's a little clunky, but-
- [00:34:25.020]Oh yeah, we haven't said this,
- [00:34:27.180]and Google is not paying us,
- [00:34:29.250]but Google Docs is the magic of writing with other people.
- [00:34:34.617]Oh, my gosh. If I could-
- [00:34:35.970]There's nothing better.
- [00:34:36.803]If I had a nickel for every time
- [00:34:40.020]I have written on an academic manuscript
- [00:34:42.750]while in line at a Target...
- [00:34:45.746](Guy laughing)
- [00:34:47.190]I would probably at least have enough money
- [00:34:50.580]to get a soda out of the soda machine.
- [00:34:53.100]And that's at least $2.
- [00:34:54.548](Guy chuckling) Yes.
- [00:34:55.410]So I mean it's, again, it's that whole notion of like,
- [00:34:58.530]you're never, writing is never like this perfect,
- [00:35:01.950]I'm gonna sit at my desk
- [00:35:03.150]and the wind is gonna blow the trees and the cherry blossoms
- [00:35:06.990]and I'm gonna listen to classical music
- [00:35:08.370]and I'm just gonna type away.
- [00:35:09.900]Like, that's not when it happens.
- [00:35:11.160]It happens when,
- [00:35:12.300]oh, I thought about this sentence,
- [00:35:13.800]let me get out my phone,
- [00:35:14.790]get into my Google draft,
- [00:35:15.810]do, do do, do, do.
- [00:35:16.643]Okay, done.
- [00:35:17.700]And then I move on.
- [00:35:18.840]Like, it happens and starts and stops.
- [00:35:21.630]And it's not always pretty.
- [00:35:24.720]But it is this hustle,
- [00:35:27.690]it's this daily practice. Yes.
- [00:35:29.940]That once you schedule that time,
- [00:35:33.060]you sit and you work on something actionable.
- [00:35:37.560]And two things that I want to throw
- [00:35:40.680]when you talk about that daily practice,
- [00:35:42.510]one is that that keeps going back to your idea
- [00:35:46.290]about sentences that keeps those sentences
- [00:35:48.360]and those topics alive in your brain,
- [00:35:50.160]which means you're constantly thinking about it.
- [00:35:52.170]When you leave a manuscript for two months,
- [00:35:54.150]which has just happened to me with a colleague,
- [00:35:56.910]coming back to it, you're like,
- [00:35:58.800]you need two sessions of just remembering what was it
- [00:36:03.960]that you were writing about and how,
- [00:36:06.360]that's one.
- [00:36:07.193]The second thing is,
- [00:36:08.026]if you're having a hard time starting,
- [00:36:09.750]one of the things that I've done early
- [00:36:11.400]and I still do occasionally, as an ID development,
- [00:36:17.880]lab of sorts, is blogging.
- [00:36:20.550]I have a short blog and I just throw ideas.
- [00:36:23.130]They are never complete,
- [00:36:24.360]they are never fully thought out.
- [00:36:28.740]It's a place where I play with ideas
- [00:36:30.750]that I will later will find a way to articles
- [00:36:34.710]or to chapters or wherever.
- [00:36:37.680]So fragments of those ideas.
- [00:36:39.330]But I use that, first of all,
- [00:36:40.890]just to write without the idea of,
- [00:36:43.560]I'm gonna get this published,
- [00:36:44.670]and people then go like it or not like it,
- [00:36:46.560]or I have to make it a complete idea.
- [00:36:49.620]I'm like, here's an idea.
- [00:36:51.210]I send it out into the world.
- [00:36:52.710]If anybody reads it, good for you.
- [00:36:54.480]If you don't, I don't feel slighted
- [00:36:56.940]because I'm really doing that practice for me
- [00:37:00.420]to play with ideas.
- [00:37:02.190]So that's an easy start,
- [00:37:05.670]especially if you are in early in your career,
- [00:37:08.580]but it actually works for me now too.
- [00:37:10.470]But if you're early in your career
- [00:37:11.850]and you are not sure about the ideas and crafting
- [00:37:14.520]and all of that, you can,
- [00:37:16.320]I mean, the reason I do it in a blog
- [00:37:18.330]is because it's a sort of a commitment that is different
- [00:37:21.330]than just writing in a random document.
- [00:37:26.190]So I feel like we've covered-
- [00:37:28.290]Lots of things. Yes.
- [00:37:29.793]Like the different types of academic publishing.
- [00:37:32.400]We haven't talked about books.
- [00:37:33.990]Maybe we'll come back to that in another podcast.
- [00:37:36.570]But this idea of showing up every day,
- [00:37:40.650]doing really specific actionable writing work,
- [00:37:44.010]thinking about what data you're collecting
- [00:37:45.960]to lead to future manuscripts.
- [00:37:47.520]Like there's a lot of different balls to juggle here
- [00:37:50.070]while also thinking about multiple manuscripts at once.
- [00:37:58.530]And these are,
- [00:37:59.363]I mean these are all just tips and systems
- [00:38:03.985]that make that magical work of like,
- [00:38:06.450]oh, this grant showed up.
- [00:38:09.030]Poof. They just- Yeah.
- [00:38:10.771]They showed it.
- [00:38:11.604]Like, but what's invisible again,
- [00:38:13.350]what we're trying to do with this entire podcast series
- [00:38:15.300]is like make that invisible work visible.
- [00:38:19.140]And part of that is showing up every day
- [00:38:23.880]in front of your computer
- [00:38:25.530]and wrestling with the beast that is language.
- [00:38:29.910]Yeah.
- [00:38:30.743]And accountabuddies.
- [00:38:33.540]Close. Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:38:35.084]Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:38:36.576]Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:38:37.920]Accountabil-a-buddies.
- [00:38:39.000]That sounds like a hillbilly word.
- [00:38:41.820]Why you gotta go there, Guy?
- [00:38:43.994]I don't know.
- [00:38:44.940]It rhymed. Anyway...(laughing)
- [00:38:47.250]Accountabil-a-buddy and hillbilly?
- [00:38:51.300]It had billy in it.
- [00:38:53.746]When are you teaching your students about onset
- [00:38:56.160]and rhyme in your class?
- [00:38:57.780]This is what I need to know now.
- [00:38:59.370]I have concerns.
- [00:39:02.310]We don't talk about hillbillies if that's what you're,
- [00:39:05.880]if that's where you were going with this.
- [00:39:07.530]I'm more worried about the rhyme, the RH rhyme.
- [00:39:10.686]The rhyme, okay.
- [00:39:11.826]Okay.
- [00:39:12.659]Yeah. I've some concerns now.
- [00:39:13.492]Okay. Some concerns.
- [00:39:15.480]You will be welcome in my classroom.
- [00:39:17.250]Uh huh.
- [00:39:18.300]Except we teach at the same time,
- [00:39:19.650]and you know this
- [00:39:20.490]and so I'm not gonna be able to like do anything about it.
- [00:39:23.580]This is how he operates.
- [00:39:24.960]Yeah.
- [00:39:25.939]But hopefully, all of that aside-
- [00:39:28.440]Yes.
- [00:39:29.273]Right, you've gotten some insights
- [00:39:30.810]into how to construct a writing process
- [00:39:35.040]when you're an academic and that's part of your job.
- [00:39:39.180]Even though you're not that kind of doctor.
- [00:39:41.880]Even, I'm not that kind of doctor.
- [00:39:43.525]I'm a doctor that writes papers that seven people read.
- [00:39:49.080]And two people cite.
- [00:39:50.280]And two people cite.
- [00:39:53.100]Super exciting. All right.
- [00:39:54.780]My grandmother would be so proud.
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