NE Space Law Week - (Student Session) Mentorship, Sponsorship, and Building a Professional Community

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10/08/2020 Added

12 Plays

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Elsbeth Magilton, Executive Director of Technology, Security, and Space Law Initiatives at Nebraska Law shares useful advice and tips with students about mentorship, sponsorship and networking.

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[00:00:11.130]Elsbeth Magilton: We're going to give it another minute for a few more people to trickle in.
[00:00:15.000]Elsbeth Magilton: It's a Friday morning after a big news cycle after a very long week so I am expecting that we're going to have a small group today, but that's great because that means after
[00:00:25.290]Elsbeth Magilton: I talk at you for a little while, you can talk at me, and we're going to have good questions and back and forth. So I'm I am pleased to have a small group here today as we move forward. So let's just give it one more minute. And we'll get started.
[00:00:56.310]Elsbeth Magilton: Alright, there's a few more people trickling and I see in the waiting room.
[00:01:01.770]Elsbeth Magilton: We're going to go ahead and probably get started, just to keep us on schedule for everyone because I know people have class and other and work and other things going on. So want to make sure that we are timely.
[00:01:12.990]Elsbeth Magilton: If you don't know me, my name is also with magenta and I'm the executive director for technology security and space law initiatives at the College of Law.
[00:01:20.010]Elsbeth Magilton: And under that umbrella is the space cyber and telecom program which many of you might be familiar with. That's who's putting on space law week this week.
[00:01:28.020]Elsbeth Magilton: And then I also am the Executive Director for our Nebraska governance and Technology Center, which is a brand new center that studying the relationships between law and technology more broadly.
[00:01:38.310]Elsbeth Magilton: So, this morning we have a pretty small group. I know it's a Friday morning at the end of a long week
[00:01:43.680]Elsbeth Magilton: Big news cycle. This Week in many different ways. And so I think a lot of people are feeling burned out. And if you're one of them. I feel for you. I am also feeling a little burned out.
[00:01:54.000]Elsbeth Magilton: So it's kind of great that we have a small group. I have a PowerPoint to kind of talk about mentorship sponsorship building a professional community right giving you what you signed up for.
[00:02:04.110]Elsbeth Magilton: But then I really want to do questions I think chat is disabled right now, but we will re enable that or obviously if you want to raise hand you can always ask questions at the end. And we'll move over into that, but thank you all for being here this morning. Let me share my screen.
[00:02:23.940]Elsbeth Magilton: Now, I was in a meeting, the other day, and someone didn't tell me when my sheet screen wasn't sharing correctly. So this is all on you if you're not seeing the right screen, please let me know.
[00:02:33.960]Elsbeth Magilton: This is what we're going to talk about today right sponsorship mentorship and building a professional community.
[00:02:40.800]Elsbeth Magilton: So first we're going to define these things right mentorship and sponsorship can be a little bit elusive to send people at the differences there.
[00:02:48.300]Elsbeth Magilton: And why you might talk about them or thinking about them in different ways.
[00:02:51.510]Elsbeth Magilton: What is networking and realize that sounds maybe a little silly like you're I know what networking hasn't been to a cocktail mixer. But I think it's much bigger than that. So I want to talk about
[00:03:00.570]Elsbeth Magilton: Taking it from a bigger perspective and then why these things are hard, right. Some people are more naturally inclined when it comes to being outgoing or networking. But that's not all that networking is and these are challenging
[00:03:13.680]Elsbeth Magilton: Pieces of career building for folks. And so I want to talk through what some of those challenges are and give you some really practical advice to overcome those things as you're heading out into the job market.
[00:03:24.720]Elsbeth Magilton: So first let's define sponsorship, because I think this is the one that the most amount of people are probably familiar with.
[00:03:31.080]Elsbeth Magilton: So a sponsor actively endorses a protege, right. So this is a person who has power co someone high up in your institution and will use it for you.
[00:03:40.740]Elsbeth Magilton: Right, so this is above and beyond just giving advice. This is putting their neck on the line to say this is who should get the promotion. This is who should get the raise
[00:03:48.060]Elsbeth Magilton: I'm going to give them, you know, these clients or this task that we know is going to benefit their career. So this is kind of a high stakes relationship.
[00:03:56.760]Elsbeth Magilton: In the 90s, particularly, there was actually quite a few sponsorship programs, both in the government and and corporations.
[00:04:04.560]Elsbeth Magilton: That kind of matched up mid level with higher level executives doesn't become a lot less popular mostly from pushback of high level executives who say, hey,
[00:04:13.980]Elsbeth Magilton: You know that as a standardized program. I don't know this person well enough to be putting my neck out for them.
[00:04:19.290]Elsbeth Magilton: I shouldn't be expected to advocate and and perhaps that's a really fair
[00:04:23.670]Elsbeth Magilton: Concern for those sorts of programs. I know that there are still some government agencies who do have formal sponsorship programs. I think it's particularly common in the intelligence agencies.
[00:04:32.670]Elsbeth Magilton: So although certainly not all of them still do this. But understand that a sponsor is really a high stakes relationship and come at it with the appropriate reverence for what it is if you have a relationship like that in your life.
[00:04:46.920]Elsbeth Magilton: Mentorship is a lot of different right and it's a lot bigger and broader you've probably already had a lot of mentors in your life right to get you to where you are now in law school or into your career and thinking about making this kind of pivot.
[00:05:01.440]Elsbeth Magilton: So these are people that are really just giving you guidance. I shouldn't say just guidance is really important, right to the important events.
[00:05:09.000]Elsbeth Magilton: How to Apply certifications publications, probably, most, most importantly, dealing with difficult situations in the workplace.
[00:05:15.690]Elsbeth Magilton: Or thinking about how to handle something that your boss said, or whatever XYZ. It might be
[00:05:20.670]Elsbeth Magilton: And these can range from really formal relationships where it's a defined program, you know, they're your mentor and this is when you meet and this is how you talk
[00:05:28.050]Elsbeth Magilton: To be the casual relationships that maybe you don't even call them a mentor and then you may have a mentor that you've never really labeled that way.
[00:05:37.050]Elsbeth Magilton: And then networking right I'm often when I say the word networking. I have students that are just like it feels like a dirty word right like know a lot of people don't like it.
[00:05:46.740]Elsbeth Magilton: And they don't like putting themselves out there in that way.
[00:05:49.650]Elsbeth Magilton: And this is a definition. I really like that. I think takes the edge off a little bit, but it's a deliberate activity to build reinforce and maintain relationships of trust.
[00:05:57.690]Elsbeth Magilton: That further both parties goals right networking doesn't need to be a minute for myself. And it's not just cocktail mixers. It's building a bigger community than that and we're going to dive in a little bit deeper.
[00:06:09.600]Elsbeth Magilton: When we talk about the challenges people face when they're thinking about mentorship, particularly in networking
[00:06:17.010]Elsbeth Magilton: So I want to start with a project, I started about five or six years ago and admittedly when I started this, this was specific to women and policy and women in STEM policy and thinking about how to build resiliency and students.
[00:06:30.120]Elsbeth Magilton: But I, as I've progressed in this, I still obviously lecture on women in STEM quite a bit. And it's still a passionate area for me.
[00:06:37.530]Elsbeth Magilton: But I've realized that most of us advice is just really good advice for any student. And so I've kind of synthesize pieces of that and bringing that to the table for all of you.
[00:06:47.730]Elsbeth Magilton: And so I started with six of our alumni who are
[00:06:52.050]Elsbeth Magilton: For lack of a better way of putting it, categorically successful right people who have jobs that are the kind of jobs.
[00:06:56.820]Elsbeth Magilton: That my current students are saying that's what I want to be when I grow up, they know that's who. Somebody I look up to and say that's the sort of job. I want to have
[00:07:04.230]Elsbeth Magilton: And I sat down initially with those six and did several one our interviews generally pretty casual. This is not a hardcore piece of research.
[00:07:12.780]Elsbeth Magilton: But just talk to them about their career stories. What was hard, what was good for them here at the university when it was may be bad for them here at the university right getting that critical feedback.
[00:07:22.950]Elsbeth Magilton: And I was able to identify reoccurring problematic experiences and identifying reoccurring advice and ideas and I thought that was interesting.
[00:07:29.910]Elsbeth Magilton: So since then, I've expanded this and altogether and have about, I don't know 40 or 50 hours of interviews with other alumni, as well as other people in the field to maybe more into our alumni.
[00:07:40.080]Elsbeth Magilton: And you know what these reoccurring experiences and advice actually didn't shift too much right. A lot of us have had very similar experiences out on the job front or in law school or an undergraduate school undergrad school or an undergrad.
[00:07:56.580]Elsbeth Magilton: And also, a lot of people have the same advice on how to overcome some of those things. And so that's what I have kind of put together here to walk us through
[00:08:04.410]Elsbeth Magilton: Some of the issues that we see. And so I put it into three categories. The first is crisis of confidence.
[00:08:09.870]Elsbeth Magilton: A lot of people refer to that as the imposter syndrome, meaning you feel like an imposter and your own job even though you do have the expertise, you need to do it.
[00:08:18.240]Elsbeth Magilton: But I want to talk about confidence and how to build confidence to take out with you on the job market. And I'm not talking about Kochi confidence talking about actual competency and feeling like you can express your expertise to people.
[00:08:33.480]Elsbeth Magilton: And I think we discussed was the lack of field specific mentorship that mentorship was really important, but they also felt like they needed mentors who were in their field.
[00:08:42.150]Elsbeth Magilton: And then a lack of self promotional skill building right that they didn't have the right skills to go out and promote themselves and an effective and meaningful way on the job market.
[00:08:51.330]Elsbeth Magilton: So we're gonna talk about why that's challenging and things you can do to build that skill set for yourself. And at the end of kind of synthesize this into a start doing and stop doing list, although I think the whole presentation is sort of a list of things to do.
[00:09:07.500]Elsbeth Magilton: So if you've ever said any of these statements to yourself. Right. And I bet everyone else knows what they're doing. I'm not a smart. I'm not naturally good at this. I'm just pretending right
[00:09:18.240]Elsbeth Magilton: You're very lucky person, most of us, at least at one point in some situation have had this go through our heads.
[00:09:24.660]Elsbeth Magilton: And I'm not saying this to be a bummer. I'm saying this, so that you know that you're not the only one who has this go through your head right as I've gone further and my career. It happens to me less, but it still happens right I still have times where I feel immensely intimidated.
[00:09:38.700]Elsbeth Magilton: And I get in my head with these sorts of things. And this is really what we're talking about with imposter syndrome or that crisis of confidence.
[00:09:45.150]Elsbeth Magilton: And that can really for shoot almost sabotage yourself in an interview or in a presentation or any other setting. When you're convinced yourself. You're not capable of doing what you are absolutely capable of doing.
[00:09:58.050]Elsbeth Magilton: So I want to depart some advice from our mentors and think about how we teach this right. How can we practice this in law school because it feels kind of like this mushy like emotional, psychological retreat kind of activity.
[00:10:10.710]Elsbeth Magilton: I don't think it has to be that. I think it's something that you can actually build into legal education.
[00:10:16.710]Elsbeth Magilton: And into job PrEP education to help people practice these skills. So the first is surviving failure which means getting situations where you might be able to fail, right, which is a difficult thing to think about a way to approach this as is as reflective right
[00:10:36.000]Elsbeth Magilton: When have I failed, and how did I survive that. Right. And going through that process of self reflection.
[00:10:41.580]Elsbeth Magilton: Another one is squashing negative self talk now if I knew the secret to how to squash negative self talk and just get yourself out of your head.
[00:10:50.400]Elsbeth Magilton: I wouldn't be here. I'd have a million dollars and be working someplace amazing on an island. Right. That's a really difficult thing to do.
[00:10:58.710]Elsbeth Magilton: One of the tricks that I use is to try and actually catch myself into realizing what I'm doing.
[00:11:03.840]Elsbeth Magilton: Which is, if I start having any of those phrases that were on the past slide that were those crisis of confidence phrases. I realize what's happening and I say that's not true weaponize it remember it.
[00:11:14.520]Elsbeth Magilton: And we'll give you some more skills to try and master, how to do that here on the next slide. I think finding work shape workplace partnerships is really important.
[00:11:22.800]Elsbeth Magilton: People who are similarly situated, and that's not always field specific to but finding other people who are in jobs, similar to you who are experiencing things similar to you. I think are really important.
[00:11:33.300]Elsbeth Magilton: And then the last one is visualizing success. And I have to admit when I was a law student role plays and visualizations. I was a cynic. I didn't want to do it. I thought it was silly, but it was stupid. It made me feel silly made me feel stupid. It didn't want to participate.
[00:11:49.800]Elsbeth Magilton: I can't underscore enough how wrong I was so good example for visualization right now. Recently, I decided that my JD wasn't enough. I've always really enjoyed political science research.
[00:12:00.900]Elsbeth Magilton: Particularly for deterrence theory and other pieces of national security as they relate to space policy.
[00:12:07.440]Elsbeth Magilton: And so I decided to go start working on my PhD in political science. And as I've been doing this I of course sometimes find it very difficult to get motivated
[00:12:16.680]Elsbeth Magilton: And it's also a little weird to be at a point in my career when I'm starting over with a brand new expertise.
[00:12:21.990]Elsbeth Magilton: And I don't know what I'm talking about. Most of the time, and kind of back in those shoes that I was in as a student.
[00:12:27.300]Elsbeth Magilton: And so often will visualize pieces of this journey to get me to read the next piece after it's been a long day at work, and I've had to put the kids to bed and all of that.
[00:12:35.700]Elsbeth Magilton: All visualize what it might feel like when I finally start on my dissertation and get my topics approved. When I finished cops.
[00:12:42.810]Elsbeth Magilton: When I published my first political science journal instead of a Law Journal write
[00:12:46.890]Elsbeth Magilton: Those moments that are going to be milestones in that and visualizing those moments, sometimes helped me hold on to the why right. Why am I doing this at 11 o'clock at night. That's why, that's why I want this right and so visualizing that success.
[00:13:00.390]Elsbeth Magilton: And all of these steps are really about resilience or the buzzword right now is kind of grit means the same thing, right, being resilient to failure in hardship.
[00:13:15.660]Elsbeth Magilton: So I went to the Journal of Educational Leadership and these are the quotes that I pulled out that I thought were particularly useful and applied to students in the law school setting.
[00:13:26.130]Elsbeth Magilton: So the first one is that grit is not having resilience in the face of failure. It's having deep commitments that you remain loyal to over many years.
[00:13:33.060]Elsbeth Magilton: And the reason that this one spoke to me as a way that you can build resilience is that I think this is a huge advantage that space and security passionate students have
[00:13:44.250]Elsbeth Magilton: I don't want to say anything bad about any other practice areas of the law, but it's my observation that space lot interested students care deeply about space, right, they are passionate about this.
[00:13:56.730]Elsbeth Magilton: And on those hard nights. The, you know, when you get the next rejection letter for a job that you were excited about XYZ whatever it is you can always fall back on how much you care about the subject area that you're excited about.
[00:14:08.370]Elsbeth Magilton: Right and having that deep commitment to space law, I think, is a major advantage that space law students have passion is not for nothing. And it means a lot when it comes to growing and building your career.
[00:14:20.430]Elsbeth Magilton: The next one here is to create hope show students to focus on the pathway, just as much as a long term graduate or as a long term destination.
[00:14:28.230]Elsbeth Magilton: For example, I was just talking about my visualization for the the project I'm working on right now my PhD.
[00:14:34.530]Elsbeth Magilton: In, of course, I like to imagine graduation day right i want to be done. I want to be doctor right
[00:14:40.800]Elsbeth Magilton: But that's not the only piece of this that matters, right, it's not like a light switch turns on. I didn't know things. And now I do know things. The day that I graduate.
[00:14:48.630]Elsbeth Magilton: The process and the journey is where you learn everything. Well, the same is true for finding a job.
[00:14:53.790]Elsbeth Magilton: And finding your first job out of law school is going to be harder than probably ever finding a job again in your life. Right. It's one of the hardest pieces of it because you don't have that experience built up yet.
[00:15:04.170]Elsbeth Magilton: But you're learning. You're learning how you're going to guide that process in the future. You're learning who you are.
[00:15:10.050]Elsbeth Magilton: As a candidate and how to position yourself as a candidate right so member Do they focus on the journey, not necessarily on that final destination.
[00:15:18.180]Elsbeth Magilton: And then we need to talk to students about what trying is right. So it's not just this abstract concept. I'll let you read the court. I won't read that out loud to you, but
[00:15:27.450]Elsbeth Magilton: Very often, I will say something like that to a student and they look at me and they go, I'm in law school. I know all about trying all I do is try
[00:15:34.890]Elsbeth Magilton: And that's absolutely right. You know, you had to have tried incredibly hard to be successful in law school to get into law school.
[00:15:42.720]Elsbeth Magilton: It's a huge achievement and you've learned a ton through that process and through that journey. Many students, however, have not seen what trying looks like in the job hunt just yet.
[00:15:51.990]Elsbeth Magilton: In fact, a lot of law students, maybe didn't get a few internships or extra chips here. There we didn't get the exact clerkship that they wanted, but very often have been relatively successful in terms of getting into law school.
[00:16:05.970]Elsbeth Magilton: Having at least moderate success. They're all those things. And I've never gone through a job hunt where you maybe aren't going to get 50 60%
[00:16:13.710]Elsbeth Magilton: Or more than that. Right. You're going to apply to 50 or 60 jobs. So I think it's important to acknowledge what trying looks like in the job hunt. Right. And it's not always easy.
[00:16:23.820]Elsbeth Magilton: And it can feel quite discouraging. So it's important to know that you're not alone in that in that effort is absolutely part of the process, it is not. There's no magic spell that makes this happen for people. It's about effort and about trying
[00:16:37.380]Elsbeth Magilton: So then teaching yourself confidence, right, so those are great things to focus on think on how do you teach it to yourself as a practical matter, right.
[00:16:46.440]Elsbeth Magilton: It's one thing to read inspirational quotes. It's a whole nother thing to actually put that into your daily practice. And so here's some of my advice.
[00:16:53.280]Elsbeth Magilton: Which is practice failing and bouncing back. Now I want to full stop, say, I'm not advocating for you to go and fill your finals and then say else Beth told me to do it. I have to practice.
[00:17:04.710]Elsbeth Magilton: Wrong. Absolutely. Try for, you know, high stakes failures recognize they might still not go well. And you'd have to cope with that, but certainly put the effort in
[00:17:13.440]Elsbeth Magilton: I'm thinking more of low key opportunities to try putting yourself out there and recognizing that maybe you're not perfect at everything. And that, that's okay, right.
[00:17:23.010]Elsbeth Magilton: And that helps you build up some resiliency. So maybe you try rock climbing.
[00:17:27.120]Elsbeth Magilton: Maybe you do some snowshoeing, whatever it might be that you've never done before.
[00:17:31.260]Elsbeth Magilton: You know best case scenario. It turns out you're awesome at rock climbing and you have a fantastic new hobby.
[00:17:35.790]Elsbeth Magilton: Worst case scenario, you've tried something new and you have an opportunity to practice being okay with yourself after being bad at something right
[00:17:43.830]Elsbeth Magilton: Always an opportunity for growth there and to get comfortable with the idea that you're not going to ace everything, every time you do it.
[00:17:52.020]Elsbeth Magilton: Another one that I like to provide for students is to review failures, rather than just hand written feedback.
[00:17:57.030]Elsbeth Magilton: I was terrible at this at law school. So I'm just going to own that that's something that was a bit of a struggle for me to hone my professional career.
[00:18:03.420]Elsbeth Magilton: Which is that when you get your exams back or a paperback, there may be sometimes legible comments written in the sides and you might have looked at those
[00:18:12.720]Elsbeth Magilton: But to go ahead and schedule that appointment with your professor right and get very accustomed to taking critical feedback.
[00:18:20.250]Elsbeth Magilton: Learning how to take critical feedback is absolutely a skill that's probably one of the most important skills.
[00:18:26.550]Elsbeth Magilton: I've also heard from several employers that when somebody mentioned that as something that they're that they have put effort into learning how to do
[00:18:34.980]Elsbeth Magilton: As an potential employee, which is to say, I recognize that I'm not going to do everything perfect first time around, and I appreciate feedback. And here's an example of a time that I took feedback and I did something with it.
[00:18:46.440]Elsbeth Magilton: That's really meaningful right and so practicing opportunities to do that, you know, if you have to go cry in your car. Afterwards, the first couple times a. Okay. We've all been there, right.
[00:18:56.760]Elsbeth Magilton: But recognizing that learning to hear hard things about stuff you worked hard on is an important skill.
[00:19:05.550]Elsbeth Magilton: A good frame of reference for this that that I like to bring to the table, particularly I'm giving difficult feedback now.
[00:19:11.220]Elsbeth Magilton: Is that being honest with somebody is being kind with somebody right because you want them to improve right if you don't care about someone's future you don't bother with feedback.
[00:19:20.580]Elsbeth Magilton: If someone's taking the time to tell you how to make something better, or where you went wrong, it's probably because they care about you and they want you to be successful.
[00:19:28.590]Elsbeth Magilton: Support others putting themselves out there.
[00:19:31.710]Elsbeth Magilton: I think that speaks for itself. But those relationships. Come back full circle. Talk about your failures open honestly comfortably. Right. And don't sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.
[00:19:43.380]Elsbeth Magilton: The one that I always use, for example, and this is that I failed the bar exam. The first time I took it. I missed it by 11 points or seven months pregnant. I cried a lot right but you dust yourself off and you try again. And you know that experience does not
[00:19:57.600]Elsbeth Magilton: Change my success now or any of the other things happening in my life. I know plenty of people who have had
[00:20:04.110]Elsbeth Magilton: Relatively major setbacks and have bounced back from those things with no problem. And so I think it's important to talk about that so that people don't think they're alone when they experienced those kinds of failures.
[00:20:13.920]Elsbeth Magilton: And then again visualizations and role play exercises. I know you will hate that. Here's where you can find some of those
[00:20:21.120]Elsbeth Magilton: So the ABA commission on women has a great project and they have a ton of free exercises really several
[00:20:26.730]Elsbeth Magilton: That are available for download. And these help you walk through difficult conversations, right, like when you have to give negative feedback or you have to get negative feedback.
[00:20:36.060]Elsbeth Magilton: I encourage you to, you know, find your law school st and try these exercises together. Do it with your brother, sister, your mom.
[00:20:43.410]Elsbeth Magilton: Whoever that you feel comfortable enough to try and do some of this. But if you've at least practiced, making sure that you keep your face neutral you've practiced saying hard words to somebody, even in a you know mock setting, it's that much easier when you have to do it in real life.
[00:21:00.330]Elsbeth Magilton: Alright so turning from confidence right which I realized you're kind of got touchy feely there, but I actually do think that those are job positioning pieces of advice and matter. But turning from that we're going to talk about mentorship.
[00:21:14.820]Elsbeth Magilton: So here's some of the problems with the advisors. I talked to, kind of, called out. The first is that role models on enough
[00:21:21.360]Elsbeth Magilton: So I want to preface that by saying that visibility matters. It absolutely does seeing people who look like you had similar pathways to you and positions that you're interested in.
[00:21:30.720]Elsbeth Magilton: Is important, but there's not enough to actually get you to that level. Personally, right. You need more guidance typically
[00:21:36.960]Elsbeth Magilton: A lack of field and expertise specific mentorship and then it kind of coupled with that that many of the advisors. I talked to actually actively faced rejection
[00:21:44.730]Elsbeth Magilton: For men and women when entering the tech sector. I think that there's sort of two reasons for those those last two bullets. The first is particularly for space.
[00:21:55.050]Elsbeth Magilton: The job market is growing, but it's growing slowly right
[00:21:58.740]Elsbeth Magilton: But there is even fewer people who have been in the position, who have been in the space industry for more than say 10 or 15 years right. In fact, there's a relatively limited number of professionals.
[00:22:07.740]Elsbeth Magilton: Who are what I would say at the mid level to high level parts of their career.
[00:22:11.580]Elsbeth Magilton: We have space. And at a certain point, they're tapped out you know that I can think of at least 10 people right now who are in that position, who I know do a ton for young people.
[00:22:20.790]Elsbeth Magilton: Are new professionals to the industry, but they only have so much bandwidth to help so many people right so it's it's it's a niche issue of we're a small industry.
[00:22:30.210]Elsbeth Magilton: Where it's growing a lot of those people maybe don't have as much experience or as much capacity to mentor others.
[00:22:37.260]Elsbeth Magilton: In terms of full on rejection for mentorship. I think sometimes there's a competitive piece that people say, if I give this person a hand up. Maybe I don't get the job that I want later.
[00:22:46.800]Elsbeth Magilton: I don't have a perfect remedy for that, other than to say don't be one of those people in the future.
[00:22:53.070]Elsbeth Magilton: And recognize that if you're doing your job well people behind you on a threat and lifting them up only helps create a bigger, better network for yourself and people who are. Remember that you give them their start
[00:23:06.690]Elsbeth Magilton: So when we're thinking about how do we solve this issue of finding these mentors. Here's some of the advice that we have first take advantage of those awkward pre existing programs. So most law schools have alumni mentorship programs.
[00:23:18.480]Elsbeth Magilton: The ABA has several most of the sections and State Bar exam or bar exam state bar associations have mentorship program. So there's a good swath of ones to kind of look at most professional associations.
[00:23:32.790]Elsbeth Magilton: Those can really go multiple ways, right. Sometimes they turn into wonderful relationships where you get a lot out of it.
[00:23:39.870]Elsbeth Magilton: Sometimes it's not a person you know person joined it because they wanted to make their partners happy.
[00:23:45.690]Elsbeth Magilton: They were trying to impress the people at the bar association, but they're really not that engaged in being a mentor.
[00:23:51.120]Elsbeth Magilton: So I've heard really mixed results for a lot of those
[00:23:54.420]Elsbeth Magilton: But the worst case scenario is is achieving age with a program that your bar association or your school or whatever group is trying to run
[00:24:01.920]Elsbeth Magilton: And they want people to engage with this program. So you will at least become someone on their list that cares enough to be a part of the program.
[00:24:09.240]Elsbeth Magilton: And will get hit up again to do future things right. So if the worst case scenario, it's still a pretty good situation to be in.
[00:24:16.200]Elsbeth Magilton: Now you might say, I'm never going to find a space lawyer. I'm one of those programs. I live in XYZ state. There's no space lawyers, what's the point of me doing this.
[00:24:24.690]Elsbeth Magilton: My encouragement to you would be to not worry about it being specific to space look for somebody who does transactional or contracts.
[00:24:32.430]Elsbeth Magilton: Someone who's working at a government agency who's doing regulatory work or policy work something that's adjacent enough to what we're doing. They can still really give you advice in terms of breaking into the government or breaking into corporate counsel.
[00:24:46.080]Elsbeth Magilton: And those types of positions. Right. So remember that while we are a niche industry a lot of the day to day practice areas are really related to other day to day practice areas and other industries.
[00:24:55.740]Elsbeth Magilton: And seek out those sorts of mentors and advisors and that might be sometimes the key to the first job as well, which isn't going to prepare you to then pivot back into the space industry.
[00:25:06.090]Elsbeth Magilton: Remember also that these relationships. Don't have to be formal.
[00:25:09.840]Elsbeth Magilton: People are skittish right if someone emails me and says, we'd be your mentor sounds like, Do I have time, I'm going to let them down I you know I don't know if that's right
[00:25:18.720]Elsbeth Magilton: But I have plenty of people that I know I do. Mentor right that come and talk to me and they we have we have asked me questions and we have a good conversation.
[00:25:26.850]Elsbeth Magilton: They can be casual relationships. They don't have to be labeled and you don't have to treat them that way. I think that's an important thing to remember.
[00:25:34.920]Elsbeth Magilton: And other thing is term that you might have different mentors for different goals or needs.
[00:25:38.310]Elsbeth Magilton: Often I hear students say, hey, I can't find a mentor. I need, I need my person and there isn't a person. Right. Recall that for different parts of your career, there might be different people who impact you.
[00:25:50.550]Elsbeth Magilton: A good example of this is when I first started sitting on some nonprofit boards, a woman who was a friend of mine. She's in marketing totally different industry we run in totally different circles.
[00:26:00.630]Elsbeth Magilton: But we had similar interests that converts for these nonprofits that we sat on the board for and she was in an officer and positions of authority on those boards and I was not
[00:26:09.870]Elsbeth Magilton: And I saw her she was running things that God, she is good, right, like this is a sort of one I want to emulate
[00:26:16.470]Elsbeth Magilton: How does she manage this and make us all feel so heard while still acknowledging the mission of the of the nonprofit.
[00:26:23.370]Elsbeth Magilton: And so I took her out for lunch, and we just started talking and in overtime. She's absolutely become a really important mentor to me has nothing to do with space law.
[00:26:31.920]Elsbeth Magilton: But some of the skills that I've applied both at nonprofit boards have also applied to boards and groups that I work with in the space Slack community.
[00:26:39.000]Elsbeth Magilton: And so look for mentors in different parts of your life in your priority have that right. Is there someone you go to advice for marriage or kids or
[00:26:48.360]Elsbeth Magilton: Any other activity, your hobby, you have maybe you're a runner right you have mentors that help you in different areas, your careers, no different. And then might be different parts of your career that are going to have different mentors.
[00:26:59.850]Elsbeth Magilton: You might still be saying to yourself, that's lovely. I still have none of those
[00:27:04.470]Elsbeth Magilton: Or maybe do some of those, but they're, they're still not filling the gaps that you think you have in a spaceflight industry and that's very fair and very real. So one of the
[00:27:13.650]Elsbeth Magilton: I think it's kind of a strange piece of advice, but it's worked out really well in my life and I've seen it work out for a lot of other people is to bypass that IRL or that in real life.
[00:27:23.190]Elsbeth Magilton: Relationship to get a mentor. So a lot of what's useful about a field specific somebody who's in space law and cyber law, whatever your subject area is
[00:27:32.640]Elsbeth Magilton: Is that they tell you what conferences matter what you should be reading
[00:27:36.960]Elsbeth Magilton: You know, who is the most persuasive in the area, all of that. Well, a lot of those people are also pretty active on Twitter and some of them on LinkedIn as well. And you can start to
[00:27:48.390]Elsbeth Magilton: I don't want to say stock because that has a very negative connotation, but you can stalk them.
[00:27:52.260]Elsbeth Magilton: On social media and see what conferences, they're going to what they're reading. You can also see who they're following right who it is worth their time to have pop up in their feed and think through
[00:28:04.140]Elsbeth Magilton: What they're doing where they're going and you can start to get a lay of the land that way. I think it can be a really powerful tool.
[00:28:12.480]Elsbeth Magilton: There's an astrophysicist and England and her name is Jess that I followed for years and years and she does a ton of work on women in the sciences and she posted a few articles that were particularly relevant to a project I was working on.
[00:28:26.730]Elsbeth Magilton: And I've kind of always been. I had been a Twitter fan girl of hers for a while. And so I actually looked up on
[00:28:34.410]Elsbeth Magilton: Her University's website her faculty address and sent her thank you know for a couple of articles that she had tweeted and said, hey,
[00:28:41.610]Elsbeth Magilton: I love following you on Twitter. These particular articles really helped me with this project I'm working on, you know, thank you for everything you're doing for the space community and the physics community on Twitter.
[00:28:51.450]Elsbeth Magilton: And my business card in there and pops it in the mail. Well, you know, about two or three weeks later I got this email that just said that was the highlight of my week that was. Thank you so much.
[00:29:01.890]Elsbeth Magilton: And then about a year later I actually got to meet her in person when she came through on a different project and went out of her way to seek me out.
[00:29:07.290]Elsbeth Magilton: And now we've worked together a couple different times. Right, so I leveraged a Twitter. Follow into an actual connection that helped me with a project I was working on. So don't be afraid to use Twitter that way.
[00:29:18.810]Elsbeth Magilton: Certainly be thoughtful with their social media use. I always feel like that's a caveat I need to put out there.
[00:29:24.090]Elsbeth Magilton: But the spacewalk community. I think based on our nature and love of tech and news in all of those things tends to be pretty active on Twitter. Not everybody that it's still an insular group.
[00:29:35.460]Elsbeth Magilton: But being aware of the space law community on Twitter and LinkedIn, I think is absolutely worth a new professionals time
[00:29:44.010]Elsbeth Magilton: So let's turn back to networking and self promotion. So we've talked about confidence. We've talked about mentorship some other solutions to some of the common problems.
[00:29:51.570]Elsbeth Magilton: Were at our final box before we get to the end of me talking at you. I'm talking about network and self promotion. And so I went to my advisors. And I said, Well, what do you wish you practiced. What do you wish you knew what would you have done differently, before you hit the job market.
[00:30:08.970]Elsbeth Magilton: The number one thing that they have all said over and over and over again was public speaking and this is not a huge surprise really
[00:30:17.790]Elsbeth Magilton: There's a few reasons for this is that a being comfortable talking in front of others is going to be a key part of the lawyers job whether your transactional
[00:30:25.710]Elsbeth Magilton: Or litigator whatever you're doing lawyers are called upon to solve problems calmly with composure and represent
[00:30:34.290]Elsbeth Magilton: Their clients interests and needs in many different ways, right. So even if you're not standing in front of a judge, there's still going to be times where you were speaking in front of a group of people
[00:30:42.150]Elsbeth Magilton: And you need to be calm and collected and know what you're talking about. And the best way to get good at that is to practice it.
[00:30:48.480]Elsbeth Magilton: The other reason. I think it's particularly useful and I didn't really see this coming in terms of advice.
[00:30:53.370]Elsbeth Magilton: But for many of them. They felt it was one of the ways that cemented their experience, expertise to themselves.
[00:30:58.290]Elsbeth Magilton: That it's one thing to sit in an office and write about it and then you're still dealing with all those confidence issues.
[00:31:03.330]Elsbeth Magilton: But when they got up and presented on what they were working on or shared it with their boss and fielded questions and then afterwards REALIZED THAT MAYBE THEY WEREN'T PERFECT, BUT THEY FEEL THAT ALL THOSE QUESTIONS.
[00:31:13.380]Elsbeth Magilton: And they could, they didn't know what they were talking about and help them build self confidence. Right.
[00:31:19.620]Elsbeth Magilton: So two years ago or several years ago I did a two year long challenge in 2016 2017
[00:31:26.310]Elsbeth Magilton: Not incidentally to when I was working on this project and trying to take their advice for myself as well as the students. I was working with
[00:31:32.550]Elsbeth Magilton: This be publicly once a month. And so this spanned as you might imagine, like rotary clubs and like lunch clubs that my aunt was a part of
[00:31:40.440]Elsbeth Magilton: All the way to lecture halls and I still average about 12 to 14 public events per year, although they're not spread out evenly problem months.
[00:31:49.530]Elsbeth Magilton: But I encourage you to try something like this. And to be clear, in those two years when I was really building up my skills and my background as a lecturer and a public speaker.
[00:32:01.320]Elsbeth Magilton: I had to go out and find these opportunities in fact probably almost 75%. They didn't ask me, I asked them.
[00:32:08.550]Elsbeth Magilton: So don't be too afraid to do that. One of the groups. I mean, it was like five people in an astronomy club, who, you know,
[00:32:15.750]Elsbeth Magilton: Were they were actually very kind and they taught me how to use my telescope. It was a cool experience. Even if maybe it wasn't a bit humbling.
[00:32:22.440]Elsbeth Magilton: But my advice here is to is to not to be willing to talk to anybody. And the great news is that means you're also out spreading the Gospel of how cool Space LA is
[00:32:31.590]Elsbeth Magilton: One community person at a time. Right. And this is a thing. And this is what we're researching and this is what we're talking about. And you're going to learn more about the subject area. So whether it's your parents Rotary Club or Kiwanis Club.
[00:32:44.640]Elsbeth Magilton: Or some group at school that you can get together with
[00:32:48.300]Elsbeth Magilton: Talking to the undergrad population should reach out to your undergrad offices for recruitment.
[00:32:54.570]Elsbeth Magilton: They might be really interested in having law students that come talk about specific subject areas right there's always opportunities to find to practice public speaking and it's one of the most important skills that you can master.
[00:33:06.480]Elsbeth Magilton: Alright, so for thinking about like traditional networking like the holding the line class and your cocktail weenies at the same time cocktail mixer.
[00:33:14.400]Elsbeth Magilton: There's a few pieces of advice that I think are particularly relevant
[00:33:17.580]Elsbeth Magilton: So the first is to always go and asking how can I help this person, not how can they help me if you walk in the room thinking this is where I'm going to find my job. You're going to walk out incredibly disappointed and probably have not making the best connections possible
[00:33:32.520]Elsbeth Magilton: And the feedback. I don't like it when I give us advice is, I'm a to LR I'm a three. Oh, how am I supposed to help a partner at a law firm.
[00:33:39.270]Elsbeth Magilton: In maybe you're not the person that's going to give them the break. And the next thing case or or do some legal research and they're standing there with your cocktail weenies right
[00:33:48.030]Elsbeth Magilton: Well, they're thinking about how you can be of service to others. Maybe that means that you're going to refer a client to them at some point.
[00:33:54.240]Elsbeth Magilton: When they're talking about what they're working on. Maybe they're talking about where they're going on vacation and you've been there and you can recommend the best trailhead right
[00:34:01.260]Elsbeth Magilton: Even if you don't find a way that you can be useful, the tone that you take. And the way that you present yourself as someone who's trying to be helpful will always be persuasive.
[00:34:11.850]Elsbeth Magilton: And will always be memorable. The other really just blatant piece of advice here is, don't jump straight to jobs and makes people uncomfortable.
[00:34:19.200]Elsbeth Magilton: Right, so you immediately jump into jokes about being unemployed or asking if they're hiring understand that most people at these types of events.
[00:34:26.910]Elsbeth Magilton: Are going to have hiring authority on the spot, right, that's not something that they can do.
[00:34:31.710]Elsbeth Magilton: And they might not even know if they have open jobs. They've just been told by their partner to show up at this networking mixer or whatever it might be.
[00:34:38.880]Elsbeth Magilton: Or they're not a network for themselves. Right, so
[00:34:42.750]Elsbeth Magilton: Recognize that that's not really the best way to approach those kinds of conversations and also recognize that not every conversation you have is going to turn into a major relationship.
[00:34:51.870]Elsbeth Magilton: If you walk away from a networking mixer with one or two people that you plan to follow up with via email. And that's a success, even if you talk to 25. I mean, that's just kind of the reality of those sorts of settings.
[00:35:04.590]Elsbeth Magilton: And now that I've just told you to ask them about themselves entirely. Here's how you're going to talk about yourself. It's
[00:35:10.710]Elsbeth Magilton: Going to come up at some point they're going to ask you what you're passionate about what you do.
[00:35:16.080]Elsbeth Magilton: You know what, why are you here, what, what's your story and be prepared for that and
[00:35:21.720]Elsbeth Magilton: Every single advisor that I've talked to you is talked about these kind of like this idea of self promotional talks or your elevator pitch or your two minute talk. There's lots of little buzzword. He names for it.
[00:35:30.960]Elsbeth Magilton: But however you shake it down. It's essentially being able to introduce yourself.
[00:35:34.590]Elsbeth Magilton: what your passion is why it's your passion and what you're doing about it in a really brief period of time, and to be really confident about the way that you present that
[00:35:43.050]Elsbeth Magilton: And again, I think this is a place for space law students, maybe have an edge in terms of being really passionate about what we do.
[00:35:50.130]Elsbeth Magilton: One thing I would encourage, particularly for space students is to not fall back on since I was a kid I've loved space.
[00:35:57.330]Elsbeth Magilton: It's sweet, it's probably true. It's true for most of us in space.
[00:36:00.990]Elsbeth Magilton: But it's not. It doesn't tell the most compelling story about how you want to engage with the spaceflight industry.
[00:36:06.840]Elsbeth Magilton: So think what it is about space law that really excites you, right, maybe environmental law is one of your other passions and you're really interested in herbal debris issues or harmful contamination.
[00:36:18.030]Elsbeth Magilton: Maybe the diplomacy aspect of space law is what really attracts you to this that right. It's really an internationally focused body of law.
[00:36:26.310]Elsbeth Magilton: And you find that really interesting. Maybe you're really excited about security and defense and spaces of warfighting domain.
[00:36:32.250]Elsbeth Magilton: Right. But think through why space so interesting to you or what part of space law make ignite your passion and why
[00:36:39.570]Elsbeth Magilton: And then talk about what it is that you want to do with that right. Don't try and answer the world's problems, you don't have the experience, the people you're talking to my have
[00:36:47.130]Elsbeth Magilton: But you can at least say this is what I want to continue to pursue because that makes me really excited and interested, right, and then they might have much more specific advice to you based on those passions and so it's always worth your time to share what you care about with others.
[00:37:03.270]Elsbeth Magilton: So one thing that always comes up when we're talking about professional skill building a salary negotiations and so I wanted to talk about it really quickly.
[00:37:10.530]Elsbeth Magilton: The first piece of advice is to know your numbers and why they're your numbers. If you're going to come back.
[00:37:16.260]Elsbeth Magilton: With a new salary number. And I always encourage students to advocate for themselves and to negotiate for themselves but to be really thoughtful about it.
[00:37:24.780]Elsbeth Magilton: I have a tear of a horror story about the three years ago I had an employer, call me and say, hey, we give an offer to one of your students.
[00:37:31.980]Elsbeth Magilton: We offered them X and they came back with like three times x, or they kidding. Like what am I supposed to do with that. Right. Like that's completely outside the realm of possibility and outside the realm of what they are capable case should be earning at this point in your career.
[00:37:51.450]Elsbeth Magilton: You know I contact that student kind of walked him back and said, I think I would approach them before they even reapproved before they even respond to you about here's, here's what you need to say right um
[00:38:02.700]Elsbeth Magilton: But know what those numbers are. Yes, absolutely. Within a few thousand here and there, but be thoughtful of those numbers and have a reason for picking that number, right, give evidence as to why you think your experiences commiserate with that pay
[00:38:15.480]Elsbeth Magilton: So it's absolutely okay to advocate for yourself. In fact, I encourage you to do it, particularly women who we know don't do it as much statistically
[00:38:22.590]Elsbeth Magilton: But be thoughtful and your in the way you approach it.
[00:38:26.490]Elsbeth Magilton: If you're going to do it in an email. Make sure there's always another set of eyes on it if it's going to happen in an actual meeting.
[00:38:33.930]Elsbeth Magilton: Again, I'm going to tell you to do real play after exercises the ABA has an excellent library of exercises, and I believe with your SBA accounts, all of that is available to you as well.
[00:38:44.370]Elsbeth Magilton: And also, like, I know our College of Business as a specialty program where people can go in and practice with strangers, so it's
[00:38:50.640]Elsbeth Magilton: It's still a mock exercise, but I think it's a little bit more effective because it's not your friend right it's someone you don't know
[00:38:56.730]Elsbeth Magilton: And I know we're not the only Business College in the country that has a program like that. So, look around at your own university or your own career services offices.
[00:39:04.470]Elsbeth Magilton: And practice have that plan and say the words. The other thing to consider, particularly if you're looking at like a government or nonprofit position.
[00:39:12.750]Elsbeth Magilton: It's very possible that they really don't have any wiggle room. So even if you ask for two or $3,000 more $10,000 more they might take
[00:39:19.830]Elsbeth Magilton: This just simply not possible for that GS level or based on what our funders of approved for that position, it might just be that that's not something that they can do.
[00:39:29.010]Elsbeth Magilton: But remember the advocating for yourself isn't just about money agree example, there was a gal. I went to law school with, she was a single mom, she had two kids.
[00:39:36.750]Elsbeth Magilton: And one of the most important things for her was picking up her kids after school right and having dinner together. So she wanted to make sure she was off by 330 or four every day.
[00:39:45.300]Elsbeth Magilton: So she could pick up her kids and you know have dinner with them.
[00:39:48.840]Elsbeth Magilton: She was willing, however, to get help in the morning rush and have a before school program and have someone who helps her get the kids to school in the morning.
[00:39:55.530]Elsbeth Magilton: And so during her negotiation for accepting her position. She said, Hey, if I come into work every day at 630 and I start billing hours at 6:30am
[00:40:04.170]Elsbeth Magilton: If I leave by 330 that won't. You know, if I put this in writing. Now it's part of my contract.
[00:40:09.000]Elsbeth Magilton: It won't be this awkward thing around the staff and other attorneys here, it'll be something that has been defined and then I negotiated for
[00:40:14.940]Elsbeth Magilton: And that is part of the expectation from the first day I start. That's what I'm asking for it. They said, Yeah, sure. Right, so there's there's ways that you can
[00:40:22.410]Elsbeth Magilton: Think about things in a different way. Or maybe you want to start with a different amount of vacation time like they might not be able to always bump up that pay but there might be other things that you can negotiate for that, or of us to
[00:40:33.360]Elsbeth Magilton: subpopulations conferences and certifications.
[00:40:37.440]Elsbeth Magilton: Want to talk about certifications. This might be for some of you who might be double threats, right, if you have any sort of technical certification, if you, you know, just go out there and start googling law review journals or space journals or national particularly national security journals.
[00:40:53.040]Elsbeth Magilton: Looking for conferences, there's so many. And it's really hard to know which ones are actually taken seriously.
[00:40:59.640]Elsbeth Magilton: You know what awards what all of those things. What's really persuasive in the field. And this is really intimidating.
[00:41:06.630]Elsbeth Magilton: And I really think that faculty get accustomed to this because it's part of their job right, they have to publish, they have to go to these events.
[00:41:13.020]Elsbeth Magilton: And they forget how much they didn't know when they first enter it and how big of a barrier to entry. There is when you're getting to know the industry.
[00:41:20.820]Elsbeth Magilton: And so my big piece of advice is that these are great networking questions right what certifications are really important to you. Like I, you know, I'm really confident with my c++ skills.
[00:41:29.610]Elsbeth Magilton: But is it worth paying that 50 bucks to take this test and put that on my resume or is that meaningless to most employers.
[00:41:35.970]Elsbeth Magilton: You know, I'm thinking about saving money to go to X conference. What do you think of that conference. Is there good networking, there is that going to be worth my time.
[00:41:43.410]Elsbeth Magilton: And people love to talk about their expertise in a subject area. And so these are the great kind of questions to ask them, but also just don't be afraid to ask your faculty
[00:41:52.230]Elsbeth Magilton: Anyone that you're working with them to get the lay of the land, but this is one of my biggest piece of networking tools. People love to give you their opinion about their field. So, ask them, and then collect that information.
[00:42:04.890]Elsbeth Magilton: Alright, so we're about done. I bet you're all like as a lot of talking, we're going to do our starts list first. So what should you start doing tomorrow to practice all of these things.
[00:42:15.960]Elsbeth Magilton: Public Speaking finding opportunities networking right practicing your two minute promotional speech, recognizing that it's not just handing out your cards as many people as possible at a cocktail event.
[00:42:29.610]Elsbeth Magilton: Seeking critical feedback and providing critical feedback to your performance and finding mentors online or in real life, particularly online go and hit up some of these companies follow their Twitter and pay attention to the people that they're following
[00:42:45.870]Elsbeth Magilton: What did you stop doing tomorrow.
[00:42:48.300]Elsbeth Magilton: The first one is one that I'm particularly bad at. And so I always tell it to everybody else so that we can all work on it together, which is to abandon qualifiers like I think or, in my opinion, right, just state your knowledge.
[00:42:58.680]Elsbeth Magilton: And encourage your peers to do the same, that little piece of confidence building, you might find has a really huge effect on your day to day life.
[00:43:06.120]Elsbeth Magilton: And second, to kind of go together and
[00:43:09.240]Elsbeth Magilton: Recognize that the job hunt is not going to be a perfect experience and that it's highly unlikely that your first job is going to be the perfect job, right, because it's the first job is not the last job, it's the first job right.
[00:43:22.620]Elsbeth Magilton: Everything that I see frequently as students feeling that their peers are finding jobs super easily
[00:43:28.050]Elsbeth Magilton: This has been really blatant a few different times in my career where someone comes in and uses a peer of theirs as an example of also so easy for them and then literally the next day that peers in their life. I'm so struggling. I don't know what to do.
[00:43:42.390]Elsbeth Magilton: That for most people right there.
[00:43:46.230]Elsbeth Magilton: Is just as much work and effort going on behind the scenes, even if they're not willing to admit that publicly you're talking about it publicly
[00:43:53.640]Elsbeth Magilton: Everyone struggles with this piece.
[00:43:56.280]Elsbeth Magilton: And it's very normal to struggle. So I just kind of want to normalize all of that for everybody, which is to say that the find that first job out of law school is rarely a hyper streamlined process for the majority of your class.
[00:44:07.620]Elsbeth Magilton: And there's a few people out there. Of course, you may be you're reading out of a clerkship but those are actually few and far between, especially these days.
[00:44:14.580]Elsbeth Magilton: That model doesn't function quite like it used to. So that is my start and stop list and sort of the end of that formal presentation.
[00:44:23.640]Elsbeth Magilton: That PowerPoint will be available with the video when we post it online. If it was of use to you and you think that is interesting, but now I'm going to look for tiny blue hands. I suppose in the participant list or let's turn on chat so people can chat.
[00:44:40.560]Elsbeth Magilton: And if you have any questions for me.
[00:44:44.910]Elsbeth Magilton: I'm not super excited to stand sit here and keep talking. So I'm not going to define things to say, just for fun.
[00:44:57.990]Elsbeth Magilton: So where are these videos and notes when we put up so we are building a specific page to space all week. And so if you go to the conference website.
[00:45:06.360]Elsbeth Magilton: Where we talked about usually our DC conference or our space law conferences at law that url.edu backslash backslash backslash space cyber law, all one word, we will be building up a page there.
[00:45:22.140]Elsbeth Magilton: Yeah, absolutely. These videos are going to be available publicly to everyone.
[00:45:27.060]Elsbeth Magilton: The question, of course, in chat was there available to students outside of Nebraska law. And yes, absolutely.
[00:45:34.380]Elsbeth Magilton: identifying potential mentors. I think the first thing to look for is people who not only have a sort of career that you're interested in, but people who also sort of have the career balance, you're interested in
[00:45:46.500]Elsbeth Magilton: And it's okay for that to be different for different people. Right. Like, I knew that for me. I didn't want a career that was going to be, you know, more than 40 hours a week, I wanted to extreme flexibility.
[00:46:01.080]Elsbeth Magilton: And so I identified people who I thought were doing those sorts of things and thought, well, how are they, what are they doing
[00:46:07.020]Elsbeth Magilton: It might be that you are hyper passionate and you want to go.
[00:46:10.350]Elsbeth Magilton: I'm not that I'm not passionate, but that you might have a different sense of how much you're willing to work for what it is that you love.
[00:46:16.320]Elsbeth Magilton: And how you balance that. And so you might see somebody that's like, oh, they're gonna they're fantastic. That's what I'm interested in.
[00:46:23.640]Elsbeth Magilton: I think there's a few ways to do it. I think a cold approach can be a little off putting. So if you just email someone and say, Hey, can I take you out for lunch.
[00:46:31.590]Elsbeth Magilton: Sometimes works. And sometimes those get lost in the email. I think it's particularly useful if you find something that they tweeted, or a panel that they were on
[00:46:40.740]Elsbeth Magilton: Some events that they've recently been a part of and you can shoot them an email or even a private message on Twitter if they're active they're only if they're really active normally you try and use an email.
[00:46:51.540]Elsbeth Magilton: And compliment them on their performance on the panel and particularly if you have a even a quote or a comment that they made you thought was particularly compelling.
[00:46:59.910]Elsbeth Magilton: But starting it based on. Hey, I've already done my research, I already know some stuff about you. And here's something that you did. I thought was really interesting.
[00:47:09.120]Elsbeth Magilton: So I think that that is a really useful way to approach people is not just
[00:47:14.070]Elsbeth Magilton: Hey, I think you're really cool. Can we have a phone call, but rather, Hey, I heard you on that panel and what you said about remote satellite servicing was really interesting to me. I'd love to ask you some follow up questions.
[00:47:26.580]Elsbeth Magilton: I think another really important thing when you reach out with emails like that is to not just say, can we get together sometime, but to actually say, you know, do you have a secretary or an office assistant secretary office assistant. I can schedule this with or
[00:47:42.210]Elsbeth Magilton: You know, let me know if you'd like me to suggest some times that might work for you so that way you're not putting the onus on them to schedule it
[00:47:49.500]Elsbeth Magilton: Because I think a lot of professionals, they get very, very busy and then they get really stressed out if there's one more thing on their plate, and that's how it goes on responded to. And so if you make that easy for them, they're much more likely to meet up with you.
[00:48:02.880]Elsbeth Magilton: Lots of time over handwritten notes. Do you think that's still true. So, um, I see some of my recent alumni on this list. And I know they're going to laugh because they know how Nebraskan. I am
[00:48:13.350]Elsbeth Magilton: I love a good handwritten note right Amanda says she's laughing I full on believer, but it also might be because my grandmother would disown me if she thought I ever let something go by without a handwritten thank you know
[00:48:26.130]Elsbeth Magilton: I think they can be persuasive. I don't think they're always necessary, though, right. So when someone has really gone above and beyond to do something or if they spoke on a panel for me.
[00:48:36.270]Elsbeth Magilton: I appreciate those I do actually think they're still pretty persuasive and the job market. I you know what I've used them and when I've had students use them when they've interviewed us particularly at law firms. I think it's very persuasive.
[00:48:50.460]Elsbeth Magilton: I think they need to also be quick. So when I was on the job hunt. I actually very often will have the envelope ready to go.
[00:48:57.000]Elsbeth Magilton: And then write the note quick in my car and literally drive by a mailbox and mail at the same day. I had to interview to make sure it got there.
[00:49:03.540]Elsbeth Magilton: If that's something that you know use you forget or you don't have the capacity to do 100%, you have to send a thank you email, right. I think a handwritten notes better. I'm a believer
[00:49:13.350]Elsbeth Magilton: But if that's something that you know you get escapes you. And you don't get to it and it's going to be, you know, four or five days out some sort of. Thank you. I think is incredibly important and it's very meaningful to people.
[00:49:28.320]Elsbeth Magilton: I like markets advice. Yes, just sending out
[00:49:32.070]Elsbeth Magilton: It's also good excuse to buy fun stationary right and to enjoy that part of the process.
[00:49:39.600]Elsbeth Magilton: Okay, maybe this sounds cynical and awful but kind of going on the right side is gave about how to approach a mentor based on something that they've done and the thank you notes.
[00:49:48.390]Elsbeth Magilton: Is and I'm not excluding myself in this. I'm not saying that people are silly, but people have to feel special.
[00:49:54.660]Elsbeth Magilton: Right. And so if you make them feel special. They're more likely to pay attention to whatever it is that you might be asking them to do, or to engage with you.
[00:50:03.090]Elsbeth Magilton: And think about how much you appreciate it when someone tells you that you did something really awesome or that they really like something you had to say or genuinely thank you for for spending time with them.
[00:50:13.710]Elsbeth Magilton: That's really meaningful and it's really meaningful to everybody to so even if they're a hiring manager, there still a person
[00:50:20.820]Elsbeth Magilton: And they like to feel heard and appreciated for their time.
[00:50:31.290]Elsbeth Magilton: My boss. Does this thing where we sit in silence for 17 seconds before he will have a conversation and to make sure that everybody's really had an opportunity to ask what they wanted to ask
[00:50:41.670]Elsbeth Magilton: And it's painful.
[00:50:43.890]Elsbeth Magilton: But I'm gonna make us do it.
[00:50:52.530]Elsbeth Magilton: I'm not actually timing it my watch, just told me it was time to stand up.
[00:50:57.330]Elsbeth Magilton: What are the best conferences. Alright, so this might differ a little bit based on
[00:51:01.740]Elsbeth Magilton: What your specialty area is right. If you want to go national security, you're out. I'm probably going to list a few different things. But generally speaking,
[00:51:09.030]Elsbeth Magilton: For space law, you really need to pay attention first and foremost to the IC. If you're not familiar with the International Astronautical Congress, it moves around to different places in the world every year.
[00:51:19.230]Elsbeth Magilton: Which might means that sometimes it's more accessible to students than others because it's also relatively expensive.
[00:51:24.570]Elsbeth Magilton: But this year. It's actually free. It's online. So you're not going to get as much of the networking opportunities, obviously. But in terms of the content and figuring out who kind of some of the big names.
[00:51:35.760]Elsbeth Magilton: Are it's absolutely worth your time to go register. So it's I see 2020 I think they're hashtag is cyberspace. I see 2020 years, something like that.
[00:51:45.960]Elsbeth Magilton: That you can find them pretty easily that Congress is put on by a few different organizations, one of which is the International Institute of space law or is
[00:51:55.590]Elsbeth Magilton: Most of you might be familiar with them. But if you're not, you should look them up. They're the ones who run this baseline moot court competition and they're also deeply engaged in the IC
[00:52:03.960]Elsbeth Magilton: They have a whole track of sessions. So pay attention to. Who's moderating those sessions, whose papers got accepted at those sessions.
[00:52:12.030]Elsbeth Magilton: What's going on there, right, because that's where a lot of space law conversations are happening and a really big important way. And what's awesome is that this year. You can do it all for free. You know, in your pajamas from home.
[00:52:23.220]Elsbeth Magilton: And get a lay of the land that way. So I think that's a really important conference that is absolutely worth your time.
[00:52:28.950]Elsbeth Magilton: I also think some of the best networking out there is the American bar associations Aaron space Sealy and event that they do usually every June in Washington, DC.
[00:52:38.580]Elsbeth Magilton: I believe this year it was virtual may or may not be virtual this year. We'll see. Um, but in a lot of that's aviation focus, which might be a dual interest for many of you,
[00:52:49.110]Elsbeth Magilton: But very often they do a space specific segment as well. And a lot of people are usually at that event and the ABA is great at making a lot of those events less expensive for students.
[00:52:59.940]Elsbeth Magilton: So I would encourage you to check out that event, of course, I'm going to rep Nebraska Spaceland conference this year online.
[00:53:08.100]Elsbeth Magilton: But in DC. It's also a good opportunity for networking and we are free to
[00:53:13.980]Elsbeth Magilton: Probably always free to law students and we are hoping to be back in DC next year after being all virtual this year and other really important one is another one put on by the International Institute of space lot. And that's the Galloway symposium.
[00:53:28.500]Elsbeth Magilton: And that is usually hosted every December at the cosmos club, whether or not that will be in person or virtual TO SEE RIGHT. I'M NOT 100% sure that's been decided.
[00:53:37.080]Elsbeth Magilton: And in some ways, it'd be wonderful virtual would probably make it much more accessible to a large group of people this year.
[00:53:43.320]Elsbeth Magilton: To sort of get to know that group, but to keep an eye on the ISS website and on their Twitter feed for when that comes up. They don't usually actually have a conference website for Galloway symposium. I remember when I was first breaking into the field. I thought it was very elusive.
[00:54:01.020]Elsbeth Magilton: How are you finding this
[00:54:03.870]Elsbeth Magilton: That they didn't tweet about it that's normally an event bright registration. So it's one of those ones you kind of have to pay attention to you, but it's usually the first week of December.
[00:54:12.690]Elsbeth Magilton: And Washington DC, called the Galloway Symposium, named after I mean Galloway who's a hallmark and pillar and space law.
[00:54:20.730]Elsbeth Magilton: And other two that I would recommend that I think are free to cheat for students that are not entirely space left focused. But I think have lots of quality content and generally have some space law content.
[00:54:33.720]Elsbeth Magilton: Incorporated is the international law weekend and it's hosted usually at Fordham Law by the American branch of the international association or a Beulah
[00:54:44.070]Elsbeth Magilton: They usually have at least one track or two tracks that are space law focused. But if it's baseball focused, you need to be international law focus. So there's going to be other topics that they're talking about
[00:54:54.750]Elsbeth Magilton: Added the appeal of international law weekend that are going to be relevant to your study area, even if they're not specifically on space, right. Like, if we're talking about drawing analogies.
[00:55:04.110]Elsbeth Magilton: To other bodies of law. This is a great way to learn about those other bodies of thoughts really where I got my introduction to
[00:55:11.760]Elsbeth Magilton: Antarctica and all of the agreements they are how I was able to think about how we discussed metaphors to space.
[00:55:18.300]Elsbeth Magilton: Because I didn't take any classes that dealt with the Arctic in Moscow. So, good good opportunity. The other one is the American Society of international law.
[00:55:27.360]Elsbeth Magilton: And I think there's a nominal fee for students to attend their annual conference, but I had been told that if you volunteer to, like, I think I help run microphones for like one or two sessions, then you get a free student membership to the American Society of international law.
[00:55:45.330]Elsbeth Magilton: And
[00:55:47.040]Elsbeth Magilton: You can attend all of the events and be a part of the annual meeting.
[00:55:50.550]Elsbeth Magilton: If you're about to graduate. Of course, those are still two organizations. I would encourage you to join. I know both of them have
[00:55:56.910]Elsbeth Magilton: New professional membership rate. So it's not the standard couple hundred bucks. I think it's a lot lower, if you're only five or 10 years into your career.
[00:56:04.710]Elsbeth Magilton: So check those out both of those both a Beulah international branch of the International Association and a social the American Society of international law.
[00:56:14.490]Elsbeth Magilton: We have so many acronyms in this field, so I'm going to try and say the full names as best I can have spacewalk committees and groups.
[00:56:22.500]Elsbeth Magilton: And you can pay attention to, who's sharing those and who are members to those. And again, it starts to give you the lay of the land.
[00:56:29.040]Elsbeth Magilton: Students are also very interested in the International Institute of space law membership which knew about five or six years ago, they do know now have a prospective Member and they require members to have a scholarly background.
[00:56:45.060]Elsbeth Magilton: And proven track history in space law. So you can't just pay your dues and join like you can have some associations you there's actually a process to making sure that you really are space law.
[00:56:57.210]Elsbeth Magilton: Or have some measure of space or expertise.
[00:57:00.660]Elsbeth Magilton: But they have prospective memberships now for students who are building that up and having that perspective membership is persuasive. When you go to apply for the full membership in the future.
[00:57:09.360]Elsbeth Magilton: So those are off the top of my head I had prep for that question. But I've taught my head. Those are the things that that I pay attention to every year and that I see the majority of my peers at every year.
[00:57:19.860]Elsbeth Magilton: So those are the first ones that I would think of that are particularly accessible to to new students or two new professionals. Excuse me.
[00:57:29.100]Elsbeth Magilton: Alright, we have four minutes. We actually managed to fill an hour.
[00:57:32.580]Elsbeth Magilton: I'm always happy to talk about any events, like I said, this video will be up with all of these
[00:57:38.100]Elsbeth Magilton: hints and tricks, hopefully some of this was useful. I know we got into some sort of mushy emotional confidence building things, but I do underscore that I think that those are actually
[00:57:47.940]Elsbeth Magilton: Important things to work on for the job field and will make you a better candidate, even if it doesn't seem like it's really hardcore substance advice in terms of your resume and cover letter.
[00:57:59.340]Elsbeth Magilton: So unless there is any more questions in the next five seconds. It takes me to finish the sentence.
[00:58:05.640]Elsbeth Magilton: All right, I think with that, we will call it and I hope you all have a good day are substantive session today.
[00:58:12.060]Elsbeth Magilton: Starts at noon central and it's on military analogies and space and some of the issues with those military analogies.
[00:58:19.560]Elsbeth Magilton: Followed by a great session with Brian Weeden on a counter space threats and the space world. So I encourage you to come and take a look at those if you didn't sign up and feel free to shoot me an email. We can get you those links and thanks for being here with us today.

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NE Space Law Week - (Student Session) Mentorship, Sponsorship, and Building a Professional Community

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