Wildcat Q&A
Center for Great Plains Studies
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04/08/2021
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Question and answer session with Daniel Wildcat, speaker at the 2021 Great Plains conference. To see the full talk, visit our media channel.
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- [00:00:00.120]Well, we just want to express how grateful we are
- [00:00:02.870]for you being here today, Dan and presenting to us.
- [00:00:08.710]I was just so struck by how valuable this concept
- [00:00:11.980]or this reconceptualization of the world as one
- [00:00:15.480]of relatives, rather than resources is so, so helpful.
- [00:00:20.217]And one of a world of responsibilities too.
- [00:00:25.820]I, we invite you to leave any questions you may have
- [00:00:28.700]in the Q and A.
- [00:00:29.570]we only have a couple so far, and while we're waiting
- [00:00:32.620]for more questions to come in, I had a question for you.
- [00:00:37.550]I wonder if you could take us through a kind
- [00:00:40.200]of specific example of what it would mean to view the
- [00:00:45.037]to take this shift in our paradigms, you know
- [00:00:49.850]about anything you wanted, but one of the issues that came
- [00:00:52.650]up for me right away was thinking
- [00:00:54.100]about the Keystone XL Pipeline or the DAPPLE pipeline
- [00:00:57.877]as an example of what would it mean to shift our perspective
- [00:01:02.190]to thinking about that in a world of relationships
- [00:01:07.150]and rather than resources?
- [00:01:11.610]Yeah, well, that's a good example.
- [00:01:14.983]I think if the, you know, Stand with Standing Rock
- [00:01:18.970]or Stand for Standing Rock Movement that went
- [00:01:21.370]along with the Dakota Access Pipeline was really
- [00:01:23.908]an excellent example of thinking that.
- [00:01:28.095]Thinking that as the, really the women
- [00:01:30.420]the mothers who started that whole movement pointed out
- [00:01:36.041]we're here as water protectors, not protestors.
- [00:01:42.640]We're here to protect the water and water is life.
- [00:01:48.070]So they immediately shifted the whole consciousness
- [00:01:51.700]about what was going on to that sense of responsibility
- [00:01:57.990]that we ought to have towards that most important element
- [00:02:04.210]of even our own human bodies, water.
- [00:02:07.860]And I, think we could, you know
- [00:02:10.060]you could look at that and
- [00:02:11.810]in all of our consumption practices, you could look at that
- [00:02:18.300]and particularly the way that we still
- [00:02:23.930]produce a tremendous amount of waste in this society
- [00:02:28.680]given the level of, you know
- [00:02:31.980]consumption that Americans practice.
- [00:02:35.840]I think if we were born more mindful,
- [00:02:38.690]the plants, they feed us
- [00:02:45.320]the earth itself, the water required.
- [00:02:49.180]And we started thinking, you know, I, we
- [00:02:52.170]we've got to quit looking at nature as
- [00:02:54.030]that ATM machine where we're constantly taking something
- [00:02:57.310]out of it, we're withdrawing more and more every year
- [00:03:00.570]out of the earth and say, no, that's not a way to behave.
- [00:03:04.990]We've got to behave like good relatives.
- [00:03:07.040]And that means I have a responsibility.
- [00:03:09.830]I have a responsibility to the land, to the water.
- [00:03:14.570]And I think that's really a valuable insight.
- [00:03:18.710]It means you would, you would take really, you know
- [00:03:24.790]the overuse, over consumption or the misuse
- [00:03:29.560]of those incredible relatives that we have
- [00:03:35.570]on this planet important.
- [00:03:37.940]And I think it would have consequences
- [00:03:40.920]in terms of the health of that larger kinship system
- [00:03:45.900]we are a part of.
- [00:03:47.010]So I had a friend who used to always say, you know
- [00:03:49.930]really the key to ecosystem restoration
- [00:03:56.514]is really cultural ecosystem restoration.
- [00:04:03.800]Dennis Martinez an incredible ecologist and a scientist.
- [00:04:13.160]I heard him use that term first, eco cultural restoration
- [00:04:17.740]and meaning that we need to be mindful
- [00:04:20.680]of how we're living with all of this life
- [00:04:25.540]that surrounds us and the land, the air and the water.
- [00:04:28.290]And I do think, you know, that we would change the way
- [00:04:31.902]we would no longer look at our relationships
- [00:04:36.770]as how we're going to use or consume those resources,
- [00:04:44.410]but rather we would say
- [00:04:45.930]what should my proper relationship be
- [00:04:48.784]with the plants, the land, the water.
- [00:04:54.420]And I, so I think, you know, you can just do
- [00:04:57.595]you could extend that out
- [00:04:59.670]and as deeply as you wanted to, into our daily lives.
- [00:05:04.100]I've been feeling real guilty because I've got a couple
- [00:05:08.210]of washers I need to replace in the kitchen sink.
- [00:05:12.380]And I was just thinking this morning,
- [00:05:14.190]oh my gosh, you've got to fix those because every time
- [00:05:18.210]you turn it on
- [00:05:19.090]you've got this water that you're wasting
- [00:05:20.910]because of the dripping and stuff.
- [00:05:22.660]And I thought, Dan, you're not being a very good relative.
- [00:05:25.910]So you start, you look
- [00:05:27.580]at that that way and you go like, you know
- [00:05:29.410]I've really got to get that taken care of.
- [00:05:33.740]Gosh, it's great to think about that
- [00:05:36.940]and as you say, in all aspects of our lives.
- [00:05:40.030]Yes.
- [00:05:40.863]We've got a couple great questions coming in.
- [00:05:44.210]The first one is I'm curious, your thoughts
- [00:05:47.900]on the term citizen science
- [00:05:50.110]and how that relates with indigenous knowledge.
- [00:05:52.780]I've heard recently that it should
- [00:05:53.970]be called community science instead
- [00:05:55.990]to be more so inclusive.
- [00:05:57.837]So your thoughts on that.
- [00:06:00.810]Yeah, I like the idea of community science better
- [00:06:04.740]because it acknowledges that fact that, you know,
- [00:06:11.210]science in indigenous traditions, I would argue and we
- [00:06:15.350]had science was always a co, it was a co-produced activity.
- [00:06:24.874]This is a big term now in cutting edge science,
- [00:06:28.630]the co-production of knowledge.
- [00:06:30.420]We're talking about how different disciplines
- [00:06:32.760]need to cooperate communities with scientists.
- [00:06:36.070]It's a co-production.
- [00:06:37.720]And I like that.
- [00:06:38.830]I think community science would be better
- [00:06:41.335]with one proviso that you include in that community
- [00:06:47.510]the plants and the animals and the land (laughs)
- [00:06:50.480]and that are your partners in developing that knowledge.
- [00:06:58.960]That knowledge, the community is that ecosystem
- [00:07:06.050]you are a part of.
- [00:07:06.960]Again that's the other thing too.
- [00:07:08.560]Think of that dramatic shift.
- [00:07:11.490]Oh, we live on an ecosystem or, you know, yeah,
- [00:07:16.490]we're part of an ecosystem, but when you really think
- [00:07:21.580]about it, if you're a part of that system
- [00:07:25.900]then that means in an indigenous way of thinking,
- [00:07:30.510]you've got a lot of kin that you've got to think
- [00:07:33.278]about and try to behave responsibly towards.
- [00:07:37.750]And so I liked the idea of community science
- [00:07:41.856]and as long as you include in that community, the life
- [00:07:46.150]around you too, as part of that community of science.
- [00:07:52.610]Well, thank you, Dan.
- [00:07:54.120]We've got a question.
- [00:07:55.840]How can we cultivate respect?
- [00:07:58.290]And particularly for indigenous perspectives
- [00:08:01.710]in a society that often takes pleasure
- [00:08:04.220]in conflict and emphasis and has emphasis on divisions.
- [00:08:09.820]Yeah, boy, that's a good question.
- [00:08:12.197]And I have been thinking about that a lot this past year
- [00:08:15.160]obviously like everyone else.
- [00:08:17.816]I think it's gonna be hard work.
- [00:08:20.610]And I understand right now that, you know
- [00:08:25.280]in a way, you know, my talks about advocating this kind
- [00:08:29.430]of re consecrating of the importance
- [00:08:33.740]of a relationship with our other than human relatives.
- [00:08:38.660]And right now it seems like we can't even treat
- [00:08:42.775]our own human kin well and I think that's,
- [00:08:48.160]I want to honor that as a very serious problem.
- [00:08:53.530]And I think we really have some important discussions
- [00:08:59.080]and work ahead of us about what it's going to take,
- [00:09:02.956]you know, to overcome that.
- [00:09:07.400]And so I think it's, you know
- [00:09:10.998]the question's right on target.
- [00:09:14.630]I mean, in terms of some of the real challenges
- [00:09:18.300]we're facing now, but it's kind of all related.
- [00:09:24.470]Some people have talked about, there's been a lot
- [00:09:27.180]of feminist scholars who I know people
- [00:09:29.530]in this audience will be familiar with,
- [00:09:31.680]eco feminist who've argued, you know
- [00:09:33.860]really the treatment, of nature mirrors
- [00:09:36.620]the treatment of women.
- [00:09:38.050]You know that there have been cultures
- [00:09:40.680]that have looked at women, you know,
- [00:09:42.980]as something that were almost useful
- [00:09:49.919]and instruments for men to use and for the,
- [00:09:56.122]you know propagation and proliferation
- [00:09:59.024]of quote their families.
- [00:10:02.550]And I think that there's some truths
- [00:10:06.080]a lot of truth to that.
- [00:10:07.980]And again, this might be a point where we really think
- [00:10:11.980]about how we shouldn't divide these, these discussions.
- [00:10:15.950]We should really wed them and look at the way
- [00:10:19.350]they are intertwined.
- [00:10:21.996]I think it's a challenge.
- [00:10:23.900]I think we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
- [00:10:26.730]It seems to me that now is a good time to start
- [00:10:31.400]some of that work.
- [00:10:32.750]I, there seems to be enough of a public
- [00:10:36.690]awareness that this is something we should
- [00:10:40.370]we should seize the moment, seize the day and do it.
- [00:10:45.370]Thanks again, Dan.
- [00:10:46.620]And we've got a lot of really interesting questions.
- [00:10:49.003]Here's one, that's a little bit different.
- [00:10:52.132]How do urbanites, people born who grew up
- [00:10:55.490]and are educated in cities, establish
- [00:10:58.290]or reestablish connections with all of our relations?
- [00:11:02.010]I love that.
- [00:11:02.843]That's a great question.
- [00:11:04.401]And here's what I would like to say.
- [00:11:06.800]I live now not in a grand metropolis, but I live
- [00:11:10.140]in Lawrence, Kansas, many of, you know, a college town.
- [00:11:15.940]So we've got a sizable population.
- [00:11:18.395]And I really think urban and suburban peoples
- [00:11:25.556]in some ways could be the best illustrators
- [00:11:29.710]of what I'm talking about.
- [00:11:31.690]And that is to start really expressing
- [00:11:38.310]and acting on the importance of the out of doors
- [00:11:43.660]those spaces we have, even, they might be small spaces
- [00:11:47.693]in urban areas, in suburban areas where people can get out
- [00:11:54.330]of doors and how highly that's valued in things.
- [00:11:58.150]And really, we can never really be separate
- [00:12:02.670]from nature right?
- [00:12:04.060]I mean, that's an, again
- [00:12:05.340]another thing we have to kind of talk about
- [00:12:07.840]and I think urban people can do this, you know
- [00:12:14.290]in trying to make sure that they have
- [00:12:18.220]those spaces available.
- [00:12:20.671]You know work to create more green spaces within urban areas
- [00:12:27.520]for people to just be out of doors safely.
- [00:12:33.030]To be able to walk, to be able to, to just sit and talk.
- [00:12:37.900]And so I think that's something that now, particularly
- [00:12:43.410]in urban design and planning people are talking about
- [00:12:48.110]and I think it's really important
- [00:12:50.320]that we emphasize the fact that you can be an urban dweller
- [00:12:57.393]and still all you've got to do is try to create those spaces
- [00:13:04.390]or take advantages of those places where you can be
- [00:13:08.370]out of doors and, you know, sort of able to
- [00:13:13.384]hopefully hear what birds might be around, or, you know
- [00:13:18.150]feel the wind and the sun on you.
- [00:13:21.500]And I value that kind of experience.
- [00:13:24.765]People talk a lot about community gardens today,
- [00:13:28.180]man that's a great way
- [00:13:29.620]and what kids don't like to get their hands dirty.
- [00:13:32.330]Oh my gosh, get the kids out and plant a garden.
- [00:13:36.485]Even if it's a little one, get your grandkids out,
- [00:13:39.970]get your children out, let them get their hands dirty.
- [00:13:44.981]They'll have a great time and you can teach them something
- [00:13:46.980]while they're doing that activity too.
- [00:13:49.370]But I think urban, suburban people have
- [00:13:54.573]have an opportunity to really advocate
- [00:13:57.630]for this kind of awareness as they think about
- [00:14:01.160]you know, planning and zoning activities
- [00:14:05.980]in their municipalities, their townships, their counties.
- [00:14:12.950]Thanks, Dan.
- [00:14:13.783]I'm sure everybody's really grateful
- [00:14:15.870]for all of your responses.
- [00:14:18.083]Here's another topic one person writes.
- [00:14:21.161]I'm curious to get your thoughts
- [00:14:23.600]on the approach that has recently been taken
- [00:14:25.850]where rivers have been granted legal rights
- [00:14:28.270]as in New Zealand and Columbia.
- [00:14:30.800]Is this something you think would create more
- [00:14:32.820]of a relational understanding of ecosystems?
- [00:14:36.570]Oh, I think it would.
- [00:14:37.403]I think it's, I think in the countries where
- [00:14:40.460]you see this happening, I think that's what it is.
- [00:14:43.987]It's this kind of acknowledgement that, you know
- [00:14:48.030]rivers are in and of themselves life systems.
- [00:14:53.000]And again what's the notion?
- [00:14:55.380]We shouldn't be arguing over who's right
- [00:14:58.790]it is to use that water.
- [00:15:02.100]The paradigm should be, hey humans
- [00:15:06.040]let's talk about how we can live respectfully
- [00:15:11.291]and responsibly have a relationship with that water.
- [00:15:16.720]And I do think I don't, I still wonder
- [00:15:21.720]if in the United States of America we're ready
- [00:15:24.607]for that yet, but again, that's the climate change,
- [00:15:30.200]the cultural climate change we need.
- [00:15:32.975]If we can start doing those kinds of things
- [00:15:36.270]I think there's good.
- [00:15:37.350]Good reason to be optimistic about the future.
- [00:15:43.700]We have a question I think that follows really well
- [00:15:46.490]from this one.
- [00:15:47.323]And as we reconceive of an ecosystem as a relational one
- [00:15:53.450]between relatives, how do the relatives work together?
- [00:15:56.720]Are there hierarchies among them such
- [00:15:59.360]that some are to be considered more powerful,
- [00:16:01.710]more influential than others?
- [00:16:03.220]Or does this understanding suggest a basic equality
- [00:16:05.810]between each entity?
- [00:16:07.920]Yeah, I think it
- [00:16:08.833]I think it understands the notion that that sort of
- [00:16:13.240]you notice that I've always loved this about ecology.
- [00:16:17.820]And so just follow me just for a second.
- [00:16:19.876]Ecology look at species
- [00:16:23.840]and they will always identify the niche for every species.
- [00:16:27.290]Okay, I've always thought that
- [00:16:30.670]you know, ecologists, so where's the human niche?
- [00:16:35.510]We're living everywhere on the planet.
- [00:16:38.590]And I think, I think the relational perspective
- [00:16:45.530]is one that suggests we should probably leave for a moment,
- [00:16:49.682]this question of hierarchy and who has the most power.
- [00:16:55.886]And instead say, there's power all around us.
- [00:16:58.810]My mentor and dear friend Vine Deloria, Jr. coauthor
- [00:17:05.600]you know, used to like to say the basic principle
- [00:17:09.640]of indigenous metaphysics is power
- [00:17:12.410]plus place equals personality.
- [00:17:15.890]And what he was really saying is power surrounds us
- [00:17:19.860]in the creation and the place we are is defined
- [00:17:24.740]by the particular relations kind
- [00:17:26.820]of relationships that we are in.
- [00:17:29.310]And it's those that then shape that unique expression
- [00:17:33.180]of that place, or even ourselves in quote personality.
- [00:17:38.610]And I've thought about this
- [00:17:40.682]because this question really reminds me of that.
- [00:17:43.000]You know, part of this hierarchical order of power,
- [00:17:47.770]I think is something that if
- [00:17:52.230]we take a more ecological approach
- [00:17:56.040]or a relational approach, we can say, you know
- [00:17:59.720]kind of that notion of who has the most power
- [00:18:04.750]or the right to exercise power becomes less important
- [00:18:08.340]than simply framing it this way.
- [00:18:10.960]Let's understand what a good kind of
- [00:18:17.120]what do I want to say, regenerative kind
- [00:18:21.670]of relationship with this other life can look like.
- [00:18:26.680]And so a lot of people now are talking
- [00:18:28.240]about regenerative economies or circular economies.
- [00:18:32.470]Man, I think for those of us living in the great Plains
- [00:18:35.462]that is an incredible topic for us to explore right now.
- [00:18:41.140]So I would say I would leave
- [00:18:44.010]behind the notion of that question.
- [00:18:45.890]That, seems to me in that
- [00:18:47.620]the more Western hierarchal goal organization
- [00:18:52.744]human organization of things, rather than saying,
- [00:18:56.380]no let's figure out in this complex system of relationships
- [00:19:00.492]what that right relationship should look like.
- [00:19:05.730]How do we become a good relative?
- [00:19:10.230]Well, Dr. Wildcat, I think that's a fantastic place
- [00:19:13.960]to end.
- [00:19:15.590]What does it mean to be a good relation
- [00:19:18.112]good relation with others?
- [00:19:20.010]And we, again, when thank you so much for your presentation
- [00:19:24.570]and I'm gonna turn it over to Katie,
- [00:19:26.770]who's gonna tell us what's next.
- [00:19:29.171]Thank you.
- [00:19:30.820]Yeah (speaks native language)
- [00:19:34.170](soft guitar music)
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