-: Wonderful to be here with you all,
and my name is Tracy Weber.
I'm the senior director of Collaborative IT Services
at the University of Notre Dame.
And I will let my colleague, Nina, introduce herself.
-: Good afternoon everyone.
I'm happy to be here and, you know,
Holdread with Athletics IT,
I report to Tracy, but embedded in the athletics area.
-: Great.
And Nina and I are here today to talk about diversity,
diversity, equity, and inclusion.
And we are not here because we have all the answers.
In fact, we are here because we are asking the question:
how do we improve diversity, equity and inclusion
both at our institution,
and more broadly in higher ed. IT?
And the wonderful thing about higher ed.
IT, in particular,
my experience is that we collaborate really well,
and we help each other find the way.
And so that's what we're really hoping will happen today.
We will share some of our experience and journey,
and then we will do a little breakout activity.
So hang on, I know this is,
there,
you know, from a
a session perspective, it's, you know, going into a room
with people you don't know can be a little uncomfortable.
But that's actually sort of the the point,
is that diversity, equity,
and inclusion to really do the work required
for that requires us to be uncomfortable.
So we're going to try that out,
and I think those are where the relationships
and the great conversations happen.
So, so we will, we will get to that in a little bit,
but first a little context here,
and I like to
cite this EDUCAUSE Workforce Study,
where,
it's,
you know, it just made it really clear to me
the challenges we face
in IT and higher ed, in particular, around diversity, equity
and inclusion.
And diversity in particular,
and there are so many aspects of diversity,
so we'll just focus on a couple here.
But that disabilities, I was actually surprised
by the number of people who identified with disabilities.
And so that causes me to think, how do we,
how do we make an inclusive environment for everyone?
And also when we look at ethnicity, we are,
we are not a very diverse group overall.
And, and how do we work on that?
And how do we improve that,
and have people feel included?
And, for groups that are-
Organizations that are working
on diversity, equity and inclusion,
there are so many good frameworks out there,
and I'm just a big fan of frameworks in general.
I love a framework
(laughing)
and, and they're easy to find.
I mean, you know, a lot of universities have them published
on their websites and have focused efforts around them.
And the common thing about them is there's a sense
of movement, and progress, and forward motion,
and climbing up a ladder and, you know,
and, you know,
up and up and, and forward.
And
that,
that is really good
for a framework to be that way,
but it actually is not how it always feels to work
on diversity, equity and inclusion.
And in fact, it causes me to think of this change curve
which is one of my favorite things to use when
we're talking about system implementations.
That it's, it's really, it's not,
it's not easy.
And it's in fact very hard and the work of change management
and the work of diversity and inclusion is not
going to be all rosy and wonderful all the time.
But it's important to realize that and to think about,
you know, sort of those stages of
how we progress through that.
And so I like to think about this, this change curve of,
you know, when we start out on something
we feel excited and gung ho and then, you know, we get
to a point where we realize this is harder than we thought
and then frustration sets in and we can actually get
to the point of being depressed and feeling this, you know
valley of despair concept
where we have fear, we have anger, we have resistance.
People come out of the woodwork that we didn't know,
and doubts are planted.
And it's really, it's hard to keep up
that energy to keep going.
And in fact, with,
I'm noticing, with the diversity, equity,
inclusion efforts, that it's
you know, there's even little peaks in this valley
of despair where we're, you know, we're making progress
and then, you know, maybe we have a setback.
But I think ultimately the hope is, and our, and you know
what I think we need to believe is
that if we keep working this
then our outcomes are going to be so much better
than they ever were before.
So that's why I like to use this,
this change curve to start orient the conversation today.
And so now I will hand it over to Nina who will take us
through a little bit of her journey at Notre Dame.
-: Yeah, so thank you, Tracy.
So we did see the need
for a change and we're like,
where should we start?
So we started
some of the groundwork that set our foundation is
that we started with a small DNI task force within IT.
And then we started asking people,
and people just volunteer to share some
of their stories and experiences
of things that they had witnessed or been part of
to understand their journey,
and what they went through.
Another thing that we thought we would do is voluntarily
ask our staff to share a little bit about themselves.
When we were talking about, amongst ourselves, we were like
how much do we know about our, our own internal staff?
And that way was understanding their background,
their experiences,
and we highlighted their stories in our weekly newsletter.
We also had coffee breaks
focused on different discussions, and ideas, and themes.
And we emphasized the ground rules for participants.
It wasn't always easy, but we said
it's okay just to listen.
And this is something difficult and hard,
but we appreciate everybody's feedback
and being part of those discussions.
Next slide.
Okay.
As we,
as, as our journey was down the curve,
as Tracy talked about,
we had highlights and peaks and valleys in our curve.
We,
we did a survey
and survey was really about what is,
I think diversity is easier to measure,
but what does it mean to be an inclusive workplace to you?
And just talked about that with our staff.
So it was an anonymous survey,
people could just submit ideas,
and just really start uncovering this concept.
We started introducing the concept of the
hiring process changes in our managers meeting.
And that was met with some resistance actually,
which we were surprised by our managers.
Some people were like for it,
some people didn't understand
why we needed the change.
They thought everything that we're doing is fine.
So it was really uncovering some microaggressions
in some cases, macroaggressions, in terms
of things that we thought everybody saw the need
for this change, but they were reluctant to do so.
So then based on some of the, that, we took a step back,
and started working with,
you know, with our teams in terms of understanding
the reminder of why at every conversation
and discussion of why we're doing this.
Making sure we understood that everybody was
at a different point in this journey.
So I think why and
what we're focusing on really, really helped.
We ended up doing breakout sessions
and smaller group conversations that were very insightful
both at the managers meeting,
and then also at our larger
all hands meeting with the entire IT staff.
And then that helped us to build this bigger taskforce
and have better representation,
and broader representation, across IT.
People just wanted to be part
of this discussion and dialogue.
And I think that helped with HR rolling
out some things with the hiring practices,
in making sure that we're included
in the employee resource groups,
and having catalysts, being a representative
of each of the departments within Notre Dame.
So I'm going to turn it back to Tracy,
and I think we're ready for our small group discussion.
-: Great. So thanks Nina.
And that gives you a sense of what we're hoping to share
with each other in a small group environment of what are,
what have been some of your
peaks and valleys in your journey,
and how can we learn from each other?
So, you know, just a few little logistical things
and then I'll break us up.
We know that, you know, video, it's your choice,
but if you're going to leave your -
We love seeing faces, so that would be wonderful
if you want to turn on video,
but it's completely fine if you don't.
And, but if you could just sort of
either vocalize you're there,
or say I'm going to be participating in chat today,
you know just check in with your group in that way.
And if there could be a sort of a
point person to take notes and facilitate
and make sure everybody has a chance to speak,
that would be great.
We're going to get 15 minutes,
and then these are the two ideas for questions we had:
What's your low point, your moment of despair?
And then on the other hand,
what's something that's just worked really well for you?
And then when we come back
we'll debrief a little bit
so we can have some of that cross group sharing.
Okay.
All right, so I'm going to break us out,
and we'll try to hit groups of five or six.
Well, thanks for, for doing that.
I just really enjoyed my, my breakout room,
and we. there were definitely some mutual sharing
of low points and hurdles,
and, but also some real bright spots.
So just want to open it up for a little while.
What you know, some takeaways, some, some themes,
something that stood out to you in your conversation?
So anybody just feel free to speak up,
or drop it in chat.
Anything goes.
-: I'll share.
My name is Liz Westling,
and kind of a shared theme was that there was a lot
of conversations starting, which was a positive.
We were pleased with that
in a variety of different areas.
However, we were concerned with that,
then the implementation to action,
how to create that change,
now that we have the conversation going,
and we've identified some,
some things that we know need to change.
-: Great. Thank you.
Yeah, that is,
how to move to action is a great theme,
and a really hard thing to do.
-: I can go next for our group if that's okay?
Hi, my name is Ashley,
I'm with Swarthmore College.
Some things that we were,
we had some low moments of despair,
was during times of no money in the budget.
And then there's often mixed messages
within a very complex system.
You know, you have different departments,
there's administration,
there's the diversity
inclusion department itself,
multiple schools or universities,
and, you know
not having everyone on the same page
about what's going on.
So some of that, those messages kind of get mixed up,
and it's hard to figure out best practices.
So, but some, some of the most well-received
practices that we've encountered
have been the start of these conversations,
and the start of the systems being put into place.
So, we've seen it kind of begin right now, which is good.
Some of the other things during these discussions,
the breakout rooms provide that,
that space for a small discussion and conversation.
So you get to see your colleagues, you know,
in a, in a different light.
You get to know them a little bit better,
and it breaks down barriers in that regard.
And so someone also mentioned that they are,
they get to share stories from their students,
who've gone through the program,
which is really insightful for them.
Yeah.
And one thing that someone was conflicted
whether it was despair or, you know,
well received was that the,
that there has been a lot of uptick and award
and recognition around DEI,
and the question was, you know,
are these people doing it for the right reasons, right?
-: Yeah. That's, that's, yeah,
those are just such great points all around.
And I'm definitely familiar with some of the themes
that came up in our conversation too,
in our group that, you know,
there's all this energy and interest in
diversity and hiring practices.
And then, you know, a lot of us are
facing financial constraints that our institutions
and hiring freezes.
And,
what do you do in that?
So, yeah, all amazing points.
Thank you, Ashley.
-: You had in there, I was in the group
with Ashley, and I think they, in the beginning pre-COVID,
they were looking to hire a company, you know,
to help with efforts,
and then management's like, you don't have any money.
So now what do you do?
And so they kind of had to regroup
and,
reassess
and plan,
you know,
with money.
Yeah, so it's easy to despair
in that situation,
but I guess the bright spot
is the extra creativity that has to come
about related to constrain resources.
So.
Great. Who else?
This is great.
-: I'll speak up next for my group.
I think probably the common thing
that all of us talked about was, just, kind of the,
frustration with
how, how much work and effort goes in and how,
how,
unfavorably that compares to,
to what we want the result to be.
It's,
especially since most of us are in academia
things move slow anyway,
and this this is a topic where it seems like there's,
there's extra resistance,
and it's just the pace of changes is really,
really slow.
A couple people also talked about,
you know,
there, there are problems,
and we know about the, that there are problems,
but there isn't always a safe space to report
and deal with those problems.
You know, the are repercussions for,
the person reporting, for instance, is still a problem.
Kind of on our, on the hopeful side,
everyone was able to point out small successes, you know,
educational programs or, or, or small groups
or, or, or
successes and adapting to situations.
And so I guess, celebrate those small victories.
And one, one person in the group had a big victory,
or impending victory, to report their college
will be hiring an Associate Dean for DEI,
and that's, that's a huge step for them.
So a great, great for them and their college.
-: Great. Thank you, Jeff.
I appreciate that.
All great points.
Okay. Who else? This is great.
Okay, I've maxed out on my comfort with awkward silence,
so I'll jump in,
but if anyone thinks of something, jump in.
The, some of the themes I wrote down
from our conversation was that,
you know,
really good to see more transparency
around the data around diversity and inclusion,
and that, I thought that was a great thing to
hear is happening.
I don't know that that's happening across higher ed,
but to know that it can happen,
it's really inspiring.
Another, another big theme that we talked about of one
of the hurdles is the, sort of the leaky retention
when you, maybe your diversity in your hiring is improved,
but then if you have retention and competing, you know,
with companies that are paying a lot more.
Nicer weather if you live in, you know,
the Midwest or other places,
(laughing)
can be a factor.
Just that, you know, that constant work needed,
as Jeff mentioned, the so much effort to, you know,
just achieve those incremental results.
So.
Good. Anything else?
Any other thoughts?
-: Maybe I'll add one more thought here is I know we're
kind of living in the, the George Floyd era moment,
so to speak,
and that's kind of,
propagated people to action in academia,
but a, a lot of people still think, that,
what I call as tokenism, they're token approaches
that have been taken to hire people
in certain, certain positions,
and not enough systemic changes are happening.
So that is, that is, that is, part,
no that's a big concern going down the road is,
are we just going to see tokenisms,
or are we going to see systemic, real systemic change?
Tracy: Right.
Right. Excellent. Thank you so much.
Okay, well, I will, let's keep moving on here.
-: Tracy, I was going to say somebody had asked,
and I think we ran out of time in our breakout session,
but they were saying what are we doing
in our hiring practices to change?
So maybe we can highlight and discuss that as next steps?
Tracy: Yeah.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Okay, so let me,
we went, we did want to have a little call to action.
So I will share my screen again.
I mentioned frameworks and,
you know I love frameworks,
but I do have a favorite,
(laughing)
and this one is timely.
And I do, I will declare my bias
towards the work of this group,
because I am on the group of coordinators for it.
But the inner racism and academia group ARiA
I just found to be a really impactful way to have,
sort of these safe space discussions
across higher ed where maybe you don't,
you don't have that safe space in your own institution,
and it just gives an opportunity to connect
and collaborate across higher ed
and really grow together.
So,
we have a new URL for our website
it's ariajourney.org.
So I encourage you to check that out,
and we'll be communicating.
There was a, this was a whole series
of discussions last year,
and we're going to be starting up again in June,
and it's a five part series,
but you can join any time.
And,
just, you know,
it's sort of, of led within higher ed
on a volunteer basis and for higher ed,
and I just, I think there's, that's a great thing about it.
So more communications coming soon will be on
all the EDUCAUSE Diversity and IT groups,
and other groups we'll,
we'll push that out too.
So, encourage everybody to think about checking that out.
Okay, and then I did,
this is just sort of,
of recognizing our sources from those early sides,
and then thinking about what's next.
I think, you know, we have some ideas at Notre Dame.
I think Nina made, you made an awesome point
about hiring practices.
What else?
What else do we think about what's next?
And I'll stop sharing my screen
so we can see each other better.
Any other call to action,
or plugs for things you're passionate about, or
(laughing)
anything else?
-: Somebody in our group had mentioned
LinkedIn Learning.
You know, it was just, you know,
highlighting different videos
and having discussion around those videos.
Whether it's in a large group,
or breakout sessions.
So I thought that was something that I definitely
want to research and, and do Tracy.
-: John did you want to jump in?
I noticed you unmuted.
John: Yeah, I did.
Thanks Tracy.
We, we had a session.
I do some work with a Midwestern higher education compact,
and we had a session actually on web accessibility
in our annual meeting this year.
And the presenter did,
she was from Kent state,
did an amazing job of really
talking about the economic impact of
under serving communities that are,
that are covered by the ADA.
And one of the things that really struck home to me is that,
and, and thank you by the work,
for your work on ARiA.
I got to participate in that this year.
It is a fabulous program.
Would highly recommend it for anybody that
for anybody that wants to participate,
it's really good.
But one of the things that strikes me
is that we've got lots of audiences in terms of,
sort of, how to move the systemic pieces of the puzzle.
And,
the,
the rationale for doing DEI,
for me is,
a pretty deeply held moral and ethical
obligation that this is simply
the right thing to do.
It's, it's what we need to do societally,
but I also realized that there are a lot
of people around the decision-making table
for whom that argument
does not necessarily resonate.
Right?
And, and I think that's one of the reasons
that we remain stuck or,
or that the the task seems pretty Sisyphean.
And one of the things that the presentation that, that,
that we received at MEK
pointed out to me is
that there are real serious
business and economic drivers
behind the value of diversity initiatives.
And I don't argue that we should do them because of that,
but I do think for some people
that's an argument that resonates differently,
and, and a powerful one and,
and an argument that needs to come
alongside the moral and ethical argument.
Because the reality is not everybody responds to the moral
and ethical argument as, as unfortunate as that may be.
Tracy: Thank you.
Great points.
-: I was just thinking,
I've been reading this book Weapons of Mass Destruction,
(laughing)
and it's,
(laughing)
kind of ties into what we're talking about here.
There's a lot of big data has come in,
often tries to help and oftentimes hurts,
or things where there's a lot of oversights and,
and how people are reviewing and applying
data to different sectors of the population.
And so, anyway, it's an interesting,
it's a good and very educational read
for me to especially get some
concept and more knowledge of how to maybe just make
daily,
little incremental steps towards
improvement, you know, for, for everyone.
-: Great, thank you.
I love a book recommendation too, so that's great.
What else?
-: Well, I'm thinking, you know,
I think it would also be important to,
to,
you know,
insist on universities being more
public institutions again.
You know?
For example, you know, supporting graduate students'
attempt to unionize.
You know,
lowering admission fees,
and these kinds of things.
Also, you know, a lot
of these policy packets that we,
kind of like,
beginning to, to address them
as difficult as it seems
in the current
environment that we find ourselves in.