2021 WGS Annual Lecture

Women's and Gender Studies Program Author

10/08/2021 Added

36 Plays

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“Gender and International Migration: From Slavery to Present” Professor Katharine Donato

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[00:00:05.138]Nice to see everybody.
[00:00:06.506]Nice to be maskless
[00:00:07.741]and doing this, and this is
[00:00:09.275]this is really lovely.
[00:00:10.110]It's been a long time
[00:00:10.877]since we've held an event
[00:00:11.878]like this in person.
[00:00:12.912]So this is, you know,
[00:00:14.447]getting used to things again
[00:00:15.782]in about two years.
[00:00:16.950]So anyway, welcome to Women's
[00:00:20.086]and Gender Studies 2021
[00:00:21.821]Annual Lecture, cohosted
[00:00:23.456]with the School of Integrative
[00:00:24.724]Studies, in particular with the
[00:00:26.559]with the amazing
[00:00:27.394]Professor Emira Ibrahimpasic.
[00:00:30.864]And also for those of you
[00:00:31.831]who don't know me,
[00:00:32.932]my name is Rose Holz,
[00:00:34.167]I'm the Associate Director of the Women's
[00:00:35.502]and Gender Studies Program.
[00:00:36.736]And it's a delight to see
[00:00:37.904]so many faces here,
[00:00:39.873]some from the WGS community
[00:00:41.775]and a lot of new ones.
[00:00:42.842]And so I want to
[00:00:43.843]welcome each of you personally,
[00:00:45.445]especially the ones that I don't know.
[00:00:47.947]And I also want to say, especially to
[00:00:50.216]to thank you for coming to what
[00:00:51.918]we call the WGS annual lecture
[00:00:53.920]to to kind of key you into this.
[00:00:55.355]This is a new tradition that we began
[00:00:58.491]a couple of years ago
[00:00:59.325]back in 2019 as the signature event
[00:01:02.562]for the Women's and Gender
[00:01:03.430]Studies Program.
[00:01:05.165]And we'll be hosting it
[00:01:06.166]each year, usually in the fall.
[00:01:08.334]And the goal is to bring in speakers
[00:01:09.702]who can use their
[00:01:11.404]bring their expertize
[00:01:12.939]to campus to shed light on issues
[00:01:14.607]related to women and gender and sexuality
[00:01:16.543]that are going on around us.
[00:01:18.645]And there are a lot of issues
[00:01:20.280]going on around us
[00:01:21.614]in terms of women gender and sexuality.
[00:01:24.951]And so I'm delighted
[00:01:26.286]to have Professor
[00:01:27.454]Katharine Donato, our third
[00:01:30.090]in this new speaker series.
[00:01:32.459]Before I introduce Professor
[00:01:34.127]Donato, I need to say a couple of things.
[00:01:36.563]First, I want to put on your radar
[00:01:38.198]another Women's and Gender Studies event
[00:01:40.600]that we'll be hosting this academic year.
[00:01:42.635]That's No Limits 2022.
[00:01:45.472]That's our student research conference.
[00:01:47.674]And so this is open.
[00:01:48.908]We bring in a keynote speaker
[00:01:50.543]that's going to be Professor
[00:01:51.644]SJ Sindu, who's an alum of our program.
[00:01:54.314]Delighted to be able to bring her in
[00:01:56.216]the theme will be
[00:01:57.517]'writing as resistance.'
[00:01:59.385]But again, this is a student
[00:02:00.620]research conference.
[00:02:01.521]And so this is open to undergraduate
[00:02:03.123]and graduate students,
[00:02:03.990]we'll put out the call for papers
[00:02:05.425]sometime the end of October.
[00:02:07.360]So this is my encouragement
[00:02:08.862]to all of you to be thinking about.
[00:02:10.263]There's a project that you're working on
[00:02:11.865]to consider submitting a proposal.
[00:02:13.967]And then the conference itself
[00:02:15.535]actually takes place on March 11th.
[00:02:18.805]And that's going to be here
[00:02:19.539]in the Nebraska Union.
[00:02:20.507]So it's here on campus. It's free.
[00:02:22.809]So why not?
[00:02:24.244]It's a great opportunity.
[00:02:25.945]The other thing I want to do is
[00:02:27.347]I want to say a couple of words
[00:02:28.648]of thanks to my colleague,
[00:02:30.150]Professor Emira Ibrahimpasic.
[00:02:32.252]For those of you
[00:02:33.286]who don't know her,
[00:02:34.087]which I think most of you probably do.
[00:02:36.322]She's an assistant professor of practice
[00:02:38.892]and the assistant
[00:02:39.559]director of Global Studies.
[00:02:41.294]And of course, my old officemate
[00:02:42.762]where we lived together
[00:02:44.164]in an interdisciplinary space
[00:02:45.265]on the third floor of Seaton Hall.
[00:02:47.233]So it's really lovely
[00:02:48.034]to be working with you again.
[00:02:49.169]She's the
[00:02:49.636]she's the yin to my yang,
[00:02:51.104]she is the extrovert to my introvert.
[00:02:53.239]The you know, this the person
[00:02:56.209]who's you a tech savvy to my,
[00:02:58.111]you know, old school Luddism.
[00:02:59.846]And so it's lovely
[00:03:00.914]to be working with you again.
[00:03:02.815]And a couple of other
[00:03:04.617]thanks that I want to say
[00:03:06.286]here are to our co-sponsors,
[00:03:07.820]UNL's Research Council
[00:03:09.856]and Convocations Committee,
[00:03:11.558]the Forsyth Family Program on Human
[00:03:13.426]Rights and Humanitarian Affairs.
[00:03:15.461]The excuse me, the Institute
[00:03:17.163]for Ethnic Studies.
[00:03:18.665]The Departments of Classics
[00:03:19.933]and Religious Studies,
[00:03:20.800]English, History
[00:03:21.768]and Modern Languages
[00:03:22.602]and Literature, Philosophy,
[00:03:23.870]Psychology and Sociology.
[00:03:25.905]And last but not least, the Center
[00:03:27.307]for Great Plains Studies.
[00:03:29.309]And now to a few words
[00:03:30.310]about our speaker,
[00:03:31.077]Professor Katharine Donato.
[00:03:33.813]Professor Donato earned her Ph.D.
[00:03:35.515]in sociology from the State
[00:03:36.916]University of New York at Stony Brook.
[00:03:39.519]She also has a masters in social work
[00:03:41.387]from the University of Wisconsin,
[00:03:42.789]Milwaukee and a B.S. in economics.
[00:03:44.958]So clearly an interdisciplinary thinker
[00:03:47.961]and an interdisciplinary administrator,
[00:03:49.896]which I really enjoy
[00:03:51.431]talking with her about.
[00:03:53.399]She is the Donald J.
[00:03:55.068]Harrisburg professor
[00:03:55.935]of International Migration
[00:03:57.270]at Georgetown University
[00:03:58.638]and also its director.
[00:04:00.773]She's the adjunct professor
[00:04:02.175]of law at Georgetown.
[00:04:03.376]And I also just learned
[00:04:04.377]the interim director
[00:04:05.245]of the sociology department at Georgetown
[00:04:09.282]prior to joining the Georgetown faculty.
[00:04:12.118]She was on the faculty of Vanderbilt
[00:04:13.753]and Rice Universities.
[00:04:15.355]And among other things,
[00:04:16.456]she has examined
[00:04:17.223]many research questions
[00:04:18.324]related to migration,
[00:04:19.592]including the economic
[00:04:20.593]consequences of U.S.
[00:04:21.828]immigration policy,
[00:04:23.329]health effects in Mexico, U.S.
[00:04:25.098]migration, immigrant parent
[00:04:26.899]involvement in schools
[00:04:28.034]in New York, Chicago
[00:04:29.102]and Nashville, deportation
[00:04:31.037]and its effects for immigrants.
[00:04:32.538]The Great Recession
[00:04:33.439]and its consequences
[00:04:34.407]for Mexican workers,
[00:04:35.408]and gender migration.
[00:04:37.477]Her recent book about which
[00:04:38.711]she'll be talking here,
[00:04:40.046]which she co-wrote with Donna Gabaccia
[00:04:41.648]of the University of Toronto, Is Gender
[00:04:44.651]an International Migration
[00:04:45.351]From Slavery to Present.
[00:04:47.153]And just last but not least,
[00:04:48.554]I just want to say
[00:04:49.289]a couple of the courses that she teaches,
[00:04:51.090]because teaching is
[00:04:52.525]near and dear to both of our hearts.
[00:04:54.827]Some of the courses are
[00:04:55.595]Refugees and Migrant Children,
[00:04:57.463]Global Mobility,
[00:04:58.931]Global Check, Child Migration,
[00:05:00.933]Immigrants, Refugees in the States
[00:05:02.935]and International Migration
[00:05:04.504]and Development,
[00:05:05.271]so I'm sure we're going to have
[00:05:06.806]a lot to talk about with her
[00:05:08.975]and basically we have the set up
[00:05:10.643]that she'll speak for about 40,
[00:05:11.978]45 minutes,
[00:05:12.979]then we will open it up for some Q&A
[00:05:15.715]with the audience.
[00:05:16.482]So with no further
[00:05:17.817]ado, please join me in welcoming
[00:05:19.285]Professor Katharine Donato.
[00:05:28.227]Thank you so much
[00:05:29.195]for the kind introduction,
[00:05:31.030]and I'm thrilled to be here.
[00:05:32.799]Never been to this part of Nebraska, so
[00:05:38.071]I've been to Omaha.
[00:05:40.139]So this has been really lovely.
[00:05:41.407]The campus is beautiful.
[00:05:44.844]OK.
[00:05:47.547]OK, so Donna Gabaccia,
[00:05:49.449]she is a historian,
[00:05:51.250]and I am a sociologist,
[00:05:53.152]so we started working together
[00:05:54.821]quite some time ago,
[00:05:57.223]and we were really I think we came
[00:06:01.527]when we first met each other,
[00:06:02.862]which was by phone
[00:06:03.596]in the old days wire phone
[00:06:06.866]in my postdoc office
[00:06:08.568]at the University of Chicago rang
[00:06:10.103]and it was her and
[00:06:11.938]I had never met her before.
[00:06:13.940]And we started talking about
[00:06:16.642]the feminization
[00:06:17.577]of migration, just generally.
[00:06:19.579]And we both brought up this 1985 article.
[00:06:24.984]This was in the early 90s
[00:06:26.486]when Donna called me.
[00:06:29.088]And this came up in our very
[00:06:30.423]first conversation.
[00:06:31.758]And so that is this is actually in
[00:06:34.894]the very first few pages of our book
[00:06:38.264]where The New York Times explained
[00:06:41.200]that women now represented
[00:06:44.670]half or more of US
[00:06:46.839]immigrants in the United States.
[00:06:48.708]And they summarize findings
[00:06:50.877]from an academic journal,
[00:06:52.512]the International Migration Review.
[00:06:55.681]The IMR had just done its first
[00:06:58.818]volume on women in migration,
[00:07:02.922]not gender.
[00:07:03.756]So just to note,
[00:07:05.024]and there were a variety of articles
[00:07:07.760]done, very good work.
[00:07:09.595]And The New York Times
[00:07:11.130]is reporting on that work.
[00:07:12.565]And this is the front page
[00:07:14.100]of The New York Times.
[00:07:16.269]So I remember asking Donna at that point
[00:07:19.572]I'm pretty much a novice
[00:07:21.774]in the research space,
[00:07:23.943]just having graduated with my Ph.D.
[00:07:27.313]And I just said, you know, by the way,
[00:07:29.115]did you see that article?
[00:07:31.150]You know, do you think that
[00:07:32.351]that's really news?
[00:07:34.954]And that's kind of how we began our
[00:07:39.091]toxo our, with our long
[00:07:41.561]term relationship.
[00:07:42.695]She's now retired,
[00:07:44.363]but still some writing.
[00:07:47.133]So today what we'll do
[00:07:49.302]is I'm going to summarize
[00:07:51.137]prior scholarship very briefly.
[00:07:53.806]I'm going to discuss
[00:07:55.074]some findings from historical
[00:07:57.810]and more contemporary analyses
[00:08:00.913]that we did in the book
[00:08:02.281]and essentially three takeaways.
[00:08:04.450]One, that understanding
[00:08:06.519]men and women in human migration requires
[00:08:09.555]a substantial rethinking
[00:08:11.924]of away from the simple notions
[00:08:15.394]that we might have related
[00:08:17.497]to the feminization of migration. Two,
[00:08:20.333]that women and men
[00:08:21.501]who migrate live in
[00:08:22.802]gendered social worlds,
[00:08:25.872]embedded in the lives of
[00:08:27.440]families and communities.
[00:08:29.942]And then three women and men have always
[00:08:33.212]therefore been actors in migration,
[00:08:37.783]such that in some places
[00:08:39.785]and in some uncertain times,
[00:08:41.888]women are more likely than men.
[00:08:44.290]And then reverse,
[00:08:45.324]you know, men can be more likely
[00:08:47.393]than women to migrate.
[00:08:51.330]So the scholarship after the 1960s
[00:08:54.634]in the academy, right,
[00:08:56.269]in universities worldwide, really, but
[00:08:59.505]especially in the US in the 1960s,
[00:09:02.208]is a period of the civil rights movement.
[00:09:04.377]After that, then
[00:09:05.378]the feminist movement
[00:09:06.879]emerges and scholarship on women
[00:09:10.082]initially emerges.
[00:09:12.084]And you can see there's
[00:09:12.952]all sorts of citations
[00:09:14.320]to various work that
[00:09:15.721]that is in the social sciences.
[00:09:18.391]Probably most of this work
[00:09:19.959]has the most citations
[00:09:22.161]associated with it.
[00:09:24.797]But then by by the 1990s,
[00:09:28.434]the emphasis shifts away
[00:09:30.002]from women to gender.
[00:09:32.071]And that's still in the space
[00:09:34.373]where we are today.
[00:09:35.875]Meaning that, you know,
[00:09:37.376]if we understand only women
[00:09:39.178]or if we understand
[00:09:40.112]only men, we're not really not
[00:09:42.014]capturing the gendered story
[00:09:44.550]because gender is relative
[00:09:46.819]to one group to another.
[00:09:48.621]And now, of course,
[00:09:49.488]we have more groups,
[00:09:50.923]let's say, that that identify in
[00:09:53.859]under the umbrella of gender.
[00:09:55.728]So I think we'll still see
[00:09:57.063]gender as the umbrella,
[00:09:59.231]but more diversity.
[00:10:00.933]A hundred or
[00:10:03.636]so Donna and I remember
[00:10:06.272]when that was in the early 90s
[00:10:08.207]when we first had a conversation,
[00:10:09.909]we really didn't
[00:10:10.610]start to work together until 2002.
[00:10:13.679]We were part of this
[00:10:14.614]working group on gender
[00:10:16.048]migration, organized
[00:10:17.283]by the Social Science Research Council,
[00:10:20.553]and she was the lead on it.
[00:10:22.154]I was, you know, a member.
[00:10:24.824]We eventually published
[00:10:27.059]the second International Migration Review
[00:10:30.763]issue on this time, not women
[00:10:33.332]in migration, but gender and migration,
[00:10:36.369]where we wrote the intro
[00:10:37.670]and then had a variety of other pieces
[00:10:41.474]addressing various kinds of sub issues.
[00:10:44.276]And really,
[00:10:45.611]I think that you'll see,
[00:10:47.079]no matter what piece,
[00:10:48.948]that you might come across
[00:10:50.349]on gender and migration.
[00:10:51.684]Now you'll see that
[00:10:52.652]feminization is here to stay.
[00:10:54.954]That is a part.
[00:10:56.422]Some people argue
[00:10:57.423]it's a part of the new age of migration.
[00:11:00.393]I don't make that argument, but some do.
[00:11:03.095]But it's here to stay.
[00:11:04.330]It's developed it's developed in part
[00:11:08.100]in tandem with globalization processes,
[00:11:11.971]but it's not well defined
[00:11:13.706]and not well understood.
[00:11:15.775]Wikipedia, for example, defines it
[00:11:19.145]feminization as a trend
[00:11:20.646]or a higher rate of women migrate to work
[00:11:23.549]or to marry than men.
[00:11:25.584]But again, specifying
[00:11:27.586]that feminization of migration
[00:11:29.488]to be related to only work
[00:11:30.990]or only marriage or both is problematic.
[00:11:34.493]So, you know, that
[00:11:36.095]led us to you know,
[00:11:37.263]is that the best definition
[00:11:38.831]and really led us to thinking about
[00:11:42.268]what could we add
[00:11:44.170]to this literature,
[00:11:45.905]to the scholarship
[00:11:47.006]that would make make a difference.
[00:11:49.041]So also so we started work in 2002.
[00:11:52.712]We were annoyed by the 1985
[00:11:56.582]New York Times coverage of the
[00:11:59.118]of the high demand volume
[00:12:00.619]of women in migration.
[00:12:02.188]And then as we're working together,
[00:12:04.256]the UN report publishes this
[00:12:08.327]this report, Passage to Hope 2006.
[00:12:11.464]And this makes the front page
[00:12:13.265]of The New York Times.
[00:12:15.067]And again, a very similar messaging that,
[00:12:19.271]you know,
[00:12:19.939]wow, there are all
[00:12:20.973]these women in migration
[00:12:22.975]flows around the world.
[00:12:24.777]And if you
[00:12:26.045]if you just go to the very first
[00:12:28.314]set of bars, right, the bars
[00:12:30.149]I know there's a lot in here,
[00:12:31.917]which is, you know, the bars
[00:12:33.052]start from the left,
[00:12:34.153]going to the right,
[00:12:35.488]and it's time 1960, 70, 80.
[00:12:38.924]And so and we do that for the world
[00:12:40.893]and then various kinds
[00:12:42.061]of large continents around the world.
[00:12:44.830]But if you just stay
[00:12:46.432]with the first set of bars
[00:12:48.000]for the world, you can see.
[00:12:49.802]And even in 1960,
[00:12:51.303]we were looking at forty
[00:12:52.805]seven or forty eight
[00:12:53.973]percent of all international
[00:12:56.242]migrants, persons
[00:12:57.610]living in a country
[00:12:58.644]that is not their country
[00:13:00.146]of birth being women.
[00:13:02.481]So it's you know, and
[00:13:04.216]you can see that going across the board,
[00:13:06.452]that it's typically
[00:13:07.620]at that level or higher.
[00:13:10.256]And for many regions of the world
[00:13:12.391]and for the world, generally speaking,
[00:13:14.727]you see an increase
[00:13:16.228]again, not that much of an increase,
[00:13:18.264]but an increase
[00:13:19.765]approaching to what
[00:13:20.332]we call gender balance,
[00:13:24.270]where about 50 percent of migrants
[00:13:26.205]are women and 50 percent are men.
[00:13:29.441]By the way, I put there on the side
[00:13:31.443]what the three kind of broad
[00:13:35.648]chapters are in this report,
[00:13:38.150]because, note, the chapter
[00:13:39.885]one is about the volume
[00:13:41.253]of women's migration.
[00:13:43.823]Note that women's migration, so this is
[00:13:46.258]2006 is the big data
[00:13:48.327]by using by not really
[00:13:51.330]gendering the the entire report.
[00:13:53.866]And then second, the impact
[00:13:55.367]of their remittances.
[00:13:57.102]Again, women's remittances.
[00:13:59.371]And then the last piece
[00:14:01.040]section of the report is about their
[00:14:03.909]disproportionate vulnerability
[00:14:06.712]with respect to trafficking
[00:14:08.314]and other forms of exploitation.
[00:14:10.983]And all of this certainly is interesting,
[00:14:14.420]but it's just a piece of the story
[00:14:18.190]for women migrants
[00:14:20.292]as it is a piece of the story for men.
[00:14:25.431]So our reaction is kind of similar.
[00:14:28.300]You know, what's newsworthy here
[00:14:30.636]from all those bars from that big U.N.
[00:14:33.239]report
[00:14:33.706]that makes the front page of the papers?
[00:14:37.576]You know what I mean?
[00:14:39.011]For us, we started asking,
[00:14:40.412]well, what happened before 1960?
[00:14:42.514]Because if we're all ready in 1960,
[00:14:44.984]and about 47 percent worldwide
[00:14:49.288]of migrants being women,
[00:14:50.689]then what happened before that? Right.
[00:14:52.925]To perhaps tip it up, tip off the comp-
[00:14:56.395]the gender composition
[00:14:58.664]to about gender balance.
[00:15:00.332]What what about small shifts?
[00:15:03.002]Do they matter?
[00:15:04.470]So if you if you move a world or a region
[00:15:08.340]or a country moves from forty
[00:15:10.276]seven to forty nine percent
[00:15:12.311]female among its its,
[00:15:14.480]uh migrants, does that matter?
[00:15:16.815]Does it matter if there's
[00:15:17.983]a ship that small, you know, at a lower,
[00:15:23.389]smaller amount of
[00:15:26.225]women in the flow or or higher?
[00:15:29.795]And then what are the
[00:15:30.462]consequences it causes?
[00:15:34.867]So we wrote this book,
[00:15:37.002]and
[00:15:38.804]this is a copy of our book,
[00:15:40.172]and I have to say that
[00:15:41.373]this quote from Hania Zlotnik,
[00:15:43.876]who at the time she's now retired,
[00:15:46.211]mentioned she might have passed away now,
[00:15:49.782]but she was a big voice
[00:15:52.918]in generating statistics
[00:15:55.421]on international migration by sex,
[00:15:58.490]broken down by sex.
[00:15:59.992]She worked for the United Nations
[00:16:01.493]for a long time.
[00:16:03.028]And she you know,
[00:16:04.229]she says statistics are
[00:16:06.231]not what they used to be.
[00:16:08.033]The challenge is
[00:16:08.834]to understand their language
[00:16:11.837]so as to decipher the story
[00:16:14.707]that they're trying to tell.
[00:16:17.309]And for the U.N.
[00:16:18.410]still, if you go on to the U.N.
[00:16:20.379]website and you look for data on
[00:16:23.248]international migrants
[00:16:25.584]by country,
[00:16:26.885]there still are a number of countries
[00:16:28.520]that don't report
[00:16:29.488]just basic numbers in the percent female.
[00:16:33.892]So this is something that Zlotnik
[00:16:36.362]trying to change from within the U.N.
[00:16:39.665]and still that she made a big difference.
[00:16:41.867]But still, there's a lot more to do.
[00:16:46.005]So we published this
[00:16:47.006]book with support
[00:16:47.773]from the Russell Sage Foundation.
[00:16:50.976]So these three broad questions,
[00:16:52.745]and I'm going to walk us
[00:16:53.912]through very quickly
[00:16:55.414]some of the answers to these questions,
[00:16:57.216]but at least you understand
[00:16:58.484]sort of what the framing is for the book.
[00:17:01.086]The first is historical
[00:17:02.821]and largely descriptive.
[00:17:04.390]What are the dynamics
[00:17:05.624]of gender composition
[00:17:08.127]and among international migrants?
[00:17:11.730]We go back in time, right.
[00:17:13.832]Slavery era to the present
[00:17:15.667]so that we could figure out
[00:17:17.703]if the data from the 2006 U.N.
[00:17:20.406]report looked like,
[00:17:23.409]you know, the gender composition
[00:17:24.843]there looked like
[00:17:26.111]gender composition of those before that.
[00:17:29.481]And then what explains
[00:17:30.816]feminization or masculinization?
[00:17:34.119]So that's one kind of set of questions.
[00:17:36.488]Second is knowledge
[00:17:38.223]production across disciplines.
[00:17:39.958]We have a chapter or two in the middle
[00:17:42.094]of the book where we're
[00:17:44.129]trying to ask the question,
[00:17:45.864]why didn't we know about women's presence
[00:17:50.903]and more women relative to men
[00:17:54.640]presence among the international
[00:17:56.942]migration flows earlier in time.
[00:17:59.978]And then lastly,
[00:18:01.280]we have a bit on the consequences, right?
[00:18:03.949]Why should we care?
[00:18:05.250]Are there effects of having
[00:18:07.920]largely male or largely female?
[00:18:11.523]flows.
[00:18:13.725]So the definitions on the top,
[00:18:15.527]kind of the definitions
[00:18:17.296]for the feminization of migration
[00:18:20.866]that we generated
[00:18:22.868]and that we recommend in the book.
[00:18:25.904]The past definitions,
[00:18:27.639]you can see if you read
[00:18:29.541]a few of them are largely vague.
[00:18:32.811]You know, they are any kind of rise
[00:18:36.415]in the percent female
[00:18:38.150]among migrants is feminization.
[00:18:41.320]Any sort of rise or any kind of decline,
[00:18:44.823]is that masculinization
[00:18:47.025]without really thinking
[00:18:47.960]about where you start
[00:18:50.062]and where you end?
[00:18:52.064]And you can see we have tried to add
[00:18:54.333]a bit more precision.
[00:18:55.667]Right?
[00:18:56.001]So less than 43 percent
[00:18:57.870]female is male predominant
[00:19:01.039]female predominant
[00:19:02.474]is more than 53 percent female.
[00:19:05.210]And then we also thought
[00:19:06.411]it is very important
[00:19:07.613]to think about gender balanced flows.
[00:19:14.052]And then heavily female now.
[00:19:17.456]So we started with the assumption
[00:19:20.792]that so much scholarship published in,
[00:19:25.197]you know, the most prestigious places
[00:19:29.301]assumes, which is that,
[00:19:31.170]you know, at least two men and
[00:19:32.905]two men for every woman
[00:19:34.273]in any migration flow.
[00:19:37.376]So we decided we needed to use
[00:19:39.545]data that go back in time.
[00:19:42.014]And so for the first part of the book,
[00:19:44.082]we focused on forced
[00:19:45.250]migration of Africans
[00:19:48.453]from from various parts in Africa
[00:19:51.890]that are actually part
[00:19:53.525]of this transatlantic
[00:19:55.260]slave trade database.
[00:19:57.396]The data are free.
[00:19:58.630]They're public access,
[00:20:00.499]I highly recommend, if you're interested.
[00:20:02.401]Feel free to go to their website.
[00:20:04.403]And it's got its got flow data.
[00:20:07.406]It actually has accounts
[00:20:09.374]of migrants as they entered
[00:20:13.045]and then left their ship,
[00:20:15.847]right as they disembarked
[00:20:18.550]or as they embarked on the journey.
[00:20:22.988]Now, these are all forced migrants.
[00:20:26.358]They're all slaves,
[00:20:28.460]you know, providing
[00:20:29.328]slave labor in the US.
[00:20:31.129]Not all these data are available
[00:20:33.365]and broken down by sex,
[00:20:35.167]but you can see about 15
[00:20:36.668]percent of all voyages are.
[00:20:39.638]And we can get those gender breakdowns.
[00:20:42.641]So we used what we had.
[00:20:45.077]And
[00:20:47.112]we measure this by
[00:20:48.313]using the percent female
[00:20:49.648]just because it's
[00:20:50.349]kind of straight forward
[00:20:52.317]as a measure of gender composition.
[00:20:55.787]So this just gives you
[00:20:56.922]now, this doesn't have gender in it.
[00:20:58.824]This just gives you a
[00:21:00.726]an idea of the volume
[00:21:03.128]of embarkation strike, actually,
[00:21:06.698]ships leaving Africa
[00:21:08.900]as captured by the database.
[00:21:10.569]You can see,
[00:21:11.403]as we would expect few in that 1500s.
[00:21:15.474]But the big volume of
[00:21:18.577]ships leaving with slaves
[00:21:20.379]occurred, you know, after the 1650s
[00:21:24.616]and and by the beginning
[00:21:26.918]of the 20th century.
[00:21:28.020]Certainly those that
[00:21:29.821]there was a big decline. Right?
[00:21:31.490]So you see that big leap.
[00:21:35.460]So the first thing I want to say
[00:21:37.462]is that we found overall a shift
[00:21:41.066]toward more men and boys
[00:21:44.436]between the period of 1514,
[00:21:47.039]which is when we had our first ship
[00:21:48.807]that was leaving where we could
[00:21:50.642]we could figure out the gender breakdown.
[00:21:53.045]Up until 1864.
[00:21:55.147]So if you start with the bottom bar
[00:21:57.983]and you move up right the bottom bar,
[00:22:01.887]the white part of the bar,
[00:22:03.588]and then the sort of the next
[00:22:04.890]lightest gray is heavily female
[00:22:07.793]predominant and female predominant.
[00:22:09.761]And you can see those two segments of the
[00:22:12.964]of the first period of the bar
[00:22:15.600]are much larger. Right.
[00:22:18.437]Then those segments,
[00:22:19.671]as you kind of move up,
[00:22:21.540]as you go into the
[00:22:23.041]the more recent period.
[00:22:25.143]We're calling this generally
[00:22:26.578]the premodern period.
[00:22:27.879]I know that it's not perfect, but
[00:22:30.716]this is kind of before
[00:22:32.384]the large scale immigration
[00:22:34.252]to the United States,
[00:22:35.987]because before the large scale
[00:22:37.889]immigration of largely
[00:22:39.491]workers to the United States from Europe,
[00:22:43.295]there was large scale
[00:22:44.930]force migration that
[00:22:46.365]who were also workers from from Africa.
[00:22:51.169]So you could see this shift
[00:22:52.104]toward more men.
[00:22:53.638]And we would have never thought that
[00:22:56.241]that would have happened.
[00:22:57.776]We didn't know what
[00:22:58.844]what to expect, frankly.
[00:23:02.147]Here you can see this one and
[00:23:03.715]the next slide I'm going to show you.
[00:23:05.384]The Bight of Biafra was an area
[00:23:08.720]on the African continent at the time.
[00:23:11.857]Further west, right?
[00:23:13.759]If you're looking
[00:23:14.259]at the continent of the east
[00:23:17.362]and you can see again
[00:23:18.697]this shift away from women and girls
[00:23:22.501]to more men and boys.
[00:23:25.437]And then we also have Central Africa,
[00:23:28.640]the way the geography
[00:23:29.841]is coded at the time,
[00:23:31.576]which largely represents
[00:23:33.011]the area
[00:23:33.712]that we might know as Angola.
[00:23:36.882]And again,
[00:23:37.582]that same kind of shift is more
[00:23:39.918]in the more sort of
[00:23:41.286]the more recent upward bars you see
[00:23:44.523]certainly more men than women.
[00:23:47.659]And in the earlier
[00:23:49.161]bars, more women than men.
[00:23:53.031]So then we moved.
[00:23:53.732]And into trying to use data
[00:23:57.202]that could tell us
[00:23:58.036]something about the gendered flows
[00:24:00.772]in what we'll call
[00:24:02.207]the first modern
[00:24:03.675]period, 1800 to about 1924.
[00:24:08.313]And
[00:24:09.881]it's really hard to find
[00:24:12.317]data that are flow data.
[00:24:14.786]Flow data really
[00:24:16.321]tell us about people who are leaving
[00:24:19.491]and then people who are arriving.
[00:24:22.160]And it's that nexus
[00:24:23.628]which is the flow piece.
[00:24:25.864]And it's very hard to find these data,
[00:24:27.532]so there was one published volume
[00:24:30.101]that Donna Gabbacia knew about
[00:24:32.270]I didn't know about,
[00:24:34.439]and
[00:24:36.074]this was
[00:24:37.375]published by these Italians in 1933
[00:24:40.779]for for immigrants
[00:24:42.080]from a few countries before 1840.
[00:24:44.983]And for lots of immigrants,
[00:24:46.852]people leaving countries
[00:24:50.789]after 1840.
[00:24:53.525]But again, less data
[00:24:55.126]in the very early part
[00:24:56.361]of the 20th century.
[00:24:57.329]But this I've been told
[00:24:59.164]I'm sure some of you in
[00:25:00.165]this room are historians.
[00:25:01.666]And I've been told that,
[00:25:02.834]you know, I better stop
[00:25:04.569]worrying about data
[00:25:06.905]as much as I worry about,
[00:25:08.507]as a, as a sociologist
[00:25:10.609]and a demographer,
[00:25:11.476]because historians take what they can get
[00:25:14.946]and then try to piece,
[00:25:16.781]you know, various kinds of data together
[00:25:19.351]to tell the story.
[00:25:22.220]So the data are not perfect.
[00:25:24.456]You can read their limitations.
[00:25:26.925]But this is what we have.
[00:25:29.828]So, again, we're going to start here,
[00:25:32.130]just looking at the
[00:25:33.565]the black line is the total number of
[00:25:36.434]immigrants, people
[00:25:37.369]leaving their countries.
[00:25:39.938]And
[00:25:41.039]and then you can
[00:25:41.973]look at the percent female
[00:25:43.742]in the lighter.
[00:25:45.343]And, you know, a lot of bumps
[00:25:47.212]around high and low, the percent female
[00:25:50.248]corresponds to the axis on the right.
[00:25:52.884]Right.
[00:25:53.285]And the number of emigrants
[00:25:55.854]corresponds to the axis on the left.
[00:25:58.924]And you could see that the you know,
[00:26:01.059]the percent female goes up and down,
[00:26:03.495]but sort of levels off at about 30
[00:26:06.932]between 30, 35 percent.
[00:26:10.235]And after the peak, in, in people
[00:26:15.073]leaving after that
[00:26:16.308]decline happens around 1910.
[00:26:19.578]You see a slight increase right in
[00:26:22.547]in the share
[00:26:23.782]of international migrants who are women.
[00:26:27.752]Here we see immigration.
[00:26:30.589]So this slide, just to put this slide,
[00:26:33.758]just to remind you, is emigration
[00:26:35.360]to accounting the people who are leaving.
[00:26:37.562]OK, this slide are the people coming in.
[00:26:41.499]And here we see a similar peak
[00:26:44.502]in terms of overall volume,
[00:26:46.504]which is what you would think.
[00:26:47.973]You know,
[00:26:48.273]if you have a lot of people leaving,
[00:26:49.641]they have to be coming to somewhere.
[00:26:51.676]So that's a good thing.
[00:26:53.612]But at the same time,
[00:26:54.813]if you look at the percent female.
[00:26:57.816]Well, a little bit higher for immigrants
[00:27:00.986]versus emigrants and again,
[00:27:04.322]kind of around the 40 percent, 35 to
[00:27:08.093]40 percent share.
[00:27:12.063]So, you know, quick summary,
[00:27:14.532]early coerced migrations,
[00:27:17.335]relatively more women
[00:27:19.504]and girls early on then
[00:27:23.408]and then that shifts over
[00:27:24.943]to becoming more male.
[00:27:27.445]There's some national origin
[00:27:29.014]variability there.
[00:27:30.315]But again, you know,
[00:27:31.282]we don't have that much data
[00:27:32.450]to be able to think too much there,
[00:27:33.985]but we have a little bit.
[00:27:35.487]And then the later
[00:27:36.721]kind of worker migrations,
[00:27:38.757]largely from Europe,
[00:27:40.625]you see some convergence
[00:27:42.293]toward masculinization
[00:27:43.995]in, in the late eighteen hundreds.
[00:27:48.867]With you know, there's
[00:27:50.702]some peaks of more women earlier on.
[00:27:56.675]So let's move them a little bit forward.
[00:27:59.444]So why was
[00:28:01.413]the discovery of women
[00:28:04.249]in these flows so late to be realized?
[00:28:07.352]So if migrations had begun
[00:28:09.254]to feminize earlier
[00:28:12.257]and they had, let's say, in the 1910s.
[00:28:14.893]Right.
[00:28:15.093]We're looking at about
[00:28:15.894]40 percent of migrants being women.
[00:28:20.565]Why do scholars then discover this
[00:28:24.235]in the 1970s or 78 years later?
[00:28:29.340]And,
[00:28:31.042]you know, we started saying, OK,
[00:28:33.411]now we really need to
[00:28:34.579]try to answer that question.
[00:28:37.248]And
[00:28:39.584]we began to use some flow
[00:28:41.486]data, again, selective data.
[00:28:44.723]But if we're trying to kind of focus
[00:28:47.092]now in on the 20th century
[00:28:49.294]to see what we can learn
[00:28:51.229]about shifts at this time.
[00:28:53.164]So here we have
[00:28:56.601]we have the percent female on the
[00:29:00.438]on the left axis here.
[00:29:02.340]And then you have two lines,
[00:29:03.541]one for immigrants and one for emigrants.
[00:29:06.544]And you can see that
[00:29:07.946]with respect to immigrants,
[00:29:09.481]the percent female begins to approach,
[00:29:13.051]50 percent begins to approach
[00:29:15.386]a gender balanced situation.
[00:29:18.990]In the 1940s,
[00:29:21.526]probably immediately after World War Two,
[00:29:25.029]and even at its lowest point,
[00:29:27.398]it still is just above 20 percent.
[00:29:31.102]And then for emigrants,
[00:29:33.204]the overall share of women is,
[00:29:35.840]generally speaking, higher.
[00:29:38.510]Here we're looking at a, the volume.
[00:29:42.814]Let me go back to that one, these books.
[00:29:45.917]Yeah, let me go back to this.
[00:29:48.052]Wait a minute. Yeah.
[00:29:49.954]These are increases then
[00:29:52.357]in emigrants and immigrants after 1930.
[00:29:55.860]This is now 1945,
[00:29:58.630]moving to the second half
[00:30:00.398]of the 20th century.
[00:30:02.534]And again,
[00:30:03.434]we're just now looking at the volume
[00:30:05.503]and not not women,
[00:30:07.972]not the gender composition,
[00:30:09.641]but you can see now
[00:30:11.376]flows into the US and other countries.
[00:30:15.180]Immigrants and emigrants,
[00:30:16.648]people around the world.
[00:30:18.216]And this starts after World
[00:30:20.652]War Two, in part
[00:30:21.986]because of all the disruption
[00:30:24.022]and the instability
[00:30:25.290]of populations in Europe
[00:30:26.925]after World War Two,
[00:30:28.827]which actually had
[00:30:30.662]started decades and decades earlier,
[00:30:33.364]but continues, especially
[00:30:35.867]in a number of countries
[00:30:37.101]like the US, really picks up
[00:30:39.304]after the 1960s with some changes in U.S.
[00:30:43.208]immigration policy.
[00:30:45.577]And then you can see the shares of women,
[00:30:48.379]they drop during the same period
[00:30:50.715]about 1945, up to 1985.
[00:30:54.586]They drop, but they started fairly high.
[00:30:56.821]So they're just again,
[00:30:58.223]they're dropping to about 40,
[00:31:00.692]a bit over 40 percent.
[00:31:05.230]And then here, the percent
[00:31:06.831]female stabilizes after 1960.
[00:31:10.034]These are global
[00:31:11.169]immigration totals, again,
[00:31:12.770]a very similar story.
[00:31:16.140]So why the belated discovery?
[00:31:18.776]Three developments
[00:31:21.679]facilitated the discovery of women
[00:31:24.883]basically discovering women
[00:31:26.651]in the statistics, right?
[00:31:28.052]If you go back to the Hania Zlotnik
[00:31:32.123]quote, one, our growth
[00:31:34.092]in national governance over migration
[00:31:37.395]and you know, I know we live,
[00:31:40.098]by the way, I'm happy
[00:31:40.999]to take any questions about migration
[00:31:44.168]at the border in the U.S.
[00:31:45.904]around the world when we go to Q&A.
[00:31:50.341]But we need to remember,
[00:31:52.710]despite the politics
[00:31:54.479]around migration now,
[00:31:56.614]the role of national governments
[00:31:58.983]in controlling borders and controlling
[00:32:02.487]who enters and labeling
[00:32:04.222]people in different ways
[00:32:06.291]really is a 20th century.
[00:32:09.994]And we mostly, you know,
[00:32:12.330]I would say early 20th
[00:32:13.598]century, up to mid 20th century
[00:32:16.000]emerging process.
[00:32:18.102]So countries in the
[00:32:19.404]in the eighteen hundreds.
[00:32:20.438]I mean they counted you
[00:32:22.073]if you came off a boat,
[00:32:24.175]but they didn't necessarily count you
[00:32:26.411]as legal or illegal
[00:32:27.812]or anywhere in between.
[00:32:29.380]All of that is a really a recent
[00:32:33.785]as in the second half
[00:32:34.953]of the 20th century,
[00:32:37.322]emergent practice.
[00:32:39.958]So national governments begin to really,
[00:32:44.462]you know, control
[00:32:46.597]control who comes in.
[00:32:49.200]There's a push by demographers
[00:32:52.170]for standardized definitions,
[00:32:55.440]and that, of course, actually fails.
[00:32:57.241]But that is something that
[00:32:58.576]Hania Zlotnik is behind.
[00:33:01.112]And then feminist demography
[00:33:02.780]finds its voice in the United Nations,
[00:33:04.882]not only with her,
[00:33:05.984]but with a number of other women who are,
[00:33:10.922]you know, trailblazers
[00:33:12.724]essentially in the field of demography,
[00:33:16.260]and they find their voice
[00:33:18.196]and get their degrees
[00:33:19.397]and find their voice in the 70s and 80s.
[00:33:23.434]So just a few things about history
[00:33:25.403]so that we remember,
[00:33:28.039]you know, most borders were relatively
[00:33:30.141]open in the 19th century
[00:33:33.344]and even into the first half of the 20th.
[00:33:36.481]No complex categories.
[00:33:39.050]I mean, when we had
[00:33:41.119]when the US had its war with Mexico,
[00:33:44.155]the Mexican American
[00:33:45.490]War, the Mexico, U.S.
[00:33:47.425]war in the 1860s
[00:33:49.660]at that time after Mexico lost
[00:33:53.364]in that war and gave
[00:33:55.333]a whole lot of territory
[00:33:57.035]to the United States,
[00:33:58.770]people who were living around
[00:34:00.938]the old border regions
[00:34:02.774]and the new border regions,
[00:34:04.475]they made decisions
[00:34:05.543]about which side they were going to,
[00:34:08.079]you know, either remain on or move to.
[00:34:11.516]And there were no
[00:34:13.217]there was nobody counting
[00:34:15.153]and saying yes or no to those decisions.
[00:34:18.489]So the early 20th century
[00:34:20.024]begins to impose these
[00:34:22.193]restrictions in U.S.
[00:34:24.162]immigration law.
[00:34:25.430]There were restrictions based on race
[00:34:28.533]that began in the 1880s in
[00:34:32.804]in U.S. immigration law.
[00:34:35.440]And then in 1924, it was the big
[00:34:38.943]most restrictionist
[00:34:41.712]immigration act in the United States.
[00:34:44.348]And that was based
[00:34:45.383]on race and nationality
[00:34:48.119]and ethnicity and class.
[00:34:50.154]And only certain
[00:34:51.022]people were allowed to come in very,
[00:34:52.723]very small numbers.
[00:34:54.125]There were quotas and limits based on
[00:34:57.528]who you were, where you came from,
[00:34:59.197]how much money you had,
[00:35:00.598]and certainly what
[00:35:01.365]your race and ethnicity was.
[00:35:04.502]And then in the middle
[00:35:05.636]of the 20th century,
[00:35:07.038]more new nations, nations
[00:35:08.606]let's say that that hadn't
[00:35:10.875]ever thought about this before,
[00:35:13.411]sort of began to decide or made decisions
[00:35:16.981]about how to manage migration
[00:35:18.883]and the power to control borders.
[00:35:21.652]Really, became by the 1970s, 80s,
[00:35:25.723]the power to control
[00:35:26.791]borders became symbolic
[00:35:28.392]of national strength
[00:35:30.561]and governance and sovereignty.
[00:35:34.532]And
[00:35:36.234]many nations during this time
[00:35:38.402]of emerging government,
[00:35:40.004]government control
[00:35:41.639]begin to report numbers to the U.N.
[00:35:43.674]because the U.N.
[00:35:44.275]is making requests,
[00:35:45.309]how many of these people do you have?
[00:35:48.412]And there's a whole lot over a series of
[00:35:51.582]decades that occurs between the U.N.
[00:35:54.719]and individual nations to number one,
[00:35:57.722]get them to just tell us in any
[00:35:59.657]or to tell them the UN.
[00:36:01.826]In any given year,
[00:36:02.927]how many foreigner people, farmers
[00:36:06.597]or you could call them
[00:36:07.899]people who are living in that country
[00:36:10.234]who were not born in that country.
[00:36:11.769]Just how many are there?
[00:36:14.138]And that begins to become,
[00:36:17.275]as you can imagine,
[00:36:18.543]a political issue,
[00:36:19.544]but it's somewhat contained in the U.N.
[00:36:22.346]space.
[00:36:23.881]And as the U.N.
[00:36:24.815]continues to publish data
[00:36:27.084]now, initially the U.N.
[00:36:28.753]was asking countries for flow counts,
[00:36:32.523]estimates of flows, people
[00:36:34.125]coming in and people coming out.
[00:36:36.827]And over time,
[00:36:37.728]if you read some of these bullets,
[00:36:39.197]and the ones on the next page,
[00:36:41.199]you'll see that
[00:36:42.767]over time flow data become less and less
[00:36:48.139]available, partly because governments
[00:36:51.409]make decisions to not invest
[00:36:53.511]in those kinds of data systems.
[00:36:56.614]And we end up relying on something called
[00:37:00.985]stock data.
[00:37:01.352]We'll talk about that in a minute.
[00:37:03.321]So the short term consequence of the U.N.
[00:37:06.357]initially pushing for data from countries
[00:37:09.694]is that there's, you know, the quality.
[00:37:13.564]You know, there's
[00:37:14.131]actually some movement
[00:37:15.733]by governments to capture flow data well,
[00:37:19.904]but problems persist.
[00:37:21.806]And over time, you can see in these
[00:37:25.042]old demographic yearbooks that we read,
[00:37:29.513]which is not exactly dynamic reading,
[00:37:33.684]we we really found that there were,
[00:37:36.487]you know, debates in the footnotes.
[00:37:38.122]Right.
[00:37:38.389]You could tell that people and countries
[00:37:40.391]were debating and
[00:37:41.259]pushing back and saying,
[00:37:42.693]we can give you this, but not that
[00:37:45.529]in the next 10 years.
[00:37:46.897]There's really no consistent data
[00:37:51.602]by country
[00:37:53.671]and certainly no
[00:37:54.972]consistent data by sex or countries.
[00:37:58.976]After 1985, and then in the yearbooks,
[00:38:01.646]you see only 40
[00:38:02.813]countries are submitting
[00:38:03.981]flow data by sex.
[00:38:06.183]So something had to change.
[00:38:08.286]So the U.N.
[00:38:10.588]and the world really
[00:38:12.423]shifts to focusing on
[00:38:14.425]or defining migrants
[00:38:15.960]in terms of what we call stock data.
[00:38:19.030]So if any of you, I'm
[00:38:21.232]sure some of you
[00:38:22.466]hopefully are accounted for
[00:38:24.502]or filled out your census form last year
[00:38:27.571]in, you know, whether it was
[00:38:29.373]you and a household head,
[00:38:30.808]the household head has to report,
[00:38:32.710]who in the house is foreign born,
[00:38:35.079]if there's anybody
[00:38:36.147]foreign born in the house?
[00:38:37.248]And how many foreign born persons
[00:38:38.849]are in the house.
[00:38:39.850]That those data once aggregated up
[00:38:42.353]across the United States, are stock data.
[00:38:45.790]Right.
[00:38:46.157]Because it's just saying
[00:38:47.325]who is foreign born?
[00:38:48.259]You're not born in the US,
[00:38:50.094]then you're part of the foreign born
[00:38:52.830]stock in living in the United States.
[00:38:56.267]Right, in 2020.
[00:38:58.035]So that's what stock data
[00:38:59.203]are they come
[00:39:00.037]largely from different
[00:39:01.806]countries' censuses.
[00:39:03.941]And then, you know,
[00:39:05.543]gender is certainly
[00:39:06.677]reported in the census.
[00:39:08.012]So it becomes much more straightforward
[00:39:11.115]for countries to report
[00:39:12.483]this, than to report numbers of people
[00:39:14.985]coming in, numbers of people leaving,
[00:39:17.555]because that requires
[00:39:18.689]that countries have to actually do
[00:39:20.791]some surveillance work.
[00:39:22.660]And I think that's harder.
[00:39:24.195]It takes more money
[00:39:25.730]and certainly harder to do well.
[00:39:29.367]So
[00:39:31.535]after World War Two,
[00:39:33.003]really, in the 1960s, US demographers
[00:39:36.240]start using stock data
[00:39:37.575]for all sorts of things.
[00:39:40.978]And the yearbook occaisionally begins
[00:39:42.713]to publish tabular data or aggregate data
[00:39:46.484]by sex in the late 50s, early 60s
[00:39:51.922].
[00:39:52.223]And but really takes to the mid 1970s.
[00:39:55.626]And the U. N. now,
[00:39:58.729]you know, uses stock data.
[00:40:00.664]And how can you publish it?
[00:40:02.867]If a country has flow
[00:40:04.068]data, they'll publish it.
[00:40:06.237]But largely, this is now
[00:40:09.573]a stock data story.
[00:40:12.143]There are implications.
[00:40:13.344]And I don't have enough time.
[00:40:14.311]If you took my class
[00:40:15.513]or you want to take my class,
[00:40:16.547]and we could talk about that,
[00:40:18.382]because what you learn from
[00:40:19.750]stock data is different
[00:40:21.585]than what you learn from flow data.
[00:40:23.621]And in fact,
[00:40:24.622]we probably the answer the questions
[00:40:26.824]that maybe some of you will ask at the
[00:40:28.793]at the end of the talk,
[00:40:29.827]we probably really want flow data
[00:40:32.696]to be able to answer those questions and
[00:40:34.365]almost always we have some.
[00:40:37.435]So this is a slide
[00:40:38.969]about the feminist demographer's,
[00:40:40.604]which I felt like
[00:40:41.772]we really had to include here.
[00:40:45.910]Most of the flow data
[00:40:47.445]before the feminist demographer
[00:40:48.846]came into being.
[00:40:50.214]Most of the flow data was coming from
[00:40:53.017]the ILO,
[00:40:53.784]the International Labor Organization.
[00:40:56.720]And it's a labor organization.
[00:40:58.789]So it's concerned about migrant workers,
[00:41:01.325]but not all migrants,
[00:41:03.861]which is fine.
[00:41:04.762]They do a great job
[00:41:05.763]on migrant workers, but
[00:41:07.832]where they do at least
[00:41:09.066]some things on migrant workers.
[00:41:10.601]But their focus is on workers,
[00:41:12.937]which doesn't include all women and all
[00:41:15.372]men who cross international borders.
[00:41:19.243]And but there is
[00:41:20.845]this emergence which,
[00:41:22.012]you know, reflects a normative shift.
[00:41:24.515]Right.
[00:41:24.849]Or cultural shift toward
[00:41:26.750]realizing that women and men's
[00:41:30.521]voices are important
[00:41:33.424]with respect to these estimates.
[00:41:36.894]So
[00:41:38.662]you can read there
[00:41:39.563]are limits of stock data.
[00:41:42.633]And,
[00:41:44.969]you know,
[00:41:45.236]every country has a different process
[00:41:47.471]for their census.
[00:41:49.740]And in many
[00:41:52.843]censuses, are high quality data,
[00:41:55.412]but then censuses also can be political,
[00:41:58.482]for example, in the country of Lebanon
[00:42:00.651]hasn't had a census since 1930
[00:42:03.687]because there's been a
[00:42:07.057]conflict and tension
[00:42:08.359]between the Christians and the Muslims,
[00:42:11.695]and they've never done a census since.
[00:42:14.565]So.
[00:42:17.301]So
[00:42:18.135]what we do instead is
[00:42:19.370]we begin to use stock data
[00:42:21.639]for the more current periods
[00:42:23.374]to understand what the consequences are
[00:42:27.177]and
[00:42:29.146]of having more women or more men
[00:42:31.982]and the IPUMS international and
[00:42:36.253]IPUMS USA,
[00:42:38.689]which is the Integrated Public Use
[00:42:41.392]Microdata is essentially whenever you see
[00:42:44.762]IPUMS, it's census
[00:42:46.063]data could be from different countries
[00:42:49.033]or it could be from the
[00:42:50.267]US only, or it could be from
[00:42:53.337]many countries around the world.
[00:42:54.672]University of Minnesota
[00:42:56.173]Population Center
[00:42:57.241]has a lot of these data available.
[00:43:00.744]They're all consistently
[00:43:02.212]coded it's all public
[00:43:04.114]use and available for analysis.
[00:43:07.585]So you can leverage these data,
[00:43:09.653]they're micro data,
[00:43:10.654]so from my point of view,
[00:43:11.855]it's not data in a table.
[00:43:13.624]It's actually data in a data file
[00:43:15.893]that then I can use with a staff package
[00:43:18.963]to actually look myself at things
[00:43:21.832]that, you know, that I want to look at.
[00:43:23.968]So it has age.
[00:43:25.302]And one of the absolutely most important
[00:43:29.340]predictors of the gender composition
[00:43:32.443]of international migrants
[00:43:34.612]in a place is age.
[00:43:36.847]Because what do we know?
[00:43:37.982]We know women live longer than men.
[00:43:40.017]So if you if you ask in 2020,
[00:43:42.386]how many foreign born people
[00:43:44.622]are in the US, you're going to get
[00:43:47.091]if you don't make that age
[00:43:48.525]specific, or standardizing
[00:43:50.127]for just that estimate by age,
[00:43:52.663]you're going to have a
[00:43:53.597]higher percent female
[00:43:56.333]than you should get
[00:43:58.369]because women tend
[00:43:59.603]to live longer than men.
[00:44:00.771]So anyway, these two
[00:44:02.106]are they offer us some
[00:44:05.275]advantages.
[00:44:06.176]We really wanted to understand
[00:44:07.378]how much variation exists today
[00:44:10.681]and in the past,
[00:44:12.483]and I'm just going to show you
[00:44:15.085]this and maybe one other slide
[00:44:16.887]and then I'll close it all for your Q&A.
[00:44:19.990]So this is probably the most data
[00:44:22.893]I've ever used in any analysis.
[00:44:26.196]It reflects, as you can see, sixty
[00:44:29.566]seven countries,
[00:44:30.534]more than a hundred
[00:44:31.402]and forty actual censuses
[00:44:34.605]from so obviously multiple censuses
[00:44:37.041]from some countries.
[00:44:39.143]You can get
[00:44:40.611]and then it kind of
[00:44:42.079]represents more than half, a mill-
[00:44:45.382]half of what a billion people
[00:44:49.219]are, really a lot of people.
[00:44:52.556]And then we standardized
[00:44:54.324]and you can see the line that's green
[00:44:57.461]versus the line that's blue.
[00:44:59.730]The un-standardized line.
[00:45:01.865]Right. It's not standardized by age.
[00:45:03.901]So the percent female,
[00:45:05.302]all those estimates, the individual
[00:45:09.106]circles and triangles represent
[00:45:11.208]different countries' censuses.
[00:45:13.310]And you can see that really there is,
[00:45:17.181]you know, a slight correction
[00:45:18.749]that we do for age.
[00:45:20.117]But the story is generally the same.
[00:45:22.252]We're kind of gone
[00:45:23.687]around the world
[00:45:24.755]as these censuses suggest.
[00:45:26.990]We're in a situation
[00:45:28.292]where it's largely a gender balanced
[00:45:32.730]international migration
[00:45:34.565]population currently.
[00:45:38.302]And then just to give you a sense
[00:45:39.503]of what we do in the
[00:45:41.004]book, in more detail,
[00:45:43.006]we go through different
[00:45:44.174]continents of the world
[00:45:46.176]and we ask what what does
[00:45:48.145]the gender composition look like
[00:45:50.380]and how is it shifted over time?
[00:45:52.549]So we can only do that,
[00:45:53.917]obviously, for countries
[00:45:56.420]that have census data, multiple censuses.
[00:46:00.357]But you can see if we just go over
[00:46:01.959]to Kenya, for example,
[00:46:03.627]you can see that start 1969,
[00:46:06.597]go up to 2009, and you can see that the
[00:46:10.667]the gender composition,
[00:46:12.936]because it doesn't change,
[00:46:14.705]frankly, by that much,
[00:46:16.140]but it moves toward more women than men
[00:46:19.610]or toward more women
[00:46:21.111]in Burkina Faso,
[00:46:22.613]you don't see really any change.
[00:46:24.848]And we see gender balance
[00:46:26.683]in both of those years.
[00:46:28.318]In Mali, you see a bit,
[00:46:30.387]you know, a shift toward fewer
[00:46:33.423]women in the flow than men
[00:46:35.025]in more recent times, but et cetera.
[00:46:37.761]This is the kind of work
[00:46:39.463]that we have been able to do
[00:46:41.932]only based on all the censuses
[00:46:43.801]that are available.
[00:46:45.269]And we can go through all this.
[00:46:47.504]Just want to show the U.S.
[00:46:49.206]the U.S.
[00:46:49.840]has been pretty much
[00:46:51.341]a gender balance for decades.
[00:46:53.610]And you see kind of largely
[00:46:55.913]the same story in Canada.
[00:46:57.381]For Mexico,
[00:47:00.918]Mexico's foreign born population
[00:47:02.886]is so small, it's less than one percent.
[00:47:06.757]And there you see some shift
[00:47:09.593]toward more women.
[00:47:11.094]But overall, the gender composition
[00:47:13.764]among foreign born immigrants in Mexico
[00:47:17.167]is more male than it is
[00:47:18.569]in the United States and in Canada.
[00:47:21.672]So these are our findings,
[00:47:23.440]they're country specific.
[00:47:25.409]I'll I'll say that
[00:47:27.711]since, you know,
[00:47:28.612]number three, since 1970,
[00:47:30.647]you see this shift toward more balance.
[00:47:33.083]And then for certain countries,
[00:47:35.352]South, South Africa,
[00:47:37.154]the Philippines, et
[00:47:38.689]cetera, women's presence
[00:47:40.757]has grown substantially,
[00:47:43.460]suggesting a more complex set
[00:47:45.796]of gender dynamics since 1970 or so,
[00:47:48.999]which is when these censuses
[00:47:51.301]generally start.
[00:47:53.303]And
[00:47:56.406]then we look at everything.
[00:47:57.941]For example,
[00:47:58.542]we go back into those continents
[00:48:01.278]and we asked, for example, for getting in
[00:48:03.947]Rwanda, et cetera,
[00:48:05.215]for these countries in Africa.
[00:48:07.718]These are the top three national origins
[00:48:11.588]of immigrants in those countries.
[00:48:15.192]So
[00:48:16.927]we can say, (let me
[00:48:18.262]see if my mouse works) Yeah.
[00:48:20.464]So we can see here in Mali,
[00:48:23.066]you know, largely it's a story,
[00:48:25.469]no matter if you're in Mali
[00:48:27.237]and you were born in the Ivory Coast,
[00:48:28.839]Burkina Faso or Guinea,
[00:48:30.841]doesn't matter largely if there are just
[00:48:33.844]about the same number of women
[00:48:35.746]as there are men in South Africa.
[00:48:38.081]However, you can see
[00:48:40.117]quite a different story,
[00:48:41.285]especially for those
[00:48:42.586]people from Mozambique and not in Africa.
[00:48:45.555]Historically, many people from Mozambique
[00:48:48.692]were actually working in the mines
[00:48:51.962]in South Africa,
[00:48:53.096]which is very physical work.
[00:48:55.098]And it has a long history
[00:48:56.466]of being heavily
[00:48:57.334]male dominated work,
[00:48:59.069]although that's shifting somewhat now.
[00:49:01.772]So this is kind of the sa-
[00:49:03.006]a similar kind of thing
[00:49:05.242]where we're looking
[00:49:06.009]at the gender composition
[00:49:07.377]of migrants in different countries,
[00:49:09.446]but now we're focusing on the top
[00:49:11.648]three national origins to look at that.
[00:49:17.387]And here for the United
[00:49:18.655]States, you can see
[00:49:19.823]the story has been,
[00:49:21.158]has always been and continues
[00:49:23.026]to be that for the Philippines,
[00:49:25.862]for people coming in, for Filipinos,
[00:49:27.864]they're overwhelmingly women.
[00:49:32.202]Whereas if,
[00:49:34.304]you know, we're thinking about
[00:49:36.573]migrants from Mexico,
[00:49:38.842]it's more men than women,
[00:49:40.544]although although that has shifted,
[00:49:43.180]because if you look at
[00:49:43.981]that over time, it's really shifted
[00:49:45.615]from about 35 percent now to over 40.
[00:49:49.753]And then you can see
[00:49:51.321]what that story looks like.
[00:49:53.957]So we see sizable variation by
[00:49:55.892]national origin.
[00:49:57.794]So I know I'm running out of time.
[00:50:00.797]Just I'll give you a sense.
[00:50:02.232]We go, we go and we use these data
[00:50:05.869]to look at the US only.
[00:50:08.572]And this is a figure
[00:50:10.140]I'd like to show again,
[00:50:11.308]percent female on the left axis.
[00:50:13.910]And we're we're using
[00:50:15.779]census data from 1850 up to current,
[00:50:18.749]and we're just saying once the
[00:50:20.751]what's the percent female
[00:50:22.052]among foreign born persons
[00:50:23.854]in the United States?
[00:50:25.322]And you can see it shifts a bit,
[00:50:27.324]but it starts here.
[00:50:29.026]Forty seven percent,
[00:50:30.193]the lowest, it gets to
[00:50:31.261]about forty five percent.
[00:50:32.963]And then it continues to be
[00:50:35.499]gender balanced.
[00:50:37.634]This green line is what I simulated.
[00:50:41.371]I actually removed Mexican foreign born
[00:50:44.975]and recalculated these estimates.
[00:50:47.144]And you can see after 1960 to 70,
[00:50:53.383]what happens here is that
[00:50:54.885]many of the inflows from Mexico
[00:50:57.954]are unauthorized.
[00:50:59.923]And at least in the first couple
[00:51:02.025]of decades of that unauthorized flow,
[00:51:04.561]they're heavily male.
[00:51:06.296]And so we just wanted to see
[00:51:07.731]what would happen if we removed them.
[00:51:11.735]So various findings
[00:51:13.804]that we've already gone to.
[00:51:15.572]So let me let me
[00:51:19.209]you know, I'm not
[00:51:19.876]I have a few more slides.
[00:51:21.078]I'm not going to go into it.
[00:51:22.079]But the overall story
[00:51:23.580]is one of moderation, meaning
[00:51:27.517]women are inflows from the earliest point
[00:51:30.887]in time that we could capture them.
[00:51:33.890]And there are some shifts,
[00:51:35.659]but it does seem
[00:51:36.693]like a lot of the recent
[00:51:38.261]data suggests convergence
[00:51:40.397]that we're in many parts of the world.
[00:51:43.900]There's gender balance rather than one,
[00:51:47.037]you know, more women or heavily more
[00:51:50.040]women or more men.
[00:51:53.577]So I have various other things,
[00:51:55.145]but I always do this.
[00:51:56.179]So but meaning I always overdo,
[00:51:59.950]which has served me well,
[00:52:03.253]let me let me just end
[00:52:05.555]with a few final comments first.
[00:52:08.258]There are some advantages of bridging
[00:52:10.961]what we call the
[00:52:12.162]epistemological and
[00:52:13.964]methodological divergence
[00:52:15.699]that characterizes
[00:52:16.766]a lot of the social sciences.
[00:52:19.503]Right.
[00:52:19.836]If you knew whether you're students
[00:52:22.873]who have taken classes from faculty,
[00:52:24.741]whether your faculty
[00:52:25.876]or graduate students,
[00:52:27.844]often faculty, graduate students
[00:52:29.713]introduce themselves
[00:52:31.047]as this is the kind of work that I do.
[00:52:34.718]And it's usually one thing or another.
[00:52:37.954]It's one method or another method.
[00:52:41.024]Increasingly, we're being
[00:52:42.592]asked by universities
[00:52:44.494]to kind of move into
[00:52:45.495]the multi-method,
[00:52:47.197]multidisciplinary space.
[00:52:49.332]I think we probably everybody
[00:52:51.201]on this campus,
[00:52:51.935]most people on campuses
[00:52:53.336]are shifting in that way.
[00:52:55.172]But still, there is that divide
[00:52:57.908]between qualitative and
[00:52:59.176]quantitative, for example.
[00:53:01.745]And I think that we are
[00:53:05.515]we're trying to bridge that divide
[00:53:07.918]in this analysis.
[00:53:09.786]And then, you know,
[00:53:12.355]we think it's interesting to highlight
[00:53:14.624]how and when scholars
[00:53:16.126]create data or create measures
[00:53:20.363]that are used in gender and migration.
[00:53:23.800]What do people assume?
[00:53:25.969]I mean, I because
[00:53:27.137]maybe I co-wrote the book
[00:53:28.772]with Donna,
[00:53:29.406]I continue to get
[00:53:30.640]manuscripts by journals.
[00:53:32.509]Would you review this?
[00:53:33.510]And the manuscripts
[00:53:34.311]say, feminization of migration.
[00:53:37.480]And then, OK, if they use that word, OK,
[00:53:40.951]but then they define
[00:53:42.385]feminization of migration
[00:53:44.221]in one of those big waves
[00:53:46.590]we we looked at,
[00:53:48.191]you know, I mentioned earlier,
[00:53:49.726]you know, a little bit of an uptick.
[00:53:51.528]Oh, my God, more women,
[00:53:53.463]or a little more of an uptick, Oh,
[00:53:54.931]my goodness, more men.
[00:53:58.134]And I think we really want to
[00:53:59.769]dig in here to remember
[00:54:01.538]that these statistics are their language.
[00:54:04.241]And we have to sort of
[00:54:05.375]really dig in to decipher what they mean.
[00:54:09.579]I would say really the the big one liner
[00:54:12.349]from the work is that
[00:54:13.383]feminization is not new.
[00:54:15.585]It's not unprecedented or a product
[00:54:19.623]of what we see it
[00:54:21.658]as a product of recent globalization.
[00:54:23.593]That's not the only
[00:54:26.363]moment in recorded history
[00:54:28.865]where we see women being very active.
[00:54:30.734]Thank you!
[00:54:45.482][applause] Questions, really,
[00:54:47.150]I imagine you might
[00:54:48.351]have questions about this,
[00:54:49.686]but you also might have questions
[00:54:51.888]related to anything
[00:54:54.691]in the migration news
[00:54:56.660]that you might see or know,
[00:54:58.795]I'm happy to answer anything,
[00:55:03.099]as long as you don't yell at me,
[00:55:05.235]which has happened to me.
[00:55:07.070]Yes.
[00:55:08.638]I had a question
[00:55:10.540]that
[00:55:12.242]well, I'm goijng to ask it anyway,
[00:55:14.511]because there is
[00:55:15.779]obviously a difference
[00:55:16.846]between the undocumented
[00:55:19.149]and the documented migration
[00:55:20.550]that is happening.
[00:55:21.751]And I think we're talking about
[00:55:23.620]documented migration.
[00:55:24.854]You're right, because it's difficult
[00:55:25.922]to get data from
[00:55:27.857]obviously undocumented migration.
[00:55:29.959]But is there any type of
[00:55:32.562]significant difference
[00:55:33.563]that you've seen
[00:55:34.731]that might happen
[00:55:36.599]or that there's been
[00:55:38.601]between undocumented migration
[00:55:41.538]of females and documented
[00:55:43.473]migration of females? Yeah.
[00:55:45.442]OK, well, so that's your last question.
[00:55:47.777]But let me go with the first
[00:55:50.180]that you didn't quite
[00:55:51.147]say was a question,
[00:55:51.981]because you said it's
[00:55:52.849]probably true, actually.
[00:55:54.884][can you repeat the question]
[00:55:56.219]Yeah, so absolutely. I'll repeat both.
[00:55:59.089]But I think the first
[00:56:00.657]question that you said
[00:56:01.791]is probably not true, which is true.
[00:56:04.861]I know all the data being presented
[00:56:06.830]include both authorized
[00:56:08.665]and unauthorized
[00:56:09.699]or documented and undocumented,
[00:56:12.268]because they're census data
[00:56:14.371]and census data do not ask about
[00:56:18.641]legal status.
[00:56:20.310]It's truly why?
[00:56:21.511]Because, you know,
[00:56:22.512]the whole idea of census data
[00:56:24.447]is for most countries in the world,
[00:56:26.783]is for countries to know
[00:56:28.251]just how many people are here.
[00:56:30.720]Right.
[00:56:31.621]So there are no questions about
[00:56:36.393]authorized status.
[00:56:37.694]OK.
[00:56:38.395]And
[00:56:39.229]and that was actually
[00:56:40.130]a big thing that we discussed
[00:56:41.531]because there aren't
[00:56:42.599]any sets that provide some
[00:56:45.101]information about legal status.
[00:56:48.438]But there's just a few that
[00:56:51.741]I've collected enough data
[00:56:53.343]and that are frankly
[00:56:56.012]high quality,
[00:56:57.380]you know, where I could trust
[00:57:00.316]the reporting of unauthorized status
[00:57:03.653].
[00:57:03.820]OK, so that leads to me
[00:57:05.121]into the second question, which you said,
[00:57:07.657]are there studies
[00:57:09.292]I could be paraphrasing,
[00:57:10.860]so please correct me.
[00:57:12.128]So are there studies about differences
[00:57:16.332]between authorized
[00:57:17.600]and non-authorized again?
[00:57:19.235]Between documented or undocumented.
[00:57:21.371]I use those words interchangeably
[00:57:25.408]with migrants, you know.
[00:57:28.645]And I would and yes,
[00:57:30.914]there are studies there.
[00:57:32.115]I can give you some citations
[00:57:33.817]if you're interested, for example,
[00:57:35.885]in differences in labor force
[00:57:39.522]activity or differences
[00:57:41.324]in reproduction or differences
[00:57:43.626]in community participation.
[00:57:47.730]Yes. You can find
[00:57:50.200]you can find papers written.
[00:57:52.168]And most of the studies I know will draw
[00:57:55.672]from two or three
[00:57:57.774]large projects that have collected data
[00:58:01.778]largely about Mexicans.
[00:58:03.546]And but there's some data on some
[00:58:07.517]there's some data that go beyond that.
[00:58:09.886]But the Mexican Migration
[00:58:11.221]Project is probably the biggest project
[00:58:15.225]that has collected
[00:58:16.493]data on Mexican migrants from the US.
[00:58:20.430]And they started in the 80s.
[00:58:22.932]We continue, I'm on the advisory board.
[00:58:26.669]It's a project that's run
[00:58:28.004]through Doug Massey at
[00:58:30.874]Princeton University and
[00:58:34.644]Jorge Durand who is at the
[00:58:35.178]University of Guadalajara.
[00:58:36.746]Happy to talk to you about that project.
[00:58:38.581]We want to access the data,
[00:58:39.716]all the data, are public use,
[00:58:42.252]and they do a lot of work
[00:58:44.220]with I've worked with the data
[00:58:46.656]for two decades now
[00:58:48.558]in various forms.
[00:58:49.959]so yeah, I think they're you know,
[00:58:52.462]that that could be a resource.
[00:58:59.903]Yeah.
[00:59:00.169]Thank you.
[00:59:00.303]I'm curious about
[00:59:01.738]what are the kind of social
[00:59:03.473]political implications of this data?
[00:59:05.174]I think what if what if
[00:59:07.310]governments, policy makers
[00:59:09.412]do feel conflicted
[00:59:10.980]about immigration patterns?
[00:59:12.982]That's a big part of
[00:59:13.716]the world, maybe even for
[00:59:17.020]the United States is part of some of
[00:59:20.723]that person's question
[00:59:22.125]made me think about this,
[00:59:23.192]because I heard from
[00:59:24.727]some people I know in D.C.
[00:59:27.130]who are working on gathering census data.
[00:59:30.266]There's a lot of concern
[00:59:31.367]about the difficulty of accessing
[00:59:33.002]or getting those records
[00:59:35.572]because many migrants
[00:59:38.341]were afraid to report.
[00:59:39.909]Yeah. Well, OK, well, let's start there.
[00:59:42.612]And that's about reporting
[00:59:43.880]for the 2020 census
[00:59:46.149]and the fear that many
[00:59:47.951]migrants, immigrants in the United States
[00:59:50.086]have in terms of filling
[00:59:51.354]out their census form.
[00:59:53.990]And now we don't really know how much
[00:59:57.493]underreporting of immigrants yet.
[01:00:02.298]We will know because the bureau
[01:00:04.033]does an amazing job of
[01:00:08.838]doing the sensitivity testing after
[01:00:12.141]the big numbers come in
[01:00:13.676]and they go to certain populations
[01:00:15.878]and then we collect data.
[01:00:17.380]And so we will know how much
[01:00:21.384]of an underestimate,
[01:00:22.518]let's say, and probably
[01:00:24.721]there'll be some, I suspect.
[01:00:26.222]And and but how much of an underestimate,
[01:00:28.791]especially in certain communities.
[01:00:31.861]And we do know that 2020 was the year,
[01:00:36.032]the last year of a president
[01:00:38.534]to politicize everything
[01:00:40.536]related to migration.
[01:00:42.305]And made, made many immigrants
[01:00:46.743]fearful, irrespective,
[01:00:48.678]frankly, of legal status.
[01:00:50.747]So unauthorized and authorized
[01:00:53.216]persons were nervous.
[01:00:54.417]I mean that the former president
[01:00:56.152]started a denaturalization project,
[01:01:01.290]where a lot of money
[01:01:02.525]was put into investigating
[01:01:04.560]people who were naturalized
[01:01:06.229]citizens for decades.
[01:01:08.564]And only,
[01:01:09.932]I think about a hundred and
[01:01:11.634]twenty were actually deported
[01:01:14.570]because they ended up
[01:01:16.305]committing serious crimes.
[01:01:18.975]But, you know, that's quite,
[01:01:21.577]you know, that provoked a lot of fear.
[01:01:24.614]And then, of course, there are many U.S.
[01:01:26.315]born children who were adults whose,
[01:01:30.153]in their families,
[01:01:31.054]they're children of immigrants,
[01:01:32.722]and in their families,
[01:01:33.890]not everybody had status.
[01:01:35.792]And so, you know.
[01:01:38.227]Yeah.
[01:01:38.528]So I imagine there'll
[01:01:39.662]be some underreporting.
[01:01:40.897]I do.
[01:01:41.964]I do know that one of the strengths
[01:01:44.600]of the United States,
[01:01:45.635]especially at that
[01:01:46.969]and during those four years, is
[01:01:49.138]that there were many communities
[01:01:51.574]who were very welcoming of migrants.
[01:01:54.310]And there were a
[01:01:55.845]in a number of communities,
[01:01:57.780]there were efforts to reach
[01:02:02.118]foreign born, you know, to go
[01:02:03.453]into foreign born neighborhoods
[01:02:05.121]especially, and to try to reach areas
[01:02:08.691]where there would be underreporting.
[01:02:11.394]The other thing
[01:02:12.495]that the former president did,
[01:02:13.996]which you may have heard of
[01:02:15.598]is that he tried
[01:02:17.133]to get the census
[01:02:19.102]to include a citizenship
[01:02:21.204]question on the census,
[01:02:23.873]and that that went all the way up
[01:02:27.410]in terms of the judicial
[01:02:28.911]system, and it ended up being
[01:02:32.782]struck down.
[01:02:35.151]However, I will say to you,
[01:02:36.919]it was struck down, not on the basis of
[01:02:42.325]having it on the census is wrong.
[01:02:45.194]It was struck down because the way
[01:02:48.431]that the head of
[01:02:49.966]the Department of Commerce,
[01:02:51.501]which is where the census lives,
[01:02:55.538]the way they tried
[01:02:57.540]to force the question onto
[01:03:00.042]the census, was illegal.
[01:03:03.880]So just FYI.
[01:03:05.748]You know, we have
[01:03:06.682]a 2030 census coming out,
[01:03:08.818]but who knows who will be president.
[01:03:11.187]So the the legal issue of whether
[01:03:14.123]or not a citizenship
[01:03:15.124]question on the census
[01:03:17.760]is legal or not really hasn't been,
[01:03:21.364]you know,
[01:03:22.298]hasn't been answered that question.
[01:03:24.100]And hopefully will
[01:03:24.934]never have to be answered.
[01:03:25.902]But
[01:03:27.770]so that was also
[01:03:29.605]being played out in the news
[01:03:31.774]and was a very serious threat.
[01:03:33.643]And the people I know
[01:03:34.710]including the very top
[01:03:35.745]person, was extremely worried
[01:03:38.314]about that.
[01:03:40.149]But remember, the census is not its own,
[01:03:42.852]you know, it sits inside
[01:03:44.654]an arm of the government,
[01:03:45.888]which was run by a political appointee.
[01:03:48.658]And that's where the forcing was.
[01:03:51.928]So, yeah, we'll have to see.
[01:03:54.297]I'm eager to know
[01:03:55.965]to see what the bureau
[01:03:57.567]comes up with in terms of underestimates.
[01:04:01.504]And of course, as you can imagine,
[01:04:03.072]you know,
[01:04:03.806]underestimates of unauthorized persons
[01:04:06.209]will affect those areas where they live.
[01:04:10.179]And, you know, congressional allocations
[01:04:12.982]of real money to those communities,
[01:04:16.352]you know, are at this.
[01:04:23.292]Yes.
[01:04:24.460]For your next book.
[01:04:25.895]Right.
[01:04:28.798]I hear conflicting or somewhat
[01:04:31.234]contradictory evidence on the extent
[01:04:35.204]to which we can take lessons
[01:04:36.739]learned from voluntary migration
[01:04:39.442]like this
[01:04:40.643]to, let's say, refugee and IDP streams.
[01:04:43.880]What, if anything,
[01:04:44.714]have you seen in your data
[01:04:46.182]that allows us to either
[01:04:47.884]draw parallels or not
[01:04:50.953]to the way involuntary migration,
[01:04:53.589]refugee IDP status
[01:04:54.824]has been playing out either
[01:04:55.791]recently or over time? Yeah.
[01:04:58.628]I mean, this is what I, I really
[01:05:03.399]wanted to be able in the current book, right,
[01:05:05.434]is to have an example
[01:05:08.070]of forced migration, which is what that
[01:05:11.440]transatlantic slave database
[01:05:13.876]allows us to do. Right.
[01:05:16.279]With respect to the current moment,
[01:05:17.914]one of the things we know
[01:05:18.948]about most refugee populations
[01:05:22.118]around the world
[01:05:22.919]is that the gender balance is typically,
[01:05:25.855]you know, is typically
[01:05:26.822]a gender balanced population,
[01:05:30.493]because when there is an immediate,
[01:05:33.629]you know, what I call
[01:05:34.697]an exogenous event, right,
[01:05:36.132]something that happens
[01:05:37.400]that affects the entire
[01:05:38.834]community and says,
[01:05:39.936]you better get out of here
[01:05:40.937]or you're going to die.
[01:05:43.072]And that could be an environmental and,
[01:05:45.942]you know, situation
[01:05:47.076]that could be in obviously conflict
[01:05:49.712]and violence, et cetera.
[01:05:52.014]People go.
[01:05:53.316]And so it's not as
[01:05:56.352]typically those outcomes,
[01:05:57.954]at least the initial outflows
[01:05:59.956]are not are gender balanced.
[01:06:02.425]But that's that's very often IDPs.
[01:06:05.294]Well, you know, IDPs. So, yeah.
[01:06:07.129]So, yeah, so IDPs. So
[01:06:09.565]there are refugees, refugees
[01:06:11.367]or anyone who says I'm a refugee.
[01:06:16.572]These days that word is
[01:06:18.341]used kind of broadly
[01:06:20.810]to capture all kinds of people.
[01:06:23.946]But technically, the UNHCR
[01:06:26.716]is the United Nations High
[01:06:28.184]Commissioner for Refugees
[01:06:29.885]is the the entity,
[01:06:31.721]the world global entity that is allowed
[01:06:34.857]to, to vet someone for refugee status
[01:06:38.427]and give them that title.
[01:06:41.697]And that then makes you eligible
[01:06:43.866]for resettlement in the US.
[01:06:45.534]It makes you eligible for other things.
[01:06:49.038]So there are people
[01:06:50.172]who are forced to leave or refugees.
[01:06:52.041]Other people who are forced to leave
[01:06:53.709]are internally displaced
[01:06:55.478]persons, the IDPs.
[01:06:57.980]So
[01:06:59.849]I'm looking at the students like normal.
[01:07:01.784]So, you know, Hurricane
[01:07:03.686]Katrina happened in 2005.
[01:07:06.522]And in the United States,
[01:07:08.090]there were thousands of IDPs.
[01:07:10.559]All of a sudden as a result of that storm
[01:07:13.562]and many internally displaced,
[01:07:15.765]there were people who would
[01:07:17.433]would've never left
[01:07:19.135]their homes had it
[01:07:20.269]not been for that hurricane.
[01:07:23.005]They were forced out.
[01:07:25.875]So and
[01:07:26.509]IDPs in Iraq, for example, has been
[01:07:30.679]since we initiated the war in Iraq,
[01:07:34.850]you know, there for the last 20 years,
[01:07:37.119]although we're no longer there
[01:07:38.587]in that capacity.
[01:07:39.955]But still,
[01:07:40.389]there's been a lot of
[01:07:41.257]internal displacement there in Colombia
[01:07:45.661]back in the 70s and 80s.
[01:07:48.597]There's been a lot of
[01:07:49.565]internal displacement.
[01:07:50.499]So you can go around the world.
[01:07:51.734]You can, you know.
[01:07:55.504]So with respect to the gender
[01:07:57.273]composition, again,
[01:07:59.241]typically it's a more balanced
[01:08:04.113]population of people who are on the move
[01:08:07.983]because again, typically
[01:08:09.685]people get displaced
[01:08:11.120]from something sudden
[01:08:12.588]and something threatening
[01:08:14.190]that that forces everybody out.
[01:08:17.393]Now, the question is,
[01:08:18.127]what's the gender balance
[01:08:19.495]of forced migrants
[01:08:20.996]after they arrive in a stable place?
[01:08:24.967]And that gender balance
[01:08:25.968]probably shifts somewhat.
[01:08:27.269]And then, for example,
[01:08:28.471]in the Syrian case,
[01:08:29.638]when many Syrians
[01:08:31.307]were internally displaced
[01:08:33.209]and then crossed over into Jordan
[01:08:35.878]and neighboring countries, and then
[01:08:40.082]some went to Europe.
[01:08:41.617]Right, to seek asylum.
[01:08:43.886]The asylum seekers in
[01:08:45.488]Europe were heavily male.
[01:08:47.890]And that was partly because
[01:08:50.693]many, you know, families
[01:08:53.028]who had moved the women,
[01:08:54.897]the children stayed in
[01:08:56.499]various places in the region.
[01:08:58.934]And one family member,
[01:09:00.503]typically male, may not be the father,
[01:09:03.005]may be the brother or whatever,
[01:09:04.874]tried to get to Europe to
[01:09:06.642]then eventually , you know, reunify,
[01:09:09.678]assuming they get asylum. Right?
[01:09:11.280]To reunify and bring their families over.
[01:09:13.983]So the gender composition story
[01:09:16.585]gets more complicated, certainly
[01:09:19.588]with different types of people
[01:09:21.624]who are on the move.
[01:09:23.792]I'll say one more point,
[01:09:24.960]which is, you know, we used to, meaning
[01:09:27.763]we were where I was
[01:09:29.765]when I first got my Ph.D.
[01:09:31.834]we used to be
[01:09:34.336]clearer, much clearer about
[01:09:36.772]who is a migrant and who is a refugee
[01:09:40.576]and who was an IDP.
[01:09:42.178]Right.
[01:09:42.444]The refugees and IDPs,
[01:09:43.579]these were people
[01:09:44.547]who were forced to leave their home.
[01:09:46.382]The migrant was
[01:09:49.285]voluntary, you know, wanted
[01:09:50.753]to move to improve their economic
[01:09:55.357]profiles or economic opportunities.
[01:09:59.562]But that dichotomy,
[01:10:00.963]although it still exists,
[01:10:02.698]it exists actually
[01:10:04.266]in the organizations
[01:10:05.868]that work in this space.
[01:10:07.903]And the scholarship,
[01:10:09.572]that dichotomy really
[01:10:10.773]no longer works because
[01:10:12.641]even if you were vetted
[01:10:13.609]for refugee status or asylum in the U.S.,
[01:10:17.713]you think about all the people
[01:10:18.881]at the border right
[01:10:19.648]now, especially the kids.
[01:10:22.484]If you don't get asylum,
[01:10:24.286]which is the same protection
[01:10:25.654]that a refugee gets
[01:10:26.922]or you're not a refugee,
[01:10:28.490]you could still have
[01:10:31.327]a very real fear of persecution
[01:10:35.464]if you were returned home.
[01:10:36.999]It just means you don't meet the criteria
[01:10:40.369]that either the U.S.
[01:10:41.604]government has set up
[01:10:42.805]for asylum seekers to apply for
[01:10:46.075]or the UNHCR has for, for
[01:10:50.145]refugee status.
[01:10:51.480]The criteria are very specific
[01:10:53.616]and not something
[01:10:56.085]like generalized violence,
[01:10:57.853]which you will hear from a lot of people
[01:10:59.688]who are approaching the
[01:11:00.556]US border right now. 'I was afraid.
[01:11:02.958]I mean, I was afraid to live in my town
[01:11:05.194]because I know that the gangs are there
[01:11:07.896]and they are, you
[01:11:08.797]know, approaching people.
[01:11:10.132]And these are my kids.
[01:11:11.600]And I just had to come to the border.'
[01:11:14.203]That generalized
[01:11:15.771]violence, fear, that fear
[01:11:18.674]of generalized violence in your home
[01:11:21.343]town, that's not going to get
[01:11:22.544]you asylum in the U.S.
[01:11:24.046]You have to have some specific threat
[01:11:26.315]to you and your family.
[01:11:27.549]You have to be able to document it.
[01:11:30.019]So that dichotomy no longer works for me.
[01:11:34.223]And but we haven't figured out exactly
[01:11:37.693]what can replace it. Yes.
[01:11:39.962]Did you want to make one more comment?
[01:11:41.597]Well, I think it's
[01:11:43.165]what I've seen in the legal scholarship
[01:11:44.900]is that because especially
[01:11:46.468]the United Nations
[01:11:48.170]standards for claiming
[01:11:49.571]refugee status,
[01:11:50.439]which means you have to experience
[01:11:51.907]or fear political
[01:11:52.841]persecution, for example,
[01:11:54.209]if you come from a country where
[01:11:56.245]women are not allowed
[01:11:57.179]to be out in public, by definition, women
[01:11:59.615]won't meet the criteria
[01:12:01.283]for refugee status
[01:12:02.484]because they are not to have
[01:12:03.452]a public persona.
[01:12:04.720]So if you're from Afghanistan,
[01:12:06.088]but your perfect, -perfect example
[01:12:08.557]-example from this week's news.
[01:12:10.159]Right.
[01:12:11.060]If women have no public role
[01:12:12.761]and no public identity
[01:12:14.163]and can't be elected
[01:12:15.631]into public office or whatnot,
[01:12:17.800]then they cannot be a public pers-
[01:12:19.101]or fear of political persecution.
[01:12:20.569]Therefore, they cannot be refugees.
[01:12:22.738]And they want to be dependents.
[01:12:24.239]They have dependent status
[01:12:26.975]depending on the man
[01:12:28.210]claiming that refugee status.
[01:12:30.379]Right.
[01:12:30.546]And I have to say, the Afghan situation
[01:12:33.215]and the evacuees really pose a lot of
[01:12:37.820]interesting questions,
[01:12:40.189]especially to the United States,
[01:12:41.623]but to the world
[01:12:42.591]about refugees and asylum seekers.
[01:12:46.729]And we meaning, you know,
[01:12:49.098]I'm not in government,
[01:12:50.199]but I'm inside the Beltway.
[01:12:51.900]And, you know,
[01:12:52.768]we all, a lot of us
[01:12:54.470]who work in this space share information.
[01:12:57.239]You know, the experts
[01:12:58.640]don't really know
[01:12:59.641]exactly what's going on?
[01:13:03.078]Except that the US was
[01:13:04.680]successful in evacuating,
[01:13:06.682]you know, between 110 and 120000 people,
[01:13:11.086]many of them are Afghan born and,
[01:13:13.956]but I just heard the other day
[01:13:18.227]that
[01:13:20.329]unaccompanied children, we know the story
[01:13:23.031]about unaccompanied children
[01:13:24.233]coming up to the border
[01:13:27.069]and with with kids
[01:13:29.171]who are unaccompanied
[01:13:32.408]and they've come to the border
[01:13:34.543]if they know someone
[01:13:36.078]that they crossed the border with,
[01:13:37.579]but it's not their parent
[01:13:39.181]or not their legal guardian,
[01:13:41.049]they are separated from
[01:13:42.818]that adult and then,
[01:13:45.487]you know, put into a process.
[01:13:47.289]But apparently last week,
[01:13:48.991]the US government
[01:13:49.858]decided that for Afghan
[01:13:52.394]unaccompanied children
[01:13:54.396]that they can stay with the adult
[01:13:57.266]that they came in with.
[01:13:58.600]And know,
[01:13:59.568]even as the adult is not the parent.
[01:14:02.037]So
[01:14:03.939]I'm writing a book
[01:14:04.640]about unaccompanied kids
[01:14:05.707]at the border right now and how the U.S.
[01:14:07.709]is managing,
[01:14:10.579]treating well or not?
[01:14:13.782]Oh, you know what that system looks like,
[01:14:17.085]what it looked like in the past
[01:14:19.021]and what needs to change.
[01:14:20.856]So in some ways,
[01:14:22.591]the Afghan situation
[01:14:23.692]is a real opportunity
[01:14:25.594]for many people to realize
[01:14:28.330]that the Department of State and other
[01:14:31.567]areas of the federal government
[01:14:33.202]can actually do things that are different
[01:14:36.004]and maybe that will seep into
[01:14:40.809]others.
[01:14:41.410]I don't know.
[01:14:42.044]There's a number of other dynamics
[01:14:44.513]going on for people
[01:14:45.447]coming at the border, so.
[01:14:47.850]But that's what I would love to see,
[01:14:49.218]is I'd love to see that kind
[01:14:50.652]of humanitarian view of children.
[01:14:55.557]Not only the Afghan children.
[01:15:01.997]Yes.
[01:15:03.098]I was curious about
[01:15:05.367]the very beginning,
[01:15:06.101]going back to The New York Times article.
[01:15:08.937]So a lot of the stories
[01:15:09.972]that you're telling in
[01:15:10.739]this presentation
[01:15:11.640]is about changes
[01:15:13.208]in statistics, changes in data.
[01:15:16.612]It's sort of cultural shifts
[01:15:18.881]and how you explore that.
[01:15:20.015]So why would it be news?
[01:15:22.284]Why do we continue to talk
[01:15:23.519]about the privatization of migration
[01:15:25.587]and why does that matter to us?
[01:15:27.055]Maybe just specifically in a U.S.
[01:15:28.957]context. -Right.
[01:15:30.692]So we didn't have data
[01:15:34.663]that would allow us
[01:15:35.597]to really explore
[01:15:37.065]the cultural reasons why.
[01:15:39.501]Right. Sorry.
[01:15:43.171]But
[01:15:45.173]yeah, I mean, I think that we could
[01:15:47.476]certainly imagine
[01:15:48.610]and we talk about in the book
[01:15:50.078]what some of the cultural the low hanging
[01:15:54.349]cultural reasons that we know why.
[01:15:56.652]Right. We just like
[01:15:59.288]many other groups who are either
[01:16:01.957]not majority groups or
[01:16:05.160]are discriminated against
[01:16:07.195]or are you know,
[01:16:08.764]there are many people in the world
[01:16:11.033]who are not seen based on their gender,
[01:16:13.869]based on their ethnicity,
[01:16:15.771]based on their race.
[01:16:17.739]And
[01:16:19.308]I mean, obviously, if you were a woman
[01:16:21.443]migrant coming in in 1965,
[01:16:23.545]you would be seen
[01:16:24.846]but you're not seen in the data
[01:16:27.115]or countries don't report,
[01:16:29.117]you know, breakdowns
[01:16:30.085]by gender because they don't see you
[01:16:32.387]as in the case of, you know, Afghan
[01:16:37.159]Afghans
[01:16:39.595]being out on the street right there.
[01:16:41.096]So there are these gender rules
[01:16:44.099]that exist around the world.
[01:16:45.500]That's why one of my first points
[01:16:47.336]is that we have to remember
[01:16:48.837]that women and men
[01:16:51.273]live in very gendered social spaces
[01:16:55.978]that determine what we you know,
[01:16:59.781]whatever our gender is, what we can do
[01:17:03.418]and what and how.
[01:17:05.687]So, yeah, we talk about that in the book.
[01:17:08.023]We weren't able to get data, qualitative
[01:17:11.360]or quantitative,
[01:17:12.194]really to kind of hone in.
[01:17:14.329]But it's certainly part
[01:17:15.797]of this gender context in and
[01:17:19.768]you know, and, you know,
[01:17:20.902]some people have said to me, well,
[01:17:22.704]you would have thought
[01:17:23.739]that they could have
[01:17:24.940]at least produced the numbers,
[01:17:27.509]basically one, two numbers.
[01:17:29.678]Right.
[01:17:30.078]How many migrants in
[01:17:31.580]a country who are men,
[01:17:32.881]how many migrants
[01:17:34.182]in a country who are women
[01:17:36.018]and that for decades in the U.S.
[01:17:38.587]and for some countries
[01:17:39.588]to this day remains possible.
[01:17:42.524]Yeah, right.
[01:17:43.458]If that's not culturally constructed
[01:17:45.794]or norma- normatively constructed,
[01:17:48.430]then I don't know what is.
[01:17:50.399]So, yeah, I we certainly
[01:17:53.568]I think, situate this.
[01:17:56.071]These findings and our sort of approach
[01:17:58.707]in those gendered spaces
[01:18:00.876]in gender, culturally speaking.
[01:18:03.712]Yeah.
[01:18:04.680]You could say that
[01:18:05.614]this is this kind of goes beyond
[01:18:08.884]just the immigrants.
[01:18:09.885]I just watched Wind River about,
[01:18:13.622]and they brought up
[01:18:14.623]an interesting statistic that
[01:18:17.726]they track all sorts of statistics,
[01:18:20.896]but that those statistic
[01:18:22.531]for missing native
[01:18:23.598]women was not recorded.
[01:18:26.068]And so, I mean, so this goes along.
[01:18:31.973]Yeah, we're in the 21st century,
[01:18:34.109]and we're certainly not acting
[01:18:36.912]in ways that recognizes everyone
[01:18:39.314]we saw that last year with,
[01:18:40.816]you know, Black Lives Matter.
[01:18:42.451]And we see it in in so many
[01:18:45.921]parts of the world
[01:18:47.089]for so many different parts
[01:18:48.690]of the different
[01:18:51.059]segments of the population.
[01:18:53.628]And, you know, it will take a long time
[01:18:58.033]before everyone is equally seen.
[01:19:01.303]However we define seen, I
[01:19:05.073]and
[01:19:06.708]that's, you know, the what can we do,
[01:19:09.644]we can, if you're a scholar like me,
[01:19:12.447]I'm not an advocate. Right.
[01:19:14.182]So that's not my job.
[01:19:15.817]But if I'm a scholar, then at least I can
[01:19:19.020]I can study and write about
[01:19:23.391]people, groups, times, places
[01:19:25.627]when when people were not seen
[01:19:28.263]and how they're seen today
[01:19:29.598]and sort of try to understand that.
[01:19:30.966]Right.
[01:19:31.433]And maybe some of that feeds
[01:19:33.068]into the advocacy work,
[01:19:35.704]maybe
[01:19:37.806]I do participate
[01:19:38.740]in some of the national
[01:19:40.375]advocate's meetings,
[01:19:42.210]because they ask
[01:19:44.012]researchers to participate.
[01:19:45.747]And I feel like it's
[01:19:46.681]good to have that dialog,
[01:19:47.916]because sometimes
[01:19:49.151]we can really work together in
[01:19:50.752]in sort of interesting ways.
[01:19:53.021]So right now on the Dreamer issue and the
[01:19:57.025]the legal status that,
[01:20:00.495]you know,
[01:20:02.731]how do I describe this, the
[01:20:06.802]you know, the Congress
[01:20:08.036]has to decide on a budget before for next
[01:20:12.607]fiscal year by the end of September.
[01:20:16.878]And Congress was not willing to undertake
[01:20:20.682]legislative reform before now.
[01:20:23.318]So now the Biden administration
[01:20:24.986]is trying to get
[01:20:26.788]something added to the budget,
[01:20:28.723]the budget bill that would give
[01:20:30.625]legal status pathways to
[01:20:34.329]agricultural workers,
[01:20:35.831]other essential workers,
[01:20:38.066]TPS recipients and dreamers.
[01:20:40.902]Now, there are definitions of whatever
[01:20:44.339]very specific definitions
[01:20:45.807]for each group, but
[01:20:46.775]this is what they call a backroom deal.
[01:20:50.579]And somebody is going to come
[01:20:52.414]into the room and say,
[01:20:53.782]I will agree to what
[01:20:55.016]you want in the budget.
[01:20:55.951]If you give me this for Dreamers,
[01:20:58.019]give me this for TPS.
[01:20:59.788]This is how it's been described to me.
[01:21:03.758]We'll see in the next
[01:21:04.926]few weeks if any of that happens.
[01:21:10.165]Yeah.
[01:21:10.866]One of the questions
[01:21:12.100]I was wondering when you were talking
[01:21:13.802]about the discovery,
[01:21:14.903]that feminization
[01:21:15.971]of migration and immigration, is,
[01:21:19.908]could you give us a sense,
[01:21:22.177]as people were talking about it in the 1980s,
[01:21:24.713]like what was kind of like
[01:21:25.780]the fusion around it, like
[01:21:27.983]how are they perceiving the feminization?
[01:21:30.285]Like where they say, oh,
[01:21:31.052]my God, this is horrible.
[01:21:32.888]Or my, you know, it was the worst
[01:21:34.389]kind of this larger
[01:21:35.223]kind of subtext around and around, see
[01:21:38.293]I'm trying to say.
[01:21:39.694]Yeah, I think that you'll
[01:21:40.996]find examples of that.
[01:21:42.931]And you'll also find examples of, wow,
[01:21:45.667]you know, oh my goodness
[01:21:47.602]women are out there doing it.
[01:21:50.338]And you'll see you know,
[01:21:52.707]you'll see that in various places
[01:21:54.743]and various times.
[01:21:57.178]I don't think you see
[01:21:58.079]anything consistent.
[01:21:58.780]I, I well, I guess most often
[01:22:03.652]you see, wow, there were women,
[01:22:07.622]but again, you know, more women.
[01:22:09.291]than what, you know,
[01:22:10.025]if you start at a baseline of 10 percent,
[01:22:12.260]it goes up to 15 percent, is that a wow?
[01:22:16.765]You know,
[01:22:17.666]we have to ask those kinds of questions.
[01:22:20.302]So the presumption now
[01:22:22.137]is that an increase of
[01:22:23.204]women is a wow, I can say,
[01:22:25.407]at least in the scholarship,
[01:22:27.275]the papers that I've been asked to read
[01:22:29.311]even recently, you know,
[01:22:30.478]last 10 years, it
[01:22:31.513]still is presented as wow,
[01:22:33.181]there are all these women
[01:22:36.284]who are migrating.
[01:22:39.054]Yeah.
[01:22:39.254]So I think you'll see
[01:22:40.322]examples of such a phenomenon.
[01:22:42.590]Largely, I would say, you know,
[01:22:44.392]what you see is the presumption
[01:22:46.061]that it's mostly men.
[01:22:49.464]Yeah.
[01:22:50.198]It was something
[01:22:52.167]you said earlier, but this
[01:22:55.070]here's this narrative
[01:22:55.971]right about the increase
[01:22:57.339]in migrants around the globe
[01:22:59.107]and you see it in Europe
[01:23:00.475]and you see it even on the border
[01:23:01.943]with United States, But but.
[01:23:04.446]It's easy to vilify
[01:23:06.614]those groups of migrants
[01:23:07.182]so I think it has to be that.
[01:23:09.484]And I wonder if if this conversation
[01:23:12.087]that it says right, you already have
[01:23:14.856]that as well as with people
[01:23:16.424]men and women on a global scale.
[01:23:19.127]Does that change this narrative
[01:23:20.795]that -It's so funny that you say it...
[01:23:22.931]-is that there's a change
[01:23:23.932]that we no longer can vilify
[01:23:25.633]because it's women and children, right?
[01:23:26.935]Can you?
[01:23:27.535]Can they be rapists and criminals?
[01:23:30.739]As the former president would say. Right.
[01:23:32.774]Younger women. Does it change?
[01:23:35.143]And the social kind of mental...
[01:23:37.545]-So let me let me say,
[01:23:39.347]let me say that there's a history
[01:23:41.483]and a long history
[01:23:42.684]in the US of vilifying women migrants.
[01:23:47.555]So, because they make babies.
[01:23:49.624]They have babies and they run back home.
[01:23:54.596]So it's just interesting for me.
[01:23:56.598]But you're right.
[01:23:57.198]There are examples
[01:23:58.867]of the vilification of migrants
[01:24:00.869]when migrants are largely men...
[01:24:02.704]-In Europe, for example.
[01:24:04.506]Right now, if you look at the European
[01:24:06.141]migrant crisis, whatever.
[01:24:08.376]They're all young men
[01:24:09.344]right here in North Africa,
[01:24:11.012]parts of Africa,
[01:24:11.746]the Middle East or whatever.
[01:24:12.814]That's the crisis,
[01:24:13.782]because it tends to be men.
[01:24:15.283]Nobody wants to provide them with asylum,
[01:24:17.952]even though you're saying basically
[01:24:19.454]most of them are the first ones
[01:24:21.356]coming out
[01:24:22.590]right out of the Syrian conflict
[01:24:23.725]and trying to make it. -Right.
[01:24:26.127]I mean, I think that would be
[01:24:27.662]an interesting study
[01:24:28.897]to try to get data
[01:24:31.633]qualitative or quantitative.
[01:24:33.501]But thinking about
[01:24:34.936]who is approaching the borders
[01:24:37.205]or who are those people. -Right? -Right.
[01:24:39.874]Those people coming in
[01:24:42.877]and seeking to come in.
[01:24:46.848]What's their gender composition?
[01:24:48.483]And how are-
[01:24:49.551]What's the narrative around them?
[01:24:51.186]And how much variation around the world
[01:24:53.188]do we see in that narrative?
[01:24:55.090]I mean, right now with the unaccompanied
[01:24:56.825]kids at the southern border,
[01:24:58.359]as I said at lunch,
[01:24:59.894]I mean, there
[01:25:00.395]there have been very few in recorded U.S.
[01:25:03.498]history.
[01:25:04.532]There haven't been this many...ever.
[01:25:08.803]So more than 100000 this
[01:25:12.407]fiscal year, which
[01:25:13.541]the fiscal year ends this month.
[01:25:16.010]So it's kind of,
[01:25:17.045]you know, almost 12 months.
[01:25:19.547]This is these are a lot of kids.
[01:25:22.584]And there's all sorts of reasons
[01:25:24.018]why the numbers are higher
[01:25:25.220]this year compared to earlier years.
[01:25:27.922]But what the reason why I started
[01:25:31.493]thinking about unaccompanied kids
[01:25:34.329]was in 2014
[01:25:35.964]when the Obama administration,
[01:25:37.332]that was sort of the first realization,
[01:25:39.400]even though, by the way,
[01:25:40.268]the numbers were going up for
[01:25:41.736]about five years before then.
[01:25:43.705]But the summer of 2014
[01:25:45.507]was when the public learned about it,
[01:25:48.109]because there were more
[01:25:50.145]unaccompanied kids
[01:25:51.412]and Obama wasn't ready,
[01:25:53.781]even though there were people
[01:25:55.183]writing about the changing
[01:25:57.085]demographic composition
[01:25:58.553]of Mexican migrants to the United States.
[01:26:01.656]But the system wasn't ready.
[01:26:03.892]And so there was a lot of,
[01:26:06.094]you know, management issues
[01:26:07.929]for children in that year.
[01:26:10.298]But since that year,
[01:26:13.368]Well, that's in that year,
[01:26:16.070]I couldn't believe
[01:26:17.138]how these kids were vilified
[01:26:20.141]in in papers, in newspapers
[01:26:22.744]like The New York Times,
[01:26:23.878]which is kind of on the left.
[01:26:25.246]It's not super lefty,
[01:26:26.614]but it's on the left, right?
[01:26:28.483]And they were vilified
[01:26:30.084]there like there were.
[01:26:33.521]I just got back off the [unintelligible]
[01:26:35.323]and I said, that's it.
[01:26:36.524]I'm going to start writing
[01:26:37.759]and thinking about the kids.
[01:26:39.928]Now, I have two projects
[01:26:42.263]where we're interviewing some
[01:26:43.831]and then we're...
[01:26:45.066]I'm learning about the system.
[01:26:47.969]So it's an interesting idea
[01:26:50.438]for some of us to think about
[01:26:52.607]who's vilified at what time
[01:26:55.543]and what the gender composition is.
[01:27:04.352][applause]

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2021 WGS Annual Lecture

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