NCLUDE 4.16.21 Neurodiversity Session 1
Dr. Lisa Pennisi (pen-knee-see) is an Associate Professor of Practice in the School of Natural Resources at UNL. Lisa is a first-generation American who earned her Bachelor's in Psychology, Master's in Environmental Science, and a doctorate in Parks, Recreation, and Tourism. Lisa's teaching focuses on science communication, environmental education, specifically the zoo, and aquarium field. Lisa's extension focus is science communication, behavior change, and nonformal STEM education with outreach to our local Title One after-school programs. Lisa is an advocate for neurodiversity, especially autism, as well as other invisible differences. In this NCLUDE session, Dr. Pennisi will discuss Neurodiversity
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[00:00:43.360]Hello, everyone, welcome to our NCLUDE gathering today.
[00:00:47.180]We'll just wait for a couple of more minutes
[00:00:49.240]as everyone joins us.
[00:01:56.210]Once again, a big warm welcome to everyone.
[00:02:02.040]For those of you joining us for the first time,
[00:02:04.100]I am Jessie Peter, a graduate assistant
[00:02:06.850]at the Office of Diversity and Inclusion.
[00:02:09.470]Last year, Vice Chancellor Dr. Marco Barker envisioned
[00:02:12.820]creating a platform for Nebraska community
[00:02:15.960]to learn together about diversity, equity and inclusion.
[00:02:21.110]Under the leadership of Dr. Karen Kassebaum,
[00:02:24.150]Assistant Vice Chancellor
[00:02:25.380]for Inclusive Leadership and Learning,
[00:02:27.720]this vision vision became a reality.
[00:02:30.900]NCLUDE, Nebraska Community of Learners-
[00:02:33.690]Understanding Diversity through Education
[00:02:35.790]was launched on August 20th, 2020.
[00:02:38.960]The quarterly series of virtual conversations
[00:02:41.930]are intended to help students, faculty, staff,
[00:02:45.970]alum and the greater community understand
[00:02:48.580]and embrace the opportunities we have
[00:02:51.160]to create a greater sense of inclusion for all.
[00:02:54.805]NCLUDE's inaugural year culminates with this gathering.
[00:02:57.810]I for one am absolutely thrilled
[00:02:59.720]to hear from our esteemed speakers.
[00:03:02.020]We have three sessions lined up.
[00:03:04.080]You may access all the three sessions
[00:03:06.030]using the same Zoom link.
[00:03:08.140]First we have Dr. Lisa Pennisi
[00:03:10.500]talk about neurodiversity on campus.
[00:03:13.300]Session one we'll end at 4:15 PM.
[00:03:16.400]We will return after a 15 minute break.
[00:03:19.080]Second at 4:30, we have two speakers,
[00:03:22.660]Dr. Melissa Olson and Mr. Theodore Hibbeler,
[00:03:25.790]who will share some key impacts
[00:03:27.630]of Indian boarding schools on family relationships.
[00:03:31.050]This session will end at 5:15 PM.
[00:03:34.010]We have more, and we saved the best for the last.
[00:03:36.720]After a 15 minute break at 5:30 PM, Jennifer Brown,
[00:03:41.260]the author of "How to Be an Inclusive Leader",
[00:03:44.320]one of the books we discussed in our reading group,
[00:03:46.940]is joining us.
[00:03:48.790]At the end of each session,
[00:03:50.330]we will post the link to the feedback survey.
[00:03:52.870]Please take a few minutes to fill.
[00:03:54.760]This will inform future NCLUDE events.
[00:04:02.630]Today, all participants will be muted for the presentations.
[00:04:06.480]If you have questions related to the information presented
[00:04:10.010]or you are facing technical difficulties,
[00:04:12.430]let us know via the Q&A feature.
[00:04:15.250]Closed captioning is available.
[00:04:17.360]All three sessions will be recorded
[00:04:19.260]and made available on ODI website.
[00:04:22.520]I cannot wait to get started.
[00:04:24.530]So I welcome Dr. Nkenge Friday,
[00:04:26.560]Assistant Vice Chancellor for Strategic Initiatives
[00:04:29.040]in the Office of Diversity and Inclusion
[00:04:31.380]to introduce our first speaker.
[00:04:36.130]Good afternoon, everyone.
[00:04:38.100]Thank you all so much for joining us today.
[00:04:40.700]As Jessie Peter said, I am Nkenge Friday,
[00:04:42.770]Assistant Vice Chancellor for Strategic Initiatives
[00:04:45.250]here in the Office of Diversity and Inclusion.
[00:04:47.790]I would like to introduce Dr. Lisa Pennisi.
[00:04:50.530]She's an associate professor of practice
[00:04:52.310]in the School of Natural Resources at UNL.
[00:04:55.134]Lisa is a first generation American
[00:04:56.720]who earned her bachelor's in Psychology,
[00:04:59.170]master's in Environmental Science,
[00:05:01.490]and doctorate in Parks, Recreation, and Tourism.
[00:05:05.030]Lisa's teaching focus is on science communication,
[00:05:07.820]environmental education, specifically the zoo
[00:05:10.380]and aquarium field.
[00:05:12.110]And Lisa's Extension focus is science communication,
[00:05:14.660]behavior change, and non-formal STEM education with outreach
[00:05:18.520]to our local Title I afterschool programs.
[00:05:21.990]Lisa's an advocate for neurodiversity, especially autism,
[00:05:25.430]as well as other invisible differences.
[00:05:27.870]Of course, Dr. Pennisi is joined by some of her colleagues,
[00:05:30.540]Brooke Talbott and John Carroll.
[00:05:32.970]And I'll now hand it over to Dr. Pennisi.
[00:05:41.230]Hi, everyone, I want to thank Dr. Friday
[00:05:45.040]and Jessie soon-to-be-Dr. Peters for introducing me
[00:05:49.870]and for graciously inviting us to give this talk.
[00:05:53.300]I think it speaks so highly of them
[00:05:55.940]that they decided to have a talk on neurodiversity
[00:06:00.480]to include in our NCLUDE sessions at UNL.
[00:06:05.110]And I also want to thank them for graciously helping me
[00:06:08.650]through this in getting my presentation ready.
[00:06:13.500]So I also want to express my thanks
[00:06:17.660]to my two colleagues that are here to join me,
[00:06:19.770]my boss, John Carroll, who's the director
[00:06:21.860]of the School of Natural Resources,
[00:06:23.780]and Brooke Talbott, who's a master's student in our school
[00:06:26.940]as well as a staff member
[00:06:28.330]for the Platte Time River Basin project.
[00:06:33.400]So I should try to get started.
[00:06:43.710]Okay, so we're gonna talk about neurodiversity.
[00:06:46.830]If I go fast or anything, or you have any questions,
[00:06:50.210]please drop them in the chat
[00:06:51.650]and people will monitor those for us.
[00:06:55.650]So what is neurodiversity?
[00:06:58.520]Neurodiversity is a neurological,
[00:07:01.550]neurodevelopmental difference that people are born with.
[00:07:05.300]It develops genetically,
[00:07:07.190]so if you have parents that are neurodiverse,
[00:07:10.080]you're likely to be neurodiverse
[00:07:11.840]or they're likely to have neurodiverse children.
[00:07:14.190]And so it's a difference in the brain structure,
[00:07:17.440]the brain neurochemicals,
[00:07:20.370]and possibly the pathways in the brain.
[00:07:23.180]And so it manifests as some conditions
[00:07:25.840]like autism spectrum disorder,
[00:07:28.440]attention deficit disorder, epilepsy,
[00:07:31.430]Tourette's, dyslexia, and dyscalculia and others.
[00:07:37.240]But we're gonna focus on autism and ADHD
[00:07:40.540]because those are really common.
[00:07:43.590]So first thing I wanna do is ask everyone,
[00:07:46.440]are you neurodiverse or do you know someone that is?
[00:07:49.660]Or maybe you have a loved one that's neurodiverse.
[00:08:07.580]It says "I can't vote."
[00:08:11.610]I was gonna say, where's the Jeopardy music (laughs)?
[00:08:14.730]So cool, so there are 42% of people here
[00:08:18.350]who know someone that's neurodiverse,
[00:08:20.740]and 21% are themselves.
[00:08:22.840]So that is really exciting to me, thanks.
[00:08:27.430]And so we can see
[00:08:30.050]that we know people or that we are neurodiverse ourselves.
[00:08:33.090]And we should care at UNL because only 36% of people
[00:08:37.120]that are neurodiverse end up going to college.
[00:08:41.760]Of those college students,
[00:08:42.920]there's about 200,000 college students in the U.S.,
[00:08:46.670]1 to 3% are on the autism spectrum.
[00:08:50.370]About 11% of the students overall
[00:08:54.760]say they have a disability
[00:08:56.370]but they may not say, they may not report one of these.
[00:08:59.760]And only 16% of these students,
[00:09:02.650]these neurodiverse students end up graduating.
[00:09:05.200]So they have a really low completion rate.
[00:09:07.550]And so we need to do something about this.
[00:09:10.250]We also have neurodiverse staff and faculty,
[00:09:13.490]and there's a lot of intersectionality.
[00:09:15.470]There's a lot of neurodiverse people
[00:09:18.070]who are LGBTQA identities
[00:09:20.950]and who have mental health issues.
[00:09:23.620]A lot of times there's a lot of anxiety and depression
[00:09:26.080]from dealing with some of the issues that come with this.
[00:09:34.300]I just wanna quickly say that we've traditionally focused
[00:09:37.940]on this medical model of disability
[00:09:40.300]where we view these differences
[00:09:42.610]as disabilities, as disorders, as dysfunctions.
[00:09:47.410]And we wanna cure them and fix them.
[00:09:49.770]Like we used to think that way with LGBTQ people,
[00:09:54.040]LGBTQA people, right?
[00:09:56.130]And so we wanna move past that.
[00:09:58.570]And we're doing that with wheelchair access.
[00:10:01.700]We're making curb cuts and those help everyone.
[00:10:04.180]There's ramps to get into buildings,
[00:10:05.820]elevators to get up, lower light switches,
[00:10:08.550]accommodations on buses,
[00:10:10.510]and we're moving towards rights-based
[00:10:12.630]to end any kind of oppression
[00:10:14.540]so that people can live their lives to the fullest,
[00:10:17.570]and even be more affirmative to focus on strengths
[00:10:21.280]and the gifts that people can bring and enhance society.
[00:10:25.810]So we're shifting to this hopefully neurodiversity paradigm
[00:10:30.180]where we recognize that people are diverse.
[00:10:33.570]Just like there's biodiversity,
[00:10:36.050]there's diversity among humans, and variation is beautiful
[00:10:39.810]and wonderful and benefits us all
[00:10:43.060]by giving us wonderful cultural opportunities,
[00:10:46.170]artistic opportunities, advancing science
[00:10:49.894]and just really enriching our lives.
[00:10:52.800]So we want to discourage any labeling
[00:10:55.510]and move to a new paradigm.
[00:10:58.460]So the first thing I wanna talk about is ADHD.
[00:11:02.793]So ADHD, which you've probably heard
[00:11:05.820]of but may not quite understand
[00:11:08.160]is about regulating attention.
[00:11:10.480]That's the big thing.
[00:11:11.380]So if we think of attention as a spectrum,
[00:11:15.350]from distracted to regulated for neurotypical people,
[00:11:19.490]which is what neurodiverse people call regular people,
[00:11:22.730]right, neurotypical people, to fixated.
[00:11:26.390]And if you're ADHD, you can have distracted attention
[00:11:30.360]or you can have fixated even attention.
[00:11:33.020]Typically, if you're autistic,
[00:11:34.500]you're gonna be more on the fixated side,
[00:11:37.810]but you definitely have an issue
[00:11:39.360]with regulating your attention.
[00:11:42.580]People think ADHD is, oh, there's a squirrel, right?
[00:11:46.270]Or, oh, I'm just this daydreamer,
[00:11:48.210]not paying attention and lazy,
[00:11:50.540]but that isn't really what it is at all.
[00:11:53.200]It's actually some brain differences
[00:11:57.285]and mainly some neurochemical differences.
[00:12:00.740]So dopamine may be low.
[00:12:02.770]And so that attention is not regulated.
[00:12:05.770]It's not stimulated.
[00:12:07.380]And so stimulant medications will help
[00:12:10.630]bring up that attention level and help regulate it.
[00:12:15.460]But being ADHD can mean
[00:12:18.070]that you have a lot of misunderstandings and social issues
[00:12:21.070]and be labeled as lazy and things like that.
[00:12:23.800]So now I wanna ask you,
[00:12:27.670]how do you think people with ADHD
[00:12:29.590]can regulate their attention?
[00:13:00.130]Okay, so look at all these people that are right.
[00:13:03.150]So medication works, yes.
[00:13:05.370]Exercise can work
[00:13:06.570]'cause it can bring up those neurotransmitters.
[00:13:09.020]And actually doing two things at once helps
[00:13:12.810]because it provides that stimulation to help keep focused.
[00:13:16.820]So if I fidget,
[00:13:19.550]it could help keep my attention.
[00:13:22.500]So it's not a distractor or not paying attention.
[00:13:25.860]So another key feature of ADHD
[00:13:27.860]and this applies to autism is executive functioning issues.
[00:13:32.900]And you may or may not have heard of executive functioning,
[00:13:35.570]but it applies to all of us really.
[00:13:38.050]And so there's things
[00:13:39.240]with project initiation, so procrastination.
[00:13:43.310]Working memory, so if you've ever like gone to another room
[00:13:47.270]to get something and then you didn't remember
[00:13:49.110]what it was you went to do,
[00:13:50.340]or you lost your keys or you procrastinated, or maybe...
[00:13:54.940]but these things, these planning and organizing
[00:13:58.080]and impulse control things
[00:13:59.850]can really make a big impact on the life of somebody
[00:14:04.250]and the functioning of somebody with ADHD.
[00:14:07.090]So another thing would be time.
[00:14:09.420]And so the sense of time could be a little off.
[00:14:12.730]And so Brooke actually has some time
[00:14:17.010]sort of ways she functions with time.
[00:14:19.730]So do you wanna say that real quick?
[00:14:22.090]Yeah, so I have ADHD,
[00:14:25.260]and I scored in the 97th percentile.
[00:14:28.780]So I joke that that's the highest score
[00:14:30.610]I've ever gotten on a test, right?
[00:14:33.670]But I wanted to add here that I measure time
[00:14:37.380]in the length of like movies.
[00:14:39.970]So if I really need to make sure I'm on time to something,
[00:14:43.450]I will play "The Lion King"
[00:14:45.470]because I know that that's 90 minutes
[00:14:47.390]and I know how long that movie feels.
[00:14:50.230]So I can kind of feel the passage of time
[00:14:52.920]and I don't always have to be checking the clock.
[00:14:57.190]I'll give it back to you, Lisa.
[00:14:59.310]Okay, so ADHD people like the medical model
[00:15:03.620]is gonna focus on those weaknesses
[00:15:05.360]in those executive functioning skills, right,
[00:15:07.260]but they have a lot of strengths.
[00:15:09.420]So they're creative,
[00:15:10.930]creative problem solvers, very intelligent.
[00:15:14.160]Neurodiversity has nothing to do
[00:15:16.190]with your cognitive capability or your IQ,
[00:15:19.940]energetic, hardworking, not at all lazy
[00:15:22.710]but a lot of strengths to bring to the table and to teams.
[00:15:26.940]And if you are ADHD,
[00:15:29.320]so are a lot of other great people,
[00:15:32.080]athletes, politicians, astronauts, scientists.
[00:15:36.180]So psychologists and specialists have guessed
[00:15:39.370]that some people from the past or current people
[00:15:41.610]that may not say they are may be ADHD,
[00:15:45.290]like Alexander Graham Bell or Edison.
[00:15:49.170]So if you're neurodiverse, you would have differences
[00:15:53.610]along this spectrum of functioning or aspects of your life.
[00:15:58.610]And so if you're ADHD,
[00:15:59.790]you're gonna have attention regulation issues.
[00:16:02.460]You may have some of these other issues
[00:16:04.210]like some emotional issues.
[00:16:05.660]Like you could get frustrated easier,
[00:16:07.550]have rejection sensitive dysphoria,
[00:16:10.860]or some memory differences.
[00:16:13.140]But diagnostically it's attention regulation.
[00:16:16.490]If you're dyslexic,
[00:16:17.730]you're gonna have problems with written language, right?
[00:16:20.310]And there's things that you can do to help with that.
[00:16:22.710]But if you're autistic, you could have problems
[00:16:25.270]with many of these, or differences, I should say,
[00:16:28.100]with many of these.
[00:16:28.933]Some of these things are gonna be enhanced
[00:16:31.010]like visual memory perhaps,
[00:16:34.180]or pattern recognition.
[00:16:37.610]And some will not be.
[00:16:38.870]Even in processing speed, pattern recognition can be fast,
[00:16:43.678]but sound processing could be a delay.
[00:16:49.436]So 1 to 3%, about 3.5 million Americans are autistic.
[00:16:55.844]60 to 80% of autistics are unemployed.
[00:16:59.300]So this is a really big thing.
[00:17:02.010]They're nine times more likely to commit suicide
[00:17:05.090]than the regular population,
[00:17:07.300]and their life expectancy is much lower
[00:17:10.090]not just because of suicide,
[00:17:11.950]but because of not being able to communicate well
[00:17:14.150]to medical professionals,
[00:17:15.800]to having problems with the law,
[00:17:18.340]especially if there's some intersectionality
[00:17:20.290]like you're black and autistic, right?
[00:17:26.250]Prevalence of autism, so we've seen it rise.
[00:17:29.340]And so people have said things like
[00:17:30.977]"Oh, there's this autism epidemic," but there's not.
[00:17:34.990]What there is is that we didn't know what it was
[00:17:37.470]until about World War II
[00:17:41.868]when Hans Asperger and Leo Kanner were discovering it
[00:17:46.140]in Austria and in the U.S. at that time.
[00:17:48.880]And they thought only boys had it.
[00:17:50.990]So that's one reason.
[00:17:52.830]And another reason is we're understanding it more.
[00:17:55.420]And so autism presents completely differently
[00:17:58.310]in women than it does in boys.
[00:18:00.370]And so a lot of young girls went undiagnosed,
[00:18:03.360]and they may have gone undiagnosed well into adulthood
[00:18:06.940]but always felt like they were from the wrong planet,
[00:18:09.880]or there was something weird,
[00:18:11.120]or they just didn't fit in, or something like that.
[00:18:15.240]And actually, you may wonder why I'm giving this talk
[00:18:19.660]because I am...
[00:18:23.813]I'm in Natural Resources, right?
[00:18:25.780]But I found out as an adult that I'm both autistic and ADHD.
[00:18:30.310]So I am neurodiverse and it explained a lot.
[00:18:32.890]And it helps a lot of people
[00:18:34.080]because then they can say,
[00:18:35.247]"Hey, I'm not a failed regular person.
[00:18:39.737]"I'm a very successful autistic person."
[00:18:44.780]So what is autism or ASD?
[00:18:48.860]So it's a brain difference again,
[00:18:50.330]but it's also because it's very neurological,
[00:18:52.900]a nervous system and even skin
[00:18:54.980]'cause there's lots of nerves there.
[00:18:56.610]And so an example would be your amygdala would be smaller.
[00:19:00.030]And that's where a lot of emotional things are very based.
[00:19:05.900]Or your frontal lobe is different
[00:19:07.610]or your prefrontal cortex is thicker.
[00:19:10.230]And so because that amygdala is smaller,
[00:19:13.710]autistic people are more likely to experience
[00:19:16.280]or get trauma from experiences.
[00:19:18.390]So they may be more likely to be bullied
[00:19:20.330]and ostracized and have other issues.
[00:19:23.030]And then they're more likely to be traumatized.
[00:19:25.440]And I've been told that there are no autistic adults
[00:19:28.430]that professionals have talked to that don't have trauma.
[00:19:33.190]So that's an important aspect.
[00:19:35.600]So everybody calls autism a spectrum.
[00:19:38.340]And some people think that it's a spectrum
[00:19:40.380]because you go from severe autism
[00:19:43.210]to high functioning autism.
[00:19:45.090]But autistics would prefer
[00:19:46.890]you not use these functional labels
[00:19:49.180]because they're very misleading.
[00:19:50.960]And they're based on how you experience someone's autism
[00:19:54.360]versus how they experience.
[00:19:56.370]So someone who's nonverbal may be called severe
[00:20:00.540]because they can't speak.
[00:20:02.030]But if given a device to help them communicate,
[00:20:05.280]you'll find out that they're very intelligent
[00:20:07.480]and very creative,
[00:20:08.850]and they may be poets and they just need that assistance.
[00:20:13.400]Someone who's high functioning
[00:20:15.210]appears more like a normal person, right?
[00:20:20.340]But you don't know that they could have more sensory issues
[00:20:24.200]or more other issues in functioning in their life
[00:20:27.000]than someone who you think is severely autistic.
[00:20:33.493]I actually have a question if you don't mind.
[00:20:35.290]Cool, I do not mind.
[00:20:37.110]The question we have is, what are some ways
[00:20:39.300]that neurotypical people on campus
[00:20:41.150]can be more understanding, compassionate, helpful
[00:20:44.620]especially if we do not know another person's situation?
[00:20:47.520]Yeah, so we are going to get to that.
[00:20:49.970]Do you think we should wait,
[00:20:52.740]Brooke, yes, okay.
[00:20:55.890]Yeah, we're gonna get to that more towards the end.
[00:20:58.210]So I think keep going.
[00:20:59.300]Yeah, if we don't remind us, but we plan to.
[00:21:02.930]So again, these autistic neurodiversity issues
[00:21:08.103]are all of these things.
[00:21:09.040]And like I said, you could be high and low
[00:21:10.730]on each of these in different ways.
[00:21:12.230]Like I will ask people what they said
[00:21:15.990]and then three seconds later, I know what they said.
[00:21:19.920]Like I used to think I had a hearing problem,
[00:21:22.150]but I have a processing delay.
[00:21:25.060]And so three seconds later, my brain will code
[00:21:29.020]what those words were or decipher.
[00:21:32.770]So it can manifest as social behavior.
[00:21:35.450]So autistics are gonna look weird.
[00:21:37.500]They're gonna think a little different.
[00:21:39.040]They're not gonna understand things
[00:21:40.630]'cause I can't infer any social things, right?
[00:21:45.800]And focus is gonna be different.
[00:21:47.430]So there's repetitive behaviors,
[00:21:50.270]what are called stimming.
[00:21:52.000]So you'll see people who rock, right,
[00:21:54.570]or sway or jiggle their leg.
[00:21:57.000]I used to be a big time leg jiggler,
[00:21:59.040]or press or Temple Grandin gets in a squeeze thing.
[00:22:02.560]And these are things to help deal with overwhelm
[00:22:05.580]and to self-soothe.
[00:22:07.490]And so like a dog might do it with licking their hand too.
[00:22:10.710]So it's just a self-soothing kind of thing.
[00:22:14.910]And so we have those six things
[00:22:19.370]that we just showed, right,
[00:22:21.290]but it manifests as thinking, for example,
[00:22:24.050]our body senses.
[00:22:25.300]So there's seven senses.
[00:22:26.670]And so these senses can all be a little bit different.
[00:22:31.140]But thinking, so Temple Grandin,
[00:22:33.280]she thinks in pictures and that's one way.
[00:22:35.690]So you can have, I have video memory,
[00:22:37.930]I have file picture memory.
[00:22:40.100]I have layered branch thinking
[00:22:42.100]where I can think of all these possibilities.
[00:22:44.040]Some people have spatial thinking
[00:22:46.530]or feeling thinking,
[00:22:50.220]or like a DNA helix where they come back and go back.
[00:22:54.350]And so there's just different ways of thinking,
[00:22:57.210]but it's definitely not gonna be the same.
[00:22:59.770]And it can still be verbal or a combination.
[00:23:03.030]And there's gonna be a lot of awkwardness.
[00:23:04.900]And so social issues, misunderstanding
[00:23:07.410]and labeling are really common.
[00:23:10.690]And so the misperception is that autism
[00:23:14.270]is all these geeky men that maybe don't care about people
[00:23:17.810]that are just very logical, right?
[00:23:19.790]And that, it can be true, sure,
[00:23:22.790]but it's not really true.
[00:23:24.800]This is a stereotype that doesn't really work.
[00:23:27.580]So poll three, what does a lack of eye contact mean?
[00:24:02.640]Okay, eye contact is uncomfortable.
[00:24:05.150]Yes, it can be really uncomfortable for someone with autism.
[00:24:09.530]And other neurodiverse people too,
[00:24:11.540]it can take away focus.
[00:24:13.020]So both of those things are actually right.
[00:24:17.130]Brooke made me do that (laughs), so there we go.
[00:24:19.360]So both of those things are right,
[00:24:20.840]and it doesn't mean they're lying or hiding anything.
[00:24:23.990]That's a common misconception.
[00:24:27.230]Okay, do autistic people feel emotions?
[00:24:59.430]Okay, yeah, you guys are great!
[00:25:01.210]Yes, they can be overwhelming,
[00:25:03.240]and yes, both for their own emotions and empathy for others.
[00:25:07.860]Empathy can be super,
[00:25:10.290]I always used to say I have disabling empathy.
[00:25:16.460]So those are both right.
[00:25:17.910]So it manifests away from the norm as a sensory sensitivity,
[00:25:22.640]lack of eye contact,
[00:25:24.050]totally ignoring nonverbal communication
[00:25:26.150]because you can't focus on two things at once.
[00:25:28.210]That's a big part of it.
[00:25:29.440]And so you've never learned to understand that.
[00:25:32.250]And direct, very, John calls it box thinking,
[00:25:36.440]very literal thinking,
[00:25:38.610]and honesty, like almost an inability to be dishonest
[00:25:43.570]and just answer questions and think.
[00:25:45.430]And so that will make us blunt and seem rude
[00:25:48.680]but we're not trying to be rude, not usually.
[00:25:52.490]So, okay, repetitive behaviors,
[00:25:54.740]like I talked about a special interest
[00:25:57.920]which the stereotype is trains for autistic men
[00:26:01.220]that it could be horses, wildlife, anything,
[00:26:04.500]and that difficulty with executive functioning
[00:26:07.230]and processing differences.
[00:26:08.520]And like I said, female autism manifests very differently.
[00:26:12.720]And at the end we have a reference for that.
[00:26:14.970]But if you've met one autistic person,
[00:26:16.720]you've met one autistic person
[00:26:18.280]because just like everybody else, we're all different.
[00:26:22.470]But the big issue is
[00:26:23.490]there's an interspecies communication issue.
[00:26:26.520]So Milton calls this a double empathy model,
[00:26:30.130]a double empathy problem.
[00:26:31.800]So it turns out that autistic people
[00:26:34.470]can talk to each other just fine.
[00:26:36.680]And neurodiverse people can talk to each other
[00:26:39.800]much better than a autistic and a neurotypical person.
[00:26:44.580]So if you put all these autistic people in a room,
[00:26:47.033]they are gonna get along.
[00:26:48.320]If you play a gossip game
[00:26:49.710]and they've done this research, you know,
[00:26:51.490]the telephone gossip game where you go down the line,
[00:26:54.530]if you have all autistic people and you say
[00:26:56.810]at the beginning, "Hey, it's a great, beautiful day.
[00:26:59.177]"We're gonna have a fun day today,"
[00:27:02.530]at the end, they say the same thing.
[00:27:05.190]If you mix the groups,
[00:27:06.810]at the end you're gonna get
[00:27:07.890]the world is on fire or something.
[00:27:10.120]But if you have just neurotypical people too,
[00:27:13.070]you're still gonna do pretty well.
[00:27:16.025]And these are because the autistic people
[00:27:18.080]aren't using and don't understand
[00:27:20.700]any of these nonverbal communication methods
[00:27:23.280]that are actually really important
[00:27:26.130]in neurotypical communication.
[00:27:28.530]So it leads to having a lot of myths.
[00:27:31.070]Like we don't have emotions, we express those differently,
[00:27:35.280]or it's an intellectual disability
[00:27:40.050]and things like that.
[00:27:41.280]But actually there's a lot of strengths.
[00:27:43.570]There's a lot of analytical problem-solving,
[00:27:46.610]critical thinking, deep focus, kindness.
[00:27:49.970]There's a lot of autistic people like Greta Thunberg
[00:27:53.030]who's very interested in social justice issues.
[00:27:57.080]Tenacity, expertise, creativity, music, perfect pitch,
[00:28:01.433]lots of strengths.
[00:28:02.940]And so an example would be Dan Aykroyd
[00:28:05.210]made the movie "Ghostbusters"
[00:28:06.590]because it was part of his special interests
[00:28:09.280]on ghosts and law enforcement.
[00:28:11.230]Or other really famous people,
[00:28:13.890]actors, activists, inventors, scientists,
[00:28:17.700]sculptors, artists, naturalists,
[00:28:22.180]like you name it almost,
[00:28:25.400]there's people at the very top of their field
[00:28:27.960]that are autistic, and so they bring a lot to the world.
[00:28:31.670]So how can we be an ally,
[00:28:33.570]which goes back to that question, right?
[00:28:36.460]How can we be an ally and an advocate for autistic people?
[00:28:40.280]So one thing would be, let's see if this works
[00:28:46.410]is that we can have empathy.
[00:28:48.220]Can you guys see this,
You're paying too much money
[00:28:50.840]for electric bills?
[00:28:51.752]Do you have a meter that looks like this in your home?
[00:28:54.150]You can get.
[00:28:56.188]So (indistinct) for a second, and then I didn't.
[00:29:03.460]So I can see your PowerPoint, Lisa,
[00:29:05.720]but I can't see the video.
[00:29:08.800]Very different than empathy.
[00:29:10.714]Empathy fuels connection.
[00:29:14.140]You just have to switch your screen.
[00:29:15.310]Pause your video.
[00:29:20.992]Does that work?
[00:29:25.290]And then can you restart it?
[00:29:26.990]There you go.
[00:29:27.823]And then can you click this little square
[00:29:29.780]on the right- hand corner?
[00:29:32.590]This is empathy,
[00:29:34.180]and why is it very different than sympathy?
[00:29:37.750]Empathy fuels connection;
[00:29:40.340]sympathy drives disconnection.
[00:29:43.310]Empathy, it's very interesting.
[00:29:44.980]Theresa Wiseman is a nursing scholar
[00:29:47.810]who studied professions,
[00:29:50.240]very diverse professions where empathy is relevant
[00:29:52.390]and came up with four qualities of empathy:
[00:29:54.700]perspective-taking, the ability to take
[00:29:57.410]the perspective of another person
[00:29:58.890]or recognize their perspective as their truth,
[00:30:01.340]staying out of judgment,
[00:30:02.820]not easy when you enjoy it as much as most of us do,
[00:30:07.150]recognizing emotion in other people
[00:30:08.920]and then communicating that.
[00:30:10.970]Empathy is feeling with people.
[00:30:14.840]And to me, I always think of empathy
[00:30:16.340]as this kind of sacred space
[00:30:19.300]when someone's kind of in a deep hole,
[00:30:21.790]and they shout out from the bottom
[00:30:23.110]and they say, "I'm stuck, it's dark, I'm overwhelmed."
[00:30:27.020]And then we look and we say, "Hey!"
[00:30:30.100]We climb down, "I know what it's like down here
[00:30:33.347]"and you're not alone."
[00:30:35.220]Sympathy is, "Ooh!"
[00:30:38.897]"It's bad, uh huh!"
[00:30:42.317]"No, you want a sandwich?"
[00:30:47.450]Empathy is a choice and it's a vulnerable choice
[00:30:50.010]because in order to connect with you,
[00:30:52.190]I have to connect with something in myself
[00:30:54.890]that knows that feeling.
[00:30:57.340]Rarely if ever does an empathic response
[00:31:00.300]begin with "at least."
[00:31:04.694]Yeah, and we do it all the time because you know what?
[00:31:08.400]Someone just shared something with us.
[00:31:10.150]It's incredibly painful,
[00:31:12.070]and we're trying to silver lining it.
[00:31:14.030]I don't think that's a verb, but I'm using it as one.
[00:31:17.550]We're trying to put the silver lining around it.
[00:31:19.200]So "I had a miscarriage."
[00:31:21.197]"Oh, at least you know you can get pregnant."
[00:31:24.037]"I think my marriage is falling apart."
[00:31:26.167]"At least you have a marriage."
[00:31:32.087]"John's getting kicked out of school."
[00:31:34.017]"At least Sarah is an A student."
[00:31:36.300]But one of the things we do sometimes
[00:31:38.320]in the face of very difficult conversations
[00:31:43.240]is we try to make things better.
[00:31:45.420]If I share something with you that's very difficult,
[00:31:47.750]I'd rather you say,
[00:31:48.837]"Whew, I don't even know what to say right now.
[00:31:51.327]"I'm just so glad you told me."
[00:31:54.350]Because the truth is rarely can a response
[00:31:57.560]make something better.
[00:31:59.000]What makes something better is connection.
[00:32:09.770]I need to make the stop, though.
[00:32:16.990]Just close your tab.
[00:32:19.070]I don't know how.
[00:32:20.720]Well, it stopped making noise, so.
[00:32:25.000]Okay, so hopefully that works.
[00:32:28.820]'Cause yeah, it wasn't letting me, sorry about that.
[00:32:37.460]Okay, so we wanna have empathy.
[00:32:39.440]So if someone shares with us they're struggling
[00:32:41.410]or they're autistic, please don't minimize it.
[00:32:43.780]Please don't say, "Oh, well aren't we all
[00:32:45.847]"a little bit autistic, right?"
[00:32:47.790]Or "I know someone else who is."
[00:32:49.720]Just listen and have some empathy and ask what they need.
[00:32:53.310]And also let people be who they are.
[00:32:55.380]Autistics really mask a lot and try not to be who they are
[00:32:59.200]because it brings negative attention to us.
[00:33:01.690]And we know how important it is to make eye contact
[00:33:05.020]and to try to be normal and to not stim in public.
[00:33:08.200]But those things cost a lot of energy.
[00:33:10.900]It's just like my dog, who is a Great Pyrenees.
[00:33:13.730]His genetics made him, I mean, hundreds of years of breeding
[00:33:18.060]made him want to guard a flock
[00:33:19.570]and he didn't have a flock to guard.
[00:33:21.240]So he made do with guarding his stuffies, and he barked.
[00:33:25.000]But I couldn't make him be a Border Collie.
[00:33:28.610]I couldn't make him herd.
[00:33:30.150]I couldn't make him do a lot of tricks
[00:33:31.920]or run obstacle courses.
[00:33:33.430]He was who he was
[00:33:35.180]but he had the strengths and he is independent.
[00:33:38.060]And if I focus on the strengths of the person,
[00:33:40.700]then that's a much better way to be
[00:33:43.220]in terms of allowing someone to be theirselves
[00:33:45.980]and allowing someone to be comfortable
[00:33:48.700]and build on those strengths.
[00:33:50.330]So again, we don't wanna use internalized ableism
[00:33:53.467]or externalized ableism.
[00:33:55.270]We wanna go for a new normal and say,
[00:33:57.417]"Hey, it's okay if you stim."
[00:33:59.700]And don't think that people can't do something
[00:34:03.780]or tell yourself that you can't
[00:34:05.870]because you have a difference.
[00:34:08.250]We need to build people
[00:34:09.370]up so everyone can reach that self-actualization level
[00:34:13.910]and work on their strengths
[00:34:15.140]because people, everyone wants to contribute
[00:34:18.280]and be what they can be
[00:34:20.320]and do the things that they wanna do.
[00:34:22.270]And so you can offer to be a bridge communicator
[00:34:25.230]and you can try to help communicate.
[00:34:26.890]So try to recognize
[00:34:27.930]that you're gonna have to be really specific with your words
[00:34:31.180]and not have any things in between
[00:34:33.560]and only listen to words, even in email.
[00:34:35.760]Don't think they're being rude or anything like that.
[00:34:38.540]Yes, maybe it's blunt
[00:34:40.100]but it's not coming from a bad place.
[00:34:42.570]And a bridge communicator is someone that can go with you.
[00:34:45.970]Or you can ask maybe later or in some way.
[00:34:49.300]And John does this for me and other people do this for me,
[00:34:52.450]to say, "Well, this is what they meant."
[00:34:54.210]I'll send an email and they'll say, this is what this means.
[00:34:56.990]Or they'll come with me
[00:34:58.060]if there's a stressful situation
[00:35:01.600]and help communicate, help with all those non-verbals
[00:35:04.920]and other things that are going on.
[00:35:06.380]But it's a two-way street.
[00:35:07.830]And so we all have to communicate better.
[00:35:09.960]And then we can include everyone, right?
[00:35:12.180]So I like to use Winnie the Pooh as an example,
[00:35:15.970]because Winnie the Pooh, let's face it,
[00:35:17.580]he had an eating disorder.
[00:35:20.020]Eeyore was depressed.
[00:35:22.800]Piglet was very virtuous, but very anxious
[00:35:25.900]and Tigger probably had ADHD,
[00:35:28.130]but they always included everybody
[00:35:29.920]and didn't exclude anybody, okay?
[00:35:32.700]So I want us to think about what if we created a world
[00:35:36.090]not looking for weaknesses and fearing differences,
[00:35:39.390]but looking for strengths
[00:35:40.550]to harness the abundance of human creativity,
[00:35:43.410]culture and ingenuity?
[00:35:45.440]Every person needs to be treated
[00:35:47.410]with dignity and respect, right?
[00:35:49.770]And that will bring us a better world.
[00:35:53.070]So how can we help in our roles?
[00:35:55.600]How can we be an ally?
[00:35:57.010]You can type things into chat if you want.
[00:36:01.170]But also at this point,
[00:36:02.550]I'm gonna, we're gonna talk about solutions.
[00:36:05.820]And I want John to talk
[00:36:07.400]about solutions or experiences or tips.
[00:36:09.900]I don't actually know what he's gonna say.
[00:36:11.830]And so he can talk about his experiences
[00:36:15.360]as a supervisor of people that are neurodiverse.
[00:36:20.700]Thanks, Lisa, actually,
[00:36:24.047]you are the expert in this whole area.
[00:36:27.070]And I think that what I can offer
[00:36:30.260]is just my personal experience
[00:36:31.920]in dealing with somebody,
[00:36:35.300]Lisa, who is autistic,
[00:36:36.890]and how we've worked together for quite a long time.
[00:36:40.390]And her slide here that's up on the screen
[00:36:42.770]is actually quite a good overview
[00:36:45.010]of the sorts of things that I would say.
[00:36:47.910]So I'm gonna make this very personal
[00:36:50.220]because I think that, sorry, Lisa,
[00:36:53.440]you know me too well now.
[00:36:56.632]You know, I'm Director of the School of Natural Resources.
[00:36:59.760]And so Lisa and I
[00:37:01.930]have been working together for eight years
[00:37:06.280]since I became the director.
[00:37:07.440]And I came from another university.
[00:37:09.500]So I didn't know about anything
[00:37:11.010]about Lisa's previous experiences here at UNL
[00:37:14.960]which were actually quite traumatic.
[00:37:17.250]And I would say of those eight years
[00:37:20.510]that we've worked together,
[00:37:22.210]the last five years have been very good.
[00:37:26.030]We'll talk less about the first three years.
[00:37:28.460]The first three years were a period of time where I think
[00:37:34.515]that Lisa and I had to figure
[00:37:37.160]out how to work with each other.
[00:37:39.340]And it was a struggle.
[00:37:40.680]And we met a lot together.
[00:37:42.990]We had a lot of miscommunication
[00:37:45.850]and, you know, I didn't understand where she was coming
[00:37:48.090]from and she didn't out herself to me
[00:37:51.464]till a fair period of time into our working relationship.
[00:37:55.890]But what I have to say about Lisa is
[00:37:58.500]that I would consider her one of the bravest people I know.
[00:38:04.220]She was very brave to out herself to me
[00:38:07.110]especially after her pretty recent traumatic experience.
[00:38:11.620]And that allowed us to basically have
[00:38:15.410]a sort of a threshold moment where we were able to move
[00:38:18.630]past just trying to figure out what planet
[00:38:21.850]each of us were on.
[00:38:23.350]And as it turns out, neither of us are from this planet.
[00:38:26.180]And so that worked out really well.
[00:38:29.370]So it's been a great working relationship for the two of us
[00:38:33.800]and a great learning experience for the two of us,
[00:38:36.220]because I think trying to work with me
[00:38:38.580]has been a learning experience for Lisa too.
[00:38:41.712]So it's been a two-way street.
[00:38:43.290]It's just not John learning how to deal
[00:38:46.120]with somebody who's different.
[00:38:47.630]It was the two of us
[00:38:49.730]trying to come to some reconciliation
[00:38:53.290]about how I could be a better boss
[00:38:56.560]and she could be a better faculty member here at UNL.
[00:39:00.000]And that we both
[00:39:02.870]get to the point where my job
[00:39:04.960]is to help my faculty be better at what they do.
[00:39:09.420]And I think that we're in a much better place now.
[00:39:13.250]One of the things that Lisa does like to talk
[00:39:15.820]about, I haven't heard her say much about it lately
[00:39:17.840]is this idea of hidden diversity,
[00:39:20.100]because it is one type of diversity
[00:39:22.600]where you might not see it immediately.
[00:39:26.534]And if somebody doesn't talk to you
[00:39:29.680]about their particular sort of diversity
[00:39:33.610]in this kind of sort of case,
[00:39:36.100]it is easy to fall into some traps that she talked
[00:39:39.650]about in her really good brief presentation.
[00:39:43.430]So I'll keep it very short here.
[00:39:45.160]In a nutshell, I have three points,
[00:39:47.500]how I have tried to operate
[00:39:51.763]technically as her supervisor
[00:39:53.360]here at the University of Nebraska
[00:39:56.320]and thinking about my job as being one
[00:39:59.010]to try to help my folks
[00:40:03.960]do their jobs better,
[00:40:06.110]which is really what what the director of the school
[00:40:08.750]is supposed to do.
[00:40:10.500]The first thing is what Lisa's taught me
[00:40:12.847]has helped me be a better supervisor
[00:40:15.960]by reminding me all the time
[00:40:17.740]that every human being is different.
[00:40:19.830]And I think she alluded to a lot of that here.
[00:40:22.280]It's not just talking about folks on the autism spectrum.
[00:40:26.730]All of us have different strengths and weaknesses.
[00:40:29.320]And as a supervisor,
[00:40:33.080]I try to work really hard now
[00:40:35.190]to recognize that in all my folks.
[00:40:38.410]Lisa's just a special case of that.
[00:40:41.900]But it's helped me a lot be better
[00:40:44.130]at working with all of my team.
[00:40:48.980]And especially in this idea
[00:40:51.480]of enhancing individual strengths,
[00:40:54.440]really trying to emphasize
[00:40:58.880]what aspects of them are they really good
[00:41:01.520]at that will help them.
[00:41:03.780]And, you know, we're talking
[00:41:05.060]about a professional experience here.
[00:41:06.670]It's their job.
[00:41:07.970]How can we take advantage of those strengths
[00:41:11.440]to have them, let them do their job better?
[00:41:15.310]And there are all kinds of examples
[00:41:18.320]where Lisa has just blossomed in the last five years
[00:41:21.850]as her confidence has expanded after the initial trauma,
[00:41:28.169]and in our time working together.
[00:41:29.820]And I don't take any credit for that.
[00:41:31.560]That's just the two of us working together
[00:41:34.790]as human beings, trying to understand each other
[00:41:37.460]and trying to get to some common goals.
[00:41:40.840]I think the final point I wanna make is
[00:41:43.790]that what it takes is active effort.
[00:41:47.760]I think that some of the issues
[00:41:50.240]in dealing with autistic folks
[00:41:54.010]in professional situations
[00:41:56.520]is that bosses struggle with it.
[00:41:59.215]And since they're struggling with it,
[00:42:02.090]they become passive about it.
[00:42:04.480]And if you become passive about it,
[00:42:06.380]then immediately it's going to result
[00:42:09.520]in sort of a gap between you
[00:42:12.780]in trying to understand each other and moving forward.
[00:42:17.210]And finally, I think the best thing that I like
[00:42:20.270]about my working relationship with Lisa
[00:42:23.270]is that I think that we both trust each other.
[00:42:26.460]I think that she feels as though she can trust me
[00:42:30.260]to act in her best interest.
[00:42:32.700]And I love it when she asks me
[00:42:35.340]if she's messed up somewhere in some communication
[00:42:39.030]with people, because that makes me feel
[00:42:40.840]like that she actually trusts my judgment
[00:42:44.640]in helping her be the best person that she can be.
[00:42:48.230]And I feel really good about that.
[00:42:50.390]And the best part of all of that
[00:42:53.230]is I can tease the heck out of Lisa now,
[00:42:55.650]and she's got a great sense of humor
[00:42:57.440]and she teases the heck out of me.
[00:42:59.911]And what more can you ask for when you're at work together
[00:43:04.540]and make it a happy place?
[00:43:06.310]And with that, I'll leave it, and back to you, Lisa.
[00:43:10.210]Okay, so I know you don't have a lot of time left
[00:43:12.540]and we had a lot of things and a lot of tips.
[00:43:14.870]But luckily Brooke has dropped them into a infographic
[00:43:18.820]that we were working on and I hope she finished.
[00:43:21.490]And she can drop that into the chat, I think,
[00:43:24.720]or we can get it put on the website.
[00:43:26.610]But we had all these things for you to be able to do
[00:43:28.700]for classes, for the university.
[00:43:30.740]And I wanna say that part of, I forgot to say
[00:43:33.220]why I'm really interested in working on this issue
[00:43:37.980]is because I've talked to and met
[00:43:40.340]a lot of autistic students.
[00:43:42.070]And there was autistic students who told me
[00:43:44.380]how they dropped out of classes and things like that,
[00:43:46.820]even classes that were their special interests
[00:43:49.030]because the communication and things weren't working
[00:43:51.970]or they were ostracized or something.
[00:43:54.300]But there was a student who told me
[00:43:56.230]that for an entire semester, she slept outside.
[00:43:59.700]She couldn't handle the noise
[00:44:01.770]and the other stimulation in the dorm.
[00:44:03.730]It was so overwhelming and so painful
[00:44:06.810]that she preferred to sleep outside.
[00:44:11.400]And several other students have told me
[00:44:13.030]that they couldn't eat at the dining hall
[00:44:15.410]even though they had the meal plan
[00:44:17.210]because of the noise in there.
[00:44:18.760]And restaurant decibel levels
[00:44:20.950]have increased so much, they're harmful to everyone.
[00:44:24.260]So there's a lot of work that we need to do at UNL
[00:44:28.370]to help our neurodiverse students.
[00:44:30.300]And it helps us all if we do.
[00:44:33.080]Just like curb cuts help us all,
[00:44:35.430]helping everyone helps us all.
[00:44:37.870]And I think I'm out of time.
[00:44:39.990]So do we have any questions?
[00:44:43.340]There were no additional questions.
[00:44:47.970]Did we answer the previous question
[00:44:49.870]that came through earlier?
[00:44:52.900]We kind of did we didn't get to it all, but yeah.
[00:44:56.050]So here I'm gonna drop two links into the chat.
[00:45:02.670]I think we're going to have to share the PDF
[00:45:04.930]along with the copy of the PowerPoint
[00:45:07.460]that I think we're also sharing.
[00:45:09.670]But I was able to get that together
[00:45:11.840]and it's ready for anybody to print
[00:45:15.450]and hang up in their offices or just use as a resource,
[00:45:20.620]you know, to share or save on your desktop
[00:45:22.780]because that was a team effort to put that together.
[00:45:26.330]And I think there's really good information on there
[00:45:29.110]and doable things that you can start to implement
[00:45:32.190]every single day.
[00:45:35.120]Yeah, thanks so much, Brooke, for doing that.
[00:45:39.770]Well, I just wanted to add one.
[00:45:41.830]I know we're out of time
[00:45:42.740]but I wanna add one personal note
[00:45:44.130]is that Dr. Pennisi encouraged me
[00:45:47.370]to be more upfront about my ADHD diagnosis
[00:45:51.870]which has helped me learn how to work well in teams
[00:45:55.810]and with other people as well.
[00:45:57.780]And so I wouldn't have thought to share this
[00:46:01.470]and be as public as I have been
[00:46:03.340]without her support and taking her class.
[00:46:06.100]And really good discussions have come out from these kinds
[00:46:09.830]of presentations and the attention given to this topic.
[00:46:13.620]So, thank you.
[00:46:15.050]Yes, thank you so much again for having us.
[00:46:17.960]And I really hope people
[00:46:20.760]got something from this.
[00:46:27.240]I guess I need to stop share.
[00:46:29.680]Yes, please, thank you.
[00:46:31.280]Turn our cameras off, right, okay.
[00:46:38.140]Well thank you all so very much.
[00:46:40.170]I wanna say on behalf
[00:46:41.140]of the Office of Diversity and Inclusion,
[00:46:43.040]I truly extend a heartfelt thanks
[00:46:45.030]to Dr. Pennisi and her team.
[00:46:46.880]This was educational and it was very informative.
[00:46:49.270]And I think I speak for so many who participated
[00:46:51.810]in terms of this sessions is that it really truly shows
[00:46:55.530]an example of how we expand
[00:46:57.460]our own understanding of diversity
[00:47:00.100]through neurodiversity, and ways we can be more inclusive
[00:47:03.210]in our own understanding and in our constant search
[00:47:06.470]and quest for being inclusive,
[00:47:08.130]and of course, principals of inclusive excellence.
[00:47:10.470]And just to all our listeners right now,
[00:47:12.208]we'll be sure to make sure that all of the information
[00:47:14.830]we're presenting today
[00:47:15.773]will be made available to you in the upcoming days as well.
[00:47:18.690]So thank you again to Dr. Pennisi and the team.
[00:47:21.810]We will take a break for 15 minutes,
[00:47:23.740]and we will see you all back here
[00:47:25.160]at the same link that you have right now
[00:47:27.040]at 4:30 for our second session, thank you.
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