Damon Hack, Host, Morning Drive, Golf Channel

John Shrader Author

10/11/2020 Added

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[00:00:01.820]Damon Hack, now eight years at the Golf Channel,
[00:00:04.700]before that, I think we could call him simply
[00:00:06.920]a journalist magazine, Sports Illustrated, New York Times,
[00:00:10.070]Newsday, Sacramento Bee, known Damon for a long time,
[00:00:13.500]and he's here to talk about some issues,
[00:00:15.070]and I appreciate it very much.
[00:00:17.490]John, it's always great to spend some time with you.
[00:00:19.757]Thank you, thank you.
[00:00:20.930]Well, as we say in the journalism business,
[00:00:23.330]let's not bury the lede, okay?
[00:00:25.600]Let's just get right into this conversation.
[00:00:27.970]And let's talk golf, first of all.
[00:00:29.810]Golf is your business,
[00:00:31.210]you are not only a journalist in golf,
[00:00:33.070]but you're a television host, it's what you do.
[00:00:37.910]If there's anything that is in need
[00:00:41.250]of some integration racially, culturally, it's golf, right?
[00:00:45.510]I mean, let's be honest,
[00:00:46.520]it's a white man's game.
[00:00:48.370]It's played by almost not exclusively,
[00:00:50.630]but almost all white men on the PGA Tour.
[00:00:54.330]And so how do you reconcile that?
[00:00:56.220]How do you feel about that?
[00:00:58.200]Yeah, because of that fact,
[00:01:00.700]I really kind of treasure my place in the business
[00:01:04.410]as a rare minority, African American male,
[00:01:08.500]who's on five days a week talking about a sport
[00:01:11.640]that is largely homogenous, even in 2020.
[00:01:14.620]It's been interesting viewing golf,
[00:01:17.050]through the lens of race, especially this year,
[00:01:19.560]where there's been so many discussions and conversations
[00:01:22.737]and some strife and some tension as well.
[00:01:26.240]And I've been trying to do my part
[00:01:28.180]to kind of push the conversation at Golf Channel
[00:01:32.420]on Morning Drive, once a week,
[00:01:33.880]I've been hosting a segment called
[00:01:35.750]Race and Sports in America, moving golf forward,
[00:01:39.950]and I've spoken to African American members
[00:01:42.850]of the golf industry,
[00:01:44.050]but also some white males as well,
[00:01:47.410]to kind of get their take on what their role is.
[00:01:50.960]I recently spoke to Kirk Triplett,
[00:01:52.640]who's a three time winner on the PGA Tour.
[00:01:55.060]A white man who has a blended family, a multi-ethnic family,
[00:01:59.190]and adopted African American son named Kobe,
[00:02:02.340]who's a teenager and he was very, very open about how
[00:02:06.150]he has seen, in his own house,
[00:02:08.720]the conversations he has to have with his black son
[00:02:11.450]versus his white children or Latina daughter.
[00:02:14.920]So I'm doing my best to keep these issues
[00:02:18.800]in the forefront, especially in a game
[00:02:20.840]that needs to have these tough conversations
[00:02:23.760]and look in the mirror from time to time.
[00:02:27.450]Generally, how do people react
[00:02:30.130]when you bring up the conversation?
[00:02:32.460]Because, then I'll preface that with this,
[00:02:34.920]I've always had this,
[00:02:36.260]as a sportscaster, sports reporter for a long time,
[00:02:39.580]longer than you have been,
[00:02:40.977]and I've said this sort of love-hate relationship
[00:02:43.270]with let's say, Augusta, right?
[00:02:45.410]The Masters, where Augusta is one of the great last bastions
[00:02:50.940]of white male Southern domination right?
[00:02:54.870]I mean, they have a handful of non-white members but,
[00:02:57.910]and so the Masters the greatest,
[00:03:00.230]like none other CBS produces it.
[00:03:02.500]So how do people in sport, your sport,
[00:03:06.040]react when you try to broaden this conversation outside
[00:03:10.480]of what it is?
[00:03:13.660]It's hard.
[00:03:14.550]I think there are conversations that are happening.
[00:03:18.040]I know for a fact that people in the industry,
[00:03:21.370]in the C-suites as it were,
[00:03:22.980]are having these tough conversations,
[00:03:25.030]because they know that they have to.
[00:03:26.650]I feel like people, sports fans are paying attention,
[00:03:30.180]Wanting to see how golf reacts how USGA, Augusta National,
[00:03:35.670]The R&A, the PGA Tour, relative to other sports.
[00:03:40.150]I mean, we can see the NBA has black lives matter
[00:03:43.720]on the court.
[00:03:45.550]During the NBA playoffs, we're seeing many more outward,
[00:03:51.190]demonstrations in the NFL,
[00:03:53.000]things that were tamped down four years ago,
[00:03:55.890]and poo-poohed and outright,
[00:03:59.000]discouraged, are now being embraced.
[00:04:01.240]So even the NFL taking a second and third look
[00:04:04.410]and saying that these conversations are okay
[00:04:06.580]and peaceful protest is okay.
[00:04:08.890]And I think that golf considering,
[00:04:11.340]it lagged behind in the 40s and 50s
[00:04:13.730]when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in 1947,
[00:04:17.560]golf did lose it's Caucasian only claws,
[00:04:21.450]until the early 1960s,
[00:04:24.270]long after Jackie Robinson had retired.
[00:04:26.220]So I think because of that,
[00:04:28.450]because of the cost issues in golf,
[00:04:30.780]because it has been so slow to change and evolve.
[00:04:34.225]And that's not to say that it hasn't changed, evolved,
[00:04:37.180]it's just been slower, much slower compared to other sports.
[00:04:41.720]As the optimist that I am, I'm watching very closely,
[00:04:45.700]I'm listening, I'm doing my best to be someone
[00:04:49.290]that people in the industry can lean on.
[00:04:52.040]I tell you, my phone's been ringing.
[00:04:54.540]I've had email conversations.
[00:04:56.500]I feel like people want to do things,
[00:04:58.550]they don't always know what to do,
[00:05:00.930]but I feel like this is a moment where people
[00:05:03.400]in our industry realize that they can't just be quiet,
[00:05:06.460]they can't just kind of let,
[00:05:08.620]the greatness of Tiger Woods be enough
[00:05:11.760]of the integration that golf needs.
[00:05:14.010]And I've even said this John,
[00:05:15.080]I think that Tiger in some ways,
[00:05:16.380]has been the best and the worst thing to happen to golf,
[00:05:19.440]because you have this multi-ethnic star,
[00:05:21.440]who has attracted so many to the game,
[00:05:24.030]but it's also allowed golf to kind of be,
[00:05:26.160]feel good about itself, that hey,
[00:05:27.930]the best player in our game over the last two decades,
[00:05:31.630]has been a part African American.
[00:05:34.060]So hey, we're doing a great job with integration,
[00:05:37.280]where the truth is,
[00:05:38.113]that there aren't that many African Americans
[00:05:39.620]in the sport,
[00:05:40.453]there aren't that many African Americans
[00:05:42.180]in the broadcast booth or sports riding,
[00:05:46.000]covering the game of golf,
[00:05:47.010]or making those business decisions with sponsorship,
[00:05:50.430]etc, etc.
[00:05:52.240]Yeah, and Tiger Woods, not only at the top of the game,
[00:05:56.040]but also Tiger Woods, and again, it's his choice,
[00:05:59.070]and I'm not making a critical or editorial comment here.
[00:06:03.930]But he has always said, he doesn't wanna be identified,
[00:06:07.630]racially, right?
[00:06:08.780]And so I don't know how much more complicated
[00:06:11.220]that's made to the conversation.
[00:06:12.780]I don't know.
[00:06:14.163]I think it does.
[00:06:14.996]I mean, Tiger from the very beginning,
[00:06:16.870]from from the mid 90s,
[00:06:19.160]viewed himself and made up a word kind of Cablinasian,
[00:06:22.680]which gives a nod to his multi-ethnic background,
[00:06:26.610]which includes Caucasian and Asian and African American
[00:06:31.040]and listen, his mom is Thai and said,
[00:06:33.020]If I just called myself African American,
[00:06:34.740]it would be denying my mom's heritage,
[00:06:39.014]and even beyond that, he has kind of played it
[00:06:41.490]down the middle, not tried to really take sides on,
[00:06:45.670]really much of anything, that's been his choice.
[00:06:49.190]In the wake of the killing of George Floyd,
[00:06:51.160]he did ultimately release a statement,
[00:06:53.240]some thought it was a little bit safe,
[00:06:55.320]and thought maybe he could have made a stronger stance
[00:06:58.900]or had a stronger take,
[00:06:59.960]having covered Tiger for more than 20 years.
[00:07:02.380]It was about what I expected from him,
[00:07:04.180]cause that's kind of been his consistent path,
[00:07:05.970]is to be a great golfer to contribute to his foundation
[00:07:10.280]and hope that he helps affects kids lives
[00:07:13.170]through a STEM education,
[00:07:15.380]and bringing kids through his program
[00:07:16.920]in Southern California and other places,
[00:07:18.990]but he hasn't been very open in terms of,
[00:07:22.170]being vocal when political or issues of racial justice,
[00:07:26.730]come to the fore.
[00:07:28.370]So Damon, you've done this for a while.
[00:07:30.710]And we know that this time is different,
[00:07:34.060]but it was only four years ago when Colin Kaepernick,
[00:07:36.790]was basically, not basically, blacklisted
[00:07:39.310]from his profession for speaking up about his views
[00:07:44.110]on social justice, right?
[00:07:45.760]So is this time different, that we've seen it over the years
[00:07:50.850]and things happen, is this moment in our history different?
[00:07:55.890]I believe it is.
[00:07:57.720]The optimist me wants to believe it,
[00:07:59.137]but also the realist who has had conversations
[00:08:02.060]with Charles Barkley, Ozzie Smith,
[00:08:03.970]I was able to go to Lake Tahoe a few months ago,
[00:08:06.740]sit down with Steph Curry,
[00:08:08.880]different athletes who have been traveling this country
[00:08:11.860]and they're having their own discussions.
[00:08:14.230]To quote Ozzie Smith, he said,
[00:08:15.800]we have more allies now.
[00:08:17.780]He said, my white brothers and Latino brothers,
[00:08:20.350]Asian brothers are, they're on the front lines as well.
[00:08:24.210]And the protests are multicultural,
[00:08:26.300]the conversations are multicultural.
[00:08:28.390]I think that's hugely important.
[00:08:30.438]This can't just be the burden of black people alone.
[00:08:35.260]I've had some really fascinating conversations
[00:08:37.790]with people that are like, the kind of,
[00:08:39.740]they look to me or look to other African Americans,
[00:08:43.320]to give us all the solutions, and we can try to enlighten,
[00:08:47.290]but I think it's gonna take,
[00:08:48.210]all of us sitting around the table,
[00:08:50.450]putting our minds together, putting our hearts out there,
[00:08:53.540]be willing to be vulnerable.
[00:08:54.930]These are not easy topics,
[00:08:58.200]and there's been a segment of friends
[00:08:59.455]that are tired of talking about race,
[00:09:01.610]they don't wanna talk about it.
[00:09:04.551]And they're nice people, they're good people.
[00:09:06.260]I think standing on the sidelines
[00:09:08.000]of being a nice person and a good person
[00:09:09.670]isn't enough anymore.
[00:09:10.610]I think if you hear or see bigotry or racism,
[00:09:15.490]you have to call it out.
[00:09:17.200]I think that's what, in many ways,
[00:09:19.390]this moment feels a little bit different,
[00:09:20.670]cause I feel like we're trying to get more people
[00:09:23.380]just to call it out,
[00:09:24.710]to not be afraid, to have tough conversations
[00:09:28.020]about the history of our country,
[00:09:29.420]whether it's politically or about housing or about sports.
[00:09:34.410]There's a lot of layers to these conversations,
[00:09:37.320]but at least I believe they're happening.
[00:09:39.860]And maybe it's because of the COVID-19 era,
[00:09:41.950]people are more at home.
[00:09:44.220]The George Floyd killing was viewed by people at home
[00:09:47.990]when they weren't at work, folks were quarantining,
[00:09:51.120]so it kind of forced us to look inward
[00:09:53.710]and have these chats and conversations.
[00:09:55.610]So I do feel that, this is different this time.
[00:09:59.630]Is this something that you feel comfortable talking about?
[00:10:04.930]Is something inside of you thought,
[00:10:06.220]boy, it's about time,
[00:10:07.370]boy, I'm sure glad I've got this moment
[00:10:09.810]because I needed to do this.
[00:10:12.460]You know, I didn't seek it out,
[00:10:14.270]I wrote a column, following the death of George Floyd,
[00:10:18.320]almost trying to unburden myself and say,
[00:10:20.650]you know what, here I am an African American man,
[00:10:24.180]making the turn in life,
[00:10:25.990]most of my life behind me and not in front of me,
[00:10:29.430]and I'm having this conversation with my own kids
[00:10:31.290]that my dad had with me and my grandfather had with him.
[00:10:35.220]And I felt this really kind of conflicted feeling
[00:10:38.440]of being wow, I am so thankful for the job I have,
[00:10:41.727]and the life I have and my family, knock on wood,
[00:10:45.780]healthy and safe and happy,
[00:10:48.240]I am well compensated for my work.
[00:10:51.080]But then I had this pain in my chest
[00:10:52.960]about, but I am also an African American male,
[00:10:55.790]who when I'm not on television, a couple hours a day,
[00:10:59.350]I'm the guy at the mall,
[00:11:01.040]or has the uncomfortable stare when I'm jogging
[00:11:03.670]in a largely white neighborhood, of which I live.
[00:11:07.860]I'm in the elevator,
[00:11:09.180]seeing the uncomfortable look when I walk in.
[00:11:11.450]So it was just this kind of weird,
[00:11:13.640]kind of dichotomy of feeling,
[00:11:15.650]so thankful and blessed for the job I have,
[00:11:18.000]but also feeling the conflict and sadness
[00:11:20.580]that there are people in my community,
[00:11:23.440]and I'm talking about cousins and communities
[00:11:26.020]where I spent time as a child
[00:11:27.610]where they're feeling hopelessness,
[00:11:30.080]and despair and sadness.
[00:11:33.100]John it's been an opportunity for me,
[00:11:34.640]as someone who has traveled the world
[00:11:36.600]and knows what it's like to have two parents,
[00:11:38.930]who went to Compton High School, which I did,
[00:11:41.100]but who also has spent time in London, in Paris
[00:11:44.700]and worked for The New York Times.
[00:11:45.950]I feel like I have accomplished a role
[00:11:48.040]that I'm not asking for,
[00:11:50.240]but I'm comfortable talking about issues of race,
[00:11:53.200]because I've lived it.
[00:11:54.470]I've been the only black person in a college class,
[00:11:58.150]a high school class, of junior high,
[00:12:00.230]but the only black person in a press room before
[00:12:03.610]and I've also been among African Americans
[00:12:06.510]in several situations,
[00:12:07.870]whether it's in a church or at a wedding,
[00:12:10.260]or growing up in my own home.
[00:12:12.640]So I do feel like I have a certain lived experience
[00:12:16.930]that seems to lend itself to these conversations
[00:12:19.750]in this moment.
[00:12:20.583]And I've been fortunate to be able to share stories
[00:12:23.530]on podcasts and talk to students and talk to businesses,
[00:12:27.560]and really try to lend whatever expertise I have,
[00:12:30.560]because I do feel like because of my role
[00:12:34.000]as an employee of Golf Channel
[00:12:35.860]in a largely white sport,
[00:12:37.160]but also just my upbringing
[00:12:38.800]and things I've experienced,
[00:12:39.920]that I can hopefully add to the conversation
[00:12:42.600]and make people think and know that,
[00:12:46.190]it's coming from a place of optimism and hope,
[00:12:49.320]that we continue to move forward.
[00:12:51.560]So Damon, we appreciate you answering our phone call
[00:12:55.050]and willing to do this,
[00:12:56.300]because as you suggested,
[00:12:57.870]it's a conversation that you're having
[00:12:59.580]in lots of places.
[00:13:01.280]And honestly and I try to couch this in my classes,
[00:13:05.290]and in California, it was different because,
[00:13:08.360]the classrooms were full of people
[00:13:09.960]who didn't look like me, right?
[00:13:12.690]And there's a lot of us in settings and classrooms
[00:13:15.510]and other places where the room is full of people,
[00:13:18.230]who look like me.
[00:13:19.940]And what we should be doing is listening,
[00:13:21.950]are people who look like me listening,
[00:13:25.588]and as comfortably and as well
[00:13:28.140]as you think they should?
[00:13:30.120]See, I think they're starting to,
[00:13:32.570]what I have found is, and I wrote a column about being,
[00:13:35.890]pulled over for no reason, searched my car,
[00:13:39.160]do you have weapons or drugs?
[00:13:40.680]No sir, I've never even smoked marijuana in my life,
[00:13:43.340]which to this day is true.
[00:13:45.860]But people were surprised, my white colleague was shocked,
[00:13:48.690]Damon, you're such a nice guy, you've been pulled over?
[00:13:51.930]Yes.
[00:13:52.763]You've been frisked in front of your mom's home
[00:13:54.210]when you were 18 years old?
[00:13:56.040]Yes, I have with no weapons, no drugs,
[00:13:59.400]I was frisked because I was a black man,
[00:14:02.110]standing in the San Fernando Valley,
[00:14:03.850]and the police officer for whatever reason,
[00:14:05.430]thought I might be a suspect,
[00:14:07.580]that I might be a troublesome person.
[00:14:09.940]So in my own experiences and conversation with folks,
[00:14:13.810]they're shocked to hear that Damon Hack on television,
[00:14:17.660]has had issues.
[00:14:18.930]And I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones,
[00:14:20.430]a six foot three bald headed black man
[00:14:23.500]who just had some uncomfortable interactions with the police
[00:14:27.010]and never escalated into,
[00:14:29.310]something more nefarious or tragic,
[00:14:32.030]but I was surprised, that a lot of my white colleagues
[00:14:35.730]were surprised that those things would happen to me
[00:14:38.010]and they were like so shocked that,
[00:14:40.653]smiling Damon Hack, sweet Damon Hack,
[00:14:45.220]would never have had dealt with this thing.
[00:14:47.840]I was driving in Northern California,
[00:14:50.220]returning from my summer internship
[00:14:53.250]that I just secured at The Fresno Bee,
[00:14:55.580]driving from Fresno, back to the Bay Area,
[00:14:59.210]so excited, listening to U2 on my radio
[00:15:01.680]and I got pulled over, wasn't speeding,
[00:15:04.610]the police officer just said,
[00:15:06.670]do you have drugs or weapons in your car?
[00:15:08.360]I said no, he looked in the backseat.
[00:15:11.080]I just remember feeling man,
[00:15:12.156]this is one of the happiest days of my life,
[00:15:15.270]midway between my first and second years at Berkeley,
[00:15:18.190]and here I am being pulled over,
[00:15:19.670]for no reason other than being a black man
[00:15:21.830]driving on the freeway.
[00:15:25.240]And so, I want to share those stories,
[00:15:27.600]that it's not just happening in the hoods,
[00:15:29.720]it's not just happening in the inner city,
[00:15:32.030]that these are things that even African Americans
[00:15:36.410]in business, or in broadcast, often face.
[00:15:43.320]So you said that you're oftentimes,
[00:15:45.330]the only African American,
[00:15:47.530]the only, maybe the person of color in the media setting.
[00:15:51.855]How do we improve this?
[00:15:54.550]More African Americans, more Latinos, more Asians.
[00:15:57.920]Again, people who don't look like me,
[00:15:59.450]and I'm not suggesting that people who look like me,
[00:16:01.730]don't do a good job, that's not the point,
[00:16:04.010]the point is that we need to represent who we are,
[00:16:07.360]and media presentation, I think, and representation,
[00:16:11.340]does not reflect who we are as America in 2020, right?
[00:16:16.260]So how do we make that better?
[00:16:18.130]I think it's outreach, I think it's education.
[00:16:21.310]I think when I go to schools,
[00:16:23.020]and talk to young, black children in particular,
[00:16:26.720]to let them know,
[00:16:27.553]that there are roles outside of entertainment,
[00:16:32.340]athletics, etc.
[00:16:34.620]I had a fascinating conversation
[00:16:36.380]with Charles Barkley about that.
[00:16:38.150]He's someone who's lived a very interesting life,
[00:16:41.560]grew up in the south, and he'll say,
[00:16:43.190]I'll go to a white school,
[00:16:44.300]and the kids are talking about being doctors
[00:16:46.160]and broadcasters and lawyers
[00:16:47.860]and journalists and politicians,
[00:16:50.410]and I go to black schools,
[00:16:52.250]and they wanna be Charles Barkley,
[00:16:54.940]and they wanna play in the NBA.
[00:16:56.410]So how do we let folks from disaffected communities
[00:17:01.530]know that there are routes to wonderful jobs
[00:17:05.980]in front of the camera, behind the camera,
[00:17:07.930]broadcast, producing, directing, stage directing,
[00:17:13.370]there's sound, AV, there's so many different roles in media.
[00:17:17.313]I still think a lot of kids growing up
[00:17:20.650]in these poor communities just know that they're available,
[00:17:24.030]have the means, have the the knowledge
[00:17:27.310]that there are routes in jobs,
[00:17:30.073]that are potentially available to them.
[00:17:32.550]So I think that's part of it,
[00:17:34.280]but it also has to be the outreach
[00:17:35.700]from the companies themselves, my own company,
[00:17:38.290]NBC Sports Group, and NBC and Comcast.
[00:17:42.880]We have to do a job as well to foster those relationships,
[00:17:47.440]and we want to have viewers,
[00:17:49.670]from all the communities across America.
[00:17:52.420]We should want also have employees,
[00:17:54.990]from all the communities across America as well.
[00:17:58.210]Is this a time when the NBA and maybe the NFL,
[00:18:02.950]again, I'm not a guy who should be using the term woke,
[00:18:05.630]but maybe the NFL is now woke.
[00:18:08.760]And the NBA leading it,
[00:18:11.370]and then the politicians get involved,
[00:18:13.960]and then the business people get involved,
[00:18:16.270]and is this a time do you think,
[00:18:19.660]when it's good that sports is driving this conversation?
[00:18:24.920]I think so.
[00:18:25.920]I think sports is so often but at the tip of the spear,
[00:18:29.610]Arthur Ashe, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Billie Jean King,
[00:18:34.930]Jim Brown, Jackie Robinson,
[00:18:37.320]it's often been the athletes who have shown
[00:18:41.080]that teams can come together and pull in the same direction.
[00:18:46.380]I mean, think about our old San Francisco 49 locker room,
[00:18:49.620]we had folks from all over the globe,
[00:18:52.490]we had a Mormon quarterback in Steve Young,
[00:18:55.470]you had, Jerry Rice from Mississippi.
[00:18:58.660]I mean, you had players--
[00:18:59.535]Jesse Sapolu.
[00:19:00.973]Jesse Sapolu, exactly a Pacific Islander.
[00:19:03.840]I mean, you had an absolute, a multi-ethnic,
[00:19:08.260]a beautiful, rainbow coalition, as it were,
[00:19:12.380]I've talked to Anthony Lynn, the LA Chargers coach,
[00:19:15.080]who said he would love to see,
[00:19:16.850]America look like a football team in the locker room,
[00:19:19.430]where you have folks from different lived experiences,
[00:19:22.660]kind of pulling in the same direction.
[00:19:25.090]So listen, I love that some people say oh, well,
[00:19:29.940]just shut up and dribble that's your prerogative,
[00:19:32.840]but I love more, the athletes that are trying
[00:19:36.260]to make a difference.
[00:19:37.100]Take a stance, especially when it's peaceful.
[00:19:39.830]I mean, the whole kneeling aspect,
[00:19:44.247]as you know Colin Kaepernick had a conversation
[00:19:47.010]with a military veteran,
[00:19:48.760]who said that kneeling was more respectful
[00:19:50.550]than sitting on the bench,
[00:19:52.080]and that kneeling, you kneel,
[00:19:54.930]people kneel during your sermon sometimes,
[00:19:57.370]they kneel when you return the flag.
[00:20:00.010]I mean, it's supposed to be,
[00:20:01.510]you're kind of humbling yourself
[00:20:03.400]and it became
[00:20:04.233]this big ole mess and firestorm and,
[00:20:09.839]shut up and play It got hijacked,
[00:20:11.600]Absolutely got hijacked, the meaning got hijacked,
[00:20:13.670]and it wasn't until George Floyd,
[00:20:15.210]where people were like, oh!
[00:20:16.630]So this is what Colin Kaepernick was talking about.
[00:20:19.610]So you know, it was a very peaceful protest.
[00:20:21.910]I'm all about peaceful protest.
[00:20:24.220]I'm not about looting and violence,
[00:20:27.050]and I think most people in the realm
[00:20:30.400]of wanting things to improve,
[00:20:31.960]want to see peaceful, thoughtful protest, conversation
[00:20:37.310]and understanding,
[00:20:38.680]oh, we have so many in society,
[00:20:40.590]who are just yelling and screaming and not listening,
[00:20:42.940]and that's an art that's really been lost.
[00:20:45.900]And I hope that maybe we're kind of creeping our way back,
[00:20:48.720]I hope, to not just being on Twitter,
[00:20:53.270]where things are just,
[00:20:55.550]everybody can be kind of a keyboard warrior
[00:20:57.900]and not really take the time to listen.
[00:21:00.700]How do your bosses at NBC Sports and Golf Channel
[00:21:03.760]feel about your approach to this?
[00:21:06.350]I saw something that you did,
[00:21:07.700]and maybe I have the wrong channel,
[00:21:09.010]but you did something on BBC,
[00:21:11.190]or something having this conversation.
[00:21:14.000]So it isn't like you're just having it with college students
[00:21:17.240]in the middle of America.
[00:21:18.130]You're having a conversation with people all over the world.
[00:21:20.120]And how did the folks you work for feel about that?
[00:21:23.230]They've been very encouraging.
[00:21:24.810]They encouraged me, when I wrote that column,
[00:21:27.370]it was a blog post at first on my own Instagram page,
[00:21:31.731]and my colleagues were like, and my boss,
[00:21:33.550]why don't you turn this into a story
[00:21:35.220]that we'll put on golfchannel.com.
[00:21:37.760]They know what I've been doing, having radio interviews,
[00:21:40.440]they've encouraged me to be a leader in this moment.
[00:21:42.890]I know they're thankful that I'm in the hallways,
[00:21:45.500]cause I'm one of the few,
[00:21:47.430]and the only African American
[00:21:49.360]that's regularly on Golf Channel air,
[00:21:53.380]Mike Tirico, obviously dabbles in Golf Channel,
[00:21:55.650]mostly this NBC,
[00:21:56.820]but I've been the only African American talent,
[00:22:00.070]on air talent at Golf Channel for some time.
[00:22:02.920]I think they know my background,
[00:22:04.910]they kind of trust my sensibility
[00:22:07.870]in terms of how I'll try to be reasoned and thoughtful
[00:22:11.560]and not just talk, but listen,
[00:22:13.010]but yeah, you mentioned the BBC interview I did,
[00:22:15.200]I have a Sky Sports, Roundtable coming up,
[00:22:18.420]they're also in the United Kingdom.
[00:22:20.460]So it's been nice to kind of have these opportunities
[00:22:24.120]to share and also nice to have the support
[00:22:27.100]of my colleagues and my bosses in this moment,
[00:22:30.750]because I think, in the hallways of NBC,
[00:22:33.740]we're having this conversation as well about,
[00:22:36.190]what can we do, as an industry as a company,
[00:22:40.220]to not just affect change, but also look inward,
[00:22:42.400]and see, what are we doing and where can we improve as well?
[00:22:45.870]Isn't it interesting, how life kind of circulates?
[00:22:51.620]If that's the right word.
[00:22:53.620]If you're a 25 year old newspaper reporter in Sacramento,
[00:22:57.220]you may not be ready for this conversation.
[00:22:59.780]But here you are a guy, who's been around seeing the world,
[00:23:02.550]you have a view of it.
[00:23:04.250]Not that when you were 25,
[00:23:06.560]you weren't still scarred by being stopped by the cops
[00:23:09.000]in front of your mother's house when you're 18 years old,
[00:23:11.350]I'm not suggesting that.
[00:23:12.750]But at this point in your life,
[00:23:14.690]you feel like you were ready for this,
[00:23:17.390]you were prepared for this moment.
[00:23:20.580]It's really true and probably in the largest sense,
[00:23:23.800]because I'm a father now myself
[00:23:25.960]and in raising three sons and knowing--
[00:23:29.370]Who all happen to be the same age by the way.
[00:23:31.055](John laughs) Yeah, I mean, right, yeah,
[00:23:32.721]so triplet boys born a minute apart
[00:23:34.970]at Mount Sinai in New York.
[00:23:36.340]And my gosh, being a parent has allowed me to kind of,
[00:23:40.350]revisit what my parents must have gone through in raising me
[00:23:43.540]and just wanting safety for your child
[00:23:46.130]and happiness for your child and opportunity for your child.
[00:23:49.730]And that's what I want,
[00:23:50.580]I want my children to feel that they can walk
[00:23:53.690]with their shoulders back and be respectful and respected
[00:23:58.220]and be safe in this country.
[00:24:00.760]And I think that's given me the greatest perspective.
[00:24:03.590]And it's true, I feel fortunate,
[00:24:05.460]that I've been able to live all over this country
[00:24:07.380]and travel and see different things
[00:24:09.450]and experience different things
[00:24:10.850]and be able to share my truth,
[00:24:13.550]and this is my truth in my perspective,
[00:24:15.310]and it's not necessarily everyone else's,
[00:24:16.960]and not everyone is gonna agree with me, and that's fine.
[00:24:20.460]But I do think that I've been able to,
[00:24:22.800]if not change some minds, at least allow some folks to think
[00:24:26.670]and I've had people reach out to me and say,
[00:24:28.670]Damon, thank you for being so honest,
[00:24:30.940]and thank you for being so vulnerable,
[00:24:32.560]cause it's vulnerable,
[00:24:35.210]it's a vulnerable feeling to talk about things in your past
[00:24:38.210]that hurt you, that have come up,
[00:24:41.560]and I mean, this spring, I was walking around
[00:24:44.840]my chest feeling tight.
[00:24:46.840]and I was like, why am I feeling this conflicted?
[00:24:49.140]I have a wonderful job and family,
[00:24:51.500]why am I feeling some sadness here?
[00:24:54.480]And it's because I was having the conversations with my kids
[00:24:57.140]that my dad had had with me and I was like,
[00:24:58.720]you know what, my life is half over.
[00:25:00.310]I can't believe that we as a country,
[00:25:03.720]have not moved past this.
[00:25:05.590]And that doesn't mean we haven't had incredible,
[00:25:08.780]change in progress,
[00:25:10.310]an African American president, for example.
[00:25:12.810]And we've seen an expanding African American middle class
[00:25:17.320]in some senses, but there are also still some things
[00:25:20.410]that we're seeing that kind of remind me
[00:25:22.920]that there's still some distance to go as well.
[00:25:25.940]You suffer, and I don't want this to be negative,
[00:25:27.870]but do you suffer, inordinate kinds of responses
[00:25:32.030]on social media and other places, because you're black?
[00:25:36.060]I do, I mean, I can't speak for others.
[00:25:39.710]I've been told that Damon be quiet,
[00:25:42.520]you're on TV, what do you have to whine about?
[00:25:44.850]That was one tweet I got, in the springtime.
[00:25:48.290]I probably got a handful,
[00:25:50.270]when I posted that Instagram post about,
[00:25:53.010]how I was feeling and things that happened with me,
[00:25:55.580]with the police, I would say it was 95 to 98% positive.
[00:26:00.410]And then just a handful of folks who said,
[00:26:03.680]completely disagree, you have no reason to be whining.
[00:26:07.290]And that's fine.
[00:26:08.330]That's a good percentage of positive, I'll take that.
[00:26:13.930]When I first got on social media,
[00:26:15.680]I was amazed at some of the vitriol type,
[00:26:20.530]racial vitriol that I've faced,
[00:26:22.510]it doesn't happen as much anymore.
[00:26:25.160]Maybe it's cause folks are just used to seeing me now,
[00:26:29.090]maybe in some ways, I've earned my stripes
[00:26:32.510]or I'm earning my stripes,
[00:26:34.660]you've done the Olympics for the New York Times,
[00:26:37.110]gone for the Olympics for NBC,
[00:26:38.720]I feel like I've done a decent job as a broadcaster,
[00:26:42.670]I still feel like I have much to learn,
[00:26:44.520]I'm only eight years into my TV career
[00:26:47.170]versus a much longer career as a writer.
[00:26:51.130]So I would say the racial things I faced are small,
[00:26:55.290]other hurtful, I don't appreciate them,
[00:26:57.590]but I also know that, it's almost just a function
[00:27:00.220]of what social media is.
[00:27:01.620]Everybody has access to, and can kinda speak their mind,
[00:27:04.970]and I'll use the block button or the mute button,
[00:27:09.010]if things get a little too hot.
[00:27:11.730]So as we wrap up this conversation,
[00:27:14.590]if you were omniscient, and you could say,
[00:27:19.060]this is what media representation
[00:27:21.930]and media presentation of people in sport,
[00:27:27.150]who look like you, even who look like me,
[00:27:29.990]but if you are omniscient,
[00:27:31.450]how would you say, this is the way it should be?
[00:27:35.990]For me, it's really about the decision makers.
[00:27:39.520]I'd want to see as much as we talk about diversity in golf,
[00:27:43.570]and, the black players on the PGA Tour,
[00:27:47.290]withdraw only three or four right now that are playing,
[00:27:51.130]you have Joseph Bramlett, Cameron Champ, Harold Varner
[00:27:54.240]and Tiger Woods, there's four.
[00:27:56.670]To me it's about, okay, who's in the the C-suite?
[00:28:00.450]Who's in the commissioner's office?
[00:28:02.200]Who are the VPs and SVPs of the stakeholders in golf,
[00:28:08.910]the sponsors, the Fortune 500 companies?
[00:28:12.880]To me when you affect change there,
[00:28:16.380]that will help affect change, I think elsewhere.
[00:28:20.360]I think it starts at the top,
[00:28:21.610]but it also starts in the cradle,
[00:28:25.050]in those early education years as well.
[00:28:27.750]I wanna see the hopes and dreams
[00:28:31.160]of young people in the inner city,
[00:28:32.680]be as wide and as deep as the hopes and dreams
[00:28:38.180]of young people in the middle class and in the suburbs.
[00:28:42.330]It's a lot, it's a heavy lift, it's a heavy load,
[00:28:46.930]but I love our country,
[00:28:49.200]and I feel like as young as we are,
[00:28:51.450]people forget how young our country is,
[00:28:53.340]we still have a lot of growing and learning to do,
[00:28:55.400]and I still believe that our better days are ahead of us
[00:28:59.393]and not behind us.
[00:29:02.030]Well, Damon, thank you.
[00:29:03.190]I appreciate it, and I will verify,
[00:29:07.270]that Damon is one of the nicest smiliest people,
[00:29:11.090]I've ever met in this business or anywhere else in life
[00:29:14.490]and I appreciate you sharing some of who you are with us.
[00:29:20.000]I appreciate it very much.
[00:29:21.740]We've known each other a long time John,
[00:29:23.380]thanks so much to reaching out.
[00:29:24.680]You're welcome.
[00:29:25.513]Damon Hack, the Golf Channel, eight years now
[00:29:27.980]with the Golf Channel, Sports Illustrated, New York Times,
[00:29:30.860]Newsday, Sacramento Bee,
[00:29:32.470]it's been quite an interesting and varied career.
[00:29:35.230]Thanks.

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Damon Hack, Host, Morning Drive, Golf Channel

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