The Role of the Odor Footprint Tool in Livestock Nuisance Litigation (Jan. 21, 2021 Webinar)
With Dave Aiken, Professor and Water and Agricultural Law Specialist, UNL Agricultural Economics, and Rick Stowell, Animal Environment Extension Specialist, UNL Animal Science.
In a recent Nebraska Supreme Court decision, Egan v. County of Lancaster, the court ruled that a county zoning permit for three poultry barns was justified in part because neighbors would be free of objectionable odors 94% of the time. This webinar explores this decision and the potential role of the odor footprint tool in future livestock nuisance litigation.
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[00:00:28.890]Elliott Dennis: Well, good afternoon, and thanks for everyone for joining our webinar today. I'm Ellie Dennis assistant professor
[00:00:35.550]Elliott Dennis: Of wife stuck marketing and risk management from the Department of Agriculture economics at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln.
[00:00:42.360]Elliott Dennis: This webinar that we're putting on today is part of the extension department ranch management teams, commonly referred to as through the acronym farm.
[00:00:51.930]Elliott Dennis: The week their weekly webinar series that is held each Thursday from 12 to 1pm central Daylight Time complete listing of future and past recordings can be found at farm that you know that edu.
[00:01:06.870]Elliott Dennis: Would like to point out the rural Nebraska real response on
[00:01:11.430]Elliott Dennis: Which remains a great resource for AG professionals across the state. And it provides mental health counseling information regarding legal assistance financial clinics mediation and much, much more.
[00:01:22.410]Elliott Dennis: The hotlines toll free number is 1-800-464-0258 and we also have a wealth of resources related to stress well being at rural wellness dot you know even on today's webinar.
[00:01:37.650]Elliott Dennis: Today, this webinar will look at recent Nebraska Supreme Court decision that code the validity of a permit for livestock operation Lancaster County, in part because quote neighbors would be free of odors 94% of the time and quote
[00:01:52.770]Elliott Dennis: To discuss this case and the role of you knows order flippant tool and and potential future livestock nuisance litigation.
[00:02:00.660]Elliott Dennis: Is my calling and apartment of agricultural economics bacon, who is a professor and agriculture law and water boss specialists.
[00:02:10.080]Elliott Dennis: Dave joined the staff in 1975 and has published over 100 technical and particular publications dealing with water rights, environmental law and Ag law.
[00:02:20.040]Elliott Dennis: He teaches online undergraduate courses and culture law environmental a natural resource on also joining us to discuss the order footprint tool is a member of
[00:02:30.060]Elliott Dennis: That team Rick SCO animal environmental extensive specialist on which has a joint appointment into biological systems engineering and the Department of Agriculture science.
[00:02:41.160]Elliott Dennis: Riches outreach and research interests focuses on improving air quality in and around livestock and culture facilities.
[00:02:47.910]Elliott Dennis: Mitigating thermal stress and livestock and poultry and also in facility design for optimal environmental management.
[00:02:54.900]Elliott Dennis: He also has a teaching appointment here and teachers undergraduate courses in math mechanized systems management.
[00:03:01.860]Elliott Dennis: Rick is it was concentrated or it is BS, MS and Engineering from the University of Wisconsin Madison and the PhD for Michigan State University. Rick has also been with us for a long time that you know joining the faculty in 2001 Thanks Rick and Dave for joining us today.
[00:03:22.080]Elliott Dennis: And with that, let's go ahead and get started and Dave Akin will begin and welcome to the webinar date.
[00:03:39.690]Dave Aiken: Okay.
[00:03:42.420]Dave Aiken: Just a quick overview
[00:03:45.930]Dave Aiken: Neighbors sued to try to invalidate a zoning permit for
[00:03:54.570]Dave Aiken: The producer to construct, I believe, free checking Barnes.
[00:04:00.240]Dave Aiken: Which we're going to end up supplying chickens to the Costco plant in Fremont, and the district court ruled in favor of the producer and the Brassica Supreme Court also upheld is only permit and for the producer, the Court.
[00:04:17.700]Dave Aiken: Referred to the point is the owner footprint tool analysis, indicating that in the in the immediate vicinity of the livestock facility.
[00:04:29.430]Dave Aiken: It would be older free 94% of the time, which was an indication that the county had considered public health, safety and welfare when they granted the permit.
[00:04:42.390]Dave Aiken: And the big takeaway is that
[00:04:45.750]Dave Aiken: You know, the footprint tool I think is going to become a common feature and future livestock nuisance.
[00:04:54.390]Dave Aiken: Losses down the road.
[00:04:58.260]Dave Aiken: Okay, our producer, he wanted to do a
[00:05:04.290]Dave Aiken: poultry production contract with LinkedIn premium poultry or processing the poultry and then for Costco.
[00:05:12.300]Dave Aiken: The land where the facility would be located is an egg agricultural district in Lancaster County.
[00:05:20.610]Dave Aiken: They applied for their zoning permit in 2018 it was approved by the planning commission 62 three
[00:05:29.970]Dave Aiken: After public hearing the county board approved at three to two. So as a pretty tight vote indicating I think that the permit was was controversial in Lancaster County.
[00:05:42.240]Dave Aiken: To neighbors appealed the zoning permit.
[00:05:47.130]Dave Aiken: The grant of the zoning permits. They said the county shouldn't have done it one neighbor who was a little under 13 miles away was ultimately dismissed because they couldn't prove that the facility was going to
[00:06:02.190]Dave Aiken: Create any nuisance for them. But the other neighbor lived six tenths of a mile away and they were the one that got to pursue, pursue the lawsuit.
[00:06:13.260]Dave Aiken: Now the nutrient management plan in terms of how the maneuver was going to be managed and and you know applied to land for crop production or whatever consultant prepared that plan for the
[00:06:31.320]Dave Aiken: Producer the county's zoning person testified that the permit, you know, with the conditions that the they had the county had put forward and the
[00:06:46.020]Dave Aiken: Producer had agreed to implement that it would meet or exceed ALL OF THE COUNTY ZONING requirements. So they're sold the county was was good with it.
[00:06:56.730]Dave Aiken: The project was also approved by the Nebraska Department environment and energy, who does the
[00:07:03.330]Dave Aiken: concentrated animal feeding operation permitting for the State of Nebraska. Also, the lower plat south in or d which is being Rd that you know the Lancaster County is as part of
[00:07:17.010]Dave Aiken: Looked at, it probably for the maneuver management, you know, slash water quality impacts and then also the Lancaster County Health Department who
[00:07:28.560]Dave Aiken: Administers state air permits for the department environment, energy
[00:07:36.840]Dave Aiken: Okay and District Court ruled in late in October of 2019 they said the one who was nearly 13 miles away did not have standing to bring the lawsuit, because it wasn't going to affect them either way.
[00:07:51.990]Dave Aiken: And then it said that you know the poker operation meets or exceeds all the requirements that the county has for the zoning permits and and ruled that the grant by the county of the zoning permit was was legal, they've met all the legal requirements to do it.
[00:08:13.170]Dave Aiken: Okay, so then they appeal to the Supreme Court and the decision just came down last December. So it's fairly recent and the Supreme Court ruled that the 13 mile neighbor was was properly dismissed from the lawsuit.
[00:08:28.860]Dave Aiken: And the neighbors.
[00:08:31.590]Dave Aiken: Excuse me, the neighbor who was still legally in the lawsuit. The one those six tenths of a mile away.
[00:08:38.460]Dave Aiken: They relied largely on testimony from the public members of the public who opposed the new fulcrum poultry facility saying that, you know, they thought it was going to smell and you know it's going to hurt property values and and those sorts of common
[00:08:56.100]Dave Aiken: Concerns that are raised when these when these zoning types was owning a lifestyle zoning permits are granted.
[00:09:02.910]Dave Aiken: And they used on this public testimony to support the contention that granting the permit would not protect the public health, safety and welfare, which is the ultimate legal standard for
[00:09:16.860]Dave Aiken: Zoning permits and the Supreme Court in this opinion, notice that there was testimony from county officials that really contradicted. Most of the most of the public testimony.
[00:09:30.390]Dave Aiken: And you know you've got you basically got neighbors who don't have any particular technical expertise and butter saying that on that you know that they have that many chickens.
[00:09:44.790]Dave Aiken: You know in our neighborhood. It's going to smell bad. And there's going to be, you know, dust and odors and and and whatever. And it's going to
[00:09:54.390]Dave Aiken: Hurt property values and we're not going to be able to go outside, because you know all this nuisance and stuff like that and you know that testimony candidly is fairly subjective.
[00:10:08.220]Dave Aiken: And
[00:10:09.840]Dave Aiken: You know, and that's, that's one of the problems with these things because you don't usually don't have anything very specific or, you know, concrete that you can put your hands on.
[00:10:21.660]Dave Aiken: In terms of, you know, is this thing going to create a nuisance for the neighbors or not, you know, that's so that's a big problem in in this type of this type of litigation and but in these circumstances, the courts will normally
[00:10:36.390]Dave Aiken: You know, I mean, they'll, they'll look at what the, what the public says, but also look at what are the what are the actual
[00:10:43.290]Dave Aiken: Regulator say, you know, the environmental regulators, the public health regulators, the zoning regulators, you know, what do they have to say because they have some expertise, they've dealt with these things before. And so they're
[00:10:55.050]Dave Aiken: The course tend to to look at that testimony, a little bit more. And I find it a little bit. I think more credible.
[00:11:04.560]Dave Aiken: Okay.
[00:11:06.330]Dave Aiken: The neighbor.
[00:11:08.160]Dave Aiken: That was six tenths of a mile away. So that would, you know, could produce the elders reduced property value, but it looks like there wasn't a she didn't have any consultants in there to try to bolster her case. And this is very common in these types of lawsuits. You know that
[00:11:25.320]Dave Aiken: The neighbors had hoped that the county board would turn it down.
[00:11:29.400]Dave Aiken: But they, you know, but three to two approved it. So, it showed that it's pretty close. If they could have flipped one county board member, you know, they would have wanted, they would have had to sue anybody, but after the county board approved it. Then they go to the lawyer, and you know lawyers.
[00:11:44.700]Dave Aiken: Is basically working that lawsuit with one hand tied behind their back because they didn't have a chance to, you know, develop some more credible evidence of what kind of a nuisance might this
[00:11:57.750]Dave Aiken: Might this facility create so you know that's so that makes it tough for the objectors it gives a little bit of a leg up to the to the producer in terms of in terms of how the case will play out of court.
[00:12:14.880]Dave Aiken: Why I was reading this opinion.
[00:12:17.820]Dave Aiken: The next the last page of the opinion and then Alaska Supreme Court referred to this institute of ag natural resources tool.
[00:12:28.080]Dave Aiken: You know that had been developed that estimated that this is a direct quote from the Court's opinion that even the immediate immediate vicinity of their proposed facility would be free of the other 94% of the time, and I knew that that was the elder footprint to old
[00:12:45.180]Dave Aiken: Which is, you know, something that the university has has has had in its portfolio for for several years and as a valuable tool for
[00:12:57.030]Dave Aiken: The sighting and the design of livestock facilities and so I knew that that was the tool of the court was referring to. And you know the say say free voter 94% of the time that's that's that's a typical type of result from the older footprint. So
[00:13:18.240]Dave Aiken: Just very quickly, the Lancaster health department testified that it would ensure producer was using resource controls as required in the state livestock permit and
[00:13:32.100]Dave Aiken: So they went on that to say that the zoning permit was properly granted. And at this point, I'm going to pause and
[00:13:42.990]Dave Aiken: Turn it over to Rick stole and let him talk about the
[00:13:50.460]Dave Aiken: Tool itself.
[00:13:53.310]Elliott Dennis: Thanks, Dave. Yeah, welcome.
[00:13:54.840]Rick Stowell: ALL RIGHT, DAVE.
[00:13:56.490]Elliott Dennis: Also have to
[00:13:57.630]Elliott Dennis: As a reminder, if you have questions as we're going through and
[00:14:01.260]Elliott Dennis: Don't feel free to hold on to them till the end. Put them in the Q AMP a box or the chat box and
[00:14:07.830]Elliott Dennis: either myself or one of the speakers will address them either during the presentation or at the end.
[00:14:18.540]Rick Stowell: So let me know if it's not showing, but I think my presentations up and ready to go. So what I'm going to do is present an overview of a brief overview of the older footprint do. I'm not sure we're seeing it.
[00:14:32.970]Rick Stowell: We're not seeing that you're not
[00:14:37.980]Rick Stowell: I never clicked a share. There we go. No, thank you.
[00:14:44.280]Rick Stowell: Few buttons. So Rick dog dental specialist in animal environment. And I'm going to present a quick overview of wrath. Go to footprint tool.
[00:14:53.880]Rick Stowell: Really the footprint tools about assessing order risk and estimating
[00:14:59.940]Rick Stowell: minimum separation distances needed to
[00:15:03.720]Rick Stowell: Keep the order risk at certain levels.
[00:15:07.260]Rick Stowell: And I just know that I am
[00:15:10.800]Rick Stowell: My name is the only one on here. This tool was developed by a group of us at the university about 15 years ago is the main work and some of those people have retired or moved on and but I've been the main extending contact for the old equipment tool.
[00:15:30.390]Rick Stowell: From the early days, so
[00:15:33.060]Rick Stowell: I would be the one anyone who would contact about the use of the tool in practice.
[00:15:39.330]Rick Stowell: So what is in the rack older footprint tool. It's a planning tool. What that means is hopefully
[00:15:46.680]Rick Stowell: You use the tool or have somebody working with you use the tool. Early in the planning and not not coming to find out about it, a week before
[00:15:59.040]Rick Stowell: The meet with the township or the Zoning Board. It's a simple tool, at least in our opinion, that means is an Excel spreadsheet or it's also available in a hard copy which worksheets and tables. So the Excel spreadsheet would be the preferred
[00:16:18.570]Rick Stowell: Application. If you're have a cookie cutter type situation such as roller houses or deep it finished environment that type of thing, the worksheet.
[00:16:32.040]Rick Stowell: Do allow some flexibility in terms of
[00:16:36.090]Rick Stowell: Broader use
[00:16:38.040]Rick Stowell: We are in development of web based platform. So hopefully within a year, we will have something that
[00:16:46.620]Rick Stowell: Will be integrated with Google Earth or some imagery, which is something a lot of people desire and I'll just mentioned this, the science.
[00:16:56.340]Rick Stowell: The deep science went into the dispersion modeling and use of weather data. The good news for people using this tool is is that was all front end work. So basically, you don't have to worry about.
[00:17:10.860]Rick Stowell: Anybody doing dispersion modeling and he actually uses and rescue order footprint.
[00:17:16.350]Rick Stowell: So a couple of objectives behind the
[00:17:19.680]Rick Stowell: Order footprint tool is first and foremost, we want to increase the use of objective science based information when people are making decisions about last act facilities and older. So I think that was the main message that came out in this court case is that
[00:17:37.260]Rick Stowell: The producer and the people who evaluated that situation were did their best effort. It's not perfect, but they did their best effort to to use
[00:17:48.150]Rick Stowell: objective science based information. The other objective we have is to encourage voluntary implementation of order control technologies and you'll see in other states and some counties where they've mandated certain practices that are can be very
[00:18:06.480]Rick Stowell: Costly to the producer and we wanted to encourage an alternative to that and and give them cost benefit opportunities to producers.
[00:18:21.450]Rick Stowell: So I need to talk a little bit about older risk. What that what is that in order risk is that predicted percentage of hours or frequency of time over an extended period of time. So we're talking we had at least
[00:18:38.820]Rick Stowell: 10 years of data and and tried to get 15 whatever that was available of weather data. So we're looking at not a typical year if we're looking at longer periods of time and then did the modeling to see how often would the order levels at locations be
[00:19:00.960]Rick Stowell: at levels that
[00:19:02.910]Rick Stowell: We found from
[00:19:06.720]Rick Stowell: Interacting with neighbors to be annoying or would change their behavior and two ways to express this either half cut glass half full or half empty approach. And so one way to look at it as
[00:19:23.040]Rick Stowell: Could be annoying older levels one to 10% of the time, or it could be free of annoyed or levels 90 to 99% of the time. And we've chosen to go with the 90 to 99% older annoying free and look at that as a bar or some milestone that producers in their planning can try to increase or improve
[00:19:51.840]Rick Stowell: So Cutting right to the results of using the spreadsheet tool.
[00:19:57.270]Rick Stowell: Focus on the bottom here.
[00:19:59.880]Rick Stowell: Going off my cursor is showing but on there's a table at as a setback distance in miles and four columns. So we look at four primary directions in this case will be Northeast, Southeast southwest and Northwest
[00:20:17.340]Rick Stowell: And so there's different separation distances for each direction. And you'll notice that northeast northwest are the
[00:20:26.790]Rick Stowell: Longest separation distances and that coincides with prevailing wind here in the warm season of Nebraska.
[00:20:34.800]Rick Stowell: And then the roads are are organized by the older annoyance free frequency so
[00:20:42.900]Rick Stowell: The highest level of risk at 90% owner annoyance free to the lowest level of risk. There are 99% order noise free. You can also see that the numbers.
[00:20:54.090]Rick Stowell: Change with the frequency and they get larger as as you want to minimize that risk. So that's kind of what it what the results look like and
[00:21:06.180]Rick Stowell: I'll just highlight a couple things here. And the results are available publicly available for six primary locations or regions in the state. And so the idea is that if you lived in sailing county here, you would probably go and use the Beatrice or
[00:21:24.810]Rick Stowell: Data that weather data that we are using for Southeast Nebraska. If you're in New York County or something like that. You might look at a couple of different weather stations information and kind of use that to inform your decision.
[00:21:42.030]Rick Stowell: If we look in I don't
[00:21:45.000]Rick Stowell: Most people don't use the paper version, but it's really pretty intuitive. So I'm just going to highlight what this says.
[00:21:52.500]Rick Stowell: On the biome scale the x axis. There's an order admission rate. And so we collect some information or the spreadsheet, ask for information and type of facility and size in terms of the floor area and then
[00:22:09.180]Rick Stowell: That'll give ordinary admission rate project older admission rate. And then we scale up we move up until we get to what
[00:22:17.400]Rick Stowell: One of the order risk avoidance curve that we want to use. I'm not suggesting we use 98% it's just easy viewing and if we start out at two and follow that.
[00:22:29.760]Rick Stowell: That blue line up to 98% older noise free curve and then slide to the left. It gives us the separation distance of at least six tenths of a mile to maintain that kind of
[00:22:44.130]Rick Stowell: minimize that risk to that that level.
[00:22:47.940]Rick Stowell: So a couple of things I will bring up at this stage pretty important.
[00:22:52.620]Rick Stowell: One is that the science is in the curse. It's not in the selection of the curve.
[00:22:59.010]Rick Stowell: So the data that's in each one of these curves is supported by
[00:23:05.790]Rick Stowell: Science based modeling.
[00:23:08.130]Rick Stowell: Whether 94% or 96% or 98% is the right term to be using is not based on science. That's it. That's a judgment and putting in reasonable
[00:23:24.960]Rick Stowell: Discretion so things like is it egg zoned would go should go into that that discussion. If it's not, not egg one zone, then it might be a different than curve. That would be used
[00:23:39.480]Rick Stowell: also point out that a few counties have adopted.
[00:23:44.970]Rick Stowell: adopted this most of the time they're looking at 94% but we have a couple of counties that have adopted the order footprint to 96% so that hopefully was based on interaction with the county and residents to come up with a decision there that met their needs are their values.
[00:24:07.320]Rick Stowell: So real briefly, I'm just going to show some uses common uses for the record or footprint tool.
[00:24:14.550]Rick Stowell: Those include checking their improving sighting of proposal facilities.
[00:24:19.500]Rick Stowell: Looking at the impact of utilizing order control and helping to inform policy making that the county level.
[00:24:28.800]Rick Stowell: So I'm not going to go through this in detail just looking at a situation made up situation that's nice to visualize if I'm producer is looking to put a facility in the corner of a section.
[00:24:44.280]Rick Stowell: At the intersection of roads.
[00:24:47.250]Rick Stowell: That would be x if they may be logistically less desirable location would be away from the intersection, we can take a look at this. Each one of those squares is this is publicly available information on the Internet. Each of those is the residence and I can look at
[00:25:05.790]Rick Stowell: Different zones of voter risk and identify the number of residences, that would be in those different zones. And so I've got
[00:25:14.520]Rick Stowell: Five residences between the, the blue. The 94% and the 98% order annoyance free curves and if I move that down to lie and drop that down to only two and they're kind of at the outer rim of that at the intermediate risk zone and so
[00:25:35.190]Rick Stowell: Helping. Helping people visualize what this looks like can help them make more informed decisions.
[00:25:45.270]Rick Stowell: We can do is is show the benefit of voter control. So a question I get a lot of times is request. What's the dollar benefit of
[00:25:55.320]Rick Stowell: To a producer of spending money on an order control technology. And that's really hard to do. So this is the best that I've been able to present to them is
[00:26:07.980]Rick Stowell: The red line would be the
[00:26:10.890]Rick Stowell: The
[00:26:13.380]Rick Stowell: Areas that would be within the footprint and I'm just showing 98% so easier to see. I'm not recommending 98% of just doing it for visual and at still at that 98% the blue line. So the reduced area that's impacted by order.
[00:26:32.040]Rick Stowell: At that order risk level. So this is something that producers tend to like to see and give them some idea of what their benefit. What benefit. They're getting for the economic investment, they're making
[00:26:47.310]Rick Stowell: The last thing I'll show is the other footprint tool has been utilized and in helping counties make decisions on policy.
[00:26:57.270]Rick Stowell: What I usually see is there will be a advocates on the left side here that there are only interested in or mostly interested in promoting expansion of animal agriculture.
[00:27:08.220]Rick Stowell: And then you'll have folks on the other side, who are are exclusively interested in protecting residents and where we want to be with our objective information is in the middle there, encouraging responsible growth.
[00:27:23.160]Rick Stowell: So that's kind of the approach I come into when I, when I talk with the county commissioners zoning officials and residents.
[00:27:33.930]Rick Stowell: So with that, I'm going to just provide my information, hopefully of foster some questions. And I'm going to turn it back over to the data.
[00:27:44.250]Elliott Dennis: Extract appreciate you sharing more information about the order proven true will now go back to Dave Akin where we'll finish up kind of the conversation about the Nebraska Supreme Court decision.
[00:28:19.080]Dave Aiken: Sorry, everybody. I've gotta turn my
[00:28:22.560]Dave Aiken: Voice back on. Now I will share
[00:28:37.830]Dave Aiken: Okay.
[00:28:39.600]Dave Aiken: Thank you, Rick. That was very informative and I just like to
[00:28:44.910]Dave Aiken: reemphasize one point that I draw from, from Rick's a presentation is that, and that is, is if you're worried about whether you're going to get your COUNTY ZONING permit or not, you know, having the
[00:29:04.050]Dave Aiken: Visual Information like like on his next last slide that well if we didn't implement this particular odor control technology, which we're not legally required by anybody to do. But, you know, but if we were to go ahead and do that this would
[00:29:24.180]Dave Aiken: Reduce the area of, you know, where there might be some level of outer interference.
[00:29:31.650]Dave Aiken: And and reduce it, you know, fairly substantially in the example that that represented
[00:29:37.740]Dave Aiken: And I think if you want to get some goodwill from the community and from the Zoning Board and from the county board if you can say, look,
[00:29:46.020]Dave Aiken: We're making this additional financial investment and I tell them how much money it was especially if it's significant. The more it is, the more they're going to be impressed. We're spending X number of dollars to reduce the odors from our proposed facility.
[00:30:01.650]Dave Aiken: You know that's going to that. Should I would expect, excuse me, I would expect that would get you a lot of goodwill.
[00:30:08.250]Dave Aiken: And people say, golly, this you know they're they're spending money. They really don't need to spend to try to, you know, try to reduce any owner issues associated with their facility.
[00:30:19.410]Dave Aiken: So you know they're going the extra mile, we ought to meet them halfway. You know that that's that would be
[00:30:25.950]Dave Aiken: I would hope that that would be the outcome, but I think that that would be a good case.
[00:30:31.050]Dave Aiken: A good case to make and showing that you're you're going above and beyond to to do something about the elders, which is the big thing that neighbors worry about
[00:30:40.680]Dave Aiken: Really, I mean they'll talk about groundwater quality and everything else, but they're really, they're really concerned about the older that is going to be. That's going to be a big plus.
[00:30:52.260]Dave Aiken: In terms of in terms of zoning. On the other hand, going in with the attitude that that well you know this is going to provide
[00:30:59.130]Dave Aiken: A better market for green leaf great producers and whatever. And you know, so you're lucky to have us if that's your attitude, you know, you're, you're going to hit probably going to have a little bit more trouble.
[00:31:13.740]Dave Aiken: Okay well and getting back to our case or our Supreme Court case, the Court ruled that the granting of the zoning permits and all the legal requirements.
[00:31:26.400]Dave Aiken: And that was a seven to zero decision. So that's, that's pretty good. It doesn't get better than that.
[00:31:33.810]Dave Aiken: And we, you know, so that's that's a plus on the on the producer side.
[00:31:40.590]Dave Aiken: And one issue is, is that I mentioned earlier, I think when when we started this is that
[00:31:49.080]Dave Aiken: Until we had something like Yoder footprint tool.
[00:31:53.070]Dave Aiken: The information that you had is really, that's, that's usually the what courts have to look at in these cases, or even a county board has to look at in terms of whether the grants permit or not.
[00:32:07.980]Dave Aiken: Most of the information is very subjective. You know it peaks like you know it's those things always smell bad you know and and and that and so that
[00:32:18.060]Dave Aiken: That makes it and they're probably in the past have been, you know, livestock facilities that, you know, would not have been that much of an older problem that were denied because
[00:32:28.170]Dave Aiken: There was a big, you know, the whole county turned out and everybody testified against it before the county board and the county board is kind of scared into approving it
[00:32:39.090]Dave Aiken: And in the absence of something that can provide
[00:32:43.350]Dave Aiken: Some quantitative information regarding. What's the, what's the level of the order and stuff like that.
[00:32:50.880]Dave Aiken: You know, it's something like that can happen. The, the big advantage at the older footprint is that it does provide some quite a face some numeric indication of, you know,
[00:33:06.690]Dave Aiken: How much
[00:33:08.280]Dave Aiken: Older annoyance. Are people within different distances from the facility.
[00:33:15.060]Dave Aiken: You know what, what is that, and you know 96 to 94, you know, something like that, you know, you're in that ballpark. That's pretty good.
[00:33:23.880]Dave Aiken: And that's, and that gives policymakers or decision or decision makers, whether it's, you know, the Zoning Board, whether it's the county board or whether it's a judge.
[00:33:36.390]Dave Aiken: Or the Supreme Court. It gives them some
[00:33:41.460]Dave Aiken: Better than a ballpark estimate of what we're looking at in terms of how much older the older is going to be
[00:33:49.590]Dave Aiken: And you know, when they see that it's you know that you're going to be older free 94% of the time or 96% of the time or or whatever it happens to be. They said, Well, you know, in an eggs. Oh.
[00:34:01.290]Dave Aiken: There's always going to be livestock and you know when you're moving around the county, you're going to, you're going to smell livestock voters from time to time but 94%
[00:34:11.520]Dave Aiken: odor free looks pretty good. And I'm you know I'm reading prior to read the wine and the judges here, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to see that they see that and they said, Man, that's, that's an A, maybe even an A plus
[00:34:28.590]Dave Aiken: You know, that was pretty good. So that's that is really helpful in terms of sorting through the
[00:34:38.130]Dave Aiken: The noise, as it were, of all the public testimony and stuff about how this is, you know,
[00:34:45.960]Dave Aiken: All all water is going to polluted never and everyone's going to die or something like this. The, the doomsday scenario that is going to occur if this livestock operation is
[00:34:56.400]Dave Aiken: Is approved and you know this sends the message that well you know it's not going to be certainly not gonna be anything. It's not gonna be a doomsday outcome. You know, it looks like it's going to be a pretty pretty decent operation overall
[00:35:12.990]Dave Aiken: Now, down the road, you know, said 94% that's turns out in there's 2020 you know 22 days for there will be
[00:35:21.480]Dave Aiken: odors that will be noticeable and perhaps objectionable. And I would not be surprised to see if we have future litigation on the score that
[00:35:33.180]Dave Aiken: You know that that will be something that will be presented to judges and they'll have to they'll have to try to, you know, decide how much is too much and bad
[00:35:44.070]Dave Aiken: But in this case, they said, point, two days.
[00:35:47.880]Dave Aiken: Is not unreasonable in an egg zoning district.
[00:35:53.100]Dave Aiken: If it had been a world was eventually district or something like that. Maybe it would have been an easy call, but in a in an agricultural district. It is an easier call
[00:36:05.100]Dave Aiken: But there's no nobody can give you a guarantee that 94% you're never going to have any legal trouble, you know, neighbors, may you may
[00:36:14.880]Dave Aiken: Have neighbors that have been engaged in the family feud for going back two or three generations and they'll spend several thousand dollars on a lawsuit, if, if only to
[00:36:25.560]Dave Aiken: You know, for the inconvenience factor that they cause you and having to defend your lawsuit. So yeah, that's nobody can. Nobody can make guarantees, but I think that it's a I think that it's likely that
[00:36:39.360]Dave Aiken: This older footprint analysis does be a staple in a very common feature of this litigation in the future and
[00:36:47.580]Dave Aiken: You know, as, as this unfolds lawyers are going to win the if the owner footprint comes back and it's it's at 96% or 94% or something like that.
[00:37:00.840]Dave Aiken: They're going to say, look, you know, this is going to be tough, because it doesn't look like the order is going to be that bad. You know that most of the time you're not even going to know it's there and, you know, so are you sure you want to spend money on this lawsuit or not so
[00:37:19.770]Dave Aiken: If we do have lawsuits in the future.
[00:37:23.790]Dave Aiken: And it'd be you know it'd be wonderful if the solar footprint made all these lawsuits go away. I mean, if they if everybody comes in with a high score in terms of, you know, only
[00:37:36.330]Dave Aiken: Four or five or 6% interference and the lawyer say you know that i mean it's your money. But you, it may not be really worth it because there's not a great shot at winning this case.
[00:37:51.330]Dave Aiken: You know, it's just going to be the people that are down there in the 80s or something like that who are
[00:37:55.890]Dave Aiken: Going to, you know, they're the ones that they say, yeah, we can you know we've got it. We got a good chance at winning this lawsuit, because
[00:38:02.400]Dave Aiken: This operators not doing very much or they're just so big and so close that even though they're doing everything they can. It's still a fair amount of
[00:38:12.120]Dave Aiken: Over 10% of odor interference that you know that begins to look like, you know, that may be that may be a problem for the producer, so it'll be very interesting to see how this plays out in the long run, but I'm hopeful that
[00:38:29.700]Dave Aiken: That the improved information may make less of the
[00:38:36.660]Dave Aiken: You know,
[00:38:38.070]Dave Aiken: That the lawsuits really are just for the cases where there really isn't a problem for the neighbors and
[00:38:47.010]Dave Aiken: And the ones where the interferences is, you know, five or 6% of something like that.
[00:38:55.050]Dave Aiken: They're going to you know that more of those lawsuits will be filed. I mean, we'll see. But, you know, the better you're the better your own footprint score. I'd say the better chance you have of not being taken to court over the others.
[00:39:12.570]Dave Aiken: Okay, I think that will
[00:39:15.870]Dave Aiken: Will do it for me. So I will
[00:39:19.620]Dave Aiken: stop sharing and we can move ahead to the Q AMP. A. Thanks. Yeah.
[00:39:25.650]Elliott Dennis: Thanks, Dave. Thanks, Rick for providing information back about the court case and also the kind of the importance of using that the order footprint tool and Rick really explaining it really well with that tool is and how with us.
[00:39:39.300]Elliott Dennis: A couple questions came in while we were talking. This one's for Dave, just to clarify this case come out of the Nebraska Supreme Court or the US Supreme Court.
[00:39:50.160]Dave Aiken: BC. This is the Nebraska Supreme Court.
[00:39:52.920]Elliott Dennis: Nebraska Supreme Court. Great.
[00:39:55.800]Elliott Dennis: Awesome. Also, Chris.
[00:39:58.170]Elliott Dennis: BOSH get from a fan formula with Nebraska dairy with the order fulfillment tool be beneficial to added the lifestyle exciting matrix. And what would the downside be and maybe the
[00:40:11.190]Elliott Dennis: Rick if you wouldn't mind addressing that.
[00:40:16.650]Rick Stowell: Okay, it is a
[00:40:18.900]Rick Stowell: It is incorporated as an optional element of the matrix.
[00:40:26.160]Rick Stowell: Couple things came out. One of those is that a line in the sand in development of the matrix. So I was on the matrix Development Committee.
[00:40:35.880]Rick Stowell: And and one of the lines that was drawn in the sand is that the counties would not budge on making sure that setbacks county setbacks whatever was adopted at the county level had to remain as a
[00:40:52.500]Rick Stowell: Major element of the
[00:40:54.960]Rick Stowell: Getting a passing score and in the in the matrix and but the other use of the order corporate tool was used to develop recommended setbacks. So the county not obligated to use the recommended setbacks. What matters is what they have on the book.
[00:41:19.290]Rick Stowell: But the PR tool was used to inform our recommended setbacks at 94% owner annoyed three
[00:41:31.800]Elliott Dennis: Okay, let's uh another one. This is for you recall. So how was whether taken into account for the older proofing tool and is this that multi year average or is this, this may be explained a little bit about how weathers incorporated into that.
[00:41:47.910]Rick Stowell: So this gets into the dispersion modeling and it's a good question. There's no averaging being done on a net scale. So we went back and they're pretty sophisticated tools even more not so nowadays, but back 15 years ago we were using
[00:42:07.800]Rick Stowell: A tool called air mod, and that was that enabled us to use our early weather data from
[00:42:16.980]Rick Stowell: Higher class weather stations around the state.
[00:42:21.240]Rick Stowell: And we had to search pretty pretty hard for good weather station to using the sand hills, but we found what we think
[00:42:30.930]Rick Stowell: serve the purpose there as well. So we were looking at 10 to 15 years of our early weather data and things like wind direction wind speed air temperature, relative humidity and cloud cover and which is becoming more and more available nowadays.
[00:42:53.790]Rick Stowell: But, but we use that hourly data to run models. And then we went back in. And for each of those hours.
[00:43:01.650]Rick Stowell: We modeled what where the older would be going, which direction we would be going. Would it be dispersed under those weather conditions.
[00:43:10.620]Rick Stowell: And then that's how we come up with our frequency information. So if you take 10 years of weather data times all the hours in a year. And that's how many data points we had how many times the model was run and then we added up the totals.
[00:43:27.660]Rick Stowell: I know, I know it or levels versus
[00:43:30.570]Rick Stowell: Levels that didn't meet that threshold. And what was the percentage
[00:43:34.920]So hopefully that that helps
[00:43:37.380]Rick Stowell: Thanks for
[00:43:39.750]Elliott Dennis: Maybe a question for Dave and Rick is more people type your questions in in the box.
[00:43:48.960]Elliott Dennis: Dave. The question for you, and B,
[00:43:52.800]Elliott Dennis: Are lawsuits, be able to be filed against operations reps retrospectively who maybe
[00:44:00.480]Elliott Dennis: can't prove that their operation would not be in compliance with a certain level older older level and then maybe after that Rick maybe talk about
[00:44:12.900]Elliott Dennis: The difference between the number of days total number of days where we're number of hours. Within a year that it's
[00:44:21.600]Elliott Dennis: There's older and new since verse. A few hours each day over more days and maybe how you kind of come to that calculation. So papers.
[00:44:32.850]Dave Aiken: Okay.
[00:44:38.040]Dave Aiken: Generally, the
[00:44:42.360]Dave Aiken: Deadline for filing a lawsuit.
[00:44:45.930]Dave Aiken: For livestock nuisance is two years from when the
[00:44:53.310]Dave Aiken: Nuisance arrives. And so this would be
[00:44:59.310]Dave Aiken: If the neighbors always had this side of this this many livestock in this facility, whatever it is for the last 20 or 30 years
[00:45:13.710]Dave Aiken: You're going to be time barred from filing that lawsuit. Now, it used to be three years was the deadline that was changed. I think two or three years back to two years.
[00:45:25.770]Dave Aiken: So you don't have a lot of time to file these lawsuits. Now, if there's an expansion.
[00:45:33.270]Dave Aiken: And so that there's more livestock at the same facility and stuff, then you know the clock starts over again and you would have
[00:45:42.300]Dave Aiken: You know, you would have two years.
[00:45:46.020]Dave Aiken: From when the number of livestock increased and increased significantly, I would say.
[00:45:55.380]Dave Aiken: In in the in the facility to file the lawsuit, you know, if it's there and you know you've been kind of annoyed by it.
[00:46:03.570]Dave Aiken: It's been that way for for five or 10 years or something like that and say, Oh, great. Well, let's do, let's let's let's estimate what the, what the numbers would be and go get the spreadsheet and put the numbers and and oh gosh, they're at 85% well let's sue them, you know,
[00:46:23.640]Dave Aiken: If you do that within the two years if you get that lawsuit filed within the two years you know you've got a shot. If it's outside the two years, then it's
[00:46:35.250]Dave Aiken: It's over.
[00:46:39.570]Rick Stowell: I'll came in and Dave that for the tool perspective, all the modeling was done on existing data over a long period of years.
[00:46:52.890]Rick Stowell: And so we didn't get into the business or trying to predict the future, whether
[00:46:59.040]Rick Stowell: Or
[00:47:00.480]Rick Stowell: From a climate perspective I've had some people say, well, it's getting warmer and these things.
[00:47:07.560]Rick Stowell: I have yet to see anyone predict that or what or when patterns are changing.
[00:47:14.190]Rick Stowell: So prevailing winds are still prevailing winds, like they were 15 2030 years ago. And that's the major influence on the output of this tool. I think the other question LA. It was on
[00:47:31.020]Rick Stowell: Hourly versus daily
[00:47:33.630]Rick Stowell: So technically, the, the percentages order noise free frequencies are on an hourly basis.
[00:47:42.810]Rick Stowell: So the most accurate way of I haven't seen that as four days is is 96 hours roughly $100
[00:47:52.320]Rick Stowell: So if you want to put it on an average basis 94%
[00:47:58.530]Rick Stowell: Would mean six hours every four days.
[00:48:01.980]Rick Stowell: Not saying what six hours, but on average would be six hours every four days.
[00:48:08.190]Rick Stowell: People like to think in terms of days and so
[00:48:14.040]Rick Stowell: It's not technically accurate but it, but it's not inaccurate to say that
[00:48:20.010]Rick Stowell: Typically order events will be multi hour
[00:48:23.280]Rick Stowell: So you're saying that
[00:48:27.000]Rick Stowell: Three months is 90 hours so roughly thinking about that.
[00:48:33.600]Rick Stowell: I think that would be two to two days a month on average at 94% is what you'd have most of most of that day. If you want to think of that day, it would be most of the day, two days a month, on average, would be exceed those lumps.
[00:48:52.110]Elliott Dennis: base rate this
[00:48:54.360]Elliott Dennis: Is also coming from the order to adjust can to show that
[00:48:59.940]Elliott Dennis: The interest in essence, the George Cunningham had the question about the footprint tool was updated on a regular basis, using newer models, particularly modding to the dispersal probabilities validation rates weather modeling, etc. So maybe talk a little bit about
[00:49:19.650]Elliott Dennis: You mentioned the curves and those, that's where the science built in. How often are those curves updated to reflect maybe new or changing sciences, and then we'll
[00:49:32.190]Elliott Dennis: Have a question also about the tool.
[00:49:37.050]Rick Stowell: Well, practical realities also exist at the University
[00:49:41.940]Rick Stowell: We are a research institution, but we need funds to make that happen and graduate students postdoctoral students are the ones who make these tools available and and the reality is, is that there's not been
[00:50:03.600]Rick Stowell: Much updating in terms of the actual
[00:50:08.130]Rick Stowell: Curve.
[00:50:09.960]Rick Stowell: And
[00:50:11.610]Rick Stowell: So, but because funding is not
[00:50:16.290]Rick Stowell: Is very hard to get in this area, the federal government's not worried about older they're worried about greenhouse gases.
[00:50:24.060]Rick Stowell: Some other gases, but they're not worried about older and so it all comes down to, is there any resources to support this work if you also YOU THINK WE WANTED when we were verifying and validating the tool.
[00:50:41.340]Rick Stowell: We thought it was really important to verify it with people, rather than sensors.
[00:50:48.960]Rick Stowell: There are no good centers out there for quantifying older
[00:50:53.610]Rick Stowell: And but when you work with people.
[00:50:57.210]Rick Stowell: We have places called OFAC cometary labs and so I will state and Minnesota have labs.
[00:51:05.130]Rick Stowell: And they've sent set down those labs because mothball them because they're very expensive to run, you gotta hire enough people to keep them running and there's just not enough.
[00:51:19.980]Rick Stowell: supported research to justify keeping those running. So that was a long answer. I apologize for that, but
[00:51:29.040]Rick Stowell: We don't really have any any no one's provided evidence, saying that that
[00:51:36.030]Rick Stowell: The modeling that we did was
[00:51:38.970]Rick Stowell: Not appropriate
[00:51:40.860]Dave Aiken: Sure.
[00:51:42.810]Elliott Dennis: To follow up to that would be how likely are the is that to be outdated.
[00:51:50.280]Elliott Dennis: Mean that the
[00:51:52.350]Elliott Dennis: History and probability of organization.
[00:51:54.120]Elliott Dennis: Rates weather modeling. Has that changed dramatically since the tools, though.
[00:51:59.610]Rick Stowell: So, so the the main thing that could could change would be, you know,
[00:52:05.070]Rick Stowell: Order from a hog farm hasn't changed. Remarkably over the last 10 years
[00:52:12.840]Rick Stowell: I don't hear people saying that
[00:52:16.380]Rick Stowell: Last odors have changed. So the only thing that would be changed as we could incorporate newer weather data.
[00:52:23.550]Rick Stowell: And and that might have some impact. But that's where I said temperatures and moisture levels of in the year have changed, but the biggest factors are wind direction and wind speed, and I haven't seen any evidence thing that that
[00:52:43.680]Dave Aiken: Was but if somebody wants to throw several million dollars and show you probably be willing to take what
[00:52:52.320]Rick Stowell: Nebraska probably won't need millions. But to get the old fat comedy lab everything revved up again might take millions
[00:53:02.820]Elliott Dennis: Thanks, Rick. One more question for you. Sorry.
[00:53:07.140]Elliott Dennis: I think there's just a lot of interest in understanding how this tool works and seeing what goes into it. Besides measuring when their, their tools available that measure levels of airborne older particles or
[00:53:18.720]Elliott Dennis: Particulates, it could be used to assess quality. So maybe talk a little bit about
[00:53:24.660]Elliott Dennis: What tools we have to mess measure Eric quality and
[00:53:30.000]Elliott Dennis: How that may be incorporated into the tool.
[00:53:35.640]Rick Stowell: Well, I, I'm not good. I'm not trying to be nitpicky for any other reason than the accurate, but there is no such thing as an older part article
[00:53:46.170]Rick Stowell: There are particles that have older it and that's one of the, the biggest challenges we have is, is there's over 300
[00:53:58.620]Rick Stowell: Different compounds that might be contributing to order now probably a dozen of those are like ammonia and hydrogen sulfide are
[00:54:08.880]Rick Stowell: Key one but but
[00:54:12.270]Rick Stowell: So there are instruments out there a lot of sophisticated instruments to measure methane, which is not owners but hydrogen sulfide ammonia dust, we can measure. And so those are all air quality parameters.
[00:54:27.000]Rick Stowell: But none of them really say what the order is what the owner level is and that's why we've stuck to using groups of people and taking taking the
[00:54:40.110]Rick Stowell: Actual people observations and what they're sensing and use that to confirm our model.
[00:54:50.910]Elliott Dennis: Thanks for and then
[00:54:52.980]Elliott Dennis: Maybe one last question for Dave maybe talk about the significance of this court case. And if it was the first of its kind, and talk a little bit about how this sets legal precedent moving forward a little bit.
[00:55:10.170]Dave Aiken: Yeah.
[00:55:13.110]Dave Aiken: It is, in my opinion, it's a major development in terms of livestock nuisance lawsuits.
[00:55:21.270]Dave Aiken: In the sense that, you know, you can go from this, he said. She said, kind of know how bad is the odor to something that's that's quantifiable and
[00:55:34.560]Dave Aiken: It could potentially be a game changer, as I tried to suggest you know in wrapping up the talk.
[00:55:42.630]Dave Aiken: You know lawyers who are going to
[00:55:45.510]Dave Aiken: Be paid to sue.
[00:55:47.400]Dave Aiken: A lifestyle facility for owners are going to want the older footprint analysis.
[00:55:55.950]Dave Aiken: And and want to understand that in order to you know to decide what to go to if they're going to take the case or an item and when they've got it if if somebody at a low relatively low level of older interference.
[00:56:09.420]Dave Aiken: They're going to hopefully be very candid with their clients and say,
[00:56:15.960]Dave Aiken: The odds of winning this lawsuit are way less than 5050 you know that's their, their older footprint score is pretty good.
[00:56:27.960]Dave Aiken: And
[00:56:29.550]Dave Aiken: You know it. This would be you know that we can try to overcome this with testimony from neighbors and you know whether people have
[00:56:40.350]Dave Aiken: Evidence things that would suggest poor manure management or something like that and try to use that to say that the, you know, that, that, that the projection that the order footprint tool analysis provided
[00:56:58.890]Dave Aiken: Is not in fact how that facility is actually being operated and so that the actual impacts are probably different than then what you know do something to try to discredit the older footprint tool.
[00:57:11.910]Dave Aiken: But you know it's it's
[00:57:15.660]Dave Aiken: So,
[00:57:16.440]Dave Aiken: I mean, I think it's it's potentially a game changer.
[00:57:22.020]Dave Aiken: It doesn't necessarily mean that these lawsuits will go away, but I would not be surprised if these lawsuits, the number of these lawsuits.
[00:57:32.400]Dave Aiken: Fell
[00:57:33.900]Dave Aiken: Over time,
[00:57:36.150]Rick Stowell: If you don't mind, I'm going to quickly time in there are some cautions here.
[00:57:41.070]Rick Stowell: The big plus. Is that the
[00:57:44.970]Rick Stowell: The
[00:57:47.070]Rick Stowell: scare tactic or scare claim of this guy smell all the time.
[00:57:52.560]Rick Stowell: This is an excellent tool to
[00:57:57.330]Rick Stowell: Just totally blow that out of the water because you're, you're saying that over 90% of the time.
[00:58:04.680]Rick Stowell: It's not going to be something that's going to go into speller our retail scandal level and but the caution is that
[00:58:16.350]Rick Stowell: Some folks some producers also like to say you'll never smell it.
[00:58:21.240]Rick Stowell: And this is actually, if you use the tool or if somebody was to use the tool on your operation.
[00:58:28.860]Rick Stowell: They could they could also use that to to
[00:58:34.080]Rick Stowell: Say that that claim and stuff out. So
[00:58:38.700]Elliott Dennis: Even just to clarify, is this case unique to
[00:58:44.010]Elliott Dennis: Nebraska.
[00:58:46.350]Elliott Dennis: Is this or is there other precedents that outside that in other states and also read maybe talk about being a tool compared to others days.
[00:58:56.460]Dave Aiken: It's the first case that I've seen anywhere where the older footprint tool was a factor.
[00:59:03.420]Dave Aiken: And so I think that it's
[00:59:06.810]Dave Aiken: And livestock odor.
[00:59:09.510]Dave Aiken: Nuisance lawsuits from around the country or something that I track pretty closely, so
[00:59:16.170]Dave Aiken: It's, I think, it may be the first in the country and
[00:59:22.140]Dave Aiken: You know, I don't know.
[00:59:24.840]Dave Aiken: If all of the major livestock producing states, you know, have an operational own footprint tool in their state or not.
[00:59:33.510]Dave Aiken: I would suggest that
[00:59:34.860]Dave Aiken: If they don't, they might want to
[00:59:36.930]Dave Aiken: That would be something for lifestyle groups to pursue because it you know could provide something that could be very helpful and dealing with these lawsuits but i think i think that it is kind of a path breaking case in that decision it for that reason.
[00:59:53.790]Rick Stowell: So in terms of availability of tools and I call it the Nebraska water footprint tool. And I do that because there's also the South Dakota order footprint tool. Basically they contracted with Nebraska UL to do the modeling for South Dakota.
[01:00:10.140]Rick Stowell: weather stations weather data. And so they start to go to has
[01:00:15.810]Rick Stowell: A similar tool available in their state, and I believe it's the same thing that a small number of counties have adapted the South Dakota order blueprint tool as part of their regulations, but
[01:00:31.620]Rick Stowell: Mostly it's a voluntary tool Iowa does not have a tool or footprint tool they have something else.
[01:00:40.950]Rick Stowell: And it's primarily developed for flying and flying Iowa.
[01:00:46.800]Rick Stowell: Pork association is it is using that are supporting uses that inciting of facilities facilities.
[01:00:55.140]Rick Stowell: Minnesota has the earliest version of the tool. It's called offset. And that's a first generation type of tool. I don't think it's been updated updated.
[01:01:06.120]Rick Stowell: But that's available for counties to use producers and then a couple of counties and adopted it. I think Purdue as developed something for Indiana and their own tool. And those are the only ones I'm aware.
[01:01:22.350]Dave Aiken: Don't have a Minnesota
[01:01:26.880]Rick Stowell: Minnesota has offset.
[01:01:29.670]Rick Stowell: So it's an early precursor to the order for part two. Okay.
[01:01:35.430]Elliott Dennis: Thanks, Rick. Thanks David. And thank you for everyone who joined us today a recording of this webinar will be posted at farm. You know that edu that's FA RM ul.edu
[01:01:48.420]Elliott Dennis: And you can also register for other upcoming webinars as well. Next week, I'll be hosting as well. And we'll be talking about value edit advice talk marketing programs that are both use
[01:02:02.250]Elliott Dennis: Primarily for cattle with some segments wine operations will be joined by Tom drink from Red Angus and also Andrew Dorn from all flex or farmer.
[01:02:14.850]Elliott Dennis: After this meeting will also courage you you'll be receiving a short survey via email, we'd really appreciate your feedback on today's webinar and also your input on future sessions.
[01:02:26.700]Elliott Dennis: It's only through your help and support that we can make these webinars successful and we hope to provide webinar topics that are of interest to the general public. Thanks again for joining us and Thanks Rick and Dave
[01:02:39.000]Elliott Dennis: For being on the webinar with us. And I hope everyone else has a great rest of the day.
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