Serious Play Panel - Hixson-Lied Visiting Artists
School of Art, Art History & Design
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03/26/2021
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Description
Hixson-Lied Visiting Artists Panel
03/11/2021
SERIOUS PLAY: Radical Publications and Their Histories
Panel Speakers:
Sampada Aranke, Assistant Professor of Art History, School of the Art Institute of Chicago
Alexis Salas, Assistant Professor of Art History, New Mexico State University
Julia Neal, Lecturer in African American Art History, Georgia State University
Kieran Jack Wilson, photographer and activist, Lincoln, NE
As paper zines, signage, and print material continue to give form to the current set of global crises, this panel examines the new histories that emerge when we examine distributable print media in terms of crisis and social movements. How might we re-assess the history of twentieth-century print projects to account for the current return to experimental paper-based projects in the age of Black Lives Matter? And how might the dynamics of play--with its emphasis on participation, the detachment from professionalism, and the refusal of the serious-- lend itself to an expanded history of paper and design-based media in moments of critique? This panel will discuss historical examples of incisive, rageful, satirical, and even mocking visual forms on paper and bring them to bear on the networks of the present.
Searchable Transcript
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- [00:00:01.920]Katie Anania: we'll get started now everyone just in the interest of time, and thank you all so much for being here it's wonderful to see this beautiful grid of your faces.
- [00:00:11.880]Katie Anania: I am Katie Anania i'm assistant professor of Art History here at UNL, and this is an installment of the Hixson-Lied Lecture series, supported by the School of Art, Art History & Design at that same institution.
- [00:00:25.200]Katie Anania: tonight's panel is called serious play and i'll expand on it's semantics in a minute.
- [00:00:31.720]Katie Anania: But it's different from our customary format at our University of a longer monographic talk for the Hixson-Lied series instead will have three micro presentations of five minutes each.
- [00:00:43.600]Katie Anania: given by early career scholars of art history design media studies and performance theory, who are taking their respective fields in new directions and then a moderated conversation.
- [00:00:55.880]Katie Anania: Broadly speaking, this evening, the panelists will consider the wide range of possibilities for artists and designers who use ephemeral materials.
- [00:01:04.520]Katie Anania: materials like paper signage scenes and other disposable print material.
- [00:01:09.600]Katie Anania: In moments of crisis, the panel is weighted heavily towards the tensions and protests introduced into global public discourses within the long 1960s.
- [00:01:20.280]Katie Anania: But also asked questions that extend into the present moment chiefly how do printed documents and other graphic matter mediate some of the urgent bodily dangers that citizens face in their lived experience.
- [00:01:34.640]Katie Anania: To what degree, are the languages that call for liberation languages that find their forum and these easily distributed in easily distributed materials.
- [00:01:44.520]Katie Anania: connected with the live body or to other social circuits and what imprints might they continue to make and conversations about gender, race nation and aesthetics.
- [00:01:56.040]Katie Anania: And further to pose this kind of larger Meta historical question.
- [00:02:00.800]Katie Anania: How might we reassess the history of 20th century print projects, and you know to account for a current return to experimental paper based projects, especially in the age of black lives matter.
- [00:02:12.880]Katie Anania: Each speaker will show one chosen work of art or project over the course of a few minutes and then we'll reveal the components of the work that captured their attention and continue to hold it.
- [00:02:26.480]Katie Anania: Then the photographer Karen jack Wilson will moderate a conversation between the speakers followed hopefully closely by questions from the audience.
- [00:02:36.360]Katie Anania: we're going to hold questions until some of that discussion has gotten started, but you all at home can feel free to write any questions that you have in the chat feature at the bottom of the page, which is the.
- [00:02:47.480]Katie Anania: Little conversation bubble, the very bottom here, and you can also use the hand waving or the clapping icons on zoom to get our attention.
- [00:02:56.880]Katie Anania: and knowledge his name our speakers in the order of our presentation of their presentations.
- [00:03:02.080]Katie Anania: Julian Neil will speak first. She was a lecturer and African American art history at Georgia State University.
- [00:03:08.960]Katie Anania: An art historian curator and writer Neil specializes in modern and contemporary art within the United States, focusing on performance and conceptual based practices attuned with or impacted by.
- [00:03:20.960]Katie Anania: The politics of identity and its role in within postwar sensibilities toward nationalism and trans nationalism.
- [00:03:27.760]Katie Anania: she's currently writing her doctoral dissertation on fluxus artist Benjamin Patterson titled who taught you to think like that Benjamin patterson's conceptual aesthetic.
- [00:03:37.640]Katie Anania: Sam putter monkey is an assistant professor of art history at the school of artists at the school of the art Institute of Chicago.
- [00:03:45.360]Katie Anania: A rank is Richard research interests include performance theories of embodiment visual culture of visual culture and black cultural anesthetic theory.
- [00:03:54.400]Katie Anania: Around key is currently working on her book manuscript titled deaths futurity the visual life of black power.
- [00:04:01.440]Katie Anania: Alexis Celis his assistant professor of art history at new Mexico State University sell us as an art historian of global modern and contemporary art with a specialization in the Americas, Latin America and the Latin next United States.
- [00:04:15.040]Katie Anania: Her curatorial projects courses and scholarship explore fine art, as well as material and visual culture and emphasize the voices of people of color as well as feminist and queer critique her first book disparity at play the artists and projects up to most of these 44 Mexico City.
- [00:04:33.800]Katie Anania: Currently a manuscript in progress, looks at how an artist collective in Mexico City uses the conditions of neoliberalism, to produce subversive collective projects.
- [00:04:44.560]Katie Anania: Karen Jackie Wilson, who will moderate our conversation is a visual artist and activist, based in Lincoln nebraska whose passions are motivated by a need to contribute to the valuation and dignity of people places and things.
- [00:04:57.240]Katie Anania: The breadth of his work has grown to encompass not just varying art mediums that varying topics with his photography Wilson is documented public health projects overseas.
- [00:05:07.000]Katie Anania: Using using videography he has drawn attention to the crisis of housing inequality worsened by the pandemic.
- [00:05:13.480]Katie Anania: And through public art installations, he has helped to generate unavoidable conversations in his Community around current civil rights movements, namely the black lives matter movement, and thank you all again so so much and.
- [00:05:28.120]Katie Anania: chew and Julia we can shift over to you if you're running.
- [00:05:32.560]julia elizabeth neal: away, I mean Thank you katie I am so happy to be part of this panel i'm just going to go ahead and share my screen i'm play i'm just going to jump into it, because I only have five minutes.
- [00:05:47.840]julia elizabeth neal: i'm sorry, so you know what's really interesting to me is that Ben Patterson he's he's really known in art history is for being one of the many accidental cofounders of fluxus and 1962.
- [00:06:00.840]julia elizabeth neal: And he's also most often regarded and post war histories, in general, for his compelling interventions and experimentation and sound and music.
- [00:06:10.360]julia elizabeth neal: and performance that has led to some arguments that he is the quote unquote godfather of black performance art and so.
- [00:06:18.800]julia elizabeth neal: fluxus really is has been historicity says this collective as this capital G group as an organization, these are terms that the participants refute, but they also use.
- [00:06:31.280]julia elizabeth neal: And the part of fluxus was this ideology of flux, the flow right there is this possibility of a multiplicity of meanings of anti authoritarian sensibilities.
- [00:06:44.840]julia elizabeth neal: Democratic relationships between artists and audiences among so much more um but nonetheless what I also want to have some bullet points here that I want to hit um.
- [00:06:57.080]julia elizabeth neal: What what flexes was particularly important for Ben Patterson because he was also an African American.
- [00:07:02.920]julia elizabeth neal: classical double basis a professional who's opportunities in the US were eclipsed by de facto segregation right and so he found opportunities outside of the US and Canada and Europe in Germany and France, especially.
- [00:07:16.920]julia elizabeth neal: And so, his encounters with fluxus there and then his return to New York really offered generative platforms for.
- [00:07:25.800]julia elizabeth neal: His creative sensibilities and impulses like many artists, he also has cited being an artist since his childhood, even though he.
- [00:07:34.360]julia elizabeth neal: pursued a different professional pathway, and so I just have a couple of these images up because they show some of his iconic music based performances that we're really trying to.
- [00:07:45.000]julia elizabeth neal: test the limits of South and.
- [00:07:48.640]julia elizabeth neal: But I want to focus specifically on methods and processes which is from 1962 I had so many different options for clay, as this interactive creative process, but I thought, why don't I just stick quite literally to his first self published.
- [00:08:02.840]julia elizabeth neal: xen that he did in 1962 in Paris, and this is actually a critical moment, I would say it's a threshold moment and patterson's career because it's so early on.
- [00:08:15.600]julia elizabeth neal: But it really condenses a number of topics that are pertinent to him there's this emphasis on participatory action right there's this.
- [00:08:27.720]julia elizabeth neal: interpretive an emphasis on access access in its metaphoric relationships, two things both social economic.
- [00:08:38.440]julia elizabeth neal: As well as professional if we think about his own biography but also there's this idea of undermining.
- [00:08:46.040]julia elizabeth neal: The white cube expanding alternative opportunities for exhibition and the art encounter.
- [00:08:53.720]julia elizabeth neal: So you know Ben Patterson and methods and processes, this is a 12 page accordion style pamphlet slash book that, depending on the participants interaction with it can turn into a sculptural.
- [00:09:08.120]julia elizabeth neal: object, but you know, there are also some other interesting ways to parse this as a book because books are big witness it might tie back to the art of every day or are as every day, but you know here, he has typewritten this.
- [00:09:25.320]julia elizabeth neal: I don't know if you can tell, quite clearly, but he has typewritten essentially event scores, which are short instructions that are known to fluxus originated so called from bone out so called but originated from George Brett.
- [00:09:38.920]julia elizabeth neal: But they also sort of double as these poetic sections right next to reproduce images and so there's this kind of equalization of text and image.
- [00:09:50.160]julia elizabeth neal: And also, if we think about the accordion and Ben patterson's training and music the accordion ends up transforming into this very iconic French instrument for Parisian culture, you know and so.
- [00:10:05.040]julia elizabeth neal: Ben Patterson you had described this object and published in 1962 himself as his first entry into the visual but for purposes of posterity I want a gesture that there were moments earlier when he had.
- [00:10:21.080]julia elizabeth neal: created a piece for both plus style who he had a close relationship in Germany.
- [00:10:26.360]julia elizabeth neal: Because day collage piece will foster being known for a day collage or deconstructing or removing pieces from pre existing material, and so you can see, this very stylized image to the right and which he would like precise.
- [00:10:42.920]julia elizabeth neal: tearing but also we have his reprinting of a couple works, right here, you just see to collected poem number 35 from.
- [00:10:54.520]julia elizabeth neal: 1960, which is one of his earliest puzzle pieces, he would send out in mail art, he would send out all of these images that he has spliced and cut but reproduced on card stock how much time do I have left.
- [00:11:09.480]Katie Anania: I think about it a minute.
- [00:11:11.000]julia elizabeth neal: Maybe i'm writing with.
- [00:11:11.920]Katie Anania: That guns.
- [00:11:13.000]julia elizabeth neal: Are let's let's do this in a minute, but he is calling images from everyday objects, in both the public and private space and.
- [00:11:22.040]julia elizabeth neal: Many of these images are highly charged thinking about what the meaning of ripping apart images of an identified African peoples, presumably African peoples, would mean in terms of the political order so even so or known for the love of order if.
- [00:11:43.480]julia elizabeth neal: And in German, excuse me um but also if i'm to give back to methods and processes was really interesting to me as you unfold it and you can see in this bottom left hand corner.
- [00:11:57.200]julia elizabeth neal: What I will be referencing is that he levels, the iconic images with the general, so we have some fashion, some images of fashion, presumably of this woman who is.
- [00:12:08.840]julia elizabeth neal: Holding a bag presumably and beach affair selling some kind of ad but in the Center of that lower left image that's that very infamous photo of.
- [00:12:19.960]julia elizabeth neal: Jackie Kennedy falling off of her horse next to Pope john the 23rd the Pope, who is most known for being the good Pope preaching and quality for all so even though Ben Patterson seems to put these images and.
- [00:12:37.280]julia elizabeth neal: Whether or not one understands the iconic graphic reference, it was actually quite deliberate in despite of weird claims that his art is not political, it is highly charged because he was really interested and.
- [00:12:51.640]julia elizabeth neal: The creative act that comes from participation sort of lamenting flexes failures of being this idealistic group of change that he also noted did not attend the march on March for freedom in 1963 with them and I actually I think that's where i'll leave that was so fast.
- [00:13:16.160]Katie Anania: It truly is a lightning talk so.
- [00:13:19.840]Katie Anania: it's practically a femoral Thank you so much, absolutely brilliant wonderful stimulating stuff some potter and i'm going to turn the MIC over to you.
- [00:13:31.440]Katie Anania: And we are yours.
- [00:13:32.720]Sampada Aranke: Great Thank you so much for inviting us and.
- [00:13:38.360]Sampada Aranke: Okay yeah i'm going to go into the lightning round so i'm just going to share this image which is an image I spend some time on in the final chapter.
- [00:13:48.240]Sampada Aranke: of my book and i'd be happy to kind of talk about that if people want to in the Q & A, but I just also want to kind of start off by trying to build a connection between.
- [00:14:00.400]Sampada Aranke: Some thing like this poster and my partner Ben Benjamin Jones who's an artist born and raised in Lincoln in and.
- [00:14:12.640]Sampada Aranke: He you know, has I couldn't go forward at this talk without kind of talking about figures like Mandela longer and poindexter, who are both political prisoners here in omaha as well as wanda Ewing, who.
- [00:14:28.720]Sampada Aranke: was a printmaker black from this printmaker who taught at you no for ages and I think those figures are very much part of this bigger story, even though the story that i'm telling today is a smaller one.
- [00:14:44.360]Sampada Aranke: Based out of San quentin prison in California, but I just I want to put those names into the room because they're important to build those connections and.
- [00:14:54.040]Sampada Aranke: Okay, so what you see in front of you is a 1971 poster by oh spa Member Raphael morante and O stands for the organization of solidarity for peoples of.
- [00:15:07.600]Sampada Aranke: African Latin American and of the Americas, more broadly, and so I want to kind of start off by.
- [00:15:17.200]Sampada Aranke: sharing a little bit about George Jackson, who is figured in this image so for those who are unfamiliar with with Jackson he.
- [00:15:26.600]Sampada Aranke: was found guilty of a $70 gas station robbery in 1960 and sentenced to an indeterminate sentence of one year to life when he was 18 years old.
- [00:15:38.960]Sampada Aranke: He bounced between prisons and soledad prison specifically and San quentin and during that time he underwent radicalization politicization and really engaged in a rigorous study of political, economic theory and social movements and joined the black panther party for self Defense.
- [00:16:02.320]Sampada Aranke: In around 1969 and Jackson was gunned down on August 21 1971 in San quentin prison by prison guards for allegedly trying to escape.
- [00:16:17.320]Sampada Aranke: Following a successful 30 minute takeover of a solitary confinement unit Jackson was killed by sniper guards, as he ran towards the prison wall.
- [00:16:26.800]Sampada Aranke: autopsy and crime scene investigations confirm that Jackson did have a gun on him at the time.
- [00:16:32.600]Sampada Aranke: Yet what what is yet to be determined, however it's exactly how Jackson acquired a gun and one of the nation's most highly militarized and securitized prisons.
- [00:16:42.480]Sampada Aranke: And I raised these details, because all this information is you know all the kind of speculation and mystery and non transparency around jackson's murder is crucial to to why.
- [00:16:57.000]Sampada Aranke: Radical organizers and organizers specifically invested in the black liberation movement in the 1960s and 70s.
- [00:17:04.720]Sampada Aranke: Why they turned to political posters, like the one you see in front of you to try to fill in some of those gaps right the state's not being forthright about the fact that they assassinated George Jackson right who is.
- [00:17:17.240]Sampada Aranke: Gaining you know, he was responsible for a lot of interracial coalition building inside, he was known to be a very kind of.
- [00:17:27.680]Sampada Aranke: An urgent theorist of his time and his his books were kind of getting.
- [00:17:33.400]Sampada Aranke: They weren't they weren't out, yet they were actually posthumously released after he was murdered, but he was getting a lot of attention internationally and within the United States.
- [00:17:41.720]Sampada Aranke: So it's no surprise to us right that the California department of corrections did not release any information regarding his murder so.
- [00:17:50.040]Sampada Aranke: What you see in front of you is one of many examples of artists and activists who decided to fill in some of those gaps right and to kind of give us some visual cues.
- [00:18:00.200]Sampada Aranke: to identify the ways that he was actually murdered or assassinated, so I turned to the political poster in this.
- [00:18:09.200]Sampada Aranke: Chapter precisely because right, these are cheaply made reproducible images and they were ubiquitous you could find them anywhere often wheat pasted in the streets for public view.
- [00:18:22.720]Sampada Aranke: And they're one of many examples of ways that artists and organizers at this time, thought of themselves as cultural workers right Our job is to kind of.
- [00:18:31.840]Sampada Aranke: create a new kind of aesthetic create a new way to imagine a new way to live to embody.
- [00:18:37.880]Sampada Aranke: And, of course, in my personal opinion right black cultural workers were kind of the most radical and revolutionary and how they they went about this particular kind of vision.
- [00:18:49.200]Sampada Aranke: And what's interesting and what's dynamic is the political poster for me at least is an object that was never meant to live.
- [00:18:56.880]Sampada Aranke: Right it's an object that is meant to die right, the idea being that, like after the revolution, we don't need to have these objects in museums, or in store houses, these were kind of they they were for utility right there for a certain kind of perfect so.
- [00:19:15.240]Sampada Aranke: And i'll just spend a little bit of time on this poster.
- [00:19:18.520]Sampada Aranke: And there's a lot to talk about and I, and I have some points here that we could return to, we want to, but I want to just focus specifically on the limbs on.
- [00:19:28.320]Sampada Aranke: Specifically jackson's feet in this poster you could probably notice if it's hard for you to see.
- [00:19:35.840]Sampada Aranke: Both jackson's feet are represented here he's barefoot and his toes are kind of grazing the edge of the paper line for us it's the right side of the paper.
- [00:19:48.000]Sampada Aranke: And I focus on that because the his feet, particularly bring together on the one hand, historical practices of lynching slavery and incarceration and on the other, the feet also represent a certain kind of.
- [00:20:04.800]Sampada Aranke: vision of liberation right the promise of a certain kind of abolition and i'm just as a kind of like glimpse into how i'm thinking about this, you know.
- [00:20:16.400]Sampada Aranke: i'm thinking about that image as it relates to more kind of abstract works like that of melvin edwards 1966 cotton hand up right, if we look at this sculpture.
- [00:20:28.520]Sampada Aranke: We can see these two little feet kind of coming down right made out of metal that's at least how I read them and this object for the artist was about kind of bringing into.
- [00:20:41.120]Sampada Aranke: The visual round, but also the embodied realm of a question of the history of lynching right in the US and so i'm thinking about that particular work that abstracted work as a way for us to think about.
- [00:20:58.200]Sampada Aranke: yeah the material and embodied qualities of of or sorry, let me back up the kind of material choices that artists may to give a different kind of sensorial apparatus to the body right.
- [00:21:13.520]Sampada Aranke: And i'm also thinking at the same time, and to keep at that kind of abstract Lee i'm also thinking about it in relation to works like Jacob lawrence's 41 panels series on Harriet tubman.
- [00:21:25.880]Sampada Aranke: And this image that you see in front of you on the right is a late addition from 1967 and you know the kind of one thing that captures our eyes are her feet right her bare feet that kind of take up.
- [00:21:37.800]Sampada Aranke: A majority of the picture plane so i'm I, I want to raise those examples, not because there's like you know Raphael more on taste like he writes this amazing you know it's.
- [00:21:49.280]Sampada Aranke: I wish that he wrote this amazing artist statement that was like I look at melvin edwards and Jacob Lawrence but because.
- [00:21:56.440]Sampada Aranke: You know it's I wish there was a silver bullet in that way, but in i'm thinking specifically about how this is a part of a broader black radical tradition.
- [00:22:05.600]Sampada Aranke: Right, where an artist's like meranti who pays attention and who figures jackson's feet in such a specific way.
- [00:22:13.960]Sampada Aranke: is giving us a whole canon right there's a whole canon in black art history where feet are meant to signal.
- [00:22:22.160]Sampada Aranke: Very the relationship between anti black violence and a certain kind of laboratory promise right because we have to remember Jackson was gunned down for trying to escape for tried to use his feet right and mobilize.
- [00:22:35.080]Sampada Aranke: And I know that's my time so I just want to kind of end it there and i'm sure we'll have lots to talk about it, thank you.
- [00:22:43.680]Katie Anania: Thank you so much, Sam.
- [00:22:46.880]Katie Anania: yeah incredibly generative and i'm very happy to pass the baton to Alexis.
- [00:23:03.960]Katie Anania: Alexis are you with us can can everyone hear me now i'm.
- [00:23:07.840]Katie Anania: Yes, okay.
- [00:23:08.960]Perfect yeah.
- [00:23:11.960]Alexis Salas: i'll give you a peek behind the curtain and just a second on setting up that or maybe oh good okay.
- [00:23:20.320]Alexis Salas: i'm setting up the screen share right now.
- [00:23:34.560]Alexis Salas: Okay, I think we are, first of all thank you so much, this is such a pleasure and such a interesting challenge and possibility.
- [00:23:46.880]Alexis Salas: From 1997 to 1998 for Mexico City based artists than universe man go to query Damien Ortega and with Philibert Ortega published casper.
- [00:23:59.600]Alexis Salas: With man cody or sega and Ortega constituted casper is editorial board casper like it's cartoon namesake.
- [00:24:08.960]Alexis Salas: was a publication envisioned as a personable haunting a friendly ghost but their choice of the icon was an act of subversion.
- [00:24:17.640]Alexis Salas: By using the Trademarks character, they made both a pop culture reference but also illegally ripped it off the spacing that a project and what the artist called pleasure or plagiarism.
- [00:24:30.440]Alexis Salas: Continually truncated breaking apart and then putting back together the icon.
- [00:24:40.280]Alexis Salas: So here, you see this truncation of casper the friendly ghost and here you see the ways in which they're pulling apart and actually in the text they're referring to French.
- [00:24:55.520]Alexis Salas: formalist theory.
- [00:24:58.760]Alexis Salas: So the artist created desperate, three years after the dissolution of the artists based me stop they scored and a quadro an abandoned house in the gentrified and gentrifying neighborhood of.
- [00:25:11.600]Alexis Salas: Polanco.
- [00:25:13.840]Alexis Salas: casper was in part was part of the rich culture of independent cheeky subversive publications that came before it, such as leverage labrada which means broken role or mingled menstruation lot smaller now, which means that.
- [00:25:31.960]Alexis Salas: The pus modern.
- [00:25:34.520]Alexis Salas: And these magazines were embedded in Mexico city's nightlife.
- [00:25:41.000]Alexis Salas: And they were part of the underground queer Bohemian intellectual culture, so this is opening party for a lateral glad proper.
- [00:25:49.000]Alexis Salas: Some of the artists who would go on to found casper had previously contributed text to such underground scenes and little magazines by other map makers.
- [00:25:59.600]Alexis Salas: And while they ran the artist space time established cord and a quadro from 1993 to 19 five they even made their own xen alegria.
- [00:26:09.400]Alexis Salas: alegria another play on words like casper both means happiness and is the name for a county sold at fairs and good times events, and thus the magazine was a joyous celebration of artistic production in Mexico City at the time.
- [00:26:25.400]Alexis Salas: gasper as a magazine was equally appeal to product of an antidote to mass culture of isolation between the occult and the cult.
- [00:26:34.880]Alexis Salas: And casper inserted itself into the Mexican cultural seen as a very specific specific intervention, the artists decided they would make a set number of issues.
- [00:26:43.960]Alexis Salas: The number they chose 13 the most haunted number is associated with both unnatural and the occult, and here the artists make another comment copyrighted commentary.
- [00:26:54.600]Alexis Salas: Is the friendly ghost In fact the soul of America america's most money child richie rich it's yet another simultaneous pop culture and conceptual art element of their project.
- [00:27:06.240]Alexis Salas: casper distribute distribution was small the run for each issue is under 250 copies and hand numbering of each copy denoted the preciousness an artist print or artists book.
- [00:27:17.000]Alexis Salas: Indeed, the components of the magazine itself, where the artist seen a lithograph artwork or sticker and so you see the lithograph artwork.
- [00:27:26.520]Alexis Salas: On the left hand side and this bespoke the Multi sided approach to display the magazine could be divided up and placed in different contexts, such as bookshelves walls and even well transmitted surfaces, such as those of public spaces.
- [00:27:42.160]Alexis Salas: The editorial board Grossman quality are taken Ortega brought their right humor to the publication they used casper to circulate treatises about art.
- [00:27:56.200]Alexis Salas: Do a series of remakes of canonical artwork so here, you see abram Chris Vega remaking Marcel Duchamp.
- [00:28:05.320]Alexis Salas: Here you see Louise Louise Philibert Ortega.
- [00:28:11.120]Alexis Salas: remaking.
- [00:28:14.960]Alexis Salas: His name escapes me.
- [00:28:17.240]Alexis Salas: Pardon i'll come back to that.
- [00:28:19.760]Katie Anania: Right personnel MINS fountain Who then is also I completely have these moments to.
- [00:28:25.280]Alexis Salas: Know man, thank you, I want to burn it Newman who's the next one who want to know every one of our remaking Barnet room and.
- [00:28:33.440]Alexis Salas: Thank you for Bruce nauman yes.
- [00:28:38.560]Alexis Salas: And they ultimately turned into a pardon, and this is me on our sega remaking Robert smithson spiral jetty so he remix it and, of course, they're constantly playing with scale he remix it as a tiny garden feature garden element, with a water feature rather than this massive.
- [00:28:58.240]Alexis Salas: imposition upon the landscape, which was the original project by smithson and.
- [00:29:04.160]Alexis Salas: So they ultimately turned casper in its final issue into a brand casper mania is what they talked about the casper mania for consumption and they talked all kinds of cheap and seemingly.
- [00:29:21.520]Alexis Salas: Goods of questionable use or limited use like the bottle CAP.
- [00:29:27.920]Alexis Salas: A set of car keys.
- [00:29:31.080]Alexis Salas: This says a shirt for a small person.
- [00:29:38.360]Alexis Salas: A construction workers helmet all with the casper trademark and then a final act apply he'll even more things.
- [00:29:48.680]Alexis Salas: or plagiarism a few years after they ceased publishing the magazine they brought it back to life through an art fair in Korea, where they created a bootleg copy.
- [00:29:57.440]Alexis Salas: Of the exhibition catalog as casper is Final Act, the installation performance called friendly capitalism commented on the supposedly free market economies that suppress ideas through copyright limitation.
- [00:30:13.520]Alexis Salas: So thanks so much.
- [00:30:15.840]Alexis Salas: I think i'm Okay, with time that's a small bit of my my larger project, which is about 10 me stop recording.
- [00:30:23.960]Alexis Salas: And their projects.
- [00:30:26.920]Katie Anania: Thank you so much for this window in Alexis and that concludes the set of three talks and Karen I am going to.
- [00:30:36.560]Katie Anania: now pass things to you and I am thinking that you can probably start off with a few questions and then everyone else if you're feeling.
- [00:30:49.840]Katie Anania: You know if you're feeling like contributing, please do write something in the chat any questions that you might have and we'll kind of harmonize together between the questions and discussion so thanks Karen.
- [00:31:06.080]iPad: awesome Thank you all all to all the speakers for sharing and I was really interesting, I have a couple questions here I kind of want to.
- [00:31:16.080]iPad: Bring the conversation a little bit into.
- [00:31:19.360]iPad: Some more like contemporary topics.
- [00:31:22.400]iPad: like seeing that we are in the current midst of a resurgence of the civil rights movement, we are seeing a resurgence of artists getting involved with said movement.
- [00:31:32.840]iPad: And starting off with my first question on social media has had like large impacts on the way that art is shared.
- [00:31:40.920]iPad: You know if you put a poster up suddenly, you also have the availability of a passer by taking a photo sharing and online things just spread very differently um, I would like to hear a little bit of how.
- [00:31:53.760]iPad: There are downsides are there advantages and downsides to social medias impact on the spread of our you know, so we have individuals who have larger followings tend to have their work spread further.
- [00:32:04.880]iPad: people tend to spend more time on the Internet, and they do you know, looking at posters seeking out art around their communities, and I think that I would like to hear from.
- [00:32:15.080]iPad: Julia I would love to hear, because you said that.
- [00:32:18.120]iPad: Art provides access, socially, economically, it provides access, you were talking a little bit also about how folks in in think Ben patterson's work was political, even though it was so i'd love to hear how you think that would play off with social media today.
- [00:32:34.040]julia elizabeth neal: So I did bring something for showing that I think might be useful, because one of the things that Patterson.
- [00:32:41.360]julia elizabeth neal: To my frustration has been quite adamant about is undermining originality and so many of his objects.
- [00:32:50.680]julia elizabeth neal: Have variations upon variations upon variations and it's something he actually embraced in his practice I think Patterson would love to see the reproduced image of his work on social media.
- [00:33:07.000]julia elizabeth neal: um he in fact went through and, at the end of 1999 he published the black black and white file complete, in which he just completely photocopied, most of all of his iconic work which breaks down the original form, I think i'll show you a piece, for example, of.
- [00:33:30.640]julia elizabeth neal: German folders of methods and processes, where you have posted on Thursday, right here um so I what I didn't mention is that he was encouraged by Daniel sperry to publish methods and processes and Daniel spurious significant for being the founder and.
- [00:33:51.000]julia elizabeth neal: additions am to 8am today, where he was really encouraging artists to reach broader audiences through reproduced images, so that even in the reproduced single copy of there's multiple of originals.
- [00:34:07.520]julia elizabeth neal: So there's no sanctity of the object essentially and i'm thinking you're you're also asking a question to somebody who.
- [00:34:17.080]julia elizabeth neal: Has is still negotiating her own anxieties about social media i'm i'm only active on Twitter, but you know what's what's.
- [00:34:27.320]julia elizabeth neal: Telling to me when it comes to Patterson and he really found value in cheap items and cheap, not in this condescending way of there's a hierarchy of value most of the stuff he.
- [00:34:42.320]julia elizabeth neal: got we're literally on the streets or from people's homes or we also go to flea markets and even in Germany his studio slash home he had this wonderful window in front of it that showed all of these.
- [00:34:56.120]julia elizabeth neal: kitsch objects that he absolutely loved I think Patterson would definitely make the argument for younger artists today to.
- [00:35:05.120]julia elizabeth neal: find a workable ways for their art to be reachable and social media would be one of them sometime when I was looking through his archive within the last couple years.
- [00:35:16.520]julia elizabeth neal: He was even entertaining the idea of means Okay, so he is somebody who's very much interested in our as a technology and art as a technology of the creative process.
- [00:35:31.120]julia elizabeth neal: He was very much interested in self study and so, most of the times when you're eating receiving some kind of reception for his work it's through somebody else's archive elsewhere, so he didn't quite.
- [00:35:46.520]julia elizabeth neal: Given the platforms that he had he wasn't sharing or valuing some massive feedback things were much and highly individualized you know, so I feel like that might be, what I can contribute to your question, I like that question, it takes me now.
- [00:36:04.640]iPad: awesome Thank you um I wanted to kind of spin this over to Alexis.
- [00:36:09.440]iPad: Because, as you were talking about the the casper magazine.
- [00:36:15.680]iPad: It made me think a little bit about how you know today we live in a world where.
- [00:36:20.480]iPad: people seem to be so more drawn to litigation.
- [00:36:24.920]iPad: And Julia you didn't mention this a little bit with saying.
- [00:36:29.720]iPad: What was it sorry.
- [00:36:32.800]iPad: One second Oh, you were saying Ben patterson's work like he would love to see recreated.
- [00:36:37.520]iPad: I can't say the same of like an entity like Disney you know they would not want to have their work recreated.
- [00:36:42.320]iPad: utilize to speak on behalf of the larger movement and so Julia I was just interested in or sorry Alexis, I was interested in hearing a little bit.
- [00:36:49.720]iPad: about how you think artists can or artists would navigate kind of that mentality today where the like these larger conglomerate seems so much.
- [00:36:59.600]iPad: more focused on protecting the brand image.
- [00:37:03.320]Alexis Salas: yeah yeah I think these are fantastic questions because so much has been said about re appropriation right.
- [00:37:09.200]Alexis Salas: sort of taking images, as your own, but the act of that these artists are participating in as part of a long trajectory of the artist is criminal one of the images that I psyched cycled through early on.
- [00:37:24.600]Alexis Salas: about an earlier xen was.
- [00:37:28.240]Alexis Salas: It says in big letters and it's a it's kind of a mug shot style they germinated it or they created it, and then they gave life to it so it's this really rich true of the criminal act as being part and parcel of the intellectual project, particularly in north, south relationships.
- [00:37:52.280]Alexis Salas: So, going back to your earlier question about social media.
- [00:37:57.360]Alexis Salas: And thinking about how so many important projects, especially with dreamers in a lot next Community as of late, have had to do with.
- [00:38:10.840]Alexis Salas: have had a really in relation to civil rights in general have had a really humble means and have been headed by just a few artists will yourselves i'll go immediately comes to mind.
- [00:38:24.840]Alexis Salas: But these images have had these massive impacts.
- [00:38:28.880]Alexis Salas: Not only thinking about.
- [00:38:33.160]Alexis Salas: political perspectives on the contemporary moment but also.
- [00:38:38.720]Alexis Salas: narratives of healing and narratives of care, the artists that i'm working at in the 1990s are really about dismantling the system and so i've been really interested to see through social media about.
- [00:38:51.120]Alexis Salas: How many strategies and ways, there are to build new systems, which is different from the project, and I think both are really important interesting interventions, but different from the project that i'm looking at through this manuscript books have you.
- [00:39:10.400]iPad: Some Thank you.
- [00:39:11.960]iPad: um and then somehow I wanted to ask you um there was a while you're speaking, there was a Tony cade bar quote, that really came to mind.
- [00:39:21.000]iPad: Where the author said, the role of the artist is to make the revolution revolution irresistible as you were talking about you know the political posters.
- [00:39:29.720]iPad: The need to like raise these questions fill gaps, you also mentioned that artists are cultural workers, and so I kind of wanted to hear a little bit about your opinions around artists being.
- [00:39:40.760]iPad: bound to the mission by like personal motivation to speak up on behalf of themselves as opposed to speaking up on behalf of others and how that's influential in their work.
- [00:39:51.880]Sampada Aranke: that's a great question I was like.
- [00:39:53.680]Sampada Aranke: Really, hoping krista.
- [00:39:57.640]Sampada Aranke: pulling up the big I gotta like get my muscles already um that's a fantastic question and i'm sure Kenyan artists so i'm sure you also have this kind of a very similar.
- [00:40:09.640]Sampada Aranke: yeah that question kind of comes back to you in many ways i'm sure right, and I think, for me, one of the things that is particularly urgent about the.
- [00:40:20.960]Sampada Aranke: works in the artists that i'm looking at in this book is that you know there there isn't this kind of tension or antagonism between the personal and the social or the collective or the political right, which I think is in direct kind of.
- [00:40:37.760]Sampada Aranke: conflict with a certain kind of white Western history of art or a white Western understanding of the making of an artist right which is like.
- [00:40:47.400]Sampada Aranke: Really grounded in this romantic ideal of the life of the mind and.
- [00:40:51.840]Sampada Aranke: You know, isolation and the artists in their studio and you know if that's your like cup of tea totally run with that, but the artists that i'm looking at who are.
- [00:41:01.120]Sampada Aranke: Specifically black artists who come from a black radical tradition right and specifically a black radical aesthetic tradition don't understand the the world to be a place that is separate from the artist to you know merely reflects on it right that's like a very kind of.
- [00:41:22.200]Sampada Aranke: White Western epistemological formation, that the artists can somehow separate themselves out isolate themselves and then get some kind of objective.
- [00:41:31.400]Sampada Aranke: You know perspective or something so and i'm you know the artists, that I look at our are working within another kind of tradition that's that's not only black, but if you ask me, is.
- [00:41:44.840]Sampada Aranke: is mostly black right which is that.
- [00:41:49.840]Sampada Aranke: The making of oneself is bound in the world in which one is made, so this like the constantly putting.
- [00:41:59.600]Sampada Aranke: yeah there is this certain kind of.
- [00:42:02.840]Sampada Aranke: element to that, but isn't just about like reflection of the world or creating you know, in the case that poster right trying to not only fill in those gaps, but I would say.
- [00:42:13.040]Sampada Aranke: that's also what's also embedded in that is a vision of the future right is is a kind of radical vision of the future so we're not only commenting on.
- [00:42:23.120]Sampada Aranke: The horrendous onslaught of anti black violence that just kind of you know, tries to exhaust us every single day, but within that same image that's depict depicting something horrible we're also given.
- [00:42:36.440]Sampada Aranke: A kind of radical vision for the future right like.
- [00:42:40.120]Sampada Aranke: In that poster it's about future activity it's about escape it's about abolition it's about a certain kind of like running towards freedom.
- [00:42:48.200]Sampada Aranke: Which is all for me and Bobby in the feet right, but you can see it in different kinds of ways, and I think like another way to think about that.
- [00:42:57.480]Sampada Aranke: question here and thank you for asking it has given me the opportunity to think about the image differently is.
- [00:43:02.720]Sampada Aranke: You know the the figure that were given like we know that it's George Jackson because of the caption but really were given like a silhouetted black figure.
- [00:43:10.760]Sampada Aranke: Right and we know that, like in a black art historical canon the Silhouette is used very deliberately in order for the artists to communicate to a viewer like you can put yourself inside this body right, this is a.
- [00:43:25.480]Sampada Aranke: That that George Jackson is a collective entity as much as he's a single person right, and you can kind of fill fill in the thousands of George jackson's that exist in you and me in the world, so.
- [00:43:40.040]Sampada Aranke: I kind of think that you know, at least for me what's exciting about the works that.
- [00:43:46.600]Sampada Aranke: That i'm focusing on in this book is that the kind of self world divide is like not existed it's like about creating and that viral quote gets me every time I get chills every time right it's about creating.
- [00:43:58.800]Sampada Aranke: A certain kind of revolutionary vision that doesn't that that thinks about death is part and parcel of making a new world.
- [00:44:07.520]Katie Anania: We have a request in the chat.
- [00:44:09.920]Katie Anania: Karen for you to.
- [00:44:11.200]Katie Anania: paste if you can, if you're.
- [00:44:13.440]iPad: Oh yeah I could do that I could send it afterwards yeah I could definitely do that.
- [00:44:17.040]Katie Anania: yeah that was it really was very beautifully put yeah.
- [00:44:20.560]iPad: Thank you appreciate.
- [00:44:22.880]iPad: And thank you for the response um do do we have time for one more question.
- [00:44:27.680]iPad: awesome yeah, so this is kind of at anyone who wants to take it or everyone um but one of the things that i've seen a lot lately is.
- [00:44:36.320]iPad: A lot of like rampant anti anti intellectual is.
- [00:44:41.960]iPad: Like very philistine culture seems to be kind of growing.
- [00:44:46.520]iPad: purse up with my personal spin on it, I think it's oftentimes weaponized and an effort so silent people silence people that we need to hear from.
- [00:44:55.640]iPad: Whether or not you think that's the case as well, i'm interested if in whether or not you think that the the effectiveness of these strategies still remains equally as true now as then.
- [00:45:08.520]iPad: If you think it's increasing in fact effectiveness, if you think it's decrease i'm just interested in hearing a take on that because I do see.
- [00:45:16.040]iPad: A culture that sometimes vilifies art and artists, you know you put a poster up on a wall and suddenly you can be charged with vandalism.
- [00:45:24.560]iPad: there's just like a seriousness that these that have been pursued with on i'm interested in hearing how you think that has impacted the effectiveness of these strategies.
- [00:45:35.680]iPad: oops sorry.
- [00:45:39.240]Sampada Aranke: that's an awesome question.
- [00:45:42.560]Sampada Aranke: Does anybody mind if I just tried it if I dip my toe first I i'm thinking about it a lot, because there is, and in the case of Jackson, for example, one of the few things that we have is records of around his time in San quentin that is a.
- [00:45:59.720]Sampada Aranke: Is a list of the books in his library and his cell.
- [00:46:04.320]Sampada Aranke: And I think about that quite often because there is a way that that that.
- [00:46:11.880]Sampada Aranke: right that intellectual practice of study of something like you know, a version of black study like stephano Harney and Fred mountain right the way that they think about it, and that version of black city is it's again kind of.
- [00:46:27.320]Sampada Aranke: It embodies an understanding of study that is lived as in lived experience as much as in kind of.
- [00:46:35.520]Sampada Aranke: The intellectual life of books and I would extend that to say in a kind of aesthetic practice.
- [00:46:41.840]Sampada Aranke: Right so like making the actual active of making right of whether it's painting or printmaking or drawing or.
- [00:46:50.040]Sampada Aranke: or playing the bass right it's like that is a certain kind of intellectual generation, and one thing that.
- [00:46:58.440]Sampada Aranke: I believe, like a very particular kind of black studies framework gives us is.
- [00:47:03.320]Sampada Aranke: Is this kind is a way to refute this idea that study is only something that happens behind the gate right and it's actually something that is like lived in.
- [00:47:14.720]Sampada Aranke: streets in bodies in in mind that bear that there's a way that those things come together and and if we pay attention to those nuances right art isn't just something that is.
- [00:47:28.600]Sampada Aranke: Even even made right it's like lived, we see it in practices that we can all relate to you know, like.
- [00:47:37.000]Sampada Aranke: My mom or moms in general right making something out of nothing right like to Julius point with Patterson.
- [00:47:44.320]Sampada Aranke: Using found objects that that's part of a black radical tradition and that's that's deeply intellectual and deeply conceptually rigorous right and doesn't and doesn't necessarily make its way into.
- [00:47:58.400]Sampada Aranke: A certain kind of library, or certain kind of book and I think, and I actually think that's Okay, I think some of those knowledge is don't need to be recorded.
- [00:48:06.760]Sampada Aranke: Right and in in these kinds of gate keeping ways I think sometimes those lived experiences can can do way more.
- [00:48:17.840]Sampada Aranke: When they're weak pasted and torn down and then, if they're kind of put in a museum archive for people like me 50 years later, to go visit right when they weren't intended to be that in the first place.
- [00:48:34.480]julia elizabeth neal: Your question actually has me thinking back to a time when Patterson in the 1960s was criticized by his peers, for being too cerebral.
- [00:48:45.280]julia elizabeth neal: for being too esoteric and I think, and one of the difficulties of patterson's work is this aesthetics, of the mundane.
- [00:48:55.680]julia elizabeth neal: That I mean, even in my own excitement I find so much fun in the written word, even though bad at Patterson says that the value of his work it doesn't lie in the words that lies in the actual ization it lives with in the performance, I think.
- [00:49:13.680]julia elizabeth neal: In some cases very might be at a contemporary audience less patient with an aesthetic of the mundane but alternatively.
- [00:49:25.800]julia elizabeth neal: With the over exposure of so much activity on the Internet and posting and double clicking double tapping excuse me.
- [00:49:36.320]julia elizabeth neal: And swiping and all of this kind of stuff there will also be a Community that is looking for something a bit slower pace and i'm thinking you know, one of.
- [00:49:48.280]julia elizabeth neal: Patterson strategies was because I didn't articulate that really and my presentation, but one of his strategies was thinking about our as a perceptual tool.
- [00:50:01.760]julia elizabeth neal: And so, in many cases there's a lot of slippage with fluxus where the event score is displayed in museums, as the artwork that the museum itself.
- [00:50:11.120]julia elizabeth neal: As it still stands, even to today whether or not a performances have recorded performance is shown on screen that it's not not accommodating to His style of work in terms of what he wanted audiences to do to interact with.
- [00:50:27.760]julia elizabeth neal: And i'm thinking that you one of the one of the strengths in that kind of strategy is a patient's because I mean when I taught flock fluxus and my African.
- [00:50:40.280]julia elizabeth neal: American art class you really jump into some highly intellectual lies postmodern sort of.
- [00:50:47.720]julia elizabeth neal: Discussions about arts identity, which seems to be difficult for many people to swallow when they want to have a career in art, which means having.
- [00:50:59.000]julia elizabeth neal: Something that's sellable something that's commodity, is something that comes with a figure, and you know it's great that Adrian Piper sort of with her wisdom or Howard Dean, have been dealt with her wisdom or been Patterson having lived a full life.
- [00:51:15.680]julia elizabeth neal: You know i'm even thinking about Coco who's goes critiques of art schools and art school training and how.
- [00:51:22.160]julia elizabeth neal: Art as a primary activity for most is something that is generally intolerable, especially within the United States because you're not making money because you're not being supported, even in the pandemic, where we see that the things that are revitalizing people are the arts right.
- [00:51:39.040]julia elizabeth neal: The things that are frightening people are the hospitals and the sciences, I think this idea of a perceptual tool that artists, something that presupposes a captivated audience is still useful and in the present moment.
- [00:51:57.080]Alexis Salas: yeah and then thinking about these.
- [00:52:00.760]Alexis Salas: kind of.
- [00:52:02.240]Alexis Salas: tools and strategies and following up on it, I really appreciate it both of your comments about kind of.
- [00:52:09.920]Alexis Salas: Understanding these things that are so easily dismissed as mundane or that we relegate to entirely the femoral.
- [00:52:18.560]Alexis Salas: I think it's also about considering where we place the emphasis about where artists can do the work right what what is it what are its productive capacities.
- [00:52:31.640]Alexis Salas: And how does that have to do with the structure of society so so much has been made of participatory aesthetics or institutional critique rights participatory aesthetics thinking about how the artists can almost serve as a motivator audiences.
- [00:52:48.200]Alexis Salas: i'm going to play Nice, the complexity of these a little or institutional critique or an artist can.
- [00:52:55.520]Alexis Salas: enter institution and show its downfalls and weaknesses.
- [00:53:01.680]Alexis Salas: But the artists that i'm thinking about their strategies.
- [00:53:06.920]Alexis Salas: are really go kind of beyond the censorship or the dismissal of.
- [00:53:13.040]Alexis Salas: What you call Karen like a philistine group and they're really about a kind of institutional invasion.
- [00:53:21.520]Alexis Salas: That allows the artists to be assimilated into power in such a way that.
- [00:53:29.840]Alexis Salas: They create some sort of legacy that may not be immediately legible that may not be how the work is even.
- [00:53:38.880]Alexis Salas: Initially.
- [00:53:41.840]Alexis Salas: discussed so I I closed with that image of the photocopying.
- [00:53:47.320]Alexis Salas: Of the art fair in Korea, the the comments that were made about that work is that they may meet a cheaper better copy.
- [00:53:55.400]Alexis Salas: There wasn't really much common a reflection of what about how taking a glossy beautifully reproduced beautifully produced.
- [00:54:04.760]Alexis Salas: Art fair catalog and then making some black and white copies and kind of putting it together with some plastic binder.
- [00:54:12.880]Alexis Salas: And then selling it in a fifth of the price with this kind of an assigned to the artist signed it right is this wonderful commentary that leads you to questions of like Walter Benjamin and erratic quality of the art object right.
- [00:54:27.320]Alexis Salas: And how this is a complete kind of dislocation of.
- [00:54:31.840]Alexis Salas: Of the power structures that exist right they found their way to exist in the institution.
- [00:54:40.280]Alexis Salas: in such a way that they're almost invisible invisible i'm thinking of Cuban artists tanya bruschetta who in Cuba in Louisiana and was doing a performance.
- [00:54:57.800]Alexis Salas: And a police officer came up to her and said.
- [00:55:01.520]Alexis Salas: What are you doing, and she said.
- [00:55:04.520]Alexis Salas: i'm making art and he thought about it for a moment and then decided that he would just let her keep doing it because that was kind of a dismissal.
- [00:55:14.680]Alexis Salas: or a permission right and so i'm interested in how artists find these ways to use art as a permission, but really have a set of possibilities to do things that can critique that can.
- [00:55:29.600]Alexis Salas: That can change power dynamics in wizard aren't aren't always.
- [00:55:34.880]Alexis Salas: Read by everybody, because actually maybe it's not always about being legible to everybody in every context and everything right many of the artists that i'm working with their their multilingual, yet they choose to work in Spanish right they're not about trying to.
- [00:55:52.880]Alexis Salas: make a universal language they're speaking to themselves for themselves with this kind of interest and what they might be able to do through their work.
- [00:56:03.440]iPad: awesome Thank you all so much, I feel so fortunate to have gotten the.
- [00:56:07.280]iPad: opportunity to ask you, those questions, so thank you and thank you okay.
- [00:56:10.400]Katie Anania: Yes, no problem, I want to.
- [00:56:12.720]Katie Anania: kind of create an opportunity for you all in the audience to come forward with questions this feels like it's been like such a dynamic handoff and i'm interested to hear your thoughts, especially since so many of the.
- [00:56:28.800]Katie Anania: questions and issues raised have also been things that come up in the graduate seminar and teaching and then the undergraduate survey course on the global 16th and so i'm i'm i'm eager to pluck these threads but i'm i'm also curious about what you all at home are thinking.
- [00:56:48.440]Katie Anania: So we want to give you space.
- [00:56:52.280]Katie Anania: Anyone have a question.
- [00:57:10.760]Katie Anania: allison you just make me.
- [00:57:12.320]Sampada Aranke: Oh jaden maybe has a hand up.
- [00:57:15.000]Katie Anania: Maybe okay wait i'm looking at hands.
- [00:57:19.480]Sampada Aranke: Unless that's a high five.
- [00:57:22.400]Jayden Brown: quick question.
- [00:57:25.200]Jayden Brown: is for all you ladies actually.
- [00:57:27.440]Jayden Brown: A regards.
- [00:57:28.400]Jayden Brown: Of not just artists, but women in society, do you think as female artists you guys are still being under represented ever under represented in terms of art or do you think you guys have to make more of a more of a reaction of people kind of like how the gorilla girls did in their situation.
- [00:57:56.240]julia elizabeth neal: Well jaden, thank you for your question, I will be happy to announce as my non creative self that I am not an artist, but I will say that.
- [00:58:09.240]julia elizabeth neal: The power dynamics between institutions in terms of equalizing the playing field for many people of different backgrounds, is still an ongoing on slot.
- [00:58:23.040]julia elizabeth neal: And, especially within the last five years, there have been some developments with regards to highlighting.
- [00:58:34.040]julia elizabeth neal: The work of black women artists, whose work has not received mainstream recognition, they have been recognized it's always important to think about what the context of asserting an artist as unknown to WHO.
- [00:58:50.760]julia elizabeth neal: Who was looking because they're generally is a very long genealogy of people who have been supporting work for some time.
- [00:58:59.840]julia elizabeth neal: And I think the hope is that.
- [00:59:05.200]julia elizabeth neal: The institutional recognition continues, and I think that this is something that black women artists, especially articulating and waves that are, unlike the 1960s, which saw provisional integration.
- [00:59:26.360]julia elizabeth neal: That availed more opportunities to black identified males then black identify women, men and women sorry so sex gender different right women.
- [00:59:40.040]julia elizabeth neal: And anyway, but um I would, I would also say that I think, because you asked the question sort of gives us a sense that there is.
- [00:59:53.720]julia elizabeth neal: A situation that's unresolved and I think it's always going to be unresolved, but what I really love about this panel is that we have art historians working in.
- [01:00:05.480]julia elizabeth neal: Very different places that are not the centers of power and representation, and I think that this presumed fragmentation of art historians everywhere, but New York and La is.
- [01:00:21.640]julia elizabeth neal: going to be useful, because there are other communities that are working to highlight the works of artists in Chicago and new Mexico in nebraska in Atlanta right like.
- [01:00:35.000]julia elizabeth neal: The economy is forcing enough people to relocate to places they never thought they would have.
- [01:00:42.480]julia elizabeth neal: Four jobs and that does not mean that they don't have stakes in the area just comes with familiarity and experience and genuine interest you know, but also, I in my study of a black male.
- [01:00:57.240]julia elizabeth neal: And a black man Benjamin Patterson much of that study has actually been out of the United States because.
- [01:01:06.160]julia elizabeth neal: He was doing work with fluxus early on and like when his late 20s and he started to build a family, he quickly left fluxus.
- [01:01:16.560]julia elizabeth neal: Although I think that is sort of a floor that he puts him because he was still making work he really submerged himself and this this art of the everyday by living it and still generating stuff but most he had been mostly supported by.
- [01:01:34.840]julia elizabeth neal: Let me truncate that he has been mostly supported abroad and it wasn't until his retrospective in Houston that more US institutions in academia and the museum.
- [01:01:47.240]julia elizabeth neal: World started to pay attention to him and with globalism operating the way it is, I see uncanny parallel and discourse in Germany, about how Ben Patterson has been ignored when, in fact.
- [01:02:03.520]julia elizabeth neal: The acknowledgement in Germany itself was very much limited as well to to finite players with a sincere interest in his career.
- [01:02:15.320]Sampada Aranke: I Julia Thank you we you and I were in I feel like we shared a brain there for a minute, but I just wanted to kind of add some names for people that are interested in, you know, I think.
- [01:02:27.040]Sampada Aranke: it's important to recognize that, though, that that specific work has been done by black women curators like not only kind of thelma golden lowery stoke sims right Valerie.
- [01:02:39.640]Sampada Aranke: All over because all all over, but you know black radical women and was curated co curated by reject hockley who's at the Whitney museum.
- [01:02:50.640]Sampada Aranke: And Naomi beckwith curated Howard Dean, a pen dells kind of big retrospective at the MCA.
- [01:02:58.160]Sampada Aranke: And Adrian edwards who specifically been working in performance right i'm saying these names and top and sorry also I should say Linda good Brian who's you know so crucial to.
- [01:03:10.280]Sampada Aranke: And curating works like buddy SARS work David hammons and our purefoy and in Los Angeles and.
- [01:03:18.360]Sampada Aranke: and Thomas lacks who's at moma is curating a big Linda good Brian show at moma so i'm saying these for folks that are interested in picking up those strands but also to kind of acknowledge to Julius point right.
- [01:03:30.000]Sampada Aranke: it's not just that the institutions are like hip to these these artists who've been doing the work but it's also that it's mostly black women curators.
- [01:03:39.600]Sampada Aranke: Who are of a generation that is close to mine right i'm an atheist baby.
- [01:03:44.760]Sampada Aranke: And who are really bringing that again into increase visibility, who to kind of borrow from the lexus's train of thought right who found their ways into these institutions, despite having doors shut on them.
- [01:03:58.080]Sampada Aranke: Who are building off the work of giants like howdy Anna piniella and Larry stokes him and thelma gold golden but are kind of bringing bringing that work.
- [01:04:07.320]Sampada Aranke: To a popular audience and and I, I just want to kind of like give some space for those for those folks for you to go chase chase what they do and keep an eye and an ear to the ground.
- [01:04:21.400]Alexis Salas: I just wanted to give a shout out to not having to necessarily occupy a certain subject position as well, so thinking about.
- [01:04:32.960]Alexis Salas: How we work along lines of solidarity to and how these subjects positions so with the artists that i'm looking at and the Mexican 1990s.
- [01:04:45.000]Alexis Salas: International curators are coming around with our checklists and they're like I want to Mexican I want an African.
- [01:04:51.040]Alexis Salas: You know, and so these artists said no we're not going to be your Mexican we're not wearing the somebody to and drinking the tequila and fulfilling your little cultural fantasy we don't want to be in any show and.
- [01:05:04.000]Alexis Salas: I don't know that this is the only position to take, but it was the position of beta we don't want to be an initial that's about our Mexican so we want to be understood as.
- [01:05:15.160]Alexis Salas: artists.
- [01:05:17.080]Alexis Salas: And I think that that's also.
- [01:05:20.720]Alexis Salas: A way that I mean some great work is being done, I think that's very important to recognize the work being done.
- [01:05:31.600]Alexis Salas: That the Julia and some powder have brought up and there's also great work that's being done by allies and people who have studied and who have built systems of knowledge and who have entered projects with humility with understanding that they are lacking in many ways.
- [01:05:50.360]Alexis Salas: But there are many projects, I think, to be done that, because we may not perfectly occupy certain subject positions, and I think part of the work is figuring out how we can do these projects together as well.
- [01:06:08.480]iPad: Okay, do you mind if I say something.
- [01:06:10.600]iPad: No oh yeah so I just wanted to.
- [01:06:13.600]iPad: Say as it relates back to that question um one of the great things that i've seen.
- [01:06:19.400]iPad: With the power of social media, especially over the course of the past few months.
- [01:06:23.760]iPad: You have the power as an individual to overcome.
- [01:06:27.680]iPad: Any power that an institution has to decide, whose voices heard when you have an opportunity to elevate the voices of marginalized communities, you need to take those opportunities, because that is directly how we.
- [01:06:42.480]iPad: allow individuals to step up and have their voices heard, despite these institutions stepping in front of them i'm sorry I just had to chime in and say that.
- [01:06:52.920]iPad: Can I.
- [01:06:53.720]I.
- [01:06:55.280]Allison Arkush: i'm going to.
- [01:06:56.360]Allison Arkush: jump in.
- [01:06:57.080]Allison Arkush: um I am a Grad student in the ceramics program at UNL, and also, I I think of myself as an artist not someone who's like part of his historical discourses until kind of recently realizing that maybe.
- [01:07:15.960]Allison Arkush: That like i'm having a lot of the same kind of thoughts and experiences about it as people who are part of that discourse on that it's, this is actually what it feels like to be confused and also questioning so i'm in that spirit i'm kind of risk responding and I, I think that.
- [01:07:35.080]Allison Arkush: I.
- [01:07:36.960]Allison Arkush: Think I don't necessarily i'm not concerned with like who what are everyone liking, the work or getting the work kind of like what Alexis was saying, you know.
- [01:07:49.520]Allison Arkush: it's more about.
- [01:07:52.400]Allison Arkush: Putting it out there and and.
- [01:07:58.280]Allison Arkush: Giving I want to find a way to tie it back to giving non artists women space and time to experience and explore art, because I feel like we were talking about how art gets disseminated and i'm me and.
- [01:08:16.520]Allison Arkush: i'm coming from a place of privilege, you know, obviously, and I want to use that well to not just make the art.
- [01:08:25.880]Allison Arkush: But and have that be my role as a woman in art, but to also have part of that roby to.
- [01:08:34.600]Allison Arkush: How can we address like accessibility, by making time and space for rest, you know people don't have time to consider are.
- [01:08:43.640]Allison Arkush: Generally speaking.
- [01:08:44.960]Allison Arkush: And that isn't it that's a problem to me, I think, and i'm.
- [01:08:52.600]Allison Arkush: i'm also not representative of all women, so I think trying to to.
- [01:08:59.560]Allison Arkush: create a space for voices that are not getting or haven't historically got enough space in both you know, making art seeing are.
- [01:09:10.280]Allison Arkush: writing about art and having convert like conversations like this that are kind of they're very I think they're so exciting like it's it was so cool to hear you guys talk up and these three different ways and that.
- [01:09:28.040]Allison Arkush: makes so much sense together, because all of these things can be true and exists next to each other and it's not really like this or that we can say and and like.
- [01:09:40.360]Allison Arkush: that's a generative place.
- [01:09:44.040]Allison Arkush: Like thinking about crime, not as automatically a negative occurrence.
- [01:09:51.080]Allison Arkush: And like.
- [01:09:53.360]Allison Arkush: i'm sorry I.
- [01:09:56.920]Allison Arkush: There was something else I wanted to.
- [01:10:01.320]Allison Arkush: I wrote it down here, somewhere, but I.
- [01:10:05.720]Allison Arkush: Maybe i'll come back to it but Oh, the binder as art and in like a Walter Benjamin sense and.
- [01:10:17.560]Allison Arkush: Then there's so many binders out there, like as a whole, I don't know okay i'm gonna stop but.
- [01:10:26.120]Allison Arkush: I think that may be made a little bit of sense.
- [01:10:33.160]Dehmie Dehmlow: um.
- [01:10:34.680]Dehmie Dehmlow: Can you guys hear me.
- [01:10:37.520]Dehmie Dehmlow: OK, I just got new headphones and like.
- [01:10:46.040]Katie Anania: We timmy we heard you up until I just got new headphones and.
- [01:10:50.640]Allison Arkush: How many.
- [01:10:52.400]Allison Arkush: cohorts.
- [01:10:53.600]Katie Anania: And do you all mind, because I think, to make it had asked a question a few minutes ago in the chat, and so I wanted to rest on it for a minute because uh you know speaks to a lineage that I think feels nice to shore up in this moment but.
- [01:11:06.560]Katie Anania: To make a you say i'm very interested in the relationship between black feminism and printmaking especially this idea of the printed flyer as an art form that's meant to die, which makes me think of the impermanence of spoken word poetry.
- [01:11:18.320]Katie Anania: You mentioned wanda Ewing from omaha were there any interesting collaborations between black women writers from the 60s and printmakers that you stumbled on in your research.
- [01:11:31.680]Sampada Aranke: To make it that's an awesome question and the most immediate collaboration that comes to mind, for me, is actually not in the 60s, so I want to qualify that happened quite like later in their careers, but they're both artists who kind of.
- [01:11:46.960]Sampada Aranke: yeah gained a lot of a lot more visibility in this melvin edwards who's the sculptor whose work I kind of flashed on the screen and Jane Cortez who's a poet and.
- [01:11:59.360]Sampada Aranke: And they actually their partnership was beyond artistic they were married for a very, very long time, I believe they're still married to don't quote me on that.
- [01:12:12.120]Sampada Aranke: But they did a series of works that were collaborations where it Cortez provided the poetry and.
- [01:12:20.960]Sampada Aranke: edwards provided the visual imagery and and that work is pretty exciting and definitely worth checking out if you're interested in that.
- [01:12:29.960]Sampada Aranke: and, beyond that, I think you know i'm somebody like Elizabeth catlett right her her print work, specifically that that may not necessarily have posed you know poetry be take Center stage on the visual plane, but it's definitely a part of the way that she titles work so i'm thinking.
- [01:12:52.760]Sampada Aranke: Specifically of her series.
- [01:12:55.640]Sampada Aranke: yeah as soon as the person in the 40s called the negro women series, where she titles her work in such a way that the titles are actually kind of poetic and they build upon each other throughout the series so there's I think those are two two.
- [01:13:11.240]Sampada Aranke: Examples that come to the front of my mind as artists working in this kind of realm of the the aesthetics of poetry or the poetics of aesthetics, or something like that and that might be those might be good good leads but i'm sure other folks have examples as well.
- [01:13:33.360]Sampada Aranke: Well, what just came to my mind.
- [01:13:37.280]Dehmie Dehmlow: Was.
- [01:13:39.440]julia elizabeth neal: That some African American women artists in the 60s held multiple roles like I was thinking immediately about faith ringgold and.
- [01:13:50.240]julia elizabeth neal: Some of the posters that she created for Angela Davis, but also her own literary practice and then sort of over the course of two decades, we have somebody like Barbara chase for Bo as well, those might be two other names that.
- [01:14:06.000]Jamaica would be interested in I think that's a great question I, and I learned a lot.
- [01:14:13.280]Katie Anania: timmy did you want to introduce something that may I think end up being there our final question but I i'm.
- [01:14:20.600]i'm from.
- [01:14:23.240]Dehmie Dehmlow: yeah can you guys hear me now.
- [01:14:26.480]Dehmie Dehmlow: Okay i'm sorry I can unless somebody else has something they want to ask because mine is more like a response than a question I guess.
- [01:14:39.560]Dehmie Dehmlow: So I don't want to.
- [01:14:42.440]Dehmie Dehmlow: Okay, well, I just i'm.
- [01:14:45.360]Dehmie Dehmlow: Now i'm trying to remember who.
- [01:14:47.520]Dehmie Dehmlow: said this it's all boring but you know talking about this idea of.
- [01:14:54.880]Dehmie Dehmlow: Artists and making work about the self and for themselves and okay like what is like what does this self become in that instance, you know, the extension of self and like you talking about the feet and, like the extension of that self how it's like you know all black bodies and i'm.
- [01:15:16.760]Dehmie Dehmlow: Jamie I think that she's in here is another fellow Grad who we were having a conversation that basically we were problem typing the question that comes up in critiques a lot, whether like who's your audience.
- [01:15:33.440]Dehmie Dehmlow: And how we were like we just we feel like we can't put our finger on it, but a lot of times it feels like this is missing the point, because there are you.
- [01:15:42.200]Dehmie Dehmlow: Are you saying, like in jamie's case in particular, we were talking about like are you saying that my work needs to be more culpable Do I need to make it more accessible.
- [01:15:51.920]Dehmie Dehmlow: to people that are not like me or whatever, and how this it's like this really kind of illuminating I don't know form of like privilege right where it's like we i'm sorry I kind of lost my train of thought here but uh.
- [01:16:12.600]Dehmie Dehmlow: Just like.
- [01:16:14.320]Dehmie Dehmlow: You know, an art school and stuff you kind of our taught like you have to think about like how you work will exist in the world right and um.
- [01:16:25.920]Dehmie Dehmlow: yeah like how you're going to create a trajectory for it and things like that and it's like these artists that you're talking about.
- [01:16:33.280]Dehmie Dehmlow: Like Ben right Ben Carson I can't remember the first name but it's like I don't think that that like they're concerned about that so different than the way that we're trying to talk about it in this like art school sense so anyways it's just interesting like.
- [01:16:52.560]Dehmie Dehmlow: yeah that's it sorry.
- [01:16:58.240]julia elizabeth neal: I.
- [01:16:59.040]julia elizabeth neal: am going to be cheesy and add.
- [01:17:02.920]Allison Arkush: That Lorraine o'grady who is receiving some major attention in New York City right now.
- [01:17:10.240]julia elizabeth neal: And i'm going to to my home Horn just a little bit when I sat next to her Howard university during during the quarter colloquium.
- [01:17:18.680]julia elizabeth neal: 20 1624 I don't know 2014 to 2016 she had to have been like 75 actually said that it wasn't until then she realized who her audience was so.
- [01:17:35.680]julia elizabeth neal: I mean in terms of knowing your audience, I imagine it has some elasticity over time, you know and it might come and it might change that's my cheesy addition i'm so sorry to add that, but you know there's there are artists what is she she's now at 8684 80.
- [01:17:58.520]julia elizabeth neal: she's in her 80s and it seems like it's been an ongoing process, in contrast to her long term art production, since the 1980s.
- [01:18:09.960]Dehmie Dehmlow: yeah I think so much of what.
- [01:18:12.080]Dehmie Dehmlow: Jamie and I were talking about is how like.
- [01:18:15.640]Dehmie Dehmlow: really like that question you can't really answer in like one moment right and how like yeah it's like a constant thing we have we're thinking about as artists or not I don't know whatever but it's yeah it's like.
- [01:18:30.800]Dehmie Dehmlow: How do you answer it in a way that you can move on from it.
- [01:18:35.040]Dehmie Dehmlow: But then like I don't know it's just hard yeah.
- [01:18:40.960]Alexis Salas: I think something that's common amongst our projects is that.
- [01:18:45.640]Alexis Salas: And that's something to really consider in art history, at this moment is the fight against the universal so so many of us have been trained that.
- [01:18:57.640]Alexis Salas: There are almost like these, Carl Jung and archetypes that if we create this kind of image that it will mean the same thing to everyone, I think one of the powers of art is to reveal to us our own prejudices and our own ways of seeing and.
- [01:19:14.960]Alexis Salas: That this can allow us to see how limited our own perspective is that we all have these visual encyclopedias of cultural references that we carry around.
- [01:19:25.320]Alexis Salas: In some ways liberating us, allowing us to see the kind of reflection of different ideas.
- [01:19:31.160]Alexis Salas: And another ways handicap capping us and allowing us only to see what we already know in the world, so when you're asked this question of who your audiences.
- [01:19:41.920]Alexis Salas: In a very practical way I think there's something really wonderful and not knowing and trying to figure that out along the way, or or having a kind of faith that things will find their audience because.
- [01:19:56.000]Alexis Salas: The the art is doing the work of opening up possibilities of reading.
- [01:20:02.360]Alexis Salas: So yeah I think it's okay to dodge that question.
- [01:20:08.640]Allison Arkush: yeah I feel like recently.
- [01:20:11.480]Allison Arkush: i've been telling everyone to who I asked everyone, have you read the death of the author by Roland bards because I read that for the first time, about a year ago and i'm.
- [01:20:25.400]Allison Arkush: A plot yeah it was just like.
- [01:20:28.040]Allison Arkush: So great to realize that I.
- [01:20:34.040]Allison Arkush: It was okay to make work and relinquish control of whether or not people interpret it a certain way.
- [01:20:43.160]Allison Arkush: And that actually it's so cool to hear like to hear or to know that they're going to get this set of unrest set or.
- [01:20:53.000]Allison Arkush: pieces that have a meaning to me and that's aren't resolved to me so they're not gonna they're going to make something of it themselves that probably will involve some of the cues that i'm setting up in the work, but what they make of it is is.
- [01:21:09.680]Allison Arkush: It is.
- [01:21:12.880]Allison Arkush: It is not a correct or incorrect interpretation it's something like that I want to hear about it's part of the playing the playful space created with art of like.
- [01:21:27.680]Allison Arkush: I lost my train of thought to i'm sorry, you know it's it's I think demi and I both are like I don't know I feel like i'm in it so much right now that it's a little hard sometimes to synthesize.
- [01:21:41.840]Sampada Aranke: I just, can I just really quickly katie me like Alice what you just you know you're raising a bar, which brings us full circle write that essay was first published in 68 and Aspen art magazine.
- [01:21:53.080]Sampada Aranke: And so you know something that is associated with a certain kind of literary criticism actually had genesis and an English translation in an art and an art.
- [01:22:03.080]Sampada Aranke: Publication right and speaking of print and so we can think about like Okay, what is it that does some work for us it does some work for us, those of us that work.
- [01:22:13.280]Sampada Aranke: In the visual and the second part, I would say is like you know Alexis and Julia had such beautiful responses to this question, I think, maybe one way to pivot that question is to ask like maybe it's not audience, but maybe the question is like.
- [01:22:28.680]Sampada Aranke: How do you want somebody to look or how do you want somebody to feel or two cents, or to touch right if if optic ality is not your main sense right that you that you want somebody to take away and to kind of.
- [01:22:43.880]Sampada Aranke: Maybe not it's maybe the question isn't who but to redirect the question to have.
- [01:22:48.800]Sampada Aranke: and
- [01:22:49.280]Sampada Aranke: to redirect the question to the kind of sensorial apparatus and that's you know that's something that in in the way that I teach and i've learned, you know black artists have taken as a forefront right that the visual is always fraught, especially with the history of.
- [01:23:06.200]Sampada Aranke: blackness less right through surveillance and various modes of pen optic violence that have been taking place and.
- [01:23:14.720]Sampada Aranke: yeah since the middle passage and So how do we, how can, how can we ask somebody to look differently right or to look with the certain kind of attention.
- [01:23:24.920]Sampada Aranke: And that's not a question of like who you want your audience to be or who you know you're making work for but really like how you want somebody to experience a given work and what you want to prioritize at the level of.
- [01:23:38.880]Sampada Aranke: of you know sensorial apparatuses or something like that right, maybe even questions.
- [01:23:45.920]Katie Anania: This may be the thing that is so very alluring about assembling of visual history of publishable media of distributable media is that the.
- [01:23:56.120]Katie Anania: The the the work kind of locates itself within this matrix of gestures, you know that it is it's not separable in an in a strictly optical since it's not.
- [01:24:07.640]Katie Anania: it's not separable and in a strictly linguistic sense that it builds its language out of this kind of behavioral assemblage that is.
- [01:24:15.720]Katie Anania: Reading that is living that's seeing things, and you know, in your everyday life, so this it feels just I mean, of course, we could I could.
- [01:24:29.120]Katie Anania: be here all night and there's so much more to say, but it This strikes me as a nice way to kind of.
- [01:24:36.080]Katie Anania: diagnose the possibilities or predict the possibilities of paper and the like neo liberal digitized age is that.
- [01:24:44.960]Katie Anania: it's you know, like this is a set of behavioral scripts reading carrying things around throwing things away that is both familiar and.
- [01:24:56.200]Katie Anania: Very detached from I think the circuits of like making yourself visible as a maker within the culture industry, so you know, maybe with that line of escape it's a nice kind of moment to conclude Karen do you have thoughts.
- [01:25:14.200]iPad: Oh no I have nothing else that no Thank you everyone that was awesome I enjoyed this so much I could I could sit here all night, and this, this is awesome.
- [01:25:22.840]iPad: yeah Thank you.
- [01:25:23.840]Katie Anania: Thank you so much for your.
- [01:25:26.040]Katie Anania: For your ideas everyone and for.
- [01:25:28.000]Katie Anania: Bringing yourselves here and thank you to to.
- [01:25:32.840]Katie Anania: Sam and Alexis and Julia and Karen and for kind of engaging in this somewhat speculative, but I think really wonderful format.
- [01:25:43.120]Katie Anania: Thank you everyone.
- [01:25:44.480]Sampada Aranke: Thanks guys, you know.
- [01:25:46.560]Katie Anania: Yes, it was so good to see all your faces.
- [01:25:54.840]Katie Anania: That was wonderful and then there's this question of propriety you know I saw this kind of festooned across all of these projects, the way that.
- [01:26:07.000]Katie Anania: You know the like Jackie Kennedy falling off her horses juxtapose between all of these like gestures and movements and contemporary dance and the really.
- [01:26:18.880]Katie Anania: You know that, like even the the implied impropriety of the naked foot of the shoeless foot feels so much like it registers in an important way in these like in these kinds of distributable media that are themselves unruly, but let me know I mean maybe i'm romanticizing things.
- [01:26:38.360]Katie Anania: But yeah it just feels like this is a medium that becomes central to the way that we disengage and dislodge from.
- [01:26:49.760]Katie Anania: Sixth circuits and media, maybe.
- [01:26:57.600]julia elizabeth neal: I want to say thank you again katie before I log off.
- [01:27:01.640]Katie Anania: Laughter planned around his writing which actor was really miss gay and it's nice to dip my toes and two people who are much more.
- [01:27:11.760]prepared for printmaking strategies you guys take care.
- [01:27:16.280]Katie Anania: All right, bye everyone.
- [01:27:19.840]nice to see you.
- [01:27:22.080]Okay.
- [01:27:25.080]Katie Anania: Think now, this is an interesting kind of flexible space here.
- [01:27:28.200]Katie Anania: Because we now I think i'm on with the speakers and about 19 people, and this is where Ideally, we would have some kind of an after party either casually and within the like space of the theater within which we usually host people.
- [01:27:46.960]Katie Anania: And also, but we can't, but of course we can't do that.
- [01:27:51.360]Katie Anania: So I think i'll just say goodbye again and stop the recording let this kind of live as is and just thank you guys, once again we really appreciate it.
- [01:28:04.520]Katie Anania: ciao bye everyone.
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