NE Space Law Week - (Student Session)Hunting for and Applying for Jobs: The Application Process and Strategies

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10/07/2020 Added

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Kiersten Haugen, Attorney at the Federal Aviation Administration, speaks with Nebraska Law's Elsbeth Magilton, and students about her journey to her current position at the FAA.

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[00:02:58.950]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Alright, it's two o'clock. So we'll go ahead and get started. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Elsbeth Magilton. I'm the executive director for technology security in space law initiatives at the University, University of Nebraska.
[00:03:10.320]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Part of that is that I'm the Executive Director for the space cyber and telecommunications Law Program. And that's the program that is sponsoring Nebraska virtual space law week so
[00:03:19.650]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: We are so excited to bring all this content to you. In addition to our main track sessions. We also wanted to do some student outreach sections really focused on building up your professional
[00:03:32.310]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Awareness of space law people in the field and some extra different kind of niche information that for folks who want to be in this field, it can feel really difficult to break it. And so we wanted to bring both some practical advice, along with some
[00:03:46.170]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Practical stories that could be of use to all of you. And so, as part of that we have Kiersten with us here today from the FAA
[00:03:57.000]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: We're going to start off quick, we have a nice video to kind of wrap up a lot of her story for all of you. I'm going to ask probably 20 minutes worth of questions and then
[00:04:08.130]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: We'll be able to turn it to all of you. I think what we're going to do is try and use the hand raise function and then you can turn on your camera.
[00:04:17.850]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Ones that you've raised your hand or we've called on you. And until then we would ask you to keep your camera and your microphone.
[00:04:24.270]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Turned off and we're excited to do this as a regular zoom meeting instead of a webinar because that means looking see you when you get to talk and have a lot more
[00:04:32.820]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Communication, but at the same time, sometimes can make it a little bit tricky to manage everybody so we appreciate your help with that, I'm going to go ahead and share my screen.
[00:04:48.000]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And start our video.
[00:04:51.960]Hey, I'm curious to how can I work at the FAA and the regulations department of their office general counsel.
[00:05:03.510]And I actually began my legal career with the Army Corps of Engineers, which is another federal agency that's part of the Department of Defense.
[00:05:11.670]I joined through the honors program, which I learned about when I was at the Pentagon doing that the internship that Nebraska offers for international affairs interested students over in DC.
[00:05:26.370]Over the Corps of Engineers environmental law and must substantial amount of administrative law as well, kind of hoping to break into space law at one point in my career.
[00:05:36.900]But like, yeah, I guess after three or so years of the court finally decided to try and start looking in earnest for something that was baseball interested, I'd done the info box competition, which I'm sure some of the students will be aware of.
[00:05:51.150]A couple of years during law school. And that was a really enlightening really cool experience. So I was hoping that I could kind of
[00:05:56.970]Edge my way there, and I started to use my administrative law experience my knowledge of just have federal agencies work and how we should rules.
[00:06:04.500]To leverage your career with the FAA. I ended up applying for a job. I guess like more than a year ago now. But, and yeah, I've been enjoying which off your ever since. It's really exciting.
[00:06:19.980]You going into my interview that this was the regulations division that we would be working on.
[00:06:26.640]You know, Federal rules that would eventually enter the Code of Federal Regulations so
[00:06:30.450]brushing up I think on my administrative law background and I was thankful that I took that course the law school if anyone's still position to take that I would highly recommend so
[00:06:38.610]Even if you don't want to work in government. It's just a good idea to understand that how how the regulatory process works, given its, its role in space law right now.
[00:06:47.670]So I approached them on some of my administrative law, but also I guess I would kind of advise anyone who's thinking of pivoting their career. This way that
[00:06:56.730]Is because of just the novelty of space lot is so nation is so quickly developing and it doesn't have just this long standing
[00:07:04.110]Body of case volatile rely on that every other industry would, at this point, don't be afraid to leverage the experience that you have that is applicable indirectly.
[00:07:13.560]So I would say heading into that interview I was ready to talk about experiences I had had working with the Code of Federal Regulations and Clean Water Act.
[00:07:22.710]environmental rules, understanding how to apply as similar as a different body of law with a similar framework, the Administrative Procedures Act was extremely helpful I think to explaining that
[00:07:34.680]Where I dont have space knowledge, whenever we don't space expertise. I certainly had knowledge of the legal structure and skills that would be applicable to that context. And I think that that helps persuade my current employers that that I'd be the right fit.
[00:07:56.310]Don't be afraid to try the extracurriculars that are not what the typical law student goes through
[00:08:03.330]You know I wouldn't have understood how I definitely wouldn't have known how much I would enjoy
[00:08:09.240]Space law if I hadn't need time to do the math for last competition, which is time consuming and when you're in law school. You have so many things on your plate already
[00:08:18.510]You've got all of your coursework and I'm sure many of you will have crusher to do
[00:08:22.470]Well review or moot court or something like that as well. I think many of you will be working. You've got a lot on your plate. And so trying to decide how best to divide your time and be judicious and the way that's beneficial for your career is not easy.
[00:08:35.010]But I would say that if you think you might have an interest in the area. It is absolutely worth the time to do something that everyone else does, and
[00:08:43.170]I think it's beneficial for two reasons. One, always explore the things that you might be passionate about, because you. That's how you avoid
[00:08:51.000]Establishing a career that you're not all that and boost about number one.
[00:08:54.900]And number two, if you end up taking this step in recruitment pivoting your career in this direction it these types of experiences are what will set you apart from other people.
[00:09:05.430]That you know you took time to take a leadership role with a you know a club does essentially is moving in this direction, or you
[00:09:13.560]took on a fellowship I so as an undergraduate. I had a chance to study abroad and my first year of law school. Actually, I worked for a law firm in Montevideo, Uruguay, which I think even to this day. And people were like, but why
[00:09:26.250]But so I don't know. I was interested in international contracts and figuring out how these agreements would work on a lateral stage, do the weird thing is, is my recommendation because
[00:09:37.380]Employers will notice it. And I don't know that too many people will ever shame you for taking a chance and being bold not respect.
[00:09:50.100]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I love that. And I feel like do the weird thing might be my favorite new career advice that I've ever heard.
[00:09:57.210]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.
[00:10:02.400]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So I want to kind of jump right into some questions that I think might be at least questions that I hear frequently from some of our students and from students who reach out to me.
[00:10:11.430]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: The first one of the things you mentioned in the video was the man for locks moot court competition.
[00:10:15.690]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And for folks who might not be familiar with that. That's a moot court competition that's run through the International Institute of space law.
[00:10:22.320]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And the North American rounds are held in Washington, DC. Every March, April last year, of course, remote this year may or may not be remote. We're also sort of waiting on that.
[00:10:33.210]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But we're going to have a really prominent competition and space last, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit tight about your time as a competitor, but then also later on as a judge.
[00:10:41.370]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, and so I actually signed up to do the the competition because it was going to be held in DC, and I was in DC at the time doing an internship. And I was like, well, I'd rather like have some sort of extracurricular stuff on my belt. If I can't be physically on the campus Lincoln.
[00:10:59.070]Kiersten Haugen: I love the concept. And I think that if anybody gets a chance to participate, which I also strongly encourage that you check out
[00:11:06.900]Kiersten Haugen: It's it's a moot court competition where the space Slack community is already pretty small, but you just you kind of get to rub elbows with some pretty neat. People who are working very real issues in the space context.
[00:11:18.480]Kiersten Haugen: As all new chords, you know, these are all they're made up countries because I don't want to get too political but
[00:11:23.760]Kiersten Haugen: It's a completely made up scenario but it's always very real problems and things that are occurring right now.
[00:11:30.210]Kiersten Haugen: Space situational awareness collision of satellites managing debris very practical issues that
[00:11:36.510]Kiersten Haugen: Countries right now are working to address. And it's kind of, it's a neat way to get students thinking and
[00:11:41.910]Kiersten Haugen: It's a tough challenge. It's a really tough competition, but so worth the time I loved it. So, so much so that I went back and did it, my third year of loss.
[00:11:50.910]Kiersten Haugen: And I think I like recruited a couple of friends. Okay.
[00:11:54.960]Kiersten Haugen: How can I sell you on a trip to DC and maybe doing this, like, really interesting area of law. They did not get into space law quite the event that I did, but
[00:12:02.730]Kiersten Haugen: This is a huge promising showing students who would be potentially interested, you should check it out. You should go.
[00:12:08.340]Kiersten Haugen: All of your judges have really insane careers and assuming that you do get to meet in person, there will be banquet where you'll get to talk to people like the General Counsel of NASA
[00:12:18.510]Kiersten Haugen: Head of Space Force, you'll get you'll get some of these really neat folks on and
[00:12:23.760]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, actually the reason I found out about the posting that for the job that I currently have was actually through a friend through blocks community so
[00:12:31.080]Kiersten Haugen: I've come back as a judge in subsequent years, I judge finals. This past year, which was only brought to you by Kobe. Ordinarily, you would have NASA's general counsel or somebody much more esteemed in that position.
[00:12:43.710]Kiersten Haugen: But it was remote and I was available. Um, but I've come back. It's just a lot of fun.
[00:12:50.070]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, should check it out.
[00:12:51.810]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Do you think you saw yourself short in terms of being an impressive finals judge
[00:12:55.980]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: It was a perfect time to check it out to. If so, if you are at a school that hasn't had a team before it's not established. If you go to the International Institute of space laws website which is I sell dot maybe org or net
[00:13:11.220]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: You can Google them and find that information and get your school started involved in that competition. I think it's a really important way to engage in the space community.
[00:13:19.710]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And thinking about being engaged in the space community as we learned in the video. You didn't start your career in a space law job you started with the Army Corps. What did you do while you were in that position to stay engaged with the space community.
[00:13:32.670]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah. Race. Like I said, I was with the Army Corps of Engineers doing environmental law administrative law.
[00:13:38.460]Kiersten Haugen: I so I stayed involved by continuing to volunteer for that competition. And if any of you guys compete.
[00:13:44.520]Kiersten Haugen: You'll absolutely have an opportunity after you graduate. If you want to go back and volunteer and assist with the competition. They are always need volunteers because thankfully
[00:13:52.680]Kiersten Haugen: As the Space. Space Operations continue to grow the interest from students like yourselves, Who are interested in space lot continues to grow and the competition continues to get larger.
[00:14:01.320]Kiersten Haugen: I stayed involved by volunteering every year I would read. There's a written component. So I would read memorials and help judge those and then in DC to show up in judge oral competitions, up until like the final round.
[00:14:13.680]Kiersten Haugen: So I primarily did that but I also kind of stayed in touch with like all of my colleagues from Nebraska and other friends that I've made through locks competition.
[00:14:22.920]Kiersten Haugen: To kind of just keep a pulse on activities that are going on and I started attending symposiums that I about a year ago and I know, two years ago when I started to try and pivot my career more seriously.
[00:14:34.320]Kiersten Haugen: I tried to look for more opportunities to go listen to speaking events in the city that I was living at the time.
[00:14:40.800]Kiersten Haugen: Started. I went to the ABA Air and Space law Symposium, which you if you're a law student that's like free to cheap. If any of you is interested in going
[00:14:48.690]Kiersten Haugen: I attended events like this, try and just get a sense of what different careers would be out there. What would I need to do to reading myself for that type of position. And when I made good contacts good friends.
[00:15:00.540]Kiersten Haugen: And other agencies and other working for space companies I didn't let them go.
[00:15:05.880]Kiersten Haugen: I think that's really the moral of the story, because the space community is so small you will run into each other again most of your speaking panel for most of this week I've at least heard of, if not met, and had dinner with something like that. It's a small group.
[00:15:20.700]Kiersten Haugen: It's raining.
[00:15:23.100]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: That's absolutely true. We see a lot of repeat people, which is why building that community in that network is so important and
[00:15:30.030]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Always raising others up right because there is a really small community, but it's also usually a really kind helpful compassionate community of people who want to see other succeed.
[00:15:40.560]Kiersten Haugen: Which is really an yeah and honestly that's probably not even surprised and giving the type of law. You know, like all of us who are interested in outer space realized that it's just
[00:15:48.990]Kiersten Haugen: It's this unique realm where all of us has an interest in making sure we don't mess it up for the greater good.
[00:15:54.300]Kiersten Haugen: As long as we can keep safe space, sustainable and useful and make productive use for our planet. I think that's, that is the general tone of the attorneys that go into this field.
[00:16:04.650]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: We're all about cooperation international cooperation, however, that might look
[00:16:09.510]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So how did the Army Corps experience prepare you for what you do now, even though, where he wasn't about space law.
[00:16:15.270]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, I mean, so really whatever job, you end up landing out of the gate from law school, and it may not be a space field.
[00:16:24.000]Kiersten Haugen: Certainly don't be discouraged if that's not the case any illegal experience that you might get right out the gate, especially if you end up working for a government agency.
[00:16:31.710]Kiersten Haugen: Can be used to leverage your career in the space field Mark particularly so at the Army Corps.
[00:16:37.950]Kiersten Haugen: Kind of like said this in the video, but getting some familiarity with, like, what is the rulemaking process from a federal agency standpoint.
[00:16:44.220]Kiersten Haugen: And some of your friends and your family who are not in law school, my
[00:16:47.940]Kiersten Haugen: Question very fairly like what is the role of an executive agency and making laws, when you're not Congress
[00:16:53.910]Kiersten Haugen: And understanding how that process works. What is the significance of engaging the public with the rulemaking process to make sure that the regulatory concepts that come out are representative of
[00:17:08.130]Kiersten Haugen: Both like public comments that are received, and it's going to be
[00:17:12.240]Kiersten Haugen: Legally sufficient for the agency understanding processes like that understanding how to work with your client, even if you jump into a private law firm learning how to partner with your clients to achieve evidence. So trying to achieve is extremely important.
[00:17:28.080]Kiersten Haugen: I would just say, like, like I said in the video, wherever you end up landing. You can always leverage attorney skills.
[00:17:35.460]Kiersten Haugen: To be useful, and another similar legal job if you land up if you end up just doing simple family law right out the gate that to can also be useful. Learn how to be transactional learn how to do some client service then contracts all useful.
[00:17:50.430]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Have on that thinking about foundational legal experience if you look back at law school. I know you'd mentioned administrative law.
[00:17:57.810]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But what classes. Did you take the best prepared you for what you do now an addition to administrative law, and is there any classes that you wish you had taken that you didn't that you feel like come up all the time now.
[00:18:10.470]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, that's so that's a good question. I, I feel like my particular
[00:18:15.630]Kiersten Haugen: Curriculum was quite across the board. I ended up doing it a space cyber national security concentration. When I graduated, so
[00:18:22.680]Kiersten Haugen: A lot of like the space law and the National Security concepts that I was able to tap on they were part of my law school curriculum, which was really, really helpful I think honestly it was
[00:18:31.440]Kiersten Haugen: Maybe like helpful is not the right word. So I didn't end up going to national security, but they were good for my soul, and they teach my interest and i i had a strong understanding. I think just
[00:18:40.800]Kiersten Haugen: Government structure and moving into it, but from a practical sense. And I think for anyone just generally interested in space lot
[00:18:46.740]Kiersten Haugen: Um, if you have any introductory space or international courses that are available to you. That's quite useful and foundational, I would say.
[00:18:54.390]Kiersten Haugen: Administrative Law. Yeah, it goes without saying. Understanding that process might even get a taste of it with constitutional law.
[00:19:01.020]Kiersten Haugen: I don't want to sell that short either. Um, but it's not necessarily a class, but if you have opportunities beyond your first year to do more legal research and writing
[00:19:10.500]Kiersten Haugen: I think that I don't know that there's an attorney out there who wouldn't say that that's something that they wish they would have spent more time on in law school when you have some parameters and some bumpers.
[00:19:18.600]Kiersten Haugen: To kind of help guide you in the right direction if you even if it's not like if you want to do Law Review. Excellent. I did that as well.
[00:19:28.080]Kiersten Haugen: plenty of opportunities there to like do research. But even if you don't go that route work with a professor. See if you can
[00:19:34.170]Kiersten Haugen: Work co author and article or perform some research and that way.
[00:19:38.070]Kiersten Haugen: That's something that I think like at the end of the day when you're a practitioner in your seat and you're trying to figure out how to quickly get answers that are credible for your client.
[00:19:45.720]Kiersten Haugen: Being able to go find those answers swiftly and to be able to communicate it and effective way was always the most valuable skill out there.
[00:19:54.090]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Of that research right research right research right some more.
[00:19:57.120]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah I know him.
[00:19:59.250]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Yes.
[00:20:00.060]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Can I do better. What you're researching or writing about
[00:20:03.780]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: For my own aside, you know the the last research paper that I did in law school.
[00:20:08.040]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Was about confined feeding operations and the regulation and basically feedlots which sounds not at all related to space law, but a lot of the regulatory research I did there applies now to stuff I write today.
[00:20:18.810]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And thinking about that structure. So, it is true, any sort of research and writing it out there, particularly about regulation, I think is incredibly useful.
[00:20:28.290]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: It's true. So
[00:20:29.610]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Kind of, as we've covered your first position was not space law related do you a think that's normal. For most new professionals interested and into that discourage you at the time.
[00:20:41.220]Kiersten Haugen: Um, so, you know, it's funny. I think that the answer like now actually would be a little bit different because I think commercial and military space operations have just doubled.
[00:20:53.220]Kiersten Haugen: Obviously, it's a very like perfect time to get involved the job prospects specifically for baseball. I think like might be a little higher than they were when I left in 2016
[00:21:02.730]Kiersten Haugen: I it is completely normal to not land in a space law career right out the gate.
[00:21:07.680]Kiersten Haugen: And I think I even knew that though by like 12 three a year that I was applying to like government agencies through honors attorney programs.
[00:21:16.350]Kiersten Haugen: Wholesale I was applying to all sorts of nonprofits that I barely understood I was applying out the wazoo finding trying to trying to find something that would be helpful.
[00:21:25.710]Kiersten Haugen: If I didn't get to land in a specific even government opportunity I registered, but that could be very realistic.
[00:21:33.450]Kiersten Haugen: So obviously election cycles and fiscal years will matter to the availability of jobs. You just never know. There are many, many factors that are outside of your control. And that's the cold hard truth.
[00:21:43.440]Kiersten Haugen: So I prepare yourself that you may not get the job that you're specifically having your eye on. And your first job is never your last job, never. But guess. So I would say to not be discouraged if that is the case.
[00:21:55.440]Kiersten Haugen: If you are using the skills that you learned in law school to become a better attorney. It's worth your while whatever it is that you're doing, um, the second part of your question was what is it normal and what
[00:22:08.400]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Why I think you kind of covered it said, did that discourage you.
[00:22:12.000]Kiersten Haugen: Know,
[00:22:15.330]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Be positive right
[00:22:17.040]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: On the prize very
[00:22:18.930]Kiersten Haugen: Well, and honestly, I
[00:22:21.540]Kiersten Haugen: WAS EXCITED TO TAKE THE JOB WITH THE ARMY Corps, too, because I working on environmental regulation was also really, really fascinating and feel to do so in Boston was a good time.
[00:22:31.980]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So actually just saw a question come in and that I will go back to my list of questions but hence we were kind of talking about law school, just a moment ago, it seems like this fits in really well.
[00:22:42.900]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So of course in Nebraska. We have a lot of on topic classes for space or cyber interested students
[00:22:53.190]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And some different options but at other schools, of course they don't necessarily have that same curriculum.
[00:22:58.440]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So if you're thinking about whether or not an IP class might be worthwhile or other classes that are maybe kind of more standardized and available at more law schools. Do you have any suggestions for those types of courses.
[00:23:10.020]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, I mean, if you are able to
[00:23:13.920]Kiersten Haugen: So might depend on like how comprehensive your constitutional law education is
[00:23:19.050]Kiersten Haugen: If you have any like state and local government, anything that might help you like understand the breakdown of
[00:23:24.630]Kiersten Haugen: What is the regulatory framework and I keep throwing that word around a lot because specifically in the US, the way that space slot primarily takes form right now is through federal regulation, which is still, it still comes from a very broadly string statute. But if you are able to
[00:23:41.430]Kiersten Haugen: bolster your experience with working with government agencies.
[00:23:45.480]Kiersten Haugen: Legislation statutory interpretation, all of that still helpful to you. And if you're thinking like, well, my law school doesn't have a whole lot of specialized
[00:23:54.210]Kiersten Haugen: Like coursework, aside from like the more general con la based, something like that, that no worries. See if you can do something that would get you more experienced like an internship an extra in ship whatever they call them.
[00:24:06.420]Kiersten Haugen: Where you are to try and partner up in an area that would be more specific to what you what you might like to do in the future.
[00:24:16.320]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: No, absolutely. Um, so you send your introduction that after a few years, you knew you wanted to turn back into space law.
[00:24:23.700]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And so how did you approach that job hunt because
[00:24:26.850]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Knowing that you're ready to kind of make that turn and prepare for it can be a little bit overwhelming, especially if you have been not working in the field for a little while. So what steps did you take to kind of approach that job hunt and to find jobs.
[00:24:39.780]Kiersten Haugen: Sure. Okay. Good question. Um, so I guess as far as like finding the job itself. Keep an eye out. If you're looking
[00:24:48.600]Kiersten Haugen: I hate this is just still true even nowadays. But if you want to go into government USA Jobs is like basically the only way to really get there if you have an interest in working for an agency.
[00:24:57.990]Kiersten Haugen: And there are ways to like set Job Alerts on USA Jobs. So if you're wanting to target a specific like geographic region or this particular agency.
[00:25:06.600]Kiersten Haugen: Keep in mind that even if you're trying to do a lateral you could try it. And let's say that you know if you want. If you are like me and you wind up doing environmental law, but you would really like to pivot to another agency and
[00:25:18.480]Kiersten Haugen: I think that like other federal agencies will look favorably on that.
[00:25:21.930]Kiersten Haugen: Not that other government experience and also keep in mind that if you work five, I was also applying, if I remember correctly, live, I think a couple of contract positions with NASA
[00:25:32.520]Kiersten Haugen: Even though I'm like, it's not the international section that I would really like to be in, but I'm willing to take it in hope that something else becomes available.
[00:25:40.230]Kiersten Haugen: But as far as like approaching the job search itself i. So, I am a big fan of try and like leverage the friends that I have in the fields.
[00:25:48.510]Kiersten Haugen: Don't be afraid to reach out to colleagues. They like the former professors of yours. If you are considering applying asked if they would look over your cover letter.
[00:25:57.870]Kiersten Haugen: Are these the right terms that I should be throwing out there. Am I making the right arguments.
[00:26:03.000]Kiersten Haugen: And also just to do your research as well. If you're especially if you're looking at a space company. What, what are their operations looking like right now. What do you see
[00:26:11.250]Kiersten Haugen: what looked like potential needs that you could fill as an attorney to make sure that you are
[00:26:16.380]Kiersten Haugen: Kind of using the right words, especially in a cover letter, those, those would be like my general tips and as far as just like putting your name out there, I would say, have no fear. If it doesn't seem like you are not if it seems to you like he might not be qualified for the job itself.
[00:26:34.290]Kiersten Haugen: Space one in particular because I would never just count that.
[00:26:39.150]Kiersten Haugen: Other folks may not have as much experience as you think they will spaces such a new and developing field but
[00:26:45.870]Kiersten Haugen: Honestly, if you've got some experience and you're showing an interest in it. You might be more qualified than you think you are. So apply even if you don't think you're there never know what an employer is actually looking for
[00:26:58.140]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: When you're looking for jobs to apply for. Do you have any tips on the best places to look for positions.
[00:27:04.200]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: New we mentioned USA Jobs, which of course is a behemoth when there's
[00:27:07.710]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Like actual Career Service guides out there written on USA Jobs.
[00:27:13.440]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But outside of USA Jobs or other other places three identified positions that maybe were outside government
[00:27:18.990]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah. So it sounds like kind of a stretch anymore. But I guess maybe this is 2020 but I have two different friends who have
[00:27:25.920]Kiersten Haugen: Granted, they're not in the legal field but two different friends who work for space companies now who learned about the postings THROUGH INSTAGRAM.
[00:27:32.310]Kiersten Haugen: Companies are more and more willing to reach out to the public, very directly through sites.
[00:27:37.800]Kiersten Haugen: I think like relativity space actually recently posted a couple of like we're hiring things i. So, I think maybe like one nifty approach, which is be to kind of like take stock of what's out there as far as companies that
[00:27:50.310]Kiersten Haugen: Are currently active or like looking to get licenses from the FAA to do commercial space operations.
[00:27:56.760]Kiersten Haugen: Take a peek at their social sites in addition to their direct websites themselves. So you might have some postings available if you know anyone who especially if they're
[00:28:07.440]Kiersten Haugen: If even if they don't work for that particular company, talk to your friends talk to talk to your fellows in the fields, who
[00:28:13.830]Kiersten Haugen: May have a little bit more information that's my kind of general advice, um, because I specifically was targeting government, but it's at least worked for two people I know GOING THROUGH INSTAGRAM. Go figure. I'm thinking like DM anyone but
[00:28:30.660]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Found the post that way I you know I see quite a few jobs go by on Twitter as well.
[00:28:34.920]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And one of the piece of advice I give a lot of our students is to find somebody whose career, you want to emulate see who they follow and follow those people on social media.
[00:28:43.260]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And you'll get the lay of the land in terms of what conferences, they're going to what companies they're hiring. And if you start following there's you'll see those same kind of job announcements.
[00:28:52.080]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Another one that this is going to sound snarky when I say it but LinkedIn. I'm always startled by how many recruiters I meet
[00:28:58.800]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Who really are dedicated to LinkedIn profile. So even if you're not doing a ton of communications on there in terms of searching for jobs or applying through LinkedIn having a polished LinkedIn account or I don't know if you agree, I think, is
[00:29:13.560]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Important and I've heard quite a few recruiter say that when I've been out talking about
[00:29:17.460]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Alumni and and looking at job positions for students.
[00:29:20.640]Kiersten Haugen: Definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:29:23.280]Kiersten Haugen: I think I did not appreciate how heavily LinkedIn us in the space field until recently.
[00:29:30.690]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: It's, it's also very true. Once you're in the setting, you know, if you're going to be at a conference or an event. They are after pulling your picture and your bio from LinkedIn. So having stuff updated there.
[00:29:40.080]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Can be really important. And I think it's important, even as a student.
[00:29:44.490]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: looking past sort of the job placement looking more at the geographical region.
[00:29:49.620]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And the goal place for a lot of professionals excited about space, whether they want to be working in government or commercial is DC right there's that's a hub of activity.
[00:29:58.500]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Most of the commercial space operators have policy offices in DC working on that. So that's, that's an area that a lot of at least our students. And I think a lot of students across the country want to end up at
[00:30:09.270]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And it's its own world. Right. So what's it like breaking into the job market in DC and settling into kind of the DC lifestyle, like you mentioned earlier between election cycle and budgets, it's a it's an interesting place to live with for
[00:30:25.200]Kiersten Haugen: Sure, sure. So I'm I'm originally from Nebraska and I think that, at least for, like, my friends, my family who come to this out here like the lifestyle as far as how much
[00:30:35.760]Kiersten Haugen: Many of your colleagues are willing to spend working outside of the ordinary nine to five with something that like my family will always be a little bit surprised that
[00:30:43.560]Kiersten Haugen: I it certainly is a temperature change but I it's if this is something that calls to you if you appreciate this type of challenge. I honestly, find out one of the most rewarding workplaces.
[00:30:56.160]Kiersten Haugen: In all of the United States. I think a minute. Yeah, and probably in all of the United States. It's definitely fast paced, but I want. I think for me, like, one of the things that drew me to the city initially is
[00:31:07.500]Kiersten Haugen: The like vigor, and the passion that people have for their work. It's far less common here, I think, to come across somebody who's just met about their job in DC.
[00:31:17.580]Kiersten Haugen: Who doesn't care that much because honestly, if you want to work for government agency if you want to work for a think tank going to work on the hill. You're here because you wanted to control policy, whatever it is.
[00:31:29.130]Kiersten Haugen: At the highest possible national level, so it is it's fast paced. We work hard.
[00:31:34.650]Kiersten Haugen: But I think it's so rewarding and I am always really really inspired to see the passion that like my friends who do completely different things in the city have for what it is that they do.
[00:31:45.420]Kiersten Haugen: Whether that's like education policy or environmental wetlands protection here in the DMV and
[00:31:53.880]Kiersten Haugen: It's so but OK. Back to the question, breaking into the job market, though it can be very, very competitive.
[00:31:59.730]Kiersten Haugen: There is a joke around here that just like, you know, throw a rock, he will probably hit an attorney or two.
[00:32:04.560]Kiersten Haugen: There are many, like the legal field is it's busy out here it is competitive. So what that means for you guys is but it is well worth your time to try and make sure that
[00:32:13.410]Kiersten Haugen: If you are targeting this area that your resume has some things that will stand out and that doesn't have to be just like the the classic law school route of move courts Law Review
[00:32:25.230]Kiersten Haugen: Can think of like other like off the off the cuff things that you're very, very standard if you can make your resume stand out because you've sought out specific experiences.
[00:32:33.120]Kiersten Haugen: You know, took on additional work as somebody research assistant or an intern next turn all the better for you to stand out so just competitive, but, um, but it's very doable. Clearly I've nowhere near the first from Nebraska jump here.
[00:32:48.480]Kiersten Haugen: And yeah, it's rewarding. I hope you. I hope you go to shop.
[00:32:54.570]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Awesome. Thank you. Well,
[00:32:55.860]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I think at this point, I'd love to turn it over to
[00:32:59.430]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: audience questions and you can either send those over in the chat box and I, we can she can read them and we can. I can relay them to the group or feel free to use the raise your hand function and we can have you turn on your camera.
[00:33:15.990]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Not everybody all at once. I can also keep asking questions to
[00:33:21.810]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I know it's like it's not it's awkward and in person session it's deeply awkward online. I get back.
[00:33:29.310]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So we will hold tight and it, but that was an appropriate time to hit the little raise hand or to throw something in the group chat so we can see that, so definitely feel welcome to do that.
[00:33:41.220]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Personally to talk a little bit more about what your day to day work life looks like at the FA, you know what, what, what do you do when you show up in the morning. What is the real day to day life of a space lawyer.
[00:33:52.260]Kiersten Haugen: Sure. So I mean, right now I share my apartment and actually should have tack that on the end of, like, how is your integration of DC going I am like all of you, I am confined
[00:34:01.890]Kiersten Haugen: So we, I have not set foot in my office since like the beginning of May, and I still wonder if like maybe my sub taken over the snacks that were in my cupboard will see in like maybe 2021 who knows, um, I
[00:34:15.330]Kiersten Haugen: That we always hear the question was, we're not talking about DC that we're talking about Romney over time.
[00:34:19.830]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I got your day to day life.
[00:34:22.500]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, so since I so I was basically hired to help support the end of a huge role making up the FAA, which some of you are probably aware of and you've heard about during space week at this point for at least a couple of your panelists.
[00:34:34.260]Kiersten Haugen: And so I was hired to work on those streamlining launch and reentry.
[00:34:38.370]Kiersten Haugen: Regulations, what, what will become the forthcoming part for 50 of the Code of Federal Regulations, it is what you need to do in order to get a launcher reentry license in the United States, or if you are a US citizen, a new launch or re enter a space object anywhere in the world.
[00:34:53.760]Kiersten Haugen: That has been an extremely taxing but also extremely rewarding project. So ordinarily what we do with regulations department is
[00:35:03.090]Kiersten Haugen: We will work with our clients who are rocket scientists who are engineers who are subject
[00:35:08.310]Kiersten Haugen: Matter Experts and anything from lightning hazard mitigation to ground hazard control and toxic concentration, something like that to create regulations or amend existing regulations in a way that is
[00:35:21.450]Kiersten Haugen: beneficial to both the FAA and protecting public safety. That's our statutory mandate protecting public health, safety and safety of property.
[00:35:29.910]Kiersten Haugen: But also, you know, working these regulations in a way that will not hinder industry performance and will allow us as a as a country to move
[00:35:38.970]Kiersten Haugen: To a space operations in a positive direction. Um, it's a lot of reading it as a lot of tinkering with language and trying to make sure that you have precisely the right term that will
[00:35:48.810]Kiersten Haugen: Be understood well by industry, but will also not create any conflict with existing regulations.
[00:35:54.390]Kiersten Haugen: It's it's nitpicky it's definitely very high attention to detail required
[00:35:58.740]Kiersten Haugen: But so fascinating and I kind of mentioned this before but
[00:36:02.610]Kiersten Haugen: Just the entire rulemaking process to me, even from law school, kind of just fascinated me because we're not a legislative body. No, none of my co workers as an elected official
[00:36:11.430]Kiersten Haugen: Yet you know the language that we are working to craft very carefully will have the effect of law. So making sure that that's done very carefully and with significant public input is so crucial and really, really exciting.
[00:36:25.470]Kiersten Haugen: So that's, that's a huge chunk of what I do. And then once those rules. Rules are in place. We'll get off the bat questions either from regulated parties or from our inspectors in the field who are trying to get a feel for how we should interpret
[00:36:36.660]Kiersten Haugen: The regulations that are on the books we will get question will get requests for exemptions from certain regulations requirements and we will grant those if they meet a certain standard
[00:36:47.100]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, those are as the general life as done from the apartment now.
[00:36:53.340]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Excellent. We have a question in the college from Amanda, which is what does it like to go from environmental to space. And do you still take time to do environmental studies, and do you ever speak as an environmentalist or on environmental law in DC.
[00:37:07.860]Kiersten Haugen: Okay, yeah. So, so the transition to me was, was relatively fluid, because although
[00:37:15.360]Kiersten Haugen: We like I very much enjoyed my practice and over in Boston case was just a subject matter interest me that I was very keen to pivot towards
[00:37:25.590]Kiersten Haugen: Now, honestly, I think the two fields are more related. And you've probably even heard this either. Maybe in any classes where
[00:37:31.530]Kiersten Haugen: I felt this comes up often enough that you like environmental conservation and preservation has a lot of like connection with the way that we want to preserve Outer Space resources and making sure that
[00:37:40.770]Kiersten Haugen: As we make productive use of outer space. We're not actually depleting our ability to access it in the future, things like medicating States face to brain.
[00:37:50.040]Kiersten Haugen: So it, it definitely it's not. It wasn't a foreign jump to me. I don't. So I don't continue to practice that at the FAA. We actually have a whole other legal department that does do environmental
[00:38:02.460]Kiersten Haugen: I think the most I have done in the last year was that like, there will be a portion of this rule that deals with like there's an environmental review process for getting your launch license. And I was like,
[00:38:10.680]Kiersten Haugen: Quickly raising my hand like I will have to do the least amount of preparatory work to help with this regulation. Sign me up. Um,
[00:38:18.810]Kiersten Haugen: So yeah, a little bit less. So right now, but I don't. I haven't done any speaking things. I haven't been in a public room and really a while this point but I would be open to it. It's never, never narrow your practice areas, always, always better to know more things and fewer linen.
[00:38:35.850]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Love it. Alright, we have another one here in the zoom chat looking into the future short term one to five years, what new jobs for space lawyers do you anticipate being created with the increased commercial and public activities in space.
[00:38:50.610]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, so, really good question. Um,
[00:38:54.330]Kiersten Haugen: So, okay. So I'll start with, like, what's what's closest to home. I think that there will be a continued need as commercial operations in particular, continue to wrap up there will be a continued need for attorneys.
[00:39:04.770]Kiersten Haugen: In the government field, whether you are at the FAA where we do the launch and reentry licenses, whether you are at
[00:39:13.170]Kiersten Haugen: NASA working with with contracts to sponsor missions any environmental law or sorry, international law there, even if you are with the SEC or Commerce Department's I know that
[00:39:25.140]Kiersten Haugen: Sure, I don't, I don't want to like
[00:39:27.180]Kiersten Haugen: Anything that many of you might already know very well, but there is kind of a regulatory battle afoot to try and figure out how we as a country want best want to organize regulatory responsibilities.
[00:39:37.860]Kiersten Haugen: Into the future to accommodate different uses of outer space, different types of commercial operations and
[00:39:44.280]Kiersten Haugen: I would say all of our government agencies in the future will be looking for attorneys who can help us move in a positive direction and one that reduces confusion, rather than adds to it.
[00:39:56.370]Kiersten Haugen: So, at least in the private fields. There are so many space companies that are cropping up and I've been amazed that they seem not to have been affected by coven the launch cadence has not been affected. Go figure.
[00:40:09.030]Kiersten Haugen: I don't know how many kinds of how many companies are willing to hire full time staff attorneys right now, but I do know friends who've worked as consultants. I do have some friends who are in house counsel for a couple of small space firms.
[00:40:20.880]Kiersten Haugen: Space companies, they definitely exist and I to me the natural progression of more more business center space is going to be
[00:40:28.260]Kiersten Haugen: More attorneys needed to work on the transactional aspect, but even if you're not tied to a specific company. There are law firms, especially in the DC area that are more and more actively involved.
[00:40:37.890]Kiersten Haugen: In trying to get launch service agreements together in place for clients and trying to work with insurance because space is crazy expensive.
[00:40:47.250]Kiersten Haugen: Because a lot of damage can happen if there are many, many opportunities.
[00:40:53.940]Kiersten Haugen: But I really want to say there will be no shortage of ways, so long as we continue to keep exploring space and looking for new ways to increase access to space there will be attorneys right behind it to calculate the risk and save people money.
[00:41:07.530]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: You know, it's funny. I think 678 years ago. It felt like if you wanted to be a space lawyer.
[00:41:14.730]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: You were really looking at government or private sector as an in house position and now I'm really seeing a rise in law firms and consulting firms.
[00:41:23.700]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: That are making this either. There's new businesses and this is entirely what they're doing. There's a couple of those law firms out there to this is the space is all they do.
[00:41:31.470]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But then also really established law firms that are now opening space practice areas, our space and cyber security practice areas. And so that's definitely growing
[00:41:40.530]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Private sector, for which I think is great for attorneys who kind of still want that traditional firm attorney life but are excited about space. It's kind of a new and growing area.
[00:41:49.620]Kiersten Haugen: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:41:51.210]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: We have a question from Jeff, do you see more of a DC jobs going remote going forward and has the federal government handle the transition from an office to your moment and perhaps back again. And how's that been handled.
[00:42:03.660]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, so, so my agency. And I think this is pretty true I have so many friends in the DC area. I should have said this where I have so many friends in the DC area who work in government. If you come here that's very, very common.
[00:42:14.790]Kiersten Haugen: everybody's job with is probably, probably some tangential link to national security national welfare, um, I would say all of our agencies have sent us home probably starting around like march 9 or so and have not sent us back unless you are like
[00:42:31.350]Kiersten Haugen: I have a couple of friends at the Pentagon who have had to go into work specifically on classified material, but then the rest of the time we're doing their own class stuff at home.
[00:42:38.580]Kiersten Haugen: I think that the the transition for the agency has been prudence and we also keep in mind that just the nature of DC is one where
[00:42:46.290]Kiersten Haugen: Most of us are not driving and parking a vehicle. We're not staying and like these incubated kind of safer enclosed areas we all take the train, we all
[00:42:54.930]Kiersten Haugen: There's many of us. It's a crowded. So there's been no push really to to go back to our office and any of the federal agencies for a little while.
[00:43:04.290]Kiersten Haugen: I'm okay with that. But I'm also don't have small children, so I feel for all these families that are like now I have to be a teacher, as well. I it's it's a hard time for everyone, but, um, for the future, though, as far as are these going to continue to go remote. To me it seems like that.
[00:43:22.530]Kiersten Haugen: I think it seems like so many companies, and I don't think the government is exempt from this have realized that we are just capable of doing so much more remotely than we previously thought that we could
[00:43:34.050]Kiersten Haugen: And again, I think that this will be a little bit taper by, like, what about your employees who have families, though, and it's not fair to expect your attorneys to also have to be a
[00:43:43.470]Kiersten Haugen: Fifth grade teacher and a second grade teacher holder while they're trying to perform their work is, I don't know. I think that it's likely that the government will probably follow suit with continuing to allow at least part time telework
[00:43:59.220]Kiersten Haugen: But it's, it's a, I think your guests would also be probably as good as mine.
[00:44:05.370]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Alright, so we don't have another question come up. So I'm going to go back to my list. And I want to kind of pivot back to Job advice and job tips and I want to specifically talk about resumes and cover letters and
[00:44:18.270]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: You know, the common advice, whether or not you think that's good or bad, whether that's, you know, resume should never be longer than a page or you need to use these five words and your cover letter, um, any thoughts and advice that you have for students who are starting to kind of
[00:44:33.750]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: start drafting those materials for the first time and using they're making their, their boilerplate cover letter. There's my tip if you don't have a boilerplate cover letter get one ready so you can quickly produced
[00:44:42.720]Kiersten Haugen: One. If anyone
[00:44:44.400]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But tips for those documents and kind of the best that you've seen and what worked for you.
[00:44:50.010]Kiersten Haugen: Sure. Um okay one just quick note if you end up doing USA Jobs applications. The, the formatting.
[00:44:57.810]Kiersten Haugen: Rules for your resume, you might as well go out the window because most of them will have you enter in information like copy paste on were really ugly data format.
[00:45:05.760]Kiersten Haugen: And it won't have the you can like you can upload a PDF of your cover letter, but for the resume aspect, just be aware that some of this.
[00:45:13.260]Kiersten Haugen: This actually might be true of companies to depends on where you are, you may, you may not have to. You may not have the opportunity to upload a resume.
[00:45:20.040]Kiersten Haugen: Cover Letter aside, though. Um, I mentioned this before I still think it's very, very useful if you are pivoting your career, especially if you didn't begin with a space career.
[00:45:32.220]Kiersten Haugen: Be like willing to accept criticism from friends and colleagues who are in the fields.
[00:45:39.120]Kiersten Haugen: Who will let you know if you know make sure that you're using the right terminology that especially if you're trying to target.
[00:45:45.180]Kiersten Haugen: A company or even a government agency that has a big project under its belt. Make sure you're using the right terms the right buzzwords
[00:45:52.050]Kiersten Haugen: And that you are selling yourself in the best possible way. So I guess like my general advice. I, I tend to keep any cover letter. I've ever sent to one page. But I'm also rather brief on paper.
[00:46:04.830]Kiersten Haugen: And I've, I don't know that there's a single application I sent for space or government career that I didn't have another set of eyes by somebody who is more closely involved in the field and I was
[00:46:18.180]Kiersten Haugen: To check the what I was saying would make sense and would speak to somebody else in the field in a persuasive manner.
[00:46:26.490]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, I'm trying to think like any any more specific advice than that.
[00:46:35.160]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I have students asked me this is a really Frank question. Do you think on USA Jobs. The cover letters get read
[00:46:42.180]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I've got, I get that question all the time.
[00:46:45.510]Kiersten Haugen: So I know that in my office. They definitely do because things were brought up in my interview that I would have considered like the much further down into resume items.
[00:46:56.760]Kiersten Haugen: I, I know that I know that my office says, I don't, I don't know about everybody else. I hope that that's the case that I
[00:47:06.690]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Well, first, it's reassuring to know that your office does because that's a good
[00:47:09.240]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: indicator that maybe other ones do.
[00:47:11.070]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Right. But yeah, the cynicism is there. So I thought I'd throw that question out
[00:47:15.180]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Oh yeah. Another question that I will throw out
[00:47:19.830]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: And look, I'm checking the chat quick to make sure
[00:47:22.920]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Is your use of social media. So we already talked a little bit about Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, in terms of seeing job postings.
[00:47:31.020]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Have you used any of those platforms or any others in terms of creating a kind of a persona for yourself as a professional and how do you use any of those platforms in the job hunt.
[00:47:43.410]Kiersten Haugen: Sure. Um, so I definitely use my LinkedIn profile even beginning with law school to just
[00:47:51.030]Kiersten Haugen: express interest in the fields that I predict that I wanted to work in and to detail some specific projects that I undertook at different positions.
[00:48:01.140]Kiersten Haugen: To prospective employers. Yeah, I didn't. I haven't used any other platforms. Apart from that, though. And I think that
[00:48:09.780]Kiersten Haugen: It's interesting that like the area of law in which you practice seems to matter. I think the space cyber telecom community is much more active in that respect, and perhaps that's not surprising to them in the shirt or something subject matter of our work.
[00:48:21.630]Kiersten Haugen: Whereas I think like the real estate attorneys actually the environmental lawyers were very slim to contact you through LinkedIn.
[00:48:27.810]Kiersten Haugen: Sometimes I think that's like I you never know who somebody might be representing either. I don't. I think sometimes attorneys are a little bit quieter. Maybe I guess to reach out on that platform, but it's certainly it's certainly an option I yeah I think keeping up
[00:48:43.560]Kiersten Haugen: If you're able to use like your LinkedIn site to share information that you think is useful. Any like helpful articles or friends who read posts decently often on either space to re medication.
[00:48:56.010]Kiersten Haugen: This sort of helpful space principles. That's awesome. I have been working on article for a little bit. We'll see if I actually get it published before the end of the year.
[00:49:04.620]Kiersten Haugen: That would probably make it to LinkedIn, too. But of course, if you wind up in a government spot you also get to come that very hefty waiver, like, no, this is not my views.
[00:49:12.330]Kiersten Haugen: Represent the FAA, specifically, they're all unique all errors are my own that's fun and caveat. Same is true of your profiles.
[00:49:21.780]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So I see a question in the comments that is basically about do employers.
[00:49:26.190]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Particularly in the space industry tend to look at social media accounts of people that they're looking at hiring.
[00:49:31.440]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Of applicants, I can say, I've had a few different people experienced that based on what type of position. It was, if you're a political appointment. You might have a different question. If you're looking at government positions and if you are going in as a civilian role.
[00:49:46.650]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But here's I'll turn that over to you. Do you feel like you know if you have an active Twitter profile with your name that's maybe not about space law. Is that, is that something that you need to be mindful of when you start the job hunt.
[00:49:58.500]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, so I mean honestly, the truth is, you know, you just never know. Like, what will be the personal preference of the employer who's actually like looking at the candidates. Right. I know that.
[00:50:07.650]Kiersten Haugen: When I've done interviews, even at the Army Corps. I tend to just like to see a face because that doesn't come along with this. Like if if we've decided that
[00:50:16.500]Kiersten Haugen: The cover letter and the resume, you know, this appears to be a pretty strong candidate. I'm I tend to, especially if we have to do interviews over the phone, which is often the case for
[00:50:27.120]Kiersten Haugen: Government spots. If you're not already local just to know like who it is that I'm talking to
[00:50:32.490]Kiersten Haugen: Some employers may I like depends on your manager. Some of them may be less interested in going that route or may find LinkedIn site. It's kind of clunky, something like that. You never know.
[00:50:42.720]Kiersten Haugen: So, but for me when I was a law student I just kept that in mind. And I always operate under the assumption that
[00:50:49.050]Kiersten Haugen: So long as I'm like job hunting, I should be prepared for somebody who is going to be like me who just wants to get a sense of who is this person before we hop on the phone.
[00:50:57.750]Kiersten Haugen: If depending on how much I have publicly available. I think operating with that mentality is the safest bet and if you
[00:51:04.800]Kiersten Haugen: You know, if you have other like private accounts that are not going to be reflective of anything that you would want the prospective employer to see
[00:51:11.850]Kiersten Haugen: To see what you can to kind of make those private or or not use your full name and JD and your school affiliations like that.
[00:51:21.630]Kiersten Haugen: I, yeah, I would say. Play it safe. But I can't speak as I have my own experience as to whether everyone else also does that research a Google search will often be just as helpful for figuring out, you know, does the candidate represent the things that they said they did on the resume.
[00:51:39.330]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: This kind of a second part of that question is then, as a federal employee. If you wanted to have a social media account that had opinions about something specific.
[00:51:49.020]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: That maybe was outside of even what your job description is, is that something that you think is allowable for most government employees.
[00:51:55.500]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, you're, you're absolutely entitled to have a personal, social media account.
[00:52:01.860]Kiersten Haugen: First Amendment continues to apply if I don't, please. And I think the only like fun caveats. We get to worry about is like the Hatch Act, which some of you may be familiar with.
[00:52:10.680]Kiersten Haugen: That basically just a prohibition against federal employees expressing either support or opposition for an active
[00:52:18.270]Kiersten Haugen: political candidate and a contested race during off official time and did an official capacity. I couldn't you know say
[00:52:25.710]Kiersten Haugen: As if a position like I specifically endorses person that's not an option. Um, but I mean apart from that, though, can I share views on the Clean Water Act on my personal accounts. Absolutely.
[00:52:37.410]Kiersten Haugen: Any sort of environmental policy, that I might be interested in. I absolutely follow and share information from
[00:52:44.520]Kiersten Haugen: Space organizations who have neat projects I follow the ISS. I love that stuff doesn't like starting their day with some cool sounds from outer space from the Hubble telescope
[00:52:57.180]Kiersten Haugen: all raise your hands at once.
[00:53:01.830]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: All right. Well that wraps up my list of questions we have 10 minutes left.
[00:53:07.740]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: But I kind of thought this might be a closer to 45 minute session. So right, as far as I'm concerned, we're right on time.
[00:53:12.930]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: I'm going to Yammer on for another 30 seconds to give anyone their final moment to hit send, on a question in the comments.
[00:53:20.700]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Or to hit that raise hand if you were feeling too shy to do that. And please feel free to you can find my email address on
[00:53:29.520]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: The space website for space Law Week, which is just law that you know backslash space cyber law, please feel free to reach out with any questions you might have.
[00:53:39.510]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: If you have anything that's follow up. I can share those with Kiersten so we're happy to have you here. We will put up
[00:53:44.670]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: That video at the end of the week as well as the video of this session. So if we said something that later was that they were talking about. We'll put that up for you.
[00:53:53.250]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: So you can come find that. And with that, I think we can conclude, and thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here with us today and taking some time to talk about your career and your experience as an attorney at the FAA
[00:54:05.520]Kiersten Haugen: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Good. Let's all of you.
[00:54:09.960]Nebraska Law Elsbeth Magilton: Okay, thank you, everyone. Have a great afternoon.

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NE Space Law Week - (Student Session)Hunting for and Applying for Jobs: The Application Process and Strategies

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