Picturing Disaster Panel

Various Author

04/01/2021 Added

1 Plays

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Pre-talk discussion for E.N. Thompson forum discussion by Ann Bancroft.

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[00:00:00.160](upbeat music)
[00:00:11.573]All right, good evening everyone
[00:00:13.310]and thank you so much for attending
[00:00:15.010]the final E.N Thompson Forum On World Issues
[00:00:18.300]for the 2020 and 2021 academic year
[00:00:22.340]here at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln.
[00:00:25.250]My name is Katie Anania, I'm an Assistant Professor
[00:00:28.190]of Art History here at UNL
[00:00:30.170]and I'm here with my colleagues.
[00:00:34.040]Yes hi, I'm Stacy Asher.
[00:00:36.110]I'm Associate Professor of Art
[00:00:37.830]in the School of Art, Art History, and Design.
[00:00:41.030]Good evening, my name's Jessica Corman.
[00:00:43.100]I am an Assistant Professor
[00:00:45.330]in the School of Natural Resources.
[00:00:49.040]And I'm Ann Bancroft
[00:00:50.490]and I'm a polar explorer
[00:00:53.210]but I really describe myself as an educator,
[00:00:57.500]that's where my training is
[00:00:58.730]is in elementary ed and special ed, so delighted to be here.
[00:01:04.520]And in order to celebrate some of the through lines
[00:01:07.420]that kind of shoot through our respective work
[00:01:11.100]both as educators, and as scholars
[00:01:14.020]and as other practitioners,
[00:01:15.890]we are hosting this panel discussion
[00:01:18.580]to generate new models
[00:01:20.300]for creating conversations around climate collapse
[00:01:23.420]using photography, pictorial language, and graphic design.
[00:01:27.500]The format of tonight's panel is relatively flexible.
[00:01:30.980]We're gonna share a bit about our respective work
[00:01:35.410]and then invite a kind of more
[00:01:37.360]organic conversation between us
[00:01:39.350]about where our interests overlap and intersect.
[00:01:44.593]Just for ease of readership,
[00:01:47.221]and in our you know, initial kinda enthusiastic period
[00:01:51.490]of getting together, we designed several questions together
[00:01:54.810]that are listed here on this overhead projector.
[00:01:58.320]But we'll also read them out loud
[00:02:00.370]as they pass.
[00:02:03.010]But right now, I am just gonna start
[00:02:06.010]by introducing my own work.
[00:02:08.460]I specialize in modern contemporary art
[00:02:10.800]of the America's since 1750.
[00:02:14.300]And specifically, my interests as a teacher
[00:02:17.590]and as a writer
[00:02:19.240]rotate around a couple of things.
[00:02:21.130]One is investigating the role of artists and designers
[00:02:26.910]and their participation in notifying the public
[00:02:30.320]about social or ecological collapse.
[00:02:33.430]And I also do a lot of work around
[00:02:36.490]exploring the ways that artists,
[00:02:38.840]in subtle or sometimes really overt ways
[00:02:41.850]reveal the ways in which their work
[00:02:45.760]is tied to material cycles
[00:02:48.360]that come from the earth, that move into capitalism.
[00:02:52.660]And some of that got, some of that has its roots
[00:02:56.170]in one of my earliest jobs
[00:02:58.510]as a young art historian, as a young curator.
[00:03:01.950]This is a picture of where, one of my former work places.
[00:03:05.480]It's called the Chinati Foundation
[00:03:07.130]and it's located in Marfa, Texas.
[00:03:10.010]This is an art museum
[00:03:12.000]that is a repurposed military installation
[00:03:15.870]about 70 miles from the US/Mexico border
[00:03:18.620]in west Texas.
[00:03:20.370]And it was founded in the 1970's by an artist, Donald Judd
[00:03:25.570]who got money to rehabilitate this set of buildings
[00:03:28.930]that had been languishing for a long time.
[00:03:32.190]And he also invested in the ecology of,
[00:03:36.540]the local ecology surrounding the buildings.
[00:03:39.160]So, in addition to opening up
[00:03:40.840]and rehabilitating the buildings as display spaces
[00:03:44.410]for art that could be installed
[00:03:46.321]basically in perpetuity, unlike a traditional art museum
[00:03:50.220]that switches exhibitions in and out quickly,
[00:03:54.710]he also understood this space
[00:03:57.560]as both a social, a place for social gathering
[00:04:01.900]and an ecological kind of hub of the region.
[00:04:07.080]Since it's so close to the US/Mexico border
[00:04:09.360]I also had a chance to observe
[00:04:11.601]the ways that art, ecology, and politics overlay
[00:04:16.300]sometimes in really dynamic and complicated ways.
[00:04:19.290]So my first book, which I'm finishing right now
[00:04:22.190]is on history's of how artists in the 1960's and 70's
[00:04:27.650]began thinking seriously about the environment
[00:04:31.300]as a phenomenon.
[00:04:32.800]So I studied graphic visualizations
[00:04:35.680]of artworks that were made out of the earth itself,
[00:04:39.340]like these map-like projections that you can see
[00:04:41.950]by Robert Morris.
[00:04:43.640]Featured in the book also are performances
[00:04:46.900]that reveal the ways that almost all of the materials
[00:04:51.180]and objects we use on a daily basis
[00:04:53.880]have been extracted from the earth
[00:04:56.490]or poison the environment in some way.
[00:05:01.150]So there's a lot of historical research too
[00:05:03.290]about histories of corporations
[00:05:06.200]and their role in extending settler/colonialist ideas
[00:05:11.050]of you know, domination and extraction.
[00:05:14.610]And currently, this kind of work
[00:05:19.090]is extending to an exhibition that I'm curating called
[00:05:22.100]The Nature of Waste: Material Pathways, Discarded Worlds.
[00:05:26.960]And that's true I think, because it's at
[00:05:28.985]The Sheldon Museum of Art
[00:05:30.540]which is our university art museum here.
[00:05:33.220]And it draws from the collection
[00:05:35.310]and explores all kinds of approaches to reusability
[00:05:40.160]and renew-ability that were invented by artists themselves.
[00:05:44.030]So this isn't necessarily you know, a doom and gloom
[00:05:47.380]kind of causal investigation
[00:05:49.900]into why we find ourselves in the situation that we are.
[00:05:53.600]Although, it does touch on those things.
[00:05:56.260]But it's really also a way of revealing how artists
[00:06:00.060]present tactics and approaches
[00:06:02.840]that are reparative in some way.
[00:06:05.770]That illuminate new ideas and present new possibilities.
[00:06:10.230]And so I'm going to pass the microphone now
[00:06:13.490]to you Ann, and you'll probably...
[00:06:17.360]I don't know what's on here
[00:06:18.470]so it will be an adventure, but I'm into those.
[00:06:22.840]Well first let me just say
[00:06:24.320]what a delight and an honor to be with you three
[00:06:27.370]on this panel.
[00:06:28.720]I just, I just love this
[00:06:32.220]intersection of our worlds
[00:06:33.870]and so I'm so delighted
[00:06:36.000]especially after our Zoom.
[00:06:40.060]My work has sort of took me
[00:06:43.120]from being an educator, and I don't,
[00:06:45.860]I'm just gonna give this back to you.
[00:06:47.530]Oh sure.
[00:06:48.363]And if there's pictures up there
[00:06:50.260]you can just scroll through.
[00:06:54.680]But I started off as an elementary school teacher
[00:06:58.710]and at that time, my worlds were quite separate.
[00:07:02.260]My outdoor world and my educational world.
[00:07:05.720]And I had an opportunity to join a team
[00:07:10.620]of seven men and 49 male dogs
[00:07:12.910]up in the Arctic Ocean.
[00:07:14.800]And it was, for me, it was a dream come true.
[00:07:18.690]I was a strange kid, and I'm a strange adult.
[00:07:22.610]I dreamt at a very early age of around 10 years of age
[00:07:27.310]to go to the top and the bottom of the world.
[00:07:30.781]My parents encouraged me
[00:07:32.500]but I don't think they really thought I was gonna do it.
[00:07:35.340]And this opportunity to interview
[00:07:37.880]for a place on a team showed up
[00:07:41.270]and instantly something stirred within
[00:07:43.640]that said, as afraid as I was of the opportunity
[00:07:48.890]and my perceived ability to do this
[00:07:53.260]I knew instantly, it was like a visceral reaction
[00:07:56.920]that if I didn't try
[00:07:59.010]I would forever regret it.
[00:08:02.450]So I interviewed and I found myself on this team
[00:08:05.700]with seven men and 49 male dogs.
[00:08:07.560]I never lead anybody, I love that line.
[00:08:10.680]So I've been using it for 35 years.
[00:08:12.560]But when I came home from this trip
[00:08:16.370]after standing at the top of the world
[00:08:18.210]I went back immediately to my little K-8 community
[00:08:23.037]and that community of kindergartners through 8th graders
[00:08:28.470]and my colleagues had made the Arctic alive.
[00:08:31.980]And it wasn't just them following our trip,
[00:08:35.010]and this is before you could get on a satellite phone
[00:08:37.860]or the internet, Al Gore hadn't invented it yet.
[00:08:42.669]You know, there was no means of communication.
[00:08:44.930]We didn't even have a GPS, we traveled,
[00:08:47.250]we navigated by sextant, the old world way.
[00:08:50.970]And I walked into this little community
[00:08:55.720]that I had left a year earlier,
[00:08:58.290]there was art on the walls, they were reciting poetry,
[00:09:03.010]songs, the Arctic was alive in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
[00:09:08.740]And in this inner city school.
[00:09:11.500]And I realized at that moment
[00:09:13.940]that I could be a teacher outside of the four walls.
[00:09:16.880]And I could touch on subjects
[00:09:18.960]that weren't necessarily mine, that I loved
[00:09:22.100]that I was interested in.
[00:09:23.540]Which, that intersection of everything from art to math
[00:09:27.770]to science, and I vowed to myself at that point
[00:09:32.940]that if I ever did another large public expedition
[00:09:36.740]that I would do something bigger
[00:09:38.170]than my own personal ambition.
[00:09:40.870]And so my work, from then on
[00:09:43.530]I never went back in the formal classroom.
[00:09:45.410]I just, my head was in the sky.
[00:09:48.390]I launched an all women's trip to Antarctica
[00:09:52.040]and it just rolled out from there.
[00:09:53.690]It was one trip after another
[00:09:55.180]but they all had education.
[00:09:59.192]That was really my mission and my purpose.
[00:10:02.100]And how that purpose and passion
[00:10:05.840]collided with each other
[00:10:07.200]in the most wonderful and powerful way.
[00:10:10.580]And I've been doing that ever since.
[00:10:12.930]I've held true to the promise
[00:10:17.210]and it has allowed for me to
[00:10:21.350]share these journeys in lots of different ways
[00:10:24.820]that I hope we get to touch on today,
[00:10:26.840]is the ways in which we can utilize stories
[00:10:32.100]and imagery to captivate.
[00:10:35.870]It may not be something you want to do
[00:10:38.140]as weird as I am
[00:10:40.540]to go you know, literally to these places.
[00:10:43.730]But through a variety of types of imagery
[00:10:47.510]we can visit them.
[00:10:49.350]And then we can start to care about them
[00:10:51.150]and we can engage, and we can talk about
[00:10:54.650]absolutely everything that happens in our world.
[00:10:58.300]Everybody thinks what I do is unworldly,
[00:11:00.850]it's out of this world.
[00:11:02.420]But what happens on an expedition
[00:11:04.290]happens in life.
[00:11:06.220]And so the metaphors are very useful for me
[00:11:11.440]where I spend most of my time in this environment.
[00:11:14.900]You know, in the real world, as it were.
[00:11:19.290]So the stories for me are a way to continue to teach,
[00:11:23.060]a way to be an activist,
[00:11:26.140]a way to talk about topics that are really important to me.
[00:11:32.040]But in a way that, I try and find ways
[00:11:35.010]that are accessible in terms of entry point
[00:11:38.570]for lots of different kinds of people.
[00:11:41.020]Even though I have curriculum
[00:11:42.730]and it's typically kindergarten through 12th grade,
[00:11:46.225]our latest projects around water, around the world
[00:11:50.690]goes into college campuses
[00:11:53.150]but it's, my audience is really five to 95.
[00:11:58.420]And so it has to have entry points for everyone.
[00:12:03.450]And it's a joy.
[00:12:04.452]The project that I'm currently involved in
[00:12:06.990]is around water
[00:12:08.170]and it's a multi-year project
[00:12:10.830]and I think we'll talk more about that
[00:12:12.350]as we go forward.
[00:12:13.580]But that's kinda what I'm up to now.
[00:12:15.770]Yeah, and that dovetails perfectly I think
[00:12:18.946]into your work Jess, which involves water.
[00:12:22.490]I mean, you're the scientist among us.
[00:12:25.000]We'd love to hear from you as well.
[00:12:27.450]Right, yes, so I study lakes and streams.
[00:12:30.820]I'm a limnologist.
[00:12:33.160]And I'm gonna talk a little bit about
[00:12:35.690]some of the activities that I have going on
[00:12:38.090]right now in my lab here at UNL.
[00:12:42.340]So, as many of you may know
[00:12:45.040]we have water quality problems in this state.
[00:12:47.690]You know, it could be that you haven't been able
[00:12:49.600]to go swimming in a lake this summer
[00:12:51.880]that you wanted to, or last summer
[00:12:54.680]because of an algae bloom or cyanobacterial bloom.
[00:12:59.300]These are called different terms,
[00:13:01.209]they're called blue-green algae, HABS, harmful algal blooms.
[00:13:05.180]The correct term is cyanobacterial bloom
[00:13:06.820]but if you've heard any of those
[00:13:08.580]you know what I'm talking about.
[00:13:09.620]And it's that pea soup green color of a lake
[00:13:13.200]making it unsafe.
[00:13:15.330]But there are other water quality problems as well.
[00:13:18.600]We have nitrate contamination across the US
[00:13:22.450]that has unfortunately, really dire consequences
[00:13:27.450]when it ends up in our drinking water.
[00:13:29.760]And so that's another sort of context
[00:13:34.170]to why thinking about water quality problems in Nebraska
[00:13:37.580]is of importance.
[00:13:39.380]And it sort of comes down to the fact
[00:13:41.110]that we use fertilizer to grow more food
[00:13:45.020]and we like that nitrogen and phosphorus in our fields
[00:13:48.300]but it doesn't stay there
[00:13:49.698]and it ends up in our waterways
[00:13:51.580]and can cause really dire issues.
[00:13:55.090]And that's where my research comes into play
[00:13:58.360]is understanding how that nitrogen and phosphorus
[00:14:00.870]moves across the environment.
[00:14:03.910]And so when I came here
[00:14:08.550]there was another really big event that happened.
[00:14:11.460]You may recall in March 2019, right around spring break
[00:14:17.440]it rained, and it rained on snow
[00:14:19.690]it rained on frozen ground
[00:14:21.120]and that water had nowhere to go
[00:14:23.210]but into the rivers, into our lakes
[00:14:25.970]and it caused massive flooding
[00:14:27.490]that's still, you know, in November of that same year
[00:14:31.260]water levels were still really high.
[00:14:33.760]And so I've been trying to incorporate
[00:14:35.640]this question of you know, how is our climate changing
[00:14:38.070]how is that amplifying these signals of
[00:14:40.530]where the nutrients are moving into our landscape.
[00:14:44.350]So here's an overhead shot around Omaha
[00:14:47.880]where you know, this is before the event in March 2019
[00:14:52.460]and then shortly thereafter right,
[00:14:55.050]just an incredible enlargement of the rivers
[00:15:00.000]in that area.
[00:15:01.670]And so of course, this is gonna have implications
[00:15:03.550]for how these rivers function
[00:15:04.830]and how these streams function.
[00:15:07.270]So a couple of the questions that we've been working on
[00:15:09.980]is you know, are streams in Nebraska,
[00:15:12.070]are they just moving nutrients across the landscape
[00:15:14.410]or are the organisms within those waters
[00:15:17.660]taking up those nutrients
[00:15:18.880]and helping to slow down those, that movement?
[00:15:21.880]And if they're not, how can we better manage
[00:15:24.530]our water resources so they can do that?
[00:15:27.307]And so just to kinda quickly breeze
[00:15:29.030]through some of the work of students in my lab,
[00:15:32.110]I had a great masters student, Brittany Davis
[00:15:35.170]who was really interested in this land/water connection
[00:15:38.380]and she built these, basically sprinklers
[00:15:41.961]on the side of the stream
[00:15:43.730]to mimic that process
[00:15:45.520]and see what happens to the streams and the rivers.
[00:15:48.550]Another student, Alexa Davis
[00:15:50.450]went around to streams all across Nebraska in 2018
[00:15:54.710]to look at land-use effects on the streams.
[00:15:57.750]And then after the flood, it was sort of that eureka moment.
[00:16:00.310]Oh, we gotta go back to those streams.
[00:16:01.810]We gotta take advantage of this really big impact
[00:16:04.040]and see what's going on in those waterways.
[00:16:06.350]And so she went out there
[00:16:07.330]and did her same experiments again
[00:16:08.870]to better understand what was happening.
[00:16:11.355]And then I have another project in the Niobrara River
[00:16:15.560]where we're looking at recreational impacts on those waters.
[00:16:20.610]And how well it's being managed.
[00:16:24.689]And then a couple new projects that are just starting up
[00:16:27.410]is a partnership out in Scotts Bluff
[00:16:29.770]where we're combining new technology
[00:16:33.710]to study water quality
[00:16:35.530]with some data visualizations.
[00:16:37.880]So a graph that, really you're not supposed to read at all
[00:16:42.210]but it's just an example of this web application
[00:16:44.170]that we'll hopefully have up and running sometime soon
[00:16:47.340]lead by my student, Anni.
[00:16:49.750]And then another project, taking advantage
[00:16:52.560]of the vast data that are out there
[00:16:54.460]about aquatic ecosystems,
[00:16:56.480]bringing those together
[00:16:57.530]also bringing people with their you know,
[00:16:59.758]a lot of different perspectives on environmental science
[00:17:05.880]together to answer some really awesome questions
[00:17:08.500]about basic biology, ecology, and bringing it back
[00:17:12.130]to these water quality questions.
[00:17:14.250]And that's a project that I have with Katie as well here
[00:17:16.760]on the panel.
[00:17:17.593]And so yeah, it's really awesome
[00:17:21.500]to think about these climate questions too
[00:17:23.720]from this perspective, not just of science
[00:17:25.660]where I'm going out there and gathering data
[00:17:27.670]and doing experiments
[00:17:28.840]but also how do we communicate it
[00:17:31.500]to a broader audience.
[00:17:33.760]And I will pass it on.
[00:17:37.780]Thank you.
[00:17:39.110]So I'm working on a project called Meat, Meet, Mete
[00:17:43.470]and this is my take on picturing disaster
[00:17:46.560]using photography, and maybe an opportunity
[00:17:49.390]to address climate emergency in the natural world.
[00:17:53.720]So, what is the role of images in the change
[00:17:56.480]of our climate?
[00:17:57.630]My work tends to examine links between art,
[00:18:00.450]graphic design, visual communications, identity,
[00:18:03.970]and social engagement.
[00:18:05.890]The point of being here
[00:18:06.860]is to try to figure out new models
[00:18:08.730]for creating conversations about the environment
[00:18:11.360]using photography, pictorial language
[00:18:14.000]and graphic design.
[00:18:15.750]My work poses questions about well being,
[00:18:18.640]the environment, and society.
[00:18:21.180]It's a lot to do with the ecology of Nebraska.
[00:18:25.410]So I'm a fifth generation Nebraskan.
[00:18:28.030]My heritage settled on the Elkhorn River in 1867
[00:18:32.160]and lived in a dugout right along the river
[00:18:34.550]for a year before building a home.
[00:18:37.360]I love Nebraska, and I love the natural resources
[00:18:40.070]and the opportunities to be outside.
[00:18:43.060]And of course, all the foods and cattle
[00:18:45.860]and land and care that happens in Nebraska.
[00:18:50.750]I'm also a recipient of newspaper clippings each week
[00:18:54.360]by my mother, who scours the Lincoln Journal Star
[00:18:58.440]and the Omaha World Herald
[00:18:59.550]and sends me articles that relate to environment.
[00:19:03.030]And occasionally, there's a hopeful bit of news there.
[00:19:06.380]And I'm also really interested in photo montage
[00:19:10.660]as a form of graphic design.
[00:19:13.500]Being able to take disparate images
[00:19:16.310]and put them together, juxtapose them
[00:19:18.530]in order to create something new.
[00:19:20.540]And this device for creating visuals
[00:19:23.260]has been around for a while.
[00:19:24.910]The image on the left is Hannah Hoch
[00:19:27.250]who made images in the Dada movement
[00:19:30.310]at the turn of the century
[00:19:31.770]by cutting you know, things out of popular culture magazines
[00:19:35.440]and things that were accessible to the public.
[00:19:39.220]And Emory Douglas, who is the artist
[00:19:40.950]for the Black Panther Party
[00:19:42.070]also used collage or photo montage
[00:19:44.530]in order to grab materials that were accessible
[00:19:48.727]and represent them to speak about the urgency
[00:19:51.820]of a situation.
[00:19:53.370]But my project is really about exploring
[00:19:55.470]the cost of eating meat.
[00:19:57.550]So the mete, as in M-E-T-E
[00:20:00.030]is about measuring and understanding
[00:20:02.870]you know, the scale and the volume
[00:20:05.370]and the weight, and impact.
[00:20:08.170]It's also about getting together,
[00:20:10.720]meeting up, having a social experience
[00:20:13.913]centered around delicious chicken or turkey
[00:20:17.700]or a piece of meat.
[00:20:19.880]So it's an opportunity to come together
[00:20:22.270]and this is a little twist,
[00:20:24.090]where the participants at this dinner table
[00:20:26.300]are kind of measuring their meat
[00:20:28.470]by photographing it and documenting it
[00:20:30.890]with their iPhones
[00:20:32.150]which I think Norman Rockwell might appreciate that.
[00:20:35.300]Also, food democracy is a topic I'm interested in.
[00:20:38.940]And you know, who gets to eat healthy food
[00:20:41.270]and how accessible is it
[00:20:43.210]and you know, it's a human right that we have healthy food
[00:20:46.260]and water to drink.
[00:20:48.420]So trends are changing
[00:20:50.040]and I think we eat a whole lot more meat
[00:20:53.230]than we used to.
[00:20:54.180]It used to be a special you know, Sunday dinner
[00:20:56.830]to have a chicken or a roast beef
[00:20:58.570]but now it seems to be a lot more of a daily thing.
[00:21:03.150]Eating meat takes a lot of water.
[00:21:04.840]I think it's guesstimated
[00:21:06.270]that a pound of meat is about 17, 1,800 gallons of water
[00:21:10.630]to process it.
[00:21:12.042]So what is the role of these images
[00:21:14.990]and what is the scale and impact
[00:21:17.174]of putting meat on the table?
[00:21:19.270]So thinking about meat,
[00:21:21.170]you know, causes a lot of concern to me
[00:21:22.960]because I don't understand the magnitude of agriculture
[00:21:26.650]and I don't understand all of the details
[00:21:28.910]in what it takes to process a chicken,
[00:21:31.930]a sheep, a cow, et cetera.
[00:21:33.600]But it seems like there's a lot of things that happen
[00:21:35.910]and then a lot of things are sort of spit out at the end.
[00:21:40.190]And I'm interested in that.
[00:21:41.610]And I want to understand the scale
[00:21:44.090]of this food production
[00:21:45.300]in the form of protein rich meat.
[00:21:47.786]So these circulars that come in the mail every week
[00:21:50.930]are usually known as detritus.
[00:21:52.870]Hopefully they end up in the recycling.
[00:21:55.050]But usually they just get sort of looked at
[00:21:58.016]maybe people analyze them and make their grocery lists.
[00:22:01.552]I tend to cut out the meats.
[00:22:04.820]I spend a lot of time weekly chopping these out
[00:22:08.640]because it sort of is comforting to me.
[00:22:10.890]Some people clip coupons, I clip the cuts of meat.
[00:22:14.537]I've been doing this for over six years
[00:22:17.080]and I have a whole lot of materials
[00:22:20.170]to do photo collage and storytelling.
[00:22:22.940]So it's kind of a way for me to you know,
[00:22:25.550]find comfort in it knowing that I'm doing something
[00:22:28.210]with this circular that would go in the trash
[00:22:31.180]but also harvesting these
[00:22:33.060]has given me a lot of pleasure
[00:22:35.250]because I can sort of tinker around
[00:22:37.100]with creating these odd compositions
[00:22:39.430]and figuring out what one cut next to the other
[00:22:42.460]could relate to a relationship
[00:22:44.560]or create a sort of being.
[00:22:47.194]Oftentimes, they're on my table on butcher paper
[00:22:50.570]and I spend time kinda sorting through
[00:22:52.510]and figuring out, and I love to organize
[00:22:54.780]and put the chickens in the chicken tray
[00:22:56.660]and the beefs and the other, et cetera.
[00:22:59.200]But I've accumulated a lot of these
[00:23:01.170]so I think it's fun to have some kind of opportunity
[00:23:05.090]to collaborate with people
[00:23:07.150]to meet up to talk about meat
[00:23:09.640]and let's measure or meter our own meat consumption.
[00:23:14.760]And I like to play with use,
[00:23:17.090]things that are sort of useless.
[00:23:19.110]For example, these Pantone cards
[00:23:21.292]that we had for this particular workshop
[00:23:24.390]at Duke University
[00:23:25.810]were the ones that nobody wanted you know?
[00:23:28.200]They weren't the bright colored ones
[00:23:29.660]that said cheery things.
[00:23:30.620]They were kind of the dreary ones that weren't so great.
[00:23:34.150]So it was fun to ask participants
[00:23:36.550]to try to match a cut of meat
[00:23:38.670]to the Pantone color
[00:23:39.840]which is a color system designers use.
[00:23:42.220]And let's see if we can make a landscape
[00:23:44.750]or what comes out of it
[00:23:46.890]when we juxtapose one thing next to another.
[00:23:51.610]So collaborative storytelling and photo collage
[00:23:54.220]is really fun.
[00:23:55.410]And some of the things that came out of it talked,
[00:23:58.260]were us talking about meat and identity
[00:24:00.890]and our own consumption
[00:24:02.690]about great stories we had, about that roast
[00:24:05.660]that turned out beautifully and enjoyed,
[00:24:08.494]and how great we might feel after a delicious steak
[00:24:12.300]and what you know, what our bodies do.
[00:24:15.360]But we also talked about desire you know?
[00:24:17.640]The adoring and really loving you know,
[00:24:20.980]a big juicy steak.
[00:24:22.897]We talked about concern.
[00:24:24.930]We also started to insert something in to suggest scale.
[00:24:29.350]And by putting this sort of sad figure
[00:24:31.520]on its side
[00:24:32.710]it sort of brought that story forward.
[00:24:35.450]We also came together and managed to find a little humor
[00:24:38.530]in the process as well.
[00:24:40.690]But dialog was really what came out of that
[00:24:43.280]and I thought that was a great opportunity
[00:24:45.210]to really talk about meat
[00:24:47.150]and its impact on the landscape.
[00:24:49.150]So meat and planetary health,
[00:24:51.020]measuring the impact of meat
[00:24:52.960]storytelling, understanding the land
[00:24:55.720]labor, capital, natural resources
[00:24:58.140]food production, we don't want to think about
[00:25:00.680]you know, the story of the chicken
[00:25:02.480]going from cradle to grave
[00:25:04.330]and the life that it lives.
[00:25:06.747]But I want to think about this $4.99 rotisserie chicken
[00:25:11.389]that I hear stories of, that it's being processed
[00:25:14.350]very near us today.
[00:25:16.230]And the scale of that.
[00:25:17.780]And the scale of processing meat
[00:25:19.520]and organizing meat manufacturing
[00:25:22.810]is sort of important to Nebraska
[00:25:25.480]and has a long history of that
[00:25:27.340]as shown here with the Omaha stock yards.
[00:25:30.300]But I'm interested in a plant
[00:25:33.120]that is very near the Platte River
[00:25:35.520]that does a tremendous volume of processing meat.
[00:25:40.460]This beautiful river, the Platte
[00:25:42.030]is right near, and I'd like the opportunity
[00:25:45.080]to visualize the environment a little bit with everyone.
[00:25:48.520]You know, Nebraska is sitting on the aquifer
[00:25:50.520]which is this wonderful body of water.
[00:25:53.110]Nebraska has a fragile system right underneath it.
[00:25:57.793]But we also have a lot of sort of slaughterhouses
[00:26:02.020]and meat processing that happens in Nebraska.
[00:26:04.850]And most of those slaughterhouses
[00:26:07.290]are located quite near waterways.
[00:26:10.970]So we're also you know, constantly looking at drought
[00:26:14.460]because we have that ability to check on the drought monitor
[00:26:18.040]and see that we are really you know, already
[00:26:21.040]kind of nervous about water.
[00:26:22.770]So a great portion of the land in the US
[00:26:25.040]is reserved for livestock
[00:26:26.670]and also the food that livestock eats.
[00:26:29.992]There's even you know, a movement now
[00:26:32.550]to even say maybe we should think about plant based meat.
[00:26:35.960]And this is the hopeful side of things.
[00:26:38.390]Is that people like Bill Gates
[00:26:39.900]are kinda taking a step forward
[00:26:41.880]to talk about fake meat, or fake burgers, et cetera.
[00:26:48.180]Okay, also the Impossible Burger.
[00:26:51.240]These are plant based
[00:26:52.650]and I think that's kind of a hopeful thing
[00:26:54.870]that these fast food restaurants
[00:26:57.010]are offering plant based alternatives.
[00:27:00.000]But there's still that $4.99 rotisserie chicken
[00:27:02.900]that is engineered to be exactly 5.25 pounds.
[00:27:06.350]It is the number one go-to entry
[00:27:09.080]for an entree for a one family dinner.
[00:27:12.370]And hey, this feeds a family.
[00:27:14.940]But it reminds you that it takes a couple
[00:27:17.320]you know, thousand gallons of water
[00:27:18.880]to produce one pound of meat.
[00:27:21.140]So you know, feeding a family is a great thing
[00:27:24.110]and I think this cognitive dissonance
[00:27:26.150]about what do we give, and what takes
[00:27:28.620]in order to make that happen
[00:27:30.370]is something I'm interested in.
[00:27:32.120]So the chicken processing is very near the Platte River.
[00:27:35.860]Two million chickens are processed a week
[00:27:39.740]and that's a lot of chickens
[00:27:41.710]that are coming out of that facility.
[00:27:44.660]And that's 104 million chickens a year
[00:27:47.100]that get divided out
[00:27:48.610]and go across to the US and beyond
[00:27:51.110]to a certain distribution site.
[00:27:54.380]So along with 104 million chickens a year
[00:27:57.250]that also means 104 million plastic containers
[00:28:00.280]and a lot of energy to keep them heated
[00:28:02.850]and to cook them, all of that.
[00:28:05.240]So just the scale of it is a little astonishing to me
[00:28:08.660]so I wanted to make some stories
[00:28:10.460]and I wanted to see how simple those stories could be.
[00:28:13.430]Could just a couple rotisserie chickens
[00:28:15.377]and a couple lines suggest a horizon?
[00:28:18.230]And a landscape?
[00:28:19.560]Could it suggest a little mountain range
[00:28:22.370]or maybe icebergs or some kind of structure
[00:28:26.030]in the landscape that is no longer natural
[00:28:28.574]or might even be imposing something harmful
[00:28:31.960]onto the landscape.
[00:28:33.340]And then started playing around
[00:28:34.800]with putting in clip art, more clip art.
[00:28:37.960]Taking things from nature to suggest that.
[00:28:41.350]So the characters really are the signs of nature.
[00:28:44.980]And I had this thought, when I was collaborating
[00:28:47.210]with a few slides during a workshop
[00:28:50.130]about land cultivation and care,
[00:28:52.120]I was sharing my Google slides
[00:28:53.590]and somebody said, "Why don't you try
[00:28:55.694]to see if the natural world could retaliate
[00:28:58.950]against these giant chicken mountains
[00:29:01.986]and why don't you start placing clip art
[00:29:04.830]of natural things into it
[00:29:07.270]and maybe that could sort of extend the conversation
[00:29:10.010]about nature trying to sort of fight back
[00:29:12.770]or perform a defense against the giant chicken mountains."
[00:29:17.660]So really, when the chickens are just there by themselves
[00:29:20.170]they tell one story
[00:29:21.180]but when you start adding a line
[00:29:22.970]or maybe a little bit of watercolor
[00:29:25.210]and mirroring some plant material
[00:29:28.900]you can get a different story.
[00:29:30.610]So picturing disaster, you know,
[00:29:32.520]I mentioned the plant is very near the river.
[00:29:35.560]And Jess has already also shared with us
[00:29:38.590]that the disaster of the flood of 2019
[00:29:41.120]and how close that is to this plant at this time.
[00:29:45.840]And satellite images show
[00:29:47.830]that Platte River, that is just west of the location
[00:29:50.980]and how close that is to that million chicken plant as well.
[00:29:57.480]So I love the Nebraska landscape and the rivers.
[00:30:01.310]I grew up on the Platte, I've had a lot of fun playing
[00:30:03.720]in the Elkhorn and the Platte.
[00:30:05.700]And I sort of want to figure out a way
[00:30:08.520]that I can intersect the images of the river
[00:30:11.250]that are capturable
[00:30:12.760]with images of these chickens.
[00:30:14.350]And this came out of that collaboration
[00:30:16.470]where I had this slide up
[00:30:17.980]and they started to say well what if you mirrored them
[00:30:20.970]and composited them,
[00:30:22.132]and maybe you change some color
[00:30:24.040]to sort of think about being kind of toxic
[00:30:27.220]or changing the landscape.
[00:30:28.670]And these weird little chicken cave areas
[00:30:31.490]started to show up
[00:30:32.480]and that was just by tinkering around
[00:30:34.690]with someone else on the Google slide.
[00:30:36.938]I took a picture of this beautiful scene
[00:30:39.450]of the Platte River
[00:30:40.283]that was on my way to the dentist's office.
[00:30:42.100]It was framed in the hallway.
[00:30:43.860]And then I just started overlaying
[00:30:45.640]some of the chicken mountains on top of it
[00:30:47.440]to sort of suggest this surreal world
[00:30:50.760]that doesn't quite look healthy.
[00:30:52.920]That maybe it looks hopeful
[00:30:54.390]or maybe there is a different alternative.
[00:30:57.460]But my goal is to keep Nebraska beautiful.
[00:31:04.550]Great.
[00:31:05.670]Well this is so, it's really incredible
[00:31:09.160]how we've all been lead through a different horizon line
[00:31:13.200]in the way that our work comes together.
[00:31:16.080]Whether it's the disruption of the chicken
[00:31:20.030]and everything that it takes to make the chicken
[00:31:22.390]or these brutal and vast, and really beautiful spaces
[00:31:26.970]of the Arctic
[00:31:27.803]which means different things to different people.
[00:31:30.850]The flow of rivers and what that actually does physically.
[00:31:35.420]I mean, from the poetics of that
[00:31:37.770]it feels, it feels appropriate to then ask
[00:31:41.470]what attracted you to the work
[00:31:43.520]that you're doing specifically?
[00:31:46.140]What tools and approaches have been your guide?
[00:31:49.110]You know, what inspires you
[00:31:51.360]in arranging all of this together
[00:31:54.440]and bringing the people together that you do?
[00:31:57.370]Ann?
[00:31:58.203]You're gonna turn to me?
[00:31:59.172](Katie laughing)
[00:32:00.890]Would love to.
[00:32:02.910]I think, initially when I thought about that question
[00:32:07.640]I just feel like, you know, I've been so privileged
[00:32:10.540]to travel to these remarkable places
[00:32:13.810]that for me, you know,
[00:32:19.140]they can be harsh environments
[00:32:20.560]but they can also be incredibly,
[00:32:23.960]they are incredibly beautiful
[00:32:25.840]and once you figure out how to exist within them.
[00:32:31.370]And so I wanted to share them.
[00:32:34.568]And so I was drawn to this
[00:32:37.430]not by a specific, well I guess it's similar.
[00:32:41.356]You know, in terms of you wanted to keep Nebraska beautiful
[00:32:44.500]I you know, it was, these are places I love.
[00:32:48.430]And I want to protect them
[00:32:52.820]and I want others to experience them
[00:32:55.050]in a you know, way.
[00:32:56.450]So that's sort of my environment.
[00:32:59.320]I think what came out of, what has been evolving
[00:33:03.820]over the decades
[00:33:05.060]is they are also a,
[00:33:11.720]they're, whether they're stories
[00:33:17.250]about the expeditions
[00:33:18.600]or the magic of these places
[00:33:20.990]that so few get to go to
[00:33:23.990]that sort of draw people in,
[00:33:27.310]they have become really important
[00:33:34.840]backdrops, if you will.
[00:33:36.618]I'm struggling for what the lexicon is
[00:33:39.210]but backdrops for issues that have emerged for me over time.
[00:33:43.820]So in 1986 or '85
[00:33:46.930]I wasn't thinking about global warming,
[00:33:48.500]nobody heard about it.
[00:33:51.000]I was following a childhood dream
[00:33:53.110]of going to the top of the world.
[00:33:54.850]And I also wasn't thinking about women's issues.
[00:34:02.080]I was an elementary teacher
[00:34:03.320]and my environment was predominantly women.
[00:34:06.280]But when I immersed myself on the public stage
[00:34:11.210]not on you know, I had already been traveling
[00:34:14.190]predominantly with men and all of that
[00:34:17.100]so I knew about things.
[00:34:20.260]But my senses were heightened in this isolation,
[00:34:26.560]it's so interesting for me
[00:34:28.270]because I'm totally isolated
[00:34:30.690]and yet I'm learning about something
[00:34:33.390]in a very subtle, in a very subtle capacity
[00:34:36.990]about things back here
[00:34:38.270]in terms of opportunities for women
[00:34:42.050]and where the barriers exist.
[00:34:44.740]Because I wasn't, I was experiencing them
[00:34:47.310]in a very finite place
[00:34:49.350]and then I was free.
[00:34:50.480]But when I went to the North Pole as the only woman
[00:34:52.870]and then became the first known woman
[00:34:55.620]it just opened up a whole other arena
[00:34:58.130]that I felt compelled to speak about
[00:35:01.690]from my perspective.
[00:35:03.600]So issues have evolved, whether they're environmental issues
[00:35:07.250]or societal issues, it's you know,
[00:35:09.260]I tend, my family teases me because I punctuate
[00:35:15.310]my graph, as it were,
[00:35:17.554]if you visually put it out there
[00:35:22.039]where we are, from pole to pole
[00:35:25.280]or major expedition to major expedition
[00:35:28.080]because so much has changed.
[00:35:29.430]And you know, I just think of whether
[00:35:32.410]that's manifested itself in equipment,
[00:35:35.890]in environment and changing in subtle,
[00:35:38.760]and sometimes extreme ways
[00:35:40.990]that you get to visualize and experience.
[00:35:46.150]Societal norms, I mean in 1992
[00:35:49.210]when we went to the South Pole
[00:35:51.410]no sponsor would touch us.
[00:35:54.210]And we did it you know, we made bake sales
[00:35:57.050]and you know, we went by a grass roots movement.
[00:35:59.380]But we had no patches down our sleeves.
[00:36:01.970]Now it was one of the hardest things I've ever done
[00:36:03.890]but it was the most amazing lesson that I learned.
[00:36:07.950]And then from that, a commitment
[00:36:10.810]to continuing to pave the way for women coming up.
[00:36:14.270]In other fields, not my you know,
[00:36:16.472]my world is very small with people in general
[00:36:22.200]let alone women.
[00:36:23.180]So you become
[00:36:29.360]ignited I think, to things that are happening over time.
[00:36:34.930]And the work, I would say has remained the same.
[00:36:39.290]I still do expeditions with education
[00:36:43.830]and I would even say that to a great extent
[00:36:46.050]the topics are somewhat the same
[00:36:47.850]but they evolve and they deepen.
[00:36:51.470]And you find new ways to express yourself to others
[00:36:58.240]to try and bring more in.
[00:37:00.490]And you are, if you're around long enough
[00:37:04.350]you're lucky enough to look back and say
[00:37:06.880]you know, I can see that.
[00:37:08.390]So from a STEM perspective
[00:37:10.600]whenever I'm you know, I love to bring my gear.
[00:37:14.100]And you've got this giant radio
[00:37:16.890]and then you go from that to a GPS
[00:37:19.790]to a computer, to, and it all gets smaller
[00:37:23.010]and it gets solarly powered
[00:37:24.740]and suddenly you know?
[00:37:27.660]The visualization of those changes in 30 some years
[00:37:32.890]is even dramatic to me, and I lived it.
[00:37:35.160]But to see it, you know, and to pick up that gear
[00:37:39.020]and have kids particularly pick it up
[00:37:41.600]because they don't remember a time
[00:37:42.970]when they didn't have a computer or a phone.
[00:37:45.900]It impacts them in a very intimate way
[00:37:53.750]as opposed to reading about it,
[00:37:57.050]that's a good way too, but it's,
[00:37:59.580]you know, to have that, to create an experience
[00:38:03.630]and not be there
[00:38:05.360]is one of the things that I try and do
[00:38:08.990]through my interactions.
[00:38:11.890]And sometimes I'm lucky enough to be in the flesh
[00:38:15.827]and sometimes you know, it's remotely
[00:38:17.760]and sometimes it's writing a book or whatever.
[00:38:22.840]Or showing pictures.
[00:38:24.850]And trying to draw people in, again
[00:38:26.980]so that they can feel
[00:38:31.430]some of what I experience.
[00:38:33.420]One of the other things that I love to collaborate with
[00:38:37.083]is my musician friends.
[00:38:40.230]Because music can, is, it just goes into the emotion
[00:38:46.120]and can transport you around the globe
[00:38:49.170]in a way that sometimes the visuals can't you know?
[00:38:52.840]And it transcends language and culture.
[00:38:56.531]So merging these things all into a wonderful stew
[00:39:04.180]is really igniting for me
[00:39:07.960]and then figuring out with those collaborations
[00:39:12.380]where is it that we can actually
[00:39:17.240]figure out how we can make change, positive change.
[00:39:23.271]You know, I was just in a classroom with honor students
[00:39:26.290]which is very intimidating for me
[00:39:28.990]and one of the questions they asked you know,
[00:39:30.940]is what have you learned
[00:39:32.117]and what do you do.
[00:39:34.797]And that has evolved as well.
[00:39:36.720]And I said you know,
[00:39:38.090]I've been talking a lot about climate change
[00:39:41.150]since the early 2000's
[00:39:43.770]and that, even that conversation has changed so much.
[00:39:47.610]It was so vitriolic in the Arctic in '05 and '07.
[00:39:51.970]And we were a country, in particular
[00:39:55.050]that was so anti-science
[00:39:56.750]and just wanted to deny the whole thing.
[00:40:00.508]And we're up in the Arctic you know, having to swim suddenly
[00:40:05.860]in this frigid water
[00:40:07.190]and run away from a lot of polar bears.
[00:40:11.760]But over time, you know, we've evolved
[00:40:16.510]with this conversation
[00:40:18.150]and made some headway.
[00:40:20.070]It hasn't been, perhaps at the pace
[00:40:21.930]that most of us are happy about
[00:40:26.480]but I said, you know, where,
[00:40:28.060]I think my job as an educator is finding
[00:40:31.260]where is your sphere of influence?
[00:40:35.300]Because how do we, the challenge back in the early 2000's
[00:40:40.330]was it's so big and it's so complicated
[00:40:43.470]people just turn off.
[00:40:45.580]And how do we talk to kids about it?
[00:40:48.150]And I always say, well you talk to kids
[00:40:49.700]by being just straight on to them
[00:40:51.380]because you know, it's the best way.
[00:40:53.800]But I understood the questioning.
[00:40:56.670]So now my evolution about getting at some of that engagement
[00:41:04.310]is to say where is your sphere of influence today?
[00:41:11.600]Because there's always something we can do.
[00:41:15.787]And I go back to the story of,
[00:41:18.630]with my international team
[00:41:20.240]we were going down the Ganges River
[00:41:22.080]from tip to tail
[00:41:23.160]from the Himalayas to the sea.
[00:41:26.470]And we weren't there to solve the problems of the Ganges
[00:41:29.950]as an international group of women
[00:41:31.810]but we were to elevate the voices of women
[00:41:34.190]and to bring the conversation up a pitch.
[00:41:38.760]And talk about where we come from
[00:41:40.810]and the waterways in our regions.
[00:41:43.340]So for me, I live on the Mississippi,
[00:41:45.420]it's very similar to the Ganges.
[00:41:47.580]So I can, we can find common ground
[00:41:50.840]and talk about the challenges and the splendors, et cetera.
[00:41:55.290]But at the end of that two month journey
[00:41:57.570]which was you know, an explosion of the head and the heart
[00:42:01.520]in a wonderful way
[00:42:03.080]and so, the antithesis of Antarctica.
[00:42:08.390]I'm surrounded by populations of people.
[00:42:12.040]You know, somebody said well what did you learn
[00:42:14.010]and you know, how did it effect you?
[00:42:16.250]I said it moved molecules.
[00:42:18.660]That's the best way I can describe
[00:42:21.670]what camping down the Ganges was like for two months.
[00:42:27.200]And the thing that I learned
[00:42:30.010]in you know, in having those molecules moved around
[00:42:33.580]is that I can do better.
[00:42:36.450]I'm a liberal, privileged
[00:42:40.650]person who has been so lucky to travel
[00:42:42.980]some of the wildest parts of this globe
[00:42:45.070]and see such wonders.
[00:42:47.940]And also such hardship by humanity,
[00:42:51.440]imposed by humanity as well.
[00:42:53.560]And that was my lesson, and it feels so trite
[00:42:57.880]but it was so powerful.
[00:42:59.980]Because it was, what can I do better?
[00:43:02.300]And I always point to this
[00:43:03.900]because (chuckles) this is what I get offered.
[00:43:07.210]And of course, it's of no point you know?
[00:43:09.580]It's of no blame.
[00:43:11.870]But this is everywhere in the world.
[00:43:14.120]Yeah.
[00:43:15.660]And it brings up discussions of
[00:43:19.630]the companies that bottle it
[00:43:21.540]the recyclability of the bottle.
[00:43:23.970]But this is in every ditch in every country of the world
[00:43:27.350]including ours.
[00:43:29.160]And so it's, and it's my,
[00:43:33.240]and it's you know, it's my sphere of influence.
[00:43:35.870]This is why I hug this battle
[00:43:37.330]because you know, where's my water bottle?
[00:43:40.070]It's in the hotel room.
[00:43:41.560]And so I'm offered this.
[00:43:42.730]You know, but, and it's, and COVID,
[00:43:45.100]COVID has only exposed all of this even more starkly
[00:43:49.830]because the water fountains to go fill them
[00:43:52.420]or to go have a drink are now dead.
[00:43:54.630]Yes, yes.
[00:43:55.790]But it's also, to me, it's a conversation.
[00:44:00.420]And it's on so many levels.
[00:44:02.560]It's like your chicken, it's on so many levels.
[00:44:05.880]And it's deep and wide and fascinating.
[00:44:08.770]And we have to just keep having them
[00:44:12.090]and be brave enough to have these conversations.
[00:44:14.750]And so, and speaking of the movement of molecules
[00:44:18.680]which is something so beautiful, I'm gonna invoke it
[00:44:21.010]here and now, and hopefully forever.
[00:44:23.950]Jess and Stacy, you know, you
[00:44:26.560]the two of you work in fields
[00:44:28.470]that also have responded to shifts in public discourse
[00:44:32.320]around science, around technology
[00:44:34.950]around the degenerative thrust of technology
[00:44:40.640]especially in the last 15 years.
[00:44:42.430]So do you have thoughts about how your drive
[00:44:44.880]maybe has shifted or changed
[00:44:48.220]or how your tools have changed over time?
[00:44:51.440]I'm very curious.
[00:44:55.490]Sure, so I can't say that when,
[00:45:01.270]Ann, when you mentioned that you know,
[00:45:02.830]in the early 2000's,
[00:45:03.850]there was such this vitriol against science
[00:45:06.070]and I think those are some of my formative years
[00:45:10.180]in becoming a scientist.
[00:45:12.200]And I still expect that vitriol all the time.
[00:45:16.140]And so when I talk about my science
[00:45:18.680]I do try to like, sort of, like hedge it
[00:45:21.350]and not try to instigate that vitriol.
[00:45:23.380]And it's interesting to think
[00:45:24.680]because I hadn't thought that, you know,
[00:45:26.400]I had internalized it so much, but I have.
[00:45:34.520]The flip side though is that as a scientist
[00:45:37.230]I have certain ideas, hypotheses
[00:45:41.530]about how things are working in the system
[00:45:43.823]that I'm studying.
[00:45:44.910]And as a scientist, I also get to say
[00:45:47.470]how can I prove myself wrong?
[00:45:49.480]And so if I think nitrogen and phosphorus
[00:45:52.160]are causing an issue in a lake
[00:45:54.270]how can I prove myself wrong that they're not?
[00:45:56.470]You know, and how can I design an experiment
[00:45:58.330]that I test every single
[00:45:59.620]other alternative reasonable hypothesis
[00:46:02.930]so that you know, maybe I do prove myself wrong.
[00:46:05.840]And then, that's kind of a, that's a great thing
[00:46:07.980]when it happens.
[00:46:09.780]Or I don't, but either way
[00:46:10.970]I'm constantly able to learn.
[00:46:12.670]And so to me, I try to focus a lot on that learning
[00:46:17.530]and that discovery, and that saying you know,
[00:46:19.350]how can I better understand
[00:46:21.730]what is happening in our society
[00:46:24.110]so that the people that are making those choices
[00:46:26.180]whether it's someone deciding
[00:46:28.230]to open up the plastic bottle of water
[00:46:30.300]or someone regulating drinking water standards
[00:46:34.130]has the best information available to them.
[00:46:38.080]And that's how I, 'cause it can get very,
[00:46:41.330]it can get very sad, it can get very depressing
[00:46:43.330]when we think about how certain technologies
[00:46:46.950]and certain cultural practices
[00:46:48.450]have really lead to things
[00:46:51.860]that maybe aren't so great for different people.
[00:46:53.680]But you know, the better that we can understand those issues
[00:46:56.080]and better understand those trade-offs
[00:46:57.600]hopefully the better those conversations will be
[00:47:00.440]in the future.
[00:47:04.400]So I've been using graphic design
[00:47:06.760]or looking at design as a sort of,
[00:47:10.030]in particular, graphic design
[00:47:11.670]and the role that designers play
[00:47:13.760]in the production, promotion, and consumption of goods.
[00:47:17.310]And that impact on identity
[00:47:20.180]as well as the environment
[00:47:21.400]has been a focus of my creative activity
[00:47:23.410]for over 20 years.
[00:47:25.208]But I'm still trying to find a way
[00:47:27.410]to integrate science, philosophy, ecology
[00:47:31.490]and all other disciplines
[00:47:32.980]deeper into you know, just tinkering around
[00:47:36.170]with some collages,
[00:47:37.780]how can you know, those forms integrate
[00:47:40.700]on a deeper level
[00:47:41.810]that is sort of more than just creative things
[00:47:45.450]but actually messaging that could maybe shift
[00:47:49.460]patterns of behavior
[00:47:51.357]or influence some kind of change.
[00:47:57.200]Yeah, it also struck me
[00:48:00.720]listening to the three of you
[00:48:02.640]that one of my prime kind of,
[00:48:07.970]one of my prime like, areas of study is the 60's.
[00:48:12.960]And in many ways, this was a historical moment
[00:48:18.540]in which you could make much more strident
[00:48:22.540]and vocal, and even destructive arguments
[00:48:27.530]about who should be protected
[00:48:29.430]about the imminence of social collapse.
[00:48:32.470]And when I kind of bring some of these dialogs
[00:48:36.930]especially emerging dialogs about the environment
[00:48:39.880]you know, people are just starting to talk about
[00:48:43.390]Dow Chemical Company, and the ways
[00:48:45.420]that they made all of these products
[00:48:47.320]to improve daily life in the 1950's
[00:48:49.870]that then of course, surged into the production
[00:48:53.190]of napalm and other chemicals in the Vietnam War.
[00:48:58.130]It strikes me how liberating these things is
[00:49:01.630]and the ways that these conversations
[00:49:04.140]are so full of possibilities
[00:49:05.800]and how history, which feels like such a contested space
[00:49:12.690]can bring new ways of seeing
[00:49:14.950]into a new, you know, and new ways of making inquiry.
[00:49:19.140]I mean, I just finished writing
[00:49:21.800]about a performance artist
[00:49:23.810]who wrapped themselves in Reynolds Wrap
[00:49:27.290]as a you know, as a way to protest the fact
[00:49:31.300]that the ingredients of daily life
[00:49:34.670]come from the military industrial complex.
[00:49:38.840]And so, I always feel curious
[00:49:42.250]especially because we are becoming now a society
[00:49:46.770]where I think even the average 20 year old
[00:49:49.230]is pretty well acquainted with facts about climate change
[00:49:54.360]that what to do, and how to model what to do
[00:49:58.090]and how to speak about these things
[00:50:00.270]is also something that is a great place
[00:50:02.570]for pictures to contribute to.
[00:50:05.400]You know, that these, that the makers provide the models
[00:50:08.090]that the pictures provide the models.
[00:50:11.280]And so when you, I mean, I'm curious
[00:50:13.480]when you all approach storytelling in your work,
[00:50:15.970]when we begin to introduce these
[00:50:18.900]what would have been very controversial discussions
[00:50:21.750]maybe 15 years ago
[00:50:23.930]do you have approaches that you love?
[00:50:26.240]How do you approach storytelling?
[00:50:28.020]Maybe that can be our kinda departure question I guess.
[00:50:35.806](women chuckling)
[00:50:37.600]I could talk about the photo collage
[00:50:40.160]and you know I think putting some chickens together
[00:50:43.250]to make a gesture says something
[00:50:46.080]that you can't really put words to.
[00:50:48.310]And it also kind of subverts, you know, the story
[00:50:53.440]without saying it you know?
[00:50:55.110]You can kind of cleverly kind of poke fun
[00:50:58.290]or provoke ideas or thinking about things differently
[00:51:01.700]through that odd, abject, curious, grotesque thing
[00:51:05.960]that you may not really want to look at.
[00:51:11.700]I'll say that I lean heavily on my data right?
[00:51:15.710]To tell the story.
[00:51:17.300]But it isn't always the most effective way
[00:51:19.340]to tell a story, particularly when you're talking to someone
[00:51:22.080]that hasn't been thinking about that data
[00:51:24.370]for a very long time.
[00:51:25.590]And so I do try and relate as much as I can
[00:51:30.260]to pictures of what that data represents
[00:51:33.250]and also in collaborations with people
[00:51:35.810]that know how to tell stories better than I do.
[00:51:40.210]Yeah, I look at myself as a traditional storyteller.
[00:51:43.300]So it's interesting to listen to you two.
[00:51:49.721]But I trust in the story complicitly.
[00:51:53.320]Absolutely completely.
[00:51:58.360]Because when I'm trying to talk about something difficult
[00:52:01.260]whether it's climate change,
[00:52:03.280]when it's fairly new and scary to people
[00:52:08.450]or whatever, they can't get at it.
[00:52:11.750]Or gender issues, you know, sexism.
[00:52:17.220]I just, I let the imagery
[00:52:20.060]and the narrative do the talking.
[00:52:24.890]And it never fails me.
[00:52:28.910]Because I'm not lecturing, I'm not trying to convince
[00:52:33.000]I just, I tell the story
[00:52:35.570]and you can't quibble if it's that person's experience.
[00:52:40.490]It's sort of like, it's my data.
[00:52:42.210]Yeah.
[00:52:43.043]The other thing is,
[00:52:45.560]in terms of, at least bridging your world a little bit
[00:52:48.680]is in '05 and '07
[00:52:52.380]it was the international polar year
[00:52:54.270]so there was a lot of science from around the world
[00:52:57.390]focused on the polar icecaps, the Arctic.
[00:53:00.160]So Greenland, Alaska, Russia
[00:53:03.720]you know, just the whole polar circumference.
[00:53:07.780]And we went up there with our curriculum
[00:53:11.840]to do the expedition
[00:53:13.060]because we use it as a spark plug
[00:53:15.530]to get people's attention
[00:53:16.750]so then we can talk
[00:53:17.990]and disseminate the curriculum, et cetera.
[00:53:23.592]And on those two trips
[00:53:25.870]we deliberately partnered
[00:53:27.960]with scientists in the field, all around the world
[00:53:32.450]who were focusing on where we were,
[00:53:35.870]not specifically where we were headed always
[00:53:38.050]but they were in, they were talking about a topic
[00:53:41.400]and about a region of the world.
[00:53:44.950]And we thought we were doing a service
[00:53:47.530]for our students
[00:53:48.810]by connecting them to scientists in the field
[00:53:52.640]talking about the Arctic.
[00:53:54.210]And what is going on,
[00:53:56.370]and it could be particles in the clouds
[00:53:58.430]it could be the ice melt, you know, permafrost, whatever.
[00:54:02.780]It was so broad.
[00:54:04.650]They were from everywhere.
[00:54:06.810]And every week, you could sign up.
[00:54:08.990]And what happened was,
[00:54:10.457]and this is what I just love about education
[00:54:13.010]is you think, and expeditions, they're very similar
[00:54:16.130]is like, you think you know where you're going. (chuckling)
[00:54:19.450]And you have no idea where you're going.
[00:54:21.980]And where it takes you, and it's always spectacular.
[00:54:25.630]It was the scientists
[00:54:26.930]who actually were the most appreciative
[00:54:30.760]of the partnership
[00:54:32.090]because they love talking to this enthusiastic,
[00:54:37.380]curious audience, real time
[00:54:41.190]as real as it could be in '05 and '07.
[00:54:45.260]And answering questions, and we thought
[00:54:48.140]you know, are they gonna want to tear away from their work
[00:54:51.800]for a little bit to do this?
[00:54:53.110]But they were ignited, the way I'm ignited
[00:54:57.620]when I go into a classroom.
[00:54:59.030]And you just feed off of that energy.
[00:55:00.990]And so we think we're doing it for one reason.
[00:55:04.870]But that collaboration brought a whole nother pantheon
[00:55:09.779]of fantastic experiences.
[00:55:12.320]And so I don't know how that has anything to do with science
[00:55:17.320]but I mean, with stories
[00:55:18.580]but you know, they lead you to places
[00:55:20.930]and they help bridge you, I think
[00:55:26.900]especially to topics that are tough to get at.
[00:55:32.100]Because they're just, they're just easy experiences
[00:55:36.510]or raw experiences
[00:55:37.900]and you know, nobody, you can't get into that dialog
[00:55:41.530]if that is my experience, coming to you.
[00:55:45.360]And it says way more volumes than anything,
[00:55:49.240]if I sat up and talked about
[00:55:51.320]you know, sexism. (chuckling)
[00:55:53.230]All the men in the audience would head out the door
[00:55:55.560]you know, of a certain age.
[00:55:57.080]And you know, if you're talking about dogs
[00:56:00.560]and how you were edged out
[00:56:02.640]and you know, just letting a story tell its tale
[00:56:08.220]it starts to click.
[00:56:10.546]In its own pattern, in its own rhythm,
[00:56:13.760]in its own, it doesn't evolve necessarily
[00:56:18.430]you know, in a nanosecond.
[00:56:20.560]It can be an evolution as well
[00:56:22.950]to the learning.
[00:56:29.000]This is such a wonderful thing to be listening to
[00:56:32.960]because in, and I find that one of my professional thrusts
[00:56:37.020]is to interrogate stories, to interrogate histories.
[00:56:42.220]And it strikes me that these, that narrative
[00:56:46.480]in the way that you're describing it
[00:56:48.110]in the way that narrative is the thing
[00:56:50.560]that created the Me Too movement.
[00:56:52.830]You know, people speaking their truth in a public arena
[00:56:56.500]plainly, and without reservation.
[00:56:59.750]And the concept that no one's story
[00:57:03.870]is really a finished product
[00:57:05.900]or the end of, the end of the line.
[00:57:09.890]There's such a rich and interesting
[00:57:11.810]like, mutually informing relationship between those things.
[00:57:15.220]Between telling stories,
[00:57:17.350]especially as a graphic designer I imagine
[00:57:19.500]and then the critique of wait a second,
[00:57:22.250]who's story is this?
[00:57:23.870]Is this the settler colonial version of sustainability?
[00:57:28.750]That privileges preservation of the land
[00:57:31.810]that we've all already stolen
[00:57:33.440]and the land that we all sit on currently?
[00:57:36.770]So that feels, I don't know
[00:57:40.340]kind of full of potential for reflecting on
[00:57:44.130]in all of our professional practices too.
[00:57:46.920]That storytelling is this kind of
[00:57:52.160]constantly unfinished, like, eternally discursive
[00:57:57.000]always welcoming this sense of, yes but to itself.
[00:58:02.950]And I don't really know what
[00:58:03.783]that has to do with pictures actually.
[00:58:05.330]Except that I, myself am sort of addicted
[00:58:08.120]to talking about and asking questions of pictures
[00:58:11.970]and wanting to know more.
[00:58:13.400]I'll never think of chickens the same way again.
[00:58:15.430]Yes! Exactly!
[00:58:17.700]Exactly.
[00:58:19.090]I always think of the, sorry.
[00:58:20.948]Please.
[00:58:21.870]I just think of you know,
[00:58:23.110]when you were talking about imagery
[00:58:25.410]and I think of Greta Thunberg
[00:58:28.530]and that image of her sitting by herself
[00:58:31.760]with her cardboard sign.
[00:58:34.250]And what that created, you know, if that,
[00:58:36.531]you know, how that changed so much.
[00:58:40.100]And you could juxtapose a picture a year later
[00:58:44.900]with all the masked youth marches.
[00:58:48.710]But she's still sitting out there by herself by the way.
[00:58:51.240]Still, to this day.
[00:58:52.520]But it's a powerful image
[00:58:54.430]and it can make change in one frame.
[00:58:58.420]And tell a huge story.
[00:59:01.060]But that story, as you say
[00:59:02.660]is continuing to change and evolve.
[00:59:04.670]I know.
[00:59:05.810]And we all know her name.
[00:59:07.350]Yeah, and we all-
[00:59:09.720]And we all know what autism is.
[00:59:11.390]I mean, you know, so there's a whole nother extension
[00:59:14.520]to that narrative.
[00:59:17.680]That wasn't her intention.
[00:59:20.620]I think it's lovely.
[00:59:22.910]I want to work for her.
[00:59:24.204](women chuckling)
[00:59:25.860]Goals, #goals. (laughing)
[00:59:28.700]Future goals.
[00:59:30.200]Well, I think we're out of time
[00:59:31.670]but this feels like the perfect kind of set of ellipses
[00:59:35.350]to extend us really
[00:59:37.040]into other conversations, future conversations
[00:59:39.610]and Ann, we're just so pleased to have you on campus
[00:59:42.580]as our guest.
[00:59:43.640]Well thank you.
[00:59:44.473]And as an interlocutor.
[00:59:45.920]I could talk to you three all night.
[00:59:49.250]Well, yeah, maybe we'll linger
[00:59:51.640]after this kind of official platform closes.
[00:59:54.710]Thank you all everyone for tuning in
[00:59:56.610]and please enjoy your summer
[00:59:58.840]and we'll see you next year
[00:59:59.960]at the E.N Thompson Forum for World Issues.
[01:00:03.120]Thank you.
[01:00:04.126](upbeat music)

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