Not That Kind of Doctor - Job Hunting, Part 2
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10/17/2022
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In this episode of "Not That Kind of Doctor," Guy and Nick tackle the intricacies of navigating the academic job market. They dive into the essential steps of preparing and organizing application materials, the importance of crafting tailored cover letters, and the strategies for standing out in a competitive field.
đź“Ś Key Takeaways:
Customizing Applications: The balance between personalizing each application and maintaining consistency across your job packets, without reinventing the wheel every time.
Highlighting the Invisible: How to use your cover letter to bring attention to achievements and skills that might not be immediately evident on your CV.
Quality of Life Considerations: Evaluating potential job locations not just for professional opportunities but also for personal fulfillment and community fit.
Strategic Document Preparation: The importance of keeping your CV updated, drafting essential statements, and gathering writing samples in advance to streamline the application process.
Common Pitfalls: Avoiding assumptions about prospective colleagues and the dangers of sending disingenuous inquiries to search committees.
Whether you're a new PhD entering the job market or an experienced academic considering a change, this episode offers valuable advice on how to present yourself effectively and make informed decisions about where to apply.
#AcademicJobMarket #JobSearchTips #FacultyApplications #NotThatKindOfDoctor #CareerInAcademia
How do you approach the job application process? Share your strategies in the comments below! Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more insights on navigating academic careers!
Job Hunting, Part 2 - Not That Kind of Doctor with Nick Husbye and Guy Trainin
www.youtube.com/@tltenotthatkindofdoctor
Searchable Transcript
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- [00:00:00.035](upbeat music)
- [00:00:09.270]So, as you're pulling together your job postings
- [00:00:13.950]your thinking about which ones you ready to apply for
- [00:00:16.590]you've got kind of this internalized list
- [00:00:19.500]of this is what I want
- [00:00:21.360]this is what I want in this position.
- [00:00:25.410]Then we get to the actual
- [00:00:29.550]bringing together of materials, right?
- [00:00:33.090]And something that I don't know how you you feel about this,
- [00:00:37.800]but I was told repeatedly,
- [00:00:41.280]every packet needs to be built from scratch,
- [00:00:43.830]like it's a cake and it's their birthday.
- [00:00:46.980]And there's no way. No, there's no way.
- [00:00:49.230]There's no way-
- [00:00:50.460]To make, let's say you get to 10,
- [00:00:52.710]which is a great job market.
- [00:00:54.060]It's a delightful job market.
- [00:00:55.350]You cannot write 10 separate letters
- [00:00:58.170]partially because it's too much work.
- [00:00:59.550]So, going back to your time,
- [00:01:00.660]but partially because you are still you,
- [00:01:03.090]you care about the same things
- [00:01:05.310]and you don't want to and this is part of
- [00:01:10.260]what's implied there
- [00:01:11.190]is you have to be a different person in each job.
- [00:01:14.353]You can't be a different person
- [00:01:16.140]and you don't want to apply to jobs
- [00:01:18.570]that you are gonna be unhappy doing.
- [00:01:21.210]Don't do that to yourself.
- [00:01:22.890]Even if you need the money, there are most likely
- [00:01:26.160]enough opportunities to do things you like doing.
- [00:01:29.160]We don't get paid enough to hate what we're doing,
- [00:01:31.380]but say we're making so much money, that we do that.
- [00:01:35.640]Not making it rain.
- [00:01:36.930]I don't see, I don't see you doing this.
- [00:01:39.510]No, not yet.
- [00:01:40.343]I feel if anyone here were to do that, it would be you.
- [00:01:42.960]So, you're my litmus paper for how prosperous our jobs are.
- [00:01:48.000]Yes, and they're fine jobs.
- [00:01:50.010]I mean, I want to say that in most places,
- [00:01:53.790]not probably not everywhere, but in most places
- [00:01:56.310]if you are working for a university
- [00:01:58.440]and you get a regular salary,
- [00:02:01.620]you can be just fine, but you're not gonna make it rain.
- [00:02:07.290]No, no, it's not, you're not making Bezos' money.
- [00:02:10.470]No, or anything remotely or like half of Bezos' money
- [00:02:14.970]or an eighth of Bezos' money or a 16th of Bezos' money.
- [00:02:18.420]And going down and down and down, but-
- [00:02:20.490]Just fractions. You can have a good life,
- [00:02:22.800]but at that point you've gotta do something you love.
- [00:02:26.250]And one of the things that made and going back to choice,
- [00:02:29.850]I'm sorry, I'm taking us back,
- [00:02:31.140]because we'll move forward to talk about-
- [00:02:33.300]Oh, 'cause you know my process.
- [00:02:34.133]Push you forward. I'm gonna push you forward.
- [00:02:35.130]Yeah, you're gonna push me forward.
- [00:02:36.420]But one of the reasons that
- [00:02:38.730]we actually made the choice about Lincoln was affordability,
- [00:02:42.780]but also quality of life.
- [00:02:44.160]Quality of life, when you're living 20 minutes from campus
- [00:02:46.800]and you don't have to be two and a half hours in traffic
- [00:02:50.040]is a huge bonus.
- [00:02:52.350]And now we work remotely.
- [00:02:53.700]So, there are other ways to mitigate a long commute.
- [00:02:56.610]But knowing that I finish work and 15 minutes
- [00:03:01.500]especially in the afternoon,
- [00:03:02.910]15 minutes later I'm at home with my kids
- [00:03:05.820]and I can go to parent-teacher conferences
- [00:03:08.160]and all of that
- [00:03:08.993]and not spend these hours in the car, that's gold.
- [00:03:13.080]And that's quality of work life.
- [00:03:14.430]Yes. So, I'm gonna follow
- [00:03:15.510]your segue for a second.
- [00:03:16.399]All right.
- [00:03:17.857]Sometimes I let Guy lead me astray
- [00:03:20.220]and we just wander in the woods chatting
- [00:03:23.490]and then we are like, "It's a podcast!"
- [00:03:26.160]That's a great idea.
- [00:03:27.390]Okay, so 15 minutes drive.
- [00:03:30.450]Yep.
- [00:03:31.283]As a Jewish person in Nebraska.
- [00:03:36.330]I would imagine that your quality of religious life
- [00:03:40.920]is not the same as it would be if you were in say-
- [00:03:43.847]True. California.
- [00:03:45.210]So, talk to me a little bit about that.
- [00:03:46.890]True, so you have to think about
- [00:03:49.260]your people, your community.
- [00:03:50.910]In my case, it's being Jewish
- [00:03:52.800]but it can be being Chinese or whatever
- [00:03:57.270]whatever you want to be that you clearly relate to.
- [00:04:01.380]I'll be honest, when I had an interview here,
- [00:04:03.900]one of the stops during my interview
- [00:04:05.940]was the Jewish community.
- [00:04:07.830]So, that was their initiative to connect me
- [00:04:10.688]to the community. Was there a block?
- [00:04:11.880]How did this work?
- [00:04:12.713]Like, "This is the Jewish community, this is the gateway.
- [00:04:15.240]Here's where you decide-
- [00:04:16.073]No, we actually went to visit the synagogue.
- [00:04:18.780]There's a synagogue in town.
- [00:04:19.830]We got to visit, we were welcomed.
- [00:04:22.470]There were a few professors, Jewish professors here.
- [00:04:25.710]So they connected us and they asked, do you want to go?
- [00:04:28.860]They did not force me to obviously,
- [00:04:30.900]but when I came with Sarah,
- [00:04:32.100]we went and we were welcomed very warmly.
- [00:04:36.030]And so, that was actually part of the thing
- [00:04:38.520]that worked for us.
- [00:04:40.440]That's always a challenge.
- [00:04:42.600]But if that is important to you.
- [00:04:45.480]I know for example, with many Chinese family
- [00:04:48.570]having Chinese school during the weekend is important.
- [00:04:51.000]In our case, it was Hebrew school in the middle of the week
- [00:04:54.600]and the afternoons and on the weekends.
- [00:04:56.670]That was important to us.
- [00:04:57.990]It was available,
- [00:04:58.980]so that it was definitely part of it.
- [00:05:01.890]And I know that we have some faculty members
- [00:05:03.960]who are actually living in Omaha
- [00:05:05.463]that has a bigger Jewish community
- [00:05:07.497]and the commute to Lincoln,
- [00:05:10.290]because they wanted that big community.
- [00:05:11.970]So, you have to think about what it is.
- [00:05:14.340]Yeah, so there's the quality of work life
- [00:05:15.946]and then there's the quality of life, life.
- [00:05:18.000]Yes, community, yeah.
- [00:05:20.010]And what is your community?
- [00:05:21.270]What do you want to have?
- [00:05:22.620]And are you gonna get it there?
- [00:05:25.020]Because eventually you will need it.
- [00:05:26.940]Sometimes very early on.
- [00:05:28.530]Sometimes in the beginning you're so focused on work
- [00:05:30.840]that you don't pay attention.
- [00:05:31.800]You are sooner or later you're going to pay attention.
- [00:05:34.410]I mean, at the end of the day, a job is a job.
- [00:05:40.290]It's not a life, it's a job.
- [00:05:44.100]And so, having that, those other things
- [00:05:46.230]are really important, right?
- [00:05:49.260]Okay, so getting back to
- [00:05:51.990]you've thought through what kind of position you want.
- [00:05:54.450]You've started accumulating job postings.
- [00:05:58.950]There's a couple of things that documents specifically
- [00:06:02.670]that you can collect that are really, really helpful.
- [00:06:06.300]Your CV, keep your CV updated every last Friday
- [00:06:12.120]of the month.
- [00:06:12.953]Set a calendar reminder to update your CV
- [00:06:16.410]so that you're not going,
- [00:06:18.090]when was that conference life hack?
- [00:06:22.080]It's a Karen Wolman life hack.
- [00:06:23.490]She trained me to do that as a grad student.
- [00:06:25.740]That's great. And it's brilliant.
- [00:06:28.080]Draft a research statement,
- [00:06:29.334]draft a diversity, equity and inclusion statement,
- [00:06:33.690]collect some writing samples.
- [00:06:35.070]If you've not, if you're a grad student
- [00:06:37.380]your main contribution is your dissertation
- [00:06:40.950]at that point in time.
- [00:06:41.910]So, work on having a results chapter
- [00:06:46.380]or some piece of that available to send along
- [00:06:50.940]with your packet if requested.
- [00:06:53.880]And then start thinking through those letters.
- [00:06:57.510]I find the application letter to be the most important part
- [00:07:03.960]of that application.
- [00:07:05.130]And I don't, again, it could come out at this
- [00:07:10.500]at a different way, but I don't draft,
- [00:07:12.330]I wouldn't draft every letter from scratch
- [00:07:15.150]every single time.
- [00:07:16.560]But I'd have chunks, right, depending on-
- [00:07:19.680]What they're asking for.
- [00:07:20.790]What the position is asking for, right?
- [00:07:23.130]Looking at the position,
- [00:07:24.270]what are they putting as the first...
- [00:07:26.520]What do they want that required qualifications to be?
- [00:07:31.950]What do they want the minimum qualifications to be?
- [00:07:34.710]What's the order of importance that the posting's telling me
- [00:07:39.030]to pay attention to?
- [00:07:40.830]And then, I draft chunks around my research agenda
- [00:07:45.690]my research projects, my teaching, my service,
- [00:07:49.680]my service to the profession, et cetera, et cetera
- [00:07:51.870]that allow me to place those within a letter
- [00:07:57.270]write the connective tissue, and then send them out.
- [00:08:02.269]And I think the most important thing about the letter
- [00:08:07.230]is to highlight the things that are partially invisible
- [00:08:10.140]in your CV, because we are very good.
- [00:08:12.690]So, I've sat on enough hiring committee
- [00:08:14.610]you have probably sat on quite a few, the CV talks, right?
- [00:08:19.770]And what you see in the CV
- [00:08:21.060]is probably the most powerful evidence,
- [00:08:23.250]but sometimes the evidence is not fully clear
- [00:08:25.620]especially when you are a graduate student, right?
- [00:08:27.630]It's not fully clear everything you've done.
- [00:08:30.090]So, the letter is your opportunity to say
- [00:08:32.244]it's not fully clear in my CV,
- [00:08:34.050]because there's no way to articulate that specific thing.
- [00:08:37.620]But I have actually done these three things
- [00:08:40.170]in these opportunities and that's how I'm meeting.
- [00:08:43.620]And that's especially important with minimum qualifications,
- [00:08:47.670]because if you don't meet minimum,
- [00:08:49.590]you're not gonna get anything, right?
- [00:08:51.450]You have to make sure you meet minimum qualifications.
- [00:08:55.260]But even on the preferred, if it's there
- [00:08:57.510]and you have some evidence, make it visible
- [00:09:00.840]and your CV, depending on what it looks like,
- [00:09:04.170]depending on what it is may or may not show that.
- [00:09:07.410]So, the letter is kind of highlighting,
- [00:09:10.260]it's not a repetition of the CV,
- [00:09:12.330]it's an articulation of what is important
- [00:09:14.370]what do I want you to pay attention to?
- [00:09:15.760]And I think that's the most important point
- [00:09:17.370]about that letter of application
- [00:09:18.960]is it's not,
- [00:09:20.467]"Oh, I did this, I did this, I did this."
- [00:09:22.650]They can read that on your CV,
- [00:09:24.900]the letter of applications your opportunity to
- [00:09:28.920]storify your CV.
- [00:09:32.042]How do all these different pieces of your CV
- [00:09:34.680]connect together and tell the story of who you are
- [00:09:38.760]as an applicant and the skills that you bring
- [00:09:41.490]and the interests that you have
- [00:09:43.740]to that particular institution.
- [00:09:46.140]And I think the weaker letters I've seen
- [00:09:50.730]being on hiring committees
- [00:09:51.990]simply view the letter of application as,
- [00:09:55.447]"Hey, I'm applying for this job, here's what I've done."
- [00:09:58.110]And then they end it.
- [00:09:59.640]It's not a formality
- [00:10:00.660]it's an opportunity to draw connections
- [00:10:06.120]between all the different pieces of your CV
- [00:10:10.080]and all of the other things
- [00:10:11.160]that they're asking you to provide to set the stage.
- [00:10:15.450]Yeah, and sometimes there are things that are invisible.
- [00:10:17.850]And I think, about my research career
- [00:10:19.830]there are things I'm working on right now
- [00:10:22.530]that have not seen the light of day,
- [00:10:24.210]and are not really on my CV yet,
- [00:10:26.550]because I'm doing analysis on something
- [00:10:28.650]that is really exciting and brand new.
- [00:10:31.110]It's not on my CV, because I haven't published yet.
- [00:10:33.210]And I personally don't put papers in process on my CV.
- [00:10:37.140]Although earlier you might, earlier in your career.
- [00:10:41.430]Did you see that Judgy? Look, he just kicked me.
- [00:10:44.146](Guy laughs)
- [00:10:45.990]Yes.
- [00:10:47.220]Ouch! I wasn't-
- [00:10:48.750]No, it was direct eye contact.
- [00:10:49.907]I feel triggered.
- [00:10:52.740]So, but my point is that
- [00:10:55.710]there are things that are truly invisible.
- [00:10:57.540]So, you want to bring them visible and say,
- [00:10:59.310]and lately, this is what I've been working for about
- [00:11:02.910]and this is what I aiming at
- [00:11:04.590]and this is what I see part of my research going,
- [00:11:07.350]that's hard to see.
- [00:11:09.330]I think teaching is the same way,
- [00:11:11.550]because some people get the opportunities.
- [00:11:13.320]So, full-time graduate students often
- [00:11:15.120]and should get the opportunity to teach
- [00:11:17.250]and to teach, especially in our area
- [00:11:19.230]it's always have you taught methods classes?
- [00:11:22.470]Have you taught online?
- [00:11:24.270]There are a few things that I think everybody
- [00:11:25.920]should be able to do.
- [00:11:27.090]But if you're doing this as a part-time doctoral program
- [00:11:30.540]so you're still working as a teacher or administrator
- [00:11:32.880]or something else, you have less opportunities to do that.
- [00:11:36.330]And that's just too much.
- [00:11:37.800]So, you have to find what are the other opportunities
- [00:11:40.290]to point at I can do,
- [00:11:43.650]I've worked in professional development,
- [00:11:45.600]I've done a workshop,
- [00:11:48.330]you have to find the opportunity to make that visible.
- [00:11:51.960]And again, on the CV, it may be there,
- [00:11:55.380]but really subdued like page 7 of a CV.
- [00:11:58.650]CVs can get really long after a while
- [00:12:02.070]depending on your experience
- [00:12:03.300]and everything else that has happened in your life.
- [00:12:05.610]But you wanna make sure
- [00:12:07.407]that they're finding that evidence.
- [00:12:10.200]Well, and I think too, back to your comment earlier about
- [00:12:13.290]when you were on the job market that first time
- [00:12:16.680]thinking about how you were special education and literacy
- [00:12:21.420]and there was one other category there.
- [00:12:24.240]Educational psychology.
- [00:12:25.590]Educational psychology.
- [00:12:28.320]And the letter really is an opportunity for you
- [00:12:31.440]to think about how your branding yourself.
- [00:12:34.350]I was in a similar situation.
- [00:12:35.580]My first job was illiteracy education,
- [00:12:39.990]but with a special education bend.
- [00:12:42.330]And because of the background that I had at Indiana
- [00:12:45.900]as a grad student teaching within
- [00:12:48.060]their special education program
- [00:12:50.190]I was able to really highlight that in my letter
- [00:12:53.400]and talk about how yes
- [00:12:55.800]I was a literacy education generalist,
- [00:12:59.460]but I worked within this special education framework
- [00:13:02.280]in ways that I don't think would have been clear
- [00:13:05.580]if they had just looked at my CV.
- [00:13:07.920]So, that letter is an opportunity to really craft your story
- [00:13:12.960]for exactly what they're looking at.
- [00:13:15.630]And just as a point of advice
- [00:13:20.160]that we haven't talked about.
- [00:13:21.480]But if as a graduate student,
- [00:13:22.710]you'll get the chance to serve on a committee,
- [00:13:24.570]if there's a call for a graduate student
- [00:13:28.170]on a hiring committee, go, join,
- [00:13:31.950]because what you learn there is valuable,
- [00:13:33.900]you're part of the discussion,
- [00:13:35.490]you're hearing and seeing how people read the CV
- [00:13:39.360]and the letter
- [00:13:40.193]and what are they paying attention to and whatnot.
- [00:13:42.540]It doesn't mean it's the whole truth,
- [00:13:44.130]because every committee is a little bit different
- [00:13:46.170]or a lot different.
- [00:13:47.550]But it'll give you some insight.
- [00:13:49.680]And also, if your institution is hiring
- [00:13:52.830]and they're doing the presentations
- [00:13:55.560]and the teaching presentations, whatever you can go to
- [00:13:59.040]just to go to see how other people present themselves
- [00:14:02.160]and what is their reaction
- [00:14:03.390]in the conversation after, that is that is gold,
- [00:14:07.200]because I've seen, I went at my time at UCR,
- [00:14:11.790]I've gone to about 4 or 5 talks that taught me so much.
- [00:14:16.650]I've seen people being obnoxious,
- [00:14:18.960]people have catastrophic technology failure
- [00:14:23.910]without a backup and completely losing it.
- [00:14:27.330]Inside that moment, I've seen so many things
- [00:14:30.330]of what not to do that I loved it.
- [00:14:33.660]And you're like, "Here's what not to do.
- [00:14:36.390]That's why you need to be ready for this happening.
- [00:14:39.600]What's your backup strategy?"
- [00:14:41.070]And 20 years ago, PowerPoint
- [00:14:44.130]and projectors failed on a regular basis,
- [00:14:46.440]that was a 50-50 proposition.
- [00:14:49.770]Today, we're doing a little bit better
- [00:14:51.750]and people don't expect you to have a backup for that,
- [00:14:54.750]but you have to have a backup for your computer didn't work.
- [00:14:59.393]You've gotta think about, and you get some of that
- [00:15:02.640]by just watching other people make mistakes.
- [00:15:04.650]And people make mistakes all the time.
- [00:15:07.437]Except yours.
- [00:15:08.460]Yours was perfect.
- [00:15:10.290]Oh, no.
- [00:15:11.211](Guy laughs)
- [00:15:12.090]Oh, oh, talk about backup plans.
- [00:15:14.130]But that's for another
- [00:15:15.540]maybe that needs to be another backup plans.
- [00:15:18.180]Maybe that needs to be have a pod,
- [00:15:19.293]so you got an interview now, what do you do?
- [00:15:22.380]Well, yeah, we'll do one on interviews,
- [00:15:25.380]because I think that the advice around
- [00:15:27.270]having an extra pair of pants is really important.
- [00:15:30.090]Oh, I never worried about the pants.
- [00:15:31.770]Now, I'm gonna worry about the pants.
- [00:15:33.030]Yeah, I think you should.
- [00:15:35.130]But I'm not-
- [00:15:35.963]Everybody should.
- [00:15:36.796]I don't wanna be in the job market again.
- [00:15:39.810]Pants are still important.
- [00:15:41.370]I mean, truth.
- [00:15:43.620]All right, let's move on.
- [00:15:44.670]Okay, so can you think of any don'ts
- [00:15:51.540]during this initial job marketing process?
- [00:15:57.120]I think that few of the don'ts
- [00:16:00.900]which are very similar to other things
- [00:16:03.420]I think about when you're going to a new place
- [00:16:06.120]don't make assumptions about who you're gonna work with
- [00:16:08.430]unless you've worked with them before.
- [00:16:10.620]So don't identify somebody who's at that faculty
- [00:16:13.500]and say, "Oh, I'm gonna work with so-and-so
- [00:16:16.410]and we're gonna have a super-productive research career,"
- [00:16:19.800]because they may not want to work with you.
- [00:16:21.870]It may be presumptuous.
- [00:16:23.160]And also, when you're reading their CVs,
- [00:16:25.230]because they didn't listen to the advice
- [00:16:27.660]of a constantly update your CV and make sure
- [00:16:30.240]that your public face is-
- [00:16:31.560]Monthly, not constantly,
- [00:16:32.670]constantly will make you crazy.
- [00:16:33.960]No, no, monthly is constantly,
- [00:16:35.880]because for a while in my career,
- [00:16:37.560]I was updating it maybe once every other year
- [00:16:39.840]so it was getting really bad,
- [00:16:44.070]but no, not quite as bad.
- [00:16:46.350]But not that much better.
- [00:16:48.330]Maybe once a year.
- [00:16:49.163]So many questions.
- [00:16:50.790]For an annual review I would do that, but that's about it.
- [00:16:53.820]But you don't want to make assumptions
- [00:16:57.330]about people you're not already working with.
- [00:16:59.610]So, I could make assumptions
- [00:17:01.140]about working with Kathy Wilson,
- [00:17:02.940]because she was here and we were already
- [00:17:04.470]in the middle of writing three pieces together.
- [00:17:06.570]So, I knew that was somebody I could work with.
- [00:17:08.730]But with other people, you can speculate
- [00:17:10.470]you can suggest that there might be an opportunity,
- [00:17:13.080]but don't make decisions for other people,
- [00:17:15.360]because that's gonna probably be ill-received
- [00:17:19.470]and never the other thing is never assume
- [00:17:22.740]you've got it in the bag,
- [00:17:23.760]because you know somebody
- [00:17:25.230]or because you went to a better institution
- [00:17:28.020]than the institution you're applying to or whatever,
- [00:17:31.170]because I've seen that arrogance with some people,
- [00:17:35.190]that came in, it was the way they carried themselves.
- [00:17:40.500]I don't know how, if they felt about it,
- [00:17:41.970]because I don't know, on the receiving end,
- [00:17:43.950]but it's like, "I'm better than you,"
- [00:17:47.400]kind of an attitude that comes out even in the letter.
- [00:17:52.380]And so, that's one.
- [00:17:54.570]And the other thing is the opposite.
- [00:17:56.010]And that is, it's clear that you don't know who we are
- [00:17:58.680]and what the job ad asked for.
- [00:18:03.210]And so, you're just basically sending the CV
- [00:18:05.760]in a one paragraph letter that says
- [00:18:09.397]"I'm applying to this job,
- [00:18:10.620]because I would like to have it."
- [00:18:12.000]And I've seen those too.
- [00:18:13.620]And you're not really even trying
- [00:18:15.990]and you have to,
- [00:18:17.070]I mean, the way I think about jobs in general in academia
- [00:18:20.400]is it's a gamble.
- [00:18:22.110]It's a gamble for both sides.
- [00:18:23.670]So, what both sides are trying to do is hedge their bets
- [00:18:26.910]and try to find the best fit that will work for everybody
- [00:18:29.490]so everybody can be happy.
- [00:18:30.900]So, that if you are making an effort
- [00:18:33.510]that's to an institution that's hedging the bet.
- [00:18:36.270]And if you're not making the effort
- [00:18:37.830]then the institution is saying you don't really care.
- [00:18:40.740]If you're not even trying to get the job,
- [00:18:42.630]what will happen when you give you the job?
- [00:18:45.330]That is the thing that goes in our brain.
- [00:18:48.120]It's like, if you don't care now,
- [00:18:49.890]we'll give you a job in an office
- [00:18:51.330]and you're gonna care even less,
- [00:18:52.620]because now you're there.
- [00:18:55.200]And so, I think look like you're trying.
- [00:18:58.830]Look like you're trying, but don't over try.
- [00:19:01.770]Yeah.
- [00:19:03.510]One of my pet peeves is whenever I'm working
- [00:19:06.540]with people on the job market
- [00:19:09.030]is if you have a genuine question
- [00:19:12.060]for the chair of the search
- [00:19:14.160]ask it. Send it, yeah.
- [00:19:15.360]But if you're just asking questions
- [00:19:16.740]to be like I just wanna get my name in their email,
- [00:19:20.580]they know who you are
- [00:19:21.810]the materials are already there
- [00:19:23.490]And they're gonna look at them,
- [00:19:25.110]they're not gonna skip you.
- [00:19:27.000]Right, they're already there.
- [00:19:29.550]So, if you ask a question that isn't a genuine question
- [00:19:35.550]you have to be really skilled in order to pull that off.
- [00:19:37.740]And I find most aren't to ask a question
- [00:19:40.560]that's not a genuine question
- [00:19:42.990]and that becomes like,
- [00:19:44.460]oh, huh, interesting do they not read the job posting?
- [00:19:48.270]So, it actually has kind of an opposite effect.
- [00:19:52.350]Right, oh, this applicant hasn't actually
- [00:19:58.800]thought about or read this job posting.
- [00:20:01.440]But if it's a genuine question, that's a different matter.
- [00:20:05.070]But sending questions just for the sake of like,
- [00:20:07.080]oh, getting my name out there,
- [00:20:09.030]getting my name in these people's email inboxes.
- [00:20:12.630]I don't recommend that.
- [00:20:14.730]Just to get your name out, definitely not.
- [00:20:16.680]And also, things that end up in people's inboxes
- [00:20:20.340]will not be considered part of the package.
- [00:20:22.860]So, if you have something to include
- [00:20:24.120]include it in the formal application,
- [00:20:27.360]because external materials
- [00:20:28.890]are usually at least frowned upon,
- [00:20:30.690]if not outright, we're gonna ignore that.
- [00:20:34.440]And because you sent it this way,
- [00:20:37.380]unless they explicitly said
- [00:20:39.450]sometimes a posting said
- [00:20:40.980]please send this piece directly to the person
- [00:20:43.620]who's running the search, that does happen.
- [00:20:46.140]Listen to, that goes back to read carefully and-
- [00:20:51.240]What they want?
- [00:20:52.140]Where they want it sent?
- [00:20:53.467]What are all the details?
- [00:20:54.930]Set up a spreadsheet.
- [00:20:56.370]And if you're not sure, please, please, please go...
- [00:21:01.350]If you have a professor you're working with
- [00:21:03.270]definitely are a direct advisor,
- [00:21:05.460]but sometimes there's somebody else that's helpful
- [00:21:07.470]that will help you read carefully,
- [00:21:10.440]because this is the essence of close reading.
- [00:21:13.020]So, you gotta read the details.
- [00:21:14.700]I often gloss over ads and then when I read the detail
- [00:21:18.930]it feels like a very different ad.
- [00:21:21.210]The devil is in the detail,
- [00:21:22.380]God is in the detail, however you wanna do it.
- [00:21:24.420]The details are there for a purpose,
- [00:21:26.010]and you want to read that very carefully,
- [00:21:27.750]because it might be perfect for you and it might not be.
- [00:21:31.740]And it's not in the title
- [00:21:34.170]assistant professor of,
- [00:21:35.940]it's in those very specific requirements.
- [00:21:38.400]Well, and so one of the steps that,
- [00:21:39.780]I didn't always go straight to spreadsheet.
- [00:21:41.400]As I was collecting postings, I would print out the posting
- [00:21:45.090]and then annotate it.
- [00:21:46.393]Oh wow.
- [00:21:47.580]So, I could see, oh, this is what they want
- [00:21:51.930]and they want these to address these things
- [00:21:53.907]and this has to get sent here da, da, da, da, da.
- [00:21:56.340]And then that's the information that I would distill
- [00:21:58.440]into the spreadsheet, because you have those details,
- [00:22:01.200]those details are important.
- [00:22:02.820]And I think they've gotten more important over time.
- [00:22:05.850]I think people are a lot more specific now.
- [00:22:08.220]And having worked with somebody fairly recently
- [00:22:10.440]we actually both worked with the same person.
- [00:22:13.260]And I saw how she was reading the ads
- [00:22:17.430]and how we read it very, very differently.
- [00:22:20.460]You want that advice, you want to talk to somebody
- [00:22:23.280]who's been through it, if at all possible.
- [00:22:25.560]Like us.
- [00:22:26.393]Yeah, send us an email.
- [00:22:29.610]Or maybe not.
- [00:22:30.443]No, send questions.
- [00:22:32.220]Send questions.
- [00:22:33.090]We're happy to answer,
- [00:22:34.080]but yeah, that close reading is really critical.
- [00:22:36.630]And reading it with somebody else
- [00:22:38.430]even somebody else who's in the search process
- [00:22:40.680]helps you identify the nuggets you skipped over.
- [00:22:44.430]And I think that's one of the traps
- [00:22:45.810]of all the online materials
- [00:22:47.580]is it's harder to annotate
- [00:22:51.960]and it's easier to just jump things,
- [00:22:54.390]because that's how we read online, I would argue.
- [00:22:57.360]And so, printing out might be a really good strategy
- [00:23:01.380]or doing a close reading with somebody.
- [00:23:03.240]I actually read it to myself out loud as a strategy
- [00:23:06.510]to slow down. Very E.B. White of you,
- [00:23:08.610]very E.B. White.
- [00:23:10.320]Well, so, okay, in this episode we worked to
- [00:23:15.030]kind of demystify the beginning parts of the job market.
- [00:23:18.540]There's lots of other pieces to it.
- [00:23:22.350]Like what happens if you get some interest?
- [00:23:25.560]What goes on there?
- [00:23:26.700]But hopefully, what we hoped to do
- [00:23:30.630]was to provide some clarity around thinking about
- [00:23:34.560]what is it exactly that you want in your job
- [00:23:37.596]after graduate school?
- [00:23:39.750]Where do you find jobs?
- [00:23:40.920]What are some strategies for that?
- [00:23:42.000]And then how do you organize those materials?
- [00:23:45.180]How do you think about getting them sent in?
- [00:23:47.280]And so, hopefully this has been helpful.
- [00:23:49.980]And it's stuff that feels hard-earned after.
- [00:23:54.300]I've done multiple job searches.
- [00:23:56.130]I've done multiple job searches
- [00:23:58.080]although I've stayed in this job.
- [00:23:59.940]But I've done a few extra job searches throughout my history
- [00:24:04.530]and I've learned to do them better and better.
- [00:24:06.210]I think I've gotten better over time.
- [00:24:07.980]Also, serving on committees
- [00:24:09.450]help you kind of figure that out.
- [00:24:11.280]And I do wanna say, we'll do other episodes
- [00:24:14.460]about what happens before,
- [00:24:15.750]because you can build up to this
- [00:24:17.790]as I've kept saying, there are building blocks
- [00:24:20.880]you put out earlier that will help you
- [00:24:23.550]during the job search.
- [00:24:24.780]And then obviously, and you've alluded to this
- [00:24:28.080]we're gonna also talk about what happens
- [00:24:30.000]if you get a phone interview?
- [00:24:31.170]What is that all about and what can you do about it?
- [00:24:33.221]Or a Zoom interview. A Zoom interview.
- [00:24:35.731]And how to prepare for the two-day or day and a half
- [00:24:40.620]or whatever your interview time is
- [00:24:42.480]if you actually get to go on a campus visit.
- [00:24:45.120]And so, we'll do those as well,
- [00:24:47.490]because that is part of making it happen.
- [00:24:51.870]This process, getting all organized
- [00:24:54.000]and getting everything sent
- [00:24:55.170]is so you will get enough interest
- [00:24:57.390]so that you will get called on the phone or to the campus.
- [00:25:01.620]But then you have a big task of nailing that,
- [00:25:05.040]because your file can look great.
- [00:25:06.540]But if you do not do well on that visit
- [00:25:09.180]or even on a phone interview
- [00:25:10.890]that's usually the end of that.
- [00:25:15.600]No pressure.
- [00:25:16.433]There were a comment with that institution.
- [00:25:17.730]No pressure. Lots of pressure.
- [00:25:19.675]It's so much pressure.
- [00:25:21.360]But hopefully, hopefully this has helped relieve
- [00:25:24.000]some of that pressure.
- [00:25:25.050]If you set up some systems that work for you
- [00:25:27.600]that actually align with who you want to be as an academic,
- [00:25:32.648]it will make it a little bit easier maybe.
- [00:25:35.280]But even if after all of that
- [00:25:39.630]you're experiencing some heart palpitations,
- [00:25:42.150]maybe some shortness of breath, don't talk to us.
- [00:25:46.830]Call your GP, your general practitioner
- [00:25:49.650]'cause we're not that kind doctor.
- [00:25:51.352](upbeat music)
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