D&I Live After 5

Office of Diversity and Inclusion Author

06/18/2020 Added

14 Plays

Description

This is a follow up to the April 29th D&I Live At 5 conversation. Drs. Barker and McConnell-Black answer questions about finding your purpose through a diversity and inclusion lens.

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[00:00:00.600]Welcome everyone, it is myself Marco Barker,
[00:00:04.310]and Dr. Karnell McConnell Black.
[00:00:06.910]And we are back for the "DNI Live after Five" conversation.
[00:00:12.510]Many of you joined us for an initial discussion
[00:00:15.520]about finding your purpose,
[00:00:17.010]and what that looked like.
[00:00:17.843]And we explored a number of topics,
[00:00:20.400]and really trying to get at the ways in which we think
[00:00:24.810]about purpose, and particularly through sort
[00:00:27.160]of a diversity and inclusion lens.
[00:00:29.250]And so I am so glad to welcome back my colleague,
[00:00:33.950]Dr. McConnell Black, welcome back.
[00:00:35.937](speakers laugh)
[00:00:37.600]So again, Karnell is joining us from Westminster College,
[00:00:41.330]as the Vice President for Student Affairs,
[00:00:44.410]and Dean of Students, who will soon
[00:00:46.520]be transitioning to Reed College,
[00:00:48.520]and so we're so excited for his next transition.
[00:00:52.120]So, thinking about purpose, what a more befitting topic
[00:00:56.620]to sort of revisit Karnell,
[00:00:58.890]so thank you for being a part of this today.
[00:01:01.790]Thank you Marco, I'm excited to talk a little bit more.
[00:01:03.840]I'm ready to have some good conversation.
[00:01:06.776]Absolutely, so we had listened your questions,
[00:01:10.040]and many of the questions that were submitted,
[00:01:12.310]we did not get the opportunity to address.
[00:01:14.640]They were long list, and so we felt compelled
[00:01:18.460]to do this "After Five Series"
[00:01:20.480]that will be available on YouTube,
[00:01:22.580]so that you can get some additional answers
[00:01:25.730]to those questions.
[00:01:27.100]And so we're going to sort of go through them,
[00:01:29.530]and have a bit of a conversation.
[00:01:31.520]The first one talks about,
[00:01:33.790]or asks that, what are ways that we can live on purpose,
[00:01:38.230]if you will, or live our purpose,
[00:01:40.570]during a period of such uncertainty?
[00:01:43.510]So Karnell do you wanna start with this one?
[00:01:47.610]Yeah, as I was thinking about that question, for me,
[00:01:51.639]I had to go back to thinking about what I needed, actually.
[00:01:59.630]And again, I think I remember talking a little bit
[00:02:01.780]about this last time abour, it's okay to be selfish.
[00:02:05.650]And I think there's part of being selfish,
[00:02:07.130]just taking a moment to actually gather my thoughts,
[00:02:09.780]or gather myself, and figuring out
[00:02:11.800]what it is that's really important for me,
[00:02:14.630]but then also what's important for family,
[00:02:17.190]what's important for friends.
[00:02:19.700]And even this moment, especially of social unrest,
[00:02:22.369]in our country right now,
[00:02:25.930]part of this too is that is has been
[00:02:27.500]so emotionally taxing too,
[00:02:30.100]but recognizing that the work that we've been doing,
[00:02:33.320]and the work that we are doing,
[00:02:35.380]is important to move us forward.
[00:02:38.530]But sometimes it's because
[00:02:39.940]it's so emotionally taxing and hard,
[00:02:42.290]I've had moments where it's like,
[00:02:43.387]"Okay, I need to maybe take a step back
[00:02:44.927]"for a moment, I need to tap out
[00:02:46.007]"for just a second to regroup."
[00:02:48.530]Make sure I'm on the right path as it relates
[00:02:51.040]to what it is that I said I am purposeful about,
[00:02:55.070]and why I'm doing what I'm doing.
[00:02:56.730]Whether it's work, or even personal.
[00:03:00.200]And so for me, again, it comes back
[00:03:02.170]to just taking a moment to just pause for a second.
[00:03:04.890]And some folks may say,
[00:03:05.937]"Well, I don't have the option to pause right now."
[00:03:09.210]And I would say, at least make room for something,
[00:03:13.970]whether it's 10 minutes, whether it's an hour,
[00:03:16.510]whether it's a day, whether it's finding a book to read,
[00:03:22.370]or a favorite show to watch,
[00:03:24.070]or something like that, just to take a moment to pause
[00:03:26.320]and disconnect for a second.
[00:03:28.790]Because the things that we're saying is our lives,
[00:03:32.635]it's happening in real life.
[00:03:34.310]And so it can be traumatic, and so there are moments
[00:03:40.810]when you just have to take a moment to just say,
[00:03:42.457]"Hey, let me pause for a second.
[00:03:44.907]"Let me take a step back."
[00:03:47.270]No, you're absolutely positively right.
[00:03:49.770]And I think this sort of sense
[00:03:52.073]that it can feel overwhelming,
[00:03:54.860]from both the sense of, in some cases wanting
[00:03:58.010]to do everything, and put all that we have into it.
[00:04:01.840]And in other instances, not knowing what to do sometimes,
[00:04:05.710]can be sort of overwhelming of what's my role?
[00:04:08.640]What can I do?
[00:04:09.473]And I think it's really important to also think about,
[00:04:11.690]like, what's your part?
[00:04:12.523]Like, you don't have to try and take on everything.
[00:04:15.850]And I think, whether you are professionally,
[00:04:19.210]whether you're in a role that provides an opportunity
[00:04:23.410]for you to be a part of a solution,
[00:04:27.620]or a part of bringing awareness
[00:04:29.797]to racism and promoting racial equity.
[00:04:34.680]I think whatever that is,
[00:04:36.620]it is about doing what you can do,
[00:04:38.600]and being okay with it.
[00:04:40.530]Like you don't have to,
[00:04:41.443]like it doesn't have to feel like you've cured world hunger,
[00:04:47.630]like it doesn't have to feel that way,
[00:04:49.240]that you can, sometimes even like the small things can
[00:04:52.600]be really impactful.
[00:04:53.610]And so I think about finding your purpose,
[00:04:56.060]or living on purpose.
[00:04:57.270]It's about being able again,
[00:04:59.620]to what we talked about early on, in the earlier segment,
[00:05:02.900]was about finding what you can do,
[00:05:05.650]finding what you're good at,
[00:05:09.150]what's natural to you, what's a talent of yours.
[00:05:11.520]And being able to utilize that,
[00:05:13.110]and just really focusing on it and not, again,
[00:05:15.480]getting overwhelmed, 'cause it can, it is daunting.
[00:05:18.920]It can be really stressful, trying
[00:05:24.340]to figure out exactly like how you do it.
[00:05:27.974]Yeah, I would also add,
[00:05:31.150]I think it's also important to surround yourself
[00:05:33.366]with other folks too, who are also on that same journey,
[00:05:38.650]or similar journey.
[00:05:39.910]And that way, you can also get both
[00:05:42.800]that validation saying,
[00:05:43.857]"Yes, it's okay to take a moment to stop."
[00:05:46.210]Like, I can see like,
[00:05:51.250]the race is really a marathon,
[00:05:53.190]and so let's pace ourselves to get there.
[00:05:56.320]And if we, I mean, that's the reality of like,
[00:06:01.730]hundreds of years of systemic oppression and racism
[00:06:05.180]in our country, is like,
[00:06:06.652]this is not gonna get dismantled in a couple of days,
[00:06:09.790]or in a couple weeks, or even in a year.
[00:06:11.950]And so the ways that we have to think about this,
[00:06:14.390]is how do we pace ourselves
[00:06:15.890]to make the work that we think is important.
[00:06:22.150]How do we make it happen?
[00:06:24.110]And again, it doesn't have to be all at one time.
[00:06:26.160]But when you have a good support group,
[00:06:28.250]and folks around you that can say,
[00:06:29.427]"Hey, slow down.
[00:06:32.787]"It's okay, slow down, I got you,
[00:06:34.607]"like, pass the baton.
[00:06:37.047]"Let me let me get in here and help."
[00:06:40.410]So I think that's another way that I think,
[00:06:42.974]for me to be able to live, you know, live my purpose,
[00:06:47.480]especially when things are just hard and challenging,
[00:06:49.970]like, you have to rely on other folks.
[00:06:54.650]And again, people might say,
[00:06:56.137]"Well, I don't have other folks to rely on."
[00:06:58.620]Like, we don't get anywhere in this world
[00:07:00.140]by ourselves, we don't.
[00:07:02.310]So I there has to be someone that you can connect with,
[00:07:06.520]whether it's a mentor, friend, or colleague,
[00:07:09.130]or family member that you could connect with to say,
[00:07:12.237]"Okay, let me am I going too fast?"
[00:07:16.054](Marco laughs) And they can give
[00:07:16.887]you a good check point.
[00:07:19.770]Yeah absolutely, the next question is a bit different,
[00:07:24.050]slightly sort of different direction.
[00:07:25.957]That sort of more of a in practice.
[00:07:29.010]So it asks,
[00:07:30.887]"How could higher education institutions
[00:07:32.937]"engage diverse alumni?"
[00:07:36.210]And the second part of that is,
[00:07:37.197]"How do you combat resistance
[00:07:39.127]"to creating groups or communities
[00:07:41.127]"to provide space for underrepresented students or alumni?"
[00:07:48.070]Guess I can start Karnell?
[00:07:49.440]I don't mind, if you don't mind.
[00:07:53.090]I don't mind starting.
[00:07:54.910]Or you can go for it.
[00:07:56.000]Either way, so I'll start and then certainly jump in it,
[00:07:58.650]right, so I'm very passionate about this.
[00:08:02.700]And I think, certainly, for those who are watching,
[00:08:08.370]who are part of higher education,
[00:08:11.530]there certainly is sort of a structural piece of this.
[00:08:13.910]And so many institutions,
[00:08:15.390]if not all institutions have some sort of alumni office,
[00:08:21.690]or alumni association,
[00:08:23.470]or is typically, some larger institutions,
[00:08:26.560]they are their own separate entities, and other cases,
[00:08:29.970]it may be part of your institution advancement offices.
[00:08:33.620]And so those are great places to start in terms
[00:08:36.110]of having a general idea about the bandwidth,
[00:08:41.410]and the capacity to be able to do that.
[00:08:43.170]I think you'll find that there are some different cases
[00:08:48.620]where it could be sort of challenging
[00:08:51.020]to figure out again, who those persons are,
[00:08:53.050]how do you start, where do you start?
[00:08:55.120]And so, but I think the overall question in terms
[00:08:57.490]of engagement has to begin with, at least just starting.
[00:09:00.800]And you actually have to have a concerted effort
[00:09:03.520]that is focused primarily on diverse alumni.
[00:09:06.060]I think, a general sense of waiting,
[00:09:08.830]and saying that we'll cast out the net to everyone,
[00:09:11.920]and we hope to reach diverse alums
[00:09:14.960]doesn't quite work that way.
[00:09:16.810]And so you have to really think
[00:09:18.410]about what can be a concerted effort,
[00:09:20.900]in terms of what that looks like?
[00:09:22.500]And then why are you engaging?
[00:09:23.940]And so having a real intentionality around
[00:09:27.230]that we want to hear diverse voices,
[00:09:29.350]and being able to articulate that.
[00:09:30.530]And so I think there has to be again,
[00:09:32.510]just some real purpose,
[00:09:34.237]sort of going back to our topic,
[00:09:36.930]but real purpose and intentionality
[00:09:38.430]about wanting to do that.
[00:09:41.740]I think the other piece of that,
[00:09:42.940]and a little bit around the resistance,
[00:09:45.650]and creating groups.
[00:09:48.070]Again, I think it's important to be mindful and thoughtful
[00:09:51.130]about who is informing your institution,
[00:09:55.004]and being able to sort of do a self assessment,
[00:09:58.280]a self reflection about who have we been able to engage?
[00:10:01.310]And I think when you do that assessment,
[00:10:03.700]the numbers will be clear,
[00:10:05.110]or the activities will be clear that there's a gap.
[00:10:09.774]And so as you face resistance,
[00:10:11.360]I think being able to couch that into that,
[00:10:13.790]as an institution who wants to provide our students
[00:10:17.840]with the best experience,
[00:10:19.140]and who wants our institution to advance,
[00:10:21.600]and certainly elevate, that part of
[00:10:24.060]that certainly rests on having alums engage.
[00:10:28.500]And who that is, I think, is also incredibly important.
[00:10:31.683]So I think there are some sort of value propositions
[00:10:34.310]on why it is important to have diverse alums.
[00:10:37.350]So sort of wrap all this up,
[00:10:39.250]and then I'll certainly pass it to Karnell,
[00:10:40.720]I think, again, the how, okay there are a number of ways
[00:10:46.430]to be again intentional about that
[00:10:48.150]from the communication, and what that looks like,
[00:10:50.170]but also again, creating the reason,
[00:10:51.550]so whether or not, so for example,
[00:10:54.610]there are different institutions
[00:10:55.800]where we've had multicultural homecomings, or homecoming,
[00:11:00.040]or some sort of event that is focused
[00:11:04.100]on wanting to engage diverse alums
[00:11:06.420]and so that's been part of the practice,
[00:11:08.130]just again in terms of how we engage.
[00:11:11.180]Two, I think the other piece of this is,
[00:11:13.740]what happens if you face resistance?
[00:11:15.560]Again, I think the value proposition is clear,
[00:11:18.510]that for anyone to be a 21st century and beyond institution,
[00:11:23.920]it absolutely rests on being able
[00:11:26.390]to have other diverse perspectives,
[00:11:28.630]and that includes alums who are not only part
[00:11:32.250]of the fundraising base, but also part of the base
[00:11:36.460]to be available as a network,
[00:11:38.332]and as a support to growing student populations,
[00:11:42.360]which we know this population are becoming more diverse.
[00:11:44.410]So, there is clearly a case that can be made.
[00:11:48.210]So that as you are facing resistance,
[00:11:49.830]you have some of that proof.
[00:11:52.490]Karnell, your thoughts about--
[00:11:53.720]Yeah, it's been so interesting,
[00:11:57.090]as I've never had a formal functional role within,
[00:12:03.260]advancement or alumni relations, or anything like that.
[00:12:06.380]But it's so interesting as I've been thinking
[00:12:09.630]about my alma mater,
[00:12:10.970]and the ways that they're engaging black alums.
[00:12:15.160]And it's really interesting because at one point,
[00:12:19.860]I think, the experience of black students,
[00:12:23.900]at my alma mater was one
[00:12:25.490]that students didn't feel like they were included,
[00:12:28.620]and didn't feel like they belong.
[00:12:30.350]And so I could see how that also translated
[00:12:33.200]to when we have Facebook,
[00:12:35.130]and we have all these affinity groups,
[00:12:37.020]where you can have space,
[00:12:38.600]you can create your own space,
[00:12:39.433]if an institution doesn't create it.
[00:12:41.470]We gon create it for ourselves.
[00:12:43.420]But it's been really interesting
[00:12:44.500]to see my alma mater actually invet
[00:12:47.350]also some infrastructure, and supported resources
[00:12:51.180]around making sure that diverse alums are supported.
[00:12:56.910]And that's not just looking at it from,
[00:12:58.950]we're just asking for money,
[00:12:59.900]but actually what are the programs and services
[00:13:01.900]that they're providing for students beyond their degrees?
[00:13:07.290]And so I've been really excited
[00:13:11.440]to see how an institution actually works collaboratively
[00:13:16.920]with an alumni association, in particular,
[00:13:20.750]black alumni associations,
[00:13:22.360]or even the most marginalized communities of alumni.
[00:13:26.120]And so I just found it to be really helpful in that sense.
[00:13:30.127]And that it also becomes a space
[00:13:32.310]to where the folks from alumni are not necessarily trying
[00:13:36.630]to defend the institution,
[00:13:37.780]but really trying to lean into those types of conversations,
[00:13:40.500]when the tough conversations come up around like,
[00:13:43.280]how are you supporting,
[00:13:44.140]or are you supporting black students?
[00:13:45.710]Or how are you supporting marginalized students?
[00:13:48.260]It actually comes up in the conversation,
[00:13:50.070]and the dialogue, and they don't shy away from it.
[00:13:53.010]Rather, they actually embrace,
[00:13:54.420]and actually want to have the conversation to figure out,
[00:13:56.460]what we can do beyond just talking,
[00:13:59.580]and actually moving things into action.
[00:14:02.200]And so I think that's another aspect of it.
[00:14:05.890]And again, I think there will be institutions
[00:14:07.073]that will have resistance.
[00:14:09.641]And again, my perspective is
[00:14:16.250]that we have to engage in sharing the narrative
[00:14:19.210]of the students that are at the institution,
[00:14:21.770]and then where they go after they leave the institution.
[00:14:24.873]And so, how do you make again, the value proposition
[00:14:27.730]that it is important to acknowledge your alums
[00:14:32.090]after they're gone, in particular, black alums,
[00:14:35.030]or alums that are the most marginalized on the campus?
[00:14:41.880]So just another thought.
[00:14:44.887]No, really good points.
[00:14:45.720]And I think if anything,
[00:14:47.020]it points to the importance of I think, again,
[00:14:50.530]the how is just having structures, right?
[00:14:52.930]So Karnell just mentioned
[00:14:54.770]about having a black alumni society
[00:14:57.910]or association at his alma mater.
[00:15:01.020]We have the same one of my alma mater.
[00:15:02.620]Well, actually two of them, have groups.
[00:15:05.850]And I think that some,
[00:15:08.110]most of you have these formal structures,
[00:15:09.480]I think institutions have to then be,
[00:15:11.540]again, really thoughtful
[00:15:12.500]about then how you create space
[00:15:14.050]for their voices to be heard.
[00:15:15.320]And so whether or not, I think, being intentional
[00:15:19.560]about when are times for them to be able
[00:15:22.050]to engage the leadership, whether you're bringing them back
[00:15:26.200]or hosting town halls, I mean, I think there are ways
[00:15:28.610]to be able to do this.
[00:15:30.160]So I think the how higher education can,
[00:15:33.500]is in a number of ways,
[00:15:34.840]from everything, from a sort of formal official structure,
[00:15:39.520]and having space to do that.
[00:15:41.090]Even something more informal,
[00:15:42.980]and being able to create opportunities again,
[00:15:45.210]for people to come back, provide input.
[00:15:48.990]I think what's also really fascinating right now,
[00:15:50.780]that our institution is actually gonna be working
[00:15:54.700]with the association here,
[00:15:57.190]to host a conversation on just mercy.
[00:16:00.037]There's gonna be open to all alums.
[00:16:02.280]And so that's sort of another way
[00:16:05.330]that I think that it's not only,
[00:16:07.210]I mean, certainly I hope they will reach diverse alums,
[00:16:09.620]but I think it's also a space of just thinking
[00:16:11.910]about how do you engage alums
[00:16:14.880]in these conversations in general,
[00:16:17.050]around diversity and inclusion,
[00:16:19.770]that this also helps to sort of provide the pathway
[00:16:23.760]to then have the conversation
[00:16:25.500]about why you need specific groups and communities
[00:16:30.100]that are for minoritized or underrepresented populations,
[00:16:34.730]or marginalized populations.
[00:16:36.530]So, again, some different approaches
[00:16:39.210]that can certainly be taken.
[00:16:41.520]We're gonna shift one more time Karnell.
[00:16:43.790]The next question is talking about,
[00:16:48.677]"Can we talk about the professional and personal risk,
[00:16:52.067]"and potential consequences of being a champion
[00:16:55.677]"for diversity inclusion within an organization."
[00:17:01.330]Yeah, I think one of the first things
[00:17:06.260]that I think about is, when we talk
[00:17:10.790]about diversity, equity and inclusion work,
[00:17:14.120]it can be very vulnerable,
[00:17:16.900]especially for those who have been the most oppressed.
[00:17:19.550]And so, if they're the ones
[00:17:21.840]that are being the champion of this,
[00:17:24.560]it's sometimes asking them to divulge more information
[00:17:29.810]than maybe they're probably willing to.
[00:17:32.800]And that is sometimes asking a lot.
[00:17:38.520]Or that once someone shares that story,
[00:17:40.980]it becomes the only story that people then know.
[00:17:43.550]And so it becomes the one story,
[00:17:44.993]then there's a problem with having just one story.
[00:17:47.860]And then that individual, whoever, whatever identity
[00:17:50.960]that the individual holds, it becomes the story,
[00:17:55.440]and that is too generalizable to the community.
[00:18:01.100]And so for me, I think part of this is
[00:18:03.130]there are the professional pieces
[00:18:05.290]where folks would always go (gasps).
[00:18:06.800]There can be the the risk of, "Oh Karnell's the person
[00:18:10.527]"that always talks about going to the meeting,
[00:18:12.337]"and we know what he's gon say."
[00:18:14.653]And people start to tune it out,
[00:18:16.600]they become numb to the conversation,
[00:18:18.710]or the dialog and don't realize that actually,
[00:18:21.410]I'm just trying to bring awareness around
[00:18:23.130]an issue that we're talking about that.
[00:18:25.120]And again, if folks are not willing to engage in it,
[00:18:28.753]again, people just tune it out.
[00:18:30.350]They're like, "Oh, it's Karnell again,
[00:18:31.507]"he's talking about diversity, equity and inclusion work.
[00:18:33.657]"And we know what he gon say."
[00:18:36.620]Or whatnot, and the other piece of it too,
[00:18:40.367]that I think about also from a professional standpoint,
[00:18:46.140]is that, I think sometimes we can become taxed so much,
[00:18:58.040]because we are the champion.
[00:18:59.900]And then we become the champion
[00:19:01.570]for diversity initiative one,
[00:19:03.440]all the way to diversity initiative ten,
[00:19:05.260]and like we're the champion for all 10 initiatives,
[00:19:07.100]just us doing it.
[00:19:07.933]And we're like, "Where's everybody else that's supposed
[00:19:09.605]'to be doing this work?"
[00:19:10.438]I'm left to do it myself, and that's not even my job.
[00:19:13.710](Marco laughs)
[00:19:15.001]Like it's supposed to be,
[00:19:16.209]so that's, I think that's another piece of it.
[00:19:19.830]And I think personally,
[00:19:24.310]at least for me, I have found moments
[00:19:26.930]where I have been uncomfortable at times,
[00:19:34.340]personally, sharing my own story.
[00:19:36.600]And sometimes, I don't know, for me how I,
[00:19:42.470]I can't remember how I've navigated those things.
[00:19:45.140]But I also went back to,
[00:19:47.717]"Okay, how does this help other folks?"
[00:19:51.960]But again, I feel like I don't want
[00:19:54.700]to just have my story out there, just to tell a story.
[00:19:57.120]But my hope is that when I do share the story,
[00:20:00.170]or share my story, that people actually have action to it.
[00:20:03.050]So for me, the personal risk is
[00:20:03.883]that I have to share something very vulnerable
[00:20:07.010]to a community that then doesn't do anything with it,
[00:20:10.210]or the devalues my own personal experience
[00:20:13.580]that I've had with something.
[00:20:14.510]And that's the part that really hurts to say,
[00:20:16.127]"Okay, they don't really care about my story."
[00:20:19.330]Or the community doesn't really value it.
[00:20:22.070]And so that can take a toll emotionally, I think,
[00:20:26.600]on an individual who's championing this work.
[00:20:32.370]No, I would just ditto all of that.
[00:20:34.420]I think, as someone who is charged with doing this work,
[00:20:38.486]and as part of my title,
[00:20:39.770]I absolutely agree with everything that Karnell mentioned.
[00:20:42.450]I think the only thing I would add,
[00:20:44.530]is that to the later part of what Karnell was talking about,
[00:20:48.280]of just the sort of personal investment
[00:20:50.810]it takes to speak up, and what that means,
[00:20:53.630]and there's also sort of a vulnerability
[00:20:56.450]of how people will respond,
[00:20:58.000]and then how you deal with that, right?
[00:21:00.010]So if their response is that they're hearing you,
[00:21:02.020]that's great, sometimes they may not hear you.
[00:21:04.840]And so what does that mean for your own sense of self worth?
[00:21:08.560]And so I think it's really easy
[00:21:11.350]to begin to question yourself,
[00:21:13.020]or wonder what you're doing is important,
[00:21:17.600]and still have the tenacity to still be an advocate,
[00:21:21.170]I think, is so incredibly important.
[00:21:24.610]And then just the,
[00:21:26.060]I would say the additional professional risk,
[00:21:29.930]is also I think as you think about,
[00:21:35.230]you may be in positions
[00:21:36.500]that you're championing is a viewpoint
[00:21:42.000]that is not shared by a supervisor,
[00:21:44.190]or shared by the majority of your colleagues.
[00:21:46.180]And so it certainly could place you,
[00:21:51.280]or position you in a scenario
[00:21:55.970]where it's sort of this I versus them,
[00:21:58.630]and there's also something
[00:22:00.620]that can certainly come with this.
[00:22:02.080]And so I think that those are certainly other risks,
[00:22:05.900]I think there are absolutely opportunities,
[00:22:08.580]and potential for it to be less risky.
[00:22:11.020]And I would offer that,
[00:22:12.811]I think the way in which you navigate it,
[00:22:16.010]so that you do have less risk,
[00:22:17.023]is that I found that having conversations
[00:22:19.960]with supervisors or team leaders,
[00:22:23.360]or whatever the case may be,
[00:22:25.251]prior to sort of getting into a group setting,
[00:22:28.190]so that there is more one on one,
[00:22:30.010]and actual conversation
[00:22:31.010]about what championing this work looks like,
[00:22:34.190]and why it's important to you,
[00:22:36.000]and being able to get a sense of how it's important
[00:22:39.510]to the unit, or to the department,
[00:22:41.290]or the area where you're situated.
[00:22:44.800]And so I think there are absolutely ways
[00:22:47.370]to mitigate that risk.
[00:22:48.363]I think the other way,
[00:22:49.640]sort of the personal risk,
[00:22:51.790]is being able to ask the question
[00:22:53.370]of is this a particular instance
[00:22:55.560]that is going to call
[00:22:57.010]for my investment of my time, and my energy?
[00:23:00.500]And so being able to make those calls,
[00:23:04.534]and being okay that you don't have
[00:23:06.280]to be the champion every single time.
[00:23:08.670]So this goes back to our earlier conversation,
[00:23:10.620]about living on purpose,
[00:23:12.480]and being especially in these times,
[00:23:14.290]that many people are just dealing with their own emotions,
[00:23:17.780]and own feelings, and trying to manage, and cope,
[00:23:21.080]and what's happening right now nationally,
[00:23:23.480]with the number of protests and demonstrations
[00:23:25.120]around black lives.
[00:23:25.970]That I think even it's even more critical
[00:23:29.240]that you be thoughtful and reflective
[00:23:31.490]about when and how you champion,
[00:23:34.540]and how it is gonna sort of best serve your own physical,
[00:23:40.720]and mental well-being too,
[00:23:42.230]is one way to sort of mitigate that.
[00:23:46.290]Other thoughts you had Karnell?
[00:23:48.327]No, I think you added some good stuff there.
[00:23:50.604](speakers laugh)
[00:23:52.490]When you're living it, I tell you,
[00:23:53.690]it's something that you have to be thoughtful about,
[00:23:56.600]and it's not always easy being the champion.
[00:23:59.570]And so I recognize
[00:24:00.510]that I've been fortunate, being in spaces,
[00:24:02.480]and I think we've probably both been in spaces
[00:24:04.260]that being a champion was relatively well received, right?
[00:24:11.400]But I know that for some people,
[00:24:13.110]they really are some time the sole person.
[00:24:15.410]And so I just know that that can be defeating,
[00:24:17.940]if you don't sort of have a mechanism
[00:24:19.505]to be able to sort of protect yourself in those moments.
[00:24:25.320]Actually you bring up another thing
[00:24:28.080]that kind of spurred a thought for me was,
[00:24:31.690]at institutions, there are sometimes
[00:24:34.410]that at an institutional level,
[00:24:35.610]you're supported and you can navigate things,
[00:24:38.440]but maybe at the department level,
[00:24:39.800]or the individual unit level, it looks different.
[00:24:42.310]And so yes, the institution may be saying these things,
[00:24:44.650]but then there's a disconnect between what the department--
[00:24:46.738]Yes. And then sometimes it's,
[00:24:49.870]oftentimes it's the reverse where the department is like,
[00:24:53.627]"Oh, we got you.
[00:24:54.460]"We're gonna support you.
[00:24:55.293]"We're gonna push through.
[00:24:56.797]"We have your back."
[00:24:58.540]And institution doesn't it.
[00:24:59.950]And so it's really interesting
[00:25:01.410]to see how folks champion this work
[00:25:06.960]from those particular spaces.
[00:25:09.520]And again, it goes back to what you're saying.
[00:25:12.160]You get to pick and choose you.
[00:25:13.590]I mean you get to pick and choose,
[00:25:14.690]everybody else gets to pick and choose,
[00:25:16.158](Marco laughs) you get to pick and choose too
[00:25:17.320]what you champion and don't champion.
[00:25:20.670]And especially if it's not something
[00:25:22.510]that's written in your job description,
[00:25:23.980]like, there's opportunities for you to say,
[00:25:25.907]"No, I can't take that on right now.
[00:25:29.587]"I don't have the capacity,
[00:25:32.397]"physically and emotionally to champion this right now."
[00:25:38.190]And maybe you need to go find somebody else.
[00:25:40.350]Yeah, absolutely, no,
[00:25:41.560]you're absolutely, I've seen that.
[00:25:43.330]And it's even happening in cases,
[00:25:46.710]yeah, where there's sort of this disconnect
[00:25:48.470]in the infrastructure of the institution,
[00:25:50.780]where it's coming from a high,
[00:25:52.010]but it's not quite translated down,
[00:25:53.420]or filtered is way down.
[00:25:54.630]And so people find themselves sort of stuck.
[00:25:57.010]And so I'll also I want to circle back,
[00:26:00.720]and connect this to what you mentioned earlier Karnell,
[00:26:03.940]was around having people in your corner,
[00:26:06.900]or a network of people, or a community of people
[00:26:08.750]who are also on the same page as you.
[00:26:10.107]And so sometimes, when you find yourself in those positions,
[00:26:14.720]well, we may not even necessarily have the answer
[00:26:16.620]that's right for you.
[00:26:17.980]I hope that those those of you who are watching are part of,
[00:26:22.110]or are able to find communities,
[00:26:23.610]or a part of communities
[00:26:24.960]that are having these conversations,
[00:26:26.650]so that you don't necessarily feel alone,
[00:26:29.820]is also a really great way to get advice
[00:26:32.920]of how other people may be navigating it.
[00:26:35.430]They could also certainly help you.
[00:26:37.930]So our last question that we're going to discuss today,
[00:26:41.410]is in your wheelhouse Karnell,
[00:26:44.130]about student affairs professionals.
[00:26:46.460]And the question is,
[00:26:47.937]"How can student affairs professionals,
[00:26:49.997]"better help students during these uncertain,
[00:26:54.897]"and I think we would even say,
[00:26:57.797]"times of heightened tension?"
[00:27:01.150]Yes, how do we help our students?
[00:27:04.330]I come from this space of saying,
[00:27:08.170]our students experiences need to be honored and valued.
[00:27:12.240]And I think the perspective of,
[00:27:16.400]as professionals go and it's like,
[00:27:17.373]"Oh, I know what needs to happen,
[00:27:18.577]"I know what needs to we need to do."
[00:27:22.934]Whatever we thought we knew is different right now,
[00:27:26.200]given the context, given the environment, it's different.
[00:27:29.180]So you need to listen,
[00:27:30.670]I think that's an initial first step,
[00:27:32.930]is like okay, listen.
[00:27:34.360]What are your students sharing?
[00:27:35.820]What are they saying?
[00:27:37.170]How are they moving about campus in a different way?
[00:27:39.680]When you're in the dining hall,
[00:27:41.830]or if you're on a Zoom call with your students,
[00:27:45.170]what are the things that are coming up?
[00:27:47.200]And it's not always about the business stuff,
[00:27:49.510]it's not always about we need to get these projects done,
[00:27:51.630]or these tasks done, or you have a conversation,
[00:27:54.310]or one on one with the students
[00:27:56.100]from leaving the academic standpoint,
[00:27:58.590]and other things are coming up in the conversation.
[00:28:02.770]Those are important moments that actually ask,
[00:28:06.707]"How can I support you?
[00:28:08.557]"What can I do to ease the burden a bit?"
[00:28:13.424]And I think this is actually coming back
[00:28:14.257]to some of the conversations
[00:28:16.290]that I've been having here on my own campus.
[00:28:20.050]But also that we'll, we are gonna
[00:28:21.720]be having actually a little bit more formally next week,
[00:28:24.070]is around this, just this idea of going back to,
[00:28:28.380]it's no longer business as usual.
[00:28:30.490]So the way that we're having conversations
[00:28:32.870]with our students before all of this,
[00:28:35.190]looks very different now.
[00:28:37.550]And so if you're still using the same things,
[00:28:41.191]and the same mindset, and the same approach,
[00:28:43.540]without having a new filter of what's going on right now,
[00:28:46.700]you're going to miss the mark
[00:28:48.090]on how to actually provide support to students.
[00:28:51.580]And so again, I think your first step is really having
[00:28:55.990]those conversations, listening.
[00:28:57.730]And also listening for what isn't said.
[00:29:00.710]I think it's another piece too.
[00:29:03.776]So that I think was one piece of it.
[00:29:05.880]And then offering the space,
[00:29:07.690]I think that's the thing,
[00:29:08.660]is being able to offer space and support for students.
[00:29:14.460]So that when they're ready
[00:29:16.200]on their terms to engage, they will.
[00:29:19.480]But to be able to say we have the space here for you,
[00:29:22.220]or here are the resources for you,
[00:29:24.150]when you're ready, you let me know,
[00:29:25.690]'cause again, they're managing all this other stuff too.
[00:29:28.840]So our time schedule looks very different
[00:29:31.190]than their time schedule right now.
[00:29:32.600]So again, we have to take a step back,
[00:29:34.570]and reassess the ways that we engaged
[00:29:36.870]with our students prior,
[00:29:38.190]to recognize that there are new ways,
[00:29:40.000]and in other things
[00:29:41.783]that are pre occupying our students minds.
[00:29:44.630]And we have to be in tune with what those things are.
[00:29:48.440]And if we don't know what those things are,
[00:29:50.230]we need to be doing some research,
[00:29:51.430]and figuring out why we don't know them.
[00:29:54.127]Yeah, no, that's all really major important,
[00:29:59.420]dropping some major Knowledge, around what that looks like.
[00:30:02.870]And I think I too have had to learn,
[00:30:05.490]sort of the patience, and being open to the ways
[00:30:10.050]in which students want to engage now.
[00:30:12.450]I completely agree with you,
[00:30:13.550]and sort of been my own personal experience
[00:30:16.065]of finding the right balance of being available,
[00:30:19.740]but again, allowing students to sort
[00:30:22.420]of find their own pathway, and how they want to deal with,
[00:30:28.420]not even deal with, but respond to sort of what's happening.
[00:30:31.830]So whether we're talking about the pandemic,
[00:30:33.970]or again talking about a lot of
[00:30:37.030]what's happening in terms
[00:30:37.863]of the Black Lives Matter movement.
[00:30:41.250]And just again, really outcry for
[00:30:46.200]what's happening around the loss of black lives.
[00:30:51.350]I think students are hurting.
[00:30:52.857]So the student have a range of emotions.
[00:30:54.270]I mean, think there,
[00:30:55.220]I talked with some students the other day and,
[00:30:56.689]one student said they were optimistic,
[00:30:59.230]and another student they were just completely exhausted,
[00:31:01.830]and didn't know what else to think.
[00:31:04.090]They just didn't have the words to express.
[00:31:05.620]And so I think it does represent such the range
[00:31:08.890]of where students are.
[00:31:10.080]And I agree with you Karnell,
[00:31:11.500]that we have to be in a position
[00:31:15.780]of making ourselves available.
[00:31:18.560]I love when you said,
[00:31:20.090]hearing what students are not saying.
[00:31:22.550]I would also add,
[00:31:26.560]checking in if we're not hearing back.
[00:31:29.040]So you know, part of allowing the students to sort of craft,
[00:31:32.430]or curate their own experience,
[00:31:34.640]but also that if you haven't heard from students,
[00:31:36.790]at least be able to check in,
[00:31:38.810]and if they say, "Okay, thanks for checking in,
[00:31:41.217]"we got it, we're good.
[00:31:42.217]"We'll follow up with you."
[00:31:43.960]Being okay with it,
[00:31:44.793]but I think finding the right balance of giving space,
[00:31:49.850]but also making sure that you don't neglect, right?
[00:31:53.110]I think it could be easy to sort of say,
[00:31:56.177]"The students are doing their own thing.
[00:31:57.827]"We'll just wait for them."
[00:32:00.723]Just being careful that we're not missing anything,
[00:32:03.660]or missing some really critical cues
[00:32:06.523]that they're telling us.
[00:32:07.521]I mean, there are things
[00:32:08.354]that we can definitely still learn
[00:32:10.060]from what we've experienced prior to this.
[00:32:12.930]And I think those things don't just go away completely.
[00:32:15.900]But I think they can, especially around the work they were,
[00:32:19.300]that student affairs professionals are doing,
[00:32:20.920]it has to be somewhat proactive.
[00:32:23.010]I mean, I think about the, and again,
[00:32:24.700]not to generalize, but I think about this generation,
[00:32:26.980]and they want the outreach, they want the support.
[00:32:30.800]And so, us not doing that,
[00:32:32.950]at least to begin with,
[00:32:33.970]to see how folks are gonna engage,
[00:32:35.940]and then us being patient, like you're saying.
[00:32:37.520]It's like, "Okay, we've done outreach.
[00:32:40.677]"We're gonna give students the space,
[00:32:42.070]and place to figure out when they wanna use it,
[00:32:44.000]or when and whatnot, but we have to be patient.
[00:32:47.660]And I think that's,
[00:32:50.430]I think, even in this time now,
[00:32:51.980]I think as professionals, we wanna try,
[00:32:53.670]we are quick to wanna try go and fix things right now.
[00:32:56.960]And the reality is, it's not about fixing anything,
[00:32:59.793]like I mean, in the sense of like,
[00:33:01.610]you're not there to fix the student,
[00:33:02.920]or fix the situation or the problem.
[00:33:05.130]Like, students also want you to be there with them in this,
[00:33:10.320]we wanna be in community to do this together,
[00:33:13.210]to solve these big, big, problems
[00:33:16.550]that our country is facing.
[00:33:19.070]But also at the end, our students or human beings,
[00:33:21.460]who also have, again, lots of life stuff happening
[00:33:25.450]that we have to be in tune with.
[00:33:28.830]No, that's absolutely a really good stuff.
[00:33:32.380]Well Karnell, we are at the end of our time
[00:33:36.140]for the "After Five" chat.
[00:33:38.410]And so I just wanna say that I'm so appreciative
[00:33:41.010]to you, to providing this additional time
[00:33:43.700]to hear more of your reflections.
[00:33:45.833]I think I certainly took,
[00:33:47.710]even in our short time together,
[00:33:49.070]took some things away, that I'm gonna be applying,
[00:33:52.160]and thinking about, and continuously processing.
[00:33:56.230]And so thank you.
[00:33:58.290]Of course, of course, I enjoy,
[00:34:00.473]I am so glad that I had an opportunity
[00:34:03.626]to do some follow up with you.
[00:34:05.350]And I'm so appreciative of the work that you're doing.
[00:34:09.350]And the work that folks are doing around their campuses.
[00:34:12.890]And I say keep up the good fight.
[00:34:15.406]We need champions, but set some boundaries.
[00:34:20.200]Absolutely yeah, there absolutely is a need,
[00:34:22.630]I think more than ever,
[00:34:24.890]for people to, especially if you feel
[00:34:28.183]like this is a part of your purpose.
[00:34:29.780]I mean, we did this first segment.
[00:34:32.760]And so this is the first, we're gonna continue the series
[00:34:35.450]of "DNI Live at Five".
[00:34:37.910]But part of this, and part of starting with purpose,
[00:34:40.250]is because we do absolutely need more advocates.
[00:34:44.510]We need more champions.
[00:34:46.100]We need people who are really committed
[00:34:50.270]to this work, and have a passion for it.
[00:34:53.070]And I think whatever that looks like for you,
[00:34:56.010]so whether you're in accounting,
[00:34:57.920]or you're in student affairs.
[00:35:00.310]Like we need people who,
[00:35:02.860]this can still be tied to your purpose,
[00:35:04.870]that your purpose may be ensuring
[00:35:07.960]that accounting principles,
[00:35:11.120]and approaches to budget planning,
[00:35:13.570]factors and inclusion and diversity at your institution.
[00:35:16.770]And so that's part of what we hope you take away,
[00:35:20.230]is that wherever you may be positioned,
[00:35:23.180]there is absolutely a ways
[00:35:24.870]that you can still live out your purpose,
[00:35:28.760]and that it doesn't have to necessarily
[00:35:30.660]be an official title or role that exactly matches.
[00:35:34.970]And so we thank you for watching this segment.
[00:35:39.500]And you can always visit diversity.unl.edu
[00:35:44.490]to learn about future "DNI Live at Five" topics.
[00:35:49.910]So with that, we're signing off, again, Karnell thank you,
[00:35:54.421]and I certainly look forward
[00:35:56.710]to hearing great things
[00:35:58.650]on your future endeavor at Reed College.
[00:36:01.900]Thank you Marco.
[00:36:03.770]Alrighty, take care.

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